You can use
http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://url_to_pdf_or_doc_or_xls_or_something
to see those documents converted to html. Works ok in most of the cases,
even on my phone.
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On Dec 20, 7:09 am, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
It is the algebra language in the Axiom project called
Spad.http://axiom-developer.org
It is open source
There is also Qi (http://www.lambdassociates.org/qilisp.htm). It is
now morphing into Shen
Can you articulate it any better than ah hah!?
Heureka!
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Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes:
* OO programs conflate value, state, and identity.
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections.
I just thought of a non programming language example which might help
explain what state and identity conflation means. The
You can't step into the same river twice.
In this quote the river is the identity. At any snapshot in time the river
is a specific value.
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On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the
same order -- but then you use one as a
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org wrote:
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes:
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the
same order -- but then you use one as a key in a
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
Sincerely
Meikel
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No, identifiers are names. Identity transcends names. For example,
in a distributed shared object system, multiple machines on the same
network will have different identifiers for the same identity.
Ordinary usage isn't good enough for metaphysical discussions.
There is a metaphysical
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
*giggle*
It figures.
I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link.
*falls over laughing*
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On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Alyssa Kwan alyssa.c.k...@gmail.com wrote:
No, identifiers are names. Identity transcends names. For example,
in a distributed shared object system, multiple machines on the same
network will have different identifiers for the same identity.
Ordinary usage
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
*giggle*
It figures.
I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link.
I think too many posters here are equating Clojure with Lisp.
Clojure is a LISP, but it is not LISP itself.
* Mutability is not a given in all LISP implementations, only some of
them.
* STM transactions (i.e. state and time management upon non-mutable
objects) is a Clojure concept, that no other
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
*giggle*
It
Hi,
Am 20.12.2010 um 19:39 schrieb Ken Wesson:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
*giggle*
It figures.
I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
*giggle*
It figures.
I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link.
*falls over laughing*
How rude. Searching in the PDF (yes, that works), one
On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.dewrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
What things normally mean has no place in computer science. You
have to embrace the jargon to be able to think rationally in the
space. This in no way detracts from this discussion.
When I say Hickey nomenclature, I mean vis a vis classical
philosophy or Hegel. Lay nomenclature only muddies
Hi Ken,
I'd like to nominate you on behalf of the Clojure community to convert
all non-text resources into text only resources. You officially have
my vote. I think your passion makes you the perfect candidate to do
this work. In the mean time I'd like to extend a thanks to all the
folks having
On 12/20/2010 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.dewrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100
Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
if you prefer text over talk:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
Thanks for the link.
To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had forgotten there was a
textual representation with a lower
On 12/20/2010 1:42 PM, Tim Robinson wrote:
I think too many posters here are equating Clojure with Lisp.
Clojure is a LISP, but it is not LISP itself.
Since I've worked in a dozen Lisps (golden common, VMLisp, Lisp370,
Zetalisp, MacLisp, Lisp 1.5, Orien Lisp, etc.) I don't think I would
I generally find it easier to get the bigger picture of something when I'm
stepping a little bit back.
With programming languages, sometimes it can involve discovering language
n+1 to give some new perspective on language n, and getting the ah ah
moment with language n.
For example, it's hard to
2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Alyssa Kwan alyssa.c.k...@gmail.com wrote:
What things normally mean has no place in computer science. You
have to embrace the jargon to be able to think rationally in the
space. This in no way detracts from this discussion.
I meant what things normally mean
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Tim Robinson tim.blacks...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ken,
I'd like to nominate you on behalf of the Clojure community to convert
all non-text resources into text only resources.
Sorry, but I must decline; I simply don't have the time to do so. As I
already mentioned
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
I am amazed that you find a link to a scholarly article inappropriate.
I didn't find the link inappropriate. No doubt the content is just peachy.
I did find the format problematic. I much prefer stuff I can simply
browse
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
I did find the format problematic. I much prefer stuff I can simply
browse in my web browser as normal, without involving special plugins
or external applications and without the files themselves being
enormous, as videos
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100
Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf
Thanks for the link.
To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:27:11 -0500
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100
Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
On Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:47:56 AM UTC+11, Ken Wesson wrote:
But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked
up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to
Google's search and not even all linked from one place (the closest to
one place being
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:27:11 -0500
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Steve stephen.a.lind...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:47:56 AM UTC+11, Ken Wesson wrote:
But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked
up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to
Google's search
On Dec 20, 10:53 am, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:39 PM, javajosh javaj...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:53 am, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
But that would leave people with the misleading impression that a pdf
file is an adequate choice, even when I'm on my mobile ...
It's a perfectly adequate choice on my mobile... I read PDFs all the
time on my phone.
(sorry,
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
But that would leave people with the misleading impression that a pdf
file is an adequate choice, even when I'm on my mobile ...
It's a perfectly
There have been discussions, here and elsewhere, about
whether Clojure is a Lisp. Lots of discussion centers
around facts like homoiconicity, or the REPL, or the
debate of Rich's redefinition of lisp primitives, etc.
These are arguments about the paint on the palace.
I have struggled with this
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
The most fundamental thing about Lisp is that there is
this universal but personal event when you suddenly
get it. This does not seem to happen with other languages.
I think it's true to some extent with most languages
Can you articulate it any better than ah hah!?
On Dec 19, 11:33 am, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
There have been discussions, here and elsewhere, about
whether Clojure is a Lisp. Lots of discussion centers
around facts like homoiconicity, or the REPL, or the
debate of Rich's
sha-wing? :D
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 5:41 PM, javajosh javaj...@gmail.com wrote:
Can you articulate it any better than ah hah!?
On Dec 19, 11:33 am, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
There have been discussions, here and elsewhere, about
whether Clojure is a Lisp. Lots of discussion
Haskell has aha moments too. And it is not lisp.
The definition of lisp i accept is much simpler and much more
obvious: source code of the program is a valid data structure in that
language.
On Dec 19, 11:33 am, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
There have been discussions, here and
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Vagif Verdi vagif.ve...@gmail.com wrote:
Haskell has aha moments too. And it is not lisp.
The definition of lisp i accept is much simpler and much more
obvious: source code of the program is a valid data structure in that
language.
Access to the parse tree.
On 12/19/2010 6:41 PM, javajosh wrote:
Can you articulate it any better than ah hah!?
The proper response is moo.
But I think there is a point where you get concepts
like the distinction between values and identity which
are fundamental. Whatever the event, it feels like
whatever I write is
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the ah-hah! experience with
other languages. However, I have only had
the (before lisp)|(after lisp) experience
with lisp.
Your enlightenment might vary.
Rich gave his Whitehead talk and brought
up the fact that OO languages get several
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the ah-hah! experience with
other languages. However, I have only had
the (before lisp)|(after lisp) experience
with lisp.
Your enlightenment might vary.
Rich
Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org writes:
Haskell has neat ideas but I've seen them before in lisp-based
systems. I work in a language which is strongly typed, allows
currying, is functional, etc., implemented in Common Lisp. I have
not found the ah-hah! in Haskell.
Sounds interesting,
On 12/19/2010 8:33 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org writes:
Haskell has neat ideas but I've seen them before in lisp-based
systems. I work in a language which is strongly typed, allows
currying, is functional, etc., implemented in Common Lisp. I have
not found the
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the ah-hah! experience with
other languages.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
Has everyone on this list developed a sudden allergy to plain text and
HTML? First I get pointed to a 34-minute video, and now this. A simple
bulleted list with a brief precis about each item would have sufficed;
a
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19,
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 21:24:42 -0500
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
I didn't mean to
On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19,
2010/12/20 Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org
On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org
wrote:
On
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes:
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the
same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add
an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this
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