Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 4:03:46 AM UTC-7, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 1 Nov 2019, at 22:10, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 3:57:39 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 31 Oct 2019, at 23:49, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 31,

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 1 Nov 2019, at 22:10, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 3:57:39 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 31 Oct 2019, at 23:49, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:04:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 30 Oct 2019,

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 3:57:39 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 31 Oct 2019, at 23:49, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:04:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 30 Oct 2019, at 21:50, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 31 Oct 2019, at 23:49, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:04:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 30 Oct 2019, at 21:50, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:53:10 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, Octo

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:04:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 Oct 2019, at 21:50, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:53:10 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:18:45 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 30 Oct 2019, at 21:50, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:53:10 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:18:45 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > On 10/29/2019 3:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UT

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

Still breathing. But I was not connected. s. > Il 31 ottobre 2019 alle 1.44 Alan Grayson ha scritto: > > > > On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 4:11:43 PM UTC-6, scerir wrote: > > > > I would revise my interpretation this way; the electron, > or whatever, behaves as a wav

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 4:11:43 PM UTC-6, scerir wrote: > > I would revise my interpretation this way; the electron, or whatever, > behaves as a wave when no information exists to distinguish which-way, and > that wave goes through both slits producing interference. When such > infor

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 4:36:58 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/30/2019 12:43 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > What descriptive term do you prefer? Those IR photons travel at the SoL. >> The point is that if there's information available for which-way, even if >> not observed, the in

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

I would revise my interpretation this way; the electron, or whatever, behaves as a wave when no information exists to distinguish which-way, and that wave goes through both slits producing interference. When such information exists, even if it isn't used or measured, the interference ceases to e

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/30/2019 12:43 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: What descriptive term do you prefer? Those IR photons travel at the SoL. The point is that if there's information available for which-way, even if not observed, the interference is destroyed. AG What does "available" mean?  The in

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:53:10 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:18:45 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/29/2019 3:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/29/2019 12:

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 29 Oct 2019, at 11:58, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:50 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 28 Oct 2019, at 21:17, Alan Grayson > wrote: >> Keep in mind that the wave I have been referring to, is a probability wave,

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 6:18:45 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2019 3:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/29/2019 12:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:18:45 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2019 3:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/29/2019 12:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/29/2019 3:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/29/2019 12:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/29/2019 11:43 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2019 12:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/29/2019 11:43 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> What does that mean? No one even detects them.

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/29/2019 12:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/29/2019 11:43 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: What does that mean?  No one even detects them.  They need not even be absorbed, but could simply fly off to infinity

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2019 11:43 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > What does that mean? No one even detects them. They need not even be >> absorbed, but could simply fly off to infinity. >> >> Brent >> > > What exactly is the situation? Inter

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/29/2019 11:43 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: What does that mean?  No one even detects them.  They need not even be absorbed, but could simply fly off to infinity. Brent What exactly is the situation? Interference is destroyed, more and more, as they get hotter, but without any

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 12:16:06 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2019 9:38 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/28/2019 3:27 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> But nobody looks at the C60s. The interference p

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/29/2019 9:38 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/28/2019 3:27 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: But nobody looks at the C60s.  The interference pattern disappears anyway.  The trouble with the interpretation you

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/28/2019 3:27 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > But nobody looks at the C60s. The interference pattern disappears >> anyway. The trouble with the interpretation you cite is that it depends on >> an ill defined process calle

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:50 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 28 Oct 2019, at 21:17, Alan Grayson wrote: > > Keep in mind that the wave I have been referring to, is a probability > wave, not a physical wave. AG > > > The whole “problem" is there. The amplitude of probability wave acts like > if it w

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 28 Oct 2019, at 21:17, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:37:54 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 26 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> On Thursday, October

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/28/2019 3:27 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > But nobody looks at the C60s. The interference pattern disappears >> anyway. The trouble with the interpretation you cite is that it depends on >> an ill defined process calle

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:37:54 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 26 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> On Th

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/28/2019 3:27 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: But nobody looks at the C60s.  The interference pattern disappears anyway.  The trouble with the interpretation you cite is that it depends on an ill defined process called "looking at it". Brent Let me introduce you to a familiar c

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 28 Oct 2019, at 11:27, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 1:11:12 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/27/2019 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/27/2019 3:41 PM, Alan Grayson wrote

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 27 Oct 2019, at 06:55, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 10:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:42:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > QM does suggest a particle can b

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 27 Oct 2019, at 06:42, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> QM does suggest a particle can be in several paths simultaneously, but we >> don't have a concept to understand how that can be. AG > > Who says we don't have tha

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 27 Oct 2019, at 04:07, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 7:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> Maybe this will work as a definition of "interference". Imagine an electron >> impinges on a screen in a double slit experiment, and at a particular >> location on

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 26 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > On Thursday, Oct

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:27 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 1:11:12 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> But nobody looks at the C60s. The interference pattern disappears >> anyway. The trouble with the interpretation you cite is that it depends on >> an ill defined process

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 1:11:12 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/27/2019 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/27/2019 3:41 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:27:09 PM UTC-

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/27/2019 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/27/2019 3:41 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:27:09 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/27/2019 2:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On S

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/27/2019 3:41 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:27:09 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/27/2019 2:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 2:52:01 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/26/2019 11:43 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Here'

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 4:27:09 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/27/2019 2:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 2:52:01 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/26/2019 11:43 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> Here's what I understand about an electron in the d

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/27/2019 2:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 2:52:01 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/26/2019 11:43 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Here's what I understand about an electron in the double slit experiment. It doesn't occupy two locations simultaneously as a

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 2:52:01 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 11:43 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > Here's what I understand about an electron in the double slit experiment. > It doesn't occupy two locations simultaneously as a particle. Rather, when > *not* observed it behave

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/26/2019 11:43 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Here's what I understand about an electron in the double slit experiment. It doesn't occupy two locations simultaneously as a particle. Rather, when *not* observed it behaves like a wave, goes through both slits, and interferes with itself. When obs

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 12:43:39 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:31:52 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:33:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:09:57 PM UTC-

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 7:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > Maybe this will work as a definition of "interference". Imagine an > > electron impinges on a screen in a double slit experiment, and at a > > particular location on the scre

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 12:43:23 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:55:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> On 10/26/2019 10:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:42:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On 10/26/2019 10:31

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:55:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 10:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:42:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > QM does suggest a particle can be in several

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/26/2019 10:48 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:42:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > QM does suggest a particle can be in several paths simultaneously, but > we don't have a concept to understand how that

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:42:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > QM does suggest a particle can be in several paths simultaneously, but > > we don't have a concept to understand how that can be. AG > > Who says we don't have that concept?

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:31:52 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:33:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:09:57 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 7:09:19 PM UTC

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/26/2019 10:31 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: QM does suggest a particle can be in several paths simultaneously, but we don't have a concept to understand how that can be. AG Who says we don't have that concept?  We have the mathematics to describe and predict it.  What more do you want...so

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:33:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:09:57 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 7:09:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 5:57:57 PM UTC-

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/26/2019 7:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Maybe this will work as a definition of "interference". Imagine an electron impinges on a screen in a double slit experiment, and at a particular location on the screen, called "the Event", through either of two slits. Suppose it has a probability a

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/26/2019 6:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: I don't have one. That's why I asked. One can show that Heisenberg's Picture, which doesn't use waves, gives the same results as Scroedinger's Picture, which uses waves, but that's no explanation of "interference". AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wi

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:09:57 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 7:09:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 5:57:57 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:19:06 PM UTC

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 7:09:19 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 5:57:57 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:21 PM UTC

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 5:57:57 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:21 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:09:08 PM UT

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:21 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:09:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:03:20 PM UTC

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:21 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:09:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:03:20 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:42:58 PM UT

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 4:09:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:03:20 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:42:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Why not make your point with waves so at least

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:03:20 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:42:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> Why not make your point with waves so at least it's intelligible? You can >> get the same results in the Heisenberg Picture, but to u

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:42:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > Why not make your point with waves so at least it's intelligible? You can > get the same results in the Heisenberg Picture, but to understand > "interference" you need to at least start with waves. AG > But that

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 2:26:48 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:15 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Ala

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:15:15 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-6, Philip Th

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:53:00 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 9:27:14 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 9:27:14 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:21:26 PM UTC-

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 9:27:14 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:21:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:03:20 AM UTC-6, Br

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 9:27:14 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:21:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:03:20 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/20/2019 10:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, Oc

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:21:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:03:20 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/20/2019 10:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 6:35:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Ala

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 21 Oct 2019, at 13:40, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 10:18 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > As you seem to disbelieve in the mechanist theory of mind, there is no > problem with your approach, even less if you limit yourself to the study of > lo

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 21 Oct 2019, at 13:17, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 10:08 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > As you cannot track the behaviour of all molecules, you are unable to extract > interference pattern from that superposition, and it will look like a mixe

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:03:20 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/20/2019 10:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 6:35:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrot

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 10:18 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > As you seem to disbelieve in the mechanist theory of mind, there is no > problem with your approach, even less if you limit yourself to the study of > local predictions FAPP. But from a fundamental science, that does not work. > Sorry Bru

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 21 Oct 2019, at 02:55, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> I thought you might say this. OK, then what function does decoherence ha

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 10:08 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > As you cannot track the behaviour of all molecules, you are unable to > extract interference pattern from that superposition, and it will look like > a mixed state. But without collapse of the wave, the cat, the molecules and > yourself wi

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 20 Oct 2019, at 08:21, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:14:21 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 16 Oct 2019, at 19:35, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/20/2019 10:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 6:35:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/19/2019 6:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: S

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 6:35:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/19/2019 6:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> Sean says the decoherence time is 10^(-20) sec. So when

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I thought you might say this. OK, then what function does decoherence have > in possibly solving the apparent paradox of a cat alive and d

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/20/2019 4:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/19/2019 6:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Sean says the decoherence time is 10^(-20) sec. So when the box is closed, the cat is in a superposition of alive and

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/19/2019 6:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > Sean says the decoherence time is 10^(-20) sec. So when the box is closed, >> the cat is in a superposition of alive and dead during that time interval, >> assuming the decay ha

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/19/2019 6:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: Sean says the decoherence time is 10^(-20) sec. So when the box is closed, the cat is in a superposition of alive and dead during that time interval, assuming the decay hasn't happened. If that's the case, I don't see how decoherence s

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:14:21 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Oct 2019, at 19:35, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote >> >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2019

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 20 Oct 2019, at 03:56, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:35:58 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > On 10/13/2019 9:10

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 16 Oct 2019, at 19:35, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > On 10/13/2019 9:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Br

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:35:58 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote >> >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2019 9:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, Octo

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/13/2019 9:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM,

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 7:08 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > > What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the decoherence > time! Whatever it is, it doesn't change my conclusion. If there's a > uncertainty in time, are you claiming the cat can be alive and dead during > any duration? Is this

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 14 Oct 2019, at 17:11, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:40:01 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 11:10:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/13/201

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 13 Oct 2019, at 21:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/13/2019 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 9 Oct 2019, at 12:52, Alan Grayson >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:28:38 AM UTC-6, Brent wro

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 13 Oct 2019, at 21:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 10/13/2019 6:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 9 Oct 2019, at 08:28, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/8/2019 9:20 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: I've argued this before,

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 13 Oct 2019, at 16:43, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 7:48:29 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 9 Oct 2019, at 12:52, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:28:38 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/8/2019 9:20 PM

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

> On 13 Oct 2019, at 16:36, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:30:19 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/1

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 4:54:27 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 12:17:08 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:11:41 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:40:01 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wr

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 12:17:08 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:11:41 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:40:01 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 11:10:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:51:03 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/13/2019 9:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 10:11:41 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:40:01 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 11:10:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Br

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/13/2019 9:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the decoherence > time! Whatever it is, it doesn't change my conclusio

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Monday, October 14, 2019 at 3:40:01 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 11:10:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> > What are

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 11:10:58 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the decoherence >> > time! Whatever it is

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 5:50:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the decoherence > > time! Whatever it is, it doesn't change my conclusion. If there's a > > uncertainty in time, are you cl

Re: Superposition Misinterpreted

On 10/13/2019 1:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: What are YOU talking about? I just made a GUESS about the decoherence time! Whatever it is, it doesn't change my conclusion. If there's a uncertainty in time, are you claiming the cat can be alive and dead during any duration?  Is this what decohere

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