Re: {W&P} East Timor's "independence": illusion and reality
- Original Message - From: "Claes Persson" Hi all! Just some thoughts: It seems as the greed is going to win - again. Those vultures have been cirkling this tiny half-island for years. Sometimes makeing deals with the inhabitants, sometimes with each others and neglecting the inhabitants. Now they are independent? Can any one country be independent in the globalization age? Will this little nation get a fair deal? Ok. The islanders may get a little more to put on the table if they are lucky. But not beacuse the kind corporations let them, only if the corporations can not get nearly all for them selves. Then who is going to stop the vulters from getting nealy all? It must be a very good businessman to do that. And he better have an army, a navy and an airforce behind him to back him up. None of the corporations are interrested in the people. The people is just a complication. Only the money counts and they follow the saying here in the south of Sweden: Business is business and if you can fool some one (or a nation) then that's business too. Claes Persson SWEDEN §( :8-) Think its about time the East Timorese received the returns for the oil and gas rights Previously they were in the hands of the Indonesians No one spoke, negotiated or anything with the East Timorese, because they were a colony of the Portugese They also prior to the Indonesians invasion had pleaded with not only the US govt but also the Australian govt for help neither chose to help them Even so far as the UN has not recognised the Indonesians as sovereign nation for East Timor, but did nothing to help them The point is that now they are independent they are going to need all the funds they can get... and because oil and gas rights are now signed with the East Timorese, whether through explitative means or not, the funds are going to the country Reality takes a long time to be born from illusion and negative views will not help their people maree ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} VB: [Sightings] Humanity Vs. Pt 3 Warning: Controversial
- Original Message -
From: "al winslow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: {W&P} VB: [Sightings] Humanity Vs. Pt 3 Warning: Controversial
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > This is really controversial. Is it true? If so maybe it's not so
> > curious that some don't like IMF!
>
> > > In 1971-72, the CIA was, at least in part, responsible for the
> > > overthrow of the `democratically-elected' Whitlam government in
> > > Australia, supposedly the most educated country in the world.
> > > This is documented in the book and the movie, The Falcon and
> > > The Snowman. The participation of the U.S. governement and its
> > > military in manipulating the governments and elections of Third
> > > World countries is legendary.
>
>[Al] Wow! "Documented" in a
> movie! Gee whiz! That's proof beyond a shadow of a doubt!
>
>
> > JOE STIGLITZ: TODAY'S WINNER OF THE NOBEL PRIZE IN
> > > ECONOMICSby Greg Palast
> > > The Globalizer Who Came In From the Cold; Observer,
> > > London. October 10, 2001
> > >
> > > The World Bank's former Chief Economist's accusations are
> > > eye-popping - including how the IMF and US Treasury fixed the
> > > Russian elections.
> > >
> > > "It has condemned people to death," the former apparatchik told
>
> [Al]Documented in numerous Disney cartoons?!
>
wow guys!! i've really missed this but here we go!!!
Gough baby was still PM of Aus until November '74 ... there have been
suggestions that the CIA and the US govt didn't like the fact that Gough
baby used parliamentary privilege to let Australians know where the Us bases
were in AUS and what they were for... but lets face it ... don't think we
quite classify as a developing country .. yet anyway at least
as for the IMF... my suggestion would be that countries that get funds from
the IMF are in chaos anyway, they are decimated financially and
economically, and to get funds they must agree to conditions placed on them
by the IMF, one of those conditions is that of market rule... the joy of
globalised capitalism... and hence these countries are unable to sustain the
development as at their previous rate. Moreover, their governments and
financial institutions have to be transparent and accountable...accountable
to the IMF
no conspiracy, just basic econmics and democracy and rule of law... mostly
not prevalent in these countries...
maree
___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
FREE - $4500 network color printer from Xerox Thousands of small businesses, schools and non-profits have benefited from this program. You can too. Apply now. http://click.topica.com/caaafNvb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Xerox What can be done to spread the knowlledge? To make people to think along those lines? Who are the enemys? Will it be worth the trouble to try? I don't know. What do you think? Claes §( :8-) the problem isn't about spreading knowledge, but having people actually listen we live in a world where people use opposing cultures /religions /tribalism as a means to reinforce their own position... we socialise our children to believe one narrow view, and if they stand up and suggest otherwise or question what is being taught they are ostracised / punished... we breed children, the future adults not to question, just to accept very general view, and i do realise there are those within our society that donot follow this line but ... we can see withSept 11 that the media and the govt followed one line immediately at the time of the attacks (my point here is not to suggest that Osama Bin Laden and his followers are notthe guilty parties) ... people accepted what was fed to them, those in other circles who dared suggest that the basis of society was the rule of law, and justice was not being done thru trial by media, there was no suggestion of impartiality these people were condemned and ...if we live in a society , global or otherwise, that denies these simple fundamental rights, then how is it that we can accept that there are otherwho choose to live differently, or have different values ... therefore we have to start with education and understanding, and tolerance of difference... and accept that there is nothing wrong with questioning the status quo always worth the trouble to try maree NO MORE PAYROLL HEADACHES FOR SMALL BUSINESS WITH PAYCYCLE! Instant calculations, pre-filled tax forms, email reminders, To Dos. Guaranteed accurate. Live support. Click here for free trial. http://click.topica.com/caaafupb1dhdKb1tdQUf/Paycycle ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 FREE GUIDE FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY PROS The Monitor Field Guide is packed with information on evaluating, buying and supporting monitors. Get Your Copy Here http://click.topica.com/caaafJtb1dhdKb1tdRUf/MonitorsDirect ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
Building your e-commerce Web site is complicated, right? Doesnt have to be. Get our FREE e-commerce Basics Guide and learn how to process SECURE ONLINE PAYMENTS. http://click.topica.com/caaafGsb1dhdKb1tdRUa/VeriSign Claes the conspiracy/senario i suggested was to hopefully get some ppl to say something . You are right ppl have been trying for centuries to have opposing views see reason but who's reason is it? those who want the position of superiority, those who believe Christianity and democracy are the only ways to venture on the point i am trying to make is that one persons percetion of reason is not necessarily anothers ... hence continuing tribal conflict ... maree Debt Worries? Get Relief Now! Free Online Consultation Settle Your Debts for Pennies on the Dollar! We Work For You Resolve Your Debt! No Bankruptcy! Attorney Representation http://click.topica.com/caaafyBb1dhdKb1tdRUf/NationalDebtNetwork ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
PROSAVVY: GUARANTEED SATISFACTION WITH YOUR CONSULTANT! With more than 1,800 pre-qualified consulting firms from every major practice area, ProSavvy reduces the time/risks with obtaining consulting services. GUARANTEED! http://click.topica.com/caaaeR7b1dhdKb1tdRUa/ProSavvy Thinking about selling your home within the next 5 months? Don't gamble with the biggest transaction of your life! Use HomeGain's free service to find & compare local Realtors®. http://click.topica.com/caaaeSdb1dhdKb1tdQUa/HomeGain refer previous message under subject yes we do seem to have similar views... but ... how about if one was to suggest that what is happening in relation to the middle east is merely a means by which the economic and imperialist super powers could undermine the position of their opposition... if we look closely we can summise that oil comes from the mid east, opium comes from the mid east, opposition in the form of religion, culture and collectivism comes from there if we envisage that prior to the end of the cold war the enemy was communism... now.. we can all suggest that for some one / tribe to be truly in a position of power, they need an opposition, they need to justify and legitimate their power and the tools they utislise to reatin that power ... hence the middle east, and their religion and culture are a tool of the west to place themselves in a superior position if we look back over history, Lennin, Stalin, HItler, just to name a few have used the same form of propaganda... the promotion of fear As long as we support leadersand countries that follow this line of tribalism, there will be no peace just a few thoughts . any comments maree Rent DVDs Online! For a Limited Time, Try Netflix FREE! Tired of video stores? Poor selection, lines, late fees? Try a better way to rent DVDs. Rent Online from Netflix. http://click.topica.com/caaafkob1dhdKb1tdRUf/Netflix ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
Save 50% 70% on Term Life Insurance, Compare and Save! Let us earn your business. Get a fee quote without the hassle. Compare rates from the Nations top Insurance companies. http://click.topica.com/caaafxFb1dhdKb1tdRUa/TermOnly Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements. Easily create professional-quality images with this affordable digital imaging software! Click here to download your free tryout now. http://click.topica.com/caaafvKb1dhdKb1tdQUa/AdobePhotoshop - Original Message - From: "Claes Persson" [Maree]Tribalism has been around for centuries, the formation of society, based on family grouping originally, then alliances that provided social and economic benefits... alliances formed for marriages and exchanges of food ... still extremely relevant in not only developing countries, but also in western societies. [Claes] -Exactly. Tribalism has been with us for a thousend years and more and so har the wars and the conflicts as a result of this tribalism, and it will go on. [Maree] Migration across the globe has not belittled the importance of tribal groups, in actual fact in many instances, people from developing countries have formed their own niches within societis based on tribal alliances. And with the growt of global capital tribalism has taken a different form, and yet has similar affects. As for the future we can see the past decade has brought many positives, but also negatives on those collective groupings [Claes] -Yes, a muliracial society is not really excisting. The tribalism prevales and grows, the bigger the minority group becomes. When it becomes big enougt to enforce it's own agenda it will do so and if it meets recistence from the other tribe, the clashes are close. That goes independent of what create this tribe. Reigion, sport (huliganism) or local areas (gangs). [Maree] I can see a degeneration in the democratic equality that is purported by western societies in favour of tribal groupings based on economic necessity... not ideal for the average population, and more desolation for the impoverished hence more negativity and the possibility of growth in anti-western sentiment, even within western society [Claes]-Economism and globalism is already like a religion for some and that creates recistance from the groups that want to take another way, but the busdriver (IMF et al) will not listen. Some of the globalisations figures on the top of the organisations are already behaving like high priests. This tribe (that favours the globalisation) is mostly represented by the rich and powerful as they have most to gain. The resistance is coming from two sources. First the part that is going to pay the price to fill the wallets of the rich and powerful high priests of the globalisation. Second from those in the enlightend intellectual society that can see the oncoming clash of the tribes. Which side is you on, Maree? [Maree] I think that the twos sides that are emerging, are in fact one, socalled enlightened intellectuals may see the oncoming clashes, however they also are the ones who pay the price. With growing privatisation, education is facilitated thru grants from the rich and powerful, therefore sa with the conglomerations and amalgums of media, there is the potential for those in power to infiltrate education to primarily give their oportunistic slant on society.. In some respects we can draw analogies with the western medias portrayal of developing societies and how their structures and institutions undermine the ideals of their culture. This form of manipulation has been around for centuries and gives those in power their justification. As for the side that i am on ... while to some degree i probably fit into the enlightened intellectual category, i also, thru necessity, because i am also a consumer, pay the price that expands the power of the few Preferrably i think i would suggest that there is a group that crosses boundaries, and sees the impending clashes... However, that is only relevant and able to provide benefit it society is willing to listen to those enlightened rather than retaining their stereotypical views that has been part and parcel with their socialisation. [Claes]This talking of high priests may need an explanation. All tribes usually has forefront figures that are more or less treated like gods. From the Sumerians, over the Zarathustrians, the Greek town states, the Roman Empire, the Napoleonic times, the nazis and to the Stalins. The global economic empires are no different. One of the high priests of the globalisation, a friend of president Bush, the chairman (or whatever) of the collapsed Enron has fallen and the fall is high. Who is now going to be the new high priest of the
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
Thinking about selling your home within the next 5 months? Don't gamble with the biggest transaction of your life! Use HomeGains free service to find & compare local Realtors®. http://click.topica.com/caaaeSdb1dhdKb1tdRUa/HomeGain - Original Message - From: "Claes Persson" I do agree with the above, but... One thing, much more basic, that's mostly forgotten is the tribalism. One group (anyone of the different groups, christians, muslims, buddists, capitalsts and so on) is convinced of their own grandness and is acting accordingly. Other groups don't agree as their way of life is considdered better by themselves. When interrests collide there is trouble as two can not sit in the same chair, so to speak. There can be only one busdriver in a bus. If one group of the passengers want to go another way they can not do that in the same bus. So fighting starts about which way to go, about the way to live. Tribes are formed around many interrests like religion, sports, local areas (gangs) and so on. It is as basic as eating among any living flock of animals as well as people (wich are animals too, weather they like it or not, and some, if not many, prove it to the rest of us by beastly behavior). My point is that under your explanation is tribalism. It has always made life a living hell for many people. It's basic in life and there is the reason for my pessimism about peace on earth. It has never excisted and never will. It's not possible to teach all people to act accordingly and not to the self interrest. The new order (if that's what it can be called), globalism, is even more accepting the self interrest to be ruling peoples behavior. Is the future bright? I doubt it. What do you think? Claes §( :8-) Tribalism has been around for centuries, the formation of society, based on family grouping originally, then alliances that provided social and economic benefits... alliances formed for marriages and exchanges of food ... still extremely relevant in not only developing countries, but also in western societies. Migration across the globe has not belittled the importance of tribal groups, in actual fact in many instances, people from developing countries have formed their own niches within societis based on tribal alliances. And with the growt of global capital tribalism has taken a different form, and yet has similar affects. As for the future we can see the past decade has brought many positives, but also negatives on those collective groupings I can see a degeneration in the democratic equality that is purported by western societies in favour of tribal groupings based on economic necessity... not ideal for the average population, and more desolation for the impoverished hence more negativity and the possibility of growth in anti-western sentiment, even within western society maree Join Dialfreecalls.com TODAY and make all your phone calls worldwide for FREE!! No Fees of any kind! Call from Any Phone! No purchases and No credit cards required. Join Now. It's Simple, Easy, and Best of All, it's FREE! http://click.topica.com/caaafizb1dhdKb1tdQUf/Dialfreecalls.com ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 The creator of this web-based guide earns six figures a year from his basement. Come read this unique guide for free right now, and discover exactly how you can make YOUR living online. (It's easier than you might think.) http://click.topica.com/caaafm6b1dhdKb1tdRUf/make-a-living-online ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Where'd everyone go???
Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements. Easily create professional-quality images with this affordable digital imaging software! Click here to download your free tryout now. http://click.topica.com/caaafvKb1dhdKb1tdRUa/AdobePhotoshop - Original Message - From: "Claes Persson" > Hey! what's up? Last month there were over 500 messages posted and now > Zero? > > Where'd everyone go? > > Has there been a complete lack of political incidents worthy of > discussion? > > Is the world at peace? Is there no political scandal worth discussing? > Now, after the hollydays I agree. Someting has made everybody silent. Why? Hey, it's a new year. What's on in politics? we are in the midst of holiday season here .. What about a torch? How come that in nearly all wars around the world one of the fighting partys is always the muslims or narkotic gangs? Or both? Or is that just my impression? Claes §( :8-) Religion is one of the greatest dividers in world history. The concept that Christianity is the legitimation of civilisation has led to many wars. Even within the western domain. The concepts of divine rule and divine right of Kings has endowed the pretensions of monarchs, even to the point where a few centuries ago wars divided people who believed that monarchs and elitists ruled because of Gods will. And now because religion and culture are so instrinsicly intertwined, the western modern world believes it is superior because of democratic practises and others believe that this individualism has led to the erosion of values. The reality is that wars stem froma power struggle and while today capitalism rules to some degree, religion and cultural values are struggling to survive in the face of it Multinational corporations and global conglomerates, while bringing modernisation to the developing world are seen as undermining the peasant / nomadic traditions, and because these people do not have the same history as western society, they are unable to adjust accordingly, and therefore use the propaganda that western imperialism is the cause of all their problems, rather than then archaic traditions. But thenagain does the western world have the right to decide that their traditional, and often medieval practices are wrong? maree ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 Ranger Rick will captivate your elementary-school child. A subscription includes membership card, decal, and more! Subscribe now and get FREE binoculars with each paid order! http://click.topica.com/caaaftTb1dhdKb1tdRUf/RangerRick ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} China laying an egg???
will it be open in time for easter? maree > Just read an interesting article... seems that China is building a new > opera house of unusual design... it will look like a huge egg :) > > I hope nobody starts making yokes about it :) > > > > Space-age opera house still on, says China > > The Chinese authorities are to go ahead with building a controversial > space-age opera house in central Beijing, despite a storm of protest > from local architects and academics. > > The French-designed building is expected to look like a huge egg covered > with glass and titanium and set in a lake. Audience members will enter > the building via an underwater tunnel. > > more at > http://www.gmn.com/news/default.asp?ms=2&id=2876&src=10407 > > > John T > Any Tolkien fans out there? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Join to discuss the new movie! > > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} "MORALITY" OF THE RULERS
> > maree wrote: > > tell me is this crap going to continue > > > > maree > > Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, aren't they? Perhaps > you'd care to refute his claims? but are they his own opinions ? or merely regurgitation? > > No matter, he's been removed since he's only trying to promote his own > agenda rather than interact with the membership. If he'd interacted, > then his postings would fit within the guidelines for this list. > well ... i think that was probably the point of mycomment thankyou > > So? Anyone have anything 'controversial' they'd like to discuss? > > I seem to recall reading in the National Enquirer (or similar rag :)) > that Bin Laden has granted them an Exclusive Interview and will be > Revealing All ! revealling all? or what he wants those to hear? Personally i think it is probably another form of hype to sell more copies ... And I don't think he would be that pathetically stupid to allow some form of media to enter his domain, although then again.. he did presumeably, from what we are led to believe thru media speculation that the video of his meeting was left for someone just conveniently to find... i again find that questionable ... but he has that chauvenistic view of his own importance and that he could have deliberately planted it , who knows what goes on in a mind like that ... > > In addition, he is supposed to be applying for US citizenship so he > can run for President! He has a few legal issues to clear up, first, of > course... but how about him for US President in 2004 ? > > > > JT > just a few legal problems . i thought that to become Pres you had to be a US born citizen Although one could suggest that he has the capacity to organise, manupulate and control ... he can develop strategic plans and carry them out full of his own self importance demonstrates some formof loyalty to his religion, culture and people ... what more could one ask for in a Pres? maree lol > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} "MORALITY" OF THE RULERS
tell me is this crap going to continue
maree
- Original Message -
From: "John Tomson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ".NZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ".ycl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 2:42 AM
Subject: {W&P} "MORALITY" OF THE RULERS
>
> Enter to Win Free Maid Service and More from Pfizer!
> Win Free Maid Service for 6 Months, a "Day of Beauty" or
> a Palm Handheld! Enter Now!
> http://click.topica.com/caaae7xb1dhdKb1tdQUa/Pfizer
>
>
> As vilification of the Taliban regime gears up, with the western
> leaders taking the moral high ground (and conveniently forgetting the
> assistance they gave to the Taliban and islamic extremism in general),
> another example of state repression continues unnoticed.
>
> That is the situation in Chechnya - where a state of war between the
> central Russian state and separatist nationalist guerrillas has existed
> for years now, with ordinary people suffering most, as ever. The
> capital, Grozny, lies in Ruins and tens of thousands of refugees live
> on Chechen borders, too frightened of Russian military brutality to go
> home. Killings, torture and arbitrary detention are commonplace.
>
> Russia is seeking to hold on to strategically important territory
> (located as Chechnya is near the oil of the Caspian Sea). There is the
> fear that a breakaway Chechnya would fall out of the Russian orbit,
> maybe to come under the influence of rivals such as Iran.
>
> The continued bloodshed goes on with little attention paid to it in
> "the West". Quite simply, there is nothing to gain from criticising
> Russian actions (hypocritical as this would perhaps be, given all
> capitalist states' readiness to use violence to further their aims)
> because it is economically and politically expedient now to maintain an
> uneasy friendliness with Russia.
>
> And it must be remembered that "the West" paid precious little
> attention to the brutality of the Taliban regime when it wasn't seen to
> pose a threat to western interests. Now things have changed, and the
> "great and good" have changed their tune. The capitalists and their
> "democratic" politicians will support any dictator (e.g. Saddam
> Hussein, Suharto) so long as their interests are served. When they are
> not, they will turn on them.
>
> "Morality" doesn't come into it.
>
> Jt
>
> http://communities.msn.com/realworldsocialism
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
> Are you at risk for Diabetes? Click here to find out.
> Hit the Target. Be on Guard Against Type 2 Diabetes. Get
> Informed!
> http://click.topica.com/caaae7Vb1dhdKb1tdQUf/MealtimeMatters
>
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: {W&P} Druggies....
> Better results from your email newsletter! Get professional > email publishing tools to create more effective Newsletters. > Target mailings, deliver in HTML, and track your success. > Get Topica Email Publisher. Now FREE for 60 days! > http://click.topica.com/caaaeQ3b1dhdKb1tdQUa/TopicaEmailPublisher > ==== > maree writes: > > << Its a shame that that same society is what has bred addiction and provides > the breeding groung in which it thrives... The poor education and family > lifestyles where children are placed last on the list below careers and > material wealth surely then this society then should also bear the > responsibility of what it has produced ... rather than hope it just disappear > >> > __ > In one way your statement makes sense ... but in another way it doesn't. > > I did my job right ... so why should *I* pay for the mistakes that others > have made? > That's really the bottom line, you know. > > LG > Western society has a tendency to breed a number of types, including those that conform and those that don't... very general statement however, unlike traditional cultures where the extended family is there as a means of support and guidance when work has to be done, western society maintains, in growing numbers, latch key children, they also maintain, in growing numbers, teenage pregnancies there is also a correlation between drug dependence, abuse and crime with the growth in teenage pregnancies, divorce rates and family breakdowns... All very general statements, but for a person to be looking for something to take them away from the life they are living, there has to be some causation... Now it is great that you have done your job right.. and your choice of word usage "job" says so much ... i have never considered the raising of my children as a "job" I suppose in all this my point would be .. that there are so many family situations, that are different, and people who are unable to conform, or rebel... that other options, such as drug abuse become the easy way . Now I don't agree with it being an easy way but as a teenager, and feeling lost and without hope, without believing you have parental support, and feeling unable and inadequate to achieve the expectations of parents, feeling that you don't fit in with what your so called piers set as the 'ideal' there are some who will take the option to escape into a high of drugs ... and then they feel they enjoy that sensation, so they try again ... and then gradually they become dependent upon that feeling and sensation for survival, that they are then dependent on those drugs just to get thru the day These are not adults with fully developed logic and rational minds ... these are kids who feel lost ... because parents, families and educators.. and the system/ society has failed them ... Now you may well have done your job right ... but in doing that are you the parent of a child who has been the bully, or the one who dictates what the ideal is to be included .. are you one who decides what entails conforming in the education system, the standard that society sets, the mode of dress, what is acceptable/what is not; which families are invited to what parties, who plays on the local kids sports teams and who is rejected because they don't conform ? think about it merry xmas maree > > Trash that old photo album & grab the one that Rocks! > FLIPALBUM creates wicked book-like digital albums! Try the > only 3D page-flipping photo album on PC FREE for 30 days! > http://click.topica.com/caaaeTAb1dhdKb1tdQUf/e-booksystems > > > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Druggies....
Win 5 Great DVDs Shrek, The Matrix plus 3 More! ViDVD is the first multimedia DVD player to support CD-R/W, MP3, digital photos, and Internet access. The next generation DVD player is here! http://click.topica.com/caaaeTbb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Vialta > > Win 5 Great DVDs - "Shrek", "The Matrix" plus 3 More! > ViDVD is the first multimedia DVD player to support CD-R/W, > MP3, digital photos, and Internet access. The next > generation DVD player is here! > http://click.topica.com/caaaeTbb1dhdKb1tdQUa/Vialta > > > > > LG: Go play in traffic. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > I don't think so, I work with people who are the victims of traffic you > go and play, and then come walk in my shoes maree >> > _ > Bet you use "whatever" and "basically" a lot too -- don't you ... > > You work with traffic victims so you're one of those that make their > living off the users ... and if there was no drug problem, you'd be out of a > job. Sorry, but in my book, your arguments just lost all credibility. You've > got to much at stake in the game to be taken seriously. > > LG no ... don't make my living off users ... 'at this point in time' I have nothing to do with anyone that has any form of illegal addiction ... the people I work with are the victimes of traffic accidents ... you know ... cars buses ... trucks . so why does that mean I have lost any credibility because you say so ... As for the psychological studies they used consenting adults who are recovering addicts and their families ... and believe that they can see the same difference in children as shown in the addict themselves... Your generalisations of addiction does not take into consideration the addiction problems that the Vietnam war, or the Gulf war has caused It also doesnot take into consideration those on the periphery of society, all it accounts for is how your perspective views addicts ... And yes I have seen the lives of those shattered by addicts... and their families that make excuses and are willing to try anything to help their relatedaddict ... I have also seen the so called government help that is offered where one form of addiction is traded for another, and how because of their problem they are totally ostracised from society, criminalised by judgemental people who only want to view them as the scourge, lazy and cowardly blot on society Its a shame that that same society is what has bred addiction and provides the breeding groung in which it thrives... The poor education and family lifestyles where children are placed last on the list below careers and material wealth surely then this society then should also bear the responsibility of what it has produced ... rather than hope it just disappear maree > > > Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements. > Easily create professional-quality images > with this affordable digital imaging software! > Click here to download your free tryout now. > http://click.topica.com/caaaeTab1dhdKb1tdQUf/AdobePhotoshop > > > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > Find the Best Credit Card The Best Place on the Net to Find the Best Credit Card Apply Now! Bad Credit, No Credit, Business & Students Cards Get More Money Now !! Free Gift ! http://click.topica.com/caaaeTKb1dhdKb1tdRUf/100bestoffers.com ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
Upgrade to the latest Palm(tm) 4.1 OS! Increased productivity, improved data security and superior Internet access. You'll get features like Autofill and Autolock. . . http://click.topica.com/caaaeShb1dhdKb1tdRUb/Palm For a LIMITED TIME, you will receive a no obligation credit restoration analysis by phone from a reputable credit professional. DISCOVER options for removing negative marks from your credit report and improving your credit rating. To take advantage of this FREE offer, click here now: http://click.topica.com/caaaeR9b1dhdKb1tdQUb/eCreditRepair In a message dated 12/13/01 2:57:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: isn't part of the cure, finding out the problem?maree Not if it turns out the problem was he wanted to FEEL good. Then what? janice Then I agree with you . the person deserves what he/she gets .... maree Better results from your email newsletter! Get professional email publishing tools to create more effective Newsletters. Target mailings, deliver in HTML, and track your success. Get Topica Email Publisher. Now FREE for 60 days! http://click.topica.com/caaaeQ1b1dhdKb1tdQUg/TopicaEmailPublisher ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 Improve Your Sites Conversion with Keywords by RealNames! Keyword users convert at TWO times industry averages. Register a Keyword now and get FREE REPORTING: http://click.topica.com/caaaeVEb1dhdKb1tdRUg/RealNames ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Bush & Treaties.... welfare and Voting
For a LIMITED TIME, you will receive a no obligation credit restoration analysis by phone from a reputable credit professional. DISCOVER options for removing negative marks from your credit report and improving your credit rating. To take advantage of this FREE offer, click here now: http://click.topica.com/caaaeR9b1dhdKb1tdRUb/eCreditRepair FLUSH FAT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM with Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar! http://click.topica.com/caaaeEAb1dhdKb1tdQUb/CiderVinegar Roger wrote: If keeping someone from doing something really stupid that puts themselves and those around them at risk of death (like people in wheel chairs in 110 story buildings) makes me a discriminatory person, so be it. My discrimination will (and has in the past) saved lives. maree wrote: Surely then, if people in wheel chairs are to have access to buildings of such height then there should also be a responsibility on the owners / developers / architects to ensure that the same risks are countered, building codes should reflect and adequately cover these problems. While you may argue that this is not a viable option, nor is the option to limit the height that there is wheel chair access. It is another catch 22, you discriminate to save lives, by denying equal access. Roger replies: There is no catch 22! Your priorities are messed up! You equate "equal access" with saving lives My priorities are not messed up my catch 22 was in relation to the ideas proffered by governments on equality, and further the concepts of equal access this was also linked with buildings and businesses that offered equal opportunities and yet not allowances for the disadvantages that wheel chairs posed. If governments allow buildings to be built that offer access to wheelchairs, then they should enforce building codes that make allowances . they don't maree wrote: And as for your judgement of myself and my age and my opinions try again Roger replies: I can only base my conclusions on your words, typical of youth. Your actual age matters not, only your actions and to a lessor extent, your words. "Equal access" is more important than life itself!!! never said that and while i may argue an opposing view, doesn't mean i necessarily agree with it ... after all this is a discussion group, therefore one could suggest that some people may choose the option of taking an opposing line to generate further discussion then again Do you agree with the blind adults that sued the German hospitals because the hospitals caused their blindness? The hospitals actually caused there blindness. It is now a well known fact. Why? Because the babies were born so premature, that the only way known (at the time) to keep them alive in the 1950's was to place them in an incubator with 100% oxygen, which ruined their eyes and made them blind for life. Roger Ohio again a catch 22, do you utilise the knowledge and technology of the time to save a life, or aimlessly stand by and watch them die . ? I disagree with the suits, on those grounds However, if it was found that they knew the oxygen levels/ratios would cause irrepairable damge i would not . maree GREAT MAGAZINES - FREE! === Get great deals and free trials of your favorite magazines through Topica! Click here: http://click.topica.com/caaac7Fb1dhdKb1tdQUg/subscribe ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 For meals, baking recipes and advice, visit veryBestBaking.com from Nestle. Enjoy hundreds of recipes and baking advice from trusted brands such as Nestle Toll House, Carnation Milk, and Libby's Pumpkin. http://click.topica.com/caaaeKnb1dhdKb1tdRUg/Nestle ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
Win a FREE Family Vacation!
To your favorite drive-to vacation spot from Bid4Vacations
Condos 7 days for $299, Cruises - bids start at $1
http://click.topica.com/caaaeE5b1dhdKb1tdRUb/Bid4Vacations
For a LIMITED TIME, you will receive a no obligation credit
restoration analysis by phone from a reputable credit
professional. DISCOVER options for removing negative marks
from your credit report and improving your credit rating.
To take advantage of this FREE offer, click here now:
http://click.topica.com/caaaeR9b1dhdKb1tdQUb/eCreditRepair
maree wrote:
Don't you think that the focus should be on what has turned a
person into a drug addict ... while I don't have a problem with the
concept of work .. I do believe there needs to be more ... and maybe
confiscation of ALL assets of any dealers and associates
...
maree
-
Original Message -No no no and no again. The
liberals love to spend millions of tax dollars on figuring out why some
dunce became a drug addict. WHO CARES? Lets focus our attention on
curing him not analyzing his FEELINGS. It gives you way more bang for the
buck.janice
isn't part of the cure,
finding out the problem? maree
Marree, hello!!! The problem is a lack of willpower!!! Any body
home???
When I get fat, it is because I eat too much. I choose to eat
those great meals and the fantastic deserts. I have a tremendous weakness
for great apple pie, cake made from scratch, ice cream. You know the
drill. Damn, those genes and taste buds!!! And that woman who makes those
goodies I cannot refuse She is evil!! I am slobering like a dog as I
write this! Can any body help me??? PLEASE!!! PLEASE (Throw
money at me!)
OK, ok, I am all right now. Keep your money. I got control of
myself. I was ready to jump in my pkup and go to Mom's and eat that half a
pie I know she has sitting on the counter and the grab that ice cream in
the fridge... but no, I will overcome my
weakness.
Mom enables me to be fat!!! No matter what I say, she keeps making
those pies and cakes for Dad. And worse yet, he isn't fat! Why did I
get so cheated by the genes!!! (hmmm... maybe I am adopted??!!) So
that is what is wrong with me!!! Thank God. I thought it was my lack
of will power, but no! It is the genes!! HOORAY! Free at last! Thank God,
I am free of guilt at last!!!
Oh
well, I will not go to Mom's today. I will stay away from that person who
enables me to get fat That nasty woman!!! Who does she think she is
baking all those cakes and pies. I will prevail I will resist
her evilness!!!
Why can I do it??? Because I have a brain that works Thank
God!
Roger Ohio
wow!
do we feel better now?
so how long has it taken you to
develop this will power?
maree
Keep in touch with your loved ones with a free phone.
Here's the Deal! Ericsson R289LX= $0.00, Shipping and
Handling= $0.00, Total= $0.00 $50.00 Ericsson Rebate=
+$50.00, $30.00 AT&T Service Credit= +$30.00
http://click.topica.com/caaaeDfb1dhdKb1tdQUg/AT&T
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
For meals, baking recipes and advice, visit veryBestBaking.com
from Nestle. Enjoy hundreds of recipes and baking advice from
trusted brands such as Nestle Toll
House, Carnation Milk, and Libby's Pumpkin.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeKnb1dhdKb1tdRUg/Nestle
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
FLUSH FAT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM with Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar! http://click.topica.com/caaaeEAb1dhdKb1tdRUb/CiderVinegar For a limited time, get special low prices on select HP Netservers, HP Omnibooks, and HP desktop computers. HP products are powerful, reliable and built to last. http://click.topica.com/caaaeCZb1dhdKb1tdQUb/Hewlett-Packard In a message dated 12/10/01 9:53:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't you think that the focus should be on what has turned a person into a drug addict ... while I don't have a problem with the concept of work .. I do believe there needs to be more ... and maybe confiscation of ALL assets of any dealers and associates ... maree - Original Message - No no no and no again. The liberals love to spend millions of tax dollars on figuring out why some dunce became a drug addict. WHO CARES? Lets focus our attention on curing him not analyzing his FEELINGS. It gives you way more bang for the buck.janice isn't part of the cure, finding out the problem? maree For a LIMITED TIME, you will receive a no obligation credit restoration analysis by phone from a reputable credit professional. DISCOVER options for removing negative marks from your credit report and improving your credit rating. To take advantage of this FREE offer, click here now: http://click.topica.com/caaaeC8b1dhdKb1tdQUg/eCreditRepair ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 FREE SUBSCRIPTION === Get a FREE year's subscription to Ladies' Home Journal! Click now to sign up: http://click.topica.com/caaac7Bb1dhdKb1tdRUg/subscribe == ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
FLUSH FAT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM with Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar! http://click.topica.com/caaaeEAb1dhdKb1tdRUa/CiderVinegar > Football Betting Bonanza from SportsInteraction, > the world's most interactive venue for sports betting > Click here to start betting on Pro Football! > http://click.topica.com/caaaeNkb1dhdKb1tdQUa/SportsInteraction > > (BIG Mistake) i don't think so > > Lady -- You come walk a mile or two in my shoes, see what I've seen and live > through the hell that I've lived through ... then we'll talk. Until then, > don't you dare call me anything! I'm not some pansy-assed liberal who's seen > a couple of TV documentaries and maybe read a book on the subject ... I've > seen it up close and personal over a period of 30 years... And you don't think i have? tell me then if you have had all this experience. why is it that you generalise that drug addicts are cowards? Not all addicts have the same opportunities, many actually are forced into their dependence. In psychological studies they have actually found a part of the brain that is different in addicts, they have alos found that while the brain and nervous system naturally produce drugs, some are more susceptible to addiction because of anomalies within the brain than others... Now while i would not argue that this is the case for all addicts, not all are cowards Tell me have you ever been addicted to anything? caffeine, cigarettes, alcahol, gambling ... all drugs of one form or another... all affect differently I've seen what addiction does to families, and i've also seen where young people are rejected by their families, and turn to drugs as a means of escape... I've seen people turned out on the streets, where prostitution and drugs are their means of survival, now you may argue that these people are cowards, but i would argue that our system has failed them... > > Go play in traffic. > > LG > I don't think so, I work with people who are the victims of traffic you go and play, and then come walk in my shoes maree > > TREAT THE FAMILY TO DIRECTV ® available from your SBC > Ameritech telephone company. Bring home a gift that > everyone will share and appreciate for years to come! > Expires 1/15/02 > http://click.topica.com/caaaeKEb1dhdKb1tdQUf/DirecTV > > > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > ATTENTION Email Marketers! Topica Email Publisher is the most affordable email marketing solution. Create professional HTML newsletters, Track and report on campaigns, target mailings, and more! Try it FREE for 60 days! Click here: http://click.topica.com/caaaePWb1dhdKb1tdRUf/TopicaEmailPublisher ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Bush & Treaties.... welfare and Voting
FLUSH FAT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM with Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar! http://click.topica.com/caaaeEAb1dhdKb1tdRUb/CiderVinegar Football Betting Bonanza from SportsInteraction, the world's most interactive venue for sports betting Click here to start betting on Pro Football! http://click.topica.com/caaaeNkb1dhdKb1tdQUb/SportsInteraction If keeping someone from doing something really stupid that puts themselves and those around them at risk of death (like people in wheel chairs in 110 story buildings) makes me a discriminatory person, so be it. My discrimination will (and has in the past) saved lives. Surely then, if people in wheel chairs are to have access to buildings of such height then there should also be a responsibility on the owners / developers / architects to ensure that the same risks are countered, building codes should reflect and adequately cover these problems. While you may argue that this is not a viable option, nor is the option to limit the height that there is wheel chair access. It is another catch 22, you discriminate to save lives, by denying equal access. The law should keep people in wheel chairs from endangering other people as any law should be to protect other people. If a person wants to be stupid and risk their life, that is OK with me; I think we should have that right. But when one persons risk taking endangers other lives, that is when the law should step in and say no. As far as your amusement goes, I see nothing amusing about dozens of wheel chairs jammed in a stairwell in a burning building. But, after all, you are only about 20 years old and your heart rule your opinions instead of your brain. Perfectly understandable. Roger Ohio My amusement was not of a comic nature. And as for your judgement of myself and my age and my opinions try again maree The creator of this web-based guide earns six figures a year from his basement. Come read this unique guide for free right now, and discover exactly how you can make YOUR living online. (It's easier than you might think.) http://click.topica.com/caaaeeyb1dhdKb1tdQUg/make-a-living-online ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ATTENTION Email Marketers! Topica Email Publisher is the most affordable email marketing solution. Create professional HTML newsletters, Track and report on campaigns, target mailings, and more! Try it FREE for 60 days! Click here: http://click.topica.com/caaaePWb1dhdKb1tdRUg/TopicaEmailPublisher ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Bush & Treaties.... welfare and Voting
Thinking about selling your home within the next 5 months?
Don't gamble with the biggest transaction of your life!
Use HomeGains free service to find & compare local
Realtors®.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeDib1dhdKb1tdRUb/HomeGain
I have read what you have written, and I disagree, while
I have a problem with people on welfare because they are too lazy to get off
their butts and do something for themselves, I don't believe that they should be
precluded from voting. They not only have that right as a citizen, but also that
responsibility, morally and legally. After all governments are predicated
on the idea that they are there to represent the people. All the people,
not just those who can afford them.
On the other hand the governments are there for the
people, and therefore should have programs for them to re-enter the workforce.
Even if that does include gardening, military service, or some form of community
program. Even if it means sending some back into the school system to be
re-educated in some form or another. And maybe that is where these issues should
be addressed, it seems there is a continuum of the downgrding of education
standards that seem to correlate with the increase in welfare costs
As for your comments regarding wheel chairs I found
them amusing, but you seem to enjoy provoking responses by the use of
disciminatory niches.
But, if I was in a wheel chair... I don't think I'd like to be on the 68th
floor either But I also wouldn't want to be told that I couldn't be
there!
maree
- Original Message -
From:
Roger J.
Wright
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:32
AM
Subject: Re: {W&P} Bush &
Treaties welfare and Voting
For a limited time, get special low prices on select HP
Netservers, HP Omnibooks, and HP desktop computers.
HP products are powerful, reliable and built to last.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeCZb1dhdKb1tdQUb/Hewlett-Packard
====maree wrote:
And what makes you believe that people on welfare, the
recipients of the redispersion of taxation, actually vote for those in
power? Do they actually vote at all? Surely you don't suggest that
we turn the clock back 200 yrs+ to the days when only the aristocracy and
those with vested interests had right to say how society was run? Surely
we have moved onand the rights of citizenship means more than money? And
you must also remember that a number of the people that you refer to as
welfare recipients are not there of their own choice.
Some people are not in a position to make that
choice. The concept of welfare is to enable people of the lower eschalons
to be educated and have opportunities to achieve. If you take that away
from them, you will be further degredating society. Surel the means to
alleviate the problems of welfare are to provide better education, rather
than further discrimination.
I don't believe that those on welfare actually are in charge of the
cheque book. As I also understand the system, you are only permitted to be
on welfare for a certain period of time, and must find employment. What
about those on welfare who are disabled? or those because their marriage
has broken down, or because businesses have shut down, or because some
illness has befallen the family, which means that the person who would
normally be employed becomes the primary care giver?
maree
As with any rule, there should be exceptions. However, I do not want to
create another "agency" to determine who should vote and who should not.
Keep it simple. Everyone receiving public assistance is reported to the board
of elections and they are not allowed to vote. Whether they are on assistance
by choice or by unfair circumstances, they should not be allowed to vote.
Further, I like to think that voters determine (very indirectly) how money is
spent by the government. As crude as it sounds, if a person is forced on
welfare because of a broken marriage, well, I didn't pick him (her).
The welfare limitation is a relatively new law, but there are dozens of
other types of public assistance that have no limitations, and some should not
have limitations, just for some of the cases you mentioned... but they should
still not be allowed to vote.
While on improper laws and rules, I do not think people in wheel chairs
should be in sky scrapers. The press has not allowed much of this story to be
reported, but many people trying to get out of the WTC found stairwells jammed
wi
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
==
Is your child struggling in school?
Live, Online Tutoring from eSylvan.
Save $100 with eSylvan!
http://click.topica.com/caaaeHZb1dhdKb1tdRUa/ESylvan
==
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties
>
> Win a FREE Family Vacation!
> To your favorite drive-to vacation spot from Bid4Vacations
> Condos 7 days for $299, Cruises - bids start at $1
> http://click.topica.com/caaaeE5b1dhdKb1tdQUa/Bid4Vacations
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/01 3:37:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Gee I don't know tell me how many drug addicts have you met?
Because
> many actually have serious emotional problems. There are alos those who
> succumb to peer pressure, and those who have been froced into it because
> they live on the streets because their everso noce caring families have
> kicked them out. Then there are those who just use drugs as a means of
> escaping reality. Surely the people who you should be focussing your anger
> and irritation are those that profit from addicts... the pushers, sellers
> etc .. they are the cowards>>
>
> I don't have enough fingers and toes to count 'em ... And some of them
you'd
> never suspect because of the positions that they hold.
>
> Through family members I have met, shall we say, interesting people. You
> know, they actually have a code that they live by ... you wouldn't think
so,
> but they do. At least when they respect you, they do.
>
> I don't consider the pushers cowards, they're opportunists praying on
other
> people's weaknesses. And if I had my druthers, when they were caught
dealing
> they'd be put down like a wounded animal ... no fuss, muss or bother --
just
> eliminate the slimes asap.
>
> But the users with all their excuses about how they [fling hair back]
"Can't
> Cope" ... Maybe 1 in 10 have a really legitimate excuse that would hold
water
> but the majority of them don't. They're cowards, unable to face life --
all
> they want is a quick escape and they could care less who gets hurt in the
> process -- OR -- maybe not ... Maybe they're just so blasted stupid they
> don't know any better ... but either way, I have no use for them.
>
> LG
Must really be nice to have a prefect life, and be so perfect .. how
very shallow and judgemental you are
maree
>
>
> LOOKING FOR FREE GROCERY COUPONS? Visit the #1 coupon site
> on the Web - CoolSavings! Save on food, baby needs, bath &
> body items, cleaning supplies and more! Click here to
> enroll!
> http://click.topica.com/caaadTXb1dhdKb1tdQUf/CoolSavings
>
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
The creator of this web-based guide earns six figures a
year from his basement. Come read this unique guide for
free right now, and discover exactly how you can make YOUR
living online. (It's easier than you might think.)
http://click.topica.com/caaaeeyb1dhdKb1tdRUf/make-a-living-online
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} guns, knives and political games
Are you at risk for Diabetes? Click here to find out. Hit the Target. Be on Guard Against Type 2 Diabetes. Get Informed! http://click.topica.com/caaaeI2b1dhdKb1tdRUa/MealtimeMatters > > Win a FREE Family Vacation! > To your favorite drive-to vacation spot from Bid4Vacations > Condos 7 days for $299, Cruises - bids start at $1 > http://click.topica.com/caaaeE5b1dhdKb1tdQUa/Bid4Vacations > > > In a message dated 12/10/01 11:22:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << Are the personel also working for and getting their paychecks from > federal, state, country or city goverments? Or are they working for and > getting their paychecks from private companys that run the prisons for the > above? >> > __ > They get their paychecks from federal, state, country or city goverments > depending upon which system they're working for. We see government tax > measures all the time about building a new prison or hiring more guards for > the local jail. > > LG > Usually what happens is that a contract to build a prison is put to tender process. Then the contract to run the prison is put to tender process. This also includes the payment of employees, therefore the company who has the tender to run the prison pays the employees. Only if the prison is government controlled, state, federal or local do the paychecks come from government. maree > == > Is your child struggling in school? > Live, Online Tutoring from eSylvan. > Save $100 with eSylvan! > http://click.topica.com/caaaeHZb1dhdKb1tdQUf/ESylvan > == > > ___ > Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. > > > A93MR48T18 > > The creator of this web-based guide earns six figures a year from his basement. Come read this unique guide for free right now, and discover exactly how you can make YOUR living online. (It's easier than you might think.) http://click.topica.com/caaaeeyb1dhdKb1tdRUf/make-a-living-online ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
TREAT THE FAMILY TO DIRECTV ® available from your SBC
Ameritech telephone company. Bring home a gift that
everyone will share and appreciate for years to come!
Expires 1/15/02
http://click.topica.com/caaaeKEb1dhdKb1tdRUa/DirecTV
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties
>
> Become a Fool! Get out of debt, Learn how to invest and
> Take control of your finances. Register with The Motley
> Fool! It's free. Get special offers for investors too.
> http://click.topica.com/caaaeyHb1dhdKb1tdQUa/MotleyFool
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/01 9:53:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Don't you think that the focus should be on what has turned a person
into
> a drug addict >>
> ___
> I don't think that focusing on the fact that the drug addict is a
> lily-livered coward that never grew up would really solve anything ...
surely
> they already know that, don't they?
>
> LG
Gee I don't know tell me how many drug addicts have you met? Because
many actually have serious emotional problems. There are alos those who
succumb to peer pressure, and those who have been froced into it because
they live on the streets because their everso noce caring families have
kicked them out. Then there are those who just use drugs as a means of
escaping reality. Surely the people who you should be focussing your anger
and irritation are those that profit from addicts... the pushers, sellers
etc .. they are the cowards
maree
>
> ==
> Is your child struggling in school?
> Live, Online Tutoring from eSylvan.
> Save $100 with eSylvan!
> http://click.topica.com/caaaeHWb1dhdKb1tdQUf/ESylvan
> ==
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
==
Is your child struggling in school?
Live, Online Tutoring from eSylvan.
Save $100 with eSylvan!
http://click.topica.com/caaaeHZb1dhdKb1tdRUf/ESylvan
==
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
Enter to Win Free Maid Service and More from Pfizer!
Win Free Maid Service for 6 Months, a "Day of Beauty" or
a Palm Handheld! Enter Now!
http://click.topica.com/caaaeHRb1dhdKb1tdRUb/Pfizer
- Original Message -
From:
Roger J.
Wright
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:35
PM
Subject: Re: {W&P} Bush &
Treaties
Introducing Adobe DesignTeam, the Web-based collaboration
service from Adobe Studio(r).Try it free for a month and
see why it's the easiest way to manage your design
projects. Get your free 30 day trial now
http://click.topica.com/caaaeFLb1dhdKb1tdQUb/AdobeDesignTeam
I suggest people on public assistance should not be allowed to vote. That
will eliminate politicians buying votes with taxpayer's money. That will
make politicians "earn" the vote of the people that make the economy strong
instead of partially or completely ignoring them. I think that is the only
change necessary to solve the problem completely.
And what makes you believe that people on welfare,
the recipients of the redispersion of taxation, actually vote for those in
power? Do they actually vote at all? Surely you don't suggest that we
turn the clock back 200 yrs+ to the days when only the aristocracy and those
with vested interests had right to say how society was run? Surely we have
moved onand the rights of citizenship means more than money? And you must also
remember that a number of the people that you refer to as welfare recipients
are not there of their own choice.
If people value their right to vote, they will avoid public assistance or
or get off as soon as possible. If they do not value their right to vote, they
can (as far as I am concerned) stay on public assistance as long as they do
not vote for the people making the policies and laws regarding public
assistance.
Some people are not in a position to make that
choice. The concept of welfare is to enable people of the lower eschalons to
be educated and have opportunities to achieve. If you take that away from
them, you will be further degredating society. Surel the means to alleviate
the problems of welfare are to provide better education, rather than further
discrimination.
We do not let under age people vote because they are irresponsible. People
on public assistance, to some extent, have befallen circumstances that have
put then in a position they are unable to take care of themselves, thus the
government picks up part or all of the tab for their living expenses. If
welfare recipients are allowed to vote, the person receiving the money is
allowed to tell the giver of the money how much money to give the receiver. No
"employee" should be allowed to be in charge of the "employer's" check book.
Roger Ohio
I don't believe that those on welfare actually are in charge of the
cheque book. As I also understand the system, you are only permitted to be on
welfare for a certain period of time, and must find employment. What about
those on welfare who are disabled? or those because their marriage has broken
down, or because businesses have shut down, or because some illness has
befallen the family, which means that the person who would normally be
employed becomes the primary care giver?
maree==
Is your child struggling in school?
Live, Online Tutoring from eSylvan.
Save $100 with eSylvan!
http://click.topica.com/caaaeHWb1dhdKb1tdQUg/ESylvan
==___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
For a limited time, get special low prices on select HP
Netservers, HP Omnibooks, and HP desktop computers.
HP products are powerful, reliable and built to last.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeCZb1dhdKb1tdRUg/Hewlett-Packard
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
This email was sent to: archive@jab.org
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^
Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: {W&P} Bush & Treaties....
Debt Worries? Get Relief Now! Free Online Consultation
Settle Your Debts for Pennies on the Dollar! We Work For You
Resolve Your Debt! No Bankruptcy! Attorney Representation
http://click.topica.com/caaaeKKb1dhdKb1tdRUb/Sharpnet
- Original Message -
From:
james gale
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:28
AM
Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV:
{W&P} Bush & Treaties
Become a Fool! Get out of debt, Learn how to invest and
Take control of your finances. Register with The Motley
Fool! It's free. Get special offers for investors too.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeyHb1dhdKb1tdQUb/MotleyFool
Just a question. Just suppose
that all countries abandoned all social program forthe unwed mothers the
drugaddicted the insane the lazy the handicapped the infirm. many of these
could be considered Able bodied what happens then. No support no money coming
in no shelters. I suggest that that is a price we wouldn't want to pay. We
would be back in Dickensen England or worse.
Or maybe a few
decades ago when illegal abortions were prevalent, girls were sent to homes
and their babies taken away .
Now can we get tougher on the
people that show up time after time on the dole. A girl gets one free child
andthen herchildren get taken away perhaps?
What happened to
child support from the father ... surely it is not only the female that has to
bear the responsibility..
A man gets so many
payments and then if he hasn't found a job into the armed forces as a cook or
grounds keeper perhaps.
and who will raise
the children?
A drug addict gets one chance
to clean up and he spends quality time in a national park cutting grass ect.
It could be done. Its just too easy now. Jim
Don't you think
that the focus should be on what has turned a person into a drug addict ...
while I don't have a problem with the concept of work .. I do believe there
needs to be more ... and maybe confiscation of ALL assets of any dealers and
associates ...
maree
- Original Message -
From:
Claes
Persson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:55
AM
Subject: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV:
{W&P} Bush & Treaties
Football Betting Bonanza from SportsInteraction,
the world's most interactive venue for sports betting
Click here to start betting on Pro Football!
http://click.topica.com/caaaeKQb1dhdKb2MYdTb/SportsInteraction
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001
11:46 AM
Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: SV:
{W&P} Bush & Treaties
In a message dated
12/6/01 1:37:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I meant: where has it gone wrong in the USA when you cant
make sure that every citizen at least have a deasent way of living in
spite of so low prises on many
commodities?___
The point is why should the taxpayer make sure every lazy low
life has a free ride. People who are TRULY in need are well taken care of
by the government and by charities. But if you are an able bodied person,
there is no reason you need a handout from the hardworking taxpayers. Drug
addiction is not a reason to expect to be taken care of. It is a personal
choice for a person to remain that way. having children when you are not
married is a personal choice. Neither of these things should be the
responsibility of the taxpayer.
janice
--No. The point is: How come that the taxpayer in USA always see
themselves as victims and not as the fortunate ones? They can pay tax.
They have what they need or they wouln't qualify as taxpayers. Some
positive thinking would help, don't you think?
Claes
§( :8-)
For meals, baking recipes and advice, visit veryBestBaking.com
from Nestle. Enjoy hundreds of recipes and baking advice from
trusted brands such as Nestle Toll
House, Carnation Milk, and Libby's Pumpkin.
http://click.topica.com/caaaeKnb1dhdKb2MYdTg/Nestle
__
Re: {W&P} Expulsion
Open an IRA online at WellsFargo.com At Wells Fargo we have an IRA for every type of investor Let us open the door to your secure retirement http://click.topica.com/caaabEzb1dhdKb1tdRUa/WellsFargo > Come discover 1,700 of the world's most talented artists and > Save $15 OFF any purchase! From Bali to Brazil, Thailand to > Peru, select from 8,500 handcrafted works of fine art, > unique gifts, and home décor! > http://click.topica.com/caaabH6b1dhdKb1tdQUa/Novica > ==== > > Maree: > > What actually were the Russians caught doing, or is it just > > supposition ? > > I thought the cold war had ended. > > Isn't the spy thing a bit parse? > > > Tim: > > I thought it was in response to the recent revelation of > > the FBI double agent who "gave away the farm". > > > > > Maree: > > haven't heard that one, would you care to elaborate ? > > > Tim: > > I am referring to the FBI agent who allegedly supplied the > > Russians with information including the identity of two > > KGB double agents (who were subsequently executed) and the > > listening tunnel under the Russian Embassy. > > > Maree: > > An American student who was investigated on suspicion of > > espionage and charged with possession of marijuana may > > instead face more serious drug charges. > > > > Tim: > OK. I'm not sure I follow the flow here. > > Tim > My apologies, left out the linking explanation / question the student was arrested in Russia, and with the climate at the moment it appears that the original possession charges have been severely increased to include espionage... Is there a link between this and the expulsion of Russion diplomats ? Does this also mean that there will be a rebirth of the cold war antagonisms ? maree > > Searching for "a clean, well-organized place" for email? My > Topica was designed with people like you in mind. Stop by > and see what you think at > http://click.topica.com/caaabBzb1dhdKb1tdQUf/register > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > Take the guesswork out of genealogy. Go to Ancestry.com today and sign up for your free 14-day trial. Use the site risk free and enjoy the No. 1 Source for Family History Online. http://click.topica.com/caaabFbb1dhdKb1tdRUf/MyFamily ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 ==^
Re: {W&P} New member - 2nd Moderator.
Open an IRA online at WellsFargo.com At Wells Fargo we have an IRA for every type of investor Let us open the door to your secure retirement http://click.topica.com/caaabEzb1dhdKb1tdRUa/WellsFargo > Win a trip to a Club Med of your choice and improve > your ability to keep in touch with business > contacts and friends. To learn more, go to: > http://click.topica.com/aaabAPb1dhdKb1tdQUa/PeopleStreet > > > I travel extensively and can not always post twice a day. E-mail on the ship > is iffy at best. Must I unsubscribe??? > > Pat > > No, and hello maree > > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Wanna Throw That PC Out the Window? > Not yet. First, check our technology forum for help. > http://click.topica.com/4Ob1dhdKb1tdQUc/rebootmypc > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > --- Sponsor's Message -- Who Are the Top Dogs? Find out about the best newsletters and discussions! http://click.topica.com/c4qb1dhdKb1tdRUf/TopDogs ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 ==^
Re: bombing? Re: {W&P} Group Policy, etc.
XX FLAGS, BANNERS, SIGNAGE XX Let us make your next event or promotion a success!! Free Quotes, Highest Quality printing, All size Jobs http://click.topica.com/aaabGdb1dhdKb1tdRUa/flags > > Molton Michel's Perfume - Get it before the May Launch > This Luxurious Perfume Mingles with your Natural Scent > Creating a truly Customized Perfume. Limited Supplies. > http://click.topica.com/aaabGeb1dhdKb1tdQUa/perfume > ======== > > > From: maree > maree > > p.s another bombing in Jerusalem ? > > - > > I hadn't heard that... when? > > > John T > A suicide bombing at a gas station in central Israel killed three people Wednesday, The explosion near the Israeli border with the Palestinian West Bank came one day after a suicide bomber blew himself up in Jerusalem, injuring scores of passengers on a bus. It took place between the Israeli city of Kfar Sava and the Palestinian city of Qalqilya. A few minutes before the blast, a bomb was discovered and defused in the open-air market in the coastal resort of Netanya, where a suicide bomber and three other people were killed in an explosion about two weeks ago. In six months of fighting between Israel and the Palestinians, more than 435 people have been killed, including 358 Palestinians and 60 Israeli Jews. maree > > > My Topica holds the key to optimum email health. Sign up for > this free email management system today. And experience the > well-being of a well-organized inbox tomorrow. > http://click.topica.com/aaabDjb1dhdKb1tdQUc/register > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > "Before myTopica, I was buried in an avalanche of email. Now, thanks to this free solution, I am on top of my inbox." Get rescued at http://click.topica.com/aaabBBb1dhdKb1tdRUc/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Expulsion
BROADWAY TRAVEL. The Latin Travel Specialist. All Airlines, Tours, and Top Vacation Spots in Mexico, Central & South Americas. Bi-Lingual Site & Service. http://click.topica.com/aaabGgb1dhdKb1tdRUa/decoy > > > maree wrote: > > > > > > > What actually were the Russians caught doing, or is it just > > > supposition ? > > > > I thought the cold war had ended. > > > > Isn't the spy thing a bit parse? > > > > maree > > > > > > > > > > I thought it was in response to the recent revelation of > > > the FBI double agent who "gave away the farm". > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > haven't heard that one, would you care to elaborate ? > > > > maree > > > > > I am referring to the FBI agent who allegedly supplied the > Russians with information including the identity of two > KGB double agents (who were subsequently executed) and the > listening tunnel under the Russian Embassy. > > Tim > An American student who was investigated on suspicion of espionage and charged with possession of marijuana may instead face more serious drug charges. maree > > Searching for "a clean, well-organized place" for email? My > Topica was designed with people like you in mind. Stop by > and see what you think at > http://click.topica.com/aaabBzb1dhdKb1tdQUc/register > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > Slim down your email inbox. And firm up your newsletter flow with My Topica's email newsletter organizer. It's free of charge, free of calories. No dieting required! http://click.topica.com/aaabDkb1dhdKb1tdRUc/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Expulsion
Join the World of Sephora and receive beauty news & trends from the best brands in beauty. Get exclusive invitations to Sephora special events in your area. Sign up now. http://click.topica.com/aaabFfb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Sephora > > BROADWAY TRAVEL. The Latin Travel Specialist. > All Airlines, Tours, and Top Vacation Spots in Mexico, > Central & South Americas. Bi-Lingual Site & Service. > http://click.topica.co > ==== > > > > maree wrote: > > > What actually were the Russians caught doing, or is it just > supposition ? > > I thought the cold war had ended. > > Isn't the spy thing a bit parse? > > maree > > > > I thought it was in response to the recent revelation of > the FBI double agent who "gave away the farm". > > Tim > haven't heard that one, would you care to elaborate ? maree > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Does Windows ME Work for You? > Tell it to the list! Join our special technology discussion. > http://click.topica.co > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > > My Topica holds the key to optimum email health. Sign up for this free email management system today. And experience the well-being of a well-organized inbox tomorrow. http://click.topica.com/aaabDjb1dhdKb1tdRUc/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Group Policy, etc.
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUb/sausage From: maree (John) Yep, and you now qualify for the booby prize :) OK ! but there is really no need ! Ok! in that case the prize has been rescinded! now i am disappointed ! See why the 'must post' rule is usually ineffective? Thanks maree :) (and I have now satisfied the '2 post' rule and shall be quiet :)) Oh !!! now if everyone has that attitude, the list will remain quiet Well, someone has to obey the Rules, after all :) But I don't see anyone else posting their 2 posts where oh where are all the others? lurking in the background John T PS: Any comments on the removal of Russian 'agents' from the US and the Russian response? see other postmaree Seen and Responded... but now I have to nod off... have a nice day :) John T Night actually ! maree p.s another bombing in Jerusalem ? Get a better night's sleep tonight knowing that your email subscriptions are busy filing and sorting themselves. So they'll be just where you need them to be in the morning. http://click.topica.com/aaabDob1dhdKb1tdQUd/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 A personal trainer for your email inbox, My Topica's free newsletter management system provides total email conditioning thru archives, organizers, and options. http://click.topica.com/aaabDlb1dhdKb1tdRUd/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Expulsion
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUa/sausage > All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only > US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for > HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead > PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 > http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdQUa/sausage > > >[John T] That's what was making headlines... they said that the spy population has > reached Cold War levels... unfortunately, I've been working OT for the past > week and haven't had much time to check anything... I was hoping that some > of the folks on this list would have some info to share... > I get the NY Times daily, and have only just caught up, but there was only one story in the past weeks about it... said that the US plans to expel 50 Russian diplomats between now and JUly, only reason is that they were persuing activities incompatible with their status, What ever that means ? > And now everything seems to be swept under the carpet.. I haven't seen nor > heard of anything since the news article last Thursday (at least I think it > was Thursday :)) > And you expected otherwise ? Is the new administration testing the waters ? > But the 'spy thing' is still going strong... technology that can be stolen > sure costs less than technology which is licensed... > Yes, but do they have the capabilities to use or develop further... Not necessarily knowledge but financial or infrastructure that has been decimated through lack of modernisation ? > I still remember when the first low-end Soviet LED watch was released > it was an almost exact duplicate of a Timex - the only difference was that > it's circuits were mirror imaged... as if they were copied from a magazine > photo (and at the time, Timex had an advertisement which included a photo of > their circuit board :)) > must have been before my time !! > Of course, that could also have been some misinformation released to > tarnish the Soviets... who knows what was true and what wasn't... I doubt if > anyone could keep it all straight :) > Depends on which side of the iron curtain you're on ! > Any comments on 'disinformation'??? > > John T > > is this a new word ? maree > > > > Get fast, safe relief from email headaches without > medication! My Topica's free email management remedy is > designed to remove that pain from your brain. > Just what the doctor ordered. > http://click.topica.com/aaabDpb1dhdKb1tdQUc/register > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > My Topica holds the key to optimum email health. Sign up for this free email management system today. And experience the well-being of a well-organized inbox tomorrow. http://click.topica.com/aaabDjb1dhdKb1tdRUc/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Group Policy, etc.
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUb/sausage (John) Yep, and you now qualify for the booby prize :) OK ! but there is really no need ! See why the 'must post' rule is usually ineffective? Thanks maree :) (and I have now satisfied the '2 post' rule and shall be quiet :)) Oh !!! now if everyone has that attitude, the list will remain quiet John T PS: Any comments on the removal of Russian 'agents' from the US and the Russian response? see other postmaree - Original Message - From: maree - Original Message - From: Jerek Landin Excuse me for the typos** Jerek Landin Your 2nd Only if I have to ! Hey, that's 2 posts in i day ! maree Enter the email zone through My Topica - a free email subscription system designed to maximize email efficiency and minimize inbox overload. Sign up today. http://click.topica.com/aaabBEb1dhdKb1tdQUd/register ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 --- Sponsor's Message -- Need Tech Help? Fret no more. Get quick answers on our Q&A tech forum! http://click.topica.com/4Nb1dhdKb1tdRUd/rebootmypc ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
RE: {W&P} Expulsion
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUa/sausage > > X SAVE 50%-70% OFF INK JET CARTRIDGES & LASER TONER!! X > FREE SHIPPING, All Major Brands, Cartridges Starting at $4.95 > Satisfaction Guaranteed or your Money Back without question! > http://click.topica.com/aaabECb1dhdKb1tdQUa/inkjet > > > > > So, that being said who wants to start talking about War and Politics? > What's the latest 'hot spot'? Any comments on the removal of Russian > 'agents' from the US and the Russian response? > > John T - War and Politics Owner > Does this mean that there will be tit for tat revivals, and I can do it better than you can mentality ? What actually were the Russians caught doing, or is it just supposition ? I thought the cold war had ended. Isn't the spy thing a bit parse? maree --- Sponsor's Message -- Discuss Tech News as It Happens! Keep up with the latest happenings in high tech -- FREE! http://click.topica.com/4Ib1dhdKb1tdRUc/technology ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Group Policy, etc.
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only
US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for
HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead
PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7
http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUb/sausage
- Original Message -
From:
Jerek
Landin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:02
AM
Subject: Re: {W&P} Group Policy,
etc.
IT’S ABOUT TIME! If you are over age 50, claim the discounts
you deserve at SeniorDiscounts.com. You've earned it, so
take advantage--FREE access to over 40,000 discounts!
http://click.topica.com/aaabEsb1dhdKb1tdQUb/seniordiscounts
Excuse me for the typos**
Jerek Landin Your 2nd Moderator.
Only if I have to
!
Hey, that's 2 posts in i day !
maree--- Sponsor's Message --
Does Windows ME Work for You?
Tell it to the list! Join our special technology discussion.
http://click.topica.com/4Jb1dhdKb1tdQUd/technology
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica
T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
--- Sponsor's Message --
Wanna Throw That PC Out the Window?
Not yet. First, check our technology forum for help.
http://click.topica.com/4Ob1dhdKb1tdRUd/rebootmypc
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica
T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Group Policy, etc.
All the Web Development Tools you will ever need for only US $49.95! HotDog Professional 6 Web Editor with support for HTML, ASP, PHP, CSS, JavaScript, VBScript PLUS Ulead PhotoImpact 5 and Cool 3D 2.5, Browser Master 2.1 and LinkBot 3.7 http://click.topica.com/aaabGWb1dhdKb1tdRUa/sausage - Original Message - From: "Jerek Landin > > Hello all. As your 2nd Moderator, I introduce to the War_and_Politics > version of Topica, your Policy. > > 1. You must post a required 2 posts per day, although you may as much as > yu want per day, 24/7, round the clock. > I post if there is something to respond to has this suddenly become a dictatorship? > 2. Stay on topic. This is a war & politics list not a car one, etc. > Either me, your 2nd Moderator or the list master John, will email you if > you are straying off. > thankyou > 3. Although this list is a privat discussion, if you have anything to > sell pertaining to the list topil, you may do so. Private information > such as address's, etc but be delt with off the list. > no thankyou > 4. When reply to someones message, please do not copy and paste thir > entire previous message, Only copy and paste a sentence or 2 so that the > reader may get a skim of the post. > and the person who's comments you are responding to would also be nice > 5. Try to refrain yourself from offending other people and we ask you > repect other's opinions. > now where's the fun in that ? > - Your right as a member. > > 1. You have the right to speak out and give your opinion on something. > so what topic do you suggest ? maree > 2. You have the right to contact your list Master or your 2nd Moderator > (me) to give complaints, suggestions, comments or to ask questions. You > may contact your List Master to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You may > contact your 2nd Moderator to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . > > NOTE **: BY CLOSING THIS MESSAGE, YOU AGREE TO ALL OF THE ABOVE. IF YOU > HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AND/OR PROBLEMS, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LIST MASTER OR > 2ND MODERATOR. > > > Thank you, > Jerek Landin > Your 2nd Moderator. > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Need Tech Help? > Fret no more. Get quick answers on our Q&A tech forum! > http://click.topica.com/4Nb1dhdKb1tdQUc/rebootmypc > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > --- Sponsor's Message -- Does Windows ME Work for You? Tell it to the list! Join our special technology discussion. http://click.topica.com/4Jb1dhdKb1tdRUc/technology ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Reply to the Confirmation Email sent by Topica T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} Back In The USSR?
Shop for your next car at Autoweb.com, where you'll get a guaranteed low price and haggle-free service. Click here to get a quote on the latest 2001 models. http://click.topica.com/aaabwtb1dhdKb1tdRUa/autoweb - Original Message - From: "John T" > Found this interesting article on the BBC site any comments? > > Back In The USSR? > > Do the return of soviet symbols and the reintroduction of compulsory > residential permits suggest Russia, under Putin, is returning to the > controls of the old USSR? > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/highlights/001130_russia.shtml Russia, from what I have read seems to have an endless cycle. There seems to be an embedded need for authoritarian paternal govt. In looking at their history, it seems that through control and through adversity, they have the capacity to generate growth. It is amazing what fear and violence can do for people. However, with the changes over the past decades, and the stagnation of their society, and the decimation and erosion of their military might in the eyes of the western world, maybe Russians will accept a return to previous controls, as a means of rebuilding. Hopefully, they will find a more reasonable way. But then again, Putin was in the secret police, so he is used to using force rather than reason.. That was evident after the sub went down and people were tranquilised in public view. Maybe they see that the only way for survival is a return to the old. Maybe, they look to the past, as a way to the future, because the present has only, generally speaking, seen the collapse of infrastrucure. And if you are fed propaganda that the reason for this is the westernisation of your country, you are probably going to end up believing that west IS NOT best maree > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > TOO MUCH DEBT? Discover how quickly and easily this reputable > Non-Profit service can help you reduce the finance charges on > your credit card debt by 50% and reduce your overall debt! This > is not a loan and there is no catch! Click here to learn more. > http://click.topica.com/aaabrnb1dhdKb1tdQUc/edebtconsolidation > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ DEBT REDUCTION HELP! Did you know you can get INSTANT assistance lowering your interest charges and debt? If you have $5000 or more in credit card debt, click here to learn more about this exceptional offer. http://click.topica.com/aaabrob1dhdKb1tdRUc/edebtconsolidation \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} nNew Year - Old Problems
--- Support Our Sponsor Dont miss the latest news in Consumer Electronics. Its all at the 2001 International CES! Registration is easy! Sign up now! http://click.topica.com/7Mb1dhdKb1tdRUa/ConsumerElectronic From: "Tamar Herzberg > > > > > > Well, what's everyone doing these days? > > > > > Relaxing in the pool > > Lucky Maree: Writing an assignment about Marx's > epistemology (don't even ask. By the way, I checked > and he's not one of the brothers...); Trying to find > out what went wrong with my newsletter's > (http://www.political-tips.com) server; and mainly > working. > I wrote and present my paper on Marx in August, and am on a break from uni for another month, so I will relax.. and move house also. > > > > > Is Saddam Hussein stepping down? > > > > > > > I don't think so, he is probably relishing in the US > > Presidential elections. > > There's a rumour here in the Mid East as if he had a > stroke. However, even if he dies, I doubt if his > successor will be much nicer. > What a shame, but its probably another sham... But I wouldn't expect anything different from his predecessor either. There has been far too much anti western propaganda. And furthermore, the people have associated the blame and hatred for their lives with the west... And that will take a long time to change. > > > Will OPEC cut back on production Again and raise > > Oil Prices? > > > > > probably, they have the upperhand, and know that > > because so much of the > > globe is at their disposal. > > Furthermore. Young Mr Bush has "some" oil interests. > Now, why doesn't that surprise me > > > > > Anyone have anything else they might want to > > discuss? > > > > > > > > whats happening in Israel at the moment ? > > War and Politics ;-) > War - even if you don't hear about it everyday in the > news, people keep on getting killed. For example: This > week a car blasted in Israel, a couple were killed in > the occupied territories (5 of their children wounded) > of Palestinian guns; Two men shot in Israel from the > territories (on a border area). In the Palestinian > side also - people (I think 3 were killed this week), > incl. a top member of the Tanzim - The PA's military > arm. > > > Politics - > (1) Clinton still tries to get the two sides to talk. > As we speak, they are in Washington, as if there is no > war. > (2) The couple who got killed in the territories, were > not just "a" couple. They were the son and daughter in > law of the notorious Rabbi Kahane. For those of you > who don't know: he was the Israeli version of a > Neo-Fascist/Aryan Nation - "kill all the Arabs, or at > least through them out". In the US he headed Jewish > Defence League - a violent organisation. I saw in > friday news coverage of their funral. Them crazy > followers shouting all these mantras and one of them > is holding a sign saying "I want war" - sure he does. > Most of these are Americans and Ultra Orthodox who > don't serve in the military. They don't care if out > brothers get killed for their cause. > > Tamar > > = > Visit http://www.political-tips.com - sign up for the FREE newsletter, where you can find information and links in politics and activism Visit our sponsor http://www.goingplatinum.com/member/tamrur and join to make money while surfing!!! > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Tech News...With Attitude! > Get the top stories in your in-box -- commentary included! > http://click.topica.com/4xb1dhdKb1tdQUc/technewsdaily > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Sponsor's Message -- Who Are the Top Dogs? Find out about the best newsletters and discussions! http://click.topica.com/4qb1dhdKb1tdRUc/TopDogs ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
Re: {W&P} New Year - Old Problems
--- Support Our Sponsor Dont miss the latest news in Consumer Electronics. Its all at the 2001 International CES! Registration is easy! Sign up now! http://click.topica.com/7Mb1dhdKb1tdRUa/ConsumerElectronic - Original Message - From: "John T" > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Get Only the Best Lists! > Get a daily profile of the best lists at Topica, FREE! > http://click.topica.com/PIb1dhdKb1tdQUa/BestLists > > > > > Well, what's everyone doing these days? > Relaxing in the pool > Is Saddam Hussein stepping down? > I don't think so, he is probably relishing in the US Presidential elections. Makes good propaganda that the leading Republican democracy is having so many problems. Adds to his anti-western stance. He must be rubbing his hands together and savouring the glory. > What's happening in Pakistan? > Well its not cricket ! > Will OPEC cut back on production Again and raise Oil Prices? > probably, they have the upperhand, and know that because so much of the globe is at their disposal. > Anyone have anything else they might want to discuss? > > whats happening in Israel at the moment ? maree > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Sponsor's Message -- Need Tech Help? Fret no more. Get quick answers on our Q&A tech forum! http://click.topica.com/4Nb1dhdKb1tdRUc/rebootmypc ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Indonesia
--- Support our Sponsor Splitting that gift, meal or trip? Settle up fast -- right over the Internet -- with the MoneyZap service, from Western Union. http://click.topica.com/6Wb1dhdKb1tdRUa/WesternUnion > --- Support our Sponsor > Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning > Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill > Assessment, or a FREE video. > http://click.topica.com/vob1dhdKb1tdQUa/SylvanLearning > > > > > (John T) Indonesia bombings disrupt Chrismas eve celebrations... that's what they said > on the morning news... > > I must admit, I wasn't aware of problems in Indonesia what's going on > there? Who's doing what to whom? Anyone know? > > Indonesia has been in turmoil for many years. However, with the Soeharto family at the helm, and the support of the military, any uprisngs or dissention was immediately suppressed. East Timor, previously annexed by Indonesia has had military peacekeepers present for over the past year. Arche (sp) has been seeking to gain self determination. With the Wahid govt, seen as not strong enough the miitary are not in total support. The church bombings which you have pointed to are another round of anti - christian fundamentalism. The muslim population are at the end of Ramadan which is coinciding with Chritian festivities. Another factor is the Chinese. If you remember, the purges in the late fifties / sixties they were Chinese. Another thought is that there could be military people who are behind the scenes. I am unsure of the exact reason for the latest bombings, but there has not just been one there has been about half a dozen. But because Aus is so close to Indonesia, and we have peacekeeping troops in East Timor, what is happening gets wider coverage. maree > > > > --- Support our Sponsor > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor- Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a different site matched to your interests every time you log onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now. http://click.topica.com/5zb1dhdKb1tdRUc/eTour ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Happy Holidays
--- Support our Sponsor Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill Assessment, or a FREE video. http://click.topica.com/vmb1dhdKb1tdRUa/SylvanLearning merry xmas maree > > > To those who celebrate: Merry Christmas and Happy Chanuka! > > Have a safe and happy holiday season! > > > > > > --- Support our Sponsor > REDUCE YOUR DEBT FOR FREE!! #1 Rated Method Of Reducing Debt > And Improving Your Credit Rating! This reputable NON-Profit can > assist you at absolutely NO COST! Click here for more information. > http://click.topica.com/OUb1dhdKb1tdQUc/e-debtconsolidation > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? Learn more about this exceptional offer by clicking here. http://click.topica.com/OTb1dhdKb1tdRUc/e-debtconsolidation ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} interesting perspective
--- Support Our Sponsor Dont miss the latest news in Consumer Electronics. Its all at the 2001 International CES! Registration is easy! Sign up now! http://click.topica.com/7Mb1dhdKb1tdRUb/ConsumerElectronic Last year, when the US was having severe fire problems, Australian, and other countries' fire fighters went to the US aid. Australia, supported the US in Vietnam, and was left to clean up. Although, the US goes to the aid of many countries, other countries across the globe do so also, maybe not to the same degree, but they are there.. maree This is out of a Canadian newspaper. There are some inaccuracies in it, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. Jeff > >> America: The Good Neighbor. > >> > >> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given > >> recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from > >> Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television > >> commentator. What follows is the full text of his > >> trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional > >> Record: > >> > >> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the > >> Americans as the most generous and possibly the > >> least appreciated people on all the earth. > >> > >> Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and > >> Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the > >> Americans who poured in billions of dollars and > >> forgave other billions in debts. None of these > >> countries is today paying even the interest on its > >> remaining debts to the United States. > >> > >> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it > >> was the Americans who propped it up, and their > >> reward was to be insulted and swindled on the > >> streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. > >> > >> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the > >> United States that hurries in to help. This spring, > >> 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. > >> Nobody helped. > >> > >> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped > >> billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now > >> newspapers in those countries are writing about the > >> decadent, warmongering Americans. > >> > >> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is > >> gloating over the erosion of the United States > >> dollar build its own airplane. Does any other > >> country in the world have a plane to equal the > >> Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the > >> Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do > >> all the International lines except Russia fly > >> American Planes? > >> > >> Why does no other land on earth even consider > >> putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about > >> Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk > >> about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. > >> > >> You talk about American technocracy, and you find > >> men on the moon - not once, but several times - and > >> safely home again. > >> > >> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put > >> theirs right in the store window for everybody to > >> look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued > >> and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most > >> of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are > >> getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to > >> spend here. > >> > >> When the railways of France, Germany and India were > >> breaking down through age, it was the Americans who > >> rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the > >> New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an > >> old caboose. Both are still broke. > >> > >> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced > >> to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name > >> me even one time when someone else raced to the > >> Americans in trouble? I don't think there was > >> outside help even during the San Francisco > >> earthquake. > >> > >> Our neighbors have faced
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
--- Support our Sponsor-
Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a
different site matched to your interests every time you log
onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now.
http://click.topica.com/5zb1dhdKb1tdRUa/eTour
what does the below have to do with the topic ? and haven't we read this
verbatum before ?
maree
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
> /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
> Special Holiday Offer for your friends & family!
> Give them the Gift of Free Long Distance calls using Tellme.
> Click for details:
> http://click.topica.com/6Zb1dhdKb1tdQUa/Tellme
> \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
>
> 20th century, a century of war
>
>
> George Anthony remembers the victims of a profitable business
>
> It is either morbidity or subdued anger, but the slaughter of the First
World
> War, with its 350 miles of trenches, from the Belgian coast to the Swiss
> border, has always had a fascination for me. Early on, the reading of
"Lions
> led by Donkeys", "In Flanders fields", "Goodbye to all that", "First day
of
> the Somme", seeing the play and then the film, "Oh, what a lovely war",
> visiting the Imperial war museum, and the first four lines of the Wilfred
> Owen poem, "Anthem for Doomed Youth",
> "What passing-bells for
> these who die as cattle?
> Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
> Only the stuttering rifles` rapid rattle,
> Can patter out their hasty orisons",
> has fed this fascination for years. And the Cenotaph in Whitehall with the
> Armistice commemoration there; for the establishment to shed crocodile
tears,
> every November 11th, has kept it in my mind and everybody else's since
that
> war ended 82 years ago.
> I suppose it was the sheer size and apparent senselessness of it that is
so
> overwhelming, even though it was so long ago. Perhaps that's why it is
still
> referred to as the Great War. A.J.P. Taylor, in one of his BBC television
> lectures, described it as war of attrition, saying, "That providing the
> French and British lost three and the Germans lost two, the Allies would
> win." No bows and arrows here, as at Crecy, Agincourt, and the Little Big
> Horn. No Waterloo, engaging a mere 140,000 professional soldiery, for only
> one day, leaving 62,000 dead. But a monstrous engagement, killing millions
in
> no time at all.
> There have been war's since of course, indeed the 20th century's main
feature
> has been war on a frequent and huge scale, fought with ever increasing
> inhumanity with ever increasingly sophisticated weapons.
> Beginning the century with the Boer War, followed by the Russo/Japanese
war,
> the Gulf war, the French Indo-China war, the Russian Civil war, the 14
> countries war of intervention against the Soviet Union, the Spanish Civil
> war, the Mexican civil war, the Spanish/American Cuba war, the Liberia
civil
> war, the Yemeni war, the Guatemalan war, the Nicaraguan war, the El
> Salvadoran war, the British Malayan war, the Kenya Mau Mau war, the
Vietnam
> war, the Six Day Israeli/Egypt war, the Nagorno/Karabakh war, the
> Bougainville/Papua New Guinea war, the Burma civil war, the Khmer
> Rouge/Cambodia war, the Angola/Unita war, the Nigerian/Biafra war, the
> N.A.T.O. bombing of Serbia, the Afghanistan wars, the Falklands war, the
> Sudan war, the Ethiopia/Eritrea war, the Japanese invasion of Manchuria,
the
> Chinese Red Army/Kuomintang war, the Sino/India war, the Rwanda/Burundi
civil
> war, the East Timor war of liberation, the Georgian civil war, the Guinea
> Bissau civil war, the Israel attack on South Lebanon, the Kashmir war of
> liberation, the Kosovo civil war, the Iran/Iraq war, the Chechnya civil
war,
> the Tajikistan civil war, the Turkish war against the Kurds, the Uganda
civil
> war, the Moluccas war of liberation, the Comoros civil war, the Turkish
> invasion of Cyprus, the Colombia liberation war, the Zapatista/Mexico
> liberation war, the Western Sahara liberation war, the Sierra Leone civil
> war, the Somalia civil war, the Sri Lanka/Tamil civil war and the Congo
war,
> making 56 qualifying as war. With another 26 "nascent international armed
> conflicts", have in their different ways, demonstrated the Clausewitz
dictum
> that "war is politics by other means". Attempts at conquest by one
military
> power over another to maintain its hegemony, instead of by diplomacy and
> political struggle.
> Young men and women, still
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
/=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Special Holiday Offer for your friends & family! Give them the Gift of Free Long Distance calls using Tellme. Click for details: http://click.topica.com/6Zb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Tellme \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ - Original Message - From: "CAROL L SEATON" > > Maree, > > Good question. "Was it them or the media? You must also remember with > the conglomeration and monopolization of media into the hands of few, > that they are dictating according to their profit margin who will be > heard and who won't". However, who would want a president that follows > the dictates of media? This idea is even more demoralizing. > can you say that the media doesnot manipulate what goes on in Congress or the Pres ? > It would be great if we all had time to read history and John Garcia's > book "Moral Society". He explains the corrupting nature of bureaucracy > as power tends to solidify in a few hands and pressures lead to immoral > decisions until the civilization falls. > Isn't that why there is representative government? Isn't that why there is freedom of speech, to help reduce the corruption of bureacracy? What about separation of powers? > Autocracy always works to reduce the number of decision makers. This is > more efficient, but it also atrophies the whole civilization. Democracy > works to include the largest number of decision makers, and this most > certainly is not efficient, but it is away of life, and rarely do we need > to be in a hurry to make decisions. why is it more efficient ? Surely the fact that decisions are reliant on the encumbent few means that it is less efficient, because they have to wait for the ulimate one to decide.. Hitler limited power, and his Generals (?) turned to him for decisions... > > In a time of emergency we want autocracy for rapid decision making, and > I think there is an effort to make us all believe everyday is an > emergency or a day away from all out war, to secure more and more power > in a few hands. I am afraid we haven't returned to peace time thinking > since the invention of air warfare. In times of peace, we can take the > time for everyone to give an opinion and discuss things until their is a > consensus on the best reasoning. Democracy is a way of life that > shouldn't be rushed. CS > Wafare was not an invention. Since the conception of time there has been a form of warfare.. One party dominating another... As for consensus and reasoning, wouldn't that lead to stagnation.. anarchy doesn't work, because there is a need for some person or group to be the guide. maree > --- Support our Sponsor > eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites > with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn > rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today! > http://click.topica.com/5Ab1dhdKb1tdQUc/eTour > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Support our Sponsor REDUCE YOUR DEBT FOR FREE!! #1 Rated Method Of Reducing Debt And Improving Your Credit Rating! This reputable NON-Profit can assist you at absolutely NO COST! Click here for more information. http://click.topica.com/OUb1dhdKb1tdRUc/e-debtconsolidation ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Make it a rule ....
--- Support our Sponsor Your friends live online, why not settle up with them online, too? Western Union® MoneyZap. http://click.topica.com/6Ub1dhdKb1tdRUa/WesternUnion - Original Message - From: "CAROL L SEATON" > > Thank you for the information on the Cuban missile crisis. > > I think there is one point of view if we look at the Soviet and US power > plays as a power game. In this case I would say putting missiles in Cuba > is kind of a dog scenting its territory. However, I remember the fear > during this tense time, and it was not pleasant. It may not have been pleasant, but the propaganda relating to the proposed fear of communism and an alliance between Russia and Cuba, was generated possibly moreso because the US, as other western countries need something to fear, so they have something to build on. Now, this may no be exactly true, but if you look at Hitler, who generated power through the fear of Jews and communism, and people who were not Ariam, it can be clearly demonstrated. Today, look at what is said about Saddham Hussein, even though he is a maniacle leader, it works both ways. The middle east don't want the west coming in and dictating terms, as the west fear the spread of communism, or anything that may undermine their capitalist plans. > But guess what? > > When we think of the ethics of what was going on; how right was it for us > to cause other people to feel the fear we felt? Didn't we start this > threatening behavior? Were we right to cause others fear? Why? Is this > how countries of the world "should" behave? Is this what we are proudly > the leader of?Has this kind of national focus changed our society and > how we interact with each other? "You don't know what you are > talking" verse "I do not agree, because". Moral majority and then non > Christians pushing back each other as far as they can push. Are there > connections? > This sort of focus has been going on for centuries. This concept that might is right has led to wars. the crusades / christianity against the uncivilised. The imperial colonisation of the globe by the moral Brits. The difference today is that due to globalisation, one country cannot just walk in and annex another, without the rest of the world questioning it. And will it change ? As long as society is driven by greed . no! maree > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Juniper Bank-2.9% intro APR, 100% access > Experience unrivaled Internet and wireless convenience > with friendly account reminders and online discounts. > Get connected to a whole new kind of credit card. > http://click.topica.com/5Eb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Juniper > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? Click now for more information about this FREE, LIMITED TIME OFFER. http://click.topica.com/OSb1dhdKb1tdRUc/edebtconsolidation ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
/=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Juniper Bank-2.9% intro APR, 100% access Experience unrivaled Internet and wireless convenience with friendly account reminders and online discounts. Get connected to a whole new kind of credit card. http://click.topica.com/5Eb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Juniper \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ - Original Message - From: "Troy Heagy> > >From: maree > >Some areas have far more that 5 candidates standing for election. Voters > >number the boxes in order of preference, they do not list candidates. > > > Yes, you're right. I forgot that voters just number the candidates, rather > than write in the name. > > So, based on your description, Australia uses a hand-counting system? > > definitely. We have thought about using the TAB (betting offices) because their system is AUs wide, but at this point hand counting. > > > > For example, my presidential ballot might read: > > > 1. Harry Browne (the best man for the job IMO) > > > 2. John McCain > > > 3. George Bush > > > 4. Al Gore > > > 5. Buchanan > > > > > > Obviously, Harry Browne won't win. But I don't feel like I've "wasted > >my > > > vote" by listing him. Even if Browne is rejected as unpopular, John > >McCain > > > becomes my #2 vote... then George Bush my #3 vote... and so on. > > > > >Maybe, maybe not... but I suppose it is a simple explanation. What it > >basically means is that those 19000 votes that were in didpute, and those > >votes that went to lesser candidates, by having a preferential system, they > >would have been passed on to other candidates. May have lessened the chaos, > >but then again... may not ! > > > Well, there's no such think as a perfect counting system. Any system has a > certain margin of error and hence there will always be disputes in close > elections. > most definitely > The reason I think an Australian Ballot is preferable is because it would > allow the U.S. to have a true multi-party system rather than a duopoly of > Democrats/Republicans. > > For example, I voted for the Libertarian party. That was basically a wasted > vote, because other Libertarian-minded persons are afraid that voting for > such small party will allow the Democrats to win (as happened in 1992 with > the Reform & Republican parties splitting the conservative vote). So, they > vote Republican instead. And my vote is wasted on a loser party. And the > Democrats/Republicans remain dominant. > > An Australian ballot eliminates the "wasted vote" problem. I can safely > vote for the Libertarian or Green or Reform parties. and yet still back > them up with a "safe" Republican vote to keep out the Democrat. that is true also, but in Aus we use statistics also, which allow parties to see what the populus is thinking, changing preferences, impact of new parties. So our preferntial system allows the major parties to see that if there are swings to lesser parties, there is a reason, and therefore the major parties have policy issues to address. People understand that no vote is a wasted vote. > > > >Please do, we are a caring and sharing nation, you know > >maree > > :) > > Troy maree > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > --- Support our Sponsor- > Make eTour.com your Web start page, and you'll see a > different site matched to your interests every time you log > onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now. > http://click.topica.com/5zb1dhdKb1tdQUc/eTour > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! http://click.topica.com/5Cb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Aria \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
--- Support our Sponsor Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill Assessment, or a FREE video. http://click.topica.com/vpb1dhdKb1tdRUa/SylvanLearning - Original Message - From: "CAROL L SEATON" < > maree, > > I would like to use the Australian ballot form, because I want to know > how people would vote if they didn't fear the worst choice for president > would win, if they gave their vote to a third party. Our present system > is creating a lie, because it is out of fear that so many people are > voting for a dominate party candidate instead of the person they believe > is best suited for office. > But in your system your lesser parties seem to only crop up at election time, whereas ours are there permanently. Basically, they act as a shield to ensure that the major parties don't run roughshod over all others. Some may argue that this has a tendency to generate stagnation, but i think that it has the capacity to ensure the interests of all are met. > Our present system has given so much power to the two parties, they can > abuse their power, as they did when they refused other candidates > meaningful freedom of speech during the nationally broadcast political > debates. This was such an abuse of power the last crumb of hope I had > that a major party provided an honorable candidate, was crumbled.CS Was it them or the media. You must also remember with the conglomeration and monopolisation of media into the hands of few, that they are dictating according to their profit margin who will be heard and who won't. maree > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > REDUCE YOUR DEBT FOR FREE!! #1 Rated Method Of Reducing Debt > And Improving Your Credit Rating! This reputable NON-Profit can > assist you at absolutely NO COST! Click here for more information. > http://click.topica.com/OUb1dhdKb1tdQUc/e-debtconsolidation > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Support our Sponsor FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? Click now for more information about this FREE, LIMITED TIME OFFER. http://click.topica.com/OSb1dhdKb1tdRUc/edebtconsolidation ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
--- Support our Sponsor Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill Assessment, or a FREE video. http://click.topica.com/vob1dhdKb1tdRUa/SylvanLearning From: "Huw Sandaver" > > Hey Maree, Just referring to the vote rigging scandal up here in QLD. Now > that is funny. I don't think any system is completely perfect, but > anything could be better than the US one.. > Please tell me you're not a Queenslander ! As for the vote rigging. Just so it is not totally confusing.. As I understand it, because of the preferntial system and because we have many and varied smaller parties. these parties negotiate as to which way prefernces will be directed. On the how to vote papers handed out by each party / candidate as people enter polling booths, they show how each candidate suggests their preferences go. It is up to the voter to decide to follow or choose their own... The vote rigging suggested that someone in the labor party paid for something in another party so they would have Labor listed as their no 2 preference. Is that the one you're talking about ? It does show imperfections, even more when we are only talking a few hundred dollars, and not the millions that transfer in the US. I wonder if they realise that we can run an election, campaign, voting, counting, etc,... in 6 - 8 weeks ? maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Juniper Bank-2.9% intro APR, 100% access Experience unrivaled Internet and wireless convenience with friendly account reminders and online discounts. Get connected to a whole new kind of credit card. http://click.topica.com/5Eb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Juniper \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Aussie Rules (and the American system)
--- Support our Sponsor Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill Assessment, or a FREE video. http://click.topica.com/vmb1dhdKb1tdRUa/SylvanLearning >(Tamar) Dear members, > > First, seasons greetings. > > Second, yeah, every system is better than the current > American one, and Im saying that as an outside > observer. > No opposition here > I am not referring to the Electoral College (although > personally I think its an outdated system: the reason > for this system was in 18th and 19th century, when > people voted "uninformed". It strikes the rest of the > world as pretty weird that Al Gore took the popular > vote, and George Bush won by a margin of few hundreds > Floridans). > And the Electoral College don't have to even follow the breakdown / percentages of votes across each state. Therefore, the votes are not representative of how the people voted. > I am not even referring to the voting machines; > pregnant chads, etc. (At least I learned a new word - > I always thought Chad to be one of the poorest > countries in Africa). > me too... > I am talking about voter registration. I realise that > the solution of letting "everybody" vote is not easy > and can open a can of worms and rigged votes. However, > Americans should question this system, if only 50% of > the voters turned up (by the way, speaking of Aussie > Rules - they have mandatory voting). The ones who > don't registrate: the poor, the minorities, and the > young (mostly college students who live outside their > home state). Isn't it a bit of a shame? I don't know > of any other democracy where people don't care who > their leader will be. > We donot have mandatory voting. We have compulsory enrolment and compulsory attendance. Through referendum years ago the people voted for it. A choice that was made and has been accepted. We do have people who choose to leave the ballot blank, we also have thos ewho would rather pay a $20 - $100 fine for not voting... > In any case, Maree sees the problems with Australian > system (the system is called syngle transferrable > vote), becamse she lives there, but comparing it to > the US, or many other countries, it is better. > There is no perfect system, and because of the diversity across the globe, each ones sees the good and bad of their own, depending on how it affects them. One thing that I did hear on the news, was that, I don't know whether it was from the Bore or Gush camp, but they hoped that the people of the US would now realise that EVERY vote counts.. how true that is !!! > I won't talk about the system here, because it's pure > crap (or am I forbidden to use this language?) - > evidently we can't keep a government more than a year > or so. > > Tamar > You can say that. Our fed govt has a maximum of 3 years, but generally they go to the polls about 2 years. The other thing I found confusing about the US system for a federal election was that each state handled their own state, and that their was no continuity. Here if it is a federal election it is run by that authority, not by each state. Therefore there is uniformity in the ballot. maree > > = > Visit http://www.political-tips.com - sign up for the FREE newsletter, where you can find information and links in politics and activism Visit our sponsor http://www.goingplatinum.com/member/tamrur and join to make money while surfing!!! > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/49b1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt paym
Re: {W&P} Make it a rule ....
Title: RE: {W&P} Make it a rule
--- Support our Sponsor
Build your family tree for free this holiday season. Ancestry.com
is offering free access to the entire site until Dec 21, 2000.
Come sign up today for totally free access, no credit card required.
http://click.topica.com/50b1dhdKb1tdRUb/MyFamily_com
(CS) Why would the USSR attack the
United Sates?
(JJ) I'm sure there are several reasons. The most
basic is that they thought we threatened their interests, just as we
thought they threatened ours. The fact that we almost went to war
several times during that period illustrates my point.
(maree) While, I believe that
the USSR was seen as a threat to western democracy, it was not going to
invade the US. They aimed at spreading communism across the globe, but
also argued
I agree. I was thinking attacking US interests
rather than US soil. However, they were going to put nuclear missiles in
Cuba. Would that not be viewed as a threat to US
territory?
I was reading
some stuff on the Cuban missile crisis, and the CiA, and Pres, had information
that Krushchev (?) while, proposing that he was going to do this, was unable
to do so. He was playing a game, which he lost. And while some may argue the
USA lost because they moved missiles from Turkey, it was the demise of
Krushchev's reformation of USSR. Please accept that my knowledge on this is
extremely limited.
maree
--- Support our Sponsor
eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites
with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn
rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today!
http://click.topica.com/Qmb1dhdKb1tdQUd/eTour
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
/=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for
complete pricing information and important terms and conditions,
please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa!
http://click.topica.com/5Cb1dhdKb1tdRUd/Aria
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} message standards
--- Support our Sponsor Finally Long Distance Calling Breaks the 5¢/minute Barrier Interstate Rate is 3.95¢ per minute via Nationwide 10-10 # No Monthly Fee - No Time Restrictions - No Call Length Min http://click.topica.com/ZMb1dhdKb1tdRUa/SavOnCalling > > I will not read any responses to what I write that begin with an attack > on my character or what I know. If you want me to read your opinion, you > will be as respectful of me as you want me to be respectful of you. CS To what and whom are you responding ? Could you please leave part of the message, or place your comment above the message ? As I delete messages as I read them, it is hard to retain continuity, if there is no indication as to what you are responding to. thankyou respectfully maree :-) > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Juniper Bank-2.9% intro APR, 100% access > Experience unrivaled Internet and wireless convenience > with friendly account reminders and online discounts. > Get connected to a whole new kind of credit card. > http://click.topica.com/3Kb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Juniper > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor- Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a different site matched to your interests every time you log onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now. http://click.topica.com/5zb1dhdKb1tdRUc/eTour ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
well, why don't you tell us what you think, then..
> I have tried using pencil, but it's tough to get off the screen, and no
one
> seems to respond to my queries
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:36 PM
> Subject: Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
>
>
> > What is wrong with pencil and paper?
> >
> > ___
> > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
> > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
> > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
> >
> > ___
> > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
> > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
> >
>
>
>
> ___
> To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
> Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
> referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
>
> ___
> T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
> Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
>
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} message standards
> maree, > >(CS) I am glad to have another chance to respond to the issue of messages that > may lack good communication skills. This is may be a pain in the neck to > everyone, but when we are tolerant of people who lack good communication > skills, there is a chance these people's skills will improve, and how > much does it cost us to be considerate and give people that chance? > rules to live by: > Carol, you are on a list that requires, or is based on ideas about politics, war, etc communicating your ideas is what is at that base, not consideration, or any other pretention... > (CS)1. We are respectful to everyone because we are respectful people. > 2. We act with dignity and protect the dignity of others. > 3. We act with integrity. > where are we ? in a retirement village ? > When we live by these rules, we can do far more good then when we > criticize, demand and reject others. These rules are not how the > military does things and the difference is a serious political issue. > CS > I don't know about your experience with military, but if you're going to start on about radiation and electro magnetics Please don't my delete button is wearing out... maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
> I would very much like the United States to adopt the Australian Ballot. > CS > Please explain why ? maree > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/3Lb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Australian Ballot
- Original Message - From: "Troy Heagy > >From: maree > > > Some have suggested we should do the same here. That way, people would > >have > > > 5 votes and not be afraid to vote for smaller parties. > > > > > > Troy > > > > >How do you work out they get 5 votes ? > >maree > > > > The Australian ballots I've seen have 5 lines. You list the candidates you > like, best to worst. That's basically 5 votes... unless of course, you > choose to leave some lines blank. > Well, you haven't seen many Aus ballots, Have you ? We have candidates listed in order, that they are drawn. That is, candidates names are placed in containers, of the same size and drawn out, to see in what order they are listed.. similar to alottery, in Commonwealth elections they actually, use table tennis balls with numbers. Therefore, the first person to nominate has the first ball drawn out, etc.. then all the numbers corespond to a candidate.. they are then redraw to determine ballot position. Some areas have far more that 5 candidates standing for election. Voters number the boxes in order of preference, they do not list candidates. > For example, my presidential ballot might read: > 1. Harry Browne (the best man for the job IMO) > 2. John McCain > 3. George Bush > 4. Al Gore > 5. Buchanan > > Obviously, Harry Browne won't win. But I don't feel like I've "wasted my > vote" by listing him. Even if Browne is rejected as unpopular, John McCain > becomes my #2 vote... then George Bush my #3 vote... and so on. > Maybe, maybe not... but I suppose it is a simple explanation. What it basically means is that those 19000 votes that were in didpute, and those votes that went to lesser candidates, by having a preferential system, they would have been passed on to other candidates. May have lessened the chaos, but then again... may not ! > > The U.S. has absorbed ideas from all around the world... Roman laws, British > courts, German superhighways, Chinese cuisine... perhaps it's time to borrow > our voting system from the Australians? > > Troy > Please do, we are a caring and sharing nation, you know maree > _ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/3Lb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
- Original Message - From: "Huw Sandaver > > On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, maree wrote: > > > Extremely. In the Us you vote if you want. Punch a hole for who you want. > > Don't need a clear majority... And wait for it... you're not even voting for > > Pres... Each State has electors, appointed by legislators, and they elect > > the Pres... > > maree > > we just resort to vote rigging..hey its probably faster in the long run ;) Is that what you call it ? some others have referred to it as the best form of democracy in the western world... But they don't accept that the rest of the world is laughing, not with them but at the US... maree > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/3Lb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! http://click.topica.com/3Lb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Aria \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Make it a rule ....
Title: RE: {W&P} Make it a rule
--- Support our Sponsor
eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites
with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn
rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today!
http://click.topica.com/Qmb1dhdKb1tdRUb/eTour
> Why would the USSR attack the United Sates?
(JJ) I'm sure there are several reasons. The most basic
is that they thought we threatened their interests, just as we thought they
threatened ours. The fact that we almost went to war several times
during that period illustrates my point.
While, I believe that the USSR was seen as a threat to
western democracy, it was not going to invade the US. They aimed at spreading
communism across the globe, but also argued that it would be an international
revolution agaisnt capitalism. On its own Russia would be unable to take on
capitalism and the US, they new it and so did the US. Stalin also reconciled
that cmmunism was not going to become an international form of sosiety. He
realised that it was USSR against the rest, so aimed at protection and
military defense, not attack.
(JJ) Are you suggesting that Russia took no actions that could
unequivocally be viewed as threatening to the US--even to sovereign US
soil?
I would not suggest that either. But the game was who
could out manoeuvre whom, and both of them knew the others capability. try
recent released CIA docs.
maree___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref6357
referrer name john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
/=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for
complete pricing information and important terms and conditions,
please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa!
http://click.topica.com/3Lb1dhdKb1tdRUd/Aria
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
Title: RE: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
--- Support our Sponsor-
Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a
different site matched to your interests every time you log
onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now.
http://click.topica.com/Qnb1dhdKb1tdRUb/eTour
--- Support our Sponsor
Does your child struggle in school? Discover Sylvan Learning
Centers and get $100 off enrollment, $25 off a Skill
Assessment, or a FREE video.
http://click.topica.com/vpb1dhdKb1tdQUb/SylvanLearning
> ... EXTREME RIGHT WINGER BUCKLEY
...THE RADICAL RIGHT WERE VERY HAPPY
Here's where I stopped reading. Bias is not
convincing.
Could we get a ruling on whether or not posting articles with
no original thought attached should be allowed to continue?
Well, you went further than I, All the capitals were
beyond me...
maree
--- Support our Sponsor
Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for
complete pricing information and important terms and conditions,
please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa!
http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUd/Aria
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref6357
referrer name john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
/=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY
FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments?
Click now for more information about this FREE, LIMITED TIME OFFER.
http://click.topica.com/3Mb1dhdKb1tdRUd/edebtconsolidation
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
--- Support our Sponsor eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today! http://click.topica.com/Qmb1dhdKb1tdRUa/eTour > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, John T wrote: > > > I wonder what the results would be if we had a complete re-election process? > > If all the votes were tossed out and a new election was held? How many > > Bush/Gore supporters would change sides? I'm sure there are die-hard > > supporters on both sides but there have to be quite a few who are fed up with > > all this BS! > > I'm a bit late to this party, but maybe the people who didn't vote the > first time round might be inclined to. Here in Australia we have > preferential voting where you have to list in order who you want, and if > no one ends up with a clear majority your second preferences get counted > and so on. Different there? > Extremely. In the Us you vote if you want. Punch a hole for who you want. Don't need a clear majority... And wait for it... you're not even voting for Pres... Each State has electors, appointed by legislators, and they elect the Pres... maree > --- Support our Sponsor > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > /=-=-=-=-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Juniper Bank-2.9% intro APR, 100% access Experience unrivaled Internet and wireless convenience with friendly account reminders and online discounts. Get connected to a whole new kind of credit card. http://click.topica.com/3Kb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Juniper \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
--- Support our Sponsor- Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a different site matched to your interests every time you log onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now. http://click.topica.com/Qnb1dhdKb1tdRUa/eTour > > > Some have suggested we should do the same here. That way, people would have > 5 votes and not be afraid to vote for smaller parties. > > Troy > How do you work out they get 5 votes ? maree > _ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Sponsor's Message -- FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? Click now for more information about this FREE, LIMITED TIME OFFER. http://click.topica.com/OSb1dhdKb1tdRUc/edebtconsolidation ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} The Election Saga Continues..
--- Support our Sponsor eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today! http://click.topica.com/Qmb1dhdKb1tdRUa/eTour > Jeff, > > I think we call it freedom of speech.CS > OK, what about a point of view rather than other people's ? After all isn't that what this forum is ? maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Support our Sponsor Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Aria ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Make it a rule ....
From: "CAROL L SEATON" > John, > > I wish those who chose to war, would lead the soldiers as they did long > ago. At the front with their own lives on the line. > > It is my understanding Vietnam was a test of a new military strategy, > where the military decisions were made by those safe in the United > States. I think the military action was welcomed as a good test for our > developing military technology, because obviously the country was not a > threat to us. welcomed by whom ? > For that matter, the threat of the USSR was exaggerated, > and justified the 1958 National Defense Education Act, that proceeded > social upheaval, and explosion of bad parents and a national youth > crisis, and Bush's announcement that we the New World Order. > Why was it exaggerated ? Or are you referring to propaganda which generated hatred and fear of Communism ? The USSR was a threat because it touted Communistic tendencies, even though it was not truely a communist state. But, I don't see how you can relate that to problems of bad parenting and education > I am not sure, but I think we greatly underestimated the effect of air > warfare on our society and the world.Our present technology and the > resources of the United States were the essential elements to the New > World Order, and we have been preparing our young to serve it, same as > was done in Germany, following the Prussian take over. The citizens have > no control over their military forces, because we can be in and out of > war, long before a protest can be mobilized, and we sure aren't deciding > who gets, how much of our military technology. In fact how many know we > granted arms to the Mid East while Reagan was in office. At the same > time we slashed domestic budgets. CS > We're talking here about the midst of the Cold war, aren't we ? And aren't we also talking about financing the US resources, which you suggest the rest of the world relies on ? And as for US domestic spending, you want more spending, pay higher taxes.. Or would you prefer to be under threat, without the means of defense. It is true to say that the US is the major player in defending sovereignty across the globe... But they are NOT alone. And the US chose that position of power, and wants respect for that position, therefore, to maintain that, money has to come from somewhere. MAybe you find this a bit sarcastic, but the reality is that the govts in office are elected by the people, those who choose to vote of course. Therefore, the people, while not directly, but indirectly predicate where money goes.. If not, why was Reagan or Clinton returned to office ? maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Khadafi - Libya
Title: RE: {W&P} Khadafi - Libya
certainly is, and totally agree,maree
> Zionism's murderous legacy
usually i just delete long tirades with no independent thought
from the poster. isn't this in the rules somewhere? --- Support our Sponsor-
Make eTour.com your Web start page, and you’ll see a
different site matched to your interests every time you log
onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now.
http://click.topica.com/Qnb1dhdKb1tdQUd/eTour
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref6357
referrer name john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Khadifi's comments (however you want to spell it)
> > (John T) Personally, I think they should have a re-vote... but I understand that > option isn't available :( > > Why isn't available ? If what has been reported is correct, and according to Florida law the holes have to be on one side of the ballot, and some were on the other, then surely the ballot paper was not legitimate.. Therefore, there is justification for a revote.. maree > > > > --- Support our Sponsor > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} all of it
oduce thinking well eqipped persons who have enveloped a sense of pride and purpose that otherwise may be wasted. It has the capacity to unite other countries against oppressive nations who are against the fundamental freedoms which predecessors fought to bring to the west. Surely, in the western world the military is beneficial. We don't necessarily have to go back to the mongols or the warlords of ancient times. And really in retrospect would they be considered a military force, or just an invading force... maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Aria ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} SOA story
You can only get in with a social security number,
And not being a US citizen, this creates a slight problem
maree
- Original Message -
From:
Jackson Jeffrey W 1stLt AAC/INA
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 6:49
AM
Subject: {W&P} SOA story
--- Support our Sponsor
DEEP DISCOUNTS ON TRAVEL! Fares not advertised to the public
from thousands of travel agents. Pennies on the dollar for
US & international air, vacations, cruises, hotels, more.
http://click.topica.com/TXb1dhdKb1tdQUb/Imandi
Here's a short
summary of the SOA protest from the local Columbus, GA,
paper.
http://ebird.dtic.mil/Nov2000/e20001120marching.htm
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
___
To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email
Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357
referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works!
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} all of it
Title: all of it You've never answered my question--do militaries offer ANY benefit to the world? Jeff Yes, they do, They hav the capacity to harness something that a lot of people don't even come close to. National spirit!! They also tend to be th eprotectors, In this instance I am NOT referring to Sth American forces Furthermore, it may be argued that if not for the military there would be chaos, But on the other hand you can look to the detrimental affects, as in totalitarian, dictatorships, etc... They are the ones who demonstrate the abuses of power. Look to the forces who went into WWI and WWII. Some may consider the military as men/women playing war games, But it is more than that. They develop strategies, forces that support people in times of disaster. I know that here the defense forces wre used in times of flood, cyclones, earthquakes, rescues, etc.. because they have a force maintained to support the community as well as defense. In looking at what the military is good for, ALL issues have to be addressed, such as the development of pride in oneself's own abilities, the temawork and bonds developed through training. You cannot just look at the detracting events. The military defends the ideas that western democracy is based on, and without them, and the families who gave their lives for freedom and justice, NOT just those who abuse power. Because, wihtout the military there would be more abuses of power, and there would be generations growing up without the benefit of the experience that being involved in military would teach them. maree --- Support our Sponsor Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUd/Aria ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref6357 referrer name john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} (re:) School of the Americas
> Maree told us that the Latin American culture is > "violent" and that the School of Americas only trained > people, not knowing what they'll do with that training > later. > "Isn't part of the reality of the military, that you may be trained/educated in one way, but when they return to their homeland, they have to conform to what their superiors want. Therefore, they may be trained in US but conform to South American standards" maree Well, you certainly have put a different slant on what I said. I was responding to a post that stated that these military persons were trained in the US to torture and inflict pain deliberately on others. That I have a problem with. What I do however, believe is that it doesn't matter how well trained some one is when they are under the control of their commanding officers they obey. I don't eve suggest that the US unknowingly trains these men. But what I did suggest was that when they go home, they live by the rules set down at home.. Not US. Unless you are now suggesting that the US actually stands with these soldiers and makes them torture people. > I hope she's naiive and not intentionaly trying to > mislead the readers of these posts. The people who > trained these officers knew exactly what Latin > American militaries do, and what are their "counter > insurgency" tactics. It was found out, that the CIA > knew about the plan to murder a Chilean ex-diplomat > (one of Allende's people) and his American secretary, > Ronnie Buffett, but done nothing. The CIA encouraged > revolutions (including Pinochet's). The government > knows exactly what these militaries are up to. I > suspect, that if the American administration and > military really cared about it, they would have > demanded those countries to have a better human rights > portfolio. > > Tamar Nobody argues that they didn't know what was going on. But in reality change has to begin somewhere. Whether you believe it or not! Otherwise we still be living in feudal societies. The reality is that the US may train soldiers, bit to train them in methods of torture.. I think NOT! I don't think they would get away with that much. Do you really? If you do, you are suggesting that ALL govts of the would bow and scrape to the US. That doesn't say much for anyone, now does it? maree > > = > Visit http://www.political-tips.com - sign up for the FREE newsletter, where you can find information and links in politics and activism Visit our sponsor http://www.goingplatinum.com/member/tamrurand join to make money while surfing!!! > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! > http://calendar.yahoo.com/ > > --- Support our Sponsor > Imagine a credit card with a 0% introductory APR on purchases (for > complete pricing information and important terms and conditions, > please click on the link below). Apply now for an Aria Visa! > http://click.topica.com/Ijb1dhdKb1tdQUc/Aria > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} School of Americas
Title: School of Americas --- Support Our Sponsor Catch the latest Moody Blues concert on payforview.com for only $2.95 from 11-14 to 11-19! Chat with Moody fans, play music trivia and read band bios/facts. Don't miss it! http://click.topica.com/SAb1dhdKb1tdRUb/MoodyBlues Isn't part of the reality of the military, that you may be trained/educated in one way, but when they return to their homeland, they have to conform to what their superiors want. Therefore, they may be trained in US but conform to South American standards maree I hope you plan get both sides of the story before you make a judgement. First, the SOA does not espouse or advocate torture, execution and assassination. It's mentioned in the text because it's a reality in the region. But it says this technique does not achieve any long-term goal, and is detrimental to the military and to the regime in charge. Second, Latin America has historically been a very violent region as far as government and revolutions are concerned. That "tradition" cannot be taken from individuals in the few months they're at Ft Benning. If you grow up violent, there's a good chance you'll stay that way. SOA tries to forge/improve multilateral ties. Sometimes individuals go there, learn the tactics, and apply them incorrectly when they return. Can you blame an individual's actions on a school they went to for a few months (about 10, but I don't recall for sure). That's like saying your opinions today are completely the result of your 10th grade teacher. That's like blaming Harvard for Kadaffi. (I think it was Harvard--it was some Ivy League school. Look it up if you're interested.) Perhaps they should do a better job screening the candidates? That's possible, but very difficult because of international relations are concerned. The country's military decides which officers to send--and they usually send whoever graduated first from their academy. They have a very strict tanda system in most LA countries. First, the Army would need the money to do those background checks. Second, we'd have a very difficult time forcing our system down their throats. I heard a story at the Special Ops School one time--a country nominated the first in its class to come to the SOS at Hurlburt Fld, but he didn't speak English well enough to complete the class, so we said he couldn't come. In America, that honor (and it's an honor and a career boon for many of these officers) would probably have gone to the second in the class. But that would have embarassed the first graduate, so no one went. What a waste of an opportunity, right? That how we view it, anyway. To them, the honor of their first graduate is more important than the opportunity. So in many cases our choice is between contact or no contact--not between which contact we'll make. The SOA teaches nations how to professionalize their armies. They lead by example, and in doing so try to decrease the number of human rights violations made by these armies. Things like a professional NCO corps, which is VERY important to a professional army and many of these countries lack. This also helps decrease the social stratification within the military, which leads to more fair punishments and few human rights violations. Things like proper military justice rather than summary executions. Third, they bring together members of all nation in Latin America. They learn together, they live together. Some of the officers have had little or no contact with the other nations, so this deepens their understanding of their neighbors. The SOA tries to foster teamwork among different nations' militaries. Sometimes officers from rival countries will not talk to each other; sometimes they overcome their prejudice and become friends. Either way, the attempt to bring nations together and teach them how to professionalize--together--only lends stability to the region. Perhaps most importantly, the SOA teaches that it's entirely natural for the military to be subjugated to and take orders from a civilian government. That's not the way many militaries view their role in society, although it's becoming that way partly through the efforts of programs like the SOA at Ft Benning, the USAFSOS at Hurlburt, and the Inter-American Air Force Academy in San Antonio. That works wonders in increasing stability, which will improve the economy through foreign investment and make life better for the entire country. A more stable, prosperous country leads to less conflict, which in turn may mean fewer human rights violation
Re: {W&P} mil, tech and Colombia
--- Support our Sponsor LOWEST AIRFARE IN THE SKY - Deep discounts: cruises, hotels, international travel, vacations, cars. Connect to thousands of travel agents competing for your business. Hot NEW site! http://click.topica.com/RKb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Imandi they seem to envelop a different spirit, that of protection and defense of their ideals, Above was part of the wording that I used, and I didn't place gender on it either, You seem to have romanticised the idea of war with some sex God analagy. I don't, I also don't have this obsession or derive passion from blood thirsty tyrants. I don't find your response to warriors as a mobilising force. Personally, I probably have a little idealism left in me, where I believe that war is a last resort, and nobody wants their sons OR daughters, Husbands OR wives to be killed. BUT, the concept of war today, is more defensive mechanism, than that of which you speak. They were territorial dominations. As for Yugoslavia, the war there was teritorial and cultural and a lot of other things, but it has not been glorified, if anything, it has faced condemnation. The gulf war, again faced condemnation, it was not glorified, so I don't see the mobilising affect that you relate. I don't see Israel / Palestine conflict as mobilsing nations, if anything it is bringing nations across the globe to negotiations for peace. I suppose that it why I see the military in a defensive capacity, rather than the glorified excitement that you perceive. I think that a number of veterans or even patriots would feel offended by your view that wars have been fought for nothing. I don't see WWII as being fought for nothing. And while I have a great problem with Vietnam, there was a principle, freedom.. the foundation of lib / dem societies.. the principle which allows you or I to say what we feel. That principle alone, while not total justification, or legitimation for war, was the underlying factor which propelled govt and military. They were attempting to defend freedom, the only problem was, that where they were defending it, it didn't want them.. The reality, as I see it, is that the military are willing to put their life on the line for their beliefs, while a number of others are willing to put other's lives on the line for THEIR beliefs. maree From: "CAROL lSEATPL SEATON" > As woman I think those Roman soldiers are very sexy. Genghis Khan and > Attila the Hun excite my blood too. The huge terra cotta army buried in > China long ago, is so impressive. And my heart quickens when I read of > Greek and Celtic warriors. I wonder, if women didn't have such a > response to warriors, would it be so easy to mobilize nations to war? > > And I am woman, the daughter, wife and mother. Women have a history of > opposing wars as well as a history of fighting wars. What we don't talk > about when we speak of war, is the women and children and their heroism. > I was watching when we saw the Vietnam conflict live on TV and a mother > ran down the road with her baby in her arms. The camera man did a close > up on the baby's tiny limp hand. Please, do not tell me what men are > doing is protecting! In spirit I am that woman running with her baby in > her arms. > I would rather give my life to defend my son, than send him to war. > Please, do not tell this way of handling human differences is protecting! > > We don't speak much of the civilizations that win wars only to fall a > short time later. Except for George Bush, we don't usually brag about > being what we fought against, but George Bush was right. We are the New > World Order, and that means we have fought every war for nothing. It was > all tragic insanity. > > Athena, is my goddess and she carries the Sword of Justice. If men think > they are protecting something when they go to war, let them name it and > let us explore the reality. I think we might find, a similarity between > warriors and two bucks fighting over a doe. > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor- Make eTour.com your Web start page, and youll see a different site matched to your interests every time you log onto the Web! Sign up for your free membership now. http://click.topica.com/Qnb1dhdKb1tdRUc/eTour
Re: {W&P} mil, tech and Colombia
--- Support our Sponsor Sponsored by VeriSign - The Internet Trust Company What all your customers want: secure online shopping. Get VeriSign's Secure Site Seal and 128-bit SSL encryption on your site! FREE Guide! http://click.topica.com/Pgb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Verisign From: "CAROL lSEATPL SEATON" > > Maree- I think you are right about the world going on with all its > imperfections. If life weren't a challenge, who want to play the game? The challenge is the reason for the game, and if life weren't a chellenge, who would want to live it, let alone challenge it or attempt to understand, or find ways to enhance it. > I just to play it better when I think of the ideals and values and chance > that someday we may agree to disagree, and be nice to each other just the > same. The military person is apt to have another dream for how we play > the game. We all get to play, right? > While the military person is there, i think this perception that they are only there as a means of war (if I misunderstood-sorry) is not totally correct. To me, and listening (reading) JSR, JJ and others who have military experience etc... they seem to envelop a different spirit, that of protection and defense of their ideals, hard to explain but it is different than being able to sit and discuss problems, Anyway, agree to disagree, with most on this list, but it is fun stirring the pot. > Do your realize in heaven there would be no great movies or novels, > because when things are prefect there is nothing for a good story. But > if heaven is like the Holy Land, we will continue to have something to > talk about. > When I go, it will be the other place, I hear its more fun down there maree (LOL) > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} mil, tech and Colombia
--- Support our Sponsor OrderBox - Shop anywhere for books (and everything else) Pay your price or less. Guaranteed! Get a $100.00 CREDIT! http://click.topica.com/Qpb1dhdKb1tdRUa/OrderMarket I like your grandmothers three ways to live, as for the American Declaration of Independence.. ideally this is how the world shoud be, but realistically, its not going to happen. We only have to look at this list, heated antagonistic discussions, nationalistic views that are perceived differently by others. While there are countries out there that practice human rights abuses, and while there are people out there who believe that the only way is their way world peace and govt are not going to happen. The UN is an idealist entity that upholds sovereignty and humans rights, bu without the ultimate determinant=force, it has no capacity to ensure security or safety, or uphold any life or freedom maree > > Maree wrote: "The UN recognizes sovereignty, not indigenous peoples > separately. If they > were to recognize ALL the indigenous races, that have been encapsulated > by > capitalist pretensions, then New York would have a bigger problem (LOL > _Phebe). > Seriously, we are trying to address reconciliation issues, the problem is > that there are so many, and each person has a different depth of trauma > associated with their life. Also, is this idea of social conformity, if > ALL > peoples are prompted to take on their own evolution, there would be > greater > problems.[ A bit of Anarchy !]" > > Let's see the Declaration of Independence for the United States says- > "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal, > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, > that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". I > think we have a hard time living up to the ideal of this statement, and I > think if we more concerned about anarchy than the ideal of unalienable > rights, liberty might be jeopardized? Not just someone else's but our > own. > > What is this idea of social conformity? Seriously, has someone > determined the model we should conform to, and if so how did this someone > get that right? Honestly, I am confused. My grandmother lived by these > three values: > 1. We treat everyone with respect, because we are respectful people. It > matters not if the other is a bum or the major, because it isn't the > other who determines our behavior. > 2. We act with dignity and protect the dignity of others. For example > when a quest in someone else's home (territory) one should do as the host > does. The book titled "Ugly American" said what made Americans ugly is > the attitude that they had unquestioned right to set the standards by > which everyone should live. The relationship between respect and dignity > is too close to divide. > 3. We do everything with integrity which means going beyond basic > morality of don't lie, steal, cheat, to being honorable. > This is talking human relationships, not conforming or imposing an order > to prevent anarchy. It is about controlling our own behavior to create > pleasurable human relationships. No effort to make and enforce laws can > do human beings living by these values can do, and when everyone lives by > these values, liberty is protected, because then there is not need for an > authority above the people. > > I may be too idealistic, but I don't think we will ever have world peace > without the values of my grandmothers generation. Can the United Nations > promote human beings around the world to live with such values, and to > stay out of each others backyards unless they are invited quest, and when > a quest submit to the host's customs and values? Good manners can do > what written agreements and military might can't do. And the nation that > does the most to accommodate aborigines, is the most civilized and > should stand in the highest global esteem, as an example to others. In > contrast the trouble in the Holy Lands is a screaming example of how not > to behave. What problem could come out of allowing people to follow > their own evolution, could be worse than what happens when people of > different religions are intolerant of each other? > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
Re: {W&P} Countries..
--- Support our Sponsor OrderBox - Save 70% at Amazon, Barnes&Noble and Borders Get a $100.00 CREDIT! http://click.topica.com/Qrb1dhdKb1tdRUa/OrderMarket I suppose the reality is that while military spending is important, education is more important. If not for education, we would not be able to have negotiations, conversations, discussions.. we would rely on bombing campaigns.. but then again, without education, how would the atomic and nuclear weapons have been made / Our system is not perfect, but I know that my children have the oppoortunity to furhter their education, if they choose. And in reality that is where our future lies maree > > Thanks Maree, > > I had hear in Aus, it is much easier to get an education, and wanted > everyone to know, so we could build consciousness of our education > choices, and improve the education decisions in places like the United > States where there is a huge gap between the poor and rich, and education > is so important to an individuals earning potential, and so costly! We > are far from assuring the equal opportunity that we think makes our > democracy so good. > > If our countries made education the priority over military spending, > what kind of world do you think this would be? > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} mil, tech and Colombia
--- Support our Sponsor OrderBox - Shop anywhere for books (and everything else) Pay your price or less. Guaranteed! Get a $100.00 CREDIT! http://click.topica.com/Qpb1dhdKb1tdRUa/OrderMarket From: "CAROL lSEATPL SEATON" > > > What is the United Nations for, and how should the millions of aborigines > around the world who do not want to be swallowed up by our capitalist > systems and values be represented in the UN? > The UN recognises sovereignty, not indigenous peoples separately. If they were to recognise ALL the indigenous races, that have been encapsulated by capitalist pretentions, then New YOrk would have a bigger problem (LOL _Phebe). Seriously, we are trying to address reconciliation issues, the problem is that there are so many, and each person has a different depth of trauma associated with their life. Also, is this idea of social conformity, if ALL peoples are prompted to take on their own evolution, there would be greater problems.[ A bit of Anarchy !] At present, with the land cases, land that has been returned to Aboriginal groups, means that if there are mining leases or pastoral leases on those lands then they are included in negotiations. There are funds set up, through taxation, provision of money for purchasing of specific lands for ABoriginies. As I have said before, a number have returned to the outback and to areas in Northern Western Australia, they have their own medical, education, etc... tribal law is accepted, providing there it doesn't contravene Aus law. We have come along way, and the difference is that WE want the reconciliation process to succeed, many other countries don't. And the UN recognises sovereignty, and will not undermine that, unless it has to.(?).. Yugoslavia, maree > --- Sponsor's Message -- > FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY > FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? > Learn more about this exceptional offer by clicking here. > http://click.topica.com/OTb1dhdKb1tdQUc/e-debtconsolidation > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Countries..
--- Support our Sponsor Sponsored by VeriSign - The Internet Trust Company What all your customers want: secure online shopping. Get VeriSign's Secure Site Seal and 128-bit SSL encryption on your site! FREE Guide! http://click.topica.com/Pgb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Verisign > Hi Nick, > > I have heard students around the world pay much less for their college > educations than students in the United States have to pay for their > college educations. I would like to raise awareness of differences in > college cost. Would you mind telling us what is the adverage cost annual > cost of a college education in New Zealand? > In Aus, we have Higher Education Contributions (HECS), these range from hundreds (TAFE - technichal and further education Colleges) up to about $5000 p.a. for Engineering, medicine, law courses at uni. Not all are up front, they are means teasted and you pay back when your income reaches a certain level. Pay back through taxation (6%?). And while, our taxation levels may be higher, all who want the opportunity to furhter their education have access, and when they earn an income, they pay back, Students are also entitled (means tested) to Austudy, similar to unemployment benefits, but for full time students. maree > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Support our Sponsor eTour is your personal web tour guide, matching the best sites with your interests. eTour is free and easy, and you can earn rewards discovering great new sites. Visit today! http://click.topica.com/Qmb1dhdKb1tdRUc/eTour ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Oppose Attempts to Restrict RU 486!
--- Support our Sponsor Individual.com is the #1 site for FREE personalized Internet news. Every day we deliver just the news YOU prefer. Get your daily dose free! http://click.topica.com/Imb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Individual I disagree, I believe that abortion should be available as a legal and medically safe procedure. However, I also believe that people, should take responsibility for their own actions. Therefore, if they chose to have unprotected, unsafe sex then there is the adoption option. If they have had sexual intercourse without consent, then the restrictions should be so that this is available. It sould also be available on abortion on medical grounds, but to make it openly available ... No.. Another problem lies in side effects..(?) maree > > > Oppose Congressional Attempts to Restrict Mifepristone (Mifeprex) > > In one of the most significant advances in women's reproductive health > in decades, on September 28, 2000 the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) > granted final approval to mifepristone (formerly known as RU 486) for > the termination of very early pregnancy. > > Anti-choice lawmakers, led by Rep. Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Sen. Tim > Hutchinson (R-AR), immediately denounced the FDA decision and introduced > bills designed to continue to block Mifeprex's availability to U.S. > women. Senators and Representatives need to hear your strong opposition > to this misguided legislation. > > The legislation would severely restrict the providers who can prescribe > Mifeprex, undermining mifepristone's promise to expand women's ability > to make reproductive-health decisions with privacy and dignity. The > effect of the bills' restrictions will be that in many cities women will > continue to endure the anti-choice intimidation, harassment, and even > violence that sometimes surround abortion clinics. > > FDA approval is the universally recognized gold standard of a drug's > safety and efficacy. In attempting to re-write the FDA's approval of > Mifeprex, anti-choice legislators are inserting congressional politics > into matters properly delegated to FDA scientists and doctors. > > In a matter of seconds, you can send an e-mail to your Senators and > Representative to urge them to oppose this misguided legislation. To > take action now and learn more about how you can stop Congress from > threatening your reproductive rights, go to > http://congress.nw.dc.us/cgi-bin/etnaral1.pl. > > Thank you! > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Get email and like it! Upgrade your brain with informative > newsletters from IDG. From hot products to high-speed LANs, > Linux to Novell, we've got the email you want--FREE at Topica! > http://click.topica.com/Kkb1dhdKb1tdQUc/PCWorld > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > --- Sponsor's Message -- Get email and like it! Upgrade your brain with informative newsletters from IDG. From hot products to high-speed LANs, Linux to Novell, weve got the email you want--FREE at Topica! http://click.topica.com/Kkb1dhdKb1tdRUc/PCWorld ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Tension in the Middle East?
--- Sponsor's Message -- Go to register.com now and register your dream domain name. Perhaps you have some great ideas, dont wait until its too late. Go to register.com today and register a domain name for it before someone else does. http://click.topica.com/Egb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Register I think that tensions have increased everywhere. You just tend to notice it more, because it is hammered home more in the US, moreso than here. Although we hear about it, our PM is not trying to resolve the issue before he leaves office. As I said to Al, months ago, when the summit was on in US, I didn't think Clinton was capable of negotiating peace. Unfortuneately, the process is going to take a lot longer than he has left in office. And as for a show of force, I think that will create more tension, remebering that leaders can make any decisions they want, but if the peole don't want it, and anti-US sentiment seems to be growing in the region, it will only serve to generate more hatred. Why not back off and allow another representative country, that is not seen as antagonist to be there? Even that probably may not help at the moment. maree > > > With the recent terrorist bombing would you consider the "tension" > levels to have increased? Or are they about the same... and it only seems > to have increased for those in the US since we've been more directly > involved? > > > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics --- Sponsor's Message -- Get email and like it! Upgrade your brain with informative newsletters from IDG. From hot products to high-speed LANs, Linux to Novell, weve got the email you want--FREE at Topica! http://click.topica.com/Kkb1dhdKb1tdRUc/PCWorld ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Milosevic out - Should EU lift sanctions?
--- Sponsor's Message -- Go to register.com now and register your dream domain name. Perhaps you have some great ideas, dont wait until its too late. Go to register.com today and register a domain name for it before someone else does. http://click.topica.com/Egb1dhdKb1tdRUa/Register > > Well, with Milosevic out the question becomes: Should the EU lift > sanctions? > > Or should they wait until they're more settled? > > How long is that going to take ? Just because one leader is gone, it doesnot mean the emotions that were generated and encapsulated the people, and tore the country apart are going to disappear. The answer has to be that the only way to go forward is with support, not just one sided, but negotiations enabling the rebuilding of society. Therefore sanctions will create more conflict ? maree > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Informational Request
> --- Sponsor's Message -- > **WIN A TRIP TO HAWAII** > Every time you send a FREE ZingCard from now until > September 11, 2000 you will be entered to win a trip to Hawaii. > http://click.topica.com/yAb1dhdKb1tdQUa/Zing > > > Hi Folks, > > How about some information just to get this list moving again :) > > Could each of you post some basic info about your political stance? Upright. seriously... it depends on what is relevant at the time of elections, or what has aggrevated me throughout their term of office / government > Such as, in favor of armed conflict when You are hoping for a serious answer on this, I am assuming... I don't know, I have never been affected to that degree... Middle East - I think possibly poses more of a threat than Russia or China ? I worry that Suddham Hussain has been quiet lately, and this may be the calm before the storm ? > or, Democracy only works when Democracy ? Does anyone truely have that ? Ron says the Swiss do (?) But sovereignty of the people, or is what we have apathy of the people ? > or, communism in the USSR failed because... > it wasn't communism, it was dictatoship, followed by despotism... > > Perhaps phrasing the comments as an "introduction"... you know, tell a > little bit about yourself (nothing too personal :)) and what you might be > looking for in this discussion group? > Well, Australian, intolerably fed up with the Olympics ! maree > How about it? anyone up for this? :) > > John T > > > > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > Get email and like it! Upgrade your brain with informative > newsletters from IDG. From hot products to high-speed LANs, > Linux to Novell, weve got the email you want--FREE at Topica! > http://click.topica.com/BHb1dhdKb1tdQUc/PCWorld > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > --- Sponsor's Message -- Get email and like it! Upgrade your brain with informative newsletters from IDG. From hot products to high-speed LANs, Linux to Novell, weve got the email you want--FREE at Topica! http://click.topica.com/BHb1dhdKb1tdRUc/PCWorld ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} war and evil
Isn't evil what drove Hitler to practice genocide, Or Hussain to use propaganda to incite anti western views and therefore allow the generation of biological warfare legitimately in the eyes of his people... Or is it female circumcision ? Then again it could be bans on trading with certain countires, which causes suffering for their impoverished... or is it the EX Mexican Govt that relaeased sewerage and flooded a town to generate support in their election... Then again it could just be the media... they manipulate the news and war to produce profit. So who defines evil, and in what context is war? Is it the media barrons trying to get first coverage and create the best imagery, or is it the war against famine and oppression... or just the bloody ones ... WWI, WWII, civil, napoleonic ? revolutions ? maree > From: "F. Leon Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > There is no connection between the two. Only hindsight. > > > > F. > > > sorry, I beg to differ war is often the tool of evil. > > > But that leads to the question of "what is evil?" How do you define it? > > > > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Re: {W&P} Anyone following the Conventions?
Money! maree From: "John Torpey > So, what's the story? I caught a brief bit of Clinton on the Gore show > last night.. wasn't impressed... but then again, I've never been impressed > with Clinton/Gore. > > Saw some of the Bush show last week... or was it two weeks ago?... anyway, > seems like a lot of hoopla :) > > So who's going to win? Will religion be a deciding factor? or does > money talk? > > > > --- Sponsor's Message -- > FREE tech advice and reviews from PCWorld.com newsletters, > available at Topica!!! > http://click.topica.com/wab1dhdKb1tdQUc/PCWorld > > > > > > > > ___ > To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 > referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! > ___ > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics --- Sponsor's Message -- STEALS AND DEALS! Cheapest prices on airfare, insurance, new cars, contractors, insurance, maids, collectibles, more. Get exactly what you want at the lowest price. New FREE service! http://click.topica.com/wmb1dhdKb1tdRUc/Imandi_com ___ To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Make A Buck Or Two @ TheMail.com - Free Internet Email Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=126357 referrer name = john_tCheck it out! It works! ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
