I like this. Also changing the color on the P3 cursor when going into transmit,
not just when selecting or deselecting SPLIT.
Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO
On Feb 19, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote:
Useful analysis, Rich. I agree this might cause some confusion.
Here's a
I may have missed the beginning of this thread, but agree with VE3KI that
there is no mind reading solution. The current approach could be improved
to reduce some errors but there is a lot of skimmer spotting that does NOT
indicate UP or QSK ... and lots of people click and xmit. But reducing
the
Wayne,
I think that would be unnecessarily irritating for normal use with the
frequency display blinking.
I actually like what happens on the K2 (which displays only one VFO).
In SPLIT or XIT, the display changes to the transmit VFO frequency - and
the resultant 'blinking' is quite obvious.
How about when NOT in split, the display flashes UPLID, alternating with the
frequency? :-)
Barry W2UP
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/A-way-to-show-both-SPLIT-and-NON-SPLIT-warnings-tp7598915p7598998.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at
On 2015-02-19 6:44 AM, John K3TN via Elecraft wrote:
That VFO swapping SPLIT display is one of only two things I find I
like better when using my old TS-850 as I am now since my K3 is out
at a remote site. But, boy do I miss that sub-RX!
VFO Swapping displays are a feature of *single
On 2015-02-19 9:37 AM, Cady, Fred wrote:
Please consider adding a transmit color to the P3 too because when
chasing the split dx I'm not looking at the K3 display at all.
When XIT/RIT or split is activated a *third* transmit cursor already
appears in red. Since the P3 display is frozen in
Let's also let the Split/Not Split warning thread rest for now. We've definitely
beat this one to death! :-)
73,
Eric
List moderator and therapist..
elecraft.com
On 2/19/2015 4:20 PM, George Fritkin via Elecraft wrote:
Wayne, I have it!! Buy the rights to the Kenwood TS990 front panel.
Why don't we get on with life. Split operation is implemented many ways by
different manufactures. Proper split operation is a combination of radio and
operator skills. We can do some things on the radio to improve operation, but
we can not change operator skills.
As I said, optimum split
On 2015-02-19 8:14 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
What would be wrong with displaying the transmit VFO in the larger
upper frequency display area (even if it is also displayed in the
smaller frequency display area). The result is a blinking display
when SPLIT or XIT is engaged.
The upper display as
I also believe the real problem is the click and transmit action of
the operator.
We seem to have lost the listen before transmitting polite operating
considerations.
Listening before transmitting requires the operator an opportunity to
think about where he is going to transmit, and that
This is looking like a promising change to me. I guess start keying would
have to have a delay so it didn't flash at QSK rates.
Please consider adding a transmit color to the P3 too because when chasing the
split dx I'm not looking at the K3 display at all.
Thanks and cheers,
Fred KE7X
For Pete's sake gentlemen, Wayne has stated that whatever is done will
be menu driven, so if you don't want it, don't use it. It sounds like a lot of
people could use the extra warning if the number of UP UP UPs on K1N was any
indication. The conversation should now be concerned with
the
Wayne, I have it!! Buy the rights to the Kenwood TS990 front panel. There are
enough buttons and displays to make anybody happy. Gee Whiz
George,W6GF
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote:
The fact that the K3 has the blessings of Cognitive
Well stated, Gary. But those who don't have a P3 could still benefit from a
more overt split/non-split indication on the K3 itself. I'm going to try the
method I proposed.
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
It is the operator of the radio who must be in
I like this idea, at least for those with a P3. It is usually where my
eyes are. If the P3 (and of course SVGA display) were to make the
transmitting cursor background yellow when the K3 is in TX mode, that
would immediately get my attention. Nothing could be clearer when
looking at a pileup.
Will that include the telepathy module so that the K3 knows when it
should be in split? Unless I've missed something it still needs the
operator to know when split is desired and initiate it.
My YL expects me to have the telepathy module running 24/7...
Gary KA1J
---
This email has been
Now, how can we help the guy that is in split but on the wrong VFO?
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
Will that include the telepathy module so that the K3 knows when it
should be in split? Unless I've missed something it still needs the
operator to know
I make it easy. I use two radios.
George, W6GF
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 8:55 AM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
wrote:
User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We
get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily
My .02
I think it's a good idea if Elecraft is willing to invest the time. I know
plenty of good operators who take the time to set split only to
accidentally bump a button that throws everything out of wack during the
rush of a new one. Then they continue to call thinking they're in split
because
Wayne,
You are boiling the ocean for a small issue.
I think a better CW decoder would help on CW, some op's can't copy up or Eu,
or JA, or
Jim
W6AIM
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Wednesday,
With all due respect, however..
There are two times during a contest when I can get tripped up with
SPLT or LINK or anything else that is not a firm habit or totally
rote:
STUPID -- my usual state after 24 hours with only scattered sleep,
worsened by pileups not there to keep me energized
Just make the choices an option in the config setting. Then, like everything
else on my beloved K3, it'll work the way i want it to work.
Larry, KN8N
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Will that include the telepathy module so that the K3 knows when it
should be in split? Unless I've missed something it still needs the
operator to know when split is desired and initiate it.
It's all getting out of perspective. The only programming needed is
that of the operator, aka
Thank you!
I need to be able to know both frequencies at a glance and not have
to wait a minute for the transmit cycle to end in JT65. Keeping the
present display as default works for me (and hopefully whatever
option you provide in the menu makes others happy).
73, Ed - KL7UW
From: Wayne
If I forget to put on a belt or suspenders, maybe there could be a sensor at
the door that would staple my pants to my waist. I'm just not a fan of trying
to make up for someones lack of attention to the job at hand. A car ad I saw on
TV recently concluded with the statement that by virtue of
This is almost exactly what I would want except I'm r/g colorblind and
want the cursor yellow.
It might help to have the TX cursor become red only while transmitting.
Then the sudden color change would act as a 'flash' and get your attention.
On 18 Feb 2015 17:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
This sounds like a harmless change and might even do some good. I wish
there were a good way to measure its effect, however, because I'm
betting it won't make a bit of difference in errors in using split. You
have to look at the K3 display for it to be effective and I believe that
is the
Situation awareness is the perception of environmental elements with
respect to time or space, the comprehension of their meaning, and the
projection of their status after some variable has changed, such as
time, or some other variable, such as a predetermined event. I guess we
need more
I believe the technical term for this is a splicket.
The mind boggles
Wayne
On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:36 AM, Guy n7un@gmail.com wrote:
Wayne,
While you are adding this warning feature, can you also add a cricket
sound that randomly chirps? User configurable, of course. Partly for
Personally, I think anything that might even slightly improve the chance
that an operator might detect the wrong mode is a good thing.
From the original description, this sounds like a minor code change, so it
isn't like it is taking a lot of firmware development time.
73, Bob, WB4SON
On Wed,
I can't tell you why, but I do know that I have had an issue with SPLIT more
so with the K3 then my former rigs. Deservedly so I have had the frequency
police alert me when I forgot to go split when I thought I was SPLIT. For
some reason I don't equate the yellow LED on the left side of the panel
I find myself in far more car accidents when driving and I take my hands off
the steering wheel to start doing Excel spreadsheets.
One needs to be situationally aware.
Jim
W6AIM
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dave
Sent:
Mike Reublin NF4L wrote:
If I forget to put on a belt or suspenders, maybe there could be a sensor at
the door that would staple my pants to my waist.
Of course not. But consider two companies that make pants. One company's pants
emit a discrete audible warning as you approach the front
Ted,
I think the chance of success with this change is pretty high, precisely
because you *won't* have to be looking at the radio. A complete rewrite of the
VFO A or B display on key-down is going to be very noticeable even with
peripheral vision.
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 18, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Ted
On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV spewed:
Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an anvil.
===
Untrue Joe... No
Hi Gary,
THANK YOU! That is exactly what has been happening here as well... I
will find myself out of split after checking a spot.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for
There you go, a 75A-4 and a DX-100.
On 2/18/2015 10:22 AM, george fritkin via Elecraft wrote:
I make it easy. I use two radios.
George, W6GF
O
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Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
I agree, this would work for me, and then the people that simply can't
stand it flashing, can turn it off...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
Be aware that this can be a huge problem when dealing with support or
asking for help, or even when someone walks up to your radio and theirs
works differently.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I can see flaws in all of
the suggestions.
For example, blinking a LED when
Yep. Pity the guy who still tunes to find DX and hasn't see a spot with split
info. He hears one of these stations and starts calling after a few QRZs.
He's lit on with a vengeance.
Same thing with DX working by continents or call areas that don't regularly
announce that either. Then you
On 2015-02-18 12:05 PM, Dwayne Rohmer wrote:
I suggested CONFIG: DELTA-F LED (nor or FLASH) as a solution to those
that need another flag to indicate SPLIT. If you don't want it, you
wouldn't have to configure it.
I agree that this is the least cost and least objectionable *additional*
split
On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:
Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
here...
I am reading *and* comprehending what has been said here. I've even
been guilty of not being split when I should be but *never* more than
one or two transmissions and most often
It's nice to see some recognition that the issue is not the same for
people using two receivers as for people using a single receiver, but I
am not sure how well the proposed solution will actually work in the
two-receiver sub-RX implied split (or reverse split) situation.
When I am using
Useful analysis, Rich. I agree this might cause some confusion.
Here's a simpler variation. Suppose we give operators the option of briefly
flashing the entire transmit VFO frequency off/on once each time you start
keying? This would duplicate the intent of the TX arrow, which points to
either
If it's an option, OK, but I am convinced that if an op misses the existing two
indicators on the LCD display, and the Δf yellow LED, then more indicators
aren't gonna help. And I am unanimous in my opinion.
I'd much rather see the effort go into separating VOX for data from VOX for SSB.
73,
Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is
in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real
errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're
having this conversation.
The problem is that you're still trying to reinforce a negative.
On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Mike Reublin NF4L n...@comcast.net wrote:
If it's an option, OK, but I am convinced that if an op misses the existing
two indicators on the LCD display, and the Δf yellow LED, then more
indicators aren't gonna help. And I am unanimous in my opinion.
:)
Well,
The fact that the K3 has the blessings of
Cognitive Science is most reassuring, Wayne. :-)
Phil W7OX
On 2/18/15 8:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We
get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily
Bravo!
Phil W7OX
On 2/18/15 7:30 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Any change we make in the way split is indicated would have to be enabled using
a menu entry. The present behavior will remain the default.
73,
Wayne
N6KR
__
Elecraft
Now that is a GREAT idea!
73,
Tom - W4BQF
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:30 AM
To: Carey Magee
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A way to show both SPLIT and
Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
indicate is not the case.
Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have
Reminds me of a snippett from a pileup:
Unknown station: IK5XXXQ UP UP UP don't you understand English?
Of course we have the same problem with guys trying to use code readers.
Either they are not decoding UP or don't understand what UP means.
73 de Brian/K3KO
On 2/18/2015 15:33 PM, Ted
please consider the addition of something on the P3 to indicate
split.
It's *ALREADY THERE* - the Transmit (VFO B) cursor is *RED* when
split. In addition, there is a separate (*THIRD*) red cursor
showing the transmit frequency when XIT is engaged.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 2015-02-18 10:31
User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We
get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily
acquire new ones. This is true no matter how much training we have. The
designer tries to take such issues into account up front, but sometimes
Joe,
Just because there are three indicators for SPLIT already doesn't mean that the
problem has been solved. Even crack operators have admitted during the past few
days that they occasionally forget their split state, with embarrassing
consequences. This is proof that the indications can and
Any change we make in the way split is indicated would have to be enabled using
a menu entry. The present behavior will remain the default.
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Carey Magee arsk2...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All:
Would this be able to be set as an option in the
Wayne,
If the user has a P3 connected, please consider the addition of
something on the P3 to indicate split. Most of my eye action is on the
P3 in a pileup, not on the frequency.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
Bingo! No amount of flashing on the K3 screen is going to correct poor
operating habits. Nothing can substitute for good operating practices
which become habits. It takes 2 seconds to check the K3 status before
sending. Make a habit. If you don't do that, you won't see anything
flashing
Dave (AB9CA),
Given your logic, we should get rid of all street signs, and stop
lights, and guard rails on bridges, and roads, because the drivers are
just initiative, and the crutch o guard rails is not needed for them.
Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
indicators
Dave,
I think what you are saying is exactly the case. Bless their soul, Elecraft
is trying to solve a human issue because folks don't pay attention to what
they are doing. The K3 works just fine and it is, in my opinion, NOT
Elecrafts task to solve the human issue.
73,
Tom - W4BQF
I dunno . . .
What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this
going to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.
If someone is not paying attention, they are not paying attention,
Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this behavior:
- If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows NON.SPLT on VFO B. (A is TX in
this case.)
- If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows SPLIT on VFO A. (B is TX in this
case.)
So, during keying in either case, the TX
Although I don't have a major problem the way it works now, I think the
change you suggest would actually help. There are times when I have made the
error of not operating split when I have wanted to, in spite of the current
indicators. I do watch the frequency readouts, so emphasizing the SPLIT
Hi All:
Would this be able to be set as an option in the Menu/Config Menu? I
currently am fine with split indication. If I include my logging program I
currently have 4 indicators to remind me.
Thanks
73,
Carey Magee, K2RNY
Rochester New York
Grid: FN13ef
arsk2...@gmail.com
On Wed, Feb 18,
Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:
Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is
in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real
errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're
having this conversation.
The problem is that
Wayne,
While you are adding this warning feature, can you also add a cricket
sound that randomly chirps? User configurable, of course. Partly for the
amazement factor, partly to keep me company late at night while chasing
DX. And it should only operate while I'm in split mode.
Maybe you could
It is the operator of the radio who must be in control of his
transmitter. When I go to a split operation I always set the K3 to do
that and I'm good to go.
However what happens is I rarely make the Q right away and I I'll
click on another spot I need to see how that is coming in and with my
The only real solution is signal decoding
that listens for UP and automatically engages split.
Even this won't work for those ops who rarely send UP. I listened to
one DX last evening, TI9/xx, who went 20 min without ID'ing and
*never* sent UP.
And . . . if you were to put decoding of
Are you suggesting that such notifications appear
on the LCD display, that the K3 assess your
behavior and show it to you? :-)
Phil W7OX
On 2/18/15 9:46 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
With all due respect, however..
There are two times during a contest when I can get tripped up with
SPLT
On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 16:45 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV hosed down the
Internet with:
On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:
Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
here...
I am reading *and* comprehending what has been said here. I've even
been guilty of not
Wayne says
I think the chance of success with this change is pretty high, precisely
because you *won't* have to be looking at the radio. A complete rewrite of
the VFO A or B display on key-down is going to be very noticeable even with
peripheral vision.
Wayne
N6KR
I say, thanks again for
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