evdplancke;688194 Wrote:
I am using Audioengine a2 active speakers for both SBT and my PC.
When I use cat7 cable to the SBT and the PC jack is plugged in the a2,
then I hear the Ethernet traffic in the speakers (exactly as the switch
led was replaced by a kid of buzzer, even when the PC is
It's going to be a long journey...
First you need to the room measurements. You will need Audiolense (or
siimilar), a good mic with a Flat response between 20hz and 15khz, a
good mic stand, and a suspension mount for the mic. Then you need a
USB interface for your PC like the one you already
TheOctavist;688257 Wrote:
the only tt options i am using...disable analog out, wireless off, and
vollock.everything else is logitech(including screen being
on).but... no differences in a dbt session btw this and stocklinear
psu or without...no difference.
This is hard to believe,
Correct,
One should regard that individually; set same attitude TT-3 as
TheOctavist and nevertheless to me and some of my friends we hear
marginal sound differences with loudspeaker however nearly no
differences with headphones with a direct comparison with a second
Logitech-SBT (both with
Soundman;688307 Wrote:
This is hard to believe, because we did a DBT with five people -
comparing stock SBT and SBT with full TT3 (but Logitech priorities and
buffer 2). Each and everyone was able to hear the difference every
time, without failure! So from the results of this test and
chill;688311 Wrote:
How long did it take in your testing? Was it an instantly noticeable
effect, were you listening to complete (say, 3 minute) tracks each
time, or did it take half an hour of continuous playing in each
configuration?
First we listened several songs with each device to get
On 2 Feb 2012, at 15:36, cliveb wrote:
cunobelinus;688073 Wrote:
You can transfer a 45 minute LP in 15 minutes? That's a neat trick.
Surely TheLastMan means that it takes an extra 15 mins on top of the
time to do the actual recording.
Clearly, in which case by setting his figure of 15
Everything is possible, but nothing is real, Living Colour, Type
HumanMedia;688251 Wrote:
What is obvious is also subjective and may be completely contrary
depending on which viewpoint you hold.
This might apply to personal opinions and beliefs. The benefit (and for
some folks obviously
Further to my initial tests, where I preferred a buffer value of 9200
with TT3.0. I now find that I get results through audio out similar to
my Arcam Delta 70.2 CD player with flip-flop mod, if I set the buffer
to 1 and disable thread priority and kernel mods by commenting out
lines in the
On 2 Feb 2012, at 18:33, TheLastMan wrote:
cunobelinus;688073 Wrote:
Automatic track division tends to be very dodgy indeed with classical -
the bulk of my music. I'll try VinylStudio again and see if it works
now, but it certainly didn't last time.
You are right, track breaks tend to be
Soundman;688316 Wrote:
First we listened several songs with each device to get used to the
sound. Then, for the test, we switched back and forth after rather
short times (10 secs up to 1 minute). The effect was instantly
noticeable. And in the end we all agreed that we prefer the sound with
SBGK;688182 Wrote:
Soundcheck,
you have completely transformed my listening experience via the TT2.0
mods and then TT3.0, keep up the good work, I am sure there are a lot
of people supporting you. The fact that you are annoying people who are
loathe to experiment, but have a theory for
chill;688324 Wrote:
And all this was done 'double blind'?
Correct
--
Soundman
Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3
View this thread:
Gazjam;688326 Wrote:
Question for the guys who are demanding Soundcheck prove his no claims
made contribution to the Community and be honest ;)
You running TT3 with your Touch setup?
Of course I am using TT3 with my Touch.
I also put the Touch in a wooden box (using hand-selcetd
Gazjam;688326 Wrote:
You running TT3 with your Touch setup?
Nope.
Justification?
1) Wifi, touch screen, radio stations with variable sample rates -
these are all valuable features to me.
2) I'm running Toslink into a separate DAC, and have never heard a
difference between any digital
cunobelinus;688319 Wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 15:36, cliveb wrote:
Assuming you're using a decent modern soundcard its noise floor will
be
so far below that of the vinyl that you have heaps of headroom
available. Therefore you can afford to be very conservative when
setting levels and
On 3 Feb 2012, at 12:22, cliveb wrote:
Well, just because the music is well-recorded classical does not alter
the fact that vinyl LPs have a maximum dynamic range around the 60dB
mark - perhaps 70dB for a pristine audiophile pressing with a
following wind.
Modern soundcards routinely
cliveb;688331 Wrote:
Well, just because the music is well-recorded classical does not alter
the fact that vinyl LPs have a maximum dynamic range around the 60dB
mark - perhaps 70dB for a pristine audiophile pressing with a
following wind.
Modern soundcards routinely achieve noise floors
It's not as flexible as the foobar ABX app, but ages ago Malcolm Wotton
posted a nice little Perl plugin for comparing WAV vs. FLAC, and I
think the later version also compared MP3. Someone may be able to adapt
it to other comparisons.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21545
--
I almost exclusively listen to mysqueezebox.com through my Transporter,
A few months back I purchased a pair of Audio Note P4 monoblocs.
Decided to listen to some streams via the PC just to see if there was a
difference in sound quality and here is this popping in the highs
again?
Has anyone
Soundman;688316 Wrote:
First we listened several songs with each device to get used to the
sound. Then, for the test, we switched back and forth after rather
short times (10 secs up to 1 minute). The effect was instantly
noticeable. And in the end we all agreed that we prefer the sound with
Q-Sound has some interesting technology that produces a truly realistic
3D soundfield.
http://www.qsound.com/index.htm
You can google some albums that use this technology
Amused to Death by Roger Waters is one that I frequently listen too.
--
mashley
1. how is transporter connected to server (ethernet or wifi)
2. how is transporter connected to amp/preamp (rca, digital out,
balanced out)
3. OS of server, how is server connected to router (ethernet or wifi)
4. if ethernet, cat5, cat5e, cat6, cat 7?
A basic test, which you've done it seems,
also, some odd issues with transporter can be solved with:
1. remove power to transporter
2. point remote at transporter, holding down the 1 key
3. while doing 2 above, restore power to transporter
display on transporter will note it is doing reset, and then you can
stop pressing 1 key
--
Using cat7 for anything at home is not recommended. This cable has low
damping even up to 1GHz.
Of cause this cable can transport ultra high-speed data but the other
way around also can transport HF garbage much better! This cable is
really meant for profesional cabling with serious grounding.
superbonham;688329 Wrote:
Of course I am using TT3 with my Touch.
I also put the Touch in a wooden box (of handpicked bubinga) lined with
blanket fish skin (very exclusive).
To even further improve the listening experience I am wearing a tin
foil hat (see
TheLastMan;688345 Wrote:
One of the facilities of VinylStudio is that it counts clips in your
recording as you go along.
Of course once the signal is digitised, there is no way to know for
sure if it has been clipped - all you can do is apply some kind of rule
such as 4 or more consecutive
mashley;688353 Wrote:
Q-Sound has some interesting technology that produces a truly realistic
3D soundfield.
http://www.qsound.com/index.htm
You can google some albums that use this technology
Amused to Death by Roger Waters is one that I frequently listen too.
It is impressive but in
Gazjam;688373 Wrote:
loosten your sphincter, you'll live longer :)
Thanks for the anatomical tip. Also got one for you: ever thought about
breast or butt implants made of your own brain tissue? Your life will be
a lot easier if not distracted by thinking :)
Gazjam;688373 Wrote:
Was a
superbonham;688388 Wrote:
Thanks for the anatomical tip. Also got one for you: ever thought about
breast or butt implants made of your own brain tissue? Your life will
be a lot easier if not distracted by thinking :)
No. Should I?
Don't know why, but I kinda foresee an answer along
cunobelinus;688085 Wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 13:50, Jeff Flowerday wrote:
Down to what hz can you actually hear at 8ft?
Hearing is the least of it at these pitches. It's not the only sense
involved. Profound bass is primarily felt. However, the answer to the
question is about 12-14Hz.
cliveb;688379 Wrote:
Of course once the signal is digitised, there is no way to know for sure
if it has been clippedTrue. However I am usually aware of when the clipping
takes place and a
pretty good idea where in the track it is.
I have never let a recording go grossly into clipping. If
Gazjam;688390 Wrote:
Sorry, I've no idea what you just said.
Dont bother re-explaining though.
Can i ask how old you are?
41. Why?
Was a genuine question btw, did you try one of the tweaks I suggested?
--
superbonham
Phil Leigh;688164 Wrote:
you need to study the very long thread that starts with this post...
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=532485postcount=1
I can ty and help you, but I only use Audiolense to do my measurements
and creat the convolution file.
It's a world of pain to get
TiredLegs;688202 Wrote:
Also, the fact that your speakers are specified to 40 Hz does not mean
that they have zero output below that frequency, it just means that the
output below that frequency is reduced below whatever threshold they use
in their spec. (The response falloff isn't
Gazjam;688373 Wrote:
loosten your sphincter, you'll live longer :)
Was a genuine question btw, DO you use TT3 with your Touch?
So just in case this might be a misunderstanding due to differences in
language: translating the above statement into my native language would
give a very rude insult
chill;688330 Wrote:
Nope.
Justification?
1) Wifi, touch screen, radio stations with variable sample rates -
these are all valuable features to me.
2) I'm running Toslink into a separate DAC, and have never heard a
difference between any digital sources.
An interesting thing
totoro;688266 Wrote:
If the person behaves like a troll, pointing it out isn't an unwarranted
attack. Reality isn't optional
In your opinion, of course.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile:
TheOctavist;688162 Wrote:
id love that, sure many others would too.
would help the SNR here...
who are the heavy hitting developers I could propose this to?
What would be the point, now that we've established that there exist no
audible differences between stock SBT and SBT with TT3.0
totoro;688266 Wrote:
If the person behaves like a troll, pointing it out isn't an unwarranted
attack. Reality isn't optional
Especially, one might think, if the troll in question had identified
himself as a troll in an earlier post which described itself (half
accurately) as sophisticated
superbonham;688402 Wrote:
So just in case this might be a misunderstanding due to differences in
language: translating the above statement into my native language would
give a very rude insult and would make me wonder about your age
actually.
Whoa easy there fella...
Apologies if your
superbonham;688349 Wrote:
Any suggestion on how to set up a blind test for these (and similar)
settings is appreciated.
I'm especially interested about ways to blind the switching of
sources. I would think that usually requires software doing the
switching, or some customized hardware,
It might be surprising that the low A on a piano is 27.5 hz
--
pski
real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is
truly the Golden Age of Wireless
pski's Profile:
Gazjam;688411 Wrote:
I'm all for simple and cheap tweaks that work, but putting the Touch in
a wooden box and wearing a tinfoil hat is fucking stupid. ;)
Indeed. As is tweaking a TCP/IP server (i.e the computer running LMS)
in the expectation that it will improve sound quality. Those who
darrell;688422 Wrote:
Indeed. As is tweaking a TCP/IP server (i.e the computer running LMS) in
the expectation that it will improve sound quality. Those who genuinely
don't understand how computer networking works might believe that this
is more plausible than the tinfoil hat and wooden box,
Are there issues when two touches are playing different songs. One touch
being sound touch 3 Ethernet and the other wireless on the same server?
--
jmschnur
Joel
jmschnur's Profile:
jmschnur;688430 Wrote:
Are there issues when two touches are playing different songs. One touch
being sound touch 3 Ethernet and the other wireless on the same server?
What kind of issues?
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd
adamdea;688408 Wrote:
Especially, one might think, if the troll in question had identified
himself as a troll in an earlier post which described itself (half
accurately) as sophisticated trolling.
Who could do that and then say that calling him a troll was an
unwarranted attack?
aubuti;688418 Wrote:
I'm especially interested about ways to blind the switching of
sources. I would think that usually requires software doing the
switching, or some customized hardware, especially to allow for the
possibility of _not_ changing the source sometimes (eg, ABAB ABAA
BABB).
ralphpnj;688432 Wrote:
I don't believe that is a troll in the most common usage of the term
with respect to internet forums. What he does is play devil's advocate,
in that he does not make personal attacks but rather just posts a
contrary opinion in order to stir the pot and more importantly
Phil Leigh;688434 Wrote:
as John Lennon said gimme some truth... Life's too short to play
games. I don't mind MCR, I just wish he'd check his internet persona at
the door and communicate properly.
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of
pski;688419 Wrote:
It might be surprising that the low A on a piano is 27.5 hz
Surprising to whom? Piano players?
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
View
FWIW, more DBT testing today with several other members.
we all failed miserably(different group of folks, other than me)
I simply do not believe anyone who says they pass/identify a proper DBT
comparing these things..
if none of the 10+ mensch that participated here with me could ID
Hey...could someone adapt this and make it an A/B/X setup?/?
I would REALLY like an ABX app for SBT.
infinitely useful..
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(stock(TT failed dbt)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell
0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due
VentiLink Audio
ralphpnj;688432 Wrote:
I don't believe that is a troll in the most common usage of the term
with respect to internet forums. What he does is play devil's advocate,
in that he does not make personal attacks but rather just posts a
contrary opinion in order to stir the pot and more importantly
magiccarpetride;688442 Wrote:
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of authority, as I'm sure you know already.
And also, not everything that is official at a certain moment stays
official for long.
You know what I mean... No need to
magiccarpetride;688443 Wrote:
Surprising to whom? Piano players?
I think he means people like SBGK whose systems roll off at well above
that...
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU
vett93;687276 Wrote:
My theory is that the weakest link in the system will limit the sound.
However, good modern electronics can be had for a few $Ks. But good
speakers usually cost more than that. So the speakers would meed more
investment than any piece of the electronics.
This is
magiccarpetride;688451 Wrote:
This is assuming that the quality of speakers increases proportionally
with their price tag. Which is not my experience, not at all.
To me, this is similar to asking what's more important for preparing a
great meal: quality ingredients, or quality pots and
Phil Leigh;688449 Wrote:
You know what I mean... No need to play games forever!
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend,
exploring things and turning every stone on the path may look like
playing games... You are the official guardian of the official way of
thinking, the
Phil Leigh;688452 Wrote:
Quite, so one needs to start with a decent recording/mastering... If you
don't start with that, all bets are off!
All right, but assuming that to be the case -- assuming that we start
from a decent recording/mastering (not such an unrealistic assumption,
non?). Now
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
magiccarpetride;688456 Wrote:
All right, but assuming that to be the case -- assuming that we start
from a decent recording/mastering (not such an unrealistic assumption,
non?). Now what would be more important: the ingredients (i.e. the
'freshness' of digital bits that are being clocked and
Phil Leigh;688458 Wrote:
Well, when playing your vintage guitars (of which I have a few too )...
How much attention do you pay to the plectrum/pick?
Excellent question: I pay enormous attention to picks, as they make or
break my performance.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride;688460 Wrote:
Excellent question: I pay enormous attention to picks, as they make or
break my performance.
Exactly. So armed with a decent recording guitar) and a good pick
(speakers) and a good amp(digital player) then what's next, guitar
leadamplifier)?... Ther you go. The
Phil Leigh;688462 Wrote:
Exactly. So armed with a decent recording guitar) and a good pick
(speakers) and a good amp(digital player) then what's next, guitar
leadamplifier)?... Ther you go. The only thing we haven't covered is
your ears/brain...
Please don't cover them, I won't be able to
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
.
But I'm not expecting you to be in a position to grasp that. Whsh!
no need to repost mcr's nonsense yet again.
Phil Leigh;688457 Wrote:
Thanks for the psychedelic bollocks...
And it will take way more than you've got to whoosh me,
Phil, now I'm
I often read reviews that claim speakers disappeared in the room. My
interpretation is that they couldn't tell the sound were directly from
the speakers. I'd like to hear comments on this subject.
On my main system, I can hear sound directly from the speakers. The
center image is very clear for
Phil Leigh;688431 Wrote:
What kind of issues?
Is the sound quality of the touch tool 3 affected by the simultaneous
playing of the 2nd touch on the same server?
--
jmschnur
Joel
jmschnur's Profile:
Yes, I use one myself to very good effect, the Behringer ultramatch Deq
24/96.
Anyone that thinks this is horse shit plainly hasn't listened to one.
I listen via a pair of Audio Note P4 monoblocs, with ESL63's. I have
modified it somewhat as per Lampizator.
ralphpnj;688466 Wrote:
I still think that if magiccarpetride would put the games aside for
awhile he might actually have some worthwhile information and ideas to
contribute. But then again, maybe not.
I think, maybe not. If it is all an attempt at a joke, it still betrays
that condescending,
I had a pair of BW 601's and they were superb little speakers and I had
much the same experience as you.
It wasn't until I changed to Magnepan MMG's and then Quad ESL63's that
I could get them to entirely disappear it depends on the recording as
to where the instruments are placed.
YMMV
--
jmschnur;688469 Wrote:
Is the sound quality of the touch tool 3 affected by the simultaneous
playing of the 2nd touch on the same server?
Not in my house.
Guido F.
--
guidof
MUSIC ROOM:
Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge-Conrad Johnson
Motif preamp
Oppo BDP-83 Universal
As long as your network speed is adequate (and there's no reason why it
shouldn't be), I'd say no difference. If for some reason the network
was not up to it, you'll get pauses in playback as rebuffering occurs.
Try it and see.
--
darrell
quote/
I'd like to hear comments on this subject.
unquote/
At 17 K a pair they should do more than just disappear
--
castalla
1 Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers - 2
duff ears - purfek!
1 Logitech Radio + remote - purfek!
magiccarpetride;688442 Wrote:
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of authority, as I'm sure you know already.
And also, not everything that is official at a certain moment stays
official for long.
Tiresome pseudo-intellectual
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
Gazjam;688411 Wrote:
Whoa easy there fella...
Apologies if your native language isn't English, the comment was meant
light heartedly.(hence the smiley)
That's the problem of a foreign language not well enough spoken - one
just does not get the subtleties. So please accept my apologies if I
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:33, darrell wrote:
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:14, Phil Leigh wrote:
magiccarpetride;688443 Wrote:
Surprising to whom? Piano players?
I think he means people like SBGK whose systems roll off at well above
that...
Much more likely that than piano players, don't you think? They'd all know, and
most soloists
A good bottle of Scotch ?
--
castalla
1 Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers - 2
duff ears - purfek!
1 Logitech Radio + remote - purfek!
castalla's Profile:
What if one were to run some double blind tests (dbts)using only blind
people. Would the results be different for them since their other
senses may well be heightened, particularly their hearing. I'm not
really serious about actually running such a test but I think it makes
for an intriguing
mashley;688470 Wrote:
Yes, I use one myself to very good effect, the Behringer ultramatch Deq
24/96.
Anyone that thinks this is horse shit plainly hasn't listened to one.
I listen via a pair of Audio Note P4 monoblocs, with ESL63's. I have
modified it somewhat as per Lampizator.
Thanks Gary,
I'm about to try your suggestions.
--
mashley
mashley's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36549
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82558
mashley;688487 Wrote:
Thanks Gary,
Had my stats checked out and upgraded at the same time, hence no probs
there.
I was thinking PC problems myself, will re-install and see how that
goes.
Have you tried simply doing a full shut down and restart on the
computer/server running LMS/SBS. I
mashley;688487 Wrote:
Thanks Gary,
Had my stats checked out and upgraded at the same time, hence no probs
there.
Just performed Transporter reset - it displayed Programming Xilinx?
Will see how this goes now.
I was originally thinking PC problems myself, will re-install if the
above
cunobelinus;688482 Wrote:
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:14, Phil Leigh wrote:
magiccarpetride;688443 Wrote:
Surprising to whom? Piano players?
I think he means people like SBGK whose systems roll off at well
above
that...
Much more likely that than piano players, don't you think?
I agree with you here
The plural of anecdote is not data ;)
--
Gazjam
Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322
magiccarpetride;688443 Wrote:
Surprising to whom? Piano players?
Actually, no.
My population there would me more like people who understand what a hz
is.
As you can see, piano players know better.
p
--
pski
real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is
truly the
darrell;688475 Wrote:
As long as your network speed is adequate (and there's no reason why it
shouldn't be), I'd say no difference. If for some reason the network
was not up to it, you'll get pauses in playback as rebuffering occurs.
Try it and see.
You fight an impossible argument.
By
pski;688492 Wrote:
Actually, no.
My population there would me more like people who understand what a hz
is.
As you can see, piano players know better.
p
I'd be surprised if piano players ever stopped to think what's the hz
of the note they just played.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride;688495 Wrote:
I'd be surprised if piano players ever stopped to think what's the hz of
the note they just played.
Prepare to be surprised !
Read up on this thread !
There was once a proposal for a new diacritical mark. It was called the
interobang and was the combination of
vett93;688468 Wrote:
I often read reviews that claim speakers disappeared in the room. My
interpretation is that they couldn't tell the sound were directly from
the speakers. I'd like to hear comments on this subject.
On my main system, I can hear sound directly from the speakers. The
Gazjam;688493 Wrote:
The plural of anecdote is not data ;)
Ha! Good one!
--
chill
chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839
View this thread:
ralphpnj;688488 Wrote:
Have you tried simply doing a full shut down and restart on the
computer/server running LMS/SBS. I know it may sound stupid but
sometimes the simple things get overlooked. Recently my Touch appeared
to having trouble playing some files, as in the files played but the
pski;688496 Wrote:
Prepare to be surprised !
Read up on this thread !
There was once a proposal for a new diacritical mark. It was called the
interobang and was the combination of an exclamation point and a
question mark. Here's what it meant to imply:
WTF?
I really think the idea
cunobelinus;688481 Wrote:
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:33, darrell wrote:
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend,
exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the
magiccarpetride;688500 Wrote:
OK, good thing it's Friday, and you have the entire weekend ahead of
you. Take it easy, get a lot of rest, drink a lot of liquids, and in
general, relax and recuperate. We'll see you on Monday, and I'm sure
the buzzing in your head will all get cleared up by
SBGK;688509 Wrote:
Phil,
I am interested in getting some ferrites to try and reduce any rfi
coming into my laptop, router, ethernet etc. You said you had used them
for a no of years and I wondered if you have any recommendations for
which ones to get and how to deploy them or is it just
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