Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Steve, I do not think the issues with 'bad press' is a big obstacle for LENR. Irritating for people who knows better. This newly proposed association will handle such issues through association with stronger associations. If and when we have sorted out things and can show a life LENR ready for the market the whole issue of deployments are depending on other factors I have mentioned before marketing etc. Axil, I have read your suggested papers and I think that was very interesting. A few new things (for me) but under all circumstances a good story and given the history I think it is easy to see how the future will play out. I am sure you must agree that it is not going to happen fast. I think it is at least ten years until we can go to Home Depot and buy a LENR. (If we have a working product this year.) Angela Merkel is a politician. She wants to steer Germany away from nuclear energy because it create votes from them who fear nuclear energy because of Fukushima. LENR, which to her will sound as 'a half baked idea based on nuclear power'. She will not touch that with a ten foot pole. Too complicated to present, too little general support and great risk for losing face. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-spotlights-germanys-nuclear-power-switch-173155269.html *Ukraine spotlights Germany's nuclear power switch* BERLIN (AP) -- The crisis in Ukraine has added an extra dose of uncertainty to German Chancellor Angela Merkel's biggest domestic project: shifting the country from nuclear to renewable energy sources. Merkel launched the drive to transition the country away from nuclear after Japan's 2011 Fukushima disaster. Since then, the Energiewende -- roughly, energy turnaround -- has created increasing headaches. Now, the tensions with Russia could complicate the plans further. Germany, other European countries and the U.S. have slapped some sanctions on Moscow and threatened to impose more. The problem, however, is that Germany and several European economies depend heavily on Russian energy. Germany gets about a third of its natural gas and crude oil from Russia. Merkel is still pushing ahead with the plan to shift away from nuclear energy. But if the situation with Russia escalates and Germany decides to try and reduce its reliance on Russian gas, there could be problems staying on track. This situation is perfect for Germany to accept and deploy LENR NiH reactors to replace both Russian Gas and nuclear power reactors.. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There seems to be a confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity to gain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initial development of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia and the West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcoming few years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weaken the Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal opportunity for the first release of the NiH reactor in Europe as a replacement for Russian natural gas, the primary economic weapon to undermine power projection of both the Russian and Iranian governments. LENR will take the energy weapon out of the hands of those who most want to use it. We can expect a fast tracking of the deployment of the NiH reactor in Eastern Europe where Russia has economic leverage through supply of natural gas to these former soviet states. What will Russia and Iran do to counter this attack on their projection of power, their national ambitions, their standard of living, and their international prestige?
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Axil, No I have not read those articles. A brief look told me that I have had some of the information in other forums. I will look through the entire set of documents later this week. I appreciate the articles, they certainly have value. In addition the articles will improve my knowledge - so Thank You. I appreciate your dedication to the issue. My point is that we need more than one philosophy in order to sort out how LENR will be explained. You are actually using old time knowledge to support your theory and I think that is required. Tesla had his moments but he also managed to leave a lot of holes in the documentation I think. Do not blame the government. Tesla could have secured that information found its way to 'the people'. Papp, Moray et al. they are either very smart but useless in leaving behind a theory documented so later generations could benefit or they were scam artists. I do not know and I am not accusing either one. However, there are mystical stories involved and that would not need to be. It has been relatively easy to communicate since Gutenberg. There is a say what is poorly communicated is based on a weak thought. I think many of the people referred to failed in communication and there is no excuse for that. Was it because of a illogical idea ? As we talk about the deployment one need to engage other disciplines also. I am not looking for a job as I am too old to engage in a venture of this magnitude. However, people with entrepreneurial skills and understanding of marketing and finance are key to get deployment. If you think that will be automatic as the physical scientists find the answer you have to stop and think again. Mr. Tesla is a good example. I know that many people say that he was misunderstood and that J.P. Morgan is accused of stopping his ideas as he saw no way to profit from his endless free electricity. If it was so, then Tesla's mistake was to not seek support from people with the financial knowledge. You can blame JPM but he looked after his interest - good or bad - Tesla failed because he concentrated on the thing he knew. He did not fail because JPM did not do what Tesla thought right. There is a need to take responsibility for one's own mistakes. Keep up looking for the answer but listen to others and engage specialists when need be and not too late is my advice. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Have you read this? Fusion by Pseudo-Particles Part 1 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part1.pdf Part 2 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part2.pdf Part 3 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part3.pdf This is the story of how many times that LENR has been discovered and lost since the time of Tesla. I will try my best to make sure that this loss does not happen again. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: AXIL, Nobody would be unhappy if we have a LENR product this. year. However deployment is several years out. Ido hope you are right. We do agree that the poligical issues are bigger and I say their is a need for other economical, organizational issues you do not want to see. I do not underestimate the power of the establishment. They are sidestepped bythe long and not agreed to existence of LENR for 25 years are here playing in the hands of normal people. I do not compare cellphones to LENR. Cell phones is just a modern technology being implemented. So from implementation point ofviw they have similarities. Draw from old experiences. Yes Axil greed is here you did not know but it has been here for some time now:) Yeah there is people trying to do harm. Sorry in the long run they do not count. Good luck solving the theory. I will go to sweden (if alife) to see you accept the Nobel price:) On Mar 26, 2014 5:27 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US.
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Lennart and others interested in the commercial side of CF should watch this (if you haven't already). Steve Katinski and David Nagel are setting up an industry association for advancing science and business in LANR Cold Fusion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMNSl-nrFXQlist=UUH78efhknLR-cuL9w2hVcUQ Harry On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: Axil, No I have not read those articles. A brief look told me that I have had some of the information in other forums. I will look through the entire set of documents later this week. I appreciate the articles, they certainly have value. In addition the articles will improve my knowledge - so Thank You. I appreciate your dedication to the issue. My point is that we need more than one philosophy in order to sort out how LENR will be explained. You are actually using old time knowledge to support your theory and I think that is required. Tesla had his moments but he also managed to leave a lot of holes in the documentation I think. Do not blame the government. Tesla could have secured that information found its way to 'the people'. Papp, Moray et al. they are either very smart but useless in leaving behind a theory documented so later generations could benefit or they were scam artists. I do not know and I am not accusing either one. However, there are mystical stories involved and that would not need to be. It has been relatively easy to communicate since Gutenberg. There is a say what is poorly communicated is based on a weak thought. I think many of the people referred to failed in communication and there is no excuse for that. Was it because of a illogical idea ? As we talk about the deployment one need to engage other disciplines also. I am not looking for a job as I am too old to engage in a venture of this magnitude. However, people with entrepreneurial skills and understanding of marketing and finance are key to get deployment. If you think that will be automatic as the physical scientists find the answer you have to stop and think again. Mr. Tesla is a good example. I know that many people say that he was misunderstood and that J.P. Morgan is accused of stopping his ideas as he saw no way to profit from his endless free electricity. If it was so, then Tesla's mistake was to not seek support from people with the financial knowledge. You can blame JPM but he looked after his interest - good or bad - Tesla failed because he concentrated on the thing he knew. He did not fail because JPM did not do what Tesla thought right. There is a need to take responsibility for one's own mistakes. Keep up looking for the answer but listen to others and engage specialists when need be and not too late is my advice. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Thank You Harry, I think that is a good idea. It does not eliminate the need to have an organization around an idea and a team with a purpose. However, It makes an environment, which will help. It is a step in the direction I propose. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:55 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Lennart and others interested in the commercial side of CF should watch this (if you haven't already). Steve Katinski and David Nagel are setting up an industry association for advancing science and business in LANR Cold Fusion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMNSl-nrFXQlist=UUH78efhknLR-cuL9w2hVcUQ Harry On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: Axil, No I have not read those articles. A brief look told me that I have had some of the information in other forums. I will look through the entire set of documents later this week. I appreciate the articles, they certainly have value. In addition the articles will improve my knowledge - so Thank You. I appreciate your dedication to the issue. My point is that we need more than one philosophy in order to sort out how LENR will be explained. You are actually using old time knowledge to support your theory and I think that is required. Tesla had his moments but he also managed to leave a lot of holes in the documentation I think. Do not blame the government. Tesla could have secured that information found its way to 'the people'. Papp, Moray et al. they are either very smart but useless in leaving behind a theory documented so later generations could benefit or they were scam artists. I do not know and I am not accusing either one. However, there are mystical stories involved and that would not need to be. It has been relatively easy to communicate since Gutenberg. There is a say what is poorly communicated is based on a weak thought. I think many of the people referred to failed in communication and there is no excuse for that. Was it because of a illogical idea ? As we talk about the deployment one need to engage other disciplines also. I am not looking for a job as I am too old to engage in a venture of this magnitude. However, people with entrepreneurial skills and understanding of marketing and finance are key to get deployment. If you think that will be automatic as the physical scientists find the answer you have to stop and think again. Mr. Tesla is a good example. I know that many people say that he was misunderstood and that J.P. Morgan is accused of stopping his ideas as he saw no way to profit from his endless free electricity. If it was so, then Tesla's mistake was to not seek support from people with the financial knowledge. You can blame JPM but he looked after his interest - good or bad - Tesla failed because he concentrated on the thing he knew. He did not fail because JPM did not do what Tesla thought right. There is a need to take responsibility for one's own mistakes. Keep up looking for the answer but listen to others and engage specialists when need be and not too late is my advice. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
To my mind the greatest impediment to LENR deployment would be the ingrained skepticism of the physics establishment and how that bleeds out into the realm of Wikipedia and mainstream science reporting. Also we have the unwillingness of thekilowatt producers to show us what cards they are holding because they are angling for the billion dollar payout. Anyone acquainted with Dr Mizuno should get on their knees and beg the man to assemble his kilowatt reactor and fire the darn thing up. My other thought was how cool it would be if a major stakeholder were to publicly demand a investigation into LENR developments. I considered the produce growers in California who are facing a horrific drought and will be locked in a life and death struggle for water with the coastal cities. My guess is these people would not be adverse to a technology solution that would lead to affordable desalinization. People with nothing to lose and everything to gain. With that in mind I have started emailing the science and technology person employed by the Western Growers Association but have yet to elicit a response. This could be a pressure point that would turn the tide. Perhaps some of the professor types on Vortex would be interested in helping me to fill her email box with tasty nuggets... Steve High
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-spotlights-germanys-nuclear-power-switch-173155269.html *Ukraine spotlights Germany's nuclear power switch* BERLIN (AP) -- The crisis in Ukraine has added an extra dose of uncertainty to German Chancellor Angela Merkel's biggest domestic project: shifting the country from nuclear to renewable energy sources. Merkel launched the drive to transition the country away from nuclear after Japan's 2011 Fukushima disaster. Since then, the Energiewende -- roughly, energy turnaround -- has created increasing headaches. Now, the tensions with Russia could complicate the plans further. Germany, other European countries and the U.S. have slapped some sanctions on Moscow and threatened to impose more. The problem, however, is that Germany and several European economies depend heavily on Russian energy. Germany gets about a third of its natural gas and crude oil from Russia. Merkel is still pushing ahead with the plan to shift away from nuclear energy. But if the situation with Russia escalates and Germany decides to try and reduce its reliance on Russian gas, there could be problems staying on track. This situation is perfect for Germany to accept and deploy LENR NiH reactors to replace both Russian Gas and nuclear power reactors.. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There seems to be a confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity to gain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initial development of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia and the West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcoming few years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weaken the Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal opportunity for the first release of the NiH reactor in Europe as a replacement for Russian natural gas, the primary economic weapon to undermine power projection of both the Russian and Iranian governments. LENR will take the energy weapon out of the hands of those who most want to use it. We can expect a fast tracking of the deployment of the NiH reactor in Eastern Europe where Russia has economic leverage through supply of natural gas to these former soviet states. What will Russia and Iran do to counter this attack on their projection of power, their national ambitions, their standard of living, and their international prestige?
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Axil, I agree it will be harder to sell petroleum products IF we have a commercial LENR product. However, I am still waiting for that to be true. Is it near? In my opinion there are too much concern about* who* has the right theory instead of *what* is the right theory. I am saying that as an unqualified contributor to the theories. Isn't this (deploy LENR) to divide the skin before having killed the bear. To reach the deployment date of LENR I do think this group is important. However, I think it is a pity we lost Ed Storms viewpoint. I think we should encourage everybody to participate. BLP and their different approach as well. The reason they (Ed and BLP and others) do not participate might be that they have to 'thin skin' or they feel no acceptance of their ideas and therefore avoid the confrontation (It will anyhow not be taken seriously.). I think that as long as their is no hard evidence that one approach is producing the expected result we should welcome all different opinions. Even input from people like me with no deep understanding of Chemistry or Nuclear Physics should be encouraged. There is a competence in incompetence also. The competence to ask questions that open the minds of more sophisticated scientists. My suggestion would be to at least persuade Ed Storms to return. Do we know how advanced the Russians are when it comes to LENR development? Western world might have to buy LENR from Russia? The other side is that I think Russia is just regrouping to their traditional isolationism. I think LENR will have very little impact on Russian politics. Remember their has been an attempt every hundred years or so to take over Russia. Sweden ~1709, France ~1812-13, Germany ~1943. Because of their is a strong nationalistic opinion that did not succeed. That is how Putin can take over Crimea without violence but against western preferences. If Putin is smart he stops here. He would certainly have a totally different experience trying to take control in the Baltic states. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:32 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I hope they do not resort to covert activity to prevent the deployment. This should not be initiated unless LENR devices begin to show up in large numbers. I suspect that the window will be relatively small and may not have any serious impact. After all, how much more effective can those guys be than the international physics establishment? The oil companies and other current energy suppliers may become more important adversaries in the long run. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:18 pm Subject: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment There seems to be a confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity to gain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initial development of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia and the West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcoming few years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weaken the Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal opportunity for the first release of the NiH reactor in Europe as a replacement for Russian natural gas, the primary economic weapon to undermine power projection of both the Russian and Iranian governments. LENR will take the energy weapon out of the hands of those who most want to use it. We can expect a fast tracking of the deployment of the NiH reactor in Eastern Europe where Russia has economic leverage through supply of natural gas to these former soviet states. What will Russia and Iran do to counter this attack on their projection of power, their national ambitions, their standard of living, and their international prestige?
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/defkalion-announces-timetable-for-2014/ Defkalion Announces Timetable for 2014 Accordingly we expect the commercialization of our technologies (VERSION 6 OF THE REACTOR) in the 3rd quarter of 2014. For further inquiries please contact us through our offices You can expect some delays, and some interesting demos. If DGT releases, Rossi will need to release to stay in the game unless his product is strictly military and classified. It might be. DGT must press the marketplace to show their cards or be left behind. On the other hand, DGT will stay small for as long as possible. Who wants Putin and the Ayatollah breathing down your back or even worse. My belief is that DGT will begin deployment in Greece, but it is up to their EOM partners. There may be many roads to LENR with each defined by a unique engineering approach. It will take some time for a true consensus to develop about the underlying science involved, Personally, I have my story and I am sticking to it. *Understanding of Chemistry or Nuclear Physics is not that important. Quantum mechanics and nano-technology and like fields is central to understanding LENR processes. This is the science of the 21st century. Scientists rooted in the 20th century need to up their game.* On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: Axil, I agree it will be harder to sell petroleum products IF we have a commercial LENR product. However, I am still waiting for that to be true. Is it near? In my opinion there are too much concern about* who* has the right theory instead of *what* is the right theory. I am saying that as an unqualified contributor to the theories. Isn't this (deploy LENR) to divide the skin before having killed the bear. To reach the deployment date of LENR I do think this group is important. However, I think it is a pity we lost Ed Storms viewpoint. I think we should encourage everybody to participate. BLP and their different approach as well. The reason they (Ed and BLP and others) do not participate might be that they have to 'thin skin' or they feel no acceptance of their ideas and therefore avoid the confrontation (It will anyhow not be taken seriously.). I think that as long as their is no hard evidence that one approach is producing the expected result we should welcome all different opinions. Even input from people like me with no deep understanding of Chemistry or Nuclear Physics should be encouraged. There is a competence in incompetence also. The competence to ask questions that open the minds of more sophisticated scientists. My suggestion would be to at least persuade Ed Storms to return. Do we know how advanced the Russians are when it comes to LENR development? Western world might have to buy LENR from Russia? The other side is that I think Russia is just regrouping to their traditional isolationism. I think LENR will have very little impact on Russian politics. Remember their has been an attempt every hundred years or so to take over Russia. Sweden ~1709, France ~1812-13, Germany ~1943. Because of their is a strong nationalistic opinion that did not succeed. That is how Putin can take over Crimea without violence but against western preferences. If Putin is smart he stops here. He would certainly have a totally different experience trying to take control in the Baltic states. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:32 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.comwrote: I hope they do not resort to covert activity to prevent the deployment. This should not be initiated unless LENR devices begin to show up in large numbers. I suspect that the window will be relatively small and may not have any serious impact. After all, how much more effective can those guys be than the international physics establishment? The oil companies and other current energy suppliers may become more important adversaries in the long run. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:18 pm Subject: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment There seems to be a confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity to gain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initial development of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia and the West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcoming few years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weaken the Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
for data I have, I am quite optimistic with Iran. It is a coherent nation with educated workforce, long tradition of state (not tribal like some countries)... The current situation is a locked political system that the population respect only with hypocritical appearance. Countryside and cities also are very different... Current system will collapse by surprise like Berlin wall... Indonesia girls who are used with traditional (not extreme) muslim customs, feel more free in Iranian universities than in their conservative redneck village. Of courses there is still horrors, but see how films describing the problems, or the turnaround, get out from the society... they are ready for freedom. note also that they have problem with gasoline, and have a very good physicist community (guess for why... they were trained in the 90s). they will use LENR to get autonomous from the US oil companies. what we hear about US and Israel as the devil is TV comedy, like war on terror on US... Real enemy is the Saudi in a geostrategic war to get intellectual dominance over the muslim world, over lands and minds... don't laugh, but they represent the liberal Siha compared to Wahabi radical, or conservative Suni. Very hard to understand if you have no information from there from normal people (I have data from Indonesian feminist networks), and if you don't have the historical and geostrategic real data. (I relay what local says) LENR may trigger a soft revolution in iran (maybe something like the end of prohibition, of maccarthyism), if not a classic revolution if government don't endorse LENR. 2014-03-26 4:18 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com: There seems to be a confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity to gain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initial development of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia and the West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcoming few years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weaken the Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal opportunity for the first release of the NiH reactor in Europe as a replacement for Russian natural gas, the primary economic weapon to undermine power projection of both the Russian and Iranian governments. LENR will take the energy weapon out of the hands of those who most want to use it. We can expect a fast tracking of the deployment of the NiH reactor in Eastern Europe where Russia has economic leverage through supply of natural gas to these former soviet states. What will Russia and Iran do to counter this attack on their projection of power, their national ambitions, their standard of living, and their international prestige?
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Axil, I am sure you are right. QM is important. Nano technology is important. However, it does not make old knowledge obsolete.In addition there is need for all sorts of players in order to get LENR to the market. I do not dis your opinions - I am sure they have great merits but they require to be tied to 'old' knowledge and experience and they require to be taken to the market for funding and for consumption, no QM in the world will handle that part of the road. I am glad I did not take out my gas tank first time I heard a LENR product was market ready. My shoes would have been worn out.:) I think you should stick to your story. However, I am certain that when LENR arrives in all our homes the political outfall will be different than you predict. Many other factors will interact and LENR's deployment is at least 10 years in the future, as I see it. Instead of worrying about what others do we should concentrate to be first in deployment. Together with Europe we have the best infrastructure to deploy LENR. However, less developed countries will close behind, see cellphones. I had my first cellphone in 1972 and I will suggest that deployment in the western world took 25 years and 30 years in the rest of the world. Maybe LENR will be faster but the margin will be similar and that is the advantage we can benefit from. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/defkalion-announces-timetable-for-2014/ Defkalion Announces Timetable for 2014 Accordingly we expect the commercialization of our technologies (VERSION 6 OF THE REACTOR) in the 3rd quarter of 2014. For further inquiries please contact us through our offices You can expect some delays, and some interesting demos. If DGT releases, Rossi will need to release to stay in the game unless his product is strictly military and classified. It might be. DGT must press the marketplace to show their cards or be left behind. On the other hand, DGT will stay small for as long as possible. Who wants Putin and the Ayatollah breathing down your back or even worse. My belief is that DGT will begin deployment in Greece, but it is up to their EOM partners. There may be many roads to LENR with each defined by a unique engineering approach. It will take some time for a true consensus to develop about the underlying science involved, Personally, I have my story and I am sticking to it. *Understanding of Chemistry or Nuclear Physics is not that important. Quantum mechanics and nano-technology and like fields is central to understanding LENR processes. This is the science of the 21st century. Scientists rooted in the 20th century need to up their game.* On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: Axil, I agree it will be harder to sell petroleum products IF we have a commercial LENR product. However, I am still waiting for that to be true. Is it near? In my opinion there are too much concern about* who* has the right theory instead of *what* is the right theory. I am saying that as an unqualified contributor to the theories. Isn't this (deploy LENR) to divide the skin before having killed the bear. To reach the deployment date of LENR I do think this group is important. However, I think it is a pity we lost Ed Storms viewpoint. I think we should encourage everybody to participate. BLP and their different approach as well. The reason they (Ed and BLP and others) do not participate might be that they have to 'thin skin' or they feel no acceptance of their ideas and therefore avoid the confrontation (It will anyhow not be taken seriously.). I think that as long as their is no hard evidence that one approach is producing the expected result we should welcome all different opinions. Even input from people like me with no deep understanding of Chemistry or Nuclear Physics should be encouraged. There is a competence in incompetence also. The competence to ask questions that open the minds of more sophisticated scientists. My suggestion would be to at least persuade Ed Storms to return. Do we know how advanced the Russians are when it comes to LENR development? Western world might have to buy LENR from Russia? The other side is that I think Russia is just regrouping to their traditional isolationism. I think LENR will have very little impact on Russian politics. Remember their has been an attempt every hundred years or so to take over Russia. Sweden ~1709, France ~1812-13, Germany ~1943. Because of their is a strong nationalistic opinion that did not succeed. That is how Putin can take over Crimea without violence but
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
*I am sure they have great merits but they require to be tied to 'old' knowledge and experience * To my way of thinking, *neutrons* play no part in LENR in any of its manifestations. Nuclear physics is predicated on the neutron as a central causative factor. Even the nuclear reactions researched in nuclear physics do not apply to LENR multiple nuclei cluster fusion reactions. Nuclear physics will be out of work after LENR is introduced and they all need to be retrained. This will be difficult because as the twig is bent, so the tree shall grow. If chemistry is judged to cover super atoms, and Nano-particle production, together with nanoplasmonics, metallurgy, and hydrogen chemistry, then chemistry is important in that regard. *Together with Europe we have the best infrastructure to deploy LENR.* Europe is energy poor and their need for energy and LENR is great. The US is rich in energy and will resist LENR, just as Russia will ,and Iran, and OPEC. The US will use LENR for weapons and keep it classified. This might change if DGT releases their product due to public pressure in the US to compete in the commercial energy marketplace. I predict that DGT will be first to market because of military medaling in the US LENR situation.
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Axil, I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The fully developed LENR reactor in your garage might be good for you but to be called a success it requires all the other ingredients also. I do not want you to change your opinion just be open to others. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. US was at least five years behind deploying that technology. I do not speculate why. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal engineering. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *I am sure they have great merits but they require to be tied to 'old' knowledge and experience * To my way of thinking, *neutrons* play no part in LENR in any of its manifestations. Nuclear physics is predicated on the neutron as a central causative factor. Even the nuclear reactions researched in nuclear physics do not apply to LENR multiple nuclei cluster fusion reactions. Nuclear physics will be out of work after LENR is introduced and they all need to be retrained. This will be difficult because as the twig is bent, so the tree shall grow. If chemistry is judged to cover super atoms, and Nano-particle production, together with nanoplasmonics, metallurgy, and hydrogen chemistry, then chemistry is important in that regard. *Together with Europe we have the best infrastructure to deploy LENR.* Europe is energy poor and their need for energy and LENR is great. The US is rich in energy and will resist LENR, just as Russia will ,and Iran, and OPEC. The US will use LENR for weapons and keep it classified. This might change if DGT releases their product due to public pressure in the US to compete in the commercial energy marketplace. I predict that DGT will be first to market because of military medaling in the US LENR situation.
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. Cellphones are but a toy compared to the impact of LENR to the world order. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. Competition, greed, and fear are what push the affairs of men in these modern times. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal You did not mention national security, classification, regulation, the Kock brothers. and the nuclear regulatory agency (NRC ) as factors in this upcoming turn of events..
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Axil and Lennart-- I agree with a lot of what both of you say. I think the wide scope of knowledge and need around the World will trump the security, classification and regulation Axil is concerned about. It may happen at first in some countries but not all. Eventually the greed and competition in even the most regulated areas will over rule. I do not think the NRC will regulate this LENR technology. It would take a ;significant law change to expand the scope of NRC authority in my humble judgment. Second NRC would have little or no capability in this area. Three the safety issues do not appear to warrant such oversight. Lastly the government would have to admit that LENR is a real phenomena. The Patent Office would never live down the law suits regarding not issuing patents in the past for legitimate LENR inventions in this country. It would mean a Constitutional Convention to modify the idea of invention and commerce and to put some honest government in place in stead of the current military, energy industrial, government complex aimed at making sure their oxen are not gored in the commercialization of LENR. Bob - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. Cellphones are but a toy compared to the impact of LENR to the world order. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. Competition, greed, and fear are what push the affairs of men in these modern times. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal You did not mention national security, classification, regulation, the Kock brothers. and the nuclear regulatory agency (NRC ) as factors in this upcoming turn of events..
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/26/europe-asks-obama-increased-exports-shale-gas European leaders ask Obama to allow increased exports of US shale gas With Russia's gas monopoly, Gazprom, supplying a quarter of Europe's gas needs, and almost all of the gas in parts of eastern Europe, the energy issue has soared to the top of Europe's strategic agenda as a result of the Ukrainian crisis and the fear that the Kremlin will be able to blackmail Europe if a threatened trade war erupts. European leaders on Wednesday asked Barack Obama to share the US's shale gas bonanza with Europe by facilitating gas exports to help counter the stranglehold Russia has on the continent's energy needs. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. Cellphones are but a toy compared to the impact of LENR to the world order. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. Competition, greed, and fear are what push the affairs of men in these modern times. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal You did not mention national security, classification, regulation, the Kock brothers. and the nuclear regulatory agency (NRC ) as factors in this upcoming turn of events..
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
AXIL, Nobody would be unhappy if we have a LENR product this. year. However deployment is several years out. Ido hope you are right. We do agree that the poligical issues are bigger and I say their is a need for other economical, organizational issues you do not want to see. I do not underestimate the power of the establishment. They are sidestepped bythe long and not agreed to existence of LENR for 25 years are here playing in the hands of normal people. I do not compare cellphones to LENR. Cell phones is just a modern technology being implemented. So from implementation point ofviw they have similarities. Draw from old experiences. Yes Axil greed is here you did not know but it has been here for some time now:) Yeah there is people trying to do harm. Sorry in the long run they do not count. Good luck solving the theory. I will go to sweden (if alife) to see you accept the Nobel price:) On Mar 26, 2014 5:27 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. Cellphones are but a toy compared to the impact of LENR to the world order. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. Competition, greed, and fear are what push the affairs of men in these modern times. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal You did not mention national security, classification, regulation, the Kock brothers. and the nuclear regulatory agency (NRC ) as factors in this upcoming turn of events..
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
Have you read this? Fusion by Pseudo-Particles Part 1 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part1.pdf Part 2 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part2.pdf Part 3 http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part3.pdf This is the story of how many times that LENR has been discovered and lost since the time of Tesla. I will try my best to make sure that this loss does not happen again. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.comwrote: AXIL, Nobody would be unhappy if we have a LENR product this. year. However deployment is several years out. Ido hope you are right. We do agree that the poligical issues are bigger and I say their is a need for other economical, organizational issues you do not want to see. I do not underestimate the power of the establishment. They are sidestepped bythe long and not agreed to existence of LENR for 25 years are here playing in the hands of normal people. I do not compare cellphones to LENR. Cell phones is just a modern technology being implemented. So from implementation point ofviw they have similarities. Draw from old experiences. Yes Axil greed is here you did not know but it has been here for some time now:) Yeah there is people trying to do harm. Sorry in the long run they do not count. Good luck solving the theory. I will go to sweden (if alife) to see you accept the Nobel price:) On Mar 26, 2014 5:27 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure your statements has merit. I am not able to determine how accurate you are. The chances are better than even that this will be determined by the end of this year. I do know that it requires that one utilise old experience and new found techniques and all other resources to reach the final stage. The technical challenges are easy compared to the political ones. There are no old experiences that can guide the development of LENR. It is unprecedented and world changing. If this product holds what it promises. It is to late for anyone to keep it away from a commercialization. You underestimate the power of the military industrial complex and the desire for security and military supremacy in the US. For all of us depending on the US government it would be beneficial if the US participated and did not let the opportunity to be a dominant factor. Judging from the cellphone development it might happen. Cellphones are but a toy compared to the impact of LENR to the world order. First to market will not mean much from economical or impact point of view. Competition, greed, and fear are what push the affairs of men in these modern times. A good concept with enough backing of capital, management and marketing will be key-factors once the technical issues are understood - parallel with optimal You did not mention national security, classification, regulation, the Kock brothers. and the nuclear regulatory agency (NRC ) as factors in this upcoming turn of events..
Re: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment
I hope they do not resort to covert activity to prevent the deployment. This should not be initiated unless LENR devices begin to show up in large numbers. I suspect that the window will be relatively small and may not have any serious impact. After all, how much more effective can those guys be than the international physics establishment? The oil companies and other current energy suppliers may become more important adversaries in the long run. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:18 pm Subject: [Vo]:The prospects for LENR deployment There seems to bea confluence of events that provide LENR with an unprecedented opportunity togain wide acceptance and deployment. Just as war simulated the initialdevelopment of nuclear energy, a new commercial and cold war between Russia andthe West will stimulate the rapid deployment of the NiH reactor. In the upcomingfew years, LENR will be used by western governments as an economic weapon to weakenthe Russian economy and reduce the foreign and domestic prerogatives of Putin. This is an ideal opportunityfor the first release of the NiH reactor in Europe as a replacement for Russiannatural gas, the primary economic weapon to undermine power projection of both theRussian and Iranian governments. LENR will take the energy weapon out of the hands of those who most want to use it. We can expect afast tracking of the deployment of the NiH reactor in Eastern Europe whereRussia has economic leverage through supply of natural gas to these formersoviet states. What will Russiaand Iran do to counter this attack on their projection of power, their nationalambitions, their standard of living, and their international prestige?
