From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
And you are a .Net programmer, that is one of the first
things learned when developing in the .Net language.
Really? Even before you learn about data types, classes, etc? C'mon...
. Getting
hired as a tech guy, you want to have as much exposure to everything as
possible.
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: Nick McClure [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community cf-community@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:28 AM
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better
Yes I know we have all heard this before. Java vs Coldfusion. Its a stupid
argument I have avoided it for years. Coldfuion compliments Java; It provide
a wealth of benifits. Well some groups don't see the beifits and the push
out of coldfusion has begun, just as soon as you start to enjoy
Yes I know we have all heard this before. Java vs Coldfusion.
Misconceptions and Myths about ColdFusion...
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/172573.htm
Just saw this today, haven't read the article, but it seems (from the
abstract) to be useful to your task.
--
will
If my life weren't
dont understand?
need more info.
and if you cannot find the cf ammo you need from a couple google's or
some blog roll, then, maybe it is time to say good bye adam :)
are your higher ups trying to say goodbye to cf, and you are tasked with proving
its worth?
tw
On 1/24/06, Adam Haskell [EMAIL
How public is cf community still?
Adam
On 1/24/06, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
dont understand?
need more info.
and if you cannot find the cf ammo you need from a couple google's or
some blog roll, then, maybe it is time to say good bye adam :)
are your higher ups trying to say goodbye
How public is cf community still?
very
--
will
If my life weren't funny, it would just be true;
and that would just be unacceptable.
- Carrie Fisher
~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:194000
That's a neat article, and does a good job of illustrating the strong points
of Cold Fusion.
But I don't think you should have to blindly defend cold fusion, nor should
you. CF may or may not be the right tool for your company. It really depends
on a wide range of things. Instead of trying to
Coldfusion is a faster developement platfrom, its a fact Point me to a
quantifiable resource that shows me this is true. If it is a fact it has to
have been derived from some sort of research data, it not then its a claim
and not a fact.
Adam
Well the fact that you can do more in CF with fewer lines of code
hints at the fact that CF is faster. Oh CF is faster to learn too..
But if you're so defiant on CF, leave.. there's not one soul here or
anywhere forcing you to use CF..
On 1/24/06, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Coldfusion
Uh.he WANTS to use CF, but he needs our help in arming him so he can
defend it against the higher ups.
Well the fact that you can do more in CF with fewer lines of code
hints at the fact that CF is faster. Oh CF is faster to learn too..
But if you're so defiant on CF, leave.. there's not
Well I can only offer my opinion.. I'm normally a CF programmer. We
had a new project to be designed in Flex and as a backend we chose to
use Java.. Before this I've had little experience in Java. I can tell
you that CF is much easier to learn, much easier to connect to DBs as
CF manages the
I am so tired of this. Not from Adam or anyone at House Of Fusion, but
the attacks against Coldfusion in general. Why should I have to defend
CF? Tell me why Java, .NET, PHP or whatever is better. I don't want
your opinion, because my opinion of CF isn't accepted so why should your
opinion
See with hibernate and Spring programing in Java is considerably easier. I
mean with hibernate you don't even have to really do much to persist your
data. Sure we have reactor or ARF but how mature are they compared to
Spring and Hibernate and do either of them really copare when it comes to
the
The project: An Operating System.
Your Language: CF
My Language: C++
Guess who loses? You.
From: Ken Ketsdever [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is it that you want done that I can't do with CF? Come
up with a project and you do it in the language de Jour and
I'll do it in CF.
Let's
The project: An Operating System.
more accurately, then, define a project within the scope of CF (web
applications)
or should CF be judged now on it's ability to do or not do tasks it
wasn't designed to do in the first place?
If this is the case then every programming language on earth is
Realistically, the language you use depends on the job. I don't actually use
CF anymore, Really, I don't code any more.
When I did code, I found .NET to be more up my ally as a language. I can try
to give you a couple of reasons why somebody would pick something like Java
or .NET over CF. Mostly
Cfldap holmes.
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:14 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Realistically, the language you use depends on the job. I
don't actually use CF anymore, Really, I
-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:14 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Realistically, the language you use depends on the job. I
don't actually use CF anymore, Really, I don't code any more.
When I did code, I
give me a web based task in cf
and you or anyone a task in any other language
and ill beat them.
thats quantifiable son. straight cash homey!
tw
On 1/24/06, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See with hibernate and Spring programing in Java is considerably easier. I
mean with hibernate
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here is your challenge. I have an Active Directory structure
that contains 60k User accounts in two separate forests.
Daily I need to get a full dump of all the users and
reconcile them against a SQL Server DB. Then every 15 minutes
I need
is coldfusion better.
give me a web based task in cf
and you or anyone a task in any other language
and ill beat them.
thats quantifiable son. straight cash homey!
tw
On 1/24/06, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See with hibernate and Spring programing in Java is considerably
Cfldap holmes.
Active directory will only give you 1000 users at a time using ldap, what if
they have 4 thousand users that start with an s', or over 1000 names that start
with sa. You'd have to have a loop upon a loop and then how would you know
you're getting the correct number of users?
, January 24, 2006 1:27 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
give me a web based task in cf
and you or anyone a task in any other language
and ill beat them.
thats quantifiable son. straight cash homey!
tw
On 1/24/06, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
came no where close to being done
when I was.
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:27 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
give me a web based task in cf
and you or anyone a task in any other
What's the learning curve?
How about flexibility? Can I make it look and act however I want?
-Original Message-
From: Zaphod Beeblebrox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:50 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
If that's your
Limits you to 1000 records per query, and is grossly inefficient.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:16 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Cfldap holmes.
-Original Message-
From: Nick
But I can charge more for an app in .NET, and I have MS marketing backing me
up.
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:27 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
give me a web based task in cf
and you
12:40 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
Active directory will only give you 1000 users at a time using ldap, what
if they have 4 thousand users that start with an s', or over 1000 names
that start with sa. You'd have to have a loop upon a loop and then how
would you
24, 2006 12:31 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is your
challenge. I have an Active Directory structure that contains 60k User
accounts in two separate forests.
Daily I need to get a full dump of all the users
: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:40 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
Cfldap holmes.
Active directory will only give you 1000 users at a time using ldap,
what if they have 4 thousand users that start with an s', or over 1000
names that start with sa. You'd have to have a loop
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:02 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Limits you to 1000 records per query, and is grossly inefficient.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:16 PM
, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:06 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
The main problem comes when you are dealing with multi-value attributes
such as member or memberOf. When these exceed 1000, Active
Directory does some funky
Uh, yeah, that's because CF's primary advantage is ease of use and rapid
development.
What everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring, though, is that a well
written compiled program will outperform a well written CF program.
So your project was done on Monday, someone elses was done on
Heh unless someone wants a CF developer that has a loose understanding of OO
and Java (read I have supported Java apps, and enhanced them, never written
one from ground up) and is willing to help me rellocate from Ohio then I am
guessing leaving is not an option, though from my understanding
Wouldn't this be a great study for the marketing dept at Adobe to take
up? I mean, how many times have we had this discussion, and it always
seems to boil down to opinions. You're right, it would be nice to pull
out some facts from studies that are *real*, not based on opinion.
Are you
I agree Ken. I also hesitated to bring this up AGAIN on this list, it really
is a tireless winless battle. But I think I have the reason CF is always on
defense. Resource pool. How many colleges across America teach CF? I know
of 2, both are community colleges not 4 year institutes. Howmany teach
Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:33 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
Heh unless someone wants a CF developer that has a loose understanding of
OO
and Java (read I have supported Java apps, and enhanced them, never
written
one from
On 1/24/06, G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uh, yeah, that's because CF's primary advantage is ease of use and rapid
development.
ok, great... not a downfall.
What everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring, though, is that a well
written compiled program will outperform a well written CF
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:03 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
On 1/24/06, G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uh, yeah, that's because CF's primary advantage is ease of use and rapid
development.
ok, great... not a downfall.
What everyone seems
What everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring, though, is that a well
written compiled program will outperform a well written CF program.
how can you say this? for real dog. how? with enough server ass and
well written code, it will perform no less better that any application.
That's
Rapid development isn't as important as you think, not to a customer. They
want something done using a technology they have heard of.
I have seen it time and time again. When you make a bid to a customer
quoting a CF site that it done faster and cheaper, vs. a .NET site that
takes longer and
Cost ensures that there is no un-biased way to compare these products. Is
development time faster in CF, almost always, does the performance hits
incurred by a script language make it that much less attractive, no.
When ever we had simple content management websites, we had a fairly simple
CF
--
-Original Message-
From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 3:52 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
Coldfusion is a faster developement platfrom, its a fact Point me to a
quantifiable
: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 7:16 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Rapid development isn't as important as you think, not to a customer. They
want something done using a technology they have heard of.
I have seen it time and time again. When you make a bid to a customer
Nail. Head. Whack.
Choosing a language is rarely done in a vacuum. There is no best,
and better is only able to be decided based on what external factors
there are.
CF is good at RAD. But a project done RAD is rarely something you want
to support and build on top of for the next five or ten
-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:09 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Adam
As stated in other posts your question is fact and not fiction.
For example as the sys-con article says CF comes with out of
the box
Well, as long as it's CF 7, and you can migrate the byte code, you're not
really fibbing right?
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:21 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Nick,
We had
-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Adam
As stated in other posts your question is fact and not fiction.
For example as the sys-con article says CF comes with out of the box
solutions, so let's look at gateways for example. How long would you
think
it would take a .Net
: Why is coldfusion better.
Nick,
We had the same problem with a major client, so the thing is that we
told
a
small fib by a technical means only. We told them that the application
will
be deployed on a J2EE server running java code. We didn't tell them
that
the
code was written using
-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:31 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
This is a very good point. You get a ton of extra stuff out of the
box
that
you don't get elsewhere.
Ben Forta a while back did a cost comparison
is coldfusion better.
Well, as long as it's CF 7, and you can migrate the byte code, you're
not
really fibbing right?
~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:194132
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com
--
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 10:02 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Can you give me a few examples of the APIs you are talking about?
What type of master/detail DB interaction
--
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 10:03 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Well, that works if you are hosting the site in house. If I'm providing
Message-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:10 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
I am talking about the amount of code needed to do the job.
And API's like the tags to send a message to the gateway.
Regards
Andrew
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 10:13 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
I'm not sure the amount of code is that different.
With the .NET stuff I have done, a lot of it used far less code that
comparable CF stuff.
I guess my question is what do you
So you can do PDF, rd and flash paper reports native in .Net?
Database interactions?
Flash Remoting?
All for free?
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:07 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
I
No he's talking about MX 7 gateway events. Like SMS and IM.
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:13 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
I'm not sure the amount of code is that different
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Not smtp.
Gateways!!
Like filewatching, IM's etc.
~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:194156
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists
-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:48 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
So you can do PDF, rd and flash paper reports native in .Net?
Database interactions?
Flash Remoting?
All for free
OK, yeah, there are tons of stuff out there for that.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:57 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
No he's talking about MX 7 gateway events. Like SMS and IM
--
-Original Message-
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2006 11:04 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
OK, yeah, there are tons of stuff out there for that.
~|
Message
January 2006 11:01 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
http://www.fluentconsulting.com/components/Fluent.Toc/
Here is a free AOL gateway after a minute or two of searching. I also
found MSN and google talk.
What is filewatching?
-Original Message-
From: Andrew
don't even have access to a CF server anymore.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:28 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
Well its like watching a directory via a gateway service to see if a
file
You know, big deal, who really gives a crap about what language you program
in? If you do CF, good for you. If you do .NET, great for you. If you do
Java, really great for you, you make the most money. I mean, this whole
conversation is so 1999.
- Matt
i know, but without fail it strikes a chord EVERY TIME!
and not just for one of us. why does it strike so hard?
tw
On 1/24/06, Chesty Puller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, big deal, who really gives a crap about what language you program
in? If you do CF, good for you. If you do .NET,
: Why is coldfusion better.
Yes but by the time you investigate the best option for you, time
wasted
and
then waste time trying to intergrate it into your application to find
out
it
doesn't do what your looking for time wasted, then you have to write
facades
or code API to talk to these 3rd
Tech Ego.
People in IT hate to be wrong.
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
i know, but without fail it strikes a chord EVERY TIME!
and not just for one of us
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
i know, but without fail it strikes a chord EVERY TIME!
and not just for one of us. why does it strike so hard?
Probably
, 2006 12:34 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
i know, but without fail it strikes a chord EVERY
-Community
Subject: RE: Why is coldfusion better.
-Original Message-
From: Tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Why is coldfusion better.
i know, but without fail it strikes a chord EVERY TIME
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