Interesting. Now, the text as presented is an email that is being forwarded around, or is it the text of what is being sent out by the alert service? Cause the link Gel sent wasn't good, but hey, I thought, it's an alert...
So there is in fact legislation but it probably won't pass? That's a relie
Snopes on the draft hubub.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp
-Kevin
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no problem I'll just send you the bill for the tutorial in the morning.
larry
> >First consider this, there were somewhat more nations involved in the second
>>world war other than the US (which at times is a typical American response -
>>no insult intended its just a typical attitude I've notic
thx,
so far I'm not sure. I just spent the laat hour and a half ferret
proofing the comfy chair in the computer room. The ferrets decided to
rip open the bottom on the bottom of that chair and so instant
upholstery repair.
sigh, and I was hoping to just hang out in the back and drink tonight.
that's a genuine conscientious objector. If you won't serve as medic, your objection isn't that you think killing is wrong, it's that you are scared to go, period.
Dana
>The ones that have always amazed me were those conscientious objectors who
>did serve as front line medics or in similar positi
If this is in answer to me, money is not the issue.
Dana
>Remember also, they serve and with the GI bill and other stuff they mostly
>get college paid for. There are a lot of advantages in serving.
>
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what's an unconstitutional war? As for your first question, hmm. I am pretty comfortable with World War II. The intervention in Rwanda, I think. I do believe something had to be done in Somalia and Bosnia/Serbia and all that... I am just not sure that we did it.
If you are being invaded you have e
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:40 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> yeah it is. Unless unless it is an unconscionable war. There was a case to
>be made for refusing to go to Vietnam in my opinion. Especially after My
>Lai.
>
&g
can hit the streets.
> -Original Message-
> From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:30 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> you're asking me about Larry's post. But my answe
In uniform.
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:27 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
Just out of curiosity, would it have to be mandatory service in the U.S.
Armed Services or would
>My point was more how
>we are fighting what are essentially unconstitutional wars all the time.
>Even though I am willing to serve in them, I do have a problem with it, even
>if it is just semantics.
I agree with that part.
My US history is a bit hazy but I always thought this is what happens.
P
Just out of curiosity, would it have to be mandatory service in the U.S.
Armed Services or would being a private contractor doing the same job and
taking the same risks count? Is it being willing to take a bullet that's
important or is it working for the government?
-Kevin
- Original Message
time.
Even though I am willing to serve in them, I do have a problem with it, even
if it is just semantics.
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:48 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
At 14:11 5/28/
>First consider this, there were somewhat more nations involved in the second
>world war other than the US (which at times is a typical American response -
>no insult intended its just a typical attitude I've noticed since
>immigrating to the US). Poland, Czechoslovakia, the western part of Russia,
them ad nauseum.
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:48 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
At 14:11 5/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok so here is the root of my argument. When have
have a good one Larry!
-Pat
-Original Message-
From: Lyons, Larry
Have a good long weekend all, I'm out of here.
larry
Outbound email scanned for viruses. (e230)
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At 14:11 5/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok so here is the root of my argument. When have we constitutionally
>declared war in the last 50 years?
The easy answer is never.
The hard answer is this.
I didn't know that there didn't need to be a declaration of war for a
constitutional draft to start.
I
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
> I'm not going to argue the small point that during WW2 we
> weren't defending
> our home but rather we were invaders (technically liberators I
> guess) because it's a small part of the poin
Maybe, but it seems to me all that changed on August 6, 1945.
-Pat
-Original Message-
From: Lyons, Larry
There are wars that are morally justifiable, and wars that are not. I think
that it would be very good if those who make the decisions about going to
war visit those who have paid
At 14:16 5/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>You're right in some aspects. But if you're defending your home, your family
>etc. what else can you do? People like Hitler and Stalin don't exactly
>respond to moral persuasion.
>
>Are you telling me that we should not have liberated the occupied areas of
>Eur
Skeet shooting targets!
Go for artillery or the Navy, at least you get to sleep in a bed a bit more
often.
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:26 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: The return of the
That's the answer right there.
-Original Message-
From: Lyons, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:19 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
The ones that have always amazed me were those conscientious objectors who
I want them to go airborne infantry, but any service would be fine by me.
-Original Message-
From: William H Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:18 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
But their service in that case would
2004 2:11 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> No. The people that start these wars are elected. It's too
> late at that point. You go and do your duty, and you make
> sure you vote your beliefs. There have always been peop
M
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
> you're asking me about Larry's post. But my answer would be, you signed
> up. If when she turns 18 Lara still wants to sign up, I will probably
> still
> think it a bad idea. But it wil
the grave
sites etc., before making that decision. But if necessary go to war to
protect not for aggression.
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:06 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in
ermm...volunteer?
As Larry has pointed out, the Army did a great deal of research about
this in the 70s and determined that a volunteer Army is more effective,
motivated, etc.
The draft has classically overdrawn from the ranks of the poor because
they were unable to find a means to escape sele
yeah like they pay you to kill people I mean umm.
-Original Message-
From: Lyons, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:09 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
Remember also, they serve and with the GI bill and
Ok so here is the root of my argument. When have we constitutionally
declared war in the last 50 years?
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:48 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
At 13:39 5/28
of freedom.
-Original Message-
From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:40 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
yeah it is. Unless unless it is an unconscionable war. There was a case to
be made for refusing to go
ubject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> Lets remember I have two little boys of my own at home. I
> will insist that they serve if they want help with school
> from me. Either that or at 18 they can hit the streets.
This electronic communication, together with any attach
At 13:51 5/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>What about the Second World War, was stopping Hitler conscionable?
>
>larry
Yes, stopping Hitler was conscionable.
Yes, I found World War 2 unconscionable.
The idea of having to kill someone to save lives, I find unconscionable.
And while the reasons to go to
-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
you're asking me about Larry's post. But my answer would be, you signed
up. If when she turns 18 Lara still wants to sign up, I will probably still
think it a bad idea. But it will no longer be my call and she will have my
supp
ja
-Original Message-
From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:22 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
Tim?
Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:hooahh.
good answer.
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What about the Second World War, was stopping Hitler conscionable?
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:48 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> At 13:39 5/
At 13:39 5/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>yeah it is. Unless unless it is an unconscionable war. There was a case to
>be made for refusing to go to Vietnam in my opinion. Especially after My Lai.
Please point out which war was conscionable?
I find all wars unconscionable.
The only valid reason I can
Of the NATO countries, Belgium, Holland, Norway and Germany I believe have a
2 year conscription.
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:37 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the
004 10:41 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> I don't understand the subject of this thread.
>
> Do you mean?
> A) The mechanics/law to conduct a draft was abolished and is back now?
>
> Then you would be incorrect,
I'm not sure, but I think the "poor, stupid and/or unlucky" referred to draftees not volunteers. There is an image from drafts past that if you had money, where smart (i.e. in college) or lucky (your number didn't come up or you didn't qualify) you could avoid the draft.
That's my view on it an
turn of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> So which am I poor stupid or unlucky?
> -Original Message-
> From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:40 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
If you are going to have a draft then it should include everyone.
The only country with mandatory military service that I am familiar with is France, and they apparently have done away with it since I lived there. When I did though I knew quite a number of kids who were forced to go underground b
you're asking me about Larry's post. But my answer would be, you signed up. If when she turns 18 Lara still wants to sign up, I will probably still think it a bad idea. But it will no longer be my call and she will have my support if she goes, just like anyone else who does.
Please understand tha
Tim?
Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:hooahh.
good answer.
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-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
OK, now I am really pissed. Not my kids they don't.
Dana
>If you know any americans between the ages of 18 and 32 in the next 6
>years, this might be of interest ;-)
>
>http://www.congress.org/congressorg/is
hooahh.
good answer.
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:41 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
I don't understand the subject of this thread.
Do you mean?
A) The mechanics/l
So which am I poor stupid or unlucky?
-Original Message-
From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:40 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
ok, you have a point. I am very much against it though. Hard-wired
mama
I don't understand the subject of this thread.
Do you mean?
A) The mechanics/law to conduct a draft was abolished and is back now?
Then you would be incorrect, because the mechanics/law to conduct a draft
have been in place for a long time.
B) They are conducting a draft right now?
I'm prett
The will never serve though. Chances are if there is a draft, they will be
given some loophole to weasel out of serving.
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: Tangorre, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:02 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE
ROFL. Good start to the day, guys. Btw, I don't have all the latin off the site yet, the logo still stinks and the design is off-the-shelf, but:
www.banthebush.org
Make a couple posts in the forum for me, willya?
Thanks.
Dana
PS cafepress link is coming also
>You mean she wasn't already?
>
>l
You mean she wasn't already?
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:53 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> LOL
>
> >I hereby appoint you
LOL
>I hereby appoint you head of pissing people off, start now :-)
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27, 2004 9:35 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> I saw an interview with a general once (possibly Wesley
> Clark) where the interviewer asked him if someone like him
> would be more inclined to use military force to solve
>
*high five*
>Like joining the Air National Guard and not showing up?
> - Original Message -
> From: Lyons, Larry
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:05 AM
> Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> The will never serve thou
ok, you have a point. I am very much against it though. Hard-wired mama-bear stuff.
Dana
>The only good thing I can say about this is that hopefully it will prevent
>only the poor, stupid and unlucky being the only ones to serve. Consider how
>many of the children of the rich, powerful or the eli
> OK, now I am really pissed. Not my kids they don't.
It is good that you are pissed! Now we need 25 million others to get just as
pissed and stay pissed until this country starts to turn around.
I hereby appoint you head of pissing people off, start now :-)
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OK, now I am really pissed. Not my kids they don't.
Dana
>If you know any americans between the ages of 18 and 32 in the next 6
>years, this might be of interest ;-)
>
>http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&conten
>t_dir=ua_congressorg
>
>Women will be able to be dr
, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
I wasn't going to go there. The really sad part of it is that look at the
people who are really pushing for this sort of military adventurism,
Wolfowitz, Bush, Cheney etc. Most of the senior civilian appointees in the
Pentagon
From: Howie Hamlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The return of the Draft in the US.
>
>
> Like joining the Air National Guard and not showing up?
> - Original Message -
> From: Lyons, La
Like joining the Air National Guard and not showing up?
- Original Message -
From: Lyons, Larry
To: CF-Community
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: The return of the Draft in the US.
The will never serve though. Chances are if there is a draft, they will be
The only good thing I can say about this is that hopefully it will prevent
only the poor, stupid and unlucky being the only ones to serve. Consider how
many of the children of the rich, powerful or the elite were actually
drafted and who served in the military. If there is going to be another
consc
I wish it were true so I can see all the spoiled rich kids cry to mommy and
daddy when their number is called. LOL
> If you know any americans between the ages of 18 and 32 in
> the next 6 years, this might be of interest ;-)
>
> http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=583
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