Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
you didn't address my question about income being a fair measure of hard work. The question does not imply that I think everyone should have the same income no matter what they do. harry On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: > So, let me get this straight. > > So, Bill Gates quits his schooling to start Microsoft. Invested his savings > into the venture. Worked hard day and night to perfect his software. Works > long days to market his software. Used his skill and charisma to win an > account with IBM, gets lucky and makes a Billion. But it did not stopped > there. He worked long hours at Microsoft. Poured his heart out. Exhausted > every skill. Worked very hard to build a credible software company, > outcompeting every other competitor. Now, he is harvesting the fruits of > his labor, and some idiot comes along and says he is not working hard, and > wants to redistribute his money hard earned thru charisma, luck and hard > work. > > Yeah, that's right, Bill Gates DID NOT work hard for his money. OK > > That's why I despise socialists and communists. They just want to steal the > fruits of your labor. It's a retrograde and thieving philosophy hatched out > of the minds of lazy bums. > > > > Jojo > > > > - Original Message - From: "Harry Veeder" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:43 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > >> How does one measure "hard work"? >> >> How much harder does Bill Gates work in comparison to someone who >> works two jobs at minimum wage? >> Do you seriously he imagine he works 100 times harder if his income is >> 100 times greater? >> >> >> >> Do you believe a man with backhoe works 100 times harder than a man with >> shovel? >> >> Harry >> >> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: >>> >>> This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive >>> and >>> at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of >>> socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is >>> the >>> panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work >>> hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure >>> sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. >>> >>> Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and >>> criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, >>> including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty >>> stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources >>> and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons >>> than >>> any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the >>> US >>> has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin >>> and >>> rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Jouni Valkonen >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer >>> Seized >>> >>> >>> I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate >>> poverty >>> from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust >>> distribution >>> of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into >>> criminality >>> if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because >>> children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed >>> to >>> live. >>> >>> Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each >>> individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite >>> easily >>> by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the >>> basic >>> needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent >>> larger >>> scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free >>> education. >>> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Sure it can. I make such a comparison right here. http://pdxjjb-econ-politics.blogspot.com/2012/05/parable-of-smart-frugal.html It's not that your arguments are incorrect, but they are not very strong arguments, either. Jeff On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: > > On 10/16/2012 11:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> >> Gates himself, along with many other self-made wealthy people, including >> Buffet and me, are in favor of modest redistribution tax policy. We think >> it is not fair that people like Buffet pay lower taxes than a secretary or >> a bus driver. We are not socialists or communists. We have a right to our >> opinions. >> >> If you keep bringing up politics, then I have to keep challenging you on > it. > > 'People like Buffet' pay lower income tax rates because their income is > generally based on capital gains. This is not the same kind of an income as > that of a bus driver, for these reasons: > > 1) A bus driver's income is consistent from year to year. A person who > lives on capital gains, does not have a stable income. Frequently, years go > by when he loses money. > > 2) Capital gains is not indexed for inflation. So, say there is a 7.2% > inflation rate. If a piece of capital is held for ten years, and if it > doubles in value over those ten years, then there is no increase in wealth > over the increase created from the inflation rate. Yet, if the capital is > sold, then it will incur a 15% tax rate on the difference in value from the > purchase price and the sale price. So, in effect, the capital will be sold > for the same price as that for which it was paid, and yet the owner will > still pay a 15% tax on the difference in price. This is an effective loss, > for which the owner is taxed. > > The two forms of income cannot be compared, and yet people still want to > try. Sometimes, people will say that some of the wealthiest people pay no > taxes, but what they are referring to is the special case that occurs when > some people actually lose money over the course of a year. The US > government has never had a wealth tax, and if wealth is lost during a year, > then no tax is owed. The wealthiest Americans will frequently lose wealth > during bad years, and pay no income tax. This is correct and expected. > > Buffet does not pay lower taxes. Rather, his tax rate cannot be compared > to other forms of income in an honest fashion. > > Craig > > > >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
On 10/16/2012 11:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Gates himself, along with many other self-made wealthy people, including Buffet and me, are in favor of modest redistribution tax policy. We think it is not fair that people like Buffet pay lower taxes than a secretary or a bus driver. We are not socialists or communists. We have a right to our opinions. If you keep bringing up politics, then I have to keep challenging you on it. 'People like Buffet' pay lower income tax rates because their income is generally based on capital gains. This is not the same kind of an income as that of a bus driver, for these reasons: 1) A bus driver's income is consistent from year to year. A person who lives on capital gains, does not have a stable income. Frequently, years go by when he loses money. 2) Capital gains is not indexed for inflation. So, say there is a 7.2% inflation rate. If a piece of capital is held for ten years, and if it doubles in value over those ten years, then there is no increase in wealth over the increase created from the inflation rate. Yet, if the capital is sold, then it will incur a 15% tax rate on the difference in value from the purchase price and the sale price. So, in effect, the capital will be sold for the same price as that for which it was paid, and yet the owner will still pay a 15% tax on the difference in price. This is an effective loss, for which the owner is taxed. The two forms of income cannot be compared, and yet people still want to try. Sometimes, people will say that some of the wealthiest people pay no taxes, but what they are referring to is the special case that occurs when some people actually lose money over the course of a year. The US government has never had a wealth tax, and if wealth is lost during a year, then no tax is owed. The wealthiest Americans will frequently lose wealth during bad years, and pay no income tax. This is correct and expected. Buffet does not pay lower taxes. Rather, his tax rate cannot be compared to other forms of income in an honest fashion. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
> > Joro Jaro wrote: > > So, let me get this straight. >> >> So, Bill Gates quits his schooling to start Microsoft. . . . > > > Now, he is harvesting the fruits of his labor, and some idiot comes along >> and says he is not working hard, and wants to redistribute his money hard >> earned thru charisma, luck and hard work. >> >> Yeah, that's right, Bill Gates DID NOT work hard for his money. OK >> >> That's why I despise socialists and communists. > > You have the story right. However, you did not say the name of the bum who wants to redistribute Gates' money. The guy who favors higher taxes on the rich, and who is campaigning to preserve the inheritance tax. That stinking bum is: Bill Gates Gates himself, along with many other self-made wealthy people, including Buffet and me, are in favor of modest redistribution tax policy. We think it is not fair that people like Buffet pay lower taxes than a secretary or a bus driver. We are not socialists or communists. We have a right to our opinions. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
JoJo, I like it. On Wednesday, October 3, 2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: > So, let me get this straight. > > So, Bill Gates quits his schooling to start Microsoft. Invested his > savings into the venture. Worked hard day and night to perfect his > software. Works long days to market his software. Used his skill and > charisma to win an account with IBM, gets lucky and makes a Billion. But > it did not stopped there. He worked long hours at Microsoft. Poured his > heart out. Exhausted every skill. Worked very hard to build a credible > software company, outcompeting every other competitor. Now, he is > harvesting the fruits of his labor, and some idiot comes along and says he > is not working hard, and wants to redistribute his money hard earned thru > charisma, luck and hard work. > > Yeah, that's right, Bill Gates DID NOT work hard for his money. OK > > That's why I despise socialists and communists. They just want to steal > the fruits of your labor. It's a retrograde and thieving philosophy > hatched out of the minds of lazy bums. > > > > Jojo > > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Harry Veeder" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:43 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > > How does one measure "hard work"? >> >> How much harder does Bill Gates work in comparison to someone who >> works two jobs at minimum wage? >> Do you seriously he imagine he works 100 times harder if his income is >> 100 times greater? >> >> >> >> Do you believe a man with backhoe works 100 times harder than a man with >> shovel? >> >> Harry >> >> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: >> >>> This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive >>> and >>> at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of >>> socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is >>> the >>> panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work >>> hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure >>> sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. >>> >>> Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and >>> criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, >>> including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty >>> stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources >>> and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons >>> than >>> any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why >>> the US >>> has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin >>> and >>> rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Jouni Valkonen >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer >>> Seized >>> >>> >>> I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate >>> poverty >>> from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust >>> distribution >>> of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into >>> criminality >>> if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because >>> children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed >>> to >>> live. >>> >>> Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each >>> individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite >>> easily >>> by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the >>> basic >>> needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent >>> larger >>> scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free >>> education. >>> >>> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
So, let me get this straight. So, Bill Gates quits his schooling to start Microsoft. Invested his savings into the venture. Worked hard day and night to perfect his software. Works long days to market his software. Used his skill and charisma to win an account with IBM, gets lucky and makes a Billion. But it did not stopped there. He worked long hours at Microsoft. Poured his heart out. Exhausted every skill. Worked very hard to build a credible software company, outcompeting every other competitor. Now, he is harvesting the fruits of his labor, and some idiot comes along and says he is not working hard, and wants to redistribute his money hard earned thru charisma, luck and hard work. Yeah, that's right, Bill Gates DID NOT work hard for his money. OK That's why I despise socialists and communists. They just want to steal the fruits of your labor. It's a retrograde and thieving philosophy hatched out of the minds of lazy bums. Jojo - Original Message - From: "Harry Veeder" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized How does one measure "hard work"? How much harder does Bill Gates work in comparison to someone who works two jobs at minimum wage? Do you seriously he imagine he works 100 times harder if his income is 100 times greater? Do you believe a man with backhoe works 100 times harder than a man with shovel? Harry On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive and at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is the panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons than any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the US has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). Jojo PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin and rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust distribution of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into criminality if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed to live. Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent larger scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free education.
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
BTW, I have a problem with YOUR NAME and YOU HAH HAH HAH !!! << SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL!!! >> from ; Damn-yell >> << Spoken like a true NAZIS ... with liberty & justice for all (the damned) !! BTW, I JUST received this email moments ago, and all I can say is that THIS is what " True Freedom" is all about *Good day To You... How are you doing todayIt have been some couple of days now i have not receive any E-mail from you in regard to the Loan you intend to get from our company that we have already processed, but it seems as if you don't need this loan any more if you insist we can still cancel this transaction okay. You know how bad you need this loan If i may ask do you still need this loan?I will want you to get back to me as soon as possible so that we can proceed further So if you need this loan,...get back to me as soon as possible. Waiting for your Email, Thanks. On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:51 PM, wrote: > Hello ILLegal Loan scam operator. Tracked down your so-called business, > and as I suspected, you are a fraud. You're email originated from Mt. View > - > Los Angeles CA. I know exactly where you live, and you are currently being > persued by the authorities. You will soon likely be back in your cage, where > you belong. I will come & visit you and make sure you are being treated > inhumanely, just like you. >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
BTW Jojo, you wouldn't happen to be related to the KilamaJARO family with a pile of (illbegotten) money the size of a Mountain... AND, the so-called "Intelligent Design" that you are supposedly have a "third" degree-in isn't just an attempt to impress the more educated professional intelligent people types here and/or those that are legally occupying and/or living & working in this country? I'm also interested in what you think about "Black Holes" which as we all know, suck so hard that nothing, not even white-light can escape it? I'd also like your opinion of Dark Energy, as it too seems to be made up of alot of BS, and simply can't be good for any civilization in this universe and/or any other one. Also, again I must (again) address your proudly professsed and/or proclaimed (third) degree working knowledge of "Intelligent Design", of which, you're obviously a strong advocate of, if not totally committed to,,, because, you've been around so long, and know that opur DNA is 99% monkey and therefore can be the only explanation for your wonderous glorious being... and/or you of course are trying to get everyone to empathize, sympathize and/or feel ed compelled to donate to your just cause, which is..??? And also, just how many alias screenames and/or accounts and/or people w/ similar intentions w/ any endless number of pitches not just here but amost everywhere in the world, are you invoved with? You see, I have this insatiable desire to learn just who's who, and/or, whats what. And, how long have you been working your way into all the websites out there, while earning the trust & confidence in the unsuspecting participants, who then allow you to persuade them how knowledgeable you are? Halleuliah !!... Praise Be To The Designer !!... and, what was it again?. Oh yeah, I remember... it's that you The Great Designer, of acquiring some rather impressive amounts of $$$,$$$,$$$.$$ thruout the land have a greater purpose for all of us who realize how important it is to live by certain rules and/or viable means of government, by which, we can live truly free w/o the fear of being Ruled by a wannabe Dictator, like the one currently misoccupying this Countries ILL FADED White House!
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Spoken like a true NAZIS ... with liberty & justice for all (the damned) !! << SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL!!! >> from ; Damn-yell
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL!!! 2012/10/7 > The "True" people of this Country have been, are being, and/or will > continue (?) to be worked & played and/or by the leeches & parasites > that plague > all Countries with anykind of wealth A huge number of various > call/screen names w/ yahoo, gmail, hotmail accounts (among others) are > generally all > apart of the same group or effort to swindle, con, defraud, influence, > swindle, lie, scam, and/or blab endlessly their way into your life, while > making > you believe they are honest, ethical, fair-minded, normal good people, like > you & me. > >Now, I simply must take this opportunity to thank these one & the same > individuals (posing as human beings) for making themselves (in)obvious > about > their intentions so please try to remember that "they're" everywhere > working & playing "us" like the naive gullible fools, we are. > > Thank you all for > your time, and your trust, sense of decency, and the sharing spirit of > donating your wealth or any money you have, or may come across, and/or > last but not > least, your soon-to-be demise as all good things must come to an end! > Sincerely L.H. > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
The "True" people of this Country have been, are being, and/or will continue (?) to be worked & played and/or by the leeches & parasites that plague all Countries with anykind of wealth A huge number of various call/screen names w/ yahoo, gmail, hotmail accounts (among others) are generally all apart of the same group or effort to swindle, con, defraud, influence, swindle, lie, scam, and/or blab endlessly their way into your life, while making you believe they are honest, ethical, fair-minded, normal good people, like you & me. Now, I simply must take this opportunity to thank these one & the same individuals (posing as human beings) for making themselves (in)obvious about their intentions so please try to remember that "they're" everywhere working & playing "us" like the naive gullible fools, we are. Thank you all for your time, and your trust, sense of decency, and the sharing spirit of donating your wealth or any money you have, or may come across, and/or last but not least, your soon-to-be demise as all good things must come to an end! Sincerely L.H.
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Lets see now, after my interpreting or translating Jojo's many messages concerning the ill ways of Liberalism in these United States of America, I believe I have a fairly clear understanding of intentions. Now, seeing how you have stated at least several time that you live outside of this Country, it has literally forced me into thinking that you might be associated with a group of thoughtful caring loving giving heart tugging sobbing emotional sad unfortunate misgivings and/or stories about Nigerians and their struggles and therefor the reason why you have been offering up various $ums of inheritence money among other scemes that lure or entice gullible people in this Country into giving up as much of theirs, to get it? . I can onl assume that those on the "left" don't contribute nearly as much as those on the "right" to your rightous just nobel cause. All I can say is that " I guess it serves them right for being so gullible,,, but, that still doesn't make it right, you know. And BTW, you know that in these difficult ecomical times things are getting much tighter, so maybe you need to to budget yourself just like everyone else. Also, Obama in the Out House, uh, I mean White House can only serve as a "lesson" to enlighten all of the gullible giving fools that occupy this Country. So, best regards to you & yours in the furture, and please take what I say to heart, and try to be more understanding... (Ha!!!).
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Jojo: The Wealth of the US is owned by a small portion of its citizens. It doesn't seem out line that those who own it pay for it. Instead it seems you would prefer that those who have little or no ownership in the assets of this country pay the country's bills. This is after all another way to look at it. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 7, 2012, at 2:15 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: > My friend, I think you should be the one seeking professional help. For ... > How could one consider THEFT to be a trivial matter. How would you feel if I > stole your life savings? Hey, to save us the trouble, why don't you just > send me your life savings so that I can have more "discretionary" spending. > > And Income Redistribution is THEFT. It is not individual theft as we would > understand; NO, Income Redistribution is "Institutional Theft". The very > government sworn to protect your rights is the one stealing from you. > > And just because MORE people want to redistribute Bill Gates' income, that > makes it correct and moral, right? That, my friend, makes you a communist. > > Communism is characterized by mob-rule. Whatever, the majority wants goes, > without regard for the rights of the minority. Income Redistribution is mob > rule. > > > Jojo > > PS, You have no idea how much I give to charity and church work. So, don't > presume to lecture me about basic human relationship, compassion and charity. > I give out of my free will. That is the essence of human choice God gave > us. Forcing me to give to lazy bums in Wisconsin so that he can buy a new > HDTV is neither basic human relationship, nor compassion nor charity. > > BTW. I am probably giving more and will give more to charity and church work > than your whole lifetime income. > > > > > - Original Message ----- > From: Daniel Rocha > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > I am not doing an analogy at all. I am just talking about logic If A has > something in common with B, it does not follow that A=B. > > I hope this issue of redistribution does not affect your personal life. It's > something really trivial to understand and it is behind basic human > relationships, like compassion and charity. If you cannot see in that way, > your mind must be full of paranoia and you should seek a professional > counseling. > > 2012/10/7 Jojo Jaro >> You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were really >> appropriate. >> >> You analogy is faulty and I reject it. It does not even follow basic >> logical reasoning at all. > > > > -- > Daniel Rocha - RJ > danieldi...@gmail.com >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
No, I don't your church people buying HDTV, specially the pastor and his co thieves! 2012/10/7 Jojo Jaro > ** > > BTW. I am probably giving more and will give more to charity and church > work than your whole lifetime income. > > > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
My friend, I think you should be the one seeking professional help. For ... How could one consider THEFT to be a trivial matter. How would you feel if I stole your life savings? Hey, to save us the trouble, why don't you just send me your life savings so that I can have more "discretionary" spending. And Income Redistribution is THEFT. It is not individual theft as we would understand; NO, Income Redistribution is "Institutional Theft". The very government sworn to protect your rights is the one stealing from you. And just because MORE people want to redistribute Bill Gates' income, that makes it correct and moral, right? That, my friend, makes you a communist. Communism is characterized by mob-rule. Whatever, the majority wants goes, without regard for the rights of the minority. Income Redistribution is mob rule. Jojo PS, You have no idea how much I give to charity and church work. So, don't presume to lecture me about basic human relationship, compassion and charity. I give out of my free will. That is the essence of human choice God gave us. Forcing me to give to lazy bums in Wisconsin so that he can buy a new HDTV is neither basic human relationship, nor compassion nor charity. BTW. I am probably giving more and will give more to charity and church work than your whole lifetime income. - Original Message - From: Daniel Rocha To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized I am not doing an analogy at all. I am just talking about logic If A has something in common with B, it does not follow that A=B. I hope this issue of redistribution does not affect your personal life. It's something really trivial to understand and it is behind basic human relationships, like compassion and charity. If you cannot see in that way, your mind must be full of paranoia and you should seek a professional counseling. 2012/10/7 Jojo Jaro You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were really appropriate. You analogy is faulty and I reject it. It does not even follow basic logical reasoning at all. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
I am not doing an analogy at all. I am just talking about logic If A has something in common with B, it does not follow that A=B. I hope this issue of redistribution does not affect your personal life. It's something really trivial to understand and it is behind basic human relationships, like compassion and charity. If you cannot see in that way, your mind must be full of paranoia and you should seek a professional counseling. 2012/10/7 Jojo Jaro > ** > You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were > really appropriate. > > You analogy is faulty and I reject it. It does not even follow basic > logical reasoning at all. > > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were really appropriate. You analogy is faulty and I reject it. It does not even follow basic logical reasoning at all. Just to be clear, Income Redistribution is NOT a subset of Communism, as you claim with your analogy. NO. Income Redistribution is Communism and vice-versa.. Only those who would like to soften the horror of communism would claim so, which goes back to my original contention. Communist adherrents like you would have to resort to deceptive terms like this to make communism appealing. "No, No, Income Redistribution is not communism, it is just a "part" of communism" What a load of highly-enriched weapons-grade balonium. Jojo - Original Message - From: Daniel Rocha To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not all flying species are eagles. 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in communism. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Lies, Lies, Lies and statistics. One can use any statistic to prop up any lie one wants, as you have demonstrated here. Baloney. Even if your contention were true (which I highly question). The 1950's and 1960's where by no means the golden age of the American Economy as you contend. What about the progress under Reagan or even under Clinton. They occured under lower tax burdens, contrary to your contention. In fact, the fastest economic growth occured under low tax burdens for everyone. When will you learn that stealing from those with money and freely give them to lazy bums will not work. If they did, Communists countries would be the most properous countries with the most vibrant middle class and highest quality of life. The fact of the matter is, countries have tried your Income Redistribution ideas and have found them to be unworkable. That is why, communist countries are the epitome of squalor. I do not need to argue statistics and lies with you. All I need to do is point out that those who have tried your ideas of Income Redistribution are playing 3rd Fiddle to the U.S.- the most vibrant economy there is with the highest standard of living and best place to be. When was the last time people were banging at doors to get into the Soviet Union, China, Cuba or North Korea. "A+" for effort, try again. Jojo - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and 1960's when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record high was 94% at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw highest prosperity increasing economic growth in history, because almost all of the economic growth went for the middle class. And where else it could even go, if the marginal tax rate for rich was 90%? Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and the middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really lazy as their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during the past 30 years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and below. —Jouni Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not all flying species are eagles. 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in communism. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Aren't you mistaking me for JoJo? 2012/10/7 Jouni Valkonen > > > Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and > 1960's when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record > high was 94% at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw > highest prosperity increasing economic growth in history, because almost > all of the economic growth went for the middle class. And where else it > could even go, if the marginal tax rate for rich was 90%? > > Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and > the middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really > lazy as their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during > the past 30 years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and > below. > > —Jouni > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > > This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but > not all flying species are eagles. > > 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro > >> Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in >> communism. > > > > -- > Daniel Rocha - RJ > danieldi...@gmail.com > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and 1960's when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record high was 94% at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw highest prosperity increasing economic growth in history, because almost all of the economic growth went for the middle class. And where else it could even go, if the marginal tax rate for rich was 90%? Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and the middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really lazy as their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during the past 30 years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and below. ―Jouni Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not > all flying species are eagles. > > 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro >> Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in >> communism. > > > -- > Daniel Rocha - RJ > danieldi...@gmail.com >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not all flying species are eagles. 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro > Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in > communism. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
A Funny thing always happens in discussions about communism and its associated philosophies, like Socialism, Social Justice, Social Security and Income Redistribution, Income Equality and the like. Advocates of such a philosphy always couch their arguments in apologetic, deceptive and covert terms to make the philosophy appeal to more people. Such is the attempt of Harry below. He attempts to call Income Redistribution as "NOTHING like this. (Communism)". Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in communism. Every day people recognize it as such, while communist advocates deny it all day long hoping their readers are gullible. Why do communists adherrents do this? The answer is simple. Communistic philosophies are so repulsive and incompatible to human nature that ALL people naturally recoil from it. The only way communism is imposed on people is thru deception and force. Has there ever been a people or country under communist rule that would not want to free itself from it. Peter Gluck is a perfect example of how free thinking people always despise communism. And his is an example of billions more. Communism is a discredited and retrograde philosophy. And its tenets are always oppressive and unfair that people normally balk from it. No free thinking person would naturally cleave to communism. Yet, we have our resident moron and lazy bum from Wisconsin wanting to implement Income Redistribution so that he may have some "discretionary" income. Notice what he said: "a modern economy cannot flourish unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly created by the working class." In other words, he wants money he did not work for so that he can spend it on stuff he does not need (discretionary). I don't know about you, but I call that "LAZY". Well, I have news for the LAZY bum in Wisconsin. This modern society of America HAS flourished without income redistribution. In fact, it is now floundering because lazy bums like you have this "entitlement" mentality that you need money for discretionary spending. Unblelievable how you can say this with a straight face and pretend you are not a communist. There is nothing more abhorent in this world than liars, communists, socialist, liberals and lazy bums. And you my friend are all of these. Jojo - Original Message - From: "Harry Veeder" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized Dictatorial Communism allocated resources through the control of prices and production. Calls for the redistribution income in a free market system is nothing like this. Harry On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: The Internet also say so- see for example: https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/12/ received this morning, one suggestion from many that technological progress COULD contribute to the solving of Humanity's great problems. I am just working on a blog publication about effectiveness and efficiency- in two parts- 1- about the dark side of these concepts and 2- about efficiency of/in cold fusion/LENR research. Only commercial LENR could contribute to problem solving- something much better than combustion, fission, wind and solar energy -and the efforts/results ratio was very small till now. LENR per se is wicked problem. Peter On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: > I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of > nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies > to > both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education > and > have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense > difference > between social theories and social practice so > I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution. > It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing > the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce. > The social problems are very wicked everywhere. Peter, You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced. Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder, those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the everyday lives of others
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Dictatorial Communism allocated resources through the control of prices and production. Calls for the redistribution income in a free market system is nothing like this. Harry On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > The Internet also say so- see for example: > https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/12/ > > received this morning, one suggestion from many that technological progress > COULD contribute to > the solving of Humanity's great problems. > I am just working on a blog publication about > effectiveness and efficiency- in two parts- 1- about the dark side of these > concepts and 2- about efficiency of/in cold fusion/LENR research. > Only commercial LENR could contribute to > problem solving- something much better than combustion, fission, wind and > solar energy -and > the efforts/results ratio was very small till now. > LENR per se is wicked problem. > > Peter > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson > wrote: >> >> > I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of >> > nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies to >> > both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education and >> > have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense difference >> > between social theories and social practice so >> > I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution. >> > It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing >> > the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce. >> > The social problems are very wicked everywhere. >> >> Peter, >> >> You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have >> assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to >> challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad >> you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced. >> >> Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may >> have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at >> heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a >> few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive >> myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder, >> those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the >> everyday lives of others should be rewarded. I suspect capitalism, >> flawed it may be, is probably better at compensating such individuals >> than any other system. It's imperative that Incentives and rewards be >> in place. >> >> However... >> >> It's my suspicion that with ensuing advancements of technology, >> automation and robotics, traditional capitalism as it is currently >> practiced will have to evolve... perhaps radically. I personally >> suspect that capitalism will eventually have to incorporate a number >> of socialistic concepts into its fundamental core, particularly things >> like universal health care. Capitalism, in turn, will have to improve >> on many of these socialistic "rights". I think most capitalistic >> societies will eventually come around to a realization that what used >> to be considered privileged "benefits" that only the rich and well off >> could afford should be perceived as universal rights that are to be >> bestowed on all of its citizens. Such benefits would include >> unemployment compensation that, if warranted, simultaneously >> incorporates "free" job re-training. Eventually, free advanced >> eduction should become another inevitable universal right as well. >> However, I think such benefits will only be possible through the >> continued advances of technology, automation and robotics. >> >> Regards >> Steven Vincent Johnson >> www.OrionWorks.com >> www.zazzle.com/orionworks >> > > > > -- > Dr. Peter Gluck > Cluj, Romania > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: No modern society can survive without some measure of redistribution from > wealthy people to middle class and poor people. This necessity is imposed > by our technology, in manufacturing and farming. We will soon need much > more redistribution, to nearly everyone: > I've been wondering about the role of technological change and the accompanying affects on the labor market and the general welfare of society. With the apparently increasing churn in job tenure, it will no doubt be more and more difficult for many to get a solid foot in the middle class as things currently stand in a country like the US. This is not just bad for those out of work but also for society. Having people loiter around, unable to find work, or in menial positions that do not lead anywhere, does no one any good. If one accepts this premise, there seems to be a choice between a less flexible labor market, on one hand, and a stronger social safety net, on the other (or perhaps both). I don't think a less flexible labor market is the way to go in a technologically advanced society. So I find the Scandanavian approach to the safety net a very interesting one. I even take a little bit of gleeful pleasure in the fact that conservatives in the US deride this general line of thinking as "European" (with all due respect to the self-identified conservatives on this list). I say "increasing churn," but perhaps this is mistaken, in historical terms. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
The Internet also say so- see for example: https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/12/ received this morning, one suggestion from many that technological progress COULD contribute to the solving of Humanity's great problems. I am just working on a blog publication about effectiveness and efficiency- in two parts- 1- about the dark side of these concepts and 2- about efficiency of/in cold fusion/LENR research. Only commercial LENR could contribute to problem solving- something much better than combustion, fission, wind and solar energy -and the efforts/results ratio was very small till now. LENR per se is wicked problem. Peter On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson < svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of > > nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies to > > both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education and > > have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense difference > > between social theories and social practice so > > I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution. > > It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing > > the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce. > > The social problems are very wicked everywhere. > > Peter, > > You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have > assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to > challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad > you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced. > > Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may > have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at > heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a > few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive > myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder, > those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the > everyday lives of others should be rewarded. I suspect capitalism, > flawed it may be, is probably better at compensating such individuals > than any other system. It's imperative that Incentives and rewards be > in place. > > However... > > It's my suspicion that with ensuing advancements of technology, > automation and robotics, traditional capitalism as it is currently > practiced will have to evolve... perhaps radically. I personally > suspect that capitalism will eventually have to incorporate a number > of socialistic concepts into its fundamental core, particularly things > like universal health care. Capitalism, in turn, will have to improve > on many of these socialistic "rights". I think most capitalistic > societies will eventually come around to a realization that what used > to be considered privileged "benefits" that only the rich and well off > could afford should be perceived as universal rights that are to be > bestowed on all of its citizens. Such benefits would include > unemployment compensation that, if warranted, simultaneously > incorporates "free" job re-training. Eventually, free advanced > eduction should become another inevitable universal right as well. > However, I think such benefits will only be possible through the > continued advances of technology, automation and robotics. > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
> I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of > nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies to > both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education and > have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense difference > between social theories and social practice so > I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution. > It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing > the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce. > The social problems are very wicked everywhere. Peter, You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced. Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder, those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the everyday lives of others should be rewarded. I suspect capitalism, flawed it may be, is probably better at compensating such individuals than any other system. It's imperative that Incentives and rewards be in place. However... It's my suspicion that with ensuing advancements of technology, automation and robotics, traditional capitalism as it is currently practiced will have to evolve... perhaps radically. I personally suspect that capitalism will eventually have to incorporate a number of socialistic concepts into its fundamental core, particularly things like universal health care. Capitalism, in turn, will have to improve on many of these socialistic "rights". I think most capitalistic societies will eventually come around to a realization that what used to be considered privileged "benefits" that only the rich and well off could afford should be perceived as universal rights that are to be bestowed on all of its citizens. Such benefits would include unemployment compensation that, if warranted, simultaneously incorporates "free" job re-training. Eventually, free advanced eduction should become another inevitable universal right as well. However, I think such benefits will only be possible through the continued advances of technology, automation and robotics. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
i would like to know why some people scream "COMMUNISM!!!", specially in USA, when any kind of social initiative is proposed. I know why, but it's just ridiculous. > During the U.S. occupation of Japan, land reform was one of the most > important and effective polices. It made a tremendous contribution to > ensuring that democracy survived and that rural people could live decently, > without starving or selling their daughters into prostitution they way they > had to do before the war. > > Land reform, along with all of the other occupation initiatives, was > designed in Washington during the last years of the war. The policy was set > long before the occupation began. Under this policy, MacArthur's GHQ > ordered the Japanese government buy land from large landowners and > distribute it to the tenant farmers who were working the land. Because of > the rampant inflation, the government paid essentially nothing for that > land. That is to say, they set prices and paid months or years later, when > the value of money had fallen by a huge factor. > > No modern society can survive without some measure of redistribution from > wealthy people to middle class and poor people. This necessity is imposed > by our technology, in manufacturing and farming. We will soon need much > more redistribution, to nearly everyone: > > http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/ > > There is nothing morally wrong with this. It is how our machinery works. > If you want to live in a high tech modern society, you must have an economy > that fits it. > > - Jed > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: > El Salvador is one of the > smaller Central American countries situated north of Nicaragua. Back > then, during the mid 1960s, it was estimated that 90% of the country's > land was owned by 14 families. The illiteracy rate was hovering > somewhere between 60% and 80%. During the U.S. occupation of Japan, land reform was one of the most important and effective polices. It made a tremendous contribution to ensuring that democracy survived and that rural people could live decently, without starving or selling their daughters into prostitution they way they had to do before the war. Land reform, along with all of the other occupation initiatives, was designed in Washington during the last years of the war. The policy was set long before the occupation began. Under this policy, MacArthur's GHQ ordered the Japanese government buy land from large landowners and distribute it to the tenant farmers who were working the land. Because of the rampant inflation, the government paid essentially nothing for that land. That is to say, they set prices and paid months or years later, when the value of money had fallen by a huge factor. No modern society can survive without some measure of redistribution from wealthy people to middle class and poor people. This necessity is imposed by our technology, in manufacturing and farming. We will soon need much more redistribution, to nearly everyone: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/ There is nothing morally wrong with this. It is how our machinery works. If you want to live in a high tech modern society, you must have an economy that fits it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies to both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education and have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense difference between social theories and social practice so I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution. It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce. The social problems are very wicked everywhere. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson < svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote: > From Peter, > > ... > > > Redistribution is not a solution and it is only temporary, please > > read about Mediocristan and and Extremistan in Taleb's Black Swan. > > Inequality is a fundamental law of Nature, all you can do socially is > minor > > adjustments at the extremes, but it is not easy to act wisely. > > Hi Peter, > > Some personal thoughts on the matter... > > One of my favorite films is Dr. Zhivago. A masterpiece. > > I first saw the film when I was about 13 years old while we were > living down in San Salvador, El Salvador. El Salvador is one of the > smaller Central American countries situated north of Nicaragua. Back > then, during the mid 1960s, it was estimated that 90% of the country's > land was owned by 14 families. The illiteracy rate was hovering > somewhere between 60% and 80%. As a young teenager, I must confess the > fact my first viewing of the film... well, much of what transpired > went completely over my head. Fortunately, subsequent viewings brought > the harsh lessons that transpired into better focus. > > I realize that when some radical like me talks about "redistribution > of wealth", many perceive the phrase as possessing many negative > connotations. It is even perceived as an evil un-godly, un-Christian > act by a few conservatives of the fundamentalist sort. However, from > what I could see, from what I experienced, any country that maintains > a clear and horribly lopsided "distribution of wealth" system within > its borders strikes me as a far more evil state of affairs than our > often flawed and clumsy attempts at redistributing wealth. > > As hypocritical as it might seem for me to say this, I am not in favor > of uniform redistribution of wealth. That would be impossible, > particularly since "equality" means different things to different > people. IOW, it is a highly subjective state of affairs. I am, > however, in favor of more "redistribution" of wealth than what we > currently practice within the USA. How much more "redistribution of > wealth" is necessary, of course, a highly debatable matter. That's > what our elected officials (and all of the kings subjects) will have > to iron out - and no doubt with great difficulty. Nevertheless, in my > view it is necessary... it is inevitable, because it strikes me as a > terrible waste of a nation's limited resources (both natural and > human) to live in a country where a single individual might feel it is > their god given right to own at least two Cadillacs when at the same > time there are too many who are scrounging to pay bus fair to get to > their low-wage paying jobs flipping burgers at McDonalds or operating > a cash register at WallMart. Calling all of these unfortunate > individuals bums and freeloaders will only hasten the inevitable > revolution, because eventually they won't put up with it anymore, no > matter what it costs them. If they have nothing else to loose... > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
>From Peter, ... > Redistribution is not a solution and it is only temporary, please > read about Mediocristan and and Extremistan in Taleb's Black Swan. > Inequality is a fundamental law of Nature, all you can do socially is minor > adjustments at the extremes, but it is not easy to act wisely. Hi Peter, Some personal thoughts on the matter... One of my favorite films is Dr. Zhivago. A masterpiece. I first saw the film when I was about 13 years old while we were living down in San Salvador, El Salvador. El Salvador is one of the smaller Central American countries situated north of Nicaragua. Back then, during the mid 1960s, it was estimated that 90% of the country's land was owned by 14 families. The illiteracy rate was hovering somewhere between 60% and 80%. As a young teenager, I must confess the fact my first viewing of the film... well, much of what transpired went completely over my head. Fortunately, subsequent viewings brought the harsh lessons that transpired into better focus. I realize that when some radical like me talks about "redistribution of wealth", many perceive the phrase as possessing many negative connotations. It is even perceived as an evil un-godly, un-Christian act by a few conservatives of the fundamentalist sort. However, from what I could see, from what I experienced, any country that maintains a clear and horribly lopsided "distribution of wealth" system within its borders strikes me as a far more evil state of affairs than our often flawed and clumsy attempts at redistributing wealth. As hypocritical as it might seem for me to say this, I am not in favor of uniform redistribution of wealth. That would be impossible, particularly since "equality" means different things to different people. IOW, it is a highly subjective state of affairs. I am, however, in favor of more "redistribution" of wealth than what we currently practice within the USA. How much more "redistribution of wealth" is necessary, of course, a highly debatable matter. That's what our elected officials (and all of the kings subjects) will have to iron out - and no doubt with great difficulty. Nevertheless, in my view it is necessary... it is inevitable, because it strikes me as a terrible waste of a nation's limited resources (both natural and human) to live in a country where a single individual might feel it is their god given right to own at least two Cadillacs when at the same time there are too many who are scrounging to pay bus fair to get to their low-wage paying jobs flipping burgers at McDonalds or operating a cash register at WallMart. Calling all of these unfortunate individuals bums and freeloaders will only hasten the inevitable revolution, because eventually they won't put up with it anymore, no matter what it costs them. If they have nothing else to loose... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Some clarification is needed... Your use of the term "Coherent" is haphazard at best. I'd also have to say that it's 'you' who are barely coherent. I can also safely assume that you haven't made use of those two glands (called eyes) located just above your nose to either side. If in your relatively short life you had ever spent any amount of time looking up into the night sky, you would at least have an "idea" of what I am talking about, as to *Other* Craft up in Space that emit Light and/or reflect it. IF you had conditioned or trained your eyes to be as keen or sharp as mine, you would be able to distinguish the relative speeds & altitudes of all the Air or Jet planes from *that* which operates up in space independently of "our" space-junk and/or debris in the many thousands, of pieces or chunks, plus, various other Countries orbiting spacecraft, space-station, satellites, etc. etc.. So, everything I've seen over the many years, along with what I'm quite confident are numerous original authentic genuine first-hand eyewitness accounts or encounters of numerous people in all walks-of-life who have seen these craft and/or its occupants, simply put, cannot be mistaken for anything other than what it is. It comes down to a relatively simple matter of "our" perception abilities, and what we tend to accept as normal according to our conventional standard of thinking, understanding, wisdom, so on & so forth. Even-tho the people who have witnessed these craft or occupants will typically tend to be regarded by most deceptive misleading manipulative people that are unreliable, mistaken, untrained, or whathaveyou, the hard fact remains that these encounters have occurred, are occurring, and likely will occur (as required... because you know, that word gets out, and it has a direct or indirect influence in society). The subject of UFO's (as in advanced civilizations spacecraft or technology) comes down to simple matter of a *reality* that is more real and/or capable than "we" are able to rationalise, at this point in time. This *other* matter will require if not demand a whole complete new approach on our part as to how energy, propulsion & *being* can be all integrated highly compatably into one powerfully efficient system which can operate in a whole complete highly siphisticated capacity, 'second to none'. Most assuredly, this highly developed system/process is enabling *them* to be up there, in the absolute or without fail. The fact is that whenever one, or a few of "us" are confronted with these vehicles and it's occupants, it can tend to frighten the you-know-what out of us, and/or have a very profound impact, which can actually have a very real effect on society that undergoes an adjustment of a sort that is barely even recognized or acknowledged in any way. So, there you have my comments (coherency included) and if you can't understand it, then I would say the trouble lies with you and/or your ability to come to terms with a far more capable & enduring mode of being and/or existence that is most certainly at least several, if not 10's & 100's of millions and/or billions of years ahead of us (as in, this biologically dependent human mode of being, limited or confined essentially only to this earthbound existence). And, I also need to correct some miswording in my comment that... "We" are *Their* bread & butter (what makes the world go round) and *They* are "Ours". I would have to say that this is a fact that simply will not be fully known by this civilization until we and our whole way-of-life is long-since obsolete. I think it might helps to think of it in-terms of "Progress" Here you go; Now just look at the amount of time that has transpired that lead up to our current human being, from all th
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Peter, did you live through this type of environment? I have friends that witnessed it first hand in Cuba. Production all but faded away once workers realized that they got paid whether or not they put forth any effort. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, Oct 5, 2012 12:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized What Jojo says, was done in practice in all the communist societies, greater flats were shared by 2-5 families, one bathroom, one kitchen- you can imagine what has happened: eternal quarrels, fights, stress, hatred, noise, dirt, vendettas. I think you have not watched many Soviet movies from the 1930 in which the situation was presented in an idealized form. Redistribution is not a solution and it is only temporary, please read about Mediocristan and and Extremistan in Taleb's Black Swan. Inequality is a fundamental law of Nature, all you can do socially is minor adjustments at the extremes, but it is not easy to act wisely. Peter On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: A redistributist economy is inevitable. I say this sadly because I have libertarian impulses but realize that technology is leading us into a state like StarTrek - in which no one has secure employment except for the guy who fixes the Replicator. -Original Message- From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:58 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized Hoorah!!! let's steal from the rich to redistribute to all the lazy bums out there. I wonder how you would feel if I confiscated your house and let homeless people live there with you. I'm pretty sure you would welcome that and enjoy it. What a moron! Jojo - Original Message - From: "OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the > impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil > miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in > so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the > alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - > yada-yada and so forth. > > Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our > psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for > good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our > ancient ancestors survive slim-pickens, such as when hunting for game > was at best a precarious job skill, and famine prevailed throughout > the land. > > However, today the entire world is slowing transforming (granted, in > fits and starts) into a technologically automated society, where most > of our needs will available to us via technology, through the wonders > of automation and robotics. The absolute need to follow many of our > prior genetically built-in biological imperatives, particularly the > greed to amass as much money as one can (and all the privileges > associated with "money) is becoming increasingly more > counterproductive. > > A modern working-class society, a modern economy cannot flourish > unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" > in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly > created by the working class. If too much discretionary currency ends > up in the coffers of just a few rich and powerful individuals and > corporations the economy of the majority of working class citizens > collapses because of working classes' inability to support it. > > That's were government regulation has to step in and help level the > playing field. It will not be easy, nor will all adjustments be > perfect. Needless to say, the Rich and Powerful will resist. The Tea > Party will resist! ;-) Just keep in mind, however, that it's just our > genes telling to prepare for famine. But this time... maybe this time > we don't have to believe "famine" is just around the corner, not when > technology, automation, and robotics are rapidly becoming the new > underclass of our modern society. It's an underclass that will never > demand expensive health insurance, or join a union and constantly go > on strike for a pay raise. > > Unfortunately, old habits - particularly some of those faithful genes > associated with greed - are going to be with us for a very long time. > > This will be an interesting presidential election. I hope it won't be > ruled by our genes. > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
These discussions about the rich are starting to sound like generals in WW2, prepared to fight the previous war. I have not read a single commentator talk about the future problem of being rich: first, as to stocks, the markets are highly correlated - even more so than in the '08 crash. Second, cash held has to be denominated in some nation's currency - which is a big problem since few if any of them can come close to balancing their budgets. Third, gold and silver may plunge along with everything else in a deflationary crash. In summary, if you're at the top of the pyramid, it might be well to consider the many layers that support your position above it all. Instead of the Biblical, 'every man with his own vine and fig tree', I hope we end up with free energy and "Santa Claus" machines for all. ( a Sci Fi reference) From: Jouni Valkonen [mailto:jounivalko...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 12:27 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized hello Jojo, This Guardian article answers on behalf of me to you. You will probably just ignore this article, because it does not fit on your ideology, but still I would appreciate if you would take a look at it. Things are not always as rosy as they are meant to be. It is extremely rare that the richest are hard working entrepreneurs who are creating valuable innovations out of their irreplaceable mind. Mitt Romney and the myth of self-created millionaires The parasitical ultra-rich often deny the role of others in the acquisition of their wealth - and even seek to punish them for it http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/mitt-romney-self-creation-myth No, almost all the very richests are financial speculators who are utilizing loopholes in legislation often by avoiding regulations recycling dirty money through offshore islands. Therefore they are more like criminals, because their contribution does not add value to the society, but is almost always destructive. E.g. Gina gathered huge profit from Australian housing bubble and the ones who paid her profit were common hard working Australian house owners, whom you classified as gluttonous, rebellious and lazy people. I am personally huge fan on Elon Musk, who is the living proof that single person can make the difference. However Elon is extremely rare example of the classical hero of capitalism. There are just not too many of those on the Forbes billionaire list who are also the chief designers of the best rocket ever built, i.e. Falcon 9, that is to be launched for the first commercial operation at this Sunday. I apologize about the political nature of this message, but I would guess that due to elections they should be tolerated if they are not leading into flooding the mailing list. -jouni On 3 October 2012 05:42, Jojo Jaro mailto:jth...@hotmail.com>> wrote: This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive and at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is the panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons than any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the US has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). Jojo PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin and rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen<mailto:jounivalko...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust distribution of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into criminality if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed to live. Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic needs, there w
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Since Jojo is now on my filter list this "moron" is fortunate to avoid being subjected to most of his take on philanthropy, except that is when he is copied. Granted, I must confess the fact that I was secretly hoping to bate Jojo into responding to some of my so-called radical opinions. ... and he did. Occasionally, Jojo is very predictable. IMHO, Jojo's philosophy is better expressed within the context of following script: * LADY: Many thousands only want the common necessities of life. LADY 2: Hundreds and thousands are in want of common comfort, Sir. SCROOGE: Are there no prisons? LADIES: Oh, yes, plenty of prisons! SCROOGE: And the workhouses, have they all closed down? LADY: Oh no, they have not. I wish I could say they had. SCROOGE: I was afraid from what you said that something had occured that would stop them in their useful work. I am glad to hear it is not so. LADY: Oh, but sir, realizing that neither the prisons nor the workhouses can provide any Christian cheer to either mind or body, we are trying to raise some money to buy the poor a little meat, and drink, and means of keeping warm at this so very special time of year, they are most in need. How much shall we put you down for, Sir? SCROOGE: Nothing. LADY: Oh! Sir, you wish to remain anonymous? SCROOGE: Ladies, since you ask me what I wish...I do not make myself Merry at Christmas, and I cannot afford to make idle people merry. If they are poor, I have to support the prisons and the workhouses from my taxes. They cost enough. And those who are poor must go there. LADY 2: Well, you can't go there. Many would rather die. SCROOGE: If they would rather die, they had better do it, and reduce the surplus population. Good day, ladies. ** From: A Christmas Carroll http://www.scribd.com/doc/47814316/Christmas-Carol-Script Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
there is truths and error in boths , even moderate, vision... I've read in "the next convergence" a much more rational analysis of how to organize free market, social protection, regulation, protectionism, currency manipulation. one basic of that author vision is that the best way to increase wealth is big growth to catchup rich high-tech countries. It is a question of infrastructure, but also of knowledge transfer, that need a good context, education technical infrastructure, governance, but als inclusiveness, feeling of justice, leading to supporting the temporary pain of structural change. the idea of convergence is that you need to make strong structural change in permanence. no recepi of sucess work for a decade. You shoul not protect the jobs, but you have to protect the people so they can adapt to the new jobs, with education. you have not to help them to stay in the old industry, but you can protect you industry, and the people, for a short time so they can adapt and so that the new jobs are created not too late from de destructions of old jobs... the basic of good attitude is not adapt roughly, without too much ideoloy, see how is does works, correct quicly, and accept imperfection, but refuse comfort and statu-quo... redistribution is needed, to allow a feeling of justic, but inequality will increase. however unlike in locked economy, the inequalities won't be because of cast or family history, but because of luck (right time, right place, some talent, and they will be temporary... What is the enemy of economy is "economic rent", monopoly, and other comfort of the dominant actors... wealth can be accepted, but it should be on the edge, and poverty should be belended and temporary... but not comportable... just temporary, motivating,and the system shoul avoid to destroy active force, and help them to update their competences. it looks quite cold blooded but it is also humanist, since it helps all a populatio to live better, even if everybody, even the rich, have his butt kicked some times. kicked, not blasted. this book is interesting. And very critic to most occidental policy, libertarian or social-democrats. 2012/10/5 Peter Gluck > What Jojo says, was done in practice in all the communist societies, > greater flats were shared by 2-5 families, one bathroom, one kitchen- you > can imagine what has happened: eternal quarrels, fights, stress, hatred, > noise, dirt, vendettas. > I think you have not watched many Soviet movies > from the 1930 in which the situation was presented in an idealized form. > > Redistribution is not a solution and it is only temporary, please read > about Mediocristan and > and Extremistan in Taleb's Black Swan. > Inequality is a fundamental law of Nature, all you can do socially is > minor adjustments at the extremes, but it is not easy to act wisely. > > Peter > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: > >> A redistributist economy is inevitable. I say this sadly because I have >> libertarian impulses but realize that technology is leading us into a state >> like StarTrek - in which no one has secure employment except for the guy >> who fixes the Replicator. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:58 AM >> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized >> >> Hoorah!!! let's steal from the rich to redistribute to all the lazy bums >> out there. I wonder how you would feel if I confiscated your house and let >> homeless people live there with you. I'm pretty sure you would welcome >> that and enjoy it. >> >> What a moron! >> >> >> >> Jojo >> >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized >> >> >> > It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the >> > impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil >> > miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in >> > so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the >> > alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - >> > yada-yada and so forth. >> > >> > Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our >> > psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for >> > good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our >> > ancient ancestors survive slim
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
hello Jojo, This Guardian article answers on behalf of me to you. You will probably just ignore this article, because it does not fit on your ideology, but still I would appreciate if you would take a look at it. Things are not always as rosy as they are meant to be. It is extremely rare that the richest are hard working entrepreneurs who are creating valuable innovations out of their irreplaceable mind. *Mitt Romney and the myth of self-created millionaires* *The parasitical ultra-rich often deny the role of others in the acquisition of their wealth – and even seek to punish them for it* http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/mitt-romney-self-creation-myth No, almost all the very richests are financial speculators who are utilizing loopholes in legislation often by avoiding regulations recycling dirty money through offshore islands. Therefore they are more like criminals, because their contribution does not add value to the society, but is almost always destructive. E.g. Gina gathered huge profit from Australian housing bubble and the ones who paid her profit were common hard working Australian house owners, whom you classified as gluttonous, rebellious and lazy people. I am personally huge fan on Elon Musk, who is the living proof that single person can make the difference. However Elon is extremely rare example of the classical hero of capitalism. There are just not too many of those on the Forbes billionaire list who are also the chief designers of the best rocket ever built, i.e. Falcon 9, that is to be launched for the first commercial operation at this Sunday. I apologize about the political nature of this message, but I would guess that due to elections they should be tolerated if they are not leading into flooding the mailing list. —jouni On 3 October 2012 05:42, Jojo Jaro wrote: > ** > This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive > and at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of > socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is > the panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who > work hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure > sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. > > Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and > criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, > including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty > stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources > and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons than > any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the > US has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). > > > Jojo > > > PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin > and rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. > > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Jouni Valkonen > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer > Seized > > > I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty > from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust > distribution of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort > into criminality if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, > but because children are crown in the conditions where no children should > be allowed to live. > > Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each > individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily > by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic > needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent larger > scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free education. > >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
What Jojo says, was done in practice in all the communist societies, greater flats were shared by 2-5 families, one bathroom, one kitchen- you can imagine what has happened: eternal quarrels, fights, stress, hatred, noise, dirt, vendettas. I think you have not watched many Soviet movies from the 1930 in which the situation was presented in an idealized form. Redistribution is not a solution and it is only temporary, please read about Mediocristan and and Extremistan in Taleb's Black Swan. Inequality is a fundamental law of Nature, all you can do socially is minor adjustments at the extremes, but it is not easy to act wisely. Peter On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: > A redistributist economy is inevitable. I say this sadly because I have > libertarian impulses but realize that technology is leading us into a state > like StarTrek - in which no one has secure employment except for the guy > who fixes the Replicator. > > -Original Message- > From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:58 AM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > Hoorah!!! let's steal from the rich to redistribute to all the lazy bums > out there. I wonder how you would feel if I confiscated your house and let > homeless people live there with you. I'm pretty sure you would welcome > that and enjoy it. > > What a moron! > > > > Jojo > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > > > It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the > > impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil > > miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in > > so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the > > alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - > > yada-yada and so forth. > > > > Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our > > psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for > > good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our > > ancient ancestors survive slim-pickens, such as when hunting for game > > was at best a precarious job skill, and famine prevailed throughout > > the land. > > > > However, today the entire world is slowing transforming (granted, in > > fits and starts) into a technologically automated society, where most > > of our needs will available to us via technology, through the wonders > > of automation and robotics. The absolute need to follow many of our > > prior genetically built-in biological imperatives, particularly the > > greed to amass as much money as one can (and all the privileges > > associated with "money) is becoming increasingly more > > counterproductive. > > > > A modern working-class society, a modern economy cannot flourish > > unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" > > in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly > > created by the working class. If too much discretionary currency ends > > up in the coffers of just a few rich and powerful individuals and > > corporations the economy of the majority of working class citizens > > collapses because of working classes' inability to support it. > > > > That's were government regulation has to step in and help level the > > playing field. It will not be easy, nor will all adjustments be > > perfect. Needless to say, the Rich and Powerful will resist. The Tea > > Party will resist! ;-) Just keep in mind, however, that it's just our > > genes telling to prepare for famine. But this time... maybe this time > > we don't have to believe "famine" is just around the corner, not when > > technology, automation, and robotics are rapidly becoming the new > > underclass of our modern society. It's an underclass that will never > > demand expensive health insurance, or join a union and constantly go > > on strike for a pay raise. > > > > Unfortunately, old habits - particularly some of those faithful genes > > associated with greed - are going to be with us for a very long time. > > > > This will be an interesting presidential election. I hope it won't be > > ruled by our genes. > > > > Regards > > Steven Vincent Johnson > > www.OrionWorks.com > > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > > > > > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
A redistributist economy is inevitable. I say this sadly because I have libertarian impulses but realize that technology is leading us into a state like StarTrek - in which no one has secure employment except for the guy who fixes the Replicator. -Original Message- From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:58 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized Hoorah!!! let's steal from the rich to redistribute to all the lazy bums out there. I wonder how you would feel if I confiscated your house and let homeless people live there with you. I'm pretty sure you would welcome that and enjoy it. What a moron! Jojo - Original Message - From: "OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the > impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil > miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in > so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the > alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - > yada-yada and so forth. > > Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our > psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for > good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our > ancient ancestors survive slim-pickens, such as when hunting for game > was at best a precarious job skill, and famine prevailed throughout > the land. > > However, today the entire world is slowing transforming (granted, in > fits and starts) into a technologically automated society, where most > of our needs will available to us via technology, through the wonders > of automation and robotics. The absolute need to follow many of our > prior genetically built-in biological imperatives, particularly the > greed to amass as much money as one can (and all the privileges > associated with "money) is becoming increasingly more > counterproductive. > > A modern working-class society, a modern economy cannot flourish > unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" > in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly > created by the working class. If too much discretionary currency ends > up in the coffers of just a few rich and powerful individuals and > corporations the economy of the majority of working class citizens > collapses because of working classes' inability to support it. > > That's were government regulation has to step in and help level the > playing field. It will not be easy, nor will all adjustments be > perfect. Needless to say, the Rich and Powerful will resist. The Tea > Party will resist! ;-) Just keep in mind, however, that it's just our > genes telling to prepare for famine. But this time... maybe this time > we don't have to believe "famine" is just around the corner, not when > technology, automation, and robotics are rapidly becoming the new > underclass of our modern society. It's an underclass that will never > demand expensive health insurance, or join a union and constantly go > on strike for a pay raise. > > Unfortunately, old habits - particularly some of those faithful genes > associated with greed - are going to be with us for a very long time. > > This will be an interesting presidential election. I hope it won't be > ruled by our genes. > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Hoorah!!! let's steal from the rich to redistribute to all the lazy bums out there. I wonder how you would feel if I confiscated your house and let homeless people live there with you. I'm pretty sure you would welcome that and enjoy it. What a moron! Jojo - Original Message - From: "OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - yada-yada and so forth. Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our ancient ancestors survive slim-pickens, such as when hunting for game was at best a precarious job skill, and famine prevailed throughout the land. However, today the entire world is slowing transforming (granted, in fits and starts) into a technologically automated society, where most of our needs will available to us via technology, through the wonders of automation and robotics. The absolute need to follow many of our prior genetically built-in biological imperatives, particularly the greed to amass as much money as one can (and all the privileges associated with "money) is becoming increasingly more counterproductive. A modern working-class society, a modern economy cannot flourish unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly created by the working class. If too much discretionary currency ends up in the coffers of just a few rich and powerful individuals and corporations the economy of the majority of working class citizens collapses because of working classes' inability to support it. That's were government regulation has to step in and help level the playing field. It will not be easy, nor will all adjustments be perfect. Needless to say, the Rich and Powerful will resist. The Tea Party will resist! ;-) Just keep in mind, however, that it's just our genes telling to prepare for famine. But this time... maybe this time we don't have to believe "famine" is just around the corner, not when technology, automation, and robotics are rapidly becoming the new underclass of our modern society. It's an underclass that will never demand expensive health insurance, or join a union and constantly go on strike for a pay raise. Unfortunately, old habits - particularly some of those faithful genes associated with greed - are going to be with us for a very long time. This will be an interesting presidential election. I hope it won't be ruled by our genes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
It's possible my recent little mini-rant gave many Vorts the impression that I believe that the "Rich and Powerful" are evil miscreants, that I believe the majority of U.S. citizens who reside in so-called 98% under/middle class should rise up and overthrow the alleged tyranny of the greedy, the so-called "Rich and Powerful" - yada-yada and so forth. Personally, I suspect "greed" is a natural component of our psychological and physiological makeup. It's in our genes, and for good reason. Greed, specifically the action of hoarding helped our ancient ancestors survive slim-pickens, such as when hunting for game was at best a precarious job skill, and famine prevailed throughout the land. However, today the entire world is slowing transforming (granted, in fits and starts) into a technologically automated society, where most of our needs will available to us via technology, through the wonders of automation and robotics. The absolute need to follow many of our prior genetically built-in biological imperatives, particularly the greed to amass as much money as one can (and all the privileges associated with "money) is becoming increasingly more counterproductive. A modern working-class society, a modern economy cannot flourish unless the middle class can secure sufficient discretionary "income" in which to purchase goods and services that in-turn are mostly created by the working class. If too much discretionary currency ends up in the coffers of just a few rich and powerful individuals and corporations the economy of the majority of working class citizens collapses because of working classes' inability to support it. That's were government regulation has to step in and help level the playing field. It will not be easy, nor will all adjustments be perfect. Needless to say, the Rich and Powerful will resist. The Tea Party will resist! ;-) Just keep in mind, however, that it's just our genes telling to prepare for famine. But this time... maybe this time we don't have to believe "famine" is just around the corner, not when technology, automation, and robotics are rapidly becoming the new underclass of our modern society. It's an underclass that will never demand expensive health insurance, or join a union and constantly go on strike for a pay raise. Unfortunately, old habits - particularly some of those faithful genes associated with greed - are going to be with us for a very long time. This will be an interesting presidential election. I hope it won't be ruled by our genes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
>From David: > It has long been my belief that the government uses inflation to > pay off the debts that are incurred. This is a great way to take > away assets from those who hold them in the form of cash equivalents. > The recent actions of the FED will result in dangerous inflation so > now is a good time to borrow as much as you can at low fixed rates > for the longest period possible. I saw a reference that suggested > that a 30 year home mortgage rate is 3.36%; what a deal. I am in agreement... However, I suspect governments have no choice left in their arsenal but to eventually print up extra greenbacks and start another uncomfortable cycle of higher-than-normal inflation. It is the only way I know how governments can rebalance their books and pay off the previous administration's predilections to instigate expensive and unnecessary wars. If the rich and powerful refuse to pay taxes, inflation is the only practical economic method left that I know of on how governments can redistribute wealth back to the needy which has been systematically sapped by the rich and powerful. The horribly bad thing about inflation is that it takes a terrible toll on individuals with fixed income incomes, like retirees and the disabled. Hopefully the government can compensate them. The rich and powerful will of course rail against such policies and point out how it will ravage the bank accounts of the poor and their meager. The rich and powerful will do their best to frighten the bejesus out of everyone especially the poor, which the Tea Party seems to be doing quite well these days. But what most of the rich and powerful are not saying, and what they are really scared about is the fact that it's their OWN damned money, their OWN power base, that they are really worried about losing. However, they are rich. They are still powerful. They can afford it. They just don't want to afford it, not if they can help it. The problem is that the poor can't afford it, unless the government compensates them. But for government to compensate the poor, the rich and powerful will have to realize the fact that it's their own wealth that is being reduced - and they won't stand for it, not if they can help it. It's a vicious cycle. Hopefully, an administration with enough guts will prevail and help redistribute the nation's wealth back to a more economically healthy levels. The current levels. the current economic distribution is horribly out of skew. BTW, home mortgages are now at all time lows: 2.75% I've personally never experienced rates this low in my life. I've heard they may stay this low for possibly another year or so. This is the time to refinance. We just did. helping to redistributing "wealth" one household at a time. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
It has long been my belief that the government uses inflation to pay off the debts that are incurred. This is a great way to take away assets from those who hold them in the form of cash equivalents. The recent actions of the FED will result in dangerous inflation so now is a good time to borrow as much as you can at low fixed rates for the longest period possible. I saw a reference that suggested that a 30 year home mortgage rate is 3.36%; what a deal. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 11:46 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized In reply to fznidar...@aol.com's message of Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] >Jojo Jaro > > >Did you watch the debate. Romney will not increase taxes, not reduce military spending, not reduce social spending, not reduce entitlements, and, in the process, reduce the dept. > > >Why would you vote for someone who cannot add? Smoke and mirrors never works. That's easy to do. Cancel the bonds held by the Federal reserve, received in exchange for printed money. ;) IOW simply declare the debt null and void, then print greenbacks again. Note that it's not so much the debt that is a problem, as the interest paid on the bonds. Because of this, when the Fed. came out with QE3 all they were really saying is "we have decided to give ourselves billions of your dollars regularly, more of less indefinitely, while telling you that we are helping the economy". No wonder some observers have been wondering just how much "good" it will do. :) BTW does anyone know if bonds are redeemed when old Federal reserve notes are taken out of circulation? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
In reply to fznidar...@aol.com's message of Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] >Jojo Jaro > > >Did you watch the debate. Romney will not increase taxes, not reduce military >spending, not reduce social spending, not reduce entitlements, and, in the >process, reduce the dept. > > >Why would you vote for someone who cannot add? Smoke and mirrors never works. That's easy to do. Cancel the bonds held by the Federal reserve, received in exchange for printed money. ;) IOW simply declare the debt null and void, then print greenbacks again. Note that it's not so much the debt that is a problem, as the interest paid on the bonds. Because of this, when the Fed. came out with QE3 all they were really saying is "we have decided to give ourselves billions of your dollars regularly, more of less indefinitely, while telling you that we are helping the economy". No wonder some observers have been wondering just how much "good" it will do. :) BTW does anyone know if bonds are redeemed when old Federal reserve notes are taken out of circulation? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Now, how would you *know* that for sure?. I also think it's important to point out that it's more likely that its You, or Us, who are Alien. Everything that "We" don't know, in this vast universe, of which, is about everything there is, is Alien to Us. You need simply to forget the word "Alien" altogether, then and only then, will you make some real progress. We (as in human beings) live in very small world down here, and the highly advanced civilizations that are countless millions years ahead of us, can only "naturally" seem "Alien" to us. And "prattling on" as you call it, is all we do and/or will, until we're all long gone. << I think I prefer it when you prattle on about alien civilizations. You are very slightly more coherent on that subject. I should know because I tend to use words that make me think that I am. Andy. >>
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Nope, you confirmed that you're the Alien. Anyway, the Dinosauurs had no concept of being a Dinosaur, they just did the only thing they could, and by no fault of their own and/or an act of god, became extinct. Now, aren't you glad that you don't have worry about waking up in the morning and being chased by a pack of Velociraptors or T-Rex or all the other carnivores. Now, just think if only you had just one inkling of the remostest chance of having a clue about the future, and I would almost be willing to bet that you and many others would have done something about it while yuo could. The problem with the future of this biologically dependent human condition is that in 100 thousands years it will all but have been completely become obsolete. A real future or a more true pure trouble-free newfound mobility and/or technological based life will have begun by then, in that a "real life" In Space will be somewhat secure or viable. While it is quite difficult to reason or rationalise just how far back in time this human mode of being is, it nevertheless is all we can handle for the time being. The future at some point will be Mickey Mouse free, and consist-in nothing less than an absolute precise, efficient, second to none highly compatable instantaneous system, which could hardly be understood or realized by our current methods or standards. Judging by what I've seen (it's a given really, because my eyes and/or senses are significantly more acutely attuned and/or trained) it cannot be denied or disregarded that extremely highly or ungodly advanced civilizations clearly not only exist but are operating In Space. What is now become almost a joke to me is how "we" can only hope to point the finger at ourselves, until we and/or this severely lacking means of technology and/or mode of being has all but been replaced with something far more viable, capable, & enduring A Perfected Independent Highly Complex Sophisticated State of Technological Being is currently operating this Earth and/or Star System, and likely, many similar, or not as far, or, further along, and/or all points between, thruout this galaxy and likely al the rest thruout the universe So, whether or not if you've ever bothered to look past the end of your nose to see the obvious in front of you, it's "still" quite unlikely you would have figured out your butt from a hole in the ground, while among the living dead. Not only has Supreme Technological Being left this ground-based restricted limited human being so very far behind and/or right where it is, but also enabling it to be, in that *They* are directly involved in every aspect facet of our being & progress... such as life!. It'll help to think of it like this we're *their* bread & butter, and they ares. The world & us are an integral part of the ongoing process of the cycle of life, and altho we are rather hopelessly incapable and have a god awful long way to go before we can travel the stars w/o trouble or fail, we could get a jump on it and get up there sooner, rather than, maybe never... you never know what you can do, until you try! << Yup, this confirms it. Stick to the alien/ancient civilizations. I prefer it muchly. Andy ;-) >>
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ill-fated
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Now please, whatever you do, DON'T try to tell me that the Great Annointed Messiah of a Wannabe Dictator is a Mathematical Genius, because he knows "exactly" how to con, swindle, bribe, coerce, corrupt, and threaten every gullible naive weak minded fool and/or tax payer, and ALL for the chance to watch this Countries first truly fraud fake illegal illegitimate imposter as he travels about the world on his holy fundraising tour, & golfing, shopping, anti sentiment speeches that generally denounce America because it's people haven't given everything away to all the low life slime that tends infest the planet. Heres what we currently have misoccupying "Our" illfaded White House (illegally). BO (the monkey genius posing as a man) is "King" because he has been granted dominion over all Human Beings by "Allah" The Almighty Dallah, and/or Mahominid the greatest Virgin keeper or Molester to ever walk among animals. First, we all must remember that our great illegitimate leader while spending millions of taxpayer dollars to keep all his records sealed, while being a strong proponent for everyone that runs for the Presidency should reveal theirs (lets see, double standard apply here, or how about pure hypocracy). Now then, lets consider where BO comes from - a part of Africa close to where Mogabi The Thugly Ruler confiscated everything from the Whities and ousted them, of which all went to hell and now have to import everything(sounds promising!). Now, at about the age of 6, BO traveled to Indonesia to learn about the stoned age teachings of muzzleheaded brotherhood and shria law and/or how to partake in the destruction of the modern civilized world. Then at the age of 11 it was off to Hawai to obtain his forged birth certificate so he could infiltrate America and become friendly with some easily influenced gullible fools so he could begin on his road to success. Lets see now what exacttly we have misoccupying the Illfaded White House, an anti American who essentially despises rules regulations laws & anything that a civilized truly "free" intelligent human being does, and/or "Our" way of life. Once here BO then attended (?) Law School, essentially, to use it "against" the people of this country. He partook in all the things that regular good old black folks do, and he also got in thick with a White terrorist named Bill Airhead (BO's idol), and Rev. Wrong, and all the more respected leders that seem to take naturally to hating this Country, (mainly (because "We The People" are not truly of the Animal Kingdom). Now then, BO obtained a Senator Seat (because of his lust for power) and was well on his way to weaseling his way into the Political System. He was already a great Communist, uh, rather I mean, Community Organizer and so naturally his next move was to run for the Presidency, where of course he could turn this Country into his own personal zoo. So now, we've had almost 4 wonderful years of total complete BS, and, who in their right mind wouldn't want 4 more years of it? Now, you really shouldn't even consider voting for Romney, because he simply has too much trouble with numbers, and God knows that if you have trouble with numbers, then yuo're likely not going to get away with corruption and/or as easily being corrupted, and that simply will cause BO and his gullible followers alot of problems. Now here's my solution to the problem first, austerity measures and/or reduce the amount of benefits package/pension plans for all Politicians, & Government or State Employees (you know, career politicians, and/or absolute power corrupts absolutely) and do thorough background checks on terrorists seeking power and/or attempting to coerce and/or indoctrinate as many citizens of this Country as possible who will unwittingly sign-up to participate in (their demise) celebrating their independence. And BTW, whenever I inadvertently or haphazardly look at and/or hear BO, I have to force myself to remember that I should al
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Who says I was voting for that moron, err... mormon? Although at least he has some of the right ideas? But one thing for sure, I am not voitng for the Usurper-in-Chief. In fact, I'm pretty sure your Usurper-in-Chief will win. Just don't come crying when we get a currency collapse, hyperinflation and social anarchy. That is what you're going to get with your commie criminal-in-chief. When he attempts a power grab and declare himself the permanent US president and declare Martial Law, I'll be laughing at your sorrows, and your naivete, err... stupidity. Jojo - Original Message - From: fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized Jojo Jaro Did you watch the debate. Romney will not increase taxes, not reduce military spending, not reduce social spending, not reduce entitlements, and, in the process, reduce the dept. Why would you vote for someone who cannot add? Smoke and mirrors never works. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Jojo Jaro Did you watch the debate. Romney will not increase taxes, not reduce military spending, not reduce social spending, not reduce entitlements, and, in the process, reduce the dept. Why would you vote for someone who cannot add? Smoke and mirrors never works. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
How does one measure "hard work"? How much harder does Bill Gates work in comparison to someone who works two jobs at minimum wage? Do you seriously he imagine he works 100 times harder if his income is 100 times greater? Do you believe a man with backhoe works 100 times harder than a man with shovel? Harry On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: > This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive and > at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of > socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is the > panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work > hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure > sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. > > Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and > criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, > including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty > stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources > and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons than > any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the US > has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). > > > Jojo > > > PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin and > rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. > > > - Original Message - > From: Jouni Valkonen > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized > > > I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty > from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust distribution > of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into criminality > if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because > children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed to > live. > > Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each > individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily > by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic > needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent larger > scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free education. >
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
Because there is alot more to steal, and therefore great motivation to steal it. They come here from all around the globe to try to get their hand on this Countries wealth in one way or another. I mean, look what has slimed it's way into the ill-faded White House. The way I see it is, If you don't "vote" for Romney, then you "empower" a Dictator. You might as well stick a fork is us, cause were done IF this Illegal imposter fraud is allowed to walk all over us. Now, of course, this is what we get for being generous, compassionate, thoughtful, kind, and/or too giving Give'm an inch, and they'll take a mile. A fool and their money are soon departed. And my favorite, "you don't know what you got, till its gone". To me, Obama in the White House can only mean that we the "true" people of this country and/or any other one, have a very valueable lesson to learn about Freedom. The only thing BO actually cares about is himself, and the legitimate "true" people of this Country are simply to be worked & played by BO's thugly band of mental midget supporters until we are walked over like a stampede of animals. Anyone oppossing him, will have to be silenced and/or eliminated. So, everyone out there who has negative anti-sentiments or pure hatred for our means of government, democracy, establishment, judicial or political system, and everything else that was keeping the animals from taking over the zoo. While crony capitalism has lead to the current crony communism now falsely occupying the IL-faded White House, *We* must view it as a serious lesson to learn from, and make sure it doean't happen again. There are many currently walking among US that would like to get their grubby mitts on everything you own and/or would enjoy seeing this Country fail or be destroyed. That way, the Dictators thruout the world can once again begin implementation of their plans to militarily controll everyone & thing. Obama *IS* nothing more than an "illegal", and everything he has done since illegally obtaining the Presidency, is null, void, and needs to be thrown-out, with him. No matter how many umpteen times a minute, whenever you turn on a radio, Tv, or online, and see or hear Obama being referred to as The President, he ISN'T, CAN'T and NEVER will be. IF he is, then *We* the True Free People of this Country and/or the World will be no more. So please whatever you do in the final vote count of the upcoming election... DO NOT empower this wannabe Thug Of A Dictator, because it cannot work to anyones advantage, except BOs... and that IS the" Mentality" which "We" have enabled to literally walk right in this Country and "seize" controll of our lives... Fools!!! Sucka's!!! and don't forget to donate to your local humane society! << Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the US has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). Jojo >>
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
This idea that poverty is the root cause of criminality is at best naive and at worst moronic. This can only come from the liberal minds of socialistic/communistic people who think that "Income Redistribution" is the panacea for all societal ills. My friend, stealing from people who work hard for their income and redistribute it to lazy bums will not cure sociatal ills. You are smarter than to believe in that solution. Let's take a real life example. The United States has more felons and criminals on a per capita basis than any other country in the world, including such 4th world countries like the Philippines who are poverty stricken to the core. The United States is flushed in food and resources and conveniences, and yet manage to produce more criminals and felons than any other country. Please, I would like to hear your explanation why the US has more criminals than the Philippines (on a per capita basis). Jojo PS. The root cause of crime is not poverty. but rather the inherent sin and rebellion in the hearts of a glutonous, rebellious and lazy society. - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust distribution of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into criminality if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed to live. Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent larger scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free education.
Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized
This is indeed a problem. Best 3D-printers can already produce jet engine grade components, although this technology is not yet available for the public. However it will be available some time in near future. Actually jet engine companies such as Rolls-royce does pursue 3D-printing not because it is cheaper, but because it promises lighter and higher quality components for the jet engines, because the metal alloy produced is almost without structural flaws that are inherent for the traditional metal manufacturing techniques. I would think that only way to combat this problem is to eliminate poverty from the society. About 95% of the criminality is due to unjust distribution of wealth. This is not that individual humans would resort into criminality if they fail to find job due to high unemployment rates, but because children are crown in the conditions where no children should be allowed to live. Best way to eliminate poverty is to set zero income level for each individuals into 1000-2000 dollars per month. This can be done quite easily by distributing income more justly. When there is no scarcity of the basic needs, there won't be breeding grounds for violent gangs and violent larger scale religions, because every child will get a proper and free education. Therefore weapons of mass destruction that can be 3D-printed in near future, does not posses major thread for the security of the society. If we do not have injustice, then people do not have urge to print and use weapons of mass destruction. Of course there will be always some individual lunatics, but if there is no organised violence, there should not be too much problems that we cannot handle. I really mean weapons of mass destruction. Imagine 3D-printed fully working nuclear bomb that only requires after printing to add the plutonium that is stolen from the Russia, North Korea, Iran or Libya. Of course this just extreme. Almost any weapons that can be imagined can also be printed. And better yet, 3D-printing does allow completely new designs for the weapons that we cannot yet imagine! ―Jouni Ps. I would not think that there could be less off topic post than this! On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Yikes! Didn't think of this . . . > > See: > > http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/10/02/_3d_printed_gun_wiki_weapon_on_hold_after_stratasys_revokes_lease_on_printer.html > > Every technology, no matter how good, can be used in harmful ways. > > - Jed >
