Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedians are rightfully wary

[Strainu]

2012/8/22 Sumana Harihareswara :
> On 08/21/2012 06:29 PM, Ryan Lane wrote:
>> When I'm doing an ops change that is user facing I write a blog post
>> and I post something to wikitech-l. I don't bother using village pump.
>> There's a reason for that. There's a *lot* of village pumps. Hundreds.
>> In different languages. I can't possibly handle that many different
>> conversations in that many languages. Even if I only post to 2-3 of
>> them, I still have to have the same conversation over and over again
>> with different sets of people.
>>
>> We need a global system for communication for things like this.
>> Everyone should be a part of a single communication thread about
>> changes. All posts in the thread should be able to be translated in a
>> crowd-sourced manner.
>
> Just a quick note that the wikitech-ambassadors list
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors is
> helping with this, and is going to be helping more -- I'll wait for
> Guillaume to lead the conversation about this, hopefully in the next 2
> weeks.

You guys (and by that I mean "anybody who doesn't regularly edit a
text-producing project[1], but needs to make announcements from time
to time"; this includes most of the WMF employees) seem to have a
problem with village pumps and instead invent all kind of alternative
communication methods, like mailing lists, IRC meetings, Meta, WMF
wiki etc., with the sole excuse being "they're hundreds of them".

Well, let me tell you in plain English with no regard to political
correctness: your excuse sucks.

It sucks mainly because automation was invented half a century ago -
I've said this here before and I'm saying it again: it takes at the
very most 2 days to write and test a script that can post a message to
any number of pages. There could be thousands of projects, the effort
from the poster would be the same.

It also sucks because the vast majority of contributors don't
know/don't want to use IRC, mailing list or even other wikis [2].
Those who know and want to use those alternative methods are
discouraged by the scarce organization of the information.

Finally, it sucks because you basically expect people to look for your
announcements and extract the information, when the whole idea of an
announcement is to push the information from the originator to the
receiver.

Sumana, my understanding of the "ambassador" concept is someone that
takes the information from you and puts it on their home wiki(s).
That's great, except it's unlikely you will find users from all the
200+ languages and even if you do, people quit, go on vacations etc.,
leading to information loss. An automated English message on the pump,
translated on the spot would be much better.

Strainu

[1] text-producing projects are all language versions of Wikipedia,
Wiktionary, Wikinews, Wikiquote, Wikibooks, Wikisource, Wikiversity
and Wikispecies
[2] The Romanian community recently decided to lock the
Romanian-language mailing list because of the many people that were
not aware what a ML is and were replying to every email asking not to
be contacted again.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] More than one result in pages without sections

[Strainu]

2012/7/30 Bináris :
> 2012/7/30 Strainu 
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I received an interesting question recently: if you have a big list,
>> without any sections, and you search for a term that appears more than
>> once, the search results show only the first appearance of the keyword
>> in the page. Is there any way to show all the places where that word
>> appears and to be able to redirect the user to that precise location
>> (let's say "precise location" means "the last anchor before the
>> keyword appears")?
>>
>

Lots of questions here :)

> Is it solved anywhere on the web?

Yes. The best known example is the Google page preview.

>Do we have to add extra features to normal web services?

You don't *have* to do anything. It was an open-ended question.
Perhaps Lucene already has such a feature?

>Is it worth to waste resources to prevent users of using their Ctrl F?

Yes, if we have lots of non-technical users needing to search for
something in the list, like we do at Wiki Loves Monuments.

Anyway, we already do this, to some extent. For instance when we
redirect users to a relevant section. Adding a similar feature for
arbitrary anchors does not seem so complicated.

> Does it help them if the last anchor is two screens above the match?

You should ask the person who implemented the "redirect to section"
feature, but I would guess the answer is yes. This is a corner case,
anyway.

> Will the results list be more useable with those long
> texts for a lot of matches?

It all depends on how you present them. For instance, you could hide
additional occurrences. Brandon could probably find a suitable
solution.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] More than one result in pages without sections

[Strainu]

Hi,

I received an interesting question recently: if you have a big list,
without any sections, and you search for a term that appears more than
once, the search results show only the first appearance of the keyword
in the page. Is there any way to show all the places where that word
appears and to be able to redirect the user to that precise location
(let's say "precise location" means "the last anchor before the
keyword appears")?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II

[Strainu]

2012/7/28 Max Semenik :
> On 27.07.2012, 22:09 Yury wrote:
>
>> I think that making Russian, Korean and Arabian captcha is really bad idea.
>> English keyboad layout is installed by default in all operation systems, as
>> far as I know. Moreover very interesting problems can appear if this
>> feature would be implemented. Who will decide what captcha language is
>> used? We can look at user IP address - then sometimes the foreigners will
>> be in trouble. We can use Ukrainian capcha for the Ukrainian wesites - thus
>> assuming that every person who knows Ukrainian has the Ukrainian keyboard
>> layout, which is not true.
>> I think that the assumption that "everyone in the internet is able to print
>> English letters loking at their noised example" is not very bold assumption.
>
> Even funnier: imagine a Eeuropean trying to just read a Chinese
> captcha:)

Funny as it may be, this is a non-problem. You can easily have a "give
me an English CAPTCHA" link... And that would be one more step for a
robot to learn, that is, one more (thin) defence line.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How to tell MW that I want to use the HTTPS version?

[Strainu]

2012/7/20 MZMcBride :
> In the time you took to write this e-mail, you could've just searched
> Bugzilla for "https". :-)

Point taken!

>
> I believe you're looking for these days:
>
> * "Resolution of protocol-independent URLs for email messages should be
> based on preference of the receiver"
> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29878>
>
> * "User preference for HTTP vs HTTPS while logged in"
> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29898>
>
> * "Notification emails should link to https, not http"
> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32769>

A lot of bugs for a single problem :) Well, 2 actually, I'm sure the
HTTP/S option would have other uses too.

>
> As others have noted, you can use the "HTTPS Everywhere" extension for
> Firefox or Chrome to mitigate this issue.

Only if you use those browsers, if you can install the extension and
if your link actually opens in a browser. Lots of ifs for an
enterprise environment, I would say.

Thanks all for the responses, anyway.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] How to tell MW that I want to use the HTTPS version?

[Strainu]

Hi,

For about as long as they've been around, I've been using the HTTPS
urls for Wikipedia and sister projects. Right now, there is basically
no way I'm leaving the secure site, with one exception: the email
messages I receive when I have a new message or when a watched page
changes. This is annoying, because I'm not signed in on HTTP and I
cannot track those visits.

Is there any way I can "tell" MW I want to receive emails with the
https urls? If not, is there at least a bug for that?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

[Strainu]

2012/6/8 Anthony :
> You seem to be assuming that vandals will switch to IPv6 at the same
> rate as non-vandals.
>
> An analogous assumption, which has proven to be false, would be that
> vandals would use anonymizing proxies at the same rate as non-vandals.

Perhaps. There's no way to know unless we try.

>
>> If there is little content available on IPv6, people will
>> not even be aware it exists and they will not demand it from their
>> ISP, which means there will be no users for IPv6 content making it
>> useless and the loop will continue. Someone had to break this loop and
>> the content providers were the easiest place this could happen.
>
> No one has to break the loop.  The loop will break itself.  Either
> enough people will get sick of NAT to cause demand for IPv6, or they
> won't.

That one way of seeing things, but I fear it's a bit simplistic and
naive. People won't "get sick of NAT", since most of them don't know
what NAT is anyway. They'll just notice that "the speed sucks" or that
they can't edit Wikipedia because their public IP was blocked. But
they won't know IPv6 is (part of) the solution unless someone tells
them to, by events like the IPv6 day.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

[Strainu]

2012/6/8 Risker :
> The issues I point out with the IPv6 transition are social issues.  Nobody
> expects Engineering to go all touchy-feely.  But we do expect to be treated
> with respect. Next time, give us a month or two of warning.  And please
> don't insult people by pretending this was a spur of the moment decision:
> the more I read, the more clear it is that for months IPv6 Day was the
> target for bringing this online.

Hi,
First of all, let me clear up any possible misunderstanding: I am not
affiliated with the Engineering team other than being a programmer
myself and having an insight on how cool, but non-core ideas (such as
IPv6 for the WMF) are pushed in such an environment. I also agree that
the WMF has more than once ignored the communities.

But from the same discussions that you read, my impression is that,
while it was clear since 11/6/6 for everybody that the best moment for
deployment was 12/6/6, the actual testing and bugfixing began very
close to the due date. This is why I said the decision was taken in
the last minute. I also don't agree with your implication that there
is much mess to be picked-up after the IPv6 rollup, nor with your
suggested solution - the checkuser distribution list is much too
limited for the implications of this deployment.

Ryan has sent his email while I was composing mine so I might be
repeating some of the stuff he said, but he made a decent
justification of why this was a last-minute decision.

All the best to you too,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

[Strainu]

> IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
> are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users

Correction: 4 :) Bhutan was too small to see on the global map (and
it's actually the leader, at 8.18% IPv6 adoption).

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

[Strainu]

2012/6/7 Risker :
> The first IPv6 edit to English Wikipedia required suppression, I have been
> advised, so I think there are some valid concerns about the implications
> this change will have on vandalism management.
>
> Does nobody else see the issues associated with having what little guidance
> there is about IPv6 locked into pages in user space on a single project,
> when this is a global change?
>

Risker, I think you're over-reacting here. Yes, there are risks
associated with IPv6. No, they haven't been addressed completely
before IPv6 day (apparently because of the very late moment the
decision to participate was taken). But it hasn't destroyed the
projects so far and chances are, by the time IPv6 vandalism will have
any significant effect, they will be solved (estimates are that 50% of
the Internet users will have IPv6 only in 6 years [1]).

I will compare this with the SOPA blackout (and the equivalent event
on it.wp). Back then, there were people talking about the negative
effects the blackout will have on the credibility of Wikipedia. The
blackout happened and passed without any significant drop in
pageviews, but with huge media and popular attention.

IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users
[2][3], and in one of them there are still troubles with the new
protocol. If there is little content available on IPv6, people will
not even be aware it exists and they will not demand it from their
ISP, which means there will be no users for IPv6 content making it
useless and the loop will continue. Someone had to break this loop and
the content providers were the easiest place this could happen.

It is good to have people aware of the problems ahead, but just crying
wolf does not really help.

Strainu

[1] 
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netsp/ipv6-launch-day.-how-many-people-use-ipv6.html
[2] http://www.google.com/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
[3] AFAIK, in both Romania and France, the huge percentages are due to
a single ISP providing "experimental" IPv6 connection

(both links come from the Slashdot stopry:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/06/07/1752201/after-launch-day-taking-stock-of-ipv6-adoption
)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

[Strainu]

I also join the ranks of people who are happy with IPv6 and thank the
WMF staff and the volunteers who made this possible.

2012/6/6 Petr Bena :
> I am in central europe and there is almost no ipv6 connectivity, more
> far on east it's ever worse, so I doubt

Wrong. :) Come to Romania and you'll have (native) IPv6 from the main
ISP and some universities (although I suspect they use some kind of
tunnel upstream since the NREN does not have IPv6 AFAIK). We've
already had a IPv6 edit on ro.wp, unfortunately it was vandalism :(

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Xmldatadumps-l] XML dumps/Media mirrors update

[Strainu]

2012/6/6 Oren Bochman :
> Dear Ariel,
>
> Consider that people who would need to use Torrent most of all cannot host
> a mirrors - this is a situation of the little guy being asked to do the
> heavy lifting.
>
> It would be saving WMF significant resources, - it would be more efficient
> than Rsync. Doing this outside the the WMF infrastructure does not make
> sense (authenticity, automation) and is the reason why use of torrents has
> failed traditionally. If the WMF does this - it should be possible for
> users to leverage all the mirrors simultaneously - which is why torrents
> are the preferred form of transport for Linux distribution.
>
> Installing a torrent server should not significantly impact workload.
> The main problems, as I see it, is to write a maintenance script to create
> the magnet link/.torernt files once the dumps are generated and to publish
> them on the dump servers.
>
> With your blessing - I would try to help with it in the context of say a
> labs, if it would be integrated into the dump release process.


Actually, the link that Ariel provided contains links to Burnbit, who
claim [1] to be using webseeds (i.e. the Wikimedia servers) to provide
the torrents with data. So in theory it should be enough to have a
script generate a burnbit torrent (or any torrent with webseeds, for
that matter) for each dump, which should be well within the reach of
an interested user. As to the actual hosting of files, the users will
only host the files they choose to seed (presumably, the ones they
work with) and nothing more.

Strainu

[1] http://burnbit.com/faq#httpseeds

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Maps extension graphical editor.

[Strainu]

Looks like some email bug. :) Let's try without anything behind the URL:

http://ec2-46-137-28-172.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com/static/google-draw2.html

2012/5/31 Daniel Werner :
> Looks good and helpful to me. One thing not working yet is the marker icons
> switching color when assigned to a group. You could take the markers from
> the maps extension directly for that.
>
> By the way, the url is
> lwithout
> the "-" in the end.
>
> 2012/5/31 Ole Palnatoke Andersen 
>
>> URL correction:
>>
>> http://ec2-46-137-28-172.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com/static/google-draw2.html-
>> there was no space between this and "and".
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Kim Eik  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi guys, i have created a simple map editor which works with the Maps
>> > extension, i'm looking for some feedback on your impression of it.
>> >
>> > please take a look @
>> >
>> >
>> http://ec2-46-137-28-172.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com/static/google-draw2.htmland
>> > let me know what you think.
>> >
>> > and also, please note it's a work in progress. My idea is to implement
>> this
>> > as a special page in the Maps extension so that people can easily create
>> > and edit maps.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Kim
>> > ___
>> > Wikitech-l mailing list
>> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Werner
> Software Engineer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | NEU: Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] UploadWizard changes live on Commons

[Strainu]

2012/5/26 Strainu :
> 2012/5/26 Erik Moeller :
>> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Sumana Harihareswara
>>  wrote:
>>> Strainu, is there a unified list of those issues?  I did some searching
>>> and I couldn't find one.
>>
>> Seconded - if you want to create a tracking bug for issues that you
>> see as blockers for WLM 2012, that would be very helpful.
>
> Will do over the weekend.

I've asked around and found out about
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments/Upload_wizard

The bug list is empty as of now, we'll fill it as we go along. I've
also logged https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37144 for
tracking WLM bugs, I'll do my best to keep those 2 in sync.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] UploadWizard changes live on Commons

[Strainu]

2012/5/26 Erik Moeller :
> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Sumana Harihareswara
>  wrote:
>
>>> What does that mean, exactly? Is there a bug associated with that?
>>
>> Maybe it's https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28850 or
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32353 but I'm not sure.
>
> I generally try to keep
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Upload_Wizard_news
> up-to-date, it's explained in more detail there.
>
> (Bugzilla: 28850) Improved category interface: You no longer need to
> confirm each category, and the indicator that a category does not
> exist is passive as opposed to a scary dialog.
>
>>> Did you also enable the parameter passing feature?
>
>> I can't tell from searching Bugzilla & Gerrit - can you give a bug
>> number or commit number?
>
> Indeed, I'm not sure what this refers to either.

I was talking about
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2012-May/002904.html

Obviously, I did not read that email carefully, since it gives a link
to commons, so yeah, it was deployed.

>>> Will there be another push to fix UW bugs before september? There are
>>> still open issues that we would like to see resolved before WLM.
>>
>> Strainu, is there a unified list of those issues?  I did some searching
>> and I couldn't find one.
>
> Seconded - if you want to create a tracking bug for issues that you
> see as blockers for WLM 2012, that would be very helpful.

Will do over the weekend.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] UploadWizard changes live on Commons

[Strainu]

2012/5/25 Brion Vibber :
> * files now start uploading immediately when selected (this can be disabled
> server-side if there are problems with it)

Yeeey... less wasted time.

> * improved category input fields

What does that mean, exactly? Is there a bug associated with that?

> * 'skip tutorial' step is now saved as a pref instead of a cookie -- so the
> tutorial won't come back every time you switch computers anymore!
> * fixes for when pre-upload thumbnails do and don't get drawn
> * initial API for fetching upload campaign metadata
> ('action=uploadcampaign'), to be used by Wiki Loves Monuments mobile app
>
> Don't be shy about giving feedback!
>

Did you also enable the parameter passing feature?

Will there be another push to fix UW bugs before september? There are
still open issues that we would like to see resolved before WLM.

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal: Special:SiteChanges for automatic deployment info

[Strainu]

2012/5/3 Erik Moeller :
> So how can we do better? I'd posit that it should be impossible to
> deploy code without leaving an exposed audit trail generated from
> commit messages, which can in turn be expanded by any interested
> volunteer into a human-readable and translated summary.
>
> I'd suggest exposing this information to a special page directly in
> the relevant wiki, say "Special:SiteChanges". This special page would
> show an automatically generated summary like so:

Yes, yes, please. :D This would be a big step forward.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] External link tracking

[Strainu]

În data de 25 aprilie 2012, 18:50, emijrp  a scris:
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emijrp/External_Links_Ranking

Thanks for that, it's pretty interesting (especially the sql file)!

În data de 25 aprilie 2012, 19:47, Lars Aronsson  a scris:
> On 04/25/2012 04:21 PM, Strainu wrote:
>>
>> Are there any statistics about the number of visitors that go from
>> Wikipedia to different websites linked with external links? We've
>> recently seen some people adding external links (as references) to
>> articles from different newspapers and I was wondering if it's really
>> worth it for the newspaper to have someone add such links?
>
>
> When a reader is looking at a Wikipedia article, and clicks one
> of the external links, there is (as far as I know) no traffic that
> goes to the Wikimedia servers to indicate this. The only thing
> that happens is that the web browser makes a request to the
> external site. But in that request, the address of the Wikipedia
> article is given as a "referer". You would have to ask each
> external site how much traffic they receive with Wikipedia as
> a referer. (Facebook and some other websites embed external links
> in a tracker syntax, that makes a call back to their own site
> before redirecting the browser to the external site. This makes
> it possible for them to know how external links are followed.
> But I think most people are happy that WMF refrains from this.)

One could also imagine an AJAX solution to this, I believe. But yes,
except for my present curiosity, I also prefer not being tracked.

>
> I'm running runeberg.org, which happens to be the external
> website with more links from the Swedish Wikipedia than any
> other. On a typical day, yesterday April 24, my site had 42,000
> page views (robot crawlers not included) from 7800 different IP
> addresses, and 902 of them had Wikipedia as a referer, namely
> 732 *different* Wikipedia pages.
>
> Here's one example, at 9:26 AM, one iPhone user got from
> http://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedjebackens_Valsverks_AB
> (an article about a steelwork) to
> http://runeberg.org/steelswe/0114.html
> (page 46 of the book "Iron and Steel in Sweden" from 1920).
> That book was scanned in 2004, the article created in 2005,
> and the link was added to Wikipedia in 2006.
>
> Was this "worth it"? I certainly didn't make any money from it,
> and I didn't pay the people who put all those links in Wikipedia.
> I think it would be very hard to do this on a commercial basis.
> It takes time to add links to Wikipedia, not just the 30 seconds
> to edit the page, but perhaps 30 minutes to find the relevant
> article and the relevant webpage to link to. Can you speed up
> that process, without getting questions about link spamming?
>

That's more or less how I see it, too. But still, there are such users
[1]. I'm estimating that about 50% of her links remain after cleanup.
I don't want to be mean, but she will probably be blocked sooner or
later for those activities (because most user still see this as
linkspam). So it must be worth *something* to the newspaper, right?

Strainu

[1] https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contribu%C8%9Bii/Ioana1005

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Re: [Wikitech-l] External link tracking

[Strainu]

În data de 25 aprilie 2012, 17:21, Strainu  a scris:
> Hi,
>
> Are there any statistics about the number of visitors that go from
> Wikipedia to different websites linked with external links? We've
> recently seen some people adding external links (as references) to
> articles from different newspapers and I was wondering if it's really
> worth it for the newspaper to have someone add such links?
>
> Thanks,
>  Strainu

P.S. The links are mostly relevant and don't get deleted, which is a
significant different from plain linkspam.

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[Wikitech-l] External link tracking

[Strainu]

Hi,

Are there any statistics about the number of visitors that go from
Wikipedia to different websites linked with external links? We've
recently seen some people adding external links (as references) to
articles from different newspapers and I was wondering if it's really
worth it for the newspaper to have someone add such links?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Namespace translations in 1.20wmf1 all kosher?

[Strainu]

2012/4/15, Federico Leva (Nemo) :
> Strainu:
>  > Actually, you shouldn't AGF.
>
> Why not. http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/AssumeStupidityNotMalice

Whatever makes you happy, 'captain.

>
>  > If I am to be the bad guy for something to change, so be it. I will
>  > live with that.
>
> Thank you for proving you're only playing the martyr.

I'm not. I'm pursuing a goal. Playing nice hasn't helped. Time for plan B.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Some tag for attribution within the article

[Strainu]

În data de 14 aprilie 2012, 16:55, Carl (CBM)  a scris:
> The point of free content is that content
> incorporated from other sources is not different than content written
> directly for our project.

Not really, no :)

The point of free content is to allow people ([1]):
* to use the content and benefit from using it,
* to study the content and apply what is learned,
* to make and distribute copies of the content,
* to change and improve the content and distribute these derivative works.

It doesn't say anything about disclaimers...

I think of disclaimers as being similar to the GFDL requirement to
attach a copy of the license to the work. Annoying, but if the
benefits exceed the cost, why not?


> Each source of content should ideally be
> credited in a similar way, whether the source is another free-content
> project or a local editor.

Agreed, but we don't live in an ideal world. Having an extension would
allow the same data to be rendered in different ways, depending on the
community consensus of the moment.

>
> but the idea of
> adding a disclaimer to the article itself seems to differ from usual
> practice which is just to list the source.

At the English Wikipedia you might get way with not using free text with
disclaimers because you have tons of free content in English and lots
of contributors to rephrase non-free content; unfortunately, I feel this does
not work for smaller languages.

În data de 14 aprilie 2012, 17:22, Platonides  a scris:
> I think that if going with an extension for that, it should be a bit
> more structurate.

Would you be able to come up with a proposal please?

> They can probably look like beig outside with the proper CSS.

Hmm... I'll try that. Mind if I poke you some time for advice?

Strainu

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_content

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Namespace translations in 1.20wmf1 all kosher?

[Strainu]

În data de 14 aprilie 2012, 01:59, Siebrand Mazeland
 a scris:
> Op 14 apr. 2012 om 00:01 heeft Strainu  het volgende 
> geschreven:
>
>> Re-adding the list, as this is of public interest.
>
> Wow. It's generally considered to be pretty rude to just publish a private 
> reply to a public list. I'm assuming good faith, but please ask next time, 
> would you?

Actually, you shouldn't AGF. I was aware that this is considered rude,
but I did it anyway. There was no reason for that email to be private.
If I am to be the bad guy for something to change, so be it. I will
live with that.

>> În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 19:42, Niklas Laxström
>>  a scris:
>>> I do consider users (at least one, me!).
>>
>> Glad to hear that, but you're not the main user of either
>> translatewiki or mediawiki in general.
>
> What's the relevance here, or do you feel like Niklas needs an old fashioned 
> and proper bashing?

I feel Niklas needs to be less ego-centric. I was talking about "the
main users of the software" and he responded that he thinks about
himself. Or was that also a hyperbole?

This also applies to many others from the development team, as a
search in the wikitech-l archives will show.

> Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of 
> speech.

That's one hell of an exaggeration, but be it your way.

>
>>>
>>> Like I mentioned in the email, I proposed that we notify affected
>>> Wikpedias *before* the changes are deployed [1] and executed that
>>> together with Gerard. They were given right to veto any change they
>>> didn't like or wanted to discuss. And some of them did use that
>>> possibility.
>>
>> Search for "translation" on the Romanian village pump:
>> https://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AC%C4%83utare&profile=advanced&search=Translation+prefix%3AWikipedia%3ACafenea&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns4=1&ns10=1&redirs=1&profile=advanced
>>
>> The ro.wp embassy:
>> https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discu%C8%9Bie_Wikipedia:Ambasad%C4%83
>>
>> I can see no such notification. No message from you, and only one from
>> Gerard, when the translation team was founded. If you chose only some
>> Wikipedias, then let me tell you this is even worse than no
>> notification at all. The thing is - the wiki environment is by
>> definition decentralized and hard to follow for small communities. If
>> you choose to notify only big wikis or the wikis that already receive
>> support from the WMF (e.g. Arabic, Indic languages), you're basically
>> having no effect at all.
>
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/107309 is not about 
> Romanian, so there's no reason for such a message at this point in time. Also 
> see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-February/058189.html.

True. My apologies here. But still, so far I haven't seen a single
message from the i18n team.

>
>> As to solutions, I have proposed at Wikimania 2010 to the person that
>> was coordinating the Translation hub from meta to put up some
>> automated notification system when a new translation request appears.
>> This hasn't happened and translations in most languages are still
>> happening by chance, as different users go by the translation hub.
>
> It's being worked on. Expect something soon.

Worked on? I know first hand that such a notification system does not
take more than a man-day to crate with a minimal set of features.
Add-ons can be added iteratively later.

So "something soon" is "much too late" from my POV. You don't need to
have it deliver french fries to the communities from the first
version. :)

>
>> I suggest you do the same, at least for Special:AdvanceTranslation
>> strings. Some time before a scheduled deployment (ideally, 7 days, but
>> at least 72 hours), notify _all_ the village pumps and some users
>> (either all the users that translated the advanced strings, or all the
>> users that sign-up on some dedicated page) of the deployment. This
>> way, you don't have to wait for the consensus, but you're giving
>> communities an opportunity to reach it.
>
> Nah. These changes are usually do rare that we'll just approach communities 
> as we go along. It seems that MediaWiki core namespace changes are now the 
> most heavily QA-ed and agreed upon changes in all of MediaWiki.

Have you considered malicious, subtle changes (e.g. change of a
diacritic just minutes before the deployment)? Are there checks in
pace to prevent them? Having the community aware ahead of time would
increase the number of interes

Re: [Wikitech-l] Some tag for attribution within the article

[Strainu]

În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 21:15, Platonides  a scris:
> What kind of contents would the tags have? An name per line? What if
> there should be something besides the name (eg. a url or email)?

I was thinking the tags should contain all the attributions, therefore
having a single instance on a page (much like )

The text between the tags would be any kind of wikitext (links, images or text).
>
>
> Note that you can achieve a similar functionality right now with a
> (series of) template which you place at the bottom of the page.

There are many existing ways of doing that, but none allows one to
escape the mw-body div. This means that the attributions would seem to
be part of the article, which is exactly what I want to avoid (since
many wikipedians are against it).

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Namespace translations in 1.20wmf1 all kosher?

[Strainu]

Re-adding the list, as this is of public interest.

În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 19:42, Niklas Laxström
 a scris:
> I do consider users (at least one, me!).

Glad to hear that, but you're not the main user of either
translatewiki or mediawiki in general.

> If we must initiate
> discussion (if there even is a community) and wait for consensus (that
> might never happen) for every change we do, we will never get anything
> done.

That's plain wrong, and Wikipedia is here to prove it :) Many user
scripts were developed after consultation with the community. They're
working great and do what users expect them to do, not what the
developers want them to do. I do agree that developement would be much
slower, though.

>
> Like I mentioned in the email, I proposed that we notify affected
> Wikpedias *before* the changes are deployed [1] and executed that
> together with Gerard. They were given right to veto any change they
> didn't like or wanted to discuss. And some of them did use that
> possibility.

Search for "translation" on the Romanian village pump:
https://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AC%C4%83utare&profile=advanced&search=Translation+prefix%3AWikipedia%3ACafenea&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns4=1&ns10=1&redirs=1&profile=advanced

The ro.wp embassy:
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discu%C8%9Bie_Wikipedia:Ambasad%C4%83

I can see no such notification. No message from you, and only one from
Gerard, when the translation team was founded. If you chose only some
Wikipedias, then let me tell you this is even worse than no
notification at all. The thing is - the wiki environment is by
definition decentralized and hard to follow for small communities. If
you choose to notify only big wikis or the wikis that already receive
support from the WMF (e.g. Arabic, Indic languages), you're basically
having no effect at all.

As to solutions, I have proposed at Wikimania 2010 to the person that
was coordinating the Translation hub from meta to put up some
automated notification system when a new translation request appears.
This hasn't happened and translations in most languages are still
happening by chance, as different users go by the translation hub.

I suggest you do the same, at least for Special:AdvanceTranslation
strings. Some time before a scheduled deployment (ideally, 7 days, but
at least 72 hours), notify _all_ the village pumps and some users
(either all the users that translated the advanced strings, or all the
users that sign-up on some dedicated page) of the deployment. This
way, you don't have to wait for the consensus, but you're giving
communities an opportunity to reach it.

The sign-up system might seem complicated, but it works - we use it on
ro.wp for unblocking requests and for responses to warnings: we're
handling all unblocking requests in a matter of minutes, vs. days
before the bot warnings.

Another way to go is to have regular deployments as a rule. Right now,
you guys are something like "oh, we'll do it about every 3-4 months,
if the review queue is not too big and if something goes wrong we'll
push it for 2 more weeks". Having the deployment schedule a year in
advance, including the features you're targeting on each deployment,
and enforcing a maximum delay of 1 week used only for deployment bugs
and nothing else would greatly enhance predictability and give
translators a target to aim for.

Sorry for the long email,
Strainu

P.S. My "accusation" was actually an observation based on my past
interactions with you on this list and on bugzilla. I don't mean any
disrespect, but I stand by it.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Namespace translations in 1.20wmf1 all kosher?

[Strainu]

În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 12:02, Niklas Laxström
 a scris:
> Since when is consensus required for software or localisation changes?

Niklas, are you having a bad day today or are you always so
inconsiderate to the main users of the software you write? A namespace
name change is a *huge* deal, and you do want some kind of consensus,
or at least majority support for that change, otherwise you'll start a
huge storm (again).

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Some tag for attribution within the article

[Strainu]

În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 14:57, Helder  a scris:
> See also bug 27629 (Collection extension needs some way to credit
> original authors of a work[1]) which depends on bug 28064 (Summary of
> page editors/authors[2]) and has links to a thread on enwiki's Village
> pump[3].

Thanks for this. My understanding from these discussion is that there
is no real willingness to solve this.

Actually, I find bug 27629 to be insufficient, since each author might
ask for a specific way to be quoted (e.g. some disclaimer associated
with the content).

Strainu
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27629
> [2] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28064
> [3] 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_91#Augmenting_article_history
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Some tag for attribution within the article

[Strainu]

În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 11:56, K. Peachey  a scris:
> How is this any differnt from using E:Cite (aka ) as is?

 is appropriate for small chunks of text, maybe a
paragraph, but not for whole sections or articles (because the text
can change and the attributions might become mixed up). Also, the way
we've been using  so far implies that the statements in that
paragraph are backed by that source, not that the content is copied
from the source (that's how I see them, anyway).

What would be needed would be some kind of section, like
"Bibliography", but the AFAIK the consensus is not to put this kind of
informations in the body of the article. That's why I was proposing a
visually different place to put the attributions in.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Some tag for attribution within the article

[Strainu]

Hi,

Before posting a bug for this, I thought I should pop a question to
see if somebody hasn't done this already.

Some of the content partners I'm in contact with are not really happy
about being attributed on the talk page and/or the history of the
article. I was thinking that we could have an extension that could
handle this. The solution I came up with was:
* have some  tags in the article; place all
the requirds attribution text between those tags in plain wikitext
* when parsing these tags, don't include the result in the main
article div (mw-body), but rather create a new tab below mw-body,
which will contain the attributions. This new div should be visually
different from the article.

I am aware this solution is prone to vandalism, but it is also a
simple way to include attributions without any additional knowledge
from the editors.

So, my questions are:
1. Has somebody done a similar extension before? If yes, is it stable
enough to deploy on WMF wikis?
2. If not, would somebody on this list be willing to make it? I don't
feel my PHP is strong enough for me to take on this, but I will help
in any way I can.

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons

[Strainu]

În data de 1 aprilie 2012, 12:39, Harry Burt  a scris:
> Hey all,

Hi Harry,

>
> Now I have more of the details sorted out, I'd like to invite feedback on
> my Google Summer of Code proposed project, entitled *TranslateSvg: Bringing
> the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons *.[1]. Obviously the
> deadline for submissions is rapidly closing in, but comments would still be
> very welcome, either before or after that deadline.

This would be great if implemented. However, I do have a small
observation on your project. You seem to want to target your extension
for deployment on Wikimedia Commons. I think a better approach is to
use it on Translatewiki, as the community there has much more
experience with l10n.

An ideal situation (but hardly appropriate for a summer project) is to
have some kind of suggestion box on Commons that would appear on
Translatewiki when that particular SVG is translated.

Regards,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Git migration: documentation and short-term considerations

[Strainu]

În data de 22 martie 2012, 18:09, Sumana Harihareswara
 a scris:
> On 03/22/2012 12:07 PM, Chad wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Strainu  wrote:
>>> From what I can see, not all the stuff that was in svn was migrated.
>>> What will happen to the wiki media planet? Will it be kept in svn and
>>> migrated later/not migrated at all?
>>>
>>
>> That's correct--not everything has been migrated over yet.
>>
>> Specifically about planet: that was moved over to the puppet
>> repo a couple of weeks ago.
>>
>> -Chad
>
> Some more details on that:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Conversion#Affected_development_projects

Thanks for your responses. What is still unclear for me (as maintainer
of one of the planets)  after reading the workflow docs is if I need
to do anything else except get an account to be able to push patches
for review. Do I need to be member of a group or I can just clone the
repository, submit locally and then ask for a review?

Thanks,
   Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Git migration: documentation and short-term considerations

[Strainu]

În data de 22 martie 2012, 15:49, Chad  a scris:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:13 AM,   wrote:
>> Some of us reading this might think that whereas with SVN we didn't need
>> an account, but with git we will.
>>
>
> No, you can make anonymous clones over https as well.

Hi,

From what I can see, not all the stuff that was in svn was migrated.
What will happen to the wiki media planet? Will it be kept in svn and
migrated later/not migrated at all?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] What is the procedure to change the owner of a WM mailing list?

[Strainu]

Hi,

The Romanian mailing lists are managed by a wikipedian that has left
the project some years ago and now he doesn't have time to moderate
the lists. What is the normal procedure to be followed to have
somebody else take over the lists?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Re-introducing "UNCONFIRMED" state to bugzilla

[Strainu]

În data de 10 martie 2012, 03:16, Mark A. Hershberger
 a scris:
>
> I set up Bugzilla today so that, by default, bugs would be in the
> "UNCONFIRMED" state.

Does this also applies to site requests? I think it shouldn't, because
these have usually been discussed extensively on the wikis.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] MathJax scalable math rendering update for 1.19

[Strainu]

În data de 8 martie 2012, 04:31, Mark A. Hershberger
 a scris:
> Brion Vibber  writes:
>
>> Here's a sample page on a test wiki, copied from en.wikipedia:
>> http://leuksman.com/mw/index.php/Alpha_compositing
>
> Beautiful.

Yes, but... is it just me or it takes at least 5s to load the
formulas? I have a pretty decent computer, for people with
lower-performance hardware it could easily take dozens of seconds.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Images in wikipedia

[Strainu]

În data de 27 februarie 2012, 11:06, nischay nahata
 a scris:
> When using wikipedia and clicking on an image it opens up on a new page.
> Wouldn't it be nice if it just scaled-up on the same page using JS. Is
> there an extension there for this? and if yes why not implemented on
> wikipedia?
>
There used to be a user script for that. I have a modified version at
http://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utilizator:Strainu/picture_popups.js
if you're interested in the code.

I can't seem to find the original version and I haven't used the
script in a long time, so there are no guarantees it still works.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Where to host wikimedia related software projects

[Strainu]

În data de 20 februarie 2012, 12:55, Petr Bena  a scris:
> Hi folks,
>
> we have had some discussion with other devs of huggle and I have a
> question, what is the best location to host wikimedia related projects?
> Documentation / web pages (preferably a wiki), I guess most suitable is mww
> but that one should be for mediawiki only or not? I am talking about
> projects like awb, pywikipediabot, dotnetwikibot, bots, labs and many
> others. I think we should either create a category for these at mww or
> maybe create a new wiki just for various software projects and related
> documentation? I would rather prefer first option for now, because it's not
> so hard to maintain and I don't think there is really a need to open whole
> new wiki just for documentation and various wikimedia projects, like labs
> etc. Second question is where to host source code and files? Some projects
> are using 3rd providers, however there is an idea to move huggle repository
> to wikimedia git after it's set up, it would be good to have all sources on
> one place so that it's easier to find various projects people might be
> interested in.

I'm guessing each project should answer this according to it's own
size and needs. One-size-fits-all answers probably don't exist.

We're hosting code specific to ro.wp on Google Code, toghether with
some OSM code. Given the poor experience I've had with
planet.wikimedia.org in Romanian, I don't think that moving all the
code to Wikipedia is such a good idea. 3rd party project hosting
providers do their best to offer as many features as possible in a
very simple way. The WMF OPS team is not made for that.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender

[Strainu]

2012/1/3 Erik Moeller :
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Strainu  wrote:
>> I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a
>> mail from "Wikipedia" would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like
>> emails from the "Federal Bureau of Investigations" or from "[X] Bank".
>
> Facebook's email messages come from "Facebook".
> Twitter's email messages come from "Twitter".
> Google Plus email messages come from "Google+".

Flickr's email messages come from "Flickr mail"
Linkedin's email messages come from different senders - by far the
best solution.
(Installed) Wordpress' emails come from different senders
AOL's (does anyone remember them?) emails come from different senders.

> OpenTable email messages come from "OpenTable".
> Netflix email messages come from "Netflix".
> Kickstarter email messages come from "Kickstarter".
> Quora email messages come from "Quora".

I'll have to take your word on that, I don't use those services. :)

>
> Not every wheel needs to be reinvented. :)
>

If you're not sure it's round, you're better off building it again or
it may crash you car.

The point is there really isn't a rule on this matter, it is just a
question of preference or marketing.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender

[Strainu]

2012/1/3 Thomas Dalton :
> Why is "Wikipedia" more suspicious than "Wikipedia mail"?

I really don't know, it's just how some people that I know (including
myself) react. For instance, I recently fell for a spam email
disguised as a Linkedin message. The sender was "John Doe via
linkedin.com" - if it had been "Linkedin.com" I doubt I would have
opened it.

Perhaps "Wikipedia user mail" or "Wikipedia email system" would be
even more descriptive without being too long?

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender

[Strainu]

2012/1/3 Erik Moeller :
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dalton  
> wrote:
>> Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as
>> "MediaWiki Mail"? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what
>> "MediaWiki" is. I suggest it be changed to "Wikipedia" or "Wikipedia
>> notifications" or something like that.
>
> I agree with the {{SITENAME}} suggestion, and would prefer to omit
> "Mail". (The fact that it's an email is self-evident.)

I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a
mail from "Wikipedia" would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like
emails from the "Federal Bureau of Investigations" or from "[X] Bank".

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bugzilla: Minor enhancements should not be tagged "highest" priority.

[Strainu]

2012/1/3 John Du Hart :
> So instead of bug fixes or security patches operations should spend time
> deploying an extension so you know who has the most edits? Not a great idea.

I disagree. If a community decided that they need an extension to know
who has the most edits, there probably is a good reason for that and
very likely, they need it now, not in 6 months. You can think of it
this way: a deployment request with a discussion on the wiki is like
an enhancement requested made by several dozen people.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender

[Strainu]

2012/1/2 K. Peachey :
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM, M. Williamson  wrote:
>> Correction: Wikipedia is the largest part of the projects. Why do people
>> always want to pretend otherwise, or lament that fact?
> Never said otherwise, Huib just said Wikipedia was one of many
> WikiMedia projects.

Now, now, let's not feed the troll, shall we?

On topic:
As such a message is a clear candidate for l10n, I suggested that
MediaWiki should have a string for that, which defaults to
"{{SITENAME}} Mail". What do you guys think?

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bugzilla: Minor enhancements should not be tagged "highest" priority.

[Strainu]

2011/12/30 Dan Collins :
> There are also numerous "highest priority" extension installations.

Site request should be treated with the highest priority.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] MediaWiki:Common.js is not loaded for Special:Preferences?

[Strainu]

Hi,

I was debugging a reported problem with the ro.wp Common.js and I
noticed that it wasn't even getting loaded on Special:Preferences.
Have I missed something or is Firebug  lying to me? :)

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Who actually reads @wikimediatech ?

[Strainu]

2011/11/29 Guillaume Paumier :
> Hi all,
>
> We've had @wikimediatech accounts on twitter & identica for some time now:
> * http://identi.ca/wikimediatech
> * https://twitter.com/#!/wikimediatech
> that basically broadcast every single action that is logged to the
> server admin log:
> * http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_admin_log

I don't use microblogging platforms, so the answer to your question
would be "I don't care". However, when I do need to check something in
the Server admin log, I can almost never remember it's address (the
domain, to be more precise) and I have to go digging in the favorites.
Perhaps a short URL would help?

Thanks,
   Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Final mobile switch-over

[Strainu]

2011/11/25 Tomasz Finc :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:41 AM, Strainu  wrote:
>
>> I've logged this as an enhancement:
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32597
>>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>> It's a shame we have to go through some not-so-nice hacks to make the
>> content for mobiles different than the one for desktops. Perhaps the
>> architecture is too iPhone/American oriented? Not all mobile users
>>
>
> Are XML DOM parsers that American and iPhone centric? I sure hope not as
> the rest of the Internet is going to have to be informed ...

Somehow, I find myself unable to laugh at that joke. You quoted that
out of context, the question goes together with the following phrases.
Plus, the XML DOM parser is the implementation of the architectural
decision, which was to parse the HTML and not the wikitext.

>
>
>> have unlimited traffic. Many people around me disable images on mobile
>> internet.
>>
>
> Yup, and thats why we've had the option to disable images for many months
> now. It lowered the payload by half. Lots of people use it. If you see
> other data heavy features on pages that we can get rid of then please file
> a bug. Were always eager to lower our payload.

Disabling images by the user is cool, but it leaves behind references
to images, which might make the text sound a little awkward. All
images in the ro.wp main page are referenced in the text. Removing
them cripples the page. This is why we had a custom webpage for mobile
and we would like to be able to use that as we go forward.

>
> Hope you will give that some serious thought when the time comes.
>>
>
> We already have and would love to drop it down even more. Next interesting
> step would actually be to load sections only when people want them. That'll
> drop down the payload even more.
>
> Turn on the webkit network profiler and let us know whats really slowing us
> down.

Isn't webkit specific to the iPhone? I was not aware it was available
on normal platforms.

As to suggestions on how to drop the load, it's the same as above: let
the users do the micromanagement of the mobile sites, they're much
better than you (i.e the WMF, not you personally)  at this.

Going back to the original issue, is there any other way to display
something else for the mobile site than including the divs on the main
page and making them invisible from the desktop site by CSS and JS?
This is what I called "an ugly hack" because it might very well fail
for text browsers or screen readers.

Thanks,
Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Final mobile switch-over

[Strainu]

2011/11/23 Patrick Reilly :
>> Thanks for the heads-up Philip. I tried to apply your advice to ro.wp
>> [1] and it worked only partially: the article of the day and the news
>> sections appear, but not the "did you know", "on this day" and the
>> custom "comunitate" sections. Why is that?
>
> Did you add the title attribute?

I figured that out last night with help from Brion and Mark. There was
a mismatch between the docs and the actual code. See
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32596

>
>>
>> Another question is how do I know in a template that the mobile skin
>> is active?
>
> Currently you don't as it occurs after the template is parsed.

I've logged this as an enhancement:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32597

It's a shame we have to go through some not-so-nice hacks to make the
content for mobiles different than the one for desktops. Perhaps the
architecture is too iPhone/American oriented? Not all mobile users
have unlimited traffic. Many people around me disable images on mobile
internet.

Hope you will give that some serious thought when the time comes.

Thanks,
   Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Final mobile switch-over

[Strainu]

2011/11/15 Philip Chang :
> TO: All Wikimedia Project Administrators
>
>
> As a follow-up to this original blog post about the new mobile site:
>
> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/09/14/new-mobile-site-launched-on-wikipedia-soon-for-sister-wikis-too/
>
> Please note that the conversion to the new Mobile Frontend extension will
> be completed in the week of November 28.
>
> This means that by default any user of a mobile device will see the mobile
> interface rather then the desktop version. Users will no longer have to add
> the extra .m by hand.
>
> This also means any home pages not yet designed for mobile viewing will
> appear with a search bar only - unless you create a home page in the next
> three weeks, which is very easy to do!
>
> Instructions for creating a home page are here:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects/Mobile_Gateway#Mobile_homepage
>
> Please forward this email as necessary.
>
> As always, the mobile-l and mobile-feedback-l mailing lists are available.
> There will be many more announcements in the coming months on mobile-l, and
> always feel free to send comments to mobile-feedback-l.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Phil

Thanks for the heads-up Philip. I tried to apply your advice to ro.wp
[1] and it worked only partially: the article of the day and the news
sections appear, but not the "did you know", "on this day" and the
custom "comunitate" sections. Why is that?

Another question is how do I know in a template that the mobile skin
is active? We have customized versions for the Quality Article and On
this Day sections that are much better adapted for the mobile screens.

Also, why do the standard sections begin with mp and the custom ones with mf?


Thanks,
  Strainu
[1] 
https://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pagina_principal%C4%83&action=historysubmit&diff=5856180&oldid=5437667

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner

[Strainu]

2011/11/21 Russell Nelson :
> Perhaps we should keep the banner space there during the time of the
> fundraiser, and if the person requests to not see Jimmy, then show them
> Brandon. And if Brandon makes them unhappy (as if!), they could switch to
> seeing pretty panorama photos. I'll contribute this one:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson/5843684817/

Hell no! When I say "I don't wanna see any fundraiser banners", it
means "i don't wanna see ANY banners related to the fundraiser, no
mater how pretty they look". Otherwise they will just go on the
AdBlockPlus list. You should respect your "no ads" policy even for
your own ads. :)

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] en-CA in MediaWiki? Rethinking our method of handling translation bugs?

[Strainu]

2011/11/14 Brion Vibber :
>> And sometimes, that means assigning general responsiblity about that issue
>> to one specific person.  Do we have that person?
>>
>
> Depends on the issue. Are you asking about a particular one from this
> thread? (i18n/l10n issues should probably start by being assigned to
> Siebrand Mazeland if there's no specific candidate you know of offhand.)
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Localisation_team

Would it be worth it to have a special product for
translation/components for each language? That way bugs could be
assigned to a translation mailing list or directly to a translator. On
the downside, it might become the favourite way of posting a
translation bug and could increase the number of bugs in bugzilla.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How Does Wikimedia Succeed As A Non-Profit?

[Strainu]

2011/11/10 Paul Houle :
>      How does the Wikimedia foundation escape this trap?

Some would argue that they don't. Just look on the number of emails on
whether the "wiki-love" feature is useful or not.

Plus, it looks to me that WMF does just what you say non-profits do:
they get a series of grants to do things and set goals for major
upgrades. There are many small improvements "forgot" because the team
is concentrating on big features.

However, there is an obvious difference between WMF and other
non-profits: very few NGOs have their website as their main way of
achieving their mission. The website is just another mean of
communication, not the center of their activity.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Thanks for supporting WLM 2011!

[Strainu]

Hey guys,

I just wanna say a _big_ thank you to all the people that were
involved in the design and maintaince of the upload system on Commons!
Over 140k of pictures in a month on top of the regular traffic is
something.

And if we got around to this, can you tell us when were the most
pictures uploaded per minute/hour/day? Do you guys have such
statistics?

Thanks A LOT,
   Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Spammer

[Strainu]

Would someone please ban this email address from wiki mailing lists?
This is the third email from him

Thanks,
   Strainu

2011/9/17 William Nelson :

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Re: [Wikitech-l] UploadWizard Triage

[Strainu]

Hi Mark,

If a bug was marked as "Unprioritized", does that mean that it won't
be discussed in the triage?

Thanks,
  Strainu

2011/9/7 Mark A. Hershberger :
>
>    What:  UploadWizard bug triage
>    When:  Wednesday, Sept 7, 19:00UTC
>           Time zone conversion: http://hexm.de/6v
>    Where: #wikimedia-dev on freenode
>           Use http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=wikimedia-dev
>           if you don't have an IRC client
>
> Tomorrow, I'll be working with the features team to do a triage of
> UploadWizard bugs.  Please join us if you'd like to find out the status
> of your favorite UploadWizard bug.  We'll be working from
> <http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/BugTriage-2011-09>.  If you have any
> comments, feel free to update the Etherpad with your comments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark.
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] RFC: Geo RSS for recent changes

[Strainu]

2011/8/31  :
>>>>>> "BV" == Brion Vibber  writes:
> BV> I'm not sure how actually useful it would be though; the raw RSS feeds are
> BV> pretty poor anyway as the number of items available in say RecentChanges 
> is
> BV> tiny compared to the edit rates, and the location of things whose articles
> BV> are being edited doesn't necessarily provide a lot of useful information
> BV> about ongoing editing activity.
>
> Hmm, a police scanner wiki where each page represented a district
> office, with low edit rates, might seem a good candidate,
> http://jidanni.org/comp/wiki/article-category.html .
> But I don't think I will bother to add geolocation myself.
>

Thanks all for your feedback. It seems that there is some potential on
this idea, so after I'm done with Wiki Loves Monuments I'll try to put
up a demo. I'll let you know the output.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Collection extension/PDF Export triage

[Strainu]

2011/8/23 Mark A. Hershberger :
>
>    What:  Collection extension triage bug triage
>    When:  Wednesday, August 24, 17:00UTC
>           Time zone conversion: http://hexm.de/65

Hi,

The time zone conversion is for 15:00UTC. So which time is the triage
after all? :)

Thanks,
  strainu

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[Wikitech-l] RFC: Geo RSS for recent changes

[Strainu]

Hi,

Just a quick thought about the recent change feed [1]. Wouldn't it be
interesting to transform it in a GeoRSS [2]?

This would be done by adding the coordinate from the articles, if
available, and/or by using rssToGeo [3] where coordinates are
unavailable? I'm not necessarily looking to get that included in
MediaWiki, but I would like to see if creating a "recent changes on a
map" service would be useful to someone.

Thanks for your feedback,
   Strainu



[1] 
http://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Schimb%E3ri_recente&feed=rss
[2] http://georss.org/Main_Page
[3] http://www.geonames.org/rss-to-georss-converter.html

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[Wikitech-l] How long does it take for the commons thumbnails to update?

[Strainu]

Hi,

How long does it take for the commons thumbnails to update after a new
version has been loaded?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Update Gadgets extension on WMF wikis

[Strainu]

2011/6/8 Ildefons Stułbia :
> 2011/6/7 Leo Koppelkamm :
>> There's usually some code (general utility fn's, some legacy remappings 
>> etc.) in common.js that could break a lot of stuff if missing. +1 on moving 
>> optional stuff to gadgets
>
> It depends on project. General utility functions should be available
> as modules, which can be loaded when there is such need (as a
> dependency to a gadget or by user/script explicitly). It makes easier
> to port gadget to other projects and maintain them, when its
> dependencies are well defined, so all changes can be easily tracked.
> Separate modules can be directly imported, which is impossible with
> overbloated MediaWiki:Common.js.
>

Yes, it does depend on the project, but I'm pretty sure that in most
projects there are some chunks of js in Common.js that simply should
not be disabled.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] The average size of a wikipedia article in Spanish

[Strainu]

I think the place to look would be
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaES.htm. However, the
average size hasn't been updated since 2009. I sent an email about
this to Erik a few days ago and he said these stats will be available
after some new servers will have been installed. No ETA, though.

Strainu

2011/6/2 Wilfredor :
> Hi,
>
> I have a simple question
>
> What is the average size of a wikipedia article in Spanish?
>
> I need this to calculate the amount of articles that can be included
> on a CD. Subsequently, this size will be compressed by LZMA2 (OpenZIM
> format)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_comparisons => is updated?
> --
> Lcdo. Wilfredo Rafael Rodríguez Hernández
>
> msn,googletalk = wilfre...@gmail.com
> blog = http://wilfredor.blogspot.com
>
> "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
> free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're
> doing."
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Shell requests backlog

[Strainu]

Hi,

Just a couple of notes regarding your email:

> However, I admit I have been giving non-shell requests a bit more
> attention in my bugmeistering because the people with shell access are
> pretty good about dealing with the requests.  For example, of the 20
> shell requests opened this month, only 12 have not yet been dealt with,
> which means 40% of shell requests opened in the past two weeks are
> already completed.

Why not establish a limit for requests that do not pose problems? Say,
a month. You could concentrate only on the bugs that are older than
that and hope that the shell team will empty the queue before they
enter your report.

>
> By comparison, only 85 of the 256 shell requests created since the first
> of the have not yet been closed, so 67% of the shell requests opened
> this year are completed.

Unless there is a good reason (like for LQT), I would say (from the
user POV) 5 months for such a request is excessive.

>
> That said, many of the open requests are open for a reason.  For
> example, the LiquidThreads request that you list:
>
>> 25609 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25609> Enable
>> liquidthreads for the Wikimedia Brasil wiki (waiting since 2010-10-21)

Such info should be added to the bug when you visit it and updated as
often as possible. Many people making site requests (me included) do
not actively follow MW developpement. This means that we only see the
end result - it takes lots and lots of time to have an extension
activated on our wikis.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Shell requests backlog

[Strainu]

I totally aggree that site requests take waaay to long to be closed. I
therefore support Luiz Augusto's request.

Strainu

2011/5/15 Luiz Augusto :
> Hi all,
>
> Firstly, thank you very much for enabling DPL on all Wikisources! [1] It is
> IMO a pity that this request was fulfilled based only in a direct request,
> but at least it is now enabled.
>
> I'm no longer involved on Wikimedia projects like in the past years, but I'm
> still looking their development, for research pursposes. A lot of things
> have changed on this time, but the issue of simply shell requests generating
> a backlog don't seems to be one of those.
>
> Please help us to develop Wikimedia contents in foreign languages simply
> giving 30 minutes each week to check those requests!
>
> Examples of backlogs:
>
> 25609 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25609> Enable
> liquidthreads for the Wikimedia Brasil wiki (waiting since 2010-10-21)
>
> 28290 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28290> Create
> namespaces Page and Index for Esperanto Wikisource (waiting since
> 2011-03-28)
>
> 28686 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28686> Enable
> namespace "Mutirões:" for WIkimedia Brasil (wainting since 2011-04-24)
>
> Best,
> --[[:m:User:555]]
>
> [1] - http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikisource-l/2011-May/000973.html
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Need some help with a problem with the Cite extension

[Strainu]

They look OK to me now. I will get back if I will get more error
reports though :)

Thanks Platonides and Ryan.
Strainu

2011/4/6 Ryan Kaldari :
> Well it fixed the functionality of the links, but they still look weird.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On 4/5/11 4:02 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>> Implemented the workaround. Should be fixed now.
>>
>> Ryan Kaldari
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/11 3:42 PM, Platonides wrote:
>>> Strainu wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Today, some users on ro.wp reported that the citations used more than
>>>> once in the text had changed appeareance. Instead of "^a,b", we now
>>>> have something like "↑ 34,0 34,1". This was considered disturbing by
>>>> some users. Furthermore, the backlinks from the notes section to the
>>>> article are not functioning. This does not happen on en.wp or other
>>>> wikis. See http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorin_Goian vs.
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyozellus
>>>>
>>>>   From [[Special:Version]], I checked that the versions of the Cite
>>>> extension were identical, then I searched for a relevant bug in
>>>> bugzilla, both at the "Site requests" and at the "Cite extension", but
>>>> I could find nothing. Does anybody know what is the matter with the
>>>> links? I did not file a bug report because I'm not sure if this is a
>>>> php problem or some setting on ro.wp which makes the extension
>>>> misbehave.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot for any pointers,
>>>>      Strainu
>>> The problem are actually links to anchors starting with an underscore,
>>> which was broken in r68358 (they get stripped). It already was reported
>>> as bug 27474, but I had to rediscover it the hard way.
>>> You can work around it by changing
>>> http://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:cite_reference_link_prefix&action=edit
>>> to not begin with an underscore (the default since r32160, cite_ref-
>>> works fine).
>>> I reverted it on r85481.
>>>
>>>
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[Wikitech-l] Need some help with a problem with the Cite extension

[Strainu]

Hi,

Today, some users on ro.wp reported that the citations used more than
once in the text had changed appeareance. Instead of "^a,b", we now
have something like "↑ 34,0 34,1". This was considered disturbing by
some users. Furthermore, the backlinks from the notes section to the
article are not functioning. This does not happen on en.wp or other
wikis. See http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorin_Goian vs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyozellus

From [[Special:Version]], I checked that the versions of the Cite
extension were identical, then I searched for a relevant bug in
bugzilla, both at the "Site requests" and at the "Cite extension", but
I could find nothing. Does anybody know what is the matter with the
links? I did not file a bug report because I'm not sure if this is a
php problem or some setting on ro.wp which makes the extension
misbehave.

Thanks a lot for any pointers,
   Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Is it possible to edit the existing edit toolbar sections?

[Strainu]

2011/2/21 Minh Nguyen :
> On 2011-02-17 3:10 PM, Strainu wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I'm trying to modify an existing Vector toolbar section. I found the
>> following at 
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor/Toolbar_customization
>> , in the "Modifying things" section:
>>
>> "The best we have is a hook to change the configuration of a section
>> just before it's being built:"
>>
>> However, since the MediaWiki:Common.js and the user JS are loaded at
>> the very end of the page, the toolbar is already built by the time I
>> try to modify it. I tested with the code at
>> http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Toolbar.js and what I noticed
>> is that, while the exterior function is being called, the callback
>> function is not.
>>
>> Could someone give me any pointers on how to make a new page in the
>> existing 'characters' section? (I was able to add one in a newly added
>> section just fine, but I want it in the characters section)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>    Strainu
>>
>> P.S. I take this opportunity to renew my appeal for a simplified,
>> non-technical way to add elements to the toolbar (bug 25068)
>
> See the functions addVietCharPage() and bindVietCharPage() at the bottom
> of <http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js>. (The line
> about "#charinsert-viet" won't be necessary.)
>
> --
> Minh Nguyen 
> AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: m...@1ec5.org; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/

Working out of the box Minh! Looks like the solution was a combination
between what was written in the page
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor/Toolbar_customization
.

Thanks a million!
Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Is it possible to edit the existing edit toolbar sections?

[Strainu]

Hi all,
I'm trying to modify an existing Vector toolbar section. I found the
following at 
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor/Toolbar_customization
, in the "Modifying things" section:

"The best we have is a hook to change the configuration of a section
just before it's being built:"

However, since the MediaWiki:Common.js and the user JS are loaded at
the very end of the page, the toolbar is already built by the time I
try to modify it. I tested with the code at
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Toolbar.js and what I noticed
is that, while the exterior function is being called, the callback
function is not.

Could someone give me any pointers on how to make a new page in the
existing 'characters' section? (I was able to add one in a newly added
section just fine, but I want it in the characters section)

Thanks,
  Strainu

P.S. I take this opportunity to renew my appeal for a simplified,
non-technical way to add elements to the toolbar (bug 25068)

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[Wikitech-l] Flagged revisions test wiki?

[Strainu]

Hi there,

Is there a WMF test wiki where I could play around with Flagged
Revisions without breaking anything? I'm interested in especially in
the configurations used on the major Wikipedias. Alternatively, is
there someplace where the configurations used are are explained? My
understanding is there are some differences in the usage patterns
between de.wp and en.wp, for instance.


Thanks,
 Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] [WikiEN-l] Images loading slowly?

[Strainu]

I've seen this too. For me, the page gets stuck at loading either the
geoiplookup script (hence my question about it a few days ago) or
something from bits.wm. If i believe some dns tools, they are hosted
on the same server, so it could be a connectivity problem to that
server.

Strainu

2010/11/5, George Herbert :
> I was fine until now;
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fat_Man  has the top
> image broken now consistently.  I have checked on multiple computers,
> same results.
>
> Cc'ed wikitech-l.  I'd post to IRC but I'm not able to access it at
> the moment...
>
>
> -george
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Alan Liefting  wrote:
>> Some are not loading for me at all this morning.
>>
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2010 6:19 a.m., Charles Matthews wrote:
>>> I've noticed a very much slower rate of loading of images for several
>>> days now. It's affecting the work I can do. Is this a general
>>> experience, or is it perhaps my ISP?
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herb...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Geoiplookup

[Strainu]

2010/11/3 Chad :
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Strainu  wrote:
>> Hi there.
>>
>> What is http://geoiplookup.wikimedia.org/ and how is it used in the
>> wikipedia articles? I haven't seen this subdomain loading until
>> recently.
>>
>
> It's a IP-to-location lookup service[0]. The only thing I know it's
> being used on is for targeting the country-specific donation
> information.
>
> -Chad
>
> [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolocation_software
>

Thanks Chad. I'm interested in some more informations about that,
especially how does this relates to the Privacy policy.

Is the information stored anywhere? Is there any way to opt-out of
this? Is there another service used for this project (I'm thinking
Google Latitude, but there are others)?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Geoiplookup

[Strainu]

Hi there.

What is http://geoiplookup.wikimedia.org/ and how is it used in the
wikipedia articles? I haven't seen this subdomain loading until
recently.

Thanks,
   Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Central interwiki and similar proposals

[Strainu]

2010/10/11 Marcus Buck :
>  An'n 11.10.2010 20:13, hett Strainu schreven:
>> 2010/10/11 Marcus Buck:
>>> There was a Google Summer of Code project:
>>> <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Peter17/Reasonably_efficient_interwiki_transclusion>.
>>> It's basically ready to use. About the _actual_ implementation you have
>>> to ask the Foundation developers.
>> Marcus, I would hardly call that project "ready to use". It leaves
>> many issues unresolved, such as:
>> 1. local editing of the remote data with unified/non-unified accounts
>> 2. automatic translation importing from translatewiki (people would
>> probably want to use localized parameters/template names)
>> 3. all the known limitations noted there :)
>>
>> It looks like a good start, but I somewhat doubt we will be seeing it
>> in production soon.
> If in Nikola's solution all this works, I wasn't aware of it. #1 to me
> actually seems like an advantage. If data is changed for all wikis users
> must go to the central wiki to edit it. Otherwise it'll definitely lead
> to problems. #2 also is only a problem if we accept that #1 is wanted as
> a behaviour.

Well, Nikola's solution is limited to interwiki links (I think), so it
has very little to do with those issues (only the name of the page in
the central wiki, if I remember correctly). Regarding the local/remote
editing, experience has shown me that most people hate to leave their
home wiki, even if the new wiki is in their native language and has no
radically different rules. This is especially true for small wikis.
Editing the data on the central wiki will limit the number of editors.
This could be a good thing, but I tend to believe it is overall better
to have many people editing the data.

#2 is in no way linked with number 1. To use the example you have used
on foundation-l, here is how {{town}} should look in English and
French for Bucharest:

{{Town
|name=Bucharest
|country=Romania
|pop=2,000,000
|lat=45.0
|lon=26.0
|elevation=12
|mayor=Sorin Oprescu
}}

{{Ville
|nom=Bucarest
|pays=Roumanie
|pop=2.000.000
|lat=45.0
|lon=26.0
|hauteur=12
|maire=Sorin Oprescu
}}

As you can see, there are differences in both the syntax and the data
of the template. The difference in the data can be avoided by keeping
only the common parts, like the coordinates and the iw links,
centralized. #2 refers specifically to the differences in syntax. If
you keep this approach, you're basically keeping people who do not
know English at bay from editing the central wiki. And I think this is
a much more significant problem for smaller languages, which you want
to help.

>
> Actually I have no specific preference for any of the two solutions. I
> just wanted to hint at an alternative effort.

It was good to know the Foundation invested into that, thanks. :)

> The only thing I care about is, that _some_ solution is found and
> implemented. Both solutions can be implemented in a short period of time
> if only somebody cared to start the process. It's the most important
> development step for Wikimedia in years. Possibly ever.
> See e.g.
> <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-August/060628.html>.

I couldn't agree more on that. I am eager to see more effort into this problem.

>
> Marcus Buck
> User:Slomox

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Central interwiki and similar proposals

[Strainu]

2010/10/11 Marcus Buck :
> There was a Google Summer of Code project:
> .
> It's basically ready to use. About the _actual_ implementation you have
> to ask the Foundation developers.

Marcus, I would hardly call that project "ready to use". It leaves
many issues unresolved, such as:
1. local editing of the remote data with unified/non-unified accounts
2. automatic translation importing from translatewiki (people would
probably want to use localized parameters/template names)
3. all the known limitations noted there :)

It looks like a good start, but I somewhat doubt we will be seeing it
in production soon.

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[Wikitech-l] Central interwiki and similar proposals

[Strainu]

Hi,

These days I had a little time to clear my TODO list after Wikimania
and I tried to find some information about the "central interwiki
repository" idea. While it was fairly trivial to find info about the
proposal itself [0] and the technical details proposed by Nikola
Smolenski, it was not so easy as to discern the current status of the
proposal.

What I want to know is:
1. Is there support from the community for some extended tests on this
subject on the Wikimedia websites?
2. Are there plans to extend the current extensions in order to
support something like [1], which would be much more interesting, but
also much more challenging?
3. Perhaps there are alternate proposals which target the same problem?

Thanks,
  Strainu

[0] 
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:A_central_wiki_for_interlanguage_links
[1] 
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:A_central_repository_of_all_language_independent_data

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Re: [Wikitech-l] About wiki links: could they point to page id?

[Strainu]

2010/10/4 Alex Brollo :
> It's strange (but I guess that there's a sound reason) that plain wikilinks
> point to a variable field of wiki records (the name of the page) while many
> troubles would be solved, if they could point to the invariable field of
> such records: the id. The obviuos restult is, that all links are broken (and
> need fixing) as soon as a page is "moved" (t.i. renamed).

Don't redirects exist specifically for that?

>
> My question is: which is the sound reason for this strange thing? There's
> some idea about fixing this?

Err.. perhaps they decided people should be able to comprehend the
link destianation? Plus I remember something about "nice URLs" being a
MUST DO in SEO a while ago...but I'm not 100% sure on that. I
certainly hope this won't change anytime soon, on Wikipedia at least.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] On decentralized discussions

[Strainu]

2010/9/9 Domas Mituzas :
>
>> Why decentralized discussions even more? And is there a reason you
>> always seem to spilt your replies to the thread into new treads/topics
>> instead of just replying to the original one?
>
>
> Innovation, maybe?
>
> Domas

Except when one "forgets" to change the subject and everything becomes
impossible to follow, even with the best threading view...

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Local redirects to commons images (was: Image redirects - has the behavior changed?)

[Strainu]

2010/8/15 Chad :
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Strainu  wrote:
>> 2010/8/14 Strainu :
>>> I remember last year image redirects used to work flawlessly. Tonight
>>> I can't seem to get one working. Has the behavior of MediaWiki changed
>>> or am I doing something wrong?
>>>
>>
>> Thanks to a user from wikimedia-tech, I found out that the issue was
>> that I was trying to redirect to a commons image, which is not yet
>> supported. I think it would be a pretty good idea to have something
>> like that. How hard would it be to actually implement this kind of
>> redirections? Is anyone willing to do it? I would be, but I think I'll
>> need some guidance.
>>
>
> Redirects to ForeignDBRepos (like Commons) or ForeignApiRepos
> (InstantCommons) don't work. I played with it before, but I can't
> remember what the exact issue was.
>
> The code you're looking for is rather spread out, as file redirects
> are handled by both the ImagePage and File classes (and File's
> various subclasses).
>

Thanks Chad and Ilmari for your indications! I'll just have to
circumvent this problem somehow for now.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Local redirects to commons images (was: Image redirects - has the behavior changed?)

[Strainu]

2010/8/14 Strainu :
> I remember last year image redirects used to work flawlessly. Tonight
> I can't seem to get one working. Has the behavior of MediaWiki changed
> or am I doing something wrong?
>

Thanks to a user from wikimedia-tech, I found out that the issue was
that I was trying to redirect to a commons image, which is not yet
supported. I think it would be a pretty good idea to have something
like that. How hard would it be to actually implement this kind of
redirections? Is anyone willing to do it? I would be, but I think I'll
need some guidance.

Thanks,
  Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Image redirects - has the behavior changed?

[Strainu]

Hi,

I remember last year image redirects used to work flawlessly. Tonight
I can't seem to get one working. Has the behavior of MediaWiki changed
or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] InputBox and getElementsByName

[Strainu]

Hi,
I've noticed that Extension:InputBox generates HTML with only the
"name" attribute, but no id. Is this a feature or a bug?

I'm asking because I'm trying to get a "onsubmit" hook for a form
generated by this extension. I tried doing something like:

if (document.getElementsByName('createbox').length)
  {
var i=0;
for(i=0; i < document.getElementsByName('createbox').length; i++){
  document.getElementsByName('createbox')[i].onsubmit=function() {
var 
ta=document.getElementsByName('createbox')[i].getElementsByName('name')[0];
if(!ta){
  return true;
}
//do stuff
  }
}
  }

(actually the code is a little cleaner, but this is a more concise form)

I'm getting a "document.getElementsByName('createbox')[i] is undefined
error", even if firebug reports the getElementsByName function returns
an array with 1 element. Could some JS-wizard help me out on that?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] wikipedia is one of the slower sites on the web

[Strainu]

On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:49 AM, John Vandenberg  wrote:
>
> Could we add a logged-in-reader mode, for people who are infrequent
> contributors but wish to be logged in for the prefs.
>
> They could be served a slightly old cached version of the page when
> one is available for their prefs.  e.g. if the cached version is less
> than a minute old.
> The down side is that if they see an error, it may already be fixed.
> OTOH, if the page is being revised frequently, the same is likely to
> happen anyway.  The text could be stale before it hits the wire due to
> parsing delay.

That could work on the first 3-5 wikipedias by number of visitors, for
the rest you are most likely to serve VERY old versions (or just
re-parse the page if you put a low threshold).

Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] wikipedia is one of the slower sites on the web

[Strainu]

> And if
> you're logged in, I'm betting we're much less optimized -- certainly
> if you have unusual parser preferences (which I'm sure you do), so you
> miss the parser cache regularly.

Could you please elaborate on that? Thanks.

Andrei

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Self-determination of language versions in questions of skin?

[Strainu]

> (I'd argue that changing the skin to vector is a strategic decision by
> WMF and cannot be overruled by local communities - but that's something
> a system administrator has to decide.)
>

I'd say the system administrators will do as the foundation (board
perhaps? or some other organ) says.

Having different looks on different wikipedias is raising some
identity questions, but I'd say that the simple fact that right now
en.wiki looks in a way and smaller wikis look differently is a hint
that the problem is not that serious. I'm really curious about the
outcome of this discussion, be it here or not :)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Automatic links to man pages

[Strainu]

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:46 PM, masti  wrote:
> why not use http://linuxmanpages.com/ as external link?

The site is unimportant, what is important is to have the link
automatically created, hence shortening the wikitext.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Nikola Smolenski  wrote:
> This should be technically possible, but I don't think it is a good
> idea, since "man something" often appears in other contexts:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bman+site%3Awikipedia.org

Then "man N command", where N is a number.

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[Wikitech-l] Automatic links to man pages

[Strainu]

Hi,

Is there a way to create a link to a unix command man page by writing
"man command" (like it happens with RFCs)? I searched for an extension
to do this, but I've been unlucky :)

If nothing has been implemented, do you think it would be a good idea
to have this in Wikipedia? I personally think it would be very useful
for many articles related to Linux/Unix.


Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"

[Strainu]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>
> Also, purely for the sake of idle curiosity, I'd like to see what
> impact the Windows Browser Choice thing that is launching in Europe
> about now has. That means we need stats from before and after.
>

That option launches next week in 3 countries and will expand during
march. So stats from feb. '10 and mar. '10 should do the trick.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"

[Strainu]

Hi guys,

I'm reopening this discussion to bring up an Idea that Thomas had
below: could we have an updated stat for browser market share? It
would be nice to have for a migration we're considering on ro.wp.

Thanks,
   Strainu

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> On 30 January 2010 14:42, Chad  wrote:
>> Whoops, haven't had any caffeine yet this morning, left the two links
>> off here. They're:
>>
>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/61083
>
> Interestingly, the revision summary for that revision gives a link to
> general browser stats, rather than Wikimedia browser stats, which are
> obviously the relevant ones (although we have such high reach that
> there isn't a large difference). We have stats from Nov 2009
> (http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm) -
> were those generated by a script that could be run again? Getting some
> trends could help us work out when to ditch IE6. The recent
> Google/China/IE story has received lots of coverage, including the
> authorities in France and Germany advising people to ditch IE
> entirely, so IE6 usage has probably shown a noticeable dip.
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia Google Earth layer

[Strainu]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Steve Bennett  wrote:
> On 10/3/09, Platonides  wrote:
>
>> They use the dumps, and they reported some time ago to do so about once
>>  a month.
>
> That'll teach me to speculate.
>

I guess so :)

Thanks for the info, Platonides. I'll try to contact Jason to see what
else can I find out.

Andrei

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia Google Earth layer

[Strainu]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Tei  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Strainu  wrote:
> ...
>> I'm not sure if Wikimedia has anything to do with it, but I think I
>> have a better chance of getting an answer here than by asking Google
>> (the company) directly. Google (the search engine) was not really
>> helpful on the matter.
>
> you could always install Ethereal, and spy the trafic from your
> computer to the network. It probably include some HTTP servers, and
> GET / POST request you can read.

That would mean assuming that the data is gathered on-the-fly, which I
strongly doubt. I am more inclined to think that Google has some
periodically updated database with the coordinates-articles
relationship.

Andrei

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[Wikitech-l] Wikipedia Google Earth layer

[Strainu]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone here knows how often does Google update
their Wikipedia layer for Google Earth and how do they get the data? I
mean, they use the geo templates in the articles, but do they parse a
wikipedia dump or they use a crawler or some other method.

I'm not sure if Wikimedia has anything to do with it, but I think I
have a better chance of getting an answer here than by asking Google
(the company) directly. Google (the search engine) was not really
helpful on the matter.

Thanks,
   Andrei

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia iPhone app official page?

[Strainu]

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> Is there an official page for the iPhone app, other than the iTunes
> store link? Some sort of "about" page, a link to the source, etc.?
>
>
> - d.
>
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See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_iPhone_app for some info...

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Mediawiki and html5

[Strainu]

Hi,

I've heard that wikipedia will be among the first content providers to
support the video and audio tags in html5. I'm trying to put up a
presentation about the subject for a FF3.5 release party and I would
like to find out more. Could you point me to some documents or answer
some of the questions below?

1) When will this support appear?
2) Has the code already been modified accordingly?
3) How much time will legacy browsers be supported?
4) What prompted this desire to be an early adopter of this technology?
5) Will other codecs except Theora be supported?

I know some of these questions have already been answered, either here
or on the techblog (which BTW is currently down), but I thought
putting them all toghether would make more sense.

Thanks,
  Andrei Cipu [aka Strainu]

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[Wikitech-l] Deployment policy on Wikipedia

[Strainu]

Hello,

I need a little help understanding the deployment policy used on
Wikipedia in order to have a better image of the relation between
different types of request in bugzilla and the code added to ro.wp
following those requests.

I read at 
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES?view=markup&pathrev=51492
that "MediaWiki is now using a "continuous integration" development
model with quarterly snapshot releases. The latest development code is
always kept "ready to run", and in fact runs our own sites on
Wikipedia.".

Indeed, when googling for the blogs of some wikimedia engineers, you
can see that at certain times the latest code from trunk is pushed
onto the production servers. On the other hand, when activating an
extension, the latest stable version is activated.

Is this the way it's really happening? If so, why are there two
different policies? Which of those two do you consider best?

Thanks,
Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Internal links and diacritics

[Strainu]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Ahmad Sherif  wrote:
>>
>> You have to use the MediaWiki:Linktrail page, for example:
>> http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Linktrail (or see the same page on
>> fr.wiki).
>
>
> AFAIK, it has to be set in the language file thru $linkTrail variable,
> because it looks like that MediaWiki:Linktrail is no longer used.
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Tar Dániel  wrote:
>
>> You have to use the MediaWiki:Linktrail page, for example:
>> http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Linktrail (or see the same page on
>> fr.wiki).
>>
>> D.
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Yep, I started from there and got to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Linktrail It suddenly
became all clear :)

Thank you all for your responses.

Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] Internal links and diacritics

[Strainu]

Hi,

I'm trying to format a link like this: [[musulman]]ă. On ro.wp, this
is equivalent to [[musulman|musulman]]ă (the special letter is not
included in the wiki link. While going through
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Markup_spec I saw that:

 ::=[ "#"
 ] [  [] ] 
[]
 ::=  []
::=  | 
  ::= "A" | "B" | ... | "Y" | "Z"
  ::= "a" | "b" | ... | "y" | "z"


This tells me that only ASCII letters are used for this type of
linking. However, on fr.wp I can write [[Ren]]é and this is equivalent
to [[Ren|René]].

How was this made? Is it something that can be set by from a page or
should some php be changed?

Thanks,
   Strainu

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[Wikitech-l] How to submit a patch for Mediawiki extensions?

[Strainu]

I'm sure that it's written somewhere on Mediawiki.org or on meta, but I
can't get hold of the information right now. Can somebody help me?

Thanks,
  Andrei
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Rollback feature

[Strainu]

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Michael Rosenthal <
rosenthal3...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, that is the behavior which should be there.
>
>
Right. Thanks for the help, will be more careful from now on :)
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[Wikitech-l] Rollback feature

[Strainu]

Hi,

Is the rollback feature available to sysops MEANT to remove all the
consecutive contributions of a certain user? Shouldn't it erase just the
latest change?

Here is an example:
http://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Facultatea_de_Mecanic%C4%83_a_Universit%C4%83%C5%A3ii_%E2%80%9EPolitehnica%E2%80%9D_din_Timi%C5%9Foara&action=history(the
changes marked with "Revenire
la ultima modificare..." are made using this feature). You can see that it
reverted 2 or 3 versions back.

Thanks,
 Strainu
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Strainu]

Hi,

First of all sorry for the many typos from last night's mail. Glad to see
the message went along. :)

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Chad  wrote:

> Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
> just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
> as it is.


Well, in my view, the benefit will be the ability to use Wikipedia logins
for linked projects. I have at least two use-cases in mind:
1. A local chapter's website/blog/whatever.
2. Sensitive tools that would require login. One such example would be
WikiVerifier [1], an anti-vandal tool used on the Romanian Wikipedia

It makes sense for the user to use the same credentials for all projects
linked to Wikipedia, not only the ones created by the foundation. For the
3rd party programmers the advantage would be the credibility - users would
be sure that their password won't go to the wrong hands.

[1] [ro] http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiVerifier

Regards,
  Andrei Cipu
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[Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Strainu]

Hi

Are there any plans to make Wikipedia a opneID provider? I would really be
interesting if we could log on to wikipedia-replated sites with the same ID.

Thanks,
  Andrei Cipu
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