Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
I would love a copy of that doc... please do send one my way. i also made a calculation based on that line from the KE report - surprisingly i got zero comments - although i consider it a very relevant issue... 25 atm at startup is much more at 500C... i would love it if someone could double check these calculations and perhaps include them in the details documents. using the estimate of 0.09 grams of hydrogen pressurized into a 50cc chamber with 5cc occupied by 50g of nickel (at 8.8g/cc) and 45cc unoccupied (for the hydrogen to fill) with a starting pressure of ~24atm at 20C the pressure will grow to ~64atm at 500C atm deg K deg C 24.22 293 20 25.87 313 40 27.53 333 60 29.18 353 80 30.83 373 100 34.97 423 150 39.10 473 200 43.23 523 250 47.36 573 300 55.63 673 400 63.90 773 500 72.16 873 600 80.43 973 700 105.23 1273 1000 (are my calculations correct ? - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en_GBhl=en_GBkey=0Aj441n89_v_VdHhXMHZ6MmlRWlh0RVJKYVBwd3B4amcoutput=html ) (note: KE say 0.11g hydrogen but they are ignoring the space that the nickel occupies - and the 50cc is an estimate anyway) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 00:43, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
I question the amount of nickel used. The one liter (1000 cc) Cat-E used 100 grams of catalyst. By proportion, a 50 cc volume should use only 5 grams of catalyst. The density of the catalyst is too high. It should be about 3g/cc since it is porous. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:33 AM, .:.gotjosh ene...@begreen.nu wrote: I would love a copy of that doc... please do send one my way. i also made a calculation based on that line from the KE report - surprisingly i got zero comments - although i consider it a very relevant issue... 25 atm at startup is much more at 500C... i would love it if someone could double check these calculations and perhaps include them in the details documents. using the estimate of 0.09 grams of hydrogen pressurized into a 50cc chamber with 5cc occupied by 50g of nickel (at 8.8g/cc) and 45cc unoccupied (for the hydrogen to fill) with a starting pressure of ~24atm at 20C the pressure will grow to ~64atm at 500C atm deg K deg C 24.22 293 20 25.87 313 40 27.53 333 60 29.18 353 80 30.83 373 100 34.97 423 150 39.10 473 200 43.23 523 250 47.36 573 300 55.63 673 400 63.90 773 500 72.16 873 600 80.43 973 700 105.23 1273 1000 (are my calculations correct ? - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en_GBhl=en_GBkey=0Aj441n89_v_VdHhXMHZ6MmlRWlh0RVJKYVBwd3B4amcoutput=html ) (note: KE say 0.11g hydrogen but they are ignoring the space that the nickel occupies - and the 50cc is an estimate anyway) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 00:43, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
Axil, I agree about 5g in proportion, but the KE report says: The central container seen in figure 3 has an estimated volume of 50 cm3 and it contains 50 grams of nickel. I also thought about the powder density/porosity and chose a number close to the full density of nickel metal, as i imagined those pores would/could be filled with the hydrogen gas. If I use your suggestion of 3g/cc then the amount of hydrogen at 25atm will be 0.07g and the pressure will increase in a similar way: 25.05 293 20 26.75 313 40 28.46 333 60 30.17 353 80 31.88 373 100 36.16 423 150 40.43 473 200 44.71 523 250 48.98 573 300 57.53 673 400 66.08 773 500 74.62 873 600 83.17 973 700 108.81 1273 1000 On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:15, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I question the amount of nickel used. The one liter (1000 cc) Cat-E used 100 grams of catalyst. By proportion, a 50 cc volume should use only 5 grams of catalyst. The density of the catalyst is too high. It should be about 3g/cc since it is porous. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:33 AM, .:.gotjosh ene...@begreen.nu wrote: I would love a copy of that doc... please do send one my way. i also made a calculation based on that line from the KE report - surprisingly i got zero comments - although i consider it a very relevant issue... 25 atm at startup is much more at 500C... i would love it if someone could double check these calculations and perhaps include them in the details documents. using the estimate of 0.09 grams of hydrogen pressurized into a 50cc chamber with 5cc occupied by 50g of nickel (at 8.8g/cc) and 45cc unoccupied (for the hydrogen to fill) with a starting pressure of ~24atm at 20C the pressure will grow to ~64atm at 500C atm deg K deg C 24.22 293 20 25.87 313 40 27.53 333 60 29.18 353 80 30.83 373 100 34.97 423 150 39.10 473 200 43.23 523 250 47.36 573 300 55.63 673 400 63.90 773 500 72.16 873 600 80.43 973 700 105.23 1273 1000 (are my calculations correct ? - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en_GBhl=en_GBkey=0Aj441n89_v_VdHhXMHZ6MmlRWlh0RVJKYVBwd3B4amcoutput=html ) (note: KE say 0.11g hydrogen but they are ignoring the space that the nickel occupies - and the 50cc is an estimate anyway) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 00:43, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
In reply to .:.gotjosh's message of Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:33:49 +0200: Hi, [snip] I suspect that Hydrogen wouldn't be absorbed by the Ni fast enough for it to become saturated when the Hydrogen is initially connected, so one might expect the Hydrogen pressure in the container to actually drop after the Hydrogen is disconnected. It may even drop back considerably. (The atomic volume of H in the nickel will be about 75 times less than that of a gas compressed to 22 Bar.) I would love a copy of that doc... please do send one my way. i also made a calculation based on that line from the KE report - surprisingly i got zero comments - although i consider it a very relevant issue... 25 atm at startup is much more at 500C... i would love it if someone could double check these calculations and perhaps include them in the details documents. using the estimate of 0.09 grams of hydrogen pressurized into a 50cc chamber with 5cc occupied by 50g of nickel (at 8.8g/cc) and 45cc unoccupied (for the hydrogen to fill) with a starting pressure of ~24atm at 20C the pressure will grow to ~64atm at 500C atm deg K deg C 24.22 293 20 25.87 313 40 27.53 333 60 29.18 353 80 30.83 373 100 34.97 423 150 39.10 473 200 43.23 523 250 47.36 573 300 55.63 673 400 63.90 773 500 72.16 873 600 80.43 973 700 105.23 1273 1000 (are my calculations correct ? - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en_GBhl=en_GBkey=0Aj441n89_v_VdHhXMHZ6MmlRWlh0RVJKYVBwd3B4amcoutput=html ) (note: KE say 0.11g hydrogen but they are ignoring the space that the nickel occupies - and the 50cc is an estimate anyway) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 00:43, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
Re: estimated volume Catalyst volume is important stuff. How true is it? Who made the estimate? Any idea? On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:35 PM, .:.gotjosh ene...@begreen.nu wrote: Axil, I agree about 5g in proportion, but the KE report says: The central container seen in figure 3 has an estimated volume of 50 cm3 and it contains 50 grams of nickel. I also thought about the powder density/porosity and chose a number close to the full density of nickel metal, as i imagined those pores would/could be filled with the hydrogen gas. If I use your suggestion of 3g/cc then the amount of hydrogen at 25atm will be 0.07g and the pressure will increase in a similar way: 25.05 293 20 26.75 313 40 28.46 333 60 30.17 353 80 31.88 373 100 36.16 423 150 40.43 473 200 44.71 523 250 48.98 573 300 57.53 673 400 66.08 773 500 74.62 873 600 83.17 973 700 108.81 1273 1000 On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:15, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I question the amount of nickel used. The one liter (1000 cc) Cat-E used 100 grams of catalyst. By proportion, a 50 cc volume should use only 5 grams of catalyst. The density of the catalyst is too high. It should be about 3g/cc since it is porous. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:33 AM, .:.gotjosh ene...@begreen.nu wrote: I would love a copy of that doc... please do send one my way. i also made a calculation based on that line from the KE report - surprisingly i got zero comments - although i consider it a very relevant issue... 25 atm at startup is much more at 500C... i would love it if someone could double check these calculations and perhaps include them in the details documents. using the estimate of 0.09 grams of hydrogen pressurized into a 50cc chamber with 5cc occupied by 50g of nickel (at 8.8g/cc) and 45cc unoccupied (for the hydrogen to fill) with a starting pressure of ~24atm at 20C the pressure will grow to ~64atm at 500C atm deg K deg C 24.22 293 20 25.87 313 40 27.53 333 60 29.18 353 80 30.83 373 100 34.97 423 150 39.10 473 200 43.23 523 250 47.36 573 300 55.63 673 400 63.90 773 500 72.16 873 600 80.43 973 700 105.23 1273 1000 (are my calculations correct ? - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en_GBhl=en_GBkey=0Aj441n89_v_VdHhXMHZ6MmlRWlh0RVJKYVBwd3B4amcoutput=html ) (note: KE say 0.11g hydrogen but they are ignoring the space that the nickel occupies - and the 50cc is an estimate anyway) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 00:43, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed
[Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011
Below is the latest version. Not many changes. The original is in .docx format. If anyone wants a copy let me know. The purpose of this is to have a handy cheat-sheet look up what Rossi and others have said so far. I am not trying to make sense of these claims, judge how likely they are to be true, or organize them into a model or theory. That being the case, I guess I will add a section for the calorimetry so far. In the future details about the calorimetry will be unimportant, but they come up frequently now. Esa Ruoho zapped this into: http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator:Rossi%27s_Hints Question for Mark Iverson: Do you recall the source of this claim? Date? Anything specific about the type of particles? The device produces 100 keV and 300 keV particles. (Rossi? – Iverson reports) - Jed NOTES ON ROSSI DEVICE This list is not comprehensive. These are items I thought are significant. Sources are sometimes shown in parentheses after the item. SL = Shirakawa List, Focardi = Focardi radio interview, April 5, 2011 Some items are marked “CONTRADICTION” at the end, where two or more statements appear to contradict one another. To avoid confusion, the term “turn off” here refers to turning on or off the resistance heaters used to control the reactor. “Quench” means stop the reaction itself. There may be important comments in Italian in SL that I do not understand. Calorimetry is not addressed in detail here, since it has been discussed elsewhere. All statements by Rossi and Focardi are reported here, regardless of whether I or others suspect they may not be true. Questions from me are shown in square brackets. DEVICE CHARACTERISTICS The volume of the 15 kW reactor cell is about 1 liter. The smaller 4 kW reactor cell volume is ~50 ml. During the Feb. 10 test, the 15 kW reactor was operated for about “a while” at ~130 kW (Levi). (It might have been ~18 minutes – source lost.) Smaller devices are safer to operate. The 1 MW (thermal) device will be made of many smaller ones ganged together. It was originally planned to be made up of 50 modules of 20 kW each (Rossi, 3/26/2010), then later ~130 10 kW units, where 30 were held in standby to replace or augment older ones as the power decreased. As of April 2011 they now plan to use ~300 units. Power density for a module as a whole, including the container, is 1 W/cm3. (Rossi, 3/28/2010) These cells (“modules” - Rossi) are designed to be connected in series and in parallel. (SL) Maintenance and operation is similar to that of a conventional boiler. (SL “normal boiler” comment) A 20 kW module has a volume of 20 L and weighs 30 kg. (Rossi, 3/26/2010) The minimum power of the e-Cat reactor unit is presently 2.5 kW, with the present design and engineering. Smaller units may be engineered in the future. These cells are made of stainless steel. In the mini-Rossi unit, the stainless steel cells are inside a larger copper pipe. Cooling water flows around the walls of the cell. The device does not produce gamma rays except for a slight increase over background (Rossi, SL) The device produced a large burst of gamma rays when it started up. (Celani) CONTRADICTION The device produces 100 keV and 300 keV particles. (Rossi? – Iverson reports) There is no ionizing radiation detected outside the reactor. (6/13/2010) The device produces no radioactive nuclear ash. There may be intermediate radioactive products. “We are not able to know which instable atoms are produced DURING the operation of the reactor, but we can analyze the composition of the powders left AFTER the operations: in such powders we do not find instable elements.” (SL) The device requires 1-cm thick lead shielding, presumably for safety. It was designed by Focardi. (6/13/2010). The control box contains 5 simple PLCs controlling the resistance heaters, and weighs ~7 kg. (Levi) DEVICE OPERATING PROCEDURES Minimal operating temperature is 400°C. (SL) The optimal operating temperature is 600°C. (Source unknown) H gas pressure in the cell is 25 bar (~360 psi) (Rossi? – Blanton) The effect is triggered with resistance heaters. There are five in the 15 kW device. The reaction is modulated with the resistance heaters. The resistance heaters are used at high power to trigger the reaction, then power is reduced to maintain the reaction. In the Feb. 10 test, 1000 W triggered the reaction, and 80 W maintained it. The power can be regulated continuously, from “0 through 100%” by adjusting the preheating input. (Rossi, 4/16/2011) Hydrogen pressure may also play a role regulating power. See Unanswered Questions (below). The reaction can be made self-sustaining with the resistance heaters turned off. This was done in a preliminary test with U. Bologna professors. (SL) However, this mode is not recommended because it is unsafe and it is difficult to quench the reaction. There is a “risk of explosions” (SL). The device is inherently safe;
RE: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011
RE: my source for Rossi's statement about seeing 100-300keV particles... Sure, here it is, on March 18: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3126617.ece Titled: And here are 36 more questions - with Rossi's answers Specifically, here is the QA: - Peter Ekström: In the fusion of a proton with Ni-58 a substantial activity of Cu-59 is formed. Cu-59 decays with a half-life of 82 seconds by beta+ decay. In the Focardi and Rossi article it is stated that: No radioactivity has been found also in the Nickel residual from the process. Considering the very high activity of Cu-59 that is produced, it is surprising that no activity is detected. Even ten half-lives after the end of a run the activity should be of the order of 1013 Bq, which is not only easily measurable (with a detector far away from the source) but also deadly for everybody present in the room! (Could you explain?) Rossi: No radioactivity has been found in the residual metals, it is true, but the day after the stop of the operation. In any case you are right, if 59-Cu is formed from 58-Ni we should have the couples of 511 keV at 180° and we never found them, while we found keV in the range of 100-300 keV. I think no 59Cu is produced, I suppose only stable Cu is produced from the transmutation of the isotopes 62Ni and 64Ni. I desume this from what we find after the operations. Your observation is correct. - Perhaps we should capture that whole QA session since it has numerous other answers by Rossi that are relevent... including yet another seemingly contradictory statement where he says the output heat is regulated by modulating the parameters of insertion of hydrogen we regulate the power of the E-Cat. But I've also recently seen on his website blog that he can control the temperature of the water by varying the (power to the) resistive heaters! Which is the right one??? Or, are they both accurate in that both hydrgen pressure and resistive heater power will control the reaction rate (heat output)... -Mark _ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:24 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 Below is the latest version. Not many changes. The original is in .docx format. If anyone wants a copy let me know. Question for Mark Iverson: Do you recall the source of this claim? Date? Anything specific about the type of particles? The device produces 100 keV and 300 keV particles. (Rossi? Iverson reports) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011
Huh. It does not seem there is much more we can say about this other than what I wrote: The device produces 100 keV and 300 keV particles. (Rossi? – Iverson reports) We can change the citation to (Rossi, NyTeknik, 3/18/2011) What does anyone think this means: Rossi: No radioactivity has been found in the residual metals, it is true, but the day after the stop of the operation. They don't look until the day after stopping the operation? Why would they wait? Perhaps I should change this item: The device produces no radioactive nuclear ash. There may be intermediate radioactive products. CHANGE TO: No radioactive nuclear ash is found the day after the machine is operated (Rossi, NyTeknik, 3/18/2011). There may be intermediate radioactive products during operation. Perhaps we should capture that whole QA session since it has numerous other answers by Rossi that are relevent... including yet another seemingly contradictory statement where he says the output heat is regulated by modulating the parameters of insertion of hydrogen we regulate the power of the E-Cat. But I've also recently seen on his website blog that he can control the temperature of the water by varying the (power to the) resistive heaters! Which is the right one??? Or, are they both accurate in that both hydrgen pressure and resistive heater power will control the reaction rate (heat output)... I looked carefully at that issue. My guess is that both hydrogen pressure and the resistive heaters are control factors. See: The power can be regulated continuously, from “0 through 100%” by adjusting the preheating input. (Rossi, 4/16/2011) Hydrogen pressure may also play a role regulating power. See Unanswered Questions (below). . . . UNANSWERED QUESTIONS Q: Do you control the rate of energy production by adjusting hydrogen pressure? A: Actually, it is more complex. You are asking confidential issues. Sorry. (Rossi, 2/16/2010) I think some of these contradictions reflect changes in Rossi's opinions or knowledge. The varying answers about whether some Ni isotopes participate more than others sound to me as if he has learned more about that subject in the last year. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
At 02:24 PM 4/19/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Below is the latest version. Not many changes. The original is in .docx format. If anyone wants a copy let me know. H gas pressure in the cell is 25 bar (~360 psi) (Rossi? Blanton) That's from the KE report : Startup. Prior to startup, the hydrogen bottle with a nominal pressure of 160 bars was connected for a short moment to the device to pressurize the fuel container to about 25 bars.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi Device new version 4/19/2011 -- H gas pressure
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: That's from the KE report : Thanks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: [...] You could also add this important piece of information: * * * http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360cpage=16#comment-0 Is it in general possible to regulate the power output of the E-cat in a continous way and if yes in what limits about? Is it done by regulating the H2 – pressure or can it be achieved by adjusting the preheating input? April 16th, 2011 at 10:36 AM 1- Yes, from 0 through 100% 2- Adjusting the preheating input Warm Regards, A.R. * * * Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
SHIRAKAWA Akira shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: Is it in general possible to regulate the power output of the E-cat in a continous way and if yes in what limits about? Is it done by regulating the H2 – pressure or can it be achieved by adjusting the preheating input? April 16th, 2011 at 10:36 AM 1- Yes, from 0 through 100% 2- Adjusting the preheating input Will add. What do you think preheating input means? The resistance heating needed to bring the sample up to the working temperature, I suppose. I will make moves and changes and upload a new version on Monday. The original of that document is in the latest Word format. If anyone would like a copy, let me know. If anyone would like to make a bunch of moves changes on your own, you should start with the Word document. I have to go through the ascii files Shirakawa uploaded. I will also upload the ACS PowerPoint slides from Takahashi, the Jones Beene discussed here. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Hi, Don't know if you all have handy tools for conversion at hand, but I personally like this one a lot (use it since several years). http://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/ Kind regards, MoB On 16-4-2011 2:47, Jed Rothwell wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: What is the pressure, by the way? I think he said 25 bar which would be about 360 psi. Ah. 24 atm. I thought it was low, like 4 atm. I guess it would make quite a bang if they exhausted it into the room and it ignited. (Why are there so many ways to measure pressure?) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
snipLook carefully at what Rossi says. In one response to a question, he uses the word 'catalysts'. Plural! Nickel, rust and copper?snip Let us get into the details on this point as follows: Under the assumption that the nuclear active area in the Rossi process is within large numbers of nanoscopic crystal defects in condensed matter, where exactly would that defect be found? Bothe nickel and NiO oxide have near perfect crystal structures that contain very few atomic defects. So the location of the nuclear active site is not in these compounds. The patent says that Copper can replace nickel in the Rossi reaction. Copper and CuO also have near perfect crystal structures that contain very few atomic defects. So the location of the nuclear active site is not in these compounds. Then the place where all the nuclear reactions take place is in the Rust (Fe2O3) where a large number of crystal defects exist. Loading hydrogen into Rust does not produce nuclear derived heat. An XO compound like NiO of CuO is also required. From the article “Deuterium and Palladium Not Required” By Steven B. Krivit “Why nickel? According to Piantelli, it has something to do with the electronic structure. He said it's different for nickel. Palladium works, but it's not as good.” IMHO, the Mott insulators: NiO and CuO produce intense electrostatic fields when these nanoparticles come in surface contact with the Fe2O3 nanoparticles. It is this electrostatic field that catalyzes the nuclear process in the crystal defects within the Fe2O2 crystal structure of the nanoparticle. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: If the system is in a runaway condition, I'm sure there is enough H2 in the reactor to take it to meltdown. Look at the configuration, the H2 is injected into the reactor at 300 psi and likely shut off. Simply depressurizing the reactor by opening the valve to release the H2 pressure might not work. By all our estimates, H2 has saturated the Ni and will not leave the metal quickly before a meltdown. No, I really think you have to pollute the reaction with N2; which, by the way, lends credence to Peter Gluck's theory that it is polluting gases which prevent these experiments from showing the same results that Rossi has seen. Clean and bake your metal in a vacuum and seal it in the reactor. Then inject the H2. I think that will give you heat. It might be the Fe2O3 which makes it take off like an ECat. It might be the Cu. It might be both. Look carefully at what Rossi says. In one response to a question, he uses the word 'catalysts'. Plural! Nickel, rust and copper? T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Let us get into the details on this point as follows: Under the assumption that the nuclear active area in the Rossi process is within large numbers of nanoscopic crystal defects in Rust and NiO is somehow the controlling mechanism, what can that mechanism be? The nuclear heat comes from Fe2O3. To transfer that nuclear heat to the stainless steel reaction vessel, the Fe2O3 must be in surface contact with the wall of this vessel. The Adjusting the preheating input adjusts the power output of the reactor. How can this be. The NiO must be in surface contact with the preheating input. The NiO must not be in surface contact with the Fe2O3 since the nuclear heat produced by Fe2O3 does not effect the NiO. The must be a space between the Fe2O3 and the NiO and that space is filled with hydrogen an isolating material. When preheating input is applied to the NiO, its production of electrostatic force increases. This force travels across the isolating gap to the Fe2O3 and increases the nuclear reaction. A decrease in the preheating input reduces the electrostatic force impinging on the nuclear active areas in the Fe2O3. This reduces the nuclear reaction. Preheating input changes electrostatic force from 0 to 100%. This is the adjusting mechanism. If the two catalysts were physically mixed the reaction would be self sustaining. Reducing the pressure of the hydrogen increases the insulation value between the Fe2O3 and the NiO thereby reducing nuclear activity, since some heat travels across the insulation gap from the Fe2O3 to the NiO thereby supplementing the preheating input. This is all very ingenious! On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:41 AM, SHIRAKAWA Akira shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: [...] You could also add this important piece of information: * * * http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360cpage=16#comment-0 Is it in general possible to regulate the power output of the E-cat in a continous way and if yes in what limits about? Is it done by regulating the H2 – pressure or can it be achieved by adjusting the preheating input? April 16th, 2011 at 10:36 AM 1- Yes, from 0 through 100% 2- Adjusting the preheating input Warm Regards, A.R. * * * Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
I do not understand this one. Can anybody help? Thomas Blakeslee http://www.clrlight.org/ April 14th, 2011 at 7:03 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=3#comment-33059 I’m confused about the caption on the closeup picture on the NyTeknik article on the 4.5 KW demo. It says “Close view of the main resistor surrounding the copper tube, which in turn surrounds the steel reactor.” How can the resistor heat the nickel up to 500C through the water? --- Andrea Rossi April 14th, 2011 at 8:09 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=3#comment-33068 Dear Mr Thomas Blakeslee: To answer to your question I should give you information regarding the design of the reactor. I can’t. Warm regards, A.R. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us get into the details on this point as follows: Under the assumption that the nuclear active area in the Rossi process is within large numbers of nanoscopic crystal defects in Rust and NiO is somehow the controlling mechanism, what can that mechanism be? The nuclear heat comes from Fe2O3. To transfer that nuclear heat to the stainless steel reaction vessel, the Fe2O3 must be in surface contact with the wall of this vessel. The Adjusting the preheating input adjusts the power output of the reactor. How can this be. The NiO must be in surface contact with the preheating input. The NiO must not be in surface contact with the Fe2O3 since the nuclear heat produced by Fe2O3 does not effect the NiO. The must be a space between the Fe2O3 and the NiO and that space is filled with hydrogen an isolating material. When preheating input is applied to the NiO, its production of electrostatic force increases. This force travels across the isolating gap to the Fe2O3 and increases the nuclear reaction. A decrease in the preheating input reduces the electrostatic force impinging on the nuclear active areas in the Fe2O3. This reduces the nuclear reaction. Preheating input changes electrostatic force from 0 to 100%. This is the adjusting mechanism. If the two catalysts were physically mixed the reaction would be self sustaining. Reducing the pressure of the hydrogen increases the insulation value between the Fe2O3 and the NiO thereby reducing nuclear activity, since some heat travels across the insulation gap from the Fe2O3 to the NiO thereby supplementing the preheating input. This is all very ingenious! On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:41 AM, SHIRAKAWA Akira shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: [...] You could also add this important piece of information: * * * http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360cpage=16#comment-0 Is it in general possible to regulate the power output of the E-cat in a continous way and if yes in what limits about? Is it done by regulating the H2 – pressure or can it be achieved by adjusting the preheating input? April 16th, 2011 at 10:36 AM 1- Yes, from 0 through 100% 2- Adjusting the preheating input Warm Regards, A.R. * * * Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
NOTES ON ROSSI DEVICE [This was previously titled What Rossi Says list) This list is not comprehensive. These are items I thought are significant. Sources are sometimes shown in parentheses after the item. SL = Shirakawa List, Focardi = Focardi radio interview, April 5, 2011 Some items are marked “CONTRADICTION” at the end, where two or more statements appear to contradict one another. To avoid confusion, the term “turn off” here refers to turning on or off the resistance heaters used to control the reactor. “Quench” means stop the reaction itself. There may be important comments in Italian in SL that I do not understand. Calorimetry is not addressed in detail here, since it has been discussed elsewhere. All statements by Rossi and Focardi are reported here, regardless of whether I or others suspect they may not be true. Questions from me are shown in square brackets. DEVICE CHARACTERISTICS The volume of the 15 kW reactor cell is about 1 liter. The smaller 4 kW reactor cell volume is ~50 ml. During the Feb. 10 test, the 15 kW reactor was operated for about 18 min. at ~130 kW. Smaller devices are safer to operate. The 1 MW (thermal) device will be made of many smaller ones ganged together. It was originally planned to be made up of ~130 10 kW units, where 30 were held in standby to replace or augment older ones as the power decreased. They now plan to use ~300 units. These cells (“modules” - Rossi) are designed to be connected in series and in parallel. (SL) Maintenance and operation is similar to that of a conventional boiler. (SL “normal boiler” comment) The minimum power of the e-Cat reactor unit is presently 2.5 kW, with the present design and engineering. Smaller units may be engineered in the future. These cells are made of stainless steel. In the mini-Rossi unit, the stainless steel cells are inside a larger copper pipe. Cooling water flows around the walls of the cell. The device does not produce gamma rays except for a slight increase over background (Rossi, SL) The device produced a large burst of gamma rays when it started up. (Celani) CONTRADICTION The device produces no radioactive nuclear ash. There may be intermediate radioactive products. “We are not able to know which instable atoms are produced DURING the operation of the reactor, but we can analyze the composition of the powders left AFTER the operations: in such powders we do not find instable elements.” (SL) The device requires 1-cm thick lead shielding, presumably for safety. DEVICE OPERATING PROCEDURES Minimal operating temperature is 400°C. (SL) The optimal operating temperature is 600°C. [RIGHT?] [WHAT IS THE PRESSURE?] The effect is triggered with resistance heaters. There are five in the 15 kW device. The reaction is modulated with the resistance heaters. The resistance heaters are high-powered trigger the reaction and then hours reduced to maintain it. The reaction can be made self-sustaining with the resistance heaters turned off. This was done in a preliminary test with U. Bologna professors. (SL) However, this mode is not recommended because it is unsafe and it is difficult to quench the reaction. There is a “risk of explosions” (SL). The device is inherently safe; “if you violate [safety rules] the reactor [quenches].” (SL) CONTRADICTION To ensure safety, Rossi prefers the control electronics be externally powered rather than powered by the device itself with a thermoelectric or a steam turbine generator. The input output ratio has been as high as 200 in recent tests; 80 W in 16 kW out, sustained, and it went over 1600 during the 130 kW burst. The ratio is “always over 6” (SL). (Footnote. I do not think the input/output ratio is meaningful for this device – Rothwell) The device will need maintenance and new nickel catalyst every six months. Picograms of Ni and H are consumed (SL) There are 100 g of nickel in the larger cell. There are “several milligrams” of Ni in the larger cell but “not all of the nickel in the reactor reacts.” (SL) [Could this mean nuclear active material?] The actual consumption to make 10 kW is about 0.1 g of nickel and 0.01 g of hydrogen per hour. This is the “mass of Ni that you need in the reactor” but not all of this actually reacts. “The efficiency is very low, due to the probabilistic issue.” (SL). The Ni lattice can be disrupted to a certain extent. (SL: “Does the integrity of the Ni lattice have to be maintained ? do damage, disruption, and melting impede the results? No, it is not necessary within certain limits.”) The effect can be quenched with the following methods: Where hydrogen is injected with electrolysis, stop electrolysis to cut off the supply of hydrogen. (Focardi) De-gas the cell. Inject N to displace the H. Increase the flow rate to cool the catalyst. (This may have to be done quickly, to induce a thermal shock – Rothwell) A small percentage (2% to 3%) of deuterium will quench the reaction. NICKEL CATALYST CHARACTERISTICS The
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: NOTES ON ROSSI DEVICE [...] Good job! I'll try collecting other questions/answers from various posts in Rossi's blog. I'll post them in this thread unsorted. By the way, I think the question/answer date is important and should not be taken out of context. The E-Cat apparently continuously evolved over time since January. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
The proper way to organize this type of data is through the use of a relational database. That is how systems engineers do it. The primary key would be the time of origination. The secondary keys could be calorimetry, nano-particle, ash product, isotopic ratio… MS access would be the simplest. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 5:58 PM, SHIRAKAWA Akira shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: NOTES ON ROSSI DEVICE [...] Good job! I'll try collecting other questions/answers from various posts in Rossi's blog. I'll post them in this thread unsorted. By the way, I think the question/answer date is important and should not be taken out of context. The E-Cat apparently continuously evolved over time since January. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: The 1 MW (thermal) device will be made of many smaller ones ganged together. It was originally planned to be made up of ~130 10 kW units, where 30 were held in standby to replace or augment older ones as the power decreased. They now plan to use ~300 units. Originally there were even less units planned: * * * Andrea Rossi March 26th, 2010 at 9:36 AM Yes, we are making a 1 MW power reactor constituted by 50 modules of 20 kw each[...] * * * Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-15 23:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: The effect can be quenched with the following methods: [...] Inject N to displace the H. Recently he added: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=64 * * * 2. I’ve read that you once had to stop the machine by insufflating nitrogen and that the E-cat has to be steered or controlled by electricity. What would happen if there’s a break in the supply of electricity ? would it then be necessary to stop the machine, and if so, how? Is there a need for an alternative supply of electricity to step in, in form of a (rechargeable) backup battery, in such situations? And would it be a safety step to replace the hydrogen tube with a nitrogen ditto in order to stop the process by an automatic valve which opens up when needed ? for ex if the machine becomes overheated? Andrea Rossi March 30th, 2011 at 7:00 PM Dear Mr Ake Ostlund: 1- when the powder has to be changed, as you correctly suggest, the hydrogen tube has to be disconnected 2-I neve insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsecally safe Warm Regards, * * * Ok, I'll post all of these in a list later, not going to create a new post each time, although I'm tempted. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The proper way to organize this type of data is through the use of a relational database. That is how systems engineers do it. Great idea! Are you going to do that for us? Thanks! Add to the list: DEVICE CHARACTERISTICS The control box contains 5 simple PLCs, and weighs ~7 kg. (Levi) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Rossi wrote: 2-I never insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsically safe Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Inject N to displace the H. This was either a misunderstanding or he has retracted it. It is not important. The purpose of the list is to present an up-to-date description of what Rossi now thinks, not to hold him to previous statements or find out how often he has changed his mind. The statements marked CONTRADICTION are usually between Rossi and someone else, although in one case it was Rossi versus Rossi. We will leave that as is, unless he makes a definitive statement one way or the other. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-16 00:37, Jed Rothwell wrote: This was either a misunderstanding or he has retracted it. It is not important. The purpose of the list is to present an up-to-date description of what Rossi now thinks, not to hold him to previous statements or find out how often he has changed his mind. Fair enough. I'm not sure if I will be able to send them, but what follows is a series of text files containing raw question/answers I found relevant from Rossi's blog up to the JANUARY 15th FOCARDI AND ROSSI PRESS CONFERENCE post, which will take alone some dedicated work to process entirely (you used part of that for the list in the opening post). By the way, what caught my attention in particular is that it appears that the reactor shielding is made of lead and boron, not lead only, but that might be outdated information. Cheers, S.A. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=53 Andrea Rossi April 16th, 2010 at 8:27 AM Gent. Sig. Luca: Se non ci fossero radiazioni gamma, non potrebbe funzionare il reattore: lfenergia si ottiene proprio in virtuf della generazione di raggi gamma e di altre reazioni descritte nel mio brevetto. Quello che ha detto il Prof. Focardi, che in base ad un contratto che abbiamo con lfUniversitaf di Bologna ha controllato le radiazione residue nellfambiente, ef, appunto, che non ci sono radiazioni residue fuori dal reattore. Tali misurazioni, ovviamente, sono state necessarie al fine di certificare la sicurezza dellf reattore sia sotto il profilo della protezione individuale, sia della protezione ambientale. Il grosso vantaggio di questo apparato ef che non usa materiale radioattivo e non lascia residui radioattivi, ne come rifiuti solidi, ne come emissioni ambientali. La ringrazio per la Sua apprezzata attenzione e Le porgo cordiali saluti, Andrea Rossi *** Giancarlo Rossi June 19th, 2010 at 3:49 PM Gentile Prof. Andrea Rossi Sono un semplice appassionato, vorrei porre qualche domandac 1) State usando qualche isotopo particolarmente pesante del Nichel (Nichel-64 che dicono costi 100.000 dollari per 5 grammi?) 2) State usando DEUTERIO oppure se ho ben capito IDROGENO ? 3) Utilizzate forse il LITIO come gcatalizzatoreh della reazione. 4) ATTENZIONE ALLE LOBBY DEL PETROLIO E DEL CARBONE: http://pesn.com/2010/06/18/9501662_water-fuel-research_Explosion_kills_inventor/ Giancarlo Rossi (Ma non era meglio se svolgeva queste ricerche in Giappone o in Cina, paesi assolutamente privi di risorse e di lobby assassine?) Andrea Rossi June 20th, 2010 at 2:52 AM Gent. Sig. Giancarlo Rossi, Grazie per la Sua attenzione; ecco le risposte: 1-No, usiamo Ni nella sua composizione isotopica naturale 2-Idrogeno 3-Non posso dare informazioni in merito ai catalizzatori 4- Nella mia vita ne ho passate di tali, che ormai non mi impressiono piu di niente 5- Ho la fortuna di potere lavorare negli USA, e Le assicuro che, almeno dal mio punto di vista, non esiste Paese migliore al mondo Cordiali saluti, Andrea Rossi ** Andrea Rossi April 6th, 2011 at 5:43 AM Dear Mr M: We have contacts in the whole world, but our commercial operations will begin in November, after the start up of our 1 MW plant in Greece. Thank you for your kind considerations, Warm regards, A.R. Warm Regards, A.R. *** http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=58 http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=59http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=62 John Fisher March 16th, 2010 at 12:29 PM As I understand it you can control the rate of energy production in the nickel by adjusting the hydrogen pressure, and this method was used to maintain constant output power during the periods of energy measurement. Is this correct? Andrea Rossi March 16th, 2010 at 2:16 PM Actually, is more complex. You are asking confidential issues. Sorry. A.R. *** Andrea Rossi March 26th, 2010 at 9:28 AM A module with a power of 20 kw has a volume of 20 liters and weights 30 kg. Bigger powers are made with more modules, because for safety reasons I prefer to add up series and parallels with the cooling fluids , not with the reactors, to maintain small energy reactors. Andrea Rossi *** Andrea Rossi March 26th, 2010 at 9:36 AM Yes, we are making a 1 MW power reactor constituted by 50 modules of 20 kw each: I prefer for safety reasons to add series and parallels with the cooling fluids, not making bigger reactors, to maintain small and well tested reactors which we learnt perfectly to control. Soon wefll put in operation the first section of the 1MW plant, in the USA and when we will have everything well in operation we will communicate the data. We want not to make press conferences if we have not an industrial plant operated not by us, as it has been up to now, but by the very high level
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi wrote: 2-I never insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsically safe Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. T attachment: January_Demo.jpg
RE: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Yes. Do not delete this ! It is important. Add this one to the growing 'contradictions' list, because I am sure that at one time he said he can operate the device for a period of time with no electrical input. How can it then be possible to shut down automatically with no current unless you flush with N ? ... and Terry is correct: the tank is labeled as nitrogen. Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: Rossi wrote: 2-I never insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsically safe Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? Not likely. I think his H2 (large) tank is shown in Fig. 10 here: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/docs/2011Essen-Kullander3April.pdf T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Between then and now, Rossi may have come up with a way to make his catalyst(s) sub-critical, that is, always requiring some external heat to be input as a control on the output heat production. Provarication may not be an issue here. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes. Do not delete this ! It is important. Add this one to the growing 'contradictions' list, because I am sure that at one time he said he can operate the device for a period of time with no electrical input. How can it then be possible to shut down automatically with no current unless you flush with N ? ... and Terry is correct: the tank is labeled as nitrogen. Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: Rossi wrote: 2-I never insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsically safe Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On 2011-04-16 01:36, Jones Beene wrote: Yes. Do not delete this ! It is important. Add this one to the growing 'contradictions' list, because I am sure that at one time he said he can operate the device for a period of time with no electrical input. How can it then be possible to shut down automatically with no current unless you flush with N ? ... and Terry is correct: the tank is labeled as nitrogen. Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? By shutting down hydrogen supply, as Focardi said in his latest interview. After hydrogen pressure decreases by a certain amount the reactor supposedly stops working by itself. P.S.: By the way, did my other email containing a long list of questions and answers by Rossi reach the group? Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Jed: You forgot to mention Rossi's quote about seeing 100keV to 300keV particles... I think that's a reasonably important piece of data! I've posted it twice; not going to do it again just look for postings in the last 3 to 7 days with 300 keV at the end of the subject line. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:51 PM, SHIRAKAWA Akira shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: By shutting down hydrogen supply, as Focardi said in his latest interview. After hydrogen pressure decreases by a certain amount the reactor supposedly stops working by itself. If the system is in a runaway condition, I'm sure there is enough H2 in the reactor to take it to meltdown. Look at the configuration, the H2 is injected into the reactor at 300 psi and likely shut off. There is no gas return port that I can see. To shut the reaction down, you have to inject N2. These tanks are usually pressurized around 2500 psi; so, you can send in a lot of N2 without a gas return port. P.S.: By the way, did my other email containing a long list of questions and answers by Rossi reach the group? Yep, I saw it with all the attachments. T
RE: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Shutting down H2 supply cannot work, since the gas in the reactor is highly pressurized and consumed slowly, so the reaction would not be abated on H2 shut-down - in fact not for an extended period - possibly hours or days. Do you release pressurized and very hot hydrogen into a room where many people may be gathered? Answer: No. it would be instantly explosive. Now, it's indeed possible that the Nitrogen tank was there BECAUSE this was a public demo and Rossi anticipated that it would be impossible to release the pressurized H2, so he had to fashion an alternative for the demo only. However, does he normally risk release in a factory situation, where workers could be present? Maybe it could be ported outside, so N would not be necessary - but only a fool would dispense with it. Anyway, the demo situation would be the rationalization that makes the most sense for the N but it is still a contradiction. -Original Message- From: SHIRAKAWA Akira On 2011-04-16 01:36, Jones Beene wrote: Yes. Do not delete this ! It is important. Add this one to the growing 'contradictions' list, because I am sure that at one time he said he can operate the device for a period of time with no electrical input. How can it then be possible to shut down automatically with no current unless you flush with N ? ... and Terry is correct: the tank is labeled as nitrogen. Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? By shutting down hydrogen supply, as Focardi said in his latest interview. After hydrogen pressure decreases by a certain amount the reactor supposedly stops working by itself. P.S.: By the way, did my other email containing a long list of questions and answers by Rossi reach the group? Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. Who knows what it's doing there. Maybe they use it to purge the cell or clean out the tubes. The thing is, he says that was a misunderstanding and he never asserted that N is used to quench the reaction. I don't recall where I heard that. Looking around I see no record that Rossi said it. I looked in the SL and did not see it. So I say let's take him at his word on this. This is a minor issue. The contradictory statements about Ni isotope enrichment *are* important, and I would not propose removing them. If we find an earlier statement from him saying he used N, I suppose we can leave it in, and put in another statement next to it, with the label RETRACTION (not CONTRADICTION). If someone else said they use N, I guess that person was misinformed. No big deal. I'll bet N would work! They should try it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net wrote: You forgot to mention Rossi's quote about seeing 100keV to 300keV particles... I think that's a reasonably important piece of data! Okay. Not sure where to put it. We may need more better categories. I guess that would come under DEVICE CHARACTERISTICS. OPERATIONS is supposed to be how you make the thing work. How you twiddle the knobs. I did not give much thought to these categories. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: If the system is in a runaway condition, I'm sure there is enough H2 in the reactor to take it to meltdown. Look at the configuration, the H2 is injected into the reactor at 300 psi and likely shut off. Simply depressurizing the reactor by opening the valve to release the H2 pressure might not work. By all our estimates, H2 has saturated the Ni and will not leave the metal quickly before a meltdown. No, I really think you have to pollute the reaction with N2; which, by the way, lends credence to Peter Gluck's theory that it is polluting gases which prevent these experiments from showing the same results that Rossi has seen. Clean and bake your metal in a vacuum and seal it in the reactor. Then inject the H2. I think that will give you heat. It might be the Fe2O3 which makes it take off like an ECat. It might be the Cu. It might be both. Look carefully at what Rossi says. In one response to a question, he uses the word 'catalysts'. Plural! Nickel, rust and copper? T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Piantelii said that he used N to stop a run away meltdown before he found that D2 would stop the reaction on HIS system. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. Who knows what it's doing there. Maybe they use it to purge the cell or clean out the tubes. The thing is, he says that was a misunderstanding and he never asserted that N is used to quench the reaction. I don't recall where I heard that. Looking around I see no record that Rossi said it. I looked in the SL and did not see it. So I say let's take him at his word on this. This is a minor issue. The contradictory statements about Ni isotope enrichment *are*important, and I would not propose removing them. If we find an earlier statement from him saying he used N, I suppose we can leave it in, and put in another statement next to it, with the label RETRACTION (not CONTRADICTION). If someone else said they use N, I guess that person was misinformed. No big deal. I'll bet N would work! They should try it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Do you release pressurized and very hot hydrogen into a room where many people may be gathered? Answer: No. it would be instantly explosive. There is only a tiny bit. Pressure is low. What is the pressure, by the way? To scram a real, commercial device I would recommend the cells be vented then pumped out, with gas from all cells vented out of one hose. The hose should go outside, I guess, and it should ignite the gas at the end. Deliberately, I mean, with a spark. Put the end of it high up, like the exhaust pipe from a gas-fired water heater. Kind of like burning off gases at a Saudi oil refinery. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Piantelii said that he used N to stop a run away meltdown before he found that D2 would stop the reaction on HIS system. Wouldn't it be ironic if they end up using D2 to scram the reactors? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
This is a ridiculous voice input error: The resistance heaters are high-powered trigger the reaction and then hours reduced to maintain it. I guess it was supposed to be: The resistance heaters are used at high power to trigger the reaction, then power is reduced to maintain the reaction. In the Feb. 10 test, 1000 W triggered, and 80 W maintained. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: What is the pressure, by the way? I think he said 25 bar which would be about 360 psi. T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: What is the pressure, by the way? I think he said 25 bar which would be about 360 psi. Ah. 24 atm. I thought it was low, like 4 atm. I guess it would make quite a bang if they exhausted it into the room and it ignited. (Why are there so many ways to measure pressure?) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
he said he never insufflated nytrogen. That is not the same as saying he never injected nitrogen. Could this be an example Rossi's sense of humour? Harry - Original Message From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 7:36:03 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device Yes. Do not delete this ! It is important. Add this one to the growing 'contradictions' list, because I am sure that at one time he said he can operate the device for a period of time with no electrical input. How can it then be possible to shut down automatically with no current unless you flush with N ? ... and Terry is correct: the tank is labeled as nitrogen. Surely he is not so careless (miserly) as to fill this tank with H2 to cut cost ? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: Rossi wrote: 2-I never insufflated Nytrogen. That info was wrong. If there is a black out, the E-Cat automatically stops, for lack of current: it is intrinsically safe Okay. I think I should just delete the statement about N: Why? That ain't no H2 tank in the Jan demo image. T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: (Why are there so many ways to measure pressure?) Because all people are under it? :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 8:32:34 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Notes on Rossi device This is a ridiculous voice input error: The resistance heaters are high-powered trigger the reaction and then hours reduced to maintain it. I guess it was supposed to be: The resistance heaters are used at high power to trigger the reaction, then power is reduced to maintain the reaction. In the Feb. 10 test, 1000 W triggered, and 80 W maintained. - Jed If all energy is convertible and equivalent as - modern physics preaches - what is the purpose of maintaining a small supply of energy when the reaction chamber gets much hotter? Clearly the quality of the input energy matters. I don't think the reductive notion that all energy is equivalent exists in the alchemical tradition. Harry
