Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[coz DS]

OI!!


On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
> DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> --
> Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> --
> () Campania Panglicii în ASCII
> /\ http://stas.nerd.ro/ascii/
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Jussi Kekkonen]

Hmm, have an idea how to do this with mobile client of gmail? if so,
please tell me, I tried to look everywhere

2008/5/1, Conn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:32 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > i found out something about gmail recently, it automatically gets rid of
> > the quoted text and replaces it with "show quoted text"
> >
>
> It's really not so difficult to bottom-post from Gmail; I use it as my main
> mail client and I have no trouble doing so. Interjecting between quoted text
> is also easy, you just need to click on "show quoted text" (if necessary),
> position the cursor wherever you wish to make a break and press return
> twice. Also, it's a good idea to quote only relevant parts when you are
> replying to a previous post (for the purpose of clarity, among other
> things).
>
> You may believe people are being unfair or nit-picking about this "top
> posting" issue, but it really does matter to people who have subscribed to
> this list in digest form. For personal correspondence I am lazy and will
> almost always top post (except for longer emails that have several points -
> then I will reply inline). I do understand and abide by conventions of
> etiquette for mailing lists, however, and I think everyone else should make
> this effort as well.
>
> If more people used gmail, you would understand why it is easier to *GASP*
> > top-post, but the easiest way to bottom post in gmail is to erase
> > everything, which is hard.
> >
>
> Your argument is valid assuming that everyone uses Gmail - they don't. I do
> believe there may even be Gmail users that subscribe to this list in digest
> form, and these posts won't get magically resorted even for them.
>
> I would encourage anyone who still doesn't see the point to read the
> relevant Wikipedia article:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting
>


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[shadowh511]

I have a lot of free time, so, yeah, but let me warn you, I have no
experience in coding GTK themes, I can get everyone on track though.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So.
>
> Who's gonna step up and lead a team?
>
> Who has a vision?
>
> Who can pull something together?
>
> (and before anyone says something, I'm not trying to invoke "Who"
> himself) ;)
>
> -Cory \m/
>
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>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

So.

Who's gonna step up and lead a team?

Who has a vision?

Who can pull something together?

(and before anyone says something, I'm not trying to invoke "Who"
himself) ;)

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Panels

[Justin Gruenberg]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Steph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * The animated, "live" wallpaper : [. . .]

Do people really have their desktop visible that often?  I think the
idea is neat for a default theme, but it has to be dependent on
minimal effect on resources.

>
> * Organisation : As you said, there's a great lack of organisation in this
> list. We don't have any art tracker or anything (what has be done of
> art.ubuntu.com, it's been months since I'me waiting?). But we have the
> Ubuntu Wiki, indeed, wich is actually a very good place to share ideas and
> show the progress of each team.

In the 8.04 release cycle, I mostly lurked around (I'm an engineer,
not an artist--I'm not going to be the one to design the new default
theme).  There is one thing that is obvious:  this effort needs better
structured leadership and process.

[ . . . ]

> The a first proposition for Intrepix : what about increasing the size of
> both gnome panels ? The default, lowest size is 24 pixels, and setting it at
> 32px produces a much pleasing effect. A pleasing desktop shouldn't force
> user to squint to see what's written. Those who have a bad vision would be
> glad. Technically, I don't know if this increase of panel size causes some
> problems with window display, if anybody can tell me more about this...And
> then, we should __definitely__ find a gnome panel background, or anything
> but delete this stupid grey color.

Thats a lot of whitespace.  If I had a huge LCD, I'd be inclined to
agree with you.  But on my laptop, that's a pretty significant amount
of real estate.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Kenneth Wimer]

Hello (art)world!

On Wednesday 30 April 2008 22:30:37 Who wrote:


I agree 100% completely, totally, honestly, genuinely with everything Who has 
said and think that you should listen to him.

Create themes which please *you*. Show off what you can do. Talk to others for 
help and inspiration. Make this community a community not just a small club.

The idea is to prove that we can:

 * create amazing artwork

 * make entire themes based on these different amazing ideas

 * do all of this consistently over a longer period of time

The default theme is an evolution. New ideas are planned based on ideas taken, 
in some part, from the wiki. The more good ideas we present the more effect 
we will have on the default ubuntu artwork. Using the Heron wallpaper was a 
big step for us, I think. Making GDM use some of the forms from the wallpaper 
a baby step nonetheless. 

I am not saying that people should not try to create artwork which is line 
with the guidelines (somewhat better ones are coming, btw). 

Please realize that we cannot simply throw everything out the door and start 
totally new in one release. There simply isn't enough time to do it that 
way - it has to be an evolution. Working on your own theme you would not be 
bound to such issues and are free to create whatever you like.

One thing that I think we should look into is including some of the better 
themes in the default selection of themes on the CD. This might mean just 
picking some good ones from gnome-look or including some of the community 
themes, depending on how this all works out (and pending technical review). 
In any case we should have packages available for all complete themes. We 
could probably include them in one meta-package as well for the theme hungry.

Anyway, if you didn't catch the ubuntu openweek artwork talk, the log is 
available at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/Artwork
It was my first time, so give me a break :-)

So basically, for those of you looking to the bottom of the mail for the 
beginning of my text (I'm a bottom-poster, I admit)

Who do we listen to? Yes!

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[sylvain marc]

I've got some ideas to propose, but in french, so, it was difficult...
few month ago,, i post them to Kenneth Wimer,
but i havent got answers for the moment.

I want to do something for the next Ubuntu, but i don't know how to do...
(icones, themes, GDM... for Gnome)
(i'm not programmer, only user (on triple boot, and with virtual machine in
one of the boot)
WinXP + Ubuntu 7.10 + (K)UbuntuStudio 7.10 (with Ubuntu 6.06 / Ubuntu 8.04 /
gOS / and other... in VirtualBox))

Proposition : Why not using "Live Clone" in Ubuntu 8.10 (i discover it on
Zenwalk Live 5.0) ?
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[sylvain marc]

2008/4/30 Vik Reykja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


> Clique sur "Répondre" ou clique simplement dans la boîte, puis deplace le
> curseur en bas en enlevant au passage tous les commentaires auquels tu ne
> réponds pas.
>
> Voir aussi: 
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU_(Usenet_et_Internet)
>

OK, and thank you Vik, i understand more now.
"Je ferais attention à l'avenir"
I will be carefull for the futur.
...
Sorry for my bad practice : i don't know the practice i use was bad...
because i dont know i use it, and because i didnt know its bad...
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Vik Reykja]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:01 PM, sylvain marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry, i use Gmail, and i clic on "repondre", when i want to do it, to
> give my opinion... and i dont know how to do in oter way.
> I don't anderstand wery well english, so can you explain me how to do.
>

Voir aussi: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU_(Usenet_et_Internet)
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Conn]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:32 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i found out something about gmail recently, it automatically gets rid of
> the quoted text and replaces it with "show quoted text"
>

It's really not so difficult to bottom-post from Gmail; I use it as my main
mail client and I have no trouble doing so. Interjecting between quoted text
is also easy, you just need to click on "show quoted text" (if necessary),
position the cursor wherever you wish to make a break and press return
twice. Also, it's a good idea to quote only relevant parts when you are
replying to a previous post (for the purpose of clarity, among other
things).

You may believe people are being unfair or nit-picking about this "top
posting" issue, but it really does matter to people who have subscribed to
this list in digest form. For personal correspondence I am lazy and will
almost always top post (except for longer emails that have several points -
then I will reply inline). I do understand and abide by conventions of
etiquette for mailing lists, however, and I think everyone else should make
this effort as well.

If more people used gmail, you would understand why it is easier to *GASP*
> top-post, but the easiest way to bottom post in gmail is to erase
> everything, which is hard.
>

Your argument is valid assuming that everyone uses Gmail - they don't. I do
believe there may even be Gmail users that subscribe to this list in digest
form, and these posts won't get magically resorted even for them.

I would encourage anyone who still doesn't see the point to read the
relevant Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Vik Reykja]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:01 PM, sylvain marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry, i use Gmail, and i clic on "repondre", when i want to do it, to
> give my opinion... and i dont know how to do in oter way.
> I don't anderstand wery well english, so can you explain me how to do.
>

Clique sur "Répondre" ou clique simplement dans la boîte, puis deplace le
curseur en bas en enlevant au passage tous les commentaires auquels tu ne
réponds pas.

Click on "Reply" or simply click in the box, then move the cursor to the
bottom deleting all the comments you're not responding to on your way.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Justin Gruenberg]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:32 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i found out something about gmail recently, it automatically gets rid of the
> quoted text and replaces it with "show quoted text"
>
> If more people used gmail, you would understand why it is easier to *GASP*
> top-post, but the easiest way to bottom post in gmail is to erase
> everything, which is hard.

Thats one reason for you.  Don't be selfish.

It makes reading from the mailing list archive (linked at the end of
each email) much easier if quotes are limited to the relevant sections
and the reply is at the bottom.  Gmail will often hide the quoted
section, but it doesn't for all (not really sure how it works).

It's best to just follow the standard etiquette.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[sylvain marc]

Sorry, i use Gmail, and i clic on "repondre", when i want to do it, to give
my opinion... and i dont know how to do in oter way.
I don't anderstand wery well english, so can you explain me how to do.

2008/4/30 shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> i found out something about gmail recently, it automatically gets rid of
> the quoted text and replaces it with "show quoted text"
> If more people used gmail, you would understand why it is easier to *GASP*
> top-post, but the easiest way to bottom post in gmail is to erase
> everything, which is hard.
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[shadowh511]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> shadowh511 wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:37 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Didn't I just say something to the same effect? Though I
> > wouldn't put in
> > the negative connotations in the descriptions.
> >
> > If they don't make the repo package, they could go on
> GNOME-look.
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> >
> > yeah, but if the themes are on gnome-look, how is the average user
> > supposed to know how to install them?
> >
> > I think that if the themes are rejected, they get packaged anyway,
> > and the user is given instructions on how to use the themes (wiki
> > page!!!)
> >
> > I have been using gnome-look a lot and i still get confused.  a
> > ubuntu client for gnome-look would be very nice.
> >
>
> Most themes come in a .tar and you simple drop them in the theme
> manager. I really don't see why that's hard. In Windows you have to hack
> files to get it to use 3rd party themes and tons of people figure it
> out. The same people with the drive to them windows are smart enough to
> figure it out on linux. Your grandma doesn't change themes.
>
> >
> > by the way, what is mark shuttleworth's email?
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> But know, it's just gonna get forwarded to Ken who is already watching
> this list. :P
>
> -Cory \m/
>
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>

That was close, I almost top-posted.
Ok, thanks for the insight about The God's, I mean Mark Shuttleworth's
ideas.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] mails and teams

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:33 +0200, GŸünther Beyer wrote:
Snip
>  Even more freeing than not focusing on getting accepted as default would
>  be forgetting about making it within a single cycle.

Yea, certainly - that's a good idea

But I think perhaps a 'community-themes-beta' might be nice... so
people can get some testing in?

Matthew Nuzman's suggestion of having a dark theme between alpha's
seems really sound...

Perhaps someone going to UDS could talk about that?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

shadowh511 wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:37 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> Didn't I just say something to the same effect? Though I
> wouldn't put in
> the negative connotations in the descriptions.
>
> If they don't make the repo package, they could go on GNOME-look.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
>
> yeah, but if the themes are on gnome-look, how is the average user
> supposed to know how to install them?
>
> I think that if the themes are rejected, they get packaged anyway,
> and the user is given instructions on how to use the themes (wiki
> page!!!)
>
> I have been using gnome-look a lot and i still get confused.  a
> ubuntu client for gnome-look would be very nice.
>

Most themes come in a .tar and you simple drop them in the theme
manager. I really don't see why that's hard. In Windows you have to hack
files to get it to use 3rd party themes and tons of people figure it
out. The same people with the drive to them windows are smart enough to
figure it out on linux. Your grandma doesn't change themes.

>
> by the way, what is mark shuttleworth's email?
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

But know, it's just gonna get forwarded to Ken who is already watching
this list. :P

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[shadowh511]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:37 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Didn't I just say something to the same effect? Though I wouldn't put in
> >  the negative connotations in the descriptions.
> >
> > If they don't make the repo package, they could go on GNOME-look.
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
> yeah, but if the themes are on gnome-look, how is the average user
> supposed to know how to install them?
> I think that if the themes are rejected, they get packaged anyway, and the
> user is given instructions on how to use the themes (wiki page!!!)
>
> I have been using gnome-look a lot and i still get confused.  a ubuntu
> client for gnome-look would be very nice.
>
> --
> Ubuntu FTW!
>

by the way, what is mark shuttleworth's email?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[shadowh511]

>
> Didn't I just say something to the same effect? Though I wouldn't put in
> the negative connotations in the descriptions.
>
> If they don't make the repo package, they could go on GNOME-look.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

yeah, but if the themes are on gnome-look, how is the average user supposed
to know how to install them?
I think that if the themes are rejected, they get packaged anyway, and the
user is given instructions on how to use the themes (wiki page!!!)

I have been using gnome-look a lot and i still get confused.  a ubuntu
client for gnome-look would be very nice.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[shadowh511]

i found out something about gmail recently, it automatically gets rid of the
quoted text and replaces it with "show quoted text"
If more people used gmail, you would understand why it is easier to *GASP*
top-post, but the easiest way to bottom post in gmail is to erase
everything, which is hard.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

shadowh511 wrote:
> yes, but i had an idea for a "rejected themes" package.  The desktop
> would use human, and if you installed this package "Extra Themes" with
> a description like "Here, you can use the themes that didn't make the
> cut" and give the user a set of instructions on how to apply the new
> themes.

Didn't I just say something to the same effect? Though I wouldn't put in
the negative connotations in the descriptions.

If they don't make the repo package, they could go on GNOME-look.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Who wrote:
>  > This is the most important point on which our opinions differ: I think
>  > that, for now, we cannot expect to be able to predict what the
>  > 'default' theme must be - there ARE no guidelines and it seems that it
>  > is NOT the job of the artwork team to make these guidelines...  Please
>  > see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
>  > - this was the last comprehensive attempt I made to get guidelines for
>  > default theme design sorted. As you will see, Kwwii answered many of
>  > the questions, but they really need to be asked again each release.
>  >
>  > I would argue that we shouldn't guess what will work  as a default.
>  > Pre Ubuntu would _anyone_ have suggested making brown a default? Or
>  > orange? If the decision was down to this team, Edgy could have looked
>  > very different, Dapper too. It wasn't then, it isn't now, and until we
>  > prove we can do quality stuff and work within the Ubuntu system, it
>  > won't be.
>  >
>  Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own
>  separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a
>  beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.
>  Although there are none/few guidelines for building a ubuntu theme,
>  there are human interface guidelines to go with.
>  What I'm trying to say is, everyone has a different taste, and that's
>  ok, but we shouldn't let people work on something that won't be at all
>  usable yet pretty.
>  I think ubuntu already has a lot of alternative themes to choose from.
>

Every USER has different tastes too - I think to assume we can make a
good default is ridiculous - we should be catering for a range of
needs. The default theme serves a very special need: To make Ubuntu
distinctive and also to be liked by Mark Shuttleworth - which is fine,
it is his distro, and he can call those shots, he has other
considerations to us that we might not know when designing.
+---+
|  What needs to be clear that *this team does not choose the artwork*  |
+---+

Despite being the 'Ubuntu Art Team' we have _never_ made a full theme
that was the default. I *strongly* believe this is because we have not
proved enough times in a row that we CAN do this. Really, to rally
around the default theme is _so much more likely_ to waste time than
making individual teams to make NON-Default themes. On the other hand,
if we make 5 themes that are GOOD ENOUGH to be default, package them,
get support for them, and support them through more than one release,
THEN we will have credibility when we ask to design the default theme
(or to make one of the themes already existing default)

'Human's Interface Guidelines' are, to be honest, not nearly good
enough for us to make something good with, and what the people that
are new here may not ever have personally experienced is that, in
releases gone by, it has been *one person* - Mark Shuttleworth, aka
sabdfl, who has decided what the default theme would look like. As an
example: In the Edgy cycle, after HUGE amounts of effort from the team
a professional designer not affiliated with the team was hired to
tweak things - only a fraction of our work (as I remember, the logo,
and a non-default wallpaper) was default. I know, as someone who had
spent HOURS and HOURS trying to make artwork to be the default, that
this is the most frustrating thing.

If you are absolutely certain you want to do this I _strongly_
recommend looking back at the email I sent to the list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
and getting some of those answers for this cycle.


>  >
>  Fun IS important!
>  I seriously think it would be a lot of fun if we'd all join forces on
>  this one project, satisfying a lot of contributors that take the effort
>  to sign up to the mailing list and make their wishes and ideas heard,
>  rather than picking one out of 5 projects.


We would not have to pick one out of 5, as Cory says - they would all
be packaged. Currently in Ubuntu there are just OrangeSun,
BlubuntuLook and (I think) TropicLook available. And I know Blubuntu
really needs an update. It would be brilliant as a way to cater to
more users to make more themes and make them easy to install. IF you
want to make a theme to the Human guidelines then do it, maybe it will
be accepted as default, but there are _no_ guarantees.

On the contrary, by working towards a single default we will have to
pick just one of the many talented designers to lead, and only ONE of
the great directions to move in.

One theme cannot contain the vision and ideas of all these members
that come along and take the time to make their wishes heard -they
would end up being asked to do design that was different to their idea
and

Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[shadowh511]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:21 PM, sylvain marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> WERY GOOD... I AGREE WITH YOU !
> A FORUM PLEASE !
>
> 2008/4/30 François Degrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Cory K. a écrit :
> > > Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > >
> > >> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  > >>:
> > >>
> > >> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > >> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> 
> > >> >  > >>>:
> > >> >
> > >> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > >> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> > >> >
> > >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >> >
> > >> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> > >> >
> > >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >> >
> > >> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT
> > >> YOU HAVE TO
> > >> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> > >> >
> > >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> > >> > 
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> > >>
> > >> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where
> > you're
> > >> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the
> > >> majority
> > >> of the list.
> > >>
> > >> -Cory \m/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still
> > don't
> > >> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to
> > >> post, reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
> > >>
> > >> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know
> > >> if I'm doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked
> > >> anybody what "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that,
> > so
> > >> please explain what it means.
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
> > >> --
> > >> Álvaro.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Don't reply with your post above someone elses.
> > >
> > > Best example is:
> > >
> > > A: Top-posting.
> > > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> > >
> > > -Cory \m/
> > >
> > > PS: I'm moving your text when I reply.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Top posting or down posting is a question that arises only when we
> > misuse the tools we have; in that case, we use a *MAILING LIST* for
> > something that requires a *FORUM*.
> >
> > Therefore, if God and the Angels of the Paradise can hear me pray,
> > please someone set up a forum where discussions could be easily read and
> > ideas easily tracked. Amen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
Sylvian, plz stop top-posting (i have changed my ways)

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Klaus Bitto]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:21 PM, sylvain marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> WERY GOOD... I AGREE WITH YOU !
> A FORUM PLEASE !
>

Oh no, please don't shout. Shout *and* top-post at once, even. :D (by the
way... are smilies deprecated in some way? I think they often help make
clear what you want to tell.)
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[shadowh511]

yes, but i had an idea for a "rejected themes" package.  The desktop would
use human, and if you installed this package "Extra Themes" with
a description like "Here, you can use the themes that didn't make the cut"
and give the user a set of instructions on how to apply the new themes.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> El 30/04/2008, a las 22:01, Cory K. escribió:
>   
>> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
>> 
>>> El 30/04/2008, a las 21:32, Cory K. escribió:
>>>   
 That's for Ken ans sabdfl to worry about. Maybe none of them. Being
 default should not be one's motivation.

 -Cory \m/
 
>>> I think that creating default theme is a great motivation. Otherwise,
>>> deviant-art contests would be completely nonsense. But if someone
>>> wants to develop the default artwork should follow Ubuntu guidelines.
>>> Where are they? I don't know, I don't know even if they exist. The
>>> only "official" "guidelines" are this ones [1], really?
>>>
>>> In my opinion, that should be enough to start creating something, but
>>> if we had more info that would be great.
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
>>>
>>> PD: the most important things that I see in that page are the pallete
>>> and the logo, but maybe having more information would help more.
>>>   
>> I'm sorry, but you and others just really haven't been listening to me
>> and others who have gone through this already. sabdfl doesn't know  
>> what
>> he wants 'till he sees it. He has never been clear. So there are only
>> ever vague guidelines to go by.
>>
>> So take out being default because it will only leave you pissed-off  
>> when
>> your work isn't picked. Just create. Come up with a vision and follow
>> through. Being in the repo should also feed your ego if you are such a
>> person.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>> 
>
> Ok, so I have not understood you. Now I see quite clear how is this,  
> let's see if It really is what I think:
>
> We must create artwork, just that. With no limits, don't force anybody  
> to follow guidelines, just create.

Exactly.

> Then sabdfl will se everything  
> we've created and then he will decide.

We can hope it will happen this way I'm sure Ken will show him anything
that stands out. Anything that still feels like Ubuntu. But in the end,
he might go with something Ken has done. Ken is paid to do this after
all. ;)

> If the artwork is not official,  
> it will be packaged.
>   

I have offered to package up themes that reach as complete a state as
OrangeSun and Blubuntu. If odds and ends are all that happen, there
might be a "community-artwork" package or something.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[sylvain marc]

WERY GOOD... I AGREE WITH YOU !
A FORUM PLEASE !

2008/4/30 François Degrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Cory K. a écrit :
> > Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> >
> >> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >:
> >>
> >> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> >> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 
> >> > >>:
> >> >
> >> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> >> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> >> >
> >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >> >
> >> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> >> >
> >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >> >
> >> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT
> >> YOU HAVE TO
> >> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> >> >
> >> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> >>
> >> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> >> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the
> >> majority
> >> of the list.
> >>
> >> -Cory \m/
> >>
> >>
> >> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't
> >> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to
> >> post, reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
> >>
> >> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know
> >> if I'm doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked
> >> anybody what "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so
> >> please explain what it means.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
> >> --
> >> Álvaro.
> >>
> >
> > Don't reply with your post above someone elses.
> >
> > Best example is:
> >
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> > PS: I'm moving your text when I reply.
> >
> >
>
> Top posting or down posting is a question that arises only when we
> misuse the tools we have; in that case, we use a *MAILING LIST* for
> something that requires a *FORUM*.
>
> Therefore, if God and the Angels of the Paradise can hear me pray,
> please someone set up a forum where discussions could be easily read and
> ideas easily tracked. Amen.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Really, we need to just get started

[shadowh511]

>
>
> Maybe you ought to reconsider that decision :)
>
> Who
>
> --
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> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

btw, that is the product of one of my random bursts of creativity.  I am
currently writing an essay to the powers that be about this matter.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

El 30/04/2008, a las 22:01, Cory K. escribió:

> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
>> El 30/04/2008, a las 21:32, Cory K. escribió:
>>
>>> That's for Ken ans sabdfl to worry about. Maybe none of them. Being
>>> default should not be one's motivation.
>>>
>>> -Cory \m/
>>>
>>
>> I think that creating default theme is a great motivation. Otherwise,
>> deviant-art contests would be completely nonsense. But if someone
>> wants to develop the default artwork should follow Ubuntu guidelines.
>> Where are they? I don't know, I don't know even if they exist. The
>> only "official" "guidelines" are this ones [1], really?
>>
>> In my opinion, that should be enough to start creating something, but
>> if we had more info that would be great.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
>>
>> PD: the most important things that I see in that page are the pallete
>> and the logo, but maybe having more information would help more.
>>
>
> I'm sorry, but you and others just really haven't been listening to me
> and others who have gone through this already. sabdfl doesn't know  
> what
> he wants 'till he sees it. He has never been clear. So there are only
> ever vague guidelines to go by.
>
> So take out being default because it will only leave you pissed-off  
> when
> your work isn't picked. Just create. Come up with a vision and follow
> through. Being in the repo should also feed your ego if you are such a
> person.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> -- 
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art


Ok, so I have not understood you. Now I see quite clear how is this,  
let's see if It really is what I think:

We must create artwork, just that. With no limits, don't force anybody  
to follow guidelines, just create. Then sabdfl will se everything  
we've created and then he will decide. If the artwork is not official,  
it will be packaged.

Sometimes it's hard to understand everything when english is not your  
language, but I think that now I'm getting it, really?

Cheers!


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> El 30/04/2008, a las 21:32, Cory K. escribió:
>   
>> That's for Ken ans sabdfl to worry about. Maybe none of them. Being
>> default should not be one's motivation.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>> 
>
> I think that creating default theme is a great motivation. Otherwise,  
> deviant-art contests would be completely nonsense. But if someone  
> wants to develop the default artwork should follow Ubuntu guidelines.  
> Where are they? I don't know, I don't know even if they exist. The  
> only "official" "guidelines" are this ones [1], really?
>
> In my opinion, that should be enough to start creating something, but  
> if we had more info that would be great.
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
>
> PD: the most important things that I see in that page are the pallete  
> and the logo, but maybe having more information would help more.
>   

I'm sorry, but you and others just really haven't been listening to me
and others who have gone through this already. sabdfl doesn't know what
he wants 'till he sees it. He has never been clear. So there are only
ever vague guidelines to go by.

So take out being default because it will only leave you pissed-off when
your work isn't picked. Just create. Come up with a vision and follow
through. Being in the repo should also feed your ego if you are such a
person.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

El 30/04/2008, a las 21:32, Cory K. escribió:
> That's for Ken ans sabdfl to worry about. Maybe none of them. Being
> default should not be one's motivation.
>
> -Cory \m/

I think that creating default theme is a great motivation. Otherwise,  
deviant-art contests would be completely nonsense. But if someone  
wants to develop the default artwork should follow Ubuntu guidelines.  
Where are they? I don't know, I don't know even if they exist. The  
only "official" "guidelines" are this ones [1], really?

In my opinion, that should be enough to start creating something, but  
if we had more info that would be great.

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official

PD: the most important things that I see in that page are the pallete  
and the logo, but maybe having more information would help more.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Hylke Bons wrote:
> Cory K. wrote:
>   
>> Hylke Bons wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
>>> separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
>>> beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.
>>> 
>>>   
>> As I've said, what, 6 or so times now in may threads, If people actually
>> come up with a complete, cohesive theme, I'll get it packaged and put in
>> the repos.
>>
>> OrangeSun and Blubuntu are examples of "complete and cohesive" themes.
>> That's the level of quality that should be strived for.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>> 
> But what will become the default then?
>
> Hylke
>   

That's for Ken ans sabdfl to worry about. Maybe none of them. Being
default should not be one's motivation.

-Cory \m/


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
>> separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
>> beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.
>> 
>
> As I've said, what, 6 or so times now in may threads, If people actually
> come up with a complete, cohesive theme, I'll get it packaged and put in
> the repos.
>
> OrangeSun and Blubuntu are examples of "complete and cohesive" themes.
> That's the level of quality that should be strived for.
>
> -Cory \m/
But what will become the default then?

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Hylke Bons wrote:
> Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
> separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
> beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.

As I've said, what, 6 or so times now in may threads, If people actually
come up with a complete, cohesive theme, I'll get it packaged and put in
the repos.

OrangeSun and Blubuntu are examples of "complete and cohesive" themes.
That's the level of quality that should be strived for.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Who wrote:
> This is the most important point on which our opinions differ: I think
> that, for now, we cannot expect to be able to predict what the
> 'default' theme must be - there ARE no guidelines and it seems that it
> is NOT the job of the artwork team to make these guidelines...  Please
> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
> - this was the last comprehensive attempt I made to get guidelines for
> default theme design sorted. As you will see, Kwwii answered many of
> the questions, but they really need to be asked again each release.
>
> I would argue that we shouldn't guess what will work  as a default.
> Pre Ubuntu would _anyone_ have suggested making brown a default? Or
> orange? If the decision was down to this team, Edgy could have looked
> very different, Dapper too. It wasn't then, it isn't now, and until we
> prove we can do quality stuff and work within the Ubuntu system, it
> won't be.
>   
Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default. 
Although there are none/few guidelines for building a ubuntu theme, 
there are human interface guidelines to go with.
What I'm trying to say is, everyone has a different taste, and that's 
ok, but we shouldn't let people work on something that won't be at all 
usable yet pretty.
I think ubuntu already has a lot of alternative themes to choose from.

> One final thing on 'wasting time'. I strongly believe the releases in
> which this team has had most effort result in least results are the
> times we've been obsessed by making 'default' work, designing a new
> default theme, etc.  We *just don't know well enough what sabdfl
> likes, wants, and is thinking*. When Kwwii comes with a clear spec,
> clears plans, etc, (and I really don't want to suggest it is his fault
> we don't have these!)  then we can rally around them and do some great
> stuff for a default theme. Until then, we need to work be our own
> bosses, and make our own decisions. If WE make a theme, make it
> available ('sudo apt-get install rocking-theme-number-3') then we'll
> have done a lot of good work, and had a lot of fun.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu
>
>   
Fun IS important!
I seriously think it would be a lot of fun if we'd all join forces on 
this one project, satisfying a lot of contributors that take the effort 
to sign up to the mailing list and make their wishes and ideas heard, 
rather than picking one out of 5 projects.

Coming to a default theme one way or the other, let's make sure we get 
the best of all themes where they fit, and leave stuff where others are 
lacking. :)

Hylke


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Really, we need to just get started

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 5:34 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking recently about an email that was sent out.  The sender
> (forgot who it was) listed some good theme mockups.  I know, for a fact,
> that we can have all of the themes be existing in intrepid.  As part of the
> add/remove programs, we add one more listing, "Theme Expansion Pack".  by
> having a theme expansion pack, we can add a lot of themes to each release.
> There will be no more "It can't fit on the CD" stuff, and have everybody's
> theme idea make it in.  We could have done a lot more with hardy than we
> did, and in intrepid, we need to bring ubuntu to its roots.  Lots of
> eye-pleasing themes.  Colorful backgrounds that help us spread our message
> of "Humanity To All".  We are the art team of the "Humanity To All" Linux
> Distribution.  We need to deliver our promise to the users.
>

Yes. Yes! With a bit of structure thrown in :)

> Union was an amazing idea from the beginning, so was TooHuman.  We can give
> our users as many themes as we can make.
>
> And no, I am not a motivational speaker.
>

Maybe you ought to reconsider that decision :)

Who

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Who wrote:
>  > There is _one_ default theme, and a lot of people with vastly
>  > different ideas, pulling in lots of directions.
>  >
snip
>  > If you think that not having something you did as default means the
>  > time is wasted then this is NOT a place you are going to find
>  > reqarding UNTIL we have proved to sabdfl that we can do great work and
>  > better alternative for a default theme.
>  >
>  > The style of work required to make something _towards_ being default
>  > is almost entirely opposite to the style of working required to make a
>  > complete and original theme in a short space of time.
>  The default will have to follow some guidelines. You can make something
>  that's very creative and artistic and the most beautiful thing in the
>  world, but it's never going to work as a default, and people know it.
>  That's an example of "wasting time". We have to be clear and honest to
>  each other what will not get in, can get in or is possible to get in
>  with adjustments (all of these have passed the mailing list). At the
>  time there is nobody that does this.
>

This is the most important point on which our opinions differ: I think
that, for now, we cannot expect to be able to predict what the
'default' theme must be - there ARE no guidelines and it seems that it
is NOT the job of the artwork team to make these guidelines...  Please
see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
- this was the last comprehensive attempt I made to get guidelines for
default theme design sorted. As you will see, Kwwii answered many of
the questions, but they really need to be asked again each release.

I would argue that we shouldn't guess what will work  as a default.
Pre Ubuntu would _anyone_ have suggested making brown a default? Or
orange? If the decision was down to this team, Edgy could have looked
very different, Dapper too. It wasn't then, it isn't now, and until we
prove we can do quality stuff and work within the Ubuntu system, it
won't be.

One final thing on 'wasting time'. I strongly believe the releases in
which this team has had most effort result in least results are the
times we've been obsessed by making 'default' work, designing a new
default theme, etc.  We *just don't know well enough what sabdfl
likes, wants, and is thinking*. When Kwwii comes with a clear spec,
clears plans, etc, (and I really don't want to suggest it is his fault
we don't have these!)  then we can rally around them and do some great
stuff for a default theme. Until then, we need to work be our own
bosses, and make our own decisions. If WE make a theme, make it
available ('sudo apt-get install rocking-theme-number-3') then we'll
have done a lot of good work, and had a lot of fun.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu

This is one of the things I am most pleased I did as part of this team
- and it was never default, it wasn't even on the CD (was in
Universe), but it was FUN and I didn't feel like I wasted a second.

Making something "creative, artistic and the most beautiful thing in
the world" (your words above) is NOT a waste of time IF we make sure
it is in Ubuntu - it doesn't need to be default. Spending hours making
a theme that we *think* fulfills guidelines we *think* exist (and so
not being as creative as possible) and then finding we were way off
the (no pun intended...) mark, as has happened in releases in the
past, IS a waste of time.


>
>  > So we have this
>  > curious situation where the only way we could expect to make something
>  > capable of being the new default is to _forget about being default all
>  > together_!
>  >

And so we come back to this :)

I think I'm getting blunter :S I do not mean to offend, but I feel I
have been here long enough to be able to comment with some accuracy.

Who

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Re: [ubuntu-art] sources of Ubuntu advertising

[Matthew Nuzum]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:09 AM, nicao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So sad news, and so strange because we try to make a free area. Never mind,
> I will do something similare for the french support and in french language.
> Thanks for your answer.
>

Just an FYI, the banners will change from animated to the shorter
height non-animated banner on Friday.


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newz2000 on freenode

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[ubuntu-art] Really, we need to just get started

[shadowh511]

I was thinking recently about an email that was sent out.  The sender
(forgot who it was) listed some good theme mockups.  I know, for a fact,
that we can have all of the themes be existing in intrepid.  As part of the
add/remove programs, we add one more listing, "Theme Expansion Pack".  by
having a theme expansion pack, we can add a lot of themes to each release.
 There will be no more "It can't fit on the CD" stuff, and have everybody's
theme idea make it in.  We could have done a lot more with hardy than we
did, and in intrepid, we need to bring ubuntu to its roots.  Lots of
eye-pleasing themes.  Colorful backgrounds that help us spread our message
of "Humanity To All".  We are the art team of the "Humanity To All"
Linux Distribution.  We need to deliver our promise to the users.
Union was an amazing idea from the beginning, so was TooHuman.  We can give
our users as many themes as we can make.

And no, I am not a motivational speaker.

Let's get going,

shadowh511
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Re: [ubuntu-art] mails and teams

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:33 +0200, GŸünther Beyer wrote:

> I would really like to see Hylke, Troy and Thorwil lead a team. Everyone 
> of these three has a clear vision and a unique style when it comes to 
> artwork. I've followed their comments to the list for the last 12 month 
> and I have the feeling, they know where to head next. Beat me if I'm 
> wrong, guys ^

Thanks, but I'm not in a situation where I can be sure that I can invest
serious work over the course of several months. There are frozen and
maybe some dead projects all around me, already.

If I would be, I still would have to ask for a briefing from the
higher-ups.

A team could build its own briefing, though.

Even more freeing than not focusing on getting accepted as default would
be forgetting about making it within a single cycle.

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thorwil's design for free software:
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Who wrote:
> There is _one_ default theme, and a lot of people with vastly
> different ideas, pulling in lots of directions.
>
> If different people with different visions lead the teams in separate
> _parts_ of the main theme we get no overall style, decreased impact,
> decreased polish
>   
Of course the team leaders must be well experienced in their area and 
usability and have the same vision for the most part. The leaders will 
work closely with each other and passing the vision on to the team 
participants giving guidelines and such.

> BUT if the people with vision run theme teams we get
> - cohesive vision, complete theme
> - Much greater richness in Ubuntu design
> - Proof that the people on the artwork list can create something
> complete and convincing
>   
I agree. We have to find the right people.

> If you think that not having something you did as default means the
> time is wasted then this is NOT a place you are going to find
> reqarding UNTIL we have proved to sabdfl that we can do great work and
> better alternative for a default theme.
>   
> The style of work required to make something _towards_ being default
> is almost entirely opposite to the style of working required to make a
> complete and original theme in a short space of time.
The default will have to follow some guidelines. You can make something 
that's very creative and artistic and the most beautiful thing in the 
world, but it's never going to work as a default, and people know it. 
That's an example of "wasting time". We have to be clear and honest to 
each other what will not get in, can get in or is possible to get in 
with adjustments (all of these have passed the mailing list). At the 
time there is nobody that does this.

Hylke

> So we have this
> curious situation where the only way we could expect to make something
> capable of being the new default is to _forget about being default all
> together_!
>
> Who
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Yet another ML vs. Forum thread

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 2008/4/30 Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for
> > example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.
> > Someone has to give clear direction, and not be afraid to approve or
> > discard ideas in an early stage. I think that's why it's been relatively
> > quiet on this list lately. So many have good and bad ideas have passed,
> > but because the lack of confirmation (and therefor motivation) will
> > drive people away. That's ok if something is a bad idea, but we have to
> > keep the good ideas around. As we say in The Netherlands: someone has to
> > "cut the knot". :)
> >
> > Hylke
> >
>
> Completely agree.
>
> --
> Álvaro.

Subteams would not measure success by whether they became default, but
by whether they made good work that was included in Universe.

There is no "Only one gets chosen" - all 5 teams start out with the
clear understanding they are makking work to be included in the
repositories, NOT as default.

Seriously - Epiphany devs don't give up because Firefox is default,
Claws-mail still rocks and gets used when Evolution comes on the disk,
and in the current environment, if you want to make big changes to the
way Ubuntu looks, you better not expect to do it through the default
channels. Once this team has proved itself as more than a
conversation, maybe that will change.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Cory K. wrote:
>
> > Hylke Bons wrote:
>  >
>  >> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for
>  >> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.
>  >>
>  >
>  > If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
>  > It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
>  > and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>  >
>  > -Cory \m/
>  Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
>  If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for
>  fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.
>
>  What I wanted to make clear is that it's a waste of time when a lot of
>  teams put a huge amount of time in their themes when we all know the
>  most are not going to make it. Instead I think it's better and "fairer"
>  to set up teams by purpose. Like an icon team, gtk team, wallpaper team
>  etc. So we are sure we get the best of all worlds and the team leaders
>  can elaborate with each other about the direction and adjust the styles
>  to each other and get one awesome style for 8.10!
>

There is _one_ default theme, and a lot of people with vastly
different ideas, pulling in lots of directions.

If different people with different visions lead the teams in separate
_parts_ of the main theme we get no overall style, decreased impact,
decreased polish

BUT if the people with vision run theme teams we get
- cohesive vision, complete theme
- Much greater richness in Ubuntu design
- Proof that the people on the artwork list can create something
complete and convincing

If you think that not having something you did as default means the
time is wasted then this is NOT a place you are going to find
reqarding UNTIL we have proved to sabdfl that we can do great work and
better alternative for a default theme.

The style of work required to make something _towards_ being default
is almost entirely opposite to the style of working required to make a
complete and original theme in a short space of time. So we have this
curious situation where the only way we could expect to make something
capable of being the new default is to _forget about being default all
together_!

Who

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Re: [ubuntu-art] sources of Ubuntu advertising

[nicao]

So sad news, and so strange because we try to make a free area. Never mind,
I will do something similare for the french support and in french language.
Thanks for your answer.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Hylke Bons wrote:
> Cory K. wrote:
>   
>> Hylke Bons wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
>>> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.  
>>> 
>>>   
>> If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
>> It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
>> and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>> 
> Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
> If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for 
> fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.
>   

It's the wrong motivation in the end because history here has shown that
very little of what has happened has ever gone into default. Regardless
of why this is, it's the way it is and won't change any time soon.

So take "stroking one's ego" out of the equation and just simple create
for arts sake.

But history of this list has also shown that people talk more than
create. So really, my trying to help focus things over the past 2 days
will likely fall on deaf ears as "the kids" always think they know
better. ;)

Oh well. Have fun. I'm done.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] sources of Ubuntu advertising

[Matthew Nuzum]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:52 AM, nicao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello art team,
> I am searching  for the source of the advertising on the main page
> (ubuntu.com). I would like to translate it for the french page
> www.ubuntu-fr.org. Anybody could help me? (or have I miss an answer?)
>
> see you Art Team

Sorry nicao, that was created by a design firm and the source was not
provided to us.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
>> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.  
>> 
>
> If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
> It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
> and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>
> -Cory \m/
Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for 
fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.

What I wanted to make clear is that it's a waste of time when a lot of 
teams put a huge amount of time in their themes when we all know the 
most are not going to make it. Instead I think it's better and "fairer" 
to set up teams by purpose. Like an icon team, gtk team, wallpaper team 
etc. So we are sure we get the best of all worlds and the team leaders 
can elaborate with each other about the direction and adjust the styles 
to each other and get one awesome style for 8.10!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Matthew Nuzum]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Yann Dìnendal
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme would
> be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not changed a
> lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of forgetting everything
> that has be done every 6 months ? There have been some wonderful mockups
> proposed, we should work on them !
>  Some good concepts :
>
> Gelatin
> Dark mockup
> Günther Beyer's work : here and here
>  Too human
> 2D panel icons : this thread and this one (where are the "2D icons in
> launchpad" ?)
> BasicIdeals !
> Union !!
>  What do you think ?

(my theories, not necessarily facts)

If a dark theme is going to be used in Intrepid or i+1 then it needs
to go into the dev version soon along with instructions on how to file
bug reports against software that breaks with a dark theme.

Kind of like the switch from bash to dash as /bin/sh. Theoretically
speaking, it's very possible that a dark theme could go into intrepid
for a significant portion of the dev cycle and then be pulled as beta
approaches and then re-instated for i+1 where it continues to mature
before being able to go live. I think a dark theme will reveal a lot
of broken programs and the solutions will not be as trivial to fix as
with dash.

Ftr, I think Günther's work[1]  with the 2d flat icons has a lot of
promise, but as who stated, it is a very ambitious plan for a single
release cycle. Still, if something was avail (even in rough form) by
alpha 1 or alpha 2 it would generate a lot of useful bug reports.

[1] 
http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
>> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.  
>> 
>
> If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
> It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
> and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>
> -Cory \m/
Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for 
fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.

What I wanted to make clear is that it's a waste of time when a lot of 
teams put a huge amount of time in their themes when we all know the 
most are not going to make it. Instead I think it's better and "fairer" 
to set up teams by purpose. Like an icon team, gtk team, wallpaper team 
etc. So we are sure we get the best of all worlds and the team leaders 
can elaborate with each other about the direction and adjust the styles 
to each other and get one awesome style for 8.10!

Hylke

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[ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Cory K.]

Hylke Bons wrote:
> Cory K. wrote:
>   
>> If people are putting work they would actually like to be considered on
>> the wiki (like they are supposed to) nothing will get lost. That's
>> usually is how it goes.
>>
>> This is why we need to get back to the "sub-teams" idea. People who like
>> a particular concept work together to get it done.  Only time will tell
>> if anyone actually has the motivation to get it done.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>>   
>> 
>
> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.
>   

If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Panels

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Wednesday 30 April 2008 12:01:46 Steph wrote:
> Álvaro wrote :
> > I'm not agree with making the panel bigger. Gnome has a problem with
> > upper panel, with large screens becomes unusable (it has a lot of unused
> > space). So in my opinion we should keep ubuntu panel in 24px.
>
> In this case, shouldn't we ask for a bugfix ? I mean, for us small screens
> users :), it gives Ubuntu a better look, much more modern. Seen Vista ?
> Icons default size is 128*128 I think, and many users have complained
> because this was really TOO large. Increasing from 6 pixels the upper
> gnome-panel would be enough. Can you post a screenshot so that we see this
> bug ?

I think that the default size of the panel is not directly an issue for the 
art team. It would be better to talk to usability people.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Yet another ML vs. Forum thread

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

2008/4/30 Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for
> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.
> Someone has to give clear direction, and not be afraid to approve or
> discard ideas in an early stage. I think that's why it's been relatively
> quiet on this list lately. So many have good and bad ideas have passed,
> but because the lack of confirmation (and therefor motivation) will
> drive people away. That's ok if something is a bad idea, but we have to
> keep the good ideas around. As we say in The Netherlands: someone has to
> "cut the knot". :)
>
> Hylke
>

Completely agree.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Yet another ML vs. Forum thread

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> If people are putting work they would actually like to be considered on
> the wiki (like they are supposed to) nothing will get lost. That's
> usually is how it goes.
>
> This is why we need to get back to the "sub-teams" idea. People who like
> a particular concept work together to get it done.  Only time will tell
> if anyone actually has the motivation to get it done.
>
> -Cory \m/
>   

I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen. 
Someone has to give clear direction, and not be afraid to approve or 
discard ideas in an early stage. I think that's why it's been relatively 
quiet on this list lately. So many have good and bad ideas have passed, 
but because the lack of confirmation (and therefor motivation) will 
drive people away. That's ok if something is a bad idea, but we have to 
keep the good ideas around. As we say in The Netherlands: someone has to 
"cut the knot". :)

Hylke


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[ubuntu-art] Yet another ML vs. Forum thread (was: STOP TOP POSTING!!!)

[Cory K.]

Hylke Bons wrote:
> Damián Vila wrote:
>   
>> Sadly, most of what you can read at this list are arguments or well 
>> intentioned comments. Sometimes some words of encouragement, but 
>> rarely something that really leads to significant progress.
>> 
> I think it will. There are lot's of great ideas on the mailing list (we 
> could have had a final theme already from everything that passed by), 
> but they disappear in your inbox.
>
> Hylke
>   

If people are putting work they would actually like to be considered on
the wiki (like they are supposed to) nothing will get lost. That's
usually is how it goes.

This is why we need to get back to the "sub-teams" idea. People who like
a particular concept work together to get it done.  Only time will tell
if anyone actually has the motivation to get it done.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Hylke Bons]

Damián Vila wrote:
>
> While I like forums a lot (specially over mailing lists), I have to 
> agree that ML have an advantage over forums: they are more readily 
> available than forums. Some people follow list from their jobs using 
> e-mail, and maybe some people don't have web access at all from their 
> jobs.
That sounds very unlikely, having mail and now WWW. Maybe it's a hint 
from your boss you should do your job. ;)

> Also, most people on the Art Team are used to it.
> But I have to say that, for the kind of work being done, even the 
> ML looks like unnecessary.
> If you have something to show, put it on the wiki, and just provide a 
> link to it for everybody else to see (if they already don't check the 
> wiki often.)
And that's exactly the two things that a forum does in one application.

> If you *really* want to know whats going on, attend the IRC meetings.
Of course the irc channel can stay.

> Sadly, most of what you can read at this list are arguments or well 
> intentioned comments. Sometimes some words of encouragement, but 
> rarely something that really leads to significant progress.
I think it will. There are lot's of great ideas on the mailing list (we 
could have had a final theme already from everything that passed by), 
but they disappear in your inbox.

Hylke



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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Yann Dìnendal]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
> 2008/4/30 Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> François Degrave wrote:
> > > What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we
> > > use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions,
> > we
> > > propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about
> > > the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail
> > is
> > > read, it's forgotten by the majority*.
> > >
> > > A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.
> > I agree here. A lot of ideas are getting lost in the bulk. I think a
> > forum will be more practical for our goal.
> > In a forum we can group good designs and ideas, create stickies etc. A
> > lot of the information is scattered all over the place right now.
> > I volunteer to set up a small forum if there's more support for this.
> >
> > Hylke
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
> So this is the correct way, really?
>
> --
> Álvaro.
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
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> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
> Yes, but only quote what you are responding to.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Damián Vila]

2008/4/30 François Degrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we
> use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions, we
> propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about
> the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail is
> read, it's forgotten by the majority*.
>
> A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

While I like forums a lot (specially over mailing lists), I have to agree
that ML have an advantage over forums: they are more readily available than
forums. Some people follow list from their jobs using e-mail, and maybe some
people don't have web access at all from their jobs. Also, most people on
the Art Team are used to it.
But I have to say that, for the kind of work being done, even the ML looks
like unnecessary.
If you have something to show, put it on the wiki, and just provide a link
to it for everybody else to see (if they already don't check the wiki
often.)
If you *really* want to know whats going on, attend the IRC meetings.
Sadly, most of what you can read at this list are arguments or well
intentioned comments. Sometimes some words of encouragement, but rarely
something that really leads to significant progress.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

2008/4/30 Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> François Degrave wrote:
> > What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we
> > use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions, we
> > propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about
> > the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail is
> > read, it's forgotten by the majority*.
> >
> > A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.
> I agree here. A lot of ideas are getting lost in the bulk. I think a
> forum will be more practical for our goal.
> In a forum we can group good designs and ideas, create stickies etc. A
> lot of the information is scattered all over the place right now.
> I volunteer to set up a small forum if there's more support for this.
>
> Hylke
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

So this is the correct way, really?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Yann Dìnendal]

>
> Union, as it stands, (below) i find a bit too soft and 'faded', as
> though it's been left in the sun too long. for this reason it may be
> especially difficult to use in strong-light conditions. it also looks
> far too dependent on compiz.
>
> nonetheless - and like it's predecessor above - there are one or two
> ideas in there that are interesting (like the window outlines):
>
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union#head-5451daa7f88b46eaca94a24cfb5f869238c575ab
>
I think Union's colors are beautiful ! But I agree with François, maybe it
is a little bit too monochromatic  and UI elements should get stronger
colors (titlebars, ...).


> Union is influenced by a mockup many people were enthusiastic about. it
> was of course far too unrealistic to be actually implemented:
>
>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273
>
> i thought the colour palette worked well, complementing both warm and
> cold colours without competition.
>
I think these colors are not as beautiful, but they could work very well on
a real desktop !


> one you didn't post, that i thought showed some promise, is:
>
>
> http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-72574609
>
> it's good to see a working brown beyond the 'caramel' many Ubuntu users
> are
> tired of..
>
Yes, the panels and tooltips brown is good (but I don't like the faded
orange-beige inside the windows...).

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[François Degrave]

>> I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme would
>> be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not changed a
>> lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of forgetting everything
>> that has be done every 6 months ? There have been some wonderful mockups
>> proposed, we should work on them !
>> Some good concepts :
>>
>>- Gelatin
>>
>>
>> 
>>- Dark mockup
>>
>>- Günther Beyer's work :
>> hereand
>>
>> here
>>- Too human
>>
>> 
>>- 2D panel icons : this
>> threadand
>> this
>>
>> one(where
>> are the "2D icons in launchpad" ?)
>>- BasicIdeals
>> !
>>- 
>> Union!!
>>
>> What do you think ?
>> 
I think most of those ideas are heavy, and many things that should be 
color-neutral aren't. The only concept which could be used to start from 
is the "Gelatin" one, even if it should be slightly modified to match a 
black and orange palette IMO, like in the "Element" mockup: 
http://lassekongo83.deviantart.com/art/Elements-VS-82691770

As Sumit said, we should keep main theme elements such as 
dialogue/application backgrounds, menubars, and possibly titlebars 
color-neutral, but give scrollbars and buttons strong colors (Ubuntu 
colors? Orange?) so that they visually stand-out.




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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Hylke Bons]

François Degrave wrote:
> What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we 
> use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions, we 
> propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about 
> the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail is 
> read, it's forgotten by the majority*.
>
> A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.
I agree here. A lot of ideas are getting lost in the bulk. I think a 
forum will be more practical for our goal.
In a forum we can group good designs and ideas, create stickies etc. A 
lot of the information is scattered all over the place right now.
I volunteer to set up a small forum if there's more support for this.

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[François Degrave]

Cory K. a écrit :
> François Degrave wrote:
>   
>> Top posting or down posting is a question that arises only when we 
>> misuse the tools we have; in that case, we use a *MAILING LIST* for 
>> something that requires a *FORUM*.
>>   
>> 
>
> I don't agree a forum is needed. Like you said. Don't misuse the tools.
> A forum is adding yet another place for people to follow. I personally
> won't make the effort. ML, IRC and wiki are enough.
>
> -Cory \m/
What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we 
use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions, we 
propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about 
the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail is 
read, it's forgotten by the majority*.

A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Dalton Miyabara]

> 
> But you don't have to quote the whole conversation... quote only the bit you
> are replying to, and you will only have to scroll 5 lines or so...
> 
> --
> Yann Dìnendal
> 

Ok, if everyone do this (quote the message) will be much better to read. ;)


Cheers,
Dalton


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:43:19AM +0200, Yann Dìnendal said:
> Hi,
> I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme would
> be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not changed a
> lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of forgetting everything
> that has be done every 6 months ? There have been some wonderful mockups
> proposed, we should work on them !
> Some good concepts :
> 
>- Gelatin
> 
>
> 
>- Dark mockup
>
>- Günther Beyer's work :
> hereand
>
> here
>- Too human
>
> 
>- 2D panel icons : this
> threadand
> this
>
> one(where
> are the "2D icons in launchpad" ?)
>- BasicIdeals
> !
>- 
> Union!!
> 
> What do you think ?

ok you asked ;)

of those you posted i think this is the strongest as a design, although
by my understanding it couldn't be implemented as a GTK theme:

http://bradwjensen.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Theme-Mockup-Dark-67903127

while i do like it, i'm not fond of the OS X-ish dock and i think it
would be wise to see this in a few different colour combinations,
probably a lighter version (although i far prefer dark themes). 

perhaps there are a few ideas in there that can be recycled..

Basic Ideals (below) looks far too complex i think. i especially dislike the
button colours:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals#head-7429cd9f17f5b2bc33153dd22a89ad2eff17b0e0

Union, as it stands, (below) i find a bit too soft and 'faded', as
though it's been left in the sun too long. for this reason it may be
especially difficult to use in strong-light conditions. it also looks
far too dependent on compiz. 

nonetheless - and like it's predecessor above - there are one or two
ideas in there that are interesting (like the window outlines):


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union#head-5451daa7f88b46eaca94a24cfb5f869238c575ab

Union is influenced by a mockup many people were enthusiastic about. it
was of course far too unrealistic to be actually implemented:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273

i thought the colour palette worked well, complementing both warm and
cold colours without competition.

one you didn't post, that i thought showed some promise, is:

http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-72574609

it's good to see a working brown beyond the 'caramel' many Ubuntu users are
tired of..

for what it's worth, i've been looking for time to get in there and
have a go at directly implementing my own ideas as a GTK theme but am
currently too busy with some upcoming exhibitions. so, here i am again
giving mere opinions rather than actually doing something about it!

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Cory K.]

François Degrave wrote:
> Top posting or down posting is a question that arises only when we 
> misuse the tools we have; in that case, we use a *MAILING LIST* for 
> something that requires a *FORUM*.
>   

I don't agree a forum is needed. Like you said. Don't misuse the tools.
A forum is adding yet another place for people to follow. I personally
won't make the effort. ML, IRC and wiki are enough.

-Cory \m/




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Re: [ubuntu-art] mails and teams

[Cory K.]

Günther Beyer wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I might be a little wrong, but this is the art-list, isn't it? We should 
> discuss artwork for the upcoming ubuntu, which should be a big step 
> forward. This might eventually result in a lot of work to be done.
>
> So
> 1. please respect the rules of the list an put your answers at the bottom.
> 2. if someone replies at a position that you don't prefer, IGNORE it, 
> please. Don't fire your guns and bother all the other readers. Be a 
> grown up and scroll up or down.
>   

You can't ignore it on these long threads that have happened over the
past few days. A few are fine but not every other post. ')

> Furthermore we all agree to get something revolutionary out, in the next 
> 4 to 6 month. But at the moment we are discussing email-styles and minor 
> details.
>   

Sure, we can agree but whether we can respect each other enough and work
together is the big question. ;)

> Every big project needs to start with a vision. Art-Teams might be a 
> good point to start. Those teams need some leaders ith a clear vision, 
> how the next Ubuntu could look like. Maybe I'm going straight to the 
> point and nominate three possible leaders:
>
> I would really like to see Hylke, Troy and Thorwil lead a team. Everyone 
> of these three has a clear vision and a unique style when it comes to 
> artwork. I've followed their comments to the list for the last 12 month 
> and I have the feeling, they know where to head next. Beat me if I'm 
> wrong, guys ^
>
> Maybe this is a little fast forward for some, but I think we need to get 
> things going. 3 month are a very short time. Anybody else for nomination?
>
> cheerz
> Günther
>   

I like the choices, but I thing it's up to individuals to decide. I
believe the nominees have rather busy schedules. Maybe something can be
done. Who knows.

-Cory \m/


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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Yann Dìnendal]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't
> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to post,
> reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
>
> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know if
> I'm doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked anybody
> what "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so please
> explain what it means.
>
> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
>
> --
> Álvaro.
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
Ok, so you are using GMail, as I am, so we use to keep all previous mails at
the bottom, because the way GMail does it is cool (between GMail users). It
folds everything that has been told previously and only displays "- Show
quoted text -". But for other people, they see aaall the discussion after
what you are saying
(see).
So if you quote people top-posting and people bottom posting... you are
quoting a big mess in non-chronological order...
So in mailling lists, we have to quote only the little bit we are replying
to, and reply below it.



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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[François Degrave]

Cory K. a écrit :
> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
>   
>> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >:
>>
>> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
>> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> > >>:
>> >
>> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
>> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
>> >
>> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>> >
>> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
>> >
>> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>> >
>> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT
>> YOU HAVE TO
>> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
>> >
>> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
>> > 
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
>>
>> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
>> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the
>> majority
>> of the list.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>>
>>
>> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't
>> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to
>> post, reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
>>
>> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know
>> if I'm doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked
>> anybody what "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so
>> please explain what it means.
>>
>> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
>> -- 
>> Álvaro. 
>> 
>
> Don't reply with your post above someone elses.
>
> Best example is:
>
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> PS: I'm moving your text when I reply.
>
>   

Top posting or down posting is a question that arises only when we 
misuse the tools we have; in that case, we use a *MAILING LIST* for 
something that requires a *FORUM*.

Therefore, if God and the Angels of the Paradise can hear me pray, 
please someone set up a forum where discussions could be easily read and 
ideas easily tracked. Amen.







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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Yann Dìnendal]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Dalton Miyabara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> OK, I´m bottom posting, but I would say that for me this is like "hell".
> First, because I don´t use Evolution, Thunderbird or
> Gmail. I only have webmail from my provider (Terra), and when I receive
> e-mails, it starts from the top, so every time I have to
> read something, like an answer from an old question, I have to scroll
> down.
> We should use the top posting to help people like me, that doesn't have
> any options to do bottom posting and reading unless
> scrolling down using the third mouse button or the scroll bar from the
> navigator.
>
> (Sorry for my poor english)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dalton
>

But you don't have to quote the whole conversation... quote only the bit you
are replying to, and you will only have to scroll 5 lines or so...

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[ubuntu-art] mails and teams

[GŸünther Beyer]

Hi all.

I might be a little wrong, but this is the art-list, isn't it? We should 
discuss artwork for the upcoming ubuntu, which should be a big step 
forward. This might eventually result in a lot of work to be done.

So
1. please respect the rules of the list an put your answers at the bottom.
2. if someone replies at a position that you don't prefer, IGNORE it, 
please. Don't fire your guns and bother all the other readers. Be a 
grown up and scroll up or down.

Furthermore we all agree to get something revolutionary out, in the next 
4 to 6 month. But at the moment we are discussing email-styles and minor 
details.

Every big project needs to start with a vision. Art-Teams might be a 
good point to start. Those teams need some leaders ith a clear vision, 
how the next Ubuntu could look like. Maybe I'm going straight to the 
point and nominate three possible leaders:

I would really like to see Hylke, Troy and Thorwil lead a team. Everyone 
of these three has a clear vision and a unique style when it comes to 
artwork. I've followed their comments to the list for the last 12 month 
and I have the feeling, they know where to head next. Beat me if I'm 
wrong, guys ^

Maybe this is a little fast forward for some, but I think we need to get 
things going. 3 month are a very short time. Anybody else for nomination?

cheerz
Günther

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Dalton Miyabara]

-- Cabeçalho original ---

De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Para: "Discussion on Ubuntu artwork" ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
Cópia: 
Data: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:02:15 +0200
Assunto: Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't know
> what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to post, reply at
> gmail or from Apple Mail.
> 
> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know if I'm
> doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked anybody what
> "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so please explain
> what it means.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
> 
> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >:
> > >
> > > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE
> > TO
> > > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> >
> > Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> > being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the majority
> > of the list.
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Álvaro.
> 

OK, I´m bottom posting, but I would say that for me this is like "hell". First, 
because I don´t use Evolution, Thunderbird or 
Gmail. I only have webmail from my provider (Terra), and when I receive 
e-mails, it starts from the top, so every time I have to 
read something, like an answer from an old question, I have to scroll down.
We should use the top posting to help people like me, that doesn't have any 
options to do bottom posting and reading unless 
scrolling down using the third mouse button or the scroll bar from the 
navigator.

(Sorry for my poor english)


Cheers,
Dalton




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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[saltedlight]

Please forgive me for saying it in that way. I really am sorry.
English is not my default language, but this is not stoping me to try to
use it, or to try to understand it using some internet tools/resources.
And if i do some grammar mistakes or i don't understand something this
is not an escuse...

And most of all we should try to focus on some art not on trying to
understand what is all about in those 50 mails that are not
„understandable”...

-- 
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-- 
() Campania Panglicii în ASCII
/\ http://stas.nerd.ro/ascii/


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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Mittwoch, den 30.04.2008, 14:02 +0200 schrieb Álvaro Medina
Ballester:
> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't
> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to
> post, reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
see http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette
which are the rules of all mailing lists running on the ubuntu
listservers.

the "Proper quoting" explains how to answer emails in a way that people
are able to read them in the right workflow.

ciao
oli



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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Cory K.]

Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >:
>
> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> > >>:
> >
> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT
> YOU HAVE TO
> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > --
> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
>
> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the
> majority
> of the list.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
>
> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't
> know what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to
> post, reply at gmail or from Apple Mail.
>
> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know
> if I'm doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked
> anybody what "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so
> please explain what it means.
>
> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
> -- 
> Álvaro. 

Don't reply with your post above someone elses.

Best example is:

A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

-Cory \m/

PS: I'm moving your text when I reply.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Jan Niklas Hasse]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't know
> what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to post, reply at
> gmail or from Apple Mail.
>
> You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know if I'm
> doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked anybody what
> "top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so please explain
> what it means.
>
> Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.
>
> 2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> >
> > Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >:
> >
> > >
> > > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE
> TO
> > > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> > >
> > > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> >
> > Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> > being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the majority
> > of the list.
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Álvaro.
> --
>  ubuntu-art mailing list
>  ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>

It means that your reply is attached to the bottom of the mail you're
replying to.
Unfortunately this isn't the default behaviour when using gmail's web interface.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Damián Vila]

2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >:
> >
> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE
> TO
> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > --
> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
>
> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the majority
> of the list.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> --
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> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>


Well, we could go on and on with this, but it's pointless.
I suggest you either ingore people who post replies at the top or simply
apply some kind of ban/filter on them.
I do personally prefer top posts and have all my clients configured in that
way, but respect the list preference and try to comply with it. I do ask you
to forgive me if I eventually forget to bottom post a message.
But being harsh or lost someone's nerves is not a constructive way to add to
a discussion or reach any goal, don't you agree?
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

I think that this is because english is not my language, I still don't know
what does "top posting" means. I do always the same I did to post, reply at
gmail or from Apple Mail.

You should consider that if I've always posted this way I don't know if I'm
doing something bad, so this is the reason why I haven't asked anybody what
"top posting" means. Now it seems that I'm doing that, so please explain
what it means.

Anyway, I don't think that I should be stupid for that.

2008/4/30 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> > 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >:
> >
> > ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> > IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE
> TO
> > DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
> >
> > STOP TOP POSTING!!!
> >
> > --
> > Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
>
> Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
> being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the majority
> of the list.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> --
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> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Cory K.]

Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> 2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >:
>
> ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
> DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> --
> Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> 
>
>
>
> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct 

Oh please. Don't go trying to invoke the toothless COC where you're
being just as rude by continuing to ignore the requests of the majority
of the list.

-Cory \m/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
> DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> --
> Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> --
> () Campania Panglicii în ASCII
> /\ http://stas.nerd.ro/ascii/
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>


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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Damián Vila]

2008/4/30 saltedlight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
> IF YOU ARE NOT THEN
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
> DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!
>
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!
>
> --
> Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
> --
> () Campania Panglicii în ASCII
> /\ http://stas.nerd.ro/ascii/
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
Sorry, but I don't think this is a proper way to refer to the list readers.
Regards,

D.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Cory K.]

saltedlight wrote:
> STOP TOP POSTING!!!

See. The fact that saltedlight here had to go to this shows that this is
not a team and there is no respect ATM. The majority of people who have
chimed in on this have asked top-posting to stop and sited very good
reasons as to why. The people who continue to ignore this are simply
being rude.

-Cory \m/

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[ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[saltedlight]

ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT??? OR ARE YOU STUPID???
IF YOU ARE NOT THEN

STOP TOP POSTING!!!

IS THIS SUCH A HARD THING TO DO???

STOP TOP POSTING!!!

I REALY DON'T CARE WHAT EMAIL CLIENT YOU USE; JUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
DO TO POST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE!!!

STOP TOP POSTING!!!

-- 
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-- 
() Campania Panglicii în ASCII
/\ http://stas.nerd.ro/ascii/


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

In my opinion, the best ones are Gelatin and Union.

2008/4/30 Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anton Kerezov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Snip
> >  I think I'm going for the Günther Beyer's work because it seems doable
> >  and possible in the time limit we have.
>
> I'm surprised you think this - as there is no GTK theme already
> similar it will be a big job, surely, so make something so different
> and have it polished in 6 months...
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Who
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>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anton Kerezov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Snip
>  I think I'm going for the Günther Beyer's work because it seems doable
>  and possible in the time limit we have.

I'm surprised you think this - as there is no GTK theme already
similar it will be a big job, surely, so make something so different
and have it polished in 6 months...

Am I missing something?

Who
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Panels

[Who]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Snip preceeding conversation
> I'm not agree with making the panel bigger. Gnome has a problem with upper
> panel, with large screens becomes unusable (it has a lot of unused space).
> So in my opinion we should keep ubuntu panel in 24px.
>

I agree that we _should not_ increase the panel size. We already have
48 pixels taken up by panel - which is loads.

If someone can show that we have a usability issue with the panels, or
that small panels are intrinsically less aesthetically pleasing then I
might change my opinion.

Until,things like the status bar, for example, work better with a
wider panel, we have to stay at 24px too.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Anton Kerezov]

В 11:43 +0200 на 30.04.2008 (ср), Yann Dìnendal написа:
> Hi,
> I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme
> would be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not
> changed a lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of
> forgetting everything that has be done every 6 months ? There have
> been some wonderful mockups proposed, we should work on them ! 
> Some good concepts :
>   * Gelatin 
>   * Dark mockup 
>   * Günther Beyer's work : here and here 
>   * Too human 
>   * 2D panel icons : this thread and this one (where are the "2D
> icons in launchpad" ?) 
>   * BasicIdeals ! 
>   * Union !! 
> What do you think ?
> 
> 
> (Sorry, I first posted from a wrong address)
> 
> --
> Yann Dìnendal

I think I'm going for the Günther Beyer's work because it seems doable
and possible in the time limit we have.

I'd like to add this links:
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes/GnomePanel
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GdmThemes

in general: 
http://live.gnome.org/Home?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=gnome
+theme&titlesearch=Titles


and wish everybody luck :)

Anton 


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Panels

[Steph]

Álvaro wrote :

> I'm not agree with making the panel bigger. Gnome has a problem with upper
> panel, with large screens becomes unusable (it has a lot of unused space).
> So in my opinion we should keep ubuntu panel in 24px.


In this case, shouldn't we ask for a bugfix ? I mean, for us small screens
users :), it gives Ubuntu a better look, much more modern. Seen Vista ?
Icons default size is 128*128 I think, and many users have complained
because this was really TOO large. Increasing from 6 pixels the upper
gnome-panel would be enough. Can you post a screenshot so that we see this
bug ?
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[ubuntu-art] sources of Ubuntu advertising

[nicao]

Hello art team,
I am searching  for the source of the advertising on the main page (
ubuntu.com). I would like to translate it for the french page
www.ubuntu-fr.org. Anybody could help me? (or have I miss an answer?)

see you Art Team
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Yann Dìnendal]

Hi,
I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme would
be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not changed a
lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of forgetting everything
that has be done every 6 months ? There have been some wonderful mockups
proposed, we should work on them !
Some good concepts :

   - Gelatin

   

   - Dark mockup
   
   - Günther Beyer's work :
hereand
   here
   - Too human
   

   - 2D panel icons : this
threadand
this
   
one(where
are the "2D icons in launchpad" ?)
   - BasicIdeals
!
   - 
Union!!

What do you think ?

*(Sorry, I first posted from a wrong address)*

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Design Now, Default Later.

[Anton Kerezov]

В 01:59 +0100 на 30.04.2008 (ср), Who написа:
> Hi all
> 
> I have written twice to this list in the last cycle hoping to help
> people distill ideas into productive work away from the default them.
> It hasn't really worked... As a team, I think our actual (polished,
> published) output is a tiny fraction of what we *could* achieve. We
> need to investigate why, and fix it.
> 
> Here are the reasons I think we aren't performing as we could. Add
> yours, tell me I'm wrong, suggest a way to fix them :)
> 
> 1. Design by committee is very difficult to get right: Dan Winship
> puts it nicely here:
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-February/msg00115.html
> so we will get further if we have _leaders who make decisions_ and
> _carry their vision through to completion_
> 
> 2. There are too many people and ideas here to make producing a single theme
> rewarding or sensible. We need not to get caught up with 'default' and
> work on great artwork. If we _did_ make one theme that everyone
> contributed to, it would likely suffer from the difficulties described
> in (1) anyway.
> 
> 3. The process for getting feedback about work that might be good as a
> default theme is slow and sufficiently ill defined to make working
> specifically towards 'being default' a dangerous and potentially
> frustrating thing. Thus, it is better to allow those with close
> contact with sabdfl to help the team on these aspects, but not make
> them the central focus.
> 
> 4. We need to meet hard deadlines and handle our packaging from the
> very beginning of the release process. If you make some artwork, and
> tick all the packaging boxes _your work will be eligible to be in
> Universe_. Don't expect the packaging to magically occur - we have to
> see ourselves just like any other part of the Ubuntu machine, we obey
> the same rules, use the same tools, and have the same goals.
> 
> As I've said before - we've solved these problems in the past by
> having 'theme teams'. Here is an email I wrote about these for the
> last cycle:
> 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-January/004821.html
> 
> I wanted to copy it in verbatim, but that seemed excessive. If you
> think I'm right about the 4 points above, please try and read that
> email and skim the responses.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why we didn't get more uptake? Are people only here
> to make the default theme?
> 
> It comes down to this: If you have an idea for a theme, YOU need to
> push it forward, YOU need to make it happen, YOU need to package it,
> put it through REVU, use Launchpad...etc. kwwii deals with the
> official theme and liaises with sabdfl, but ANY good theme can go into
> the repositories. After all, if the default theme was to change
> radically, it would need to be to a theme with proven success,
> packages and maintenance. NetworkManager was an optional extra before
> it was default ;)
> 
> So, I suggest we stop worrying about 'default' for now - and go and
> enjoy doing some great, original design. Make it work, make it
> available, and watch as people all around the world choose to use it!
> 
> It can happen :)
> 
> Who
> (Jonathan Aust
> in)
> 

I totally agree with Who and think that it's time we split into theme
teams. Each team have to make a background, mouse and widget theme
(sound theme will also be good).

So anyone that wants to help me with the animated background and further
with a new theme engine - please write to my email.

Anton


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 04:25:56AM -0400, coz DS said:
> If you guys using evolution are not getting the posts listed by time in
> order, then stop using evolution and switch over to gmail and the issue will
> dissapear! SOLVED!
>coz
> *

for what it's worth, i use mutt as my mail-reader and find it equally
difficult to follow threads with top-posts. 

i doubt you'll find many people switching to another reader - lest of
all one dependent on a browser - just to work around this (unnecessary)
problem.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Mittwoch, den 30.04.2008, 04:25 -0400 schrieb coz DS:
> mailing list for the ubuntu "Art" team. As much as i consider
> literature an
> art form, I don't ever recall literary  "*etiquette"  or knowledge of
> it
> concerning mailings lists, as being a requirement for membership!
but it is, the rules on [1] apply to *all* ubuntu lists regardless ...
please read them and stick to them ...

ciao
oli

[1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/lists/etiquette



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[coz DS]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Hylke Bons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry, didn't mean to send it 3 times. Something went wrong.
>
> Hylke
>
> Cory K. wrote:
> > Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
> >
> > Hylke Bons wrote:
> >
> >> Who cares!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
> >
> >
> >> Please. Ubuntu. Art.
> >> Let's get something done!
> >>
> >> Hylke
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
> >
> > -Cory \m/
> >
> >
>
>
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>




Hello all,
  I had to read this since of course  it showed up in my Gmail account.
What the hell are you people doing?
  I have been under the impression, for that last 4 years, that this is the
mailing list for the ubuntu "Art" team. As much as i consider literature an
art form, I don't ever recall literary  "*etiquette"  or knowledge of it
concerning mailings lists, as being a requirement for membership!
Since I dont use evolution for anything , I dont know how it is
displayed, but can understand the irritation if I had to scroll up and down
to get the proper order of content. That would seem to be a evolution bug
in my opinion, since all of the posts are timed.
   However , in the list of responses , there is only one person that made
sense was,   Hylke Bons,   and because of a glitch or some button not
pressed, or whatever the reason, his post shows up three times and that is
responded to with;  " *Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam." by
the same person concerned with top or bottom posting!  Anyone surprised??*
My response would have been, "Hylke, I am in total agreement!  What happened
dude?  Did you press the submit button three times? lol:  <<< THAT is
appropriate mailing list etiquette!
  We are artists, . . .hopefully.  . . . . I dont think there is room for
this kind of discourd.
If you guys using evolution are not getting the posts listed by time in
order, then stop using evolution and switch over to gmail and the issue will
dissapear! SOLVED!
   coz
*
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