[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
- Original Message - From: Cheryl D. Wise I do not consider myself a programmer but someone with enough familiarity with programming to function. That's about where I am with Web designing, as opposed to the coding side. I can lay out a page with table or frame commands* and choose the colours if I have to, think I have a reasonable grasp of the use of fonts, and I have learned quite a lot about how to use Paintshop Pro to hack a picture around till it's how I want it, but I couldn't begin to put an 'A' grade site together as I lack the design skills and artistic ability. *Yes I know, I should do it in CSS, liquid layout and all that; 5 minutes to do it in tables, or a month of agony to get it working right in layers and finally giving up on NS4... I'll wait till we all got the same browser I think ducking and running The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Bj wrote: ...using various BASICs, C, Assembler (Intel 6502 and VAX Macro-32), microcode, Pascal and COBOL, have been sent on formal short courses in ICL 2966 COBOL and SCL, IBM Rexx/CMS and the Unix Bourne shell, spent over two years programming COBOL for a living and over the past twenty years have played around and done some programming in Z80 assembler, Fortran, LISP, Pilot, MS Quickbasic, MS-DOS batch language, Smalltalk, VAX DCL, Forth, Logo, Prolog, George 3, ICL Plan and DME, IBM 360 Assembler, Visual BASIC and others, even wrote a CESIL interpreter and got some way into inventing a weird language that had a Come from as well as a Go to... Tim: Wild man! :-) You've got me beat by a few. But you haven't lived until you've done RPG II. The logic's already pre-programmed, you just have to tell it what to do when...it was a real mind-bender for me 20 years ago. It's like programming a merry-go-round. Tim The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Cheryl D. Wise wrote: I find this discussion interesting. I do not consider myself a programmer because I do not like to write programs. I can and do write code though given a choice I'd rather use something already written or give that part of a project to someone who likes to write code. I took one programming class back in 1975 using basic. Then didn't touch it again until I started writing HTML back in 93-94. Even then it wasn't programming but formatting using HTML. Yes, an interesting discussion. Cheryl, you may not consider yourself a programmer but you have the foundation. After that comes the tinkering stage, where you modify someone else's code to fix bugs or just make it do something different. That's where you are now. You know you're a programmer when you look at someone else's code and say That's crap, I can do better. And then you do it. Bj, to push myself along the OO path with PHP I've started working with code from an open source, online game. It's not OO and it's buggy. The original and current developers know it needs a rewrite and they want to do it as OO. I figure working on a large project, with other people and without the time pressure of work for a client would be a good way to get past the OO barrier in PHP. However, I may have picked the wrong group of developers. Most are too busy to contribute much and the one fellow that is producing code is new to OO and doesn't do it very well (but how do I politely let him know that I don't like his code). Anyway maybe you can find a similar project. Email me offlist if you think this game might be of interest. Joseph, so how does this help you? We've all had years of experience fixing our own code and the code of others, and we are still learning. I wonder if it would have been best for you to have searched the various code respositories for an application, for example hotscripts.com. If I understand correctly, you don't really need to learn PHP, you just need an application that works for your particular project. The scripts online, versus those from a book, have the advantage of being tested online. If you limit yourself to recent releases there are fewer problems. Sheila The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
programmer design sense, enough said. grin / Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Bj *Yes I know, I should do it in CSS, liquid layout and all that; 5 minutes to do it in tables, or a month of agony to get it working right in layers and finally giving up on NS4... I'll wait till we all got the same browser I think ducking and running The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Joseph, so how does this help you? We've all had years of experience fixing our own code and the code of others, and we are still learning. I wonder if it would have been best for you to have searched the various code respositories for an application, for example hotscripts.com. If I understand correctly, you don't really need to learn PHP, you just need an application that works for your particular project. The scripts online, versus those from a book, have the advantage of being tested online. If you limit yourself to recent releases there are fewer problems. Sheila Sheila, The answer is this is very interesting to me too.Your (all of you) years of experience shine through, as I have been trying to say. What you are not seeing from my angle is the quality of the teaching that this list offers, and the depth of knowledge which is here. Though there is some truth in the idea that a script from a good source would probably meet my needs, there are two caveats. Or three. First how would I recognise such a script? Second, if I took such a script and used it would I have the faintest idea how to deal with anything that went wrong? And by that I mean even understanding what the problem was. Third, without any understanding of the code I would have no concept of its possibilities, or the possibilities it opened up. Nor of its limitations. The web is changing in many ways all the time. As with most digitally based matters there is a rapid 'democratising' as it becomes easier and easier to achieve various tasks. Gates and Windows, for all the possible criticisms, show this quite dramatically. The development of one more accessible code after another underlines this too. PHP makes for an easy entry to coding - at least in comparison to the Cs and a few others that strike me dumb. While it has taken me much longer than I hoped, I have now a basic awareness (I hesitate to say understanding) of how PHP is written and what kind of thing it can do. It is possible that fighting this book has made me do this quicker than might have been the case! I have just been looking at another 'sign-up' code and see that it approaches it with different variables as in '5 ways of doing anything in php'. While I don't really want to write my own code, I do want to fit codes together to achieve a plan or two that I have for my site; and I have to get the site going along those (hopefully, paying) lines before I will be in a position to employ those who really know how to do all the expert things so I can write poetry! Meanwhile, if you don't mind me tagging along and tugging at your coat tails from time to time, I am pleased to find myself in such sompany. And I still think there is a case for a joint book and site written by members of this list (you didn't think I'd miss a chance to mention it, did you?). Had I been allowed to do radar when I did National Service in the RAF (that dates me!) I might well have diverted into electronics and be sporting a list like the one Bj revealed. But they put me in statistics and I never looked forward. ;-) Joseph The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Sheila-- If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's [snip] The blokes at Sitepoint.com have a two-book set titled THE PHP ANTHOLOGY. Volume 1 is Foundations. Volume 2 is Applications. Kinda pricey but good info. The Visual Quickstart series has a couple of good ones on PHP but they're suffering from being based on older data like the O'Reilly book. That, and some of the forums on Internet.com, w3schools, and a few other places are moving me down the PHP road. Best regards, Don Kinney Earth Solutions, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.earthsolutions.net The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
I realise that I am not going to convince those on the list who really do know their MySQL/PHP from their 'embonpoint' to get to gether for a book (apart from rudy). But all the, very useful, pieces of information, like Don's, really underlines my point. 'Kinda pricey' for example; and the suggestions are of many different offerings - all of which are very good, I am sure. But O'Reilly is said to be out of adate, and at the speed of php development, it very difficult to keep hard copy up to date. That is why I suggested something for web code that is very web oriented. That is a book, and a site for updating. Please tell me that, even thought I can't interest you, you think it an idea that could have mileage. Joseph Sheila-- If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's [snip] The blokes at Sitepoint.com have a two-book set titled THE PHP ANTHOLOGY. Volume 1 is Foundations. Volume 2 is Applications. Kinda pricey but good info. The Visual Quickstart series has a couple of good ones on PHP but they're suffering from being based on older data like the O'Reilly book. That, and some of the forums on Internet.com, w3schools, and a few other places are moving me down the PHP road. Best regards, Don Kinney Earth Solutions, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.earthsolutions.net . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
I realise that I am not going to convince those on the list who really do know their MySQL/PHP from their 'embonpoint' to get to gether for a book (apart from rudy). i've read this sentence several times and i just do not get it you are going to convince nobody except me? you are going to convince them to write a book without me? they know their stuff but i don't? i'm not sure what i'm supposed to feel about this where are sheila and cheryl this weekend, i wanna know i wanted them to review the sql course i am developing... rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
rudy wrote: where are sheila and cheryl this weekend, i wanna know i wanted them to review the sql course i am developing... I'm here. It's Day Three of a four day weekend for my kids from school. I want to review your sql course but have been waiting for a quiet moment. Difficult with three boys in the house (and occasionally some of their friends). It's been raining so I can't just toss them all outside. Also, being in the US my taxes are due on April 15th. I need quiet time if I am to avoid mistakes. I'm afraid you have to wait in line behind Uncle Sam. Sheila The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Don Kinney wrote: Sheila-- If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's [snip] The blokes at Sitepoint.com have a two-book set titled THE PHP ANTHOLOGY. Volume 1 is Foundations. Volume 2 is Applications. Kinda pricey but good info. The Visual Quickstart series has a couple of good ones on PHP but they're suffering from being based on older data like the O'Reilly book. That, and some of the forums on Internet.com, w3schools, and a few other places are moving me down the PHP road. When the sitepoint books came out I looked at the sample chapters for what I think was Vol 1. It's very well written. I need to buy them and review them in detail. However, he goes into object oriented programming. Great if you plan to be programmer. I guess that's the problem though. People that aren't really 'programmer types' want to learn how to program with PHP. Programming is not easy. To get good at it takes time, lots of practice, and lots of patience. Sheila The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Joseph, About my contribution to your 'dream book' I have my course at EclecticAcademy.com As long as I'm teach there I can't publish it elsewhere. I have thought about adding a PHP Tips page to my site. I may do that. Sheila Smile-Poet wrote: I realise that I am not going to convince those on the list who really do know their MySQL/PHP from their 'embonpoint' to get to gether for a book (apart from rudy). But all the, very useful, pieces of information, like Don's, really underlines my point. 'Kinda pricey' for example; and the suggestions are of many different offerings - all of which are very good, I am sure. But O'Reilly is said to be out of adate, and at the speed of php development, it very difficult to keep hard copy up to date. That is why I suggested something for web code that is very web oriented. That is a book, and a site for updating. Please tell me that, even thought I can't interest you, you think it an idea that could have mileage. Joseph The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
I'm here. It's Day Three of a four day weekend for my kids from school. yeah, i know what you mean my ex and i have a co-parenting thing where the kids live with me for two weeks, then with her for two weeks... luckily they are with her this weekend but spring break week is worse than easter weekend ;o) I'm afraid you have to wait in line behind Uncle Sam. thanks for the reminder CRA (canada revenue agency) want me to submit a return for 2002 maybe i should get on it, eh? rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
CRA (canada revenue agency) want me to submit a return for 2002 maybe i should get on it, eh? I know this is off-topic, but you really need some management consulting advice here. You are obviously too busy to perform some unproductive task like completing tax forms. Eventually, the authorities will take action against you and you may finish up in prison. In prison, you will have lots of time on your hands, so you can do tax returns then. Until then, don't bother. QED. Regards, David The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
I feel myself rolling like the easter egg - or some of them that are rolled down hills - you didn't know?... Rudy, my apologies for obscurity, far from intending to suggest any lack of knowledge on your part, I was commenting that you were the only one to express interest in my idea. Sheila, I understand your situation; tips on your site would be of value to many of us. I can only add to David's succint report that when any following that advice have finished their tax returns they might also have time to write a book Ah, well, back to the poetry. Joseph CRA (canada revenue agency) want me to submit a return for 2002 maybe i should get on it, eh? I know this is off-topic, but you really need some management consulting advice here. You are obviously too busy to perform some unproductive task like completing tax forms. Eventually, the authorities will take action against you and you may finish up in prison. In prison, you will have lots of time on your hands, so you can do tax returns then. Until then, don't bother. QED. Regards, David . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
- Original Message - From: Smile-Poet I realise that I am not going to convince those on the list who really do know their MySQL/PHP from their 'embonpoint' to get to gether for a book I think Sheila's got the most important point. What I know is programming. I was taught programming formally in a 2 years' part-time college course (HNC) in 1984-1986 and again at a higher level (HND) 1989-90 using various BASICs, C, Assembler (Intel 6502 and VAX Macro-32), microcode, Pascal and COBOL, have been sent on formal short courses in ICL 2966 COBOL and SCL, IBM Rexx/CMS and the Unix Bourne shell, spent over two years programming COBOL for a living and over the past twenty years have played around and done some programming in Z80 assembler, Fortran, LISP, Pilot, MS Quickbasic, MS-DOS batch language, Smalltalk, VAX DCL, Forth, Logo, Prolog, George 3, ICL Plan and DME, IBM 360 Assembler, Visual BASIC and others, even wrote a CESIL interpreter and got some way into inventing a weird language that had a Come from as well as a Go to... My point being, it's like driving a car. If you can drive, you can drive, and getting into a new car is just a matter of seeing where the switches are on this one. I never had to learn javascript or php, or even Perl really, once I had a language reference to look up. So, maybe you think you need some code examples that do what you want, and enough grasp of what's going on to figure out if they're broke and how to fix them, but *really*, you're learning programming with php as the example. And in fact, you might even do better if there were such a thing as a pure language-independent programming course. Nearest I've seen to that is a programming environment called Inglish (not Inglish the language, which The Hobbit was written in) where you wrote down what you wanted the program to do and the preprocessor wrote a program based on that. Bit like what we call pseudo code So for instance we might design a program like this: Initialise variables Get query string variables 'id' and 'password' Query database for these values If found: Redirect to menu page; Else: Set an error message That could then be written as a Perl CGI script, php, ASP or whatever - first we break down the problem into a series of steps to solve it, then we implement that program logic in our selected language. Experience in this allows you to look at your own or someone else's finished code and see the logical structure that underlies it, which is how you find where errors are and work out how to fix them. If you don't learn programming itself as well as the operators, functions etc that make up the language, you are in the position of a tourist in a foreign country with just a phrase book and a dictionary. You can't ask any questions except the ones in the phrase book, and the dictionary is almost no use if you don't know how to put the words together. To sum up - I can't write a book on php, as I know almost as much as you about the language. But I can use it and understand how it works a lot better, because I'm a programmer. Unfortunately the sort of programming I know how to do is now out of date - as I never learned Ada, Eiffel, C++ or more recently Java, I am almost lost with object-oriented programming with its classes, methods, instances and inheritance. php is going that way, and even, Lord help us, Javascript. So, aha, I can't even write a book on programming :-/ The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
My point being, it's like driving a car. If you can drive, you can drive, nice post, bj sql is like that too once you know sql, you can use any database like oracle, sybase, access, mysql, postgresql, firebird, sql server, et cetera, et cetera the difference, though, is that there *is* an sql language, a generic, standard language, which you can learn independently of any database system neat, eh? rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
- Original Message - From: Smile-Poet Ah, well, back to the poetry. In my craft or sullen art, Practised in the still night When only the moon rages And lovers lie abed With all their griefs locked in their arms, I labour by singing light; Not for ambition or for bread, Or for the strut and trade of charms, But for the secret wages Of their most secret heart. (Dylan Thomas writing about being a poet, but it's how I feel about being a Web developer too!) Craze, caught laughing in the wind By the lunatic surge of mind through break, Gallops, blonde and danger-filled, To the far side of mad. (Bj, also writing about being a poet, but not about Web programming. Honest.) The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
- Original Message - From: rudy sql is like that too once you know sql, you can use any database like oracle, sybase, access, mysql, postgresql, firebird, sql server, et cetera, et cetera Ah, did I mention my HNC and HND courses included formal training in database methodologies, and I've used flat-file, relational and hierarchical DBMSs including dBase I thru V, Clipper, FoxPro, SmartWare, Delta 4, DataEase, IBM DL/1, ICL CAFS, Ingres, Oracle, PowerHouse, Paradox, Access... and even an old one called Filetab that was based on decision tables... so mySQL was no big deal either grin d'you reckon this is cheating? I doubt if anyone starting now will ever have the opportunity to acquire 'real-life' experience like that. So much programming that used to be done, is just not needed any more. It does mean that on several sites I've done, the database is just a text file with rows of csv data, because that was all it needed. In fact, on one site, the data is all in an array declaration at the top of the page :-) The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Like Sheila it is on my to do list. I was in Seattle at the Microsoft MVP Summit last week and returned home just in time for Easter weekend. I still haven't caught up with everything. Just returned from my brother's house where we had a family dinner. Leaving again on Tuesday for California to visit my dad and a few clients. Which means my husband/partner get to deal with the tax issue while I'm gone. I will look at it but it may still be another day or two. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Sheila Fenelon I'm here. It's Day Three of a four day weekend for my kids from school. I want to review your sql course but have been waiting for a quiet moment. Difficult with three boys in the house (and occasionally some of their friends). It's been raining so I can't just toss them all outside. Also, being in the US my taxes are due on April 15th. I need quiet time if I am to avoid mistakes. I'm afraid you have to wait in line behind Uncle Sam. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
I find this discussion interesting. I do not consider myself a programmer because I do not like to write programs. I can and do write code though given a choice I'd rather use something already written or give that part of a project to someone who likes to write code. I took one programming class back in 1975 using basic. Then didn't touch it again until I started writing HTML back in 93-94. Even then it wasn't programming but formatting using HTML. By 98-99 I wanted to do some database/server side stuff so I took a class called something like Intro to ASP for the Non-Programmer followed by a Beginning ASP class. I have worked with Access both on and off the web and learned enough SQL for my needs. Later I had a client that wanted a calendar just like in Access so I used Visual Basic.NET. Unlike my partner who is a programmer I had very little problems going from Vbscript to the object oriented VB.NET because I did not have preconceptions of how VB was supposed to work. This maybe the source of some of BJ's misgivings about his ability to deal with object oriented programming. Yet, once BJ gets over the frustration about the different code model he'll be productive quickly. I do not write C# or PHP but I can recognized the function and structure so with the type of code reference that BJ mentioned I can get a task done it if primarily relates to editing code or adding a bit of functionality in either of those languages. That's where BJ's statements caught my eye. I do not consider myself a programmer but someone with enough familiarity with programming to function. On this list my abilities when it comes to programming are trivial compared to those like BJ, Rudy and other to numerous to mention. On other lists server code questions get thrown to me as the expert because the majority know even less than I do. Along the way I have picked enough programming that while I do not consider myself a programmer other who I work with do. Knowing enough to recognize and follow someone else's code is all I ever wanted to know and I do not ever wish to write programs whether for the web or use on a desktop/server from scratch. Frankly, it amazes me that I can look at C# and see how it works/breaks when I have never worked with C# and have no desire to do so. In some ways I find it quite depressing because I end up doing more programming than I care to do because I can and not because I want to. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: rudy My point being, it's like driving a car. If you can drive, you can drive, nice post, bj sql is like that too once you know sql, you can use any database like oracle, sybase, access, mysql, postgresql, firebird, sql server, et cetera, et cetera the difference, though, is that there *is* an sql language, a generic, standard language, which you can learn independently of any database system neat, eh? The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
- Original Message - From: Cheryl D. Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 11, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update snip a long list of computer experience... I do not consider myself a programmer but someone with enough familiarity with programming to function. On this list my abilities when it comes to programming are trivial compared to those like BJ, Rudy and other to numerous to mention. On other lists server code questions get thrown to me as the expert because the majority know even less than I do. Along the way I have picked enough programming that while I do not consider myself a programmer other who I work with do. That's about it in a nutshell right there, depends on your audience eh ;-) You are a programmer in some situations like it or not because programmer is such a general word. cheers, Mark The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Folks, This is the book I'm working off. PHP and MySQL Web Development, 2nd edition Luke Welling, Laura Thomson I'm managing to work through it happily enough and would recommend it based on progress so far, i.e. about page 200. John. john.f.hughes Goodbody Stockbrokers Private Clients Ballsbridge Park + 353 1 6416048 This is a good second step - I use it too - but it still assumes a little knowledge. For absolute beginners I stand by what I said weeks ago when Joseph was starting out, that the Dummies php/mySQL guide's the best starting point for someone who has absolutely zero knowledge at all. Franni -- Mediation Technology ... mTank http://www.mediation.co.uk http://www.mtank.com Check out our View from the Fen for a Cambridge perspective on key issues in the digital world This month: 'Interaction with everything...' http://www.mediation.co.uk/view7_3.html See our web development the results of the WHSmith Book Awards at http://www.whsmithbookawards.co.uk The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Franni, When I'm learning something from scratch I usually try the Peachpit Quick Start books. A quick search on Amazon throws up this. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321245652/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-1038935-1487825 The reviewers seem positive enough about it... I don't have anything to do with the company or anything like that, and I haven't read this book myself, but what I have used by them before has been pretty effective and economic. John. This is a good second step - I use it too - but it still assumes a little knowledge. For absolute beginners I stand by what I said weeks ago when Joseph was starting out, that the Dummies php/mySQL guide's the best starting point for someone who has absolutely zero knowledge at all. john.f.hughes Goodbody Stockbrokers Private Clients Ballsbridge Park + 353 1 6416048 This information is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by any other person (except any person authorised by the addressee to deliver this message to him and only for that purpose) is unauthorised. If you are not the addressee you are prohibited from disclosing its content, copying it or distributing it otherwise than to the addressee. Please notify us immediately if you received this e-mail and you are not the addressee and did not receive it to pass to the addressee. If you are not the addressee of this e-mail you should not place any reliance on its contents. If you e-mail information to us or receive e-mail from us you should be aware that we cannot give any assurance about the security or confidentiality of any e-mail. We cannot accept responsibility for any loss which may arise to any person as a direct or indirect result of all or any part of any e-mail becoming known by anyone other than the recipient. This Disclaimer has been generated by CMDis The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
-Original Message- From: Sheila Fenelon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 6:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update Bj wrote: Joseph, you almost make me want to write a php book just for you, however I am sure there are good ones out there. If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's 2 yrs old now and PHP has changed a lot in that time. That's another problem with publishing books on web technology, things change and traditional books go out of date quickly. Sheila -- Julie C Meloni, PHP fast easy web development 2nd edition. Premier Press. Meeting BJ's requirements. Larry Ullman, PHP for the World Wide Web, Peachpit Press. Larry Ullman PHP Advanced for the World Wide Web, Peachpit Press. The companion volume for the first. Although I actually haven't gotten this one yet. And Shelia's Eclectic Academy course is a solid, simple introduction. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Folks, This is the book I'm working off. PHP and MySQL Web Development, 2nd edition Luke Welling, Laura Thomson I'm managing to work through it happily enough and would recommend it based on progress so far, i.e. about page 200. John. john.f.hughes Goodbody Stockbrokers Private Clients Ballsbridge Park + 353 1 6416048 This information is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by any other person (except any person authorised by the addressee to deliver this message to him and only for that purpose) is unauthorised. If you are not the addressee you are prohibited from disclosing its content, copying it or distributing it otherwise than to the addressee. Please notify us immediately if you received this e-mail and you are not the addressee and did not receive it to pass to the addressee. If you are not the addressee of this e-mail you should not place any reliance on its contents. If you e-mail information to us or receive e-mail from us you should be aware that we cannot give any assurance about the security or confidentiality of any e-mail. We cannot accept responsibility for any loss which may arise to any person as a direct or indirect result of all or any part of any e-mail becoming known by anyone other than the recipient. This Disclaimer has been generated by CMDis The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
drew, That's an impressive list. But are these for true beginners, or for people with other coding skills? I think php is so flexible, relatively easy, and developing so fast that people will be going straight to it, rather than adding it after the hard slog of learning and using serious coding. (That's a compliment folks, and a touching of the forelock - if i still had one - to the professionalism of this list.) The web is still expanding very fast. The nature of it encourages people to dive in and get on with it. Like me many will want to implement practical projects rather than become php pupils per se. That was the attraction of the book I have been tripping up on. That book also reveals (through its failures) better ways to do it. And many will not want to, or not be able to, attend classes. (I've just realised how hard I'm selling the idea. It must be because I have experienced how well you all teach) Joseph -Original Message- From: Sheila Fenelon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 6:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update Bj wrote: Joseph, you almost make me want to write a php book just for you, however I am sure there are good ones out there. If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's 2 yrs old now and PHP has changed a lot in that time. That's another problem with publishing books on web technology, things change and traditional books go out of date quickly. Sheila -- -- -- Julie C Meloni, PHP fast easy web development 2nd edition. Premier Press. Meeting BJ's requirements. Larry Ullman, PHP for the World Wide Web, Peachpit Press. Larry Ullman PHP Advanced for the World Wide Web, Peachpit Press. The companion volume for the first. Although I actually haven't gotten this one yet. And Shelia's Eclectic Academy course is a solid, simple introduction. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: PHP book update
Sheila, I honestly think that the best people to write a php book are the experts of wdvltalk. I can test it for you, and, as you have seen, if there is anything you have not made crystal clear I will not be able to make it work ;-) In the course of my travails I realised how real the point you make about quick-changing php. I think it would be essential - and appropriate - for a book about web coding to have an up-dating site. Anyone using the book must be online, so it is natural to offer a term membership for buying the book. Now if I can ever get Eric's script to work it would be perfect for such a site I am serious, by the way. Do the experts (*you know* who you are) want to write a book?A collaboration would be good; balance the strengths and weaknesses. Have expert editors checking the script... perfect. Joseph Bj wrote: Joseph, you almost make me want to write a php book just for you, however I am sure there are good ones out there. If anyone knows of good PHP book, for beginners, please speak up. I get asked this question all the time. The O'Reilly book might be OK but it's 2 yrs old now and PHP has changed a lot in that time. That's another problem with publishing books on web technology, things change and traditional books go out of date quickly. Sheila The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
