There's nothing remotely dumb about using subs in mono. It just depends
on your needs.
Almost all sound in the the 20-40hz octave is in mono in the CD format.
So, if your sub is trolling off your main speakers -- ie, you are
letting your mains run their full range and just adding on the subs --
Actually, a major reason for firing them downwards is that it is an
effective way of absorbing higher frequencies.
I use ACI Force subs. Two of them, but not in stereo. I have them
crossed over at 45hz (below 40 it's mostly mono, anyway, and using them
summed gets you a bit more gain).
They
highdudgeon Wrote:
Did I mention they are reasonably priced, well-built, and discrete?
Yes, you did. But you didn't mention how reasonable! How much did you
pay?
--
zooropa320
2 Channel Setup: SB3 * Benchmark DAC1 * Classé Audio DR-15 mono blocks *
Magnepan MG 3.5Rs * REL Strata III
I think retail is around seven hundred or so. I got mine used. One was
a steal at $425 and another somewhat less so at $500.
--
highdudgeon
highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195
jonheal Wrote:
I think that extended listening to a pure 16Hz tone without the
accompaning harmonics would probably melt your brain, or at least drive
you batty.
Very low tones are used in some crowd-control weapons systems -
Frequencies around 10-12 Hz tend to induce fear and panic in
A test tone at twenty cycles, at volume and for enough time to take a
few measurements with an SPL meter leaves me feeling sick.
--
highdudgeon
highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195
Skunk Wrote:
If you hooked up two subs in mono you'd be... dumb.
Guess I'm dumb! Not really, but I have 2 subs in mono. The reason is,
I had an 8 quasi-sub (-3db @ 35Hz) to pair with my small speakers - I
was crossing it over at 100Hz. The system sounded great on the long
wall of a small,
pfarrell Wrote:
Hmmm, an old pot belly would be a sleeper, and might have enough
internal volume, round and the obvious place to put the driver
is the bottom pointing down.
Why do people design subs with the driver pointed down? Wouldn't it
make them slower to return from driver
Skunk wrote:
Why do people design subs with the driver pointed down? Wouldn't it
make them slower to return from driver excursions, again I suppose it
doesn't matter if you're reproducing explosions mostly. I'm not saying
you think it's the ideal situation Pat, I just noticed you brought it
Perhaps this may also enhance the floor shaking
effect for home theatre subs.
My first sub was down-firing. It was cheap and
didn't have a lot of output, but it was easy to
control.
My current sub is front-firing but down-ported,
which is a bit unusual. It has much, much greater
output
pfarrell Wrote:
Several vendors talk about 'servo control' which
I take to mean some formal feedback control that
applies corrective power to the voicecoil to make it
have better control.
Funny you mention that. I think servo control would be impossible with
downfiring woofers, but I
pfarrell Wrote:
I would expect (again pure speculation) that the
impact of gravity is pretty modest.
I read somewhere recently that gravity does have some effect, because
over time, the magnet assembly will begin to sag. I'm not sure if
this affects the sound significantly.
As for my new
I have been a fan of subwoofers way before they were part of the audio
mainstream and I agree with the non-localization of competently
designed subwoofers crossed over in the lowbass/ midbass range. A
couple of reasons why a subwoofer can be localized are: a shallow
low-pass crossover filter that
vdorta Wrote:
I have been a fan of subwoofers way before they were part of the audio
mainstream and I agree with the non-localization of competently
designed subwoofers crossed over in the lowbass/ midbass range. A
couple of reasons why a subwoofer can be localized are: a shallow
low-pass
Skunk said the following on 01/29/2006 08:07 PM:
vdorta Wrote:
I agree with the non-localization of competently designed subwoofers
crossed over in the lowbass/ midbass range.
Then I won't try to convince you otherwise. This guy has equipment
similar to yours, and liked (bliss) the
Robin Bowes Wrote:
Skunk said the following on 01/29/2006 08:07 PM:
vdorta Wrote:
I agree with the non-localization of competently designed
subwoofers
crossed over in the lowbass/ midbass range.
Then I won't try to convince you otherwise. This guy has equipment
similar to
Skunk Wrote:
This guy has equipment similar to yours, and liked (bliss) the effect
of two subs, which I'm not even sure were in stereo:
http://www.10audio.com/rel_strat3.htm
Have you heard Kodo's Mondo Head SACD? I've read that good engineers
(which I do not claim to be) let individual
zooropa320 Wrote:
I really like the different wood options on those SVS subs. Big plus on
the WAF vs. my big black Paradigm PS-1200. If they look good and sound
good then what more can you ask for? Which model do you have Dan?
I have the 16-46 PC-Plus. Since it's cylindrical it uses a
vdorta Wrote:
I haven't heard the SACD, but I doubt I can hear stereo at 40Hz.
All I can say is that if you are happy, I'm happy.
I've provided plenty of references for anyone who cares to 'drink'.
--
Skunk
Skunk's
Skunk, I'm just curious about something. If you had stereo subs, how
would you connect them in your system? I'm currently running my SB3
directly into an amp that happens to have RCA line thru jacks, so
that's then sent to my sub. So, technically, I could hook up two subs
to my system, but I'm
ezkcdude Wrote:
Skunk, I'm just curious about something. If you had stereo subs, how
would you connect them in your system? I'm currently running my SB3
directly into an amp that happens to have RCA line thru jacks, so
that's then sent to my sub. So, technically, I could hook up two subs
to
Any sub you chose will be a compromise between
Price/Performance/WAF/Your tastes/and What your looking for. It has to
sound good to you in your living room.
Since no one has mentioned SVS subs, I will. After many auditions of
other brands were unsatisfying, I bought a 12 w/525w built-in amp
I really like the different wood options on those SVS subs. Big plus on
the WAF vs. my big black Paradigm PS-1200. If they look good and sound
good then what more can you ask for? Which model do you have Dan?
--
zooropa320
Audio gear: SB3 * Denon AVR-3802 * McIntosh MC-2120 * Paradigm
ezkcdude wrote:
Yeah, I didn't really think that one out. Maybe I could find an old cast
iron stove, and convert it into a subwoofer!
Hmmm, an old pot belly would be a sleeper, and might have enough
internal volume, round and the obvious place to put the driver
is the bottom pointing down.
An
Yep, just like this one, eh? And if you want to heat something up, just
mount the plate amp on top!
+---+
|Filename: pot2.jpg |
|Download:
Skunk wrote:
pfarrell Wrote:
If you want to believe that two sources is important for frequency
reproduction of sounds below 40 Hz, I see no point in further
discussion.
I won't argue that. But do you cross your subs over at 40Hz?
I have one sub. Crossed over about 45 or 50 hz.
I haven't
I was recently at a friend's house auditioning his Outlaw Audio LFM-1.
This unit is rated flat to 25Hz. We listened to a variety of music and
also to test tones.
My friend had the subwoofer positioned behind and to the right of us. I
believe he had it crossed-over at 80, or perhaps 100Hz. When
jonheal wrote:
My friend had the subwoofer positioned behind and to the right of us. I
believe he had it crossed-over at 80, or perhaps 100Hz.
That is up in midrange area, so it isn't surprizing that
you could locate it.
Playing test tones was interesting. Unless they've heard a test disc, I
I got the Dayton 10 today, and put it together. I must be lame, because
it took me a few hours. Figuring out the spikes took about 30 minutes.
Installing amp took at least 30 minutes, because the damn thing didn't
mount completely flush. I finally settled for it not being perfect, but
it is
What's missing from this discussion is a sense of proportionality, not
seeing the forest for the trees. We could go back and forth all day,
for several days, about theoretical ideals while the practical
realities dictate a different perspective. Unless one has an unlimited
budget, we must make
Skunk Wrote:
PS. Thanks for the pics ezkcdude, but no more por favor! I meant I
wanted to see your veneer work, after seeing your DIY's, but didn't
realize it was textured plastic this time.
That's how the cabinet comes in the kit! Sheesh, you think I'd do that?
Actually, it looks kind of
Yeah, I didn't really think that one out. Maybe I could find an old cast
iron stove, and convert it into a subwoofer!
And...no...that's an alarm clock. Those speakers (sadly) are at my
parent's place in Cali.
--
ezkcdude
Is that a SB2 on top of the left speaker?
--
Skunk
Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20197
Skunk said the following on 01/26/2006 01:05 AM:
Or what about the obligatory recommendation for stereo subs? Maybe you
can build a second one to match when you've got the spare money.
Lf sound is omni-directional so you there's no such thing as stereo
subs. Sure, you can use two, but you won't
Robin Bowes wrote:
Skunk said the following on 01/26/2006 01:05 AM:
Or what about the obligatory recommendation for stereo subs? Maybe you
can build a second one to match when you've got the spare money.
Lf sound is omni-directional so you there's no such thing as stereo
subs. Sure, you can
If you're an audiophile it matters... A single sub, especially if not
placed directly beteen the two mains, will pull the stereo image
towards it.
Two subs will give a smoother bass respponse, and a more true to life
stereo image, if you needed a sub in the first place that is.
--
Skunk
Skunk wrote:
If you're an audiophile it matters... A single sub, especially if not
placed directly beteen the two mains, will pull the stereo image
towards it.
Two subs will give a smoother bass respponse, and a more true to life
stereo image, if you needed a sub in the first place that is.
Pat,
Can you explain what you mean by used only as a sub, and not as a
general woofer?
Does this have to do mostly with what frequency range you send it?
If you just have front l/r monitors that go 40-20 and a sub does that
mean you're using the sub as a general woofer and only having one could
joncourage wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by used only as a sub, and not as a
general woofer?
Does this have to do mostly with what frequency range you send it?
Yes, and the frequency response of the other speakers.
In the olden days, speakers had woofers and went down at least
unto
This just comes down to crossover setting. At the extreme, if you set
your crossover at some high level like 120hz, then you will definitely
localize the sub. The sub is performing just like the woofers in
full-range speakers. Placing the sub behind the listening position or
anywhere other
I think it may be useful for me to discuss why I felt I needed a
subwoofer, and how I will use it in my system.
My 2-way speakers (which are DIY) are great in the frequency range that
they are audible. I did a test the other day with the Stereophile Test
CD bass warble tone. I could clearly
pfarrell Wrote:
Skunk wrote:
Two subs will give a smoother bass respponse
On the mailing list, it isn't clear what you are replying to,
but your wording seems a bit alarmist.
Sorry to be vague and alarming, it was mostly directed at you- as Robin
will likely continue to believe
Skunk wrote:
There are a plethora of ways stereo subs beat mono, on almost any
speaker. Even full rangers that 'do' 20 hz can benefit from the
adjustability of a seperate subwoofer cabinet. What if the best imaging
comes from speaker placement that excites too many/not enough bass
modes? Time to
Skunk said the following on 01/26/2006 11:21 PM:
Sorry to be vague and alarming, it was mostly directed at you- as Robin
will likely continue to believe there is no such thing as stereo bass
until the day he dies.
Sorry, are you living in a parallel universe where the laws of physics
are
I have no plans to build stereo subs. I believe that your perception of
directionality (or stereo) is due to room excitation (resonance). If
you were sitting blindfolded in an olympic sized swimming pool
(obviouslyunfilled), and a sub was placed 10 or 20 feet from you in
any direction, and a
pfarrell Wrote:
Humans are highly sensitive to
location for high frequencies, mostly due to the
shading caused by the head/distance between ears.
I'm sorry Pat, but that makes absolutely no physiological sense. What
is 'shading', I should ask. Humans are highly sensitive to localized
Skunk wrote:
pfarrell Wrote:
Humans are highly sensitive to
location for high frequencies, mostly due to the
shading caused by the head/distance between ears.
I'm sorry Pat, but that makes absolutely no physiological sense. What
is 'shading', I should ask. Humans are highly sensitive to
pfarrell Wrote:
Making them youself really does open up the possibilities.
A few years ago there was an audiophile article on a guy
who put the subwoofer in the basement, and had eight or so
15+ inch drivers, The sound came up thru a furnace grate.
Something normal people could afford:
jazzfan,
What's the difference in looks between the vtf2 and the stf2? They're
both 19x14x18 black boxes.
The spikes look different...
http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1879_205476
http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1879_351509
-Dan
--
dwc
Just wanted to repeat that I ended up buying the 10 Dayton Titanic kit
from Parts Express. I will post some pics (because Skunk said he's
interested) and thoughts in this thread after I break it in. Thanks,
everyone for all the comments/advice/suggestions.
--
ezkcdude
dwc Wrote:
jazzfan,
What's the difference in looks between the vtf2 and the stf2? They're
both 19x14x18 black boxes.
The spikes look different...
http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1879_205476
http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1879_351509
-Dan
The STF
I'd like to see the cabinets when you're done- you should repost.
--
Skunk
Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20197
Skunk Wrote:
I'd like to see the cabinets when you're done- you should repost.
I'll do that.
Here's another question, though. I think this has been discussed
somewhere else, but can I use the analog outputs from the SB3 to send
to the sub, and simultaneously use the coaxial output for my DAC?
ezkcdude Wrote:
Yes, another recommendation thread, but evidently there hasn't been one
specifically for subs. I want a highly musical sub, don't care about
explosions, special fx, etc., because I already have a sub for that. I
need a sub that will blend in nicely with my 2-way's that go
Another HSU owner here. VTF-3 MK2.
--
dwc
dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20197
My mains are Meadowlark Kestrel II's.
I would say that the VTF-3 is musical, as it blends very well with the
mains. It extends the low end and punch in the room without otherwise
being noticed. It's tight and accurate. I will add as a caveat that
the box itself is pretty large. I have it
Servo control ie REL
--
Skunk
Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20197
___
I've owned two Hsu subs, the now cancelled ASW-1201 automotive sub and
the VTF-2 (the original one, not the current, much prettier, Mk.2
version). The only complaint I've ever had about them was that they're
both ugly as sin. It looks like with the new wood finishes and slightly
different box
I own a Paradigm PS-1200 which is quite large (bordering massive!)and a
good value for the money IMO. Here are the specs:
http://tinyurl.com/psbw
I'm happy with it but can't compare to anything else for you except to
say I like it much better than the Energy sub it replaced.
--
zooropa320
zooropa320 Wrote:
I own a Paradigm PS-1200 which is quite large (bordering massive!)and a
good value for the money IMO. Here are the specs:
http://tinyurl.com/psbw
I'm happy with it but can't compare to anything else for you except to
say I like it much better than the Energy sub it
How about the Outlaw Audio LFM-1?
--
jonheal
Jon Heal says:
Have a nice day!
http://www.theheals.org/
jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133
View this thread:
Get a used Vandersteen 2W. I got mine for $500 (it retails for $1200)
and couldn't be happier. Bass is deep and very fast. Excellent for
jazz. Not your typical flabby home theater sub. This one was designed
specifically for music.
Check Audiogon for good deals on this model.
Luck!
Crooner
--
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