A fresh example of the placement of the next and previous buttons (left or
right) would be on the Ads of the World site that came up under a different
thread.
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/online/national_grid_floe
If they were tracking THIS users' mouse, they would have watched my falter,
as I
I totally agree with Johan Sjöstrand. Also a good example is a book:
If you want to go further, you go to the lower right corner and if
you want to go back, you go to the lower left corner.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
Nick, I take that as a personal attack. You replied to me personally and I
did the same. If you do it publicly, I'll do the same. Part of being an
Expert is going against the North American-Mindset and setting Trends based
on Tests, Human Factors, Holistic Design, Best Practices and Personal
Then Keep 'Assuming'.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Todd Zaki Warfel [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Nick Gassman wrote:
I'm assuming that you are basing your recommendations on testing and
research rather than personal opinion.
And that would be a mistake. I
Sorry Todd, but at this point, Google has got me so confused that I
don't know how to respond or whom to respond to regarding this message. I am
not the first to express this and hopefully not the last.
I don't know if you are 'For' or 'Against' what I'm saying. Apologies in
advance.
On Wed,
*Todd*, if any credit is lost it would have to be my users and I would never
put the blame on them.
Attacking someone's credit is a low-political blow when people don't want to
debate any more and are looking for a way to be right.
Many revolutionist appear to have low-credit because they believe
Idiosyncratic. (hee hee)
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Nick Gassman [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:45:23 -0400, Brett wrote:
Nick, I take that as a personal attack. You replied to me personally and I
did the same. If you do it publicly, I'll do the same.
Part of being an
There seem to be overwhelming examples of previous(left) next(right).
I can't see how or why to change that. The mental timeline puts the
past on the left and the future on the right.
Seems like everywhere I look I see the primary button on the bottom
right.
Hi Eric,
thank you for joining in the
Caroline if this works, when I take over the Internet I'm putting you 2nd
in Command.
Steady on! (blushes) It's just a form, it isn't a solution to famine or
anything :-)
Hey, I know the position doesn't pay good but the opportunity is still there
if you want it.
*: )*
Brett: Thanks for the reply, and no, I definitely don't mind your
using my sample for your mockup, and yes, I agree your layout is yet
another solution to the problem that works great in a lot of
situations. I could see using your layout in a form where Previous
is not a very likely scenario and
On Sep 18, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
*Todd*, if any credit is lost it would have to be my users and I
would never put the blame on them.
Attacking someone's credit is a low-political blow when people don't
want to debate any more and are looking for a way to be right.
Many
On Sep 21, 2008, at 1:00 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
Most say right- I say left...can't we all just meet somewhere in the
*Middle *? (pardon the pun)
http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2871312900/sizes/o/
Providing this illustration from the beginning would have saved a lot
of
*Brett,
*
*Perhaps you missed the point.*
Todd,
Perhaps you didn't make yourself clear.
*Providing this illustration from the beginning would have saved a lot of
wasted time on this argument.*
You don't know that. Sometimes we have to go through this process to come to
the conclusion that
On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
Providing this illustration from the beginning would have saved a
lot of wasted time on this argument.
You don't know that. Sometimes we have to go through this process to
come to the conclusion that diagrams were needed. I don't call any
Todd,
thank you for your private message. No one has ever spoken to me like that
before. I am still in awe of the kind words that you wrote me. I can't
believe that you took the time to write all of that. (I'm going to show my
wife the message you wrote me.)
I apologize for being sarcastic in my
On Sep 22, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
thank you for your private message.
And thus ends another episode of As The List Churns.
Tune in next week, when we'll hear David say, ... but design is more
important than sex!
Brett Lutchman
Here is what I have always been doing. Not trying to press the issue
but this is what I've been doing all along. Am I really wrong for doing
this? I just don't see it.
Hi Brett
Thanks for the example.
Now I can see why it works. Previously, I thought you were talking about a
From: Brett Lutchman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Caroline, I will however try your recommendation with moving the Previous
to the left side because as you state, I have already captured the point
with the Next button being vertically on the top.
In my next opportunity to do this, I honestly will.
To chime in here. Caroline lays it out exactly right in terms of when
and how people come to the end of the answering the questions they
need to on a form. Hence the the principle of putting the action that
allows them to make forward progress right in their line of fire.
One of the
Wow. I'm late to the party, but I'm really happy to see this topic
being discussed because I've been losing faith in the people read
from left to right rule. If this problem were as simple as that
then we wouldn't have buttons floating all over the place.
I think it really depends on the layout,
Hi guys, just getting back to this now, my messages have been captured by
the Moderator and I'm only learning this style of communication now. Sorry
for that.
Nice diagrams Bryan. I can see why it's so important to view illustrations
because the example that you illustrated was nothing like how I
LOL Thanks Santiago you are a gentlemen as well as a good layout artist.
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Santiago Bustelo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hi Brett! Really loved your layout. Also proof that pictures are worth a
thousand words.
Certainly I won't call anyone on this thread a failed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Liz) wrote:
One aspect of previous and next that bears mention here is
that conceptually they could be considered a pair. If the design
situation calls for both regularly, it's sort of like the situation
with rewind play/pause and forward wherein they're
hardly even
Wow, I never expected my question to spark such an intense discussion
but I've been reading all the replies with great interest.
As regards context, I was deliberately a bit vague because I was
looking for general rules rather than a solution to a specific
situation but we are currently designing
Nick wrote:
As an aside, I'm sending this from my web-based version of home email
(it gets complicated). I fill in a text field to write this, then if I
go bottom left, the most obvious button is actually 'inbox', which
loses my inputs. I've done that more than once. So why am I looking to
I was personally a bit confused when i installed Firefox 3 and used
the Find feature for the first time. The widget order is:
Find: (? search string) [Next] [Previous]
This broke my mental model of the direction in the document.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
On Sep 19, 2008, at 6:07 AM, Tamlyn Rhodes wrote:
I didn't go straight for this solution is LukeW Etre's eye-
tracking study which showed that a form works best when the primary
action is on the left, aligned with the form fields.
That's also just one study, which contradicts years of HCI
I can't help but think in pictures, so I mocked up two more or less
efficient ways that both perspectives could work well, here:
http://tinyurl.com/3k2d92
Obviously, they're 5 minute mockups, but perhaps it might help
clarify the two different views. In the first case, it would seem
pretty
Brian,
But wouldn't this layout work better than any of those three?
http://gallery.me.com/jackmoffett#100025
On Sep 19, 2008, at 1:50 AM, Bryan Minihan wrote:
In the first case, it would seem
pretty silly to put the Previous button to the left of Next, while in
cases 2 and 3, Previous
Jack,
Yeah, that's probably the design I would wind up with, myself =]
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=32945
Welcome to the
Caroline,
great explanation; I've got only one doubt - your thesis assumes
that users in every moment see only one thing they are just looking
at. They notice button when they look directly on button.
I have the impression that - at least more advanced - users notice
distinctive, characteristic
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:07:12 +0100, Tamlyn wrote:
I like Oleh's suggestion of showing a summary of previous choices with
an option to edit each. That's something we do elsewhere on the site
and it seems to work.
I think that speaks to what I think is a generally accepted principle
of user
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:50:23, Bryan wrote:
I can't help but think in pictures, so I mocked up two more or less
efficient ways that both perspectives could work well, here:
http://tinyurl.com/3k2d92
Bryan, that's great. It's been pointed out more than once that we're
discussing the issues
Bryan: going to mockups was such a brilliant move!
Talking and talking and talking about design, art, or any craft,
should be left to critics - i.e., failed designers / artists /
craftsmen.
My suggestion:
http://icograma.com/qd/next-prev-100026.gif
--
Santiago Bustelo // icograma
Buenos
Sorry, Brett, had to jump in because you're contradicting yourself a
bit here. I think your approach is starting to lose credit. Let me see
if I can help below.
On Sep 17, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
The fact remains that the next logical primary action is to move
forward with
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:45:23 -0400, Brett wrote:
Nick, I take that as a personal attack. You replied to me personally and I did
the same. If you do it publicly, I'll do the same.
Part of being an Expert is going against the North American-Mindset
and setting Trends based on Tests, Human
Interesting question indeed.
How about adding context and separating these two actions along vertical
axis?
Here is what I mean:
1. Show summary of completed steps at the top of the wizard screen with
Edit button -- this is your Back button.
2. Put only one Next button at the bottom of the
One aspect of previous and next that bears mention here is
that conceptually they could be considered a pair. If the design
situation calls for both regularly, it's sort of like the situation
with rewind play/pause and forward wherein they're
hardly even separate controls. (And of course time
Having conducted multiple studies and tests on this very process, the 'Next'
button must be on the left side while the 'Previous' button needs to be on
the right.
There are several reasons as to why this is but I will focus on the 2 main
ones.
1. One thing I hate when entering serial numbers for
I wouldn't put the previous button at the top unless it was at the bottom
also. If it's not at the bottom, users will have to scroll up again which is
counter-productive. Also, the 'Previous' button may be out of the user's
sight.
You may be right about not having it beside it though. Maybe below
My tests as well as other expert testers in the industry (2 experts 1.
Andrew Chak- Usability author of 'Submit Now' and 2. Dave W Small Dir of
Tech., Rogers) indicate the same as I've stated.
But regardless of tests, for the reasons that I listed, the chances for
disrupted usability and flow is
Here it is. I don't know why it's not showing for you. I hope others are not
getting the same issue.
--
Having conducted multiple studies and tests on this very process, the 'Next'
button must be on the left side while the 'Previous' button needs to be on
the right.
There are several reasons as
On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:21 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
Having conducted multiple studies and tests on this very process,
the 'Next' button must be on the left side while the 'Previous'
button needs to be on the right.
Don't you have this reversed? Next on the right, Previous on the left?
I've had to design a few such forms, but normally prefer to break
down large wizard-ish processes into separate distinct actions rather
than lead people down a complicated multi-step form...
Anyway, I've had some success meeting both the logical and
efficiency objectives Brett describes by making
Brett Lutchman
Having conducted multiple studies and tests on this very process, the
'Next' button must be on the left side while the 'Previous' button needs
to be
on the right.
Aren't you conflating two problems here?
- responsiveness to users who use keyboard/tab
- conceptual location of
At least the Tab problem you can solve easily with the HTML property
tabindex... then you can choose which fields come first...
I was going to say that you should put the Next button in the right side and
the Previous in the left, because that always made more sense to me... But
now as Caroline
On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
A mouse user will eventually find the button on the left if it's not
on the right.
A keyboard savvy would have their flow broken and would have to
press the forward button again
Eventually doesn't seem to be a winning model to me.
Now,
I think the answer needs to revolve around a few issues, some of
which I haven't seen mentioned explicitly.
1) Which order tests best (generally, I've seen Next on the right;
Previous on the left test best. I believe it takes advantage of the
mental model of pages of a book, though I've
On 17 Sep 2008, at 15:35, Lee McIvor wrote:
Where users are completing forms or similar, from left to right and
top to bottom, then natural flow suggests the next button be
bottom right. Whether they are a keyboard or mouse user isn't the
point in my opinion.
By having only one submit
This has definitely sparked some interesting responses. I think the best
thing to do is to always go with what your users are saying. I am so amazed
by everyone's response and I am totally better off because of it (I'm sure
we all are).
For me, I deal with highly educated and complex users who
Hi Todd,
Eventually is not necessarily negative. Every single one of us will
'Eventually' find something or arrive somewhere whether it's online or not.
'Eventually' does not necessarily mean a lot of time either (it could be
less then a second).
Also, I should have stated that the majority of my
Brett,
Just to be clear, previous = left / next = right doesn't only apply to
mass-public websites. I too design applications that are industry,
rather than consumer, focused. Of course, a number of the apps I've
worked on are tablet-based with finger and/or stylus input, so
keyboard is
I sent this to Brett earlier rather than the list. He did reply to me,
but I'll leave it to him whether he wants to forward it to the list.
I'm getting really confused by what shows up on the list, what on the
webpage, and wotnot. I sent this post earlier from the webpage, but it
hasn't shown up
On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Nick Gassman wrote:
I'm assuming that you are basing your recommendations on testing and
research rather than personal opinion.
And that would be a mistake. I really can't imagine valid tests
showing the Prev button on the left being more usable.
Cheers!
On Sep 17, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote:
Ok everyone jump on the bandwagon we're leaving in 10 minutes.
Hey, I'm not trying to gang up on you, Brett. I was already sitting on
the bus when you stepped on. I'm sorry if I offended, but it sounded
as if you were brushing everyone
Ok everyone jump on the bandwagon we're leaving in 10 minutes.
Another 100 people could jump in the convo and say the same about the
Previous being on the left and Next on the right, it's not going to change
the my past usability tests and a decade of interaction design experience-
although I will
Discuss] Next previous button order
As discussed by LukeW in Web Form Design, it's best to have the primary
action of a form be the first button that the user sees. For left-to-right
languages this means having the primary action on the left and any secondary
actions on the right (see
Johan Sjöstrand and Jeff Howard have some good points. Do we really
need the back button?
A multi page form should have a (clickable) index indicating the
various steps in the form, and a next button to go to the next page.
--
The next and previous buttons do not behave as action buttons,
but
Tamlyn,
I think it's a great example of this kind of situation, where using
too-simple rules leads to oversophisticated solutions.
In fact: western world is left-to-right: we start looking at the left
side of the page, we tend to see left element as first and right
as second and so on. But it
Tamlyn,
I think it's a great example of this kind of situation, where using
too-simple
rules leads to oversophisticated solutions.
In fact: western world is left-to-right: we start looking at the left side
of the page, we tend to see left element as first and right as second
and so on. But it
Are you moving the user forward progressivly in a linear fashion towards a
goal such as a guide or a cartregister flow? Is there no particular good
reason to go back other than e.g. to correct mistakes?
Yes, this is a multi-page form similar to a checkout process (can't
put it all on one page
However, if the options are Next/Submit and Previous it does make
more sense conceptually to have the back button on the left and the
next button on the right.
The tab order, a very important piece of form design, can always be
manipulated to put the buttons in the right order.
On Mon, Sep 15,
Maybe the problem is assuming the Previous button has to be anywhere
near the Next or Submit button. Maybe put the Previous button
at the top? or at the very bottom? Maybe it's not a button at all,
but a text link or a graphical link of some sort...
That way the submit button is in the proper
The top/bottom thing would really depend on the platform.. if it's a
website, then yes, you might need it at the top and bottom. if it's a
desktop app the issue of scrolling off the screen might not be a
problem..
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Brett Lutchman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:40:17 +0100, Tamlyn wrote:
On our pages the continue/submit button is always to the right, and go
back is always to the left. We've tested many many people with this
design, and I can't recall a single occasion where it caused
confusion.
It has caused confusion where
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:17:12 -0400, Brett wrote:
My tests as well as other expert testers in the industry (2 experts 1. Andrew
Chak- Usability author of 'Submit Now' and 2. Dave W Small Dir of Tech.,
Rogers) indicate the same as I've stated.
But regardless of tests, for the reasons that I
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