Re: [TruthTalk] The Beasts of the Field
All Marlin has to do to stop this is deny I have to worship on Saturday to go to be saved and go to heaven. It's that simple. Izzy, if I am rite, and he doesn't deny this, you are responsible for helping him go to hell. I am serious about this. Your kissing up to a works salvation is going back to Catholicism. Glenn, Please produce the email in which Marlin said that. You cant. It doesnt exist. Really, everyone is tired of this. Take a hint and find something else to kvetch about. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Beasts of the Field
Let him deny it. I don't care to produce anything. I also remember him condemning us for observing Christmas, Easter, etc. This man can deny this and I will back off. :-) Glenn, Please produce the email in which Marlin said that. You cant. It doesnt exist. Really, everyone is tired of this. Take a hint and find something else to kvetch about. Izzy DAVEH: Brother Glenn, if you wish to take Izzy's advice, you are welcome to dump on me..I've got broad shoulders and can bear the burden. :-
Re: [TruthTalk] The Beasts of the Field
Just like you didn't know what to say for weeks about Hitler. Silly people can take up for you, but I challenge Izzy to find where you have said Glenn don't have to observe Saturday worship to be saved and go to heaven. I know what to say. I just don't know what to say. :-) Happy Sabbath, Marlin
Re: [TruthTalk] The Beasts of the Field
ROFL This is all very confusing. Can a Mormon be a Judaizer? Can Izzy look at fat cardinals on the Sabbath? Will Glenn ever display his soft side? Someone please ask Elvis! Terry DAVEH: Brother Glenn, if you wish to take Izzy's advice, you are welcome to dump on me..I've got broad shoulders and can bear the burden. :-)
Re: [TruthTalk] Frog legs and homosexuality
Oh, but you are not a Judaizer. ROFL I see why you couldn't continue to answer my questions. You were going to be exposed. Acts 10:15 What's the difference between eating frog legs and engaging in sexual behaviour with your own sex? ANSWER BELOW! NOTHING! Both are abomination. Do you know what Scripture says about that and dwelling in the city where The LAMB is the light? "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie" Revelation 21:27 That is NEW Testament TRUTH! More NEW Testament TRUTH follows ... "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY. ... EVEN SO FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, BEING ALONE." Yaakov 2:10-12,17 SHABBAT SHALOM! Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Frog legs and homosexuality
Glenn again - Oh, but you are not a Judaizer. ROFL I see why you couldn't continue to answer my questions. You were going to be exposed. Acts 10:15 Oh, but you are not a Judaizer. ROFL I see why you couldn't continue to answer my questions. You were going to be exposed. Acts 10:15 Glenn quoting Scripture like satan (YHVH rebuke him -- Jude 8-13!) - Original Message -
Re: [TruthTalk] Frog legs and homosexuality
It does look like you could think for yourself and come up with something original instead of copying me. Glenn again - Oh, but you are not a Judaizer. ROFL I see why you couldn't continue to answer my questions. You were going to be exposed. Acts 10:15 Chris again - Glenn quoting Scripture like satan (YHVH rebuke him -- Jude 8-13!)
Re: [TruthTalk] Sabbath Observance
They pick and choose what they want to obey and what they don't want to obey. What are all of these Sabbath observers doing turning on their computers and typing on their keyboards on the Sabbath? Isn't that doing "work" on the Sabbath? I thought they were supposed to rest instead. Strange folk, those Sabbath observers. Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Hitler a Christian?
All right, DavidM, I guess you didn't read the previous post. Someone even commented on the Greek meaning. Here is the Greek I previously posted. You can't claim to believe in the Greek meaning and believe people who do not follow Christ, a la Hitler, are Christians. You don't believe the Greek meaning of Christian when you claim Hitler was a Christian. Hitler was not a follower of Christ. Hence, Hitler, was not a Christian. This doesn't take miles of words. It is plain and simple. It takes a lot of worldly philosophy to confuse this. Strong's Number: 5546 Xristiano/v Original Word Word Origin Xristiano/v from (5547) Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling Christianos khris-tee-an-os' Parts of Speech TDNT Noun Masculine 9:493,1322 Definition Christian, a follower of Christ Translated Words KJV (3) - Christian, 3; NAS (3) - Christian, 2; Christians, 1; © 2003, Heartlight.org, Inc. 4:16but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. ei de wv Xristianov, mh aisxunesqw, (5744) docazetw de ton qeon en tw| onomati toutw|. No you didn't. I have never seen you write the word for Christian in Greek even one time. Not once. If you know or anybody else know it to be otherwise, please post it.
Re: [TruthTalk] Yo, Gary ...
Are you anti-American? You are guoting sources with an agenda. \o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Joyous Sabbath Greetings again in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! [EMAIL PROTECTED] cites source quotes from books by recognized German/Euro history scholars and pursue it with diligence (to analyze historical sources) and integrity in close proximity to one another. Yet recognized German/Euro history scholars are closer to polar opposites than they are to close proximity when it comes to integrity (e.g., refuse to tolerate anything unverified as truth) and someone who willingly handles biases and critiques openly. 'World Without Cancer' is one of my most cherished books. This vast tome is divided into two portions. The first is 'The Science of Cancer Therapy'. The second is 'The Politics of Cancer Therapy'. The second is far and away the bigger, better AND best of the two portions. Thorough, painstaking detail charts TRUTH. Hitler was a PUPPET and PAWN of the massive, international I.G. Farben petrochemical/pharmaceutical/banking cartel and its American partners Chevron, Ford and DuPont. What Hitler and the Nazis were and did was only by way of I.G. Farben ... period and exclamation pointS ad infinitum. Every time you buy Bayer aspirin you are supporting the company responsible for the atrocities of Nazi Germany. Hitler was (and still is) a fall guy. Was Hitler wicked? Absolutely ... but he was a cub scout in comparison to the German AND American industrialists who PLACED and MAINTAINED him in power. That's The TRUTH and nothing but The TRUTH! Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Hitler a Christian?
DavidM, you're always going to have a problem with communication when you refuse to use the word "Christian" in the Biblical sense. You cannot expect people to believe you when you cannot produce proof. That is not personal, but you would be the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Just like I cannot believe you when you condemn the NIV translation because it exposes and shows false your perfection doctrine. The statement here is original with me, based upon my own studies, so a footnote is not appropriate. We already discussed this before and I don't have the time to write a book and reproduce a lot of sources for you right now on this subject. They evidently didn't impress you when I gave them to you last year, so I doubt that my taking time to give them to you again would help now. Anyone who takes the time to read "Mein Kampf" would see quite readily that Adolf Hitler was a Christian who professed faith in Jesus Christ, spoke highly of the Christian religion, and considered the Christian religion more important than the state. Hitler showed knowledge of the Scriptures, regularly quoting the Bible to justify his position. Hitler's father wanted Adolf to go into the ministry, and Hitler at one time had planned to do so, but his love for art (painting) and then the state took him along a different path. Hitler believed and openly confessed that he was doing God's will. Many Christian sects, especially the Roman Catholics and the Lutherans, supported him with rallies, money, speeches, and in numerous other ways. The only Christian sect outwardly against him that I know of was the Confessional Church of which Deitrich Boenhoeffer was a part. Last year I shared the following link with you: http://www.freethought-web.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html The link is from a non-religious source with an anti-Christian bias, but the pictures themselves should help show you that Hitler was not the atheistic, anti-Christian dictator that many Christians today try to paint him out to be. It is human nature to change history after the fact, to view it in a different way than what was happening at the time. Everybody, Christians and non-Christians alike, want to distance themselves from Adolf Hitler today, and so a picture is painted of him by the Christians as someone who was not a Christian, and a picture is painted of him by the non-Christians was someone who definitely was Christian. If you want the truth, you will have to read Adolf Hitler's own writings and judge for yourself. Also read what the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant sects were doing when Hitler was rising to power. Most of them supported him and only distanced themselves from him later. You might consider some of the following quotes, most of which I'm sure that I shared already with you last year: "Verily a man cannot serve two masters. And I consider the foundation or destruction of a religion far greater than the foundation or destruction of a state, let alone a party." -Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." ( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland, Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. ) - "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." (Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler. 1971. Translated by Ralph Manheim, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston) -
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Hitler a Christian?
This is so stupid. A lot of people claim to be Christians when they are not. Hitler was not a Christian. He was a liar. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." ( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland, Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )
Re: [TruthTalk] Jewish Support of Hitler?
Don't worry. Your so called "proof" is of spurious origin. Just because someone can put up a link doesn't mean anything on the internet. http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1637 -- this ain't it, but this interesting. Don't listen, Glenn. You won't like it. Chris... you WILL like this because of the connections with I. G. Farben I can't find the reference since I really have no idea which program you listed to or when. Therefore, I will give you the http://www.kpfk.org web link. Look in the LEFT FRAME. Under PROGRAMS you will find ARCHIVES. Perhaps you will have better progress than I. - Original Message - From: Marlin Halverson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 06 April, 2003 18:12 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jewish Support of Hitler? No, I was wondering if you or somebody else knew of this information and its source. --Marlin - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jewish Support of Hitler? Do you have this information still, or are you asking rhetorically if we've heard it. If you have this information or if you know how to retrieve it, I would LOVE very much to have it. -- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] Do I have to observe Saturday worship in order to be right wi...
1. I don't take TT seriously enough to save anything said on it. I use it for a little entertainment. However, I stand by what I said about Marlin. I will not give Marlin enough of my time to prove anything he said. Believe or not believe what I said, I don't care. Facts are facts. 2. From your refusal to say yes or no about Saturday worship leaves me to believe you might be a Judaizer. If you are, and you die in that condition, you are going straight to hell and will not pass go and will not collect $200.00. If you are not a Judaizer, I thank God. 3. Now, let me ask you again. I do NOT believe the New Testament teaches Saturday worship as a requirement for Christians today. I believe Saturday is a good day to wash the car, sleep in, go to the mall, mow the grass, and take in a New York Yankee ballgame. Yes, or no, am I going to heaven if I die in my present condition of "no requirement of Saturday worship" belief? 3. Concerning salvation, John 1:12. If I could led one million Irag people to Christ today, it would not be enough works to get me saved or keep me saved. First of all, by the witness of two or three, truth is established. I have heard you say a couple of times that Marlin compared present day Christians to Hitler. Then for weeks refused to condemn Hitler. Now, it's my belief that the two or three witness must be different mouths (which means your two posts do not qualify as two witnesses... only one) and I haven't heard Marlin admit to this; nor have I heard anyone back your claim. Could you go back through your archives and publish his post for me so I can see it in context? Now, my archives only go back so far, and my "hacking" has revealed two posts regarding Hitler, and the www.mail-archive.com thing makes it impossible to find information. One post I got was a joke where the reader had to choose between three leaders and the one that sounded the best was Hitler. Then, I discovered this excerpt looped with it in regards to Hitler: Hitler was a degenerate, reportedly a coprophile. Even then, he may have been better than FDR who laid the biggest part of the foundation for the degradation of this nation. Your speedy reply to my quandary would be most appreciated. Secondly, we have a problem with semantics again. My use of terms is different than yours. I would like to define a few... Salvation -- call upon the name of Adonai Yeshua ha Mashiach and you shall be saved. Eternal Life -- Belief in Messiah Yeshua and you will not perish but attain Eternal Life. Walking with YHVH -- Walk before me and be perfect, you shall keep the commandments of YHVH Eloheinu to walk in His ways and to fear Him, we are His workmanship created in Messiah Yeshua unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them. Righteousness -- Belief is accredited to your account as righteousness; it shall be our righteousness if we observe to do all these commandments before YHVH Eloheinu as he has commanded us. By defining the terms, the answer is clear: If I want to please YHVH, I will obey Him. If I want to be displeasing to YHVH, I will disobey Him. If I want Eternal Life, I will believe on Yeshua/Jesus. If I want to be saved, I will call upon YESHUA, YHVH. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 03 April, 2003 23:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Glenn. Hello, Glenn? So glad you are clearing things up. However, I understand Marlin to say if we don't observe Saturday worship we are not going to heaven or we are not in the will of God. Marlin is sneaky. He compared present day Christians to Hitler. Then for weeks refused to condemn Hitler. Now, for you. Do I have to observe Saturday worship in order to be right with God? Yes, or no, please. If you say this, this is putting me back under the law. That is a Judaizer.
Re: [TruthTalk]
There is a big difference in personally turning the other cheek and our government going to war. Two totally different discussions. And all this time I thought Christians loved and prayed for their enemy. Silly Me! Terry I wouldnt mind seeing a stray missle hit Arafat on the head. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk]
Agreed. We don't know if the Prez worships Free Masonry or is just a member. In fact, I don't even know if he is even a member. I do know I have never met a policeman in VA who is not in Masonry. I do know I don't think every VA State policeman who is a Mason is going to hell simply because they are a member of Free Masonry. What about the Prez swearing allegiance to the US constitution? I don't think you addressed this "problem" with the Prez? Does he have a divided allegiance between the US Constitution and Christ in your opinion? I don't know if he is a Free Mason or not, but if he is, that doesn't mean he has sworn allegiance to Masonry above Jesus Christ === I looked up the word allegiance one time. The definition was "Undivided loyalty". If that definition is correct, you cannot have allegiance to more than one master. If Jesus is number one, there is no number two. Worship one or the other. Terry
[TruthTalk] Blair Says U.S. Has No Plans to Attack Syria, Iran
Reuters Friday, April 4, 2003; 11:11 AM LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Friday the United States had absolutely no plans to attack Syria and Iran, which have been warned by Washington over their alleged involvement in Iraq. In an interview with the Arabic service of BBC World Service Radio, Blair also said it was every bit as important to make progress in resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as it was to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Last week, Washington accused Syria of allowing shipments of military equipment to cross the border into Iraq in defiance of a U.S. warning. It also said it was concerned by the presence inside Iraq of hundreds of Iraqi Shiite Muslim forces, trained and financed by the Iranians. The warnings sparked fears the U.S.-led war in Iraq might spread to other countries in the Middle East, but Blair said those fears were unfounded. "There is no question of 'who next?' We are in Iraq for a particular reason," Blair said. "This is not a war against Iraq, it is a war against Saddam. "They (the Americans) have got absolutely no plans to attack those two countries. What they were saying is that it is important that neither country assist those forces loyal to Saddam." He told people to stop "looking for conspiracy theories -- Iraq one day and a whole series of countries the next." Asked if he had enough influence in Washington to curb any move to attack Syria and Iran, Blair -- Washington's closest ally in its self-declared war on terror -- repeated his assurance to the Arab world. "I know of absolutely no plan to do that," he said. "There are concerns about support for terrorism in certain of these countries, that is true. But I have always thought we can try and deal with these issues in a different way." Blair has made strenuous efforts to develop ties with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, believing he is a crucial figure if the Middle East peace process is to be revived. Blair has visited Damascus and hosted Assad in London in an attempt to build bridges while Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has visited Tehran three times. The prime minister said the Iraqi war was inextricably linked with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "I think what we need to do is look at this in two dimensions," he said. "The first is the issue of Iraq. ... The second dimension however is to bring greater stability to the Middle East. "My own judgment is that the single most important thing we can do is to bring some hope to the situation between Israel and Palestine. "I believe it is every bit as important that we make progress on that as we get rid of Saddam."
Re: [TruthTalk]
Perry, are you a member of the John Birch Society? Terry, and other TTRs, I spent about three years studying the concept of the New World Order in late 1980's and the early 1990's.
Re: [TruthTalk]
No, but I am familiar with them. One of my seminary friend's wife was the President's personal secretary. That was a long time ago. I do know they are lifetime members. No, I am not, but I have read many of their publications? Obviously you have, too. Are you a member?
Re: [TruthTalk]
There is a basic foundation problem here. It seems you are assuming a person cannot be a Christian and a Mason at the same time. You have not responded to my question about the Prez double loyalty by swearing to abide by the US Constitution? I would appreciate your point of view on this. Now to get to the bottom line. 1. I don't have any use for the Masons. (Mormons get a lot of their exercises from them which is another story.) 2. I believe a person can be a Christian and belong to the Masons at the same time. I personally could not do so, but I do not judge others who do. Therefore, it makes no difference to me if the Prez is a Mason or not. I don't care. As I said, I have personally spent some time with him and heard his heart about taking Christ to the whole world. Izzy: G.W. was sworn in on a Masonic Bible, not the one that you read. . You have a computer. You can choose to use it, or you can choose to live in your own little world where people are just what they seem to be. It won't make much difference either way. Our opinion is not that important. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk]
How about saved and death in quick order. LOL Make up your mind. Do you want him saved or want him dead? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk]
I understand your point of view. However, please clarify if 1. You think one can be a Christian and a Mason at the same time? 2. Do you think a person can swear allegiance (as an American soldier) and be a Christian at the same time? 3. A person can swear allegiance to the US Constitution and be a Christian at the same time. I use the word "Christian" not as the world and DavidM uses it but as the Bible uses the term. A Christian is one that belongs to Christ. Are you saying this would be divided loyalties? My personal decision is to follow Christ. Because He desires it, I will be a good citizen. I was once patriotic and once served my country, but I will not swear allegiance to any country that legalizes the murder of innocent unborn children. As for the president and the policemen, they have bowed to a worshipful master if they are masons, and like alcoholics anon, they worship a generic God. When he renounces his membership, I may believe him, but not until then. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk]
G is the ONLY liberal politically and conservative Christian I have ever met. LOL According to g. J
Re: [TruthTalk] Blair Says U.S. Has No Plans to Attack Syria, Iran
I was kind of hoping Blain is wrong. This is good news. Let's hope Tony is right. Terry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Blair Says U.S. Has No Plans to Attack Syria, Iran Reuters Friday, April 4, 2003; 11:11 AM LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Friday the United States had absolutely no plans to attack Syria and Iran, which have been warned by Washington over their alleged involvement in Iraq. In an interview with the Arabic service of BBC World Service Radio, Blair also said it was every bit as important to make progress in resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as it was to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Last week, Washington
Re: [TruthTalk]
Doesn't matter. The time here in America is not counted by sundown to sundown. You are playing with fire. After you get there you need a big time Saturday worship in order to remain saved. Maybe even catch a couple of circumcision parties. :-) Personally I am going to celebrate this Saturday by buying some chocolate Easter eggs. :-) We will be there before sundown. J Neener, neener! Iz
Re: [TruthTalk] Mercy Mercy
Ok, here is my point. You condemn me for "slinging insults" and you come back and sling insults at me. You are condemned by the Bible. "With what judgment ye judge ye shall be judged". Now I still don't understand your answer to my question. Since my ears and eyes are closed yell it. Yes, or no. What is it? Did you ever answer the question that I have to observe Saturday worship to belong to Christ? Yes I did. Too bad you can't open your eyes to see instead of slinging insults. At least if these were Godly admonitions I could be edifying and I could grow. Your posts do nothing to me. I'm not even frustrated by them. However, let me answer your underlined question YET AGAIN, but let me say it another way. I am not your judge. YHVH is your judge. Ask him and may your conscience be clear... if you have one. If you think having an Easter Egg Hunt party is good Christian fun so be it. If you think Shabbat is a good time to go shopping, so be it. If you think adhering to the Torah is sin, so be it. What you think has no merit in reality. You will continue to do things that seem right in your own eyes, and YHVH will do with you as he sees fit. I don't understand what you are saying below. But you are right on one point. The Bible does not condemn Sunday; nor does it condemn Tuesday. Christmas and Easter, however, you are DEAD wrong. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 04 April, 2003 15:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mercy Mercy With all due respect, it doesn't matter what you think. That's not intended to be an attack on you. I know for sure for certain that I am saved forever. God has mercy on my soul as I am saved by grace through faith without Saturday worship. I am not under the law. That's what the Bible says. I have a higher standard than Saturday worship. I do not make up new sins that are not in the Bible. The Bible does not condemn Sunday, Christmas or Easter, or Tuesday. Here is my guess. You are not a soul winner. When was the last time you led someone to faith in Jesus Christ. No answer needed. The Bible also talks about making people twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. My heros are soulwinners. I know one man who has baptized at least one person for every day he has been alive. He is over 70 years of age. He could never win another person to Christ and live to be 300 and this would still be true. Did you ever answer the question that I have to observe Saturday worshp to belong to Christ? Personally I am going to celebrate this Saturday by buying some chocolate Easter eggs. :-) And may God have mercy on YOUR soul!! I won't let my children celebrate the Spring fraternity rites. I don't like the idea of them "playing sperm" as they hunt for the eggs. Gross!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Glenn. Hello, Glenn?
Marlin, you refused for weeks to condemn Hitler. You compared Christians and Hitler. Hitler was not a Christian as he did not belong to Christ. OK, here is your chance to clear things up. I hope you don't take weeks to answer. :-) I reject Saturday worship as a requirement in order to belong to Christ. Do you, Marlin, believe I am not going to heaven if I die rejecting Saturday worship? NOW IF YOU DON'T ANSWER I WILL ASSUME YOU BELIEVE I AM GOING TO HELL. When?
[TruthTalk] Check out Our President
Click here: Our President
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
It's OK for Jesus, but it's not OK for Glenn. Gary, because you asked, ala El Greco: http://home.attbi.com/~cpl2602/jc.jpg
Re: [TruthTalk] I wonder ...
I am with Jesus on this one. You can be with Moses. ... does Glenn ever get anything right?
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
Sure, he took a whip and turned over the tables. That's pretty gently all right. Jesus was much more gentle and diplomatic about it. J Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
A nursing mother is not discrete in other countries. I have done missionary work in other countries and a nursing mother doesn't get a second look.unless it's a dirty ole man. Look again, Izzy. No insult was intended. A nursing mother is discreet as I'm sure you were... -- slade
Re: [TruthTalk]
I don't think you can reduce President Bush's personal commitment to Christ to Free Masonry. I don't know if he is a Free Mason or not, but if he is, that doesn't mean he has sworn allegiance to Masonry above Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean Masonry is a master to him. Now I am not defending Masonry. That's where the Mormons get a lot of their practices. I know some Masons who are nominal Masons just like there are nominal Christians. Their Masons in name only just like there are Christians in name only. Neither are really who they claim to be. This serving two masters is not that cut and dried. Surely you don't think that verse is referring to Free Masonry. President Bush sworn allegiance to the constitution of the United States. I don't think that makes him serving the two masters of United States and Jesus Christ. Gore is an idiot. That does not make Bush above suspicion. Simply the lesser of two evils. Evidently you disagree with Jesus about being able to serve two masters? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk]
I don't go by my feelings, Terry. I go by the Bible. When I go by my feelings I am wrong almost every time. I lose my perfection that way. LOL Seriously, my prayers are with your family member in the current war. You are free to believe whatever makes you feel good. Terry I don't think you can reduce President Bush's personal commitment to Christ to Free Masonry. I don't know if he is a Free Mason or not, but if he is, that doesn't mean he has sworn allegiance to Masonry above Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean Masonry is a master to him. Now I am not defending Masonry. That's where the Mormons get a lot of their practices. I know some Masons who are nominal Masons just like there are nominal Christians. Their Masons in name only just like there are Christians in name only. Neither are really who they claim to be. This serving two masters is not that cut and dried. Surely you don't think that verse is referring to Free Masonry. President Bush sworn allegiance to the constitution of the United States. I don't think that makes him serving the two masters of United States and Jesus Christ. Gore is an idiot. That does not make Bush above suspicion. Simply the lesser of two evils. Evidently you disagree with Jesus about being able to serve two masters? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
David, again you are not being honest here. Here alone is proof you are not perfect. I don't know of any Christian on this earth that teaches the doctrine that not putting enough sugar in your tea is a sin that will send you to hell. David, David, you are not coming clean. I am pointing out your sin here. A more proper analogy would be dropping your car keys, over-cooking or under-cooking the meal, putting not quite enough sugar in your ice tea, not knowing the correct answer to a question, etc. Some people want to make these things sins that damn us to hell for all eternity.
Re: [TruthTalk] Glenn. Hello, Glenn?
David, your question is disingenuous. Moses lived under the law and Jesus lived under the law UNTIL his death, burial, and resurrection. The Bible says we are not under the law now. Judaizers are trying to teach Christians must go back under the Mosaic law in order to go to heaven. Glenn wrote: I am with Jesus on this one. You can be with Moses. Glenn, are Jesus and Moses on opposite sides? When did this happen? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
Just for clarification. I was told by a policeman that is is against the law for an ambulance to speed or run a red light. They are required to follow the same laws as anyone else. Fourth, understand that there are exceptions to speeding laws. If you were bringing someone to the hospital in an emergency, and a policeman pulled you over, he would not write you a speeding ticket. He would give you a police escort and help you speed safely to the hospital.
[TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
This sounds great. Click here: ServantEvangelism.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
What you posted below is truth from God. Maybe God is trying to tell you something. People give you Bible but you have previously built into your mind a rejection and new invention of meaning of the truth you posted and rejected from God. This reminds me of quoting Bible to homosexuals. You can quote many of them all the Bible verses you want, but they have already heard those same Bible verses AND have previously built into their minds a rejection and new invention of meaning of those verses against homosexuality. Your mind is made up so there is no need to discuss this with you. "... shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid" (Romans 6:15). I got tore into by someone on my Torah Commentary LISTSERV. The same old stuff... The Law's been done away with, it's been nailed to the cross! All I have to do is love God and love my neighbor! Haven't you read in Galatians You foolish Galatians... because they again went into bondage to the hard taskmaster? Jesus fulfilled the law and Jesus lives in me... so I am perfect in His Sight! Wish you would know the freedom of just loving Jesus and not to have to deal with all the old laws! They [the commandments] were to prove that we needed Jesus because if we could become perfect without Jesus then He came and died in vain! I am free from the law, why are you sending these messages! What do you do with a son or daughter who does not mind You take them to the elders and they take him outside of the city and stone him, right? According to the Old Testament! You think you go to prison today if you do that, and get the death penalty? You betcha! Are you saying you don't care, but you obey the Old Testament and do it anyway? I am free from the curse of the law! Jesus paid the price for all my transgressions! Whom the Son has set free is free indeed! If the Holy Spirit tells you to live in a home with naked walls and dull looking furniture whatever, by all means do it. Noah built a boat and the prophets did weird things, so I would never say don't do what God or the Holy Spirit tells you to do. But do not lay it on the shoulders of the people! That is not Gospel! There is all the talk and "revelation " about Christmas... everything is a sin. Hanukkah is not in the bible either ***Slade adds: which it is*** but do people make a big deal over it, betcha! What about the law being nailed to the tree? Let no man judge me what I eat, what I drink, what feasts I keep! Where is the grace? Are you making offerings and sacrifices because that is all in the Old Testament also? Can we put color in our clothes, like rainbow? There were anointed spirit-led carpenters and seamstresses, God choose them to make the tabernacle in the wilderness... He loves beauty. I am saddened that we have to waste time with all this nonsense, could be out there blessing people with the LOVE!
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
I "pick on you" because you claim perfection without actually claiming perfection. I don't see where the Apostle John claimed to be perfect, you do so claim. There is a vast difference in my mind in "continuing in sin" and committing a single sin in a moment of weakness. The Greek makes a difference. Sometimes we unintentionally proof text the verses we want to use to make a point and ignore the others. It's like one person said, no matter what verse they give, one can explain what it doesn't mean or explain away the plain common sense meaning. I also think you have lowered the sin standard in order to be perfect. When in actuality you hate sin and are trying to fight hypocrites and wordiness in the church. God knows we need to fight hypocrites and worldliness in the church. I understand that. God knows we need to fight the doctrine that it is OK to sin. It is never OK to sin. Sin breaks God's heart. God hates sin so much He sent His only Son to die on the cross to save us from our sin. God also knows we need to fight the doctrine of easy believism. If there are no works, there is no assurance of salvation. The Bible says that God would that we were hot or cold. So then because we are neither hot or cold, He will spit us out of His mouth. Our churches are full of lukewarm people who cause God to vomit. God knows you are not lukewarm. Praise the Lord. I'm sorry you feel I am picking on you. But it does seem to me you are not coming clean. For example, you don't have to admit you have exceeded the speed limit. All drivers have exceeded the speed limit. To me this was a mind game. Your IQ is much higher than most people and it seems to me you use your IQ to argue your perfection doctrine instead of coming clean. It seems to me you are playing "intelligent" games with words. I think you are an outstanding Christian, but I don't see perfection. Now, I don't think any less of you for it. I think you are a man of God. You say you are a prophet, I have no reason to doubt it. I respect you and my disagreement over the perfection doctrine is not intended to be a personal attack, but I am trying to point out imperfection. If I am wrong, and you are as holy and perfect as God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, then forget what I say. Just write me off as not intelligent enough or spiritual enough to understand. :-) I see myself as a sinner (not currently continuing in sin) saved by faith through grace. I don't think there is any sin on earth that has ever been committed that I could also commit if given certain circumstances and timing. In my flesh dwelleth no good thing. The only good in me, is the Holy Spirit dwelling in me. As the Bible says there is a constant war between the flesh and the spirit. I'm sure you remember the Bible that says, what I don't want to do I do. What I want to do I don't do. Oh wretched man that I am. My apologies to you for offending you. David Miller wrote: They don't care that God's Word says that those who are born of God cannot sin. Glenn wrote: This verse says "continue in sin". You know it but you explain it away. I was talking about 1 John 5:18. You know very well that it does NOT say "continue in sin," but you explain it away by pointing out how another verse in the third chapter does say "continue in sin." Glenn - I don't explain it away. I explain it by letting the Bible explain it. The Bible is the best interpretation of itself. Nevertheless, I don't have a problem with you saying that Christians do not continue in sin or do not continue to sin. I don't see the difference between saying that and saying that those born of God do not sin. I don't think the apostle John saw much difference either because he said it both ways in the same book. So why do you pick on me and not pick on the apostle John for being imperfect? What good does it do for you or for me to keep berating me for being imperfect? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
David, this is where you are being imperfect. You are not coming clean. Of course, you have slipped over the speed limit. You are word playing here. Please, David, remove your blinders. Your preaching on campus has blinded you. Here's the real truth. While claiming to be against sin you have lowered the standard for sin. You are actually doing the opposite of what you think. By your lowered sin standards I am perfect. Biblically speaking I am not perfect. Hey Terry. Why have you tried and convicted me? I never admitted to slipping over the speed limit before, and I haven't seen any evidence from you that I have! :-) I thought we were talking about those who might have done so, not about me. :-)
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
Again you are not coming clean. David, you have convinced me your perfect doctrine is wrong by your participation on TT. Over and over I have see you a man of God but a man of God FAR FAR from perfect. This verse says "continue in sin". You know it but you explain it away. You're sincerely blinded. They don't care that God's Word says that those who are born of God cannot sin.
[TruthTalk] Definition of Prophet?
Slade, I sent your description of a prophet to a prophet and here is what he said about it. I have his permission to forward this to TT. Since I know this prophet a little, I would think your description must have been OK more or less. He wouldn't hesitate to let us all have it. LOL - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: Fwd: [TruthTalk] Definition of "Prophet?" What do you think of this description, Martin? Martin: This person seems to have a "textbook" knowledge of prophets, and seems to me to not have been around many true prophets. They wrote: It's been my experience that those who are "prophets" have a tendency to be unaware of their gift (or extremely humble). This is her experience. Most prophets that I know, God makes that well aware of their call into this office, and begins that training through the "college of hard knocks". This person has never read the Bible concerning the prophets of old. Were they walking around very quiet like "church mice", very humble? They were men and women of intestinal fortitude (guts) who knew that if they didn't developed thick skin and their authoritative leadership skills, NO ONE would listen to them. They were humble, yet POWERFUL. They quietly or privately give a word or passage here and there that perfectly fits a person's need (for comfort or correction) at that time. Prophets work on individual and corporate levels. Our call is to the "church." The Lord sets the "tone" of how He wants the Word given. Sometimes it may be quiet, while others times He may want it given in a raised voice. Prophets are people that love God and His Church. When we see people drifting off into sin, we jump up and sound the alarm to them or the church, regardless of how the person or the church wants to receive it. When the word is for correction, it tends to be ill-received and the prophet is called names, ridiculed, or sternly rebuked... and the "prophet" has no idea why. Only a very immature prophet would give and Word and "not know why" they were being rejected. All true mature prophets give their Word from the Lord with the full knowledge that most people DO NOT want anyone to tell them what to do, even God. We "expect" it and us to be rejected. Those who like to display their "prophetic gift" like a peacock are compelled by their flesh and are not prophets at all. YHVH has used them in spite of themselves. Would I be so bold as to say these self-proclaimed prophets are false prophets? Again, true prophets can get over into pride and still function accurately in the prophetic. Just because they act prideful, does not mean that they are the "real deal." ---BeginMessage--- Glenn: This person seem to have a "textbook" knowledge of prophets, and seems to me to not have been around many trueprophets. They wrote: It's been my experience that those who are "prophets" have a tendency to be unaware of their gift (or extremely humble). This is her experience. Most prophets that I know, God makes that well aware of their call into this office, and begins that training through the "college of hard knocks". This person has never read the Bible concerning the prophets of old. Were they walking around very quiet like "church mice", very humble? They were men and women of intestinal fortitude (guts) who knew that if they didn't developed thick skin and their authoritative leadership skills, NO ONE would listen to them. They were humble, yet POWERFUL. They quietly or privately give a word or passage here and there that perfectly fits a person's need (for comfort or correction) at that time. Prophets work on individual and corporate levels. Our call is to the "church." The Lord sets the "tone" of how He wants the Word given. Sometimes it may be quiet, while others times He may want it given in a raised voice. Prophets are people that love God and His Church. When we see people drifting off into sin, we jump up and sound the alarm to them or the church, regardless of how the person or the church wants to receive it. When the word is for correction, it tends to be ill-received and the prophet is called names, ridiculed, or sternly rebuked... and the "prophet" has no idea why. Only a very immature prophet would give and Word and "not know why" they were being rejected. All true mature prophets give their Word from the Lord with the full knowledge that most people DO NOT want anyone to tell them what to do, even God. We "expect" it and us to be rejected. Those who like to display their "prophetic gift" like a peacock are compelled by their flesh and are not prophets at all. YHVH has used them in spite of themselves. Would I be so bold as to say these self-proclaimed prophets are false prophets? Again, true prophets can get over intopride and still function accurately in the prophetic. Just because they act prideful, does not mean that
Re: [TruthTalk] Definition of Prophet?
I wouldn't take it as in insult. If you know the prophet, he was really nice to your prophet post. I wouldn't have sent it to you, if I thought you would be insulted. Sorry. Martin Said: This person has never read the Bible concerning the prophets of old. This is the first time I've been insulted in this manner. Usually, I have people like Glenn insult me and tell me I've twisted Scripture... but they never say I haven't read Scripture. Interesting. Send my regards to the prophet and tell him "Thank you." -- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] Post Bible Revelation
I said YOU are cool. I differentiate between you and your beliefs. :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're cool, my friend. Really cool. :-) ROTFLOL...What the heck is that all about, Glenn? Why'd you say that?!?!?! A few months ago you were thoroughly thrashing my beliefs!
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: I have never in my life seen a person misuse the Bible th...
Marlin, if I send you something private, you should know better than to send it to TT, a public forum. I didn't want to start a fight on TT about your stupidity about Hitler, your Satanic use of the Bible, and plain old common sense. By sending my private email to TT you have shown more of Satan's tactics that you are involved in. You and Satan are troublemakers. That's why you can't get alone in a church with others. Subj:[TruthTalk] Fw: I have never in my life seen a person misuse the Bible the way you do. Date:3/27/2003 8:19:33 AM Eastern Standard Time From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent from the Internet ? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:22 PM Subject: I have never in my life seen a person misuse the Bible the way you do. You and Satan guote the Bible alike. I am not sure you have ever used a Bible verse correctly. You proof-text everything from you divisive, everyone's going to hell but you, point of view. Just to print a verse OUT OF CONTEXT, IS PROOF TEXTING. THIS IS A GREAT GREAT SIN.
[TruthTalk] Check this out-Resources for Pastors and Ministry leaders
I don't know much about this, but it looks interesting. Maybe they are trying to build a huge email list. I don't know. It might be worth a try. Dear Pastor, teacher or ministry leader, My name is Darrell D. Neet I work for Multnomah Publishers, we are a Christian publishing company solely owned an operated by Christians. A friend of yours has asked that we inform you of our Free Pastoral Resources program. Multnomah Publishers will occasionally make available (to ministry leaders) some its valuable digital resources. These resources are for use on your PC or Windows based PDA. These are tools designed to help you and your assistants in your ministry efforts. URL to sign up for this program: http://www.mltintranet.com/surveys/pastores/ After you sign up you will be sent to a site where you can download this valuable free resource. (You may wish to send this URL to friends of yours who are also involved in ministry and bible teaching so that they too may sign up for free resources as they are made available) Information about the current free digital resource: Bible Discussion Guide Old Testament (eBook) Mack Thomas If you want to keep your group Bible study in focus...If you wish to add depth to your personal study of scripture...If you want to spark interest in the class you teach...If you are a pastor or lay leader seeking deeper insights or if you simply desire a greater understanding of God's word...this valuable digital resource is for you! Bible Study/Education/Biblical, 382+ pages. ISBN 1-58860-105-6 Suggested Retail $25.99 MS Reader eBook format (This is a digital resource) ---BeginMessage--- Title: Dear Pastor, teacher or ministry leader, Dear Pastor, teacher or ministry leader, My name is Darrell D. Neet I work for Multnomah Publishers, we are a Christian publishing company solely owned an operated by Christians. A friend of yours has asked that we inform you of our Free Pastoral Resources program. Multnomah Publishers will occasionally make available (to ministry leaders) some its valuable digital resources. These resources are for use on your PC or Windows based PDA. These are tools designed to help you and your assistants in your ministry efforts. Information from your friend: Name and/or email: Paul Tabor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Note to you: (Sorry no note was included from your friend) URL to sign up for this program: http://www.mltintranet.com/surveys/pastores/ After you sign up you will be sent to a site where you can download this valuable free resource. (You may wish to send this URL to friends of yours who are also involved in ministry and bible teaching so that they too may sign up for free resources as they are made available) Information about the current free digital resource: Bible Discussion Guide Old Testament (eBook) Mack Thomas If you want to keep your group Bible study in focus...If you wish to add depth to your personal study of scripture...If you want to spark interest in the class you teach...If you are a pastor or lay leader seeking deeper insights or if you simply desire a greater understanding of God's word...this valuable digital resource is for you! Bible Study/Education/Biblical, 382+ pages. ISBN 1-58860-105-6 Suggested Retail $25.99 MS Reader eBook format (This is a digital resource) This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and are intended for use by [EMAIL PROTECTED].If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that: (a) any disclosure, reproduction, printing, distribution, or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is strictly prohibited; (b) you must immediately return the complete message to the sender and delete the original transmission and its attachments; and (c) this message is not a solicitation for purchase or sale or an agreement of any kind whatsoever that binds the sender. ---End Message---
Re: [TruthTalk] Post Bible Revelation
You're cool, my friend. Really cool. :-) Dave Hansen wrote: what revelations (relevant to biblical prophecy, then or now) are you talking about? I was not referring to any specific revelation, nor did I intend to bring LDS revelations into the discussion. I was merely trying to learn if Glenn thought the heavens were (or are now) sealed. He outright rejected DavidM's purported revelation. I have not heard it (that I remember), and am not sure Glenn has heard it either. So I have to question why he would reject the possibility of DavidM receiving a revelation. There are two reasons I can think of.first, that the heavens are sealed (and I think Glenn said that was not the case) or that DavidM is a false prophet. Are there any other possibilities, g? On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:41:15 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe in David's revelations. I believe in Biblical revelation.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Testimony of Stephen (and his enemies)
You quoted Scripture with the same intent Satan quoted it. To make your point of your theology. In other words, as I understand you, you hide behind "proof texting". I used to do this all time. The Devil quotes Scripture. But he quotes it to misuse it. Growing pains? I took years to get out of your kind of box thinking. With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. Again, I encourage you, Glenn, to tell me how I twisted Scripture here. All I did was QUOTE it. The twisting is in your theology... nay... not your theology and not your doctrine. That's the problem. The Scripture I quoted unraveled your Humanistic Dogma. Growing pains hurt, Glenn. Learn from them and grow up. -- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] The Apostle Paul's Testimony
Good, I'm glad to hear it. I have been off of TT for a while. I guess I got you confused with Marlin. You might have me confused too. Are you saying Saturday worship is required to order to go to heaven or Saturday worship is required in order to be in right standing before God? If you are, you saying the same thing. I am not a 7th day Adventist. I am a Messianic Jew (for lack of a better term). I never said Shabbat worship is required for salvation. YOU DID. I never said I believed in works-based salvation. YOU DID. When you said "My position is not that one can't worship on Saturday. One can worship EVERY or ANY day," you contradicted yourself from emails you posted on 21 Mar 2003 17:00, 21 Mar 2003 23:34, 20 March, 2003 23:11, 21 March, 2003 06:56. I have highlighted your contradictions in red for your easy perusal.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Apostle Paul's Testimony
I don't see any contradictions in what I said. You sound like a Pharisee. Jesus condemned the Pharisees. I hope you are not a Pharisee. I am not a 7th day Adventist. I am a Messianic Jew (for lack of a better term). I never said Shabbat worship is required for salvation. YOU DID. I never said I believed in works-based salvation. YOU DID. When you said "My position is not that one can't worship on Saturday. One can worship EVERY or ANY day," you contradicted yourself from emails you posted on 21 Mar 2003 17:00, 21 Mar 2003 23:34, 20 March, 2003 23:11, 21 March, 2003 06:56. I have highlighted your contradictions in red for your easy perusal. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2003 17:00 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers The Bible does not say so. The Bible tells us no such thing. Romans 14:5-6. Why don't you call God Jehovah? I call your doctrine a lie hatched out of hell by Satan himself. Who are you to judge another? Romans 14:4. Stupid statement no. 2 - Friday ends at midnight now. Saturday begins at 12:01 now. Facts are facts. Does anyone know of a discussion group where the owners believe in salvation by grace through faith plus nothing, minus nothing? TT no longer has a Protestant foundation. We should worship YHVH on EVERY day... not just on the day you think Jesus was resurrected. I keep one particular day HOLY because the commandments tell me to do so. That day begins on "Friday" at sundown until sundown on "Saturday" night. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2003 23:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Remember the Sun's Day, to keep it holy The Son's day is Sunday. The first day of the week. It Jesus' day because he arose from the dead on Sunday. Marlin a child of Jesus? He is a child of Saturday worship among other swine doctrine. I'm leaving again, as I can't put up with the pig smell on TT. It goes from the top to the bottom. And the American military have all the gas masks. 99% of the people of TT think just like the Church of Christ thinkers. are you both 'children of jesus'? how so? g From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2003 23:11 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers Izzy, you have just sinned against me for judging me. You judged me wrong. I rebuke you along with rebuking Sabbath observance. You do no know my heart. You have sinned. "Judge not that ye be not judged". People on TT love to misuse Bible. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2003 06:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers Glenn to DaveH - I don't think you understood me. I mean I don't keep Saturday. I meet with Christians on Sunday. I believe it is a sin not to worship when our brothers and sisters worship. Hebrews 10:25. Additionally... I ENCOURAGE YOU to tell me now I "abuse Scripture and quote it just like Satan did at the temptation of Christ." All I did was quote Acts 21:19-27 and Numbers 6:31-21. -- slade - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 22 March, 2003 22:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Apostle Paul's Testimony My position is not that one can't worship on Saturday. One can worship EVERY or ANY day. What is a sin is to require others to Saturday worship (a la 7th Day Adventists) in order to go to heaven. What is a sin is to abuse Scripture and quote it just like Satan did at the temptation of Christ. My position is that 7th Day Adventists are a cult. I have come to this conclusion only from TT. I didn't used to believe this. For you to say the Law (which includes the one and only Sabbath) is dead or that it is a sin to keep it, contradicts the testimony of Paul. Paul himself participated in the Nazir vow. He participated in SIN SACRIFICES.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Dave, you have never understood Biblical saving faith and the difference between it and intellectual faith. DAVEH: Perry..Does repentance have anything to do with salvation? IOW, can those who don't repent be saved? It is totally a work of our Lord and Savior. To God be the glory for his endless mercy and grace. Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Ad hominem remarks
Marlin, liars go to hell. I am calling you a liar. I did not accuse you of being a Hitler lover. You see to be uneducated. You didn't seem to know much about him. You refused to take a stand against him and wrote things about him. You were given many chances to rebuke Hitler and you would not. Something stupid about Christians and Hitler being alike. Now you are a Judaizer as you require Saturday worship in order to be in right standing before God. Gal. 5:4. I beg you to repent of your lies. You use Scripture just like Satan used Scripture. Dear Slade, Long before you came on board, I dealt with the same incoherence. Glen was accusing me of being a judaiser who supports Hitler before he left. Go figure. Ad hominem remarks and name calling come from those who lack proof for their claims. The practice of placing words in the mouths of others who never said them is simply a violation of the commandment that says not to bear false witness against one's neighbor. It was interesting to see how long such a false witness would be banted about before some list contributors would realize who fabricated it. I found dealing with this to be a waste of precious time. I encourage list members to always ask Who? What? Where? When? Why? How? This strikes at the heart of the truth. There is "truth" and there is "the truth." That is what I seek after. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 3JO 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2JO 1:3 --Marlin
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Glenn to DaveL - The below is the different between Biblical faith and intellectual faith. The Devils have intellectual faith in Christ, but they do not have Biblical faith. David, Yes, actually it does. When one "believes", it entails much more than just saying "I believe". Before one can truly believe one must understand one's need for salvation, and this is predicated upon one's recognizing that they are a sinner and an understanding that they must repent from their sin. So, the process of establishing one's belief consists of recognizing that one is a sinner and, as such, is unworthy of standing before a just and holy God, realizing that there is nothing they can do to correct their sinful situation on their own, repenting of their sin, then putting their faith in Jesus Christ as the one whose sacrifice can save them. THEN we can say that one truly believes and is saved. No, I do not think that one who does not repent is truly saved. In fact, one who does not acknowledge his sin never feels that he needs to repent, or that he even needs a savior. Provided he believes in an afterlife, he believes that he will get into heaven because he has done nice things (works), and is not a bad person (self righteousness). I also believe that it is the Holy spirit that convicts us of our sin in the first place and leads us to belief. Otherwise, I fear that we might all be lost. By all means, when I say that one has faith, I also imply all that leads up to developing true faith. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:28:47 -0800 "Charles P. Locke" wrote: Hey, Glenn, you are not alone. I, too, understand that salvation comes through faith, "not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph 2:8,9) There is NOTHING WE CAN DO to save ourselves. DAVEH: Perry..Does repentance have anything to do with salvation? IOW, can those who don't repent be saved? It is totally a work of our Lord and Savior. To God be the glory for his endless mercy and grace.
Re: [TruthTalk] Ad hominem remarks
Izzy, with all due respect. You are blinded to your double standard. If someone is in favor of Saturday worship, even to the point of requiring it in order to be in right standing with God, you see no problem in how they write. But if one strands for the Biblical view against Judaizers, then you think they are rude. Jesus would be rude by your double standard. JESUS RAN THEM OUT OF THE TEMPLE. The problem with TT is the same problem I had many years ago with a discussion group that kicked DavidM, Gary, and me out. Tell DavidM he is not a prophet and watch him start posting like I do to Marlin. TT has been taken over by far out doctrines that are not even close to the Bible. Just "normal" Christians are overwhelmed by false doctrines. Just "normal" Christians are not welcome here. Ah, they are told they are, but in reality they are not welcome on TT. Sometimes one learns to just ignore negative behavior than try to reason with an (explosive) brick wall. (And Glenn isnt the only one!) I believe that TT should be a forum where it is SAFE to openly discuss spiritual issues, without fear of being shouted down, insulted, or cast into hell. Unfortunately, there are some here that treat others with such disrespect that it makes it difficult to have a reasonable discussion. Perhaps we can talk above the fray? Slade, Id love to hear your testimony. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
You didn't come clean on this verse. You misused the verse out of context to defend your works/salvation. You are slick by asking a question and not making a statement, but I can read between the lines. Glenn wrote: What you say above means one cannot save themselves. I think you know the context of Acts 2:40. I agree that we cannot save ourselves, but I do not agree that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. God has extended his salvation to us, without which no man can be saved. Furthermore, in our deprived condition, we would not even be wise enough to accept his plan of salvation except that he drew us to it by his Spirit. When that happens, however, we must yield to him and respond. There is something we can do to accept his salvation, and that is respond to him, repent of our sins and believe in Christ. There are many things we can do to facilitate God working in our lives, but without Him, there would be nothing we could do of our own accord by our own works or by our own power alone.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Perry, you've had it now. You've hit David's sacred cow. The only problem is I have seen on TT, that he is not perfect. He is a great person, but far far far from perfect. Perry wrote: I do believe that we are expected to keep the commandments, which are outlined by Jesus in the verses below, and in other places in the scriptures. However, I do not believe that we are expected to live sinless lives...in fact, I believe that we cannot. The verse "be ye therefore perfect because your father in heaven is perfect" is the passage commonly used as a prooftext for this belief, but if one considers what "perfect" meant in 1611, it does not mean the same as it does today.
[TruthTalk] To Marlin:
It's now the Lord's Day, Sunday. The day our Lord arose from the dead. I urge you to worship with some Christians today. Hebrews 10:25. I encourage you to leave your Judaism/works salvation, 7th Day Adventists doctrines, and embrace Christ only for your salvation. Millions of Christians will observe the Lord's Supper, listen to the word of God taught, probably thousands will be baptized worldwide. PS. By the way, one young teen-ager was saved last Thursday evening here. I'm hope God wrote her name down in heaven as she will not observe a Saturday worship. :-) HERE'S WHAT I HAVE FOUND OUT. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE WORKS ARE NECESSARY FOR SALVATION HAVE MORE WORKS THAN THOSE WHO MIXED IN WORKS FOR SALVATION.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
If you have a Church of Christ background you know all the dirt on all the church fathers. You are using a CC attack. The dirt stops CC people from examing the truth. How many people on TruthTalk knew that Luther rejected the book of James as not part of the Bible
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
David, you have called me a hypocrite. You are dead wrong. You are showing how imperfect you are. What have you got against me? I have to rebuke you in Jesus name for calling me a hypocrite. Glenn, you play the hypocrite and you seem to be the only one who can't see it. Everything
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
No, I will not do this. But I will leave TT. I understand why you are kicking me off of TT. You do not welcome the hard truth on TT. You, my sincere friend, as a hypocrite. You do what you accuse me of doing. For the sake of the list, I'm going to ask you Glenn to limit your posts to two posts per day for one week. Are you willing to do this on a voluntary basis? I think if you limited your posts to two a day, perhaps instead of just lashing out insults at people, you might try to argue your position from wisdom rather than by the quantity of posts you are able to produce. The problem is that we spend so much time reading your posts and being distracted by what we think you might be saying that we have no time to have meaningful discussions. So can this work? Are you willing to work with me on this?
Re: [TruthTalk] List Guidelines
David, you are hard hearded. You have refused to listen to me. I have NEVER said I want only Protestant views allowed. I have said, you are no longer standing up for Protestant Bibilical views as you did years ago. A Christian is an odd ball on TT. A Christian is an outcast on TT. Glenn, surely one of them might suit your desire for a discussion forum where only orthodox Protestant views are allowed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Conversion is NOT enough!
These 7th Day Cultists don't answer questions, they simply abuse Scripture. The Devil quoted Scripture when he tempted Jesus. I REPEAT, THE DEVIL QUOTED SCRIPTURE WHEN HE TEMPTED JESUS. There is a parallel here. [EMAIL PROTECTED] queried ... are you both 'children of jesus'? how so? g The SAVIOUR said ... "Except ye be converted AND become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3) Shabbat Shalom,
Re: [TruthTalk] Remember the Sun's Day, to keep it holy
LOL It seems to me to you are telling a falsehood here. I am oddball out here. I stand for savlation by grace and not just by lib service. A Christian is a weirdo on TT. Im sure we will all miss you, too, Glenn! Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Gal. 5:1. I honestly believe the Bible teaches a person backslides when he goes from salvation by grace through faith to mixing salvation with the law. Gal. 5:4. It is obvious that Christ has become of no effect to 7th Day Adventists and others on TT that take up for the 7th Day cult. The reason this might be true of _ is because __ explains away plain Scripture on the fulfillment of the OT _law. If Jesus had not fulfilled the law, He could not have stated "IT IS FINISHED"! How much more dows it take? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Much learning can make a person "mad". David has become better and better at explaining away salvation by grace through faith. Common Sense is greatly lacking in these detailed humanistic explanations. Surely, Paul (as in Eph. 3:4 and John 20:31 for a quick example) wrote so as to be understood. There is virtue in "common sense" Bible reading. Alexander Campbell one said, "When I at last took the naked text and read it with common sense, the Bible became a new book to me". "We must come within understanding distance" -- which means the heart as well as the head is involved in making sense of the Bible. ALL SCRIPTURE MUST BE INTERPRETED IN REFERENCE TO THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST! To put it another way, our Lord is Himself the interpreter of Scripture. 7th Day Adventist and their sympathizers will take away your freedom in Christ if you allow them. Gal. 5:1. TT over the years has become a place where Biblcial truth is give "lip" talk but not understood even in simple salvation. A true Bible believer is not welcome on TT even thought TT claims otherwise. I am also interested in hearing your answer to the second question I asked: "If he did, what does that do to the law under the new covenant?" Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
WRONG. IT DOES NOT COME FROM INSTANT BELIEVISM. David, you are as blinded when it comes to this as any person I have ever met. You can't see beyond easy believism to ANYTHING. Because of this you are taken in (deceived) by a works salvation. I think if you are honest with examining where you got your viewpoint here, you will see that it came not from studying the Bible, but from listening to popular Christian preachers. It comes from the instant salvation, easy believism kind of Christianity that does not tell believers to count the cost to see whether or not they can pay the price it will take to follow Christ.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
There is no need to show you any Bible. You explain away the Bible with humanistic reasoning. Your mind is made up so why confuse you with the truth? You re blinded because of easy believism. If you try to save yourself, David, you will go straight to hell. The verse about "save yourself". Please, that is not worth answering. This leads me to doubt your sincerity when you bring up this. Surely, you know better, unless it is part of your blindness. There are definitely two different Davidms. you have a reference that somehow does away with this teaching of Christ? Glenn offered John 3:16, but nothing in this passage supports anything other than faith is what saves us, and we all agree with that.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Terry, there is Biblical saving faith and there is intellectual faith. I believe that George Washington was President of the United States but I am not believing in GW to take me to heaven. I am not believing in church membership, perfectionism, baptism, Lord's Supper, works, etc., to take me to heaven. Glenn and Perry: Salvation does come through faith. We all know that. Where we have a problem is coming to a conclusion about what is incuded in a description of faith. We know that it has to include more than simply believing, because as James says, even the devil believes. We know that love is involved, because love covers a multitude of sins. We know repentance is involved , because without repentance there can be no forgiveness. We know obedience is involved because Jesus asked some who claimed to follow Him in word but not in deed, "Why do you call me Lord, when you do not do as I tell you to do?" The implication being that He was not their Lord, because they did not obey. We know that He must increase and we must decrease, and we know that if we have no works, then we have no faith. We cannot grab one verse out of God's word and ignore the thousands of other verses that give us the whole picture. Blessings, Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
What you are saying below is a smoke screen to the truth. It doesn't address the point that the law if over. It is much ado about nothing. Saying, "It is finished" does not mean that everything is finished. Jesus was talking about his destiny to be the sacrifice for the sins of the world. That's what he meant by, "it is finished."
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Tremendous post.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Glenn wrote: I believe that George Washington was President of the United States but I am not believing in GW to take me to heaven. ... I am not believing in church membership, perfectionism, baptism, Lord's Supper, works, etc., to take me to heaven. I haven't heard anyone on TruthTalk argue that church membership, perfectionism, or the Lord's Supper save men. I think most of us, perhaps all of us, have the same concept of faith as what you describe here. Glenn, don't you believe that a man with faith will have good works follow him? That is what we believe. Aren't we in agreement with this? Doesn't faith produce good works? I don't understand who or what you are arguing against. Glenn - Yes, I agree with what you said above. But you double talk. If what you say above is true, then salvation is by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing. What you say above is the opposite of what you said previously about not believing in salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing. You cannot have it both ways. What you say above means one cannot save themselves. I think you know the context of Acts 2:40. If the Republican Guard in Baghdad wants to save themselves, then they must separate themselves from Saddam H. That is the context of Acts 2:40. All I can tell is that you have some chip on your shoulder against me personally. Why do you hate me so much? Glenn - I assure you, I do not hate you. In fact, I like you. I appreciate you very much. I would love to meet you sometime. I think you are as sincere a person as I have ever met. That's why I have come down so hard on you when you get mixed up in a works salvation while giving lip service to a grace salvation. I love you in the Lord. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Again, David, you act like the Church of Christ. I think you should start attending one. You might like it. The Church of Christ attacks the messenger when they can't refute the message. You have attacked the messenger, and you have not refuted salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing. The term "sola fide" means "faith alone." When Luther translated the Bible, he did something very much like what the Jehovah's Witnesses did with John 1:1. The JW's created a translation that added a word to the verse, so that John 1:1 says that the Word was "a god" rather than just saying the Word was "God." Luther created a translation that ADDED the word "sola" (alone) to Romans 3:28, so that the passage would read that man is justified by "faith alone" (sola fide). He felt that the context justified his insertion of this extra word.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
You are right. I was trying to give an illustration of the context. The context of Acts 2:40 had to do with the evil civilization around them. Below was what I was trying to illustrate. This verse is not about getting saved from my sins but about get saved from physical destruction in context. The New John Gill Exposition of the Bible saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation: meaning, the chief priests, Scribes, and Pharisees, and elders of the people, chiefly, who were a perverse generation of men; and upon whom, for their impenitence and unbelief, for their rejection of the Messiah, and their evil treatment of him, wrath and ruin would come upon them, to the uttermost, very quickly; wherefore the apostle exhorts to separate from them, and not partake of their sins, lest they should also of their plagues; but come out from among them, and so, in a temporal sense, save themselves from the destruction that would quickly come on their nation, city, and temple; and so the Arabic version renders it, "escape from this rough generation". Glenn said... What you say above means one cannot save themselves. I think you know the context of Acts 2:40. If the Republican Guard in Baghdad wants to save themselves, then they must separate themselves from Saddam H. That is the context of Acts 2:40. Uhhh... whatever happened to "salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing?" You've also said, "I use the term salvation in a common sense way. I use the term to mean I have had my sins forgiven and the Holy Spirit lives within me." You are now contradicting yourself because you said, "If the Republican Guard in Baghdad wants to save themselves, then they must separate themselves from Saddam!" Your suggesting salvation through WORKS for the Republican Guard in Baghdad, and I must disagree with you on this point, for Ephesians 2:8-9 says: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) But that is followed IMMEDIATELY by: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) Are you suggesting that the rest of us can be saved by separating ourselves from Saddam as well, or does this LAW apply only to the Republican Guard in Baghdad? -- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] The Apostle Paul's Testimony
My position is not that one can't worship on Saturday. One can worship EVERY or ANY day. What is a sin is to require others to Saturday worship (a la 7th Day Adventists) in order to go to heaven. What is a sin is to abuse Scripture and quote it just like Satan did at the temptation of Christ. My position is that 7th Day Adventists are a cult. I have come to this conclusion only from TT. I didn't used to believe this. For you to say the Law (which includes the one and only Sabbath) is dead or that it is a sin to keep it, contradicts the testimony of Paul. Paul himself participated in the Nazir vow. He participated in SIN SACRIFICES.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Testimony of Stephen (and his enemies)
Again, you quote Scripture just like Satan. The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith. And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people. But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen. But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking. Then they secretly induced men to say, "We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God." And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council. They put forward false witnesses who said, "This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law; for we have heard him say that this Nazarene, Jesus, will destroy this place and alter the customs which Moses handed down to us." And fixing their gaze on him, all who were sitting in the Council saw his face like the face of an angel. The high priest said, "Are these things so?" (Acts 6:7-7:1)
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
WRONG! This is just like the Church of Christ mixing works and salvation. Saturday worship has nothing to do with Christ today. TT has a secret agenda (It seems to me.) to teach a doctrine that people who refuse to wear the name of Christ are on their way to heaven. ONLY people belonging to Christ (Christian - that's what the divine word means -- belonging to Christ) will be in heaven in our age. Sabbath? That's nada meaning today. A good thing to do on Saturday is to the mall or a good baseball game. A good morning to sleep in. To require Saturday worship is sick doctrine. SATURDAY IS A great day for RETAIL SALES. David, quit taking up for Judiazers. This is a grave doctrinal error. Quit taking up for Jews that refuse to wear the name of Christ. This is grave doctrinal error. This is the reason I left TT and will leave it again. I can't take much of this tommyrot. It breaks my heart to see you bound up in this sick teaching. You might as well be Mormon, Roman Catholic, or Church of Chirst. Glenn wrote: THE SABBATH HAS NO MEANING TO ME. I will just line up with Jesus Christ on this one. You do not line up with Jesus Christ on this one. The Sabbath had meaning to Jesus Christ, and still does, and it had meaning to all his apostles. To make a statement like this is to depart from the doctrine of Christ. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
David, your whole comments below are built upon a false foundation. The false foundation is that Saturday worship is still a law. This is a sick foundation. Jesus lived under the law (a broke it's traditions) I do not. To mix works with salvation Roman Catholicism. You answered you own question. THE LAW IS FULFILLED. To use Saturday for retail sales is not breaking any commandment We do have speed limits but we do not have Sabbath limits. You driving illustration does not compute with the Sabbath. It is a great illustration of how I live. BUT it has nothing to do with Sabbath worship. Glenn wrote: The commandments have changed. What? Have you become a Mormon now? LOL. Jesus taught that until heaven and earth passed away, there would be no change in the commandments. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Now notice that verse 19 says that those who break one of these least commandments will still be "in the kingdom of heaven." So I'm not going to argue against the idea that one can break the commandments and still receive the kingdom of heaven. What does concern me is teaching men that they can break the commandments, and what is even worse is to contradict Jesus Christ and claim that the commandments have changed. To claim that the commandments have changed suggests that you believe that righteousness still comes by keeping the law, but by keeping the "NEW" commandments rather than the "OLD" ones. Either that, or you don't believe that there are any commandments at all, which would make you an anarchist. Either way, such understanding that the commandments have "changed" is departing from the doctrine of Christ. There is a right way to understand how the law has been done away, and that is in regard to how a person obtains righteousness. It has to do with our walk in the Lord. Let me give you an example. Suppose that when I drive my car, I am conscientious about being safe. Out of my concern and understanding that my car is a lethal weapon, I always drive within the posted speed limits, but without even looking at the speed limit signs. In such a situation, the laws have been done away with for me. I don't really pay attention to the posted laws because I abide by the laws without really paying attention to them. Now it might be fair for me to say that there has been a doing away with the laws concerning speeding in my life, but it is only with respect to my personal observance of them. I don't care about the speed limit laws per se. I only care about driving safely in such a way that I don't cause other people harm. As long as I abide within the speed limit, there will be no problem with my teaching others to walk in the same way, ignoring the letter of the law, but abiding in the spirit of the law. Nevertheless, the laws are still there and in force. If I were to violate them, I would be reminded that they are in force by a policeman pulling me over and writing me a ticket. The law then has application in my life if I become a transgressor, but if by nature I keep the law, then I am not a transgressor, even if I am ignorant of the law and don't even know what it says. "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Rom 2:11-16) Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Informal Poll
Yes, I have. AN INFORMAL POLL: Has anyone on truthtalk ever changed their point of view or doctrine because of arguments presented on truth talk by other members? Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
My answer to all this mixing of works and salvation is John 3:16. Salvation by grace through faith plus nothing minus nothing. John 3:16. Of course I have heard this explained away on TT. Much talk about salvation by grace, but when all the posting is said and done, it is not what is believed. Between the lines there is a mixture of works, Saturday worship requirements, baptism, etc., required in order to get to heaven. To deny this is to deny Protestantism. To deny this one should go join the Roman Catholics, Church of Christ, Jesus Only Pentecostals, Jehovah Witnesses, or Mormons. They're all the same when it comes to a mixture of salvation with works. What I like about Pentecostals is they believe God can do anything. What is sick about Pentecostals is their mixing of tongues, works, and salvation. It is relatively easy to get a Roman Catholic converted to Church of Christ because they don't understand salvation by grace through faith plus nothing minus nothing. Poor old DaveL will never understand what mainline Christians believe if he tries to find out on TT. TT is kind of like a cult discussion group. Nothing wrong with that, but DaveL seldom hears what real Christians believe. David, you have a blind spot. NO ONE, THAT'S NO ONE. One more time, I have never met a Pastor (no one), and I have met thousands, who teach "sin in Jesus". David, quit teaching Pastors teach that. You are falsely accusing the brethren. This is sin. Now, that is not to say there are not hypocrites. 2 John is the Scripture religious groups use falsely use to make others believe their doctrine or you are not a Christian. TT is kind of like a cult discussion group. That is fine as to purpose, but there is very little if any Christian discussion. Here is what I believe about the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine concerns the doctrine of the PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST. 2 John - Chapter 1 - Verse 9 - The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible on SearchGodsWord.org Here is what you (it seems), Romans Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Church of Christ teach. This is a Church of Christ commentary. Notice the doctrine of Christ is only their understanding of the Bible. This is not the doctrine of Christ as I understand it. 2 John - Chapter 1 - Coffman's Commentary of the New Testament on SearchGodsWord.org "we are saved by faith alone, plus nothing, minus nothing."
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Glenn to DaveH - Agreed, except for the grand entrance. :-) Whether one worships on Saturday or Sunday or whenever, doesn't concern me as much as whether one feels the need to have reverence for the Lord on a regular basis. I'm sure the way you explained your believe was meant to agitate some of us TTers, and it did.Job well done, Brother Glenn! Welcome back to TT...You've made a grand entrance VBG
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Yes, I am judging right from wrong. I am not judging your motives. For example, I am judging as wrong the requirement for Saturday worship. NOW, if I say, Izzy, the reason you want to play like you believe in Saturday worship is to have a day where you have an excuse to not do anything. You can tell your husband you're going to do something because it is Saturday. It is the only way you can get people to leave you alone. NOW THAT WOULD BE JUDGING WHY (Your motives.) YOU PRETEND TO OBSERVE SATURDAY AND THAT WOULD BE WRONG ON MY PART. But to judge that professional article you sent to TT is not judging your motives. That professional article you sent was good Roman Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, etc., doctrine. BUT IT WAS NOT BIBLICAL. Glenn, I have only given you warning that it is the Lord who weighs your boasting, so be very careful that your boasting is not considered arrogance to Him, who is Judge. Do you only come on TT to indulge in rebuking those who love you? We are told in John 7:24 to judge with righteous judgement; not to refrain from judging. It is you who are judging me. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Informal Poll
ROFL Times 666. You would make a good Church of Christ member. 2) When I first joined TruthTalk, I use to believe that we were saved by faith alone, but because of discussions here on TruthTalk, I have changed my viewpoint to see that Scripture does not teach this.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
You twice wrong. I do not teach that. Saturday worship is fulfilled and no longer required. You are wrong on what I said. BUT more importantly you are wrong on what Jesus said. Glenn teaches that keeping the Sabbath holy is no longer law. Jesus taught that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass. Whose doctrine should I believe, Glenn's doctrine or Jesus' doctrine? I
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Law is fulfilled. Study Hebrews. The veil has been torn from top to bottom. Please explain to me what you do with his passage (Mat. 5:18)?
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
There is a difference in REFUSING to be called a Christian and honestly be mistaken on wearing the Divine name of Christian as was a fulfillment of prophecy. So I guess we might agree. But we really don't because the people you are referring to REFUSE to wear the name Christian. Now, I do not judge their salvation. That is up to God. I don't know if they are going to hell or heaven. You do judge their salvation by saying they are going to heaven. You are in the salvation judging business and I am not. Furthermore, I do not believe that those who wear the label "Christian" are the only ones saved.
Re: [TruthTalk] Informal Poll
Izzy, You have shown me you a hateful attitude toward those who clearly show your Saturday keeping a false lie hatched out of hell. Perry, I have changed my mind about at least a couple of things due to TT: 1) I used to believe that faith in Jesus plus nothing else = salvation. But the intolerant, arrogant, and even hateful attitude of those with that belief has taught me that just "believing" without love and obedience = talk without the walk. Not a real salvation, just a head knowledge. Even the devils "believe"! 2) I used to believe what I was always taught, which was "No one is perfect. We will always be sinners saved by grace. There is no hope to stop sinning completely." Thanks to David M. I now believe that we should see that as a lie of the devil, and make it our aim to accept nothing but a sinless life by His grace. He died not only to Forgive our sins, but to set us Free from sinning! It requires faith for both. I've probably changed some other ideas, but I can't think what right now. Perhaps I've grown more tolerant of Aardvarks? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Izzy, is not honest with herself. He takes up for Judaizers and their "go to hell" attitude, but she gives people like me, who believe in salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing minus nothing, sharp jags. The people who require Saturday worship get her "niceness", but if anyone disagrees with Saturday required worship they are mean and hateful. Izzy, is blinded by her doctrine. AGAIN A DOUBLE IZZY STANDARD. ONE SET OF STANDARDS FOR JUDAIZERS AND ANOTHER FOR THOSE WHO WORSHIP ON THE DAY OUR LORD WAS RESURRECTED.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
You obviously are a very sick religious bigot. I guess I need to treat you like a baby and a sinner headed to hell. The New Testament does not say so. WHO GIVES A FLIP WHAT 7TH DAY ADVENTIST SAY??? NOW LET ME ANSWER THAT. JESUS DOES AND HE CONDEMNED TO AN EVERLASTING HELL FIRE THE PHARISEES. I LIKE JESUS, SAY TO YOU, "YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL". I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THROUGH THE POWER OF HIS SHED BLOOD ON CALVARY FOR ATTACKING JACK VAN IMPE. Of course this is typical of people who's father is the Devil. You're the only person who is right. JEHOVAH IS NOT THE NAME OF GOD??? GO TO HELL QUIETLY The Bible DOES say so. Perhaps you should read the testimony of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Daniel. When did they worship YHVH? The name jehovah is not his name. It's a made up thing. There are no "J" sounds in Hebrew. (Hebrew is the language the Bible was originally written in... not King's English.) You certainly fit the prophesy spoken of in Isaiah 5:20. (By the way, Isaiah's real name is Yeshayahu.) For the record. Who cares about Protestant foundations. Who cares about Jewish foundations. Who cares about RCC foundations. It's all stubble that will BURN in the fires of HELL. It's time every single one of us gets a Biblical foundation. Personally, I think the members of this group are trying to discover if the foundation under their feet is Biblical or if they are HUMANISTIC DOGMA. This is highly admirable. Questions are being asked, states are being made, and most people are able to handle themselves without getting their panties all in a knot. If this is not to your liking, I suggest you go to Jack Van Impe's website and ask someone there. I'm sure they'll tickle your ears... they tickled mine for a year or so. Who knows, maybe you'll even agree on the Pre-Trib Rapture thing.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
I WARN YOU THAT YOU ARE DEFILING THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. YOU JUST INSULTED JEHOVAH GOD, THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE BY TEACHING "IN FOR HELL" DOCTRINE. WHAT IS WORSE IS THAT YOU ARE TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO DEFILE THE NAME OF JEHOVAH TOO!! YOU ARE SICK! YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL. Regarding the comment "Stupid statement no. 2 - Friday ends at midnight now..." I fell I should caution you if you decide to go out tonight to defile the Sabbath. You should take great care as you drive home from the bar. You just insulted the CREATOR of the Universe and His HOLY day is about to begin. See you on the first day of the week if you survive. My children and I are going to spend my time with Him.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Since when you are God, Izzy? Michael D: Slade, one wonders if glorified bodies like Jesus' which walked through walls, will ever get tired and need to rest John says that when we see Jesus we will be like Him. Paul says that we shall be changed. One wonders what would be the need of a Sabbath??? (Note, I did not say that there wouldn't be one). Michael, Why did God need to rest on the 7th day? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Slade si cool because he is a Judaizer which people are condemned to hello fire in Galatians. But I am mean and ugly because I stand for salvation by grace through faith. You are sick too Izzy. Slade, You are so cool! J Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Informal Poll
Izzy, you have just described below Slade who whoever the Pharisee is. Terry, Perhaps you are being facetious, but I think you are right. But if anyone on TT thinks they have a corner on the whole truth, and being right, and totally correct doctrine, and are the only one who can read the Bible correctly, wellI guess they would be jumping up and down and yelling at everyone else, and accusing them of all sorts of heresies. Certainly no one would do such a thing! J Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
What you are saying David, is NOT what the Bible says, but this is nothing new here on TT with the non-Christian view. Jesus did NOT fulfill all the law. His coming to fulfill the law is progressive. He fulfilled many parts, such as the part requiring atonement for sin, ushering in the Kingdom of God, making the way for us to obtain righteousness and be free of sin. However, he makes it very clear in this passage that all would not be fulfilled until heaven and earth pass. 1 Cor. 15:26 says that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and we expect many things besides this to yet be fulfilled according to the law, including the salvation of Israel and the universal rule of Messiah.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
I don't believe in David's revelations. I believe in Biblical revelation. David, When will you finish telling us about your Sabbath revelation? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] No heavenly city for Glenn ...
ONLY YOU AND YOUR "KIND" OF DOCTRINE ARE RIGHT. YOU JUST VERIFIED WHAT I SAID. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT. JESUS HAS SPECIAL WORDS FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU. I will not rebuke you again in the name of Jehovah and in the name of Jesus the Christ. Cast not your pearls before the swine. EVEN YOUR ABUSE OF HOLY SCRIPTURE IS SICK. ... except he repent! \o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie" Revelation 21:27 Glenn wrote of Slade ... You're the only person who is right. WRONG, Glenn ... I'm right, too! Chris
[TruthTalk] What I have changed about my beliefs while on TT
I used to think 7th Day Adventists were not a cult. I have changed my beliefs on this. I now believe 7th Day Adventists are a cult. I now believe they are headed to hell fire forever and ever if they die in their 7th Day Adventists condition. I now believe they are spiritual pigs eating the filth of Satan's doctrines.
Re: [TruthTalk] Informal Poll
There is a time to give a soft answer. There is a time to rebuke. 2 Tim. 3:16-17. How a man of God speaks to others often depends upon how worthy the receivers are to receive. 1 Cor. 4:21. Certainly not Iz. Christians know that a soft answer turns away wrath. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing. There is no salvation in Roman Catholic, Church of Christ, 7th Day Adventist, Jesus Only Pentecostals, or Mormons membership. Salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing. I grieve to know that you think this is a salvation issue. Please pray and consider your posts before you send them. In that way, emotive responses can be avoided. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Eph 2:8-9) Salvation is the gift of YHVH. There is no question about
Fwd: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Our Lord and Savior broke the Sabbath traditions. I break the Sabbath every Sabbath. I am proud of it. I brag about it. Yes, indeed. THE SABBATH HAS NO MEANING TO ME. I will just line up with Jesus Christ on this one. 7th Day Adventists are a spiritually sick and miserable religion. Condemn me and you are aligning with those who condemned Jesus. Yes, indeed, I rejoice in your condemnations. There is a major problem with mixing grace and works with salvation (even while claiming not to do so) it makes faith something to be measured by loyalty to creeds and dogmas, not to fidelity to Jesus as Lord. My faith is personal rather than doctrinal -- CENTERED IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST. My faithfulness cannot be measure by loyalty to creeds and dogmas. I BOW TO JESUS CHRIST AND NONE OTHER. ---BeginMessage--- Slade Henson wrote: I grieve to know that you think this is a salvation issue. Please pray and consider your posts before you send them. LOL.I wish I had thought to say that in some of my past responses to you, Glenn! In that way, emotive responses can be avoided.For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Eph 2:8-9)Salvation is the gift of YHVH. There is no question about that (Genesis 15:6).-- slade - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2003 07:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers There is a major problem with mixing grace and works with salvation (even while claiming not to do so) it makes faith something to be measured by loyalty to creeds and dogmas, not to fidelity to Jesus as Lord. My faith is personal rather than doctrinal -- CENTERED IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST. My faithfulness cannot be measure by loyalty to creeds and dogmas. I BOW TO JESUS CHRIST AND NONE OTHER. Slade wrote: The death penalty was stayed because David did not REBEL and hide his sin. Is this something you find in the law of God? Where in the Torah does it say that if a man commits murder and does not rebel and hide what he did, then his death penalty will be stayed? Whatever system you come up with, David, it must explain why David was not stoned for his sin. Should we not give YHVH room to work his Chesed? Chesed is not just a New Testament concept. David proves it. Peace be with you. And SHALOM to you as well. -- slade -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. ---End Message---
