Right. People who get college degrees get higher-paying jobs and
can afford more.
By the time those people are higher paying jobs they will no longer
be eligible for academic pricing. Its only while at college. I doubt
a company would base its academic pricing on your potential future
When I ordered my copy from jwpepper on a theological discount (our
community band is an off-shoot of the local church) I asked how I had to
prove my association to receive the discount. They told me what sort of
materials Coda Music Technology required and that if I satisfied Coda, I
was all
On Thursday, Aug 21, 2003, at 21:37 Europe/London, Mark D Lew wrote:
Right. People who get college degrees get higher-paying jobs and can
afford more.
Sometimes they do. Often they don't (music being a case in point). The
point is that they then pay full price for software, when they can
On Thursday, Aug 21, 2003, at 22:13 Europe/London, John Howell wrote:
Perhaps Dr Croft could confirm that in the English system of higher
education scholarships were originally awarded on merit to
scholars who could not live off daddy's money becuase daddy didn't
have enough to send them to
At 8/21/2003 03:54 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
This is also why one shouldn't get upset about paying $1,400 for an
airline seat at the gate and sitting next to someone who paid $200 --
That's me, I flew from Manchester, NH to San Diego 2 weeks ago for $99.
Someone pointed out to me that I should
At 07:29 AM 8/22/2003, Phil Daley wrote:
Someone pointed out to me that I should wait for the next Pre-something
release as I already have an old version and would then get a better
discount than the professional one.
Even ordering the regular, non-pre-order upgrade to 2004 will be about half
On 22 Aug 2003 at 11:39, John Croft wrote:
My point was that the
principle of offering lower prices to those who (1) need to have
software in order to complete their studies and (2) have a very low
income, is not something that we should complain about.
Another thing that I think people are
On Friday, August 22, 2003, at 02:39 AM, John Croft wrote:
Well, I'd be in favour of a struggling artist discount as well --
only, it's easier to decide who is really a student that assess
people's claims really to be an artist.
I can show a resume full of performances which were done for cheap
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 21:40 Europe/London, Mark D Lew wrote:
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I
understand the software company's motivation for offering them, of
course, but it still ticks me off to know that kids who are living
off their parents and/or
On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 06:22 PM, John Croft wrote:
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 21:40 Europe/London, Mark D Lew wrote:
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I
understand the software company's motivation for offering them, of
course, but it still ticks me off
At 8/21/2003 11:21 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
I think it's a smart business decision... Coda (for that is what they
were called at the time) sure hooked me on their product for a lifetime
by extending the academic discount. Also, you must remember that the
academic discount covers not only college
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 09:40 AM, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 11:21 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
I think it's a smart business decision... Coda (for that is what they
were called at the time) sure hooked me on their product for a
lifetime
by extending the academic discount. Also, you
At 12:40 PM 8/21/2003, Phil Daley wrote:
Since I am running 3.7.2 perhaps I should upgrade, since my wife is a
private music teacher.
The academic upgrade only applies to full-price purchases -- subsequent
upgrades are the same price for everybody. So while it would cost you $300
to buy Finale
At 8/21/2003 01:18 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 09:40 AM, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 11:21 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
I think it's a smart business decision... Coda (for that is what they
were called at the time) sure hooked me on their product for a
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 10:24 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote:
At 12:40 PM 8/21/2003, Phil Daley wrote:
Since I am running 3.7.2 perhaps I should upgrade, since my wife is a
private music teacher.
The academic upgrade only applies to full-price purchases --
subsequent upgrades are the same
/home.htm
-Original Message-
From: Phil Daley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 12:33 PM
To: Finale
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
At 8/21/2003 01:18 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 09:40 AM, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21
Private music teachers have to belong to a nationally recognized
organization such as Music Teachers of America (I think that's the name)
or Suzuki Association of the Americas.
Just the ordinary musician who teaches music lessons is s$#t out of luck!
Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 11:21 AM,
At 8/21/2003 01:42 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
MTNA = Music Teachers National Association
http://www.mtna.org/home.htm
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music teacher more
than giving 30+ years of piano lessons to 50+ students a week?
Phil Daley AutoDesk
At 1:53 PM -0400 8/21/03, Phil Daley wrote:
An how does joining that group [MTNA] certify that my wife is a music
teacher more
than giving 30+ years of piano lessons to 50+ students a week?
About the same way that belonging to a musicians union certifies that a
person is a professional musician,
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 10:53 AM, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 01:42 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
MTNA = Music Teachers National Association
http://www.mtna.org/home.htm
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music teacher
more than giving 30+ years of piano lessons
Every request must have some proof
I doubt that. It seems to depend on where you order.
Cheers,
Tobias
___
Finale mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Tobias Giesen wrote:
Every request must have some proof
I doubt that. It seems to depend on where you order.
Well, I was only talking about ordering from Coda. I'm sure there are
unscrupulous dealers out there who don't check.
-
Brad
On 21 Aug 2003 at 13:53, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 01:42 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
MTNA = Music Teachers National Association
http://www.mtna.org/home.htm
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music teacher
more than giving 30+ years of piano lessons to 50+
At 01:53 PM 8/21/2003 -0400, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 01:42 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
MTNA = Music Teachers National Association
http://www.mtna.org/home.htm
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music teacher
more than giving 30+ years of piano lessons to 50+ students
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 21:40 Europe/London, Mark D Lew wrote:
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I
understand the software company's motivation for offering them, of
course, but it still ticks me off to know that kids who are living
off their parents and/or
From: Phil Daley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music teacher more
than giving 30+ years of piano lessons to 50+ students a week?
Why the challenging tone? There are professional organizations aplenty, and
only in a few instances is it essential
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 01:03 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
At 01:53 PM 8/21/2003 -0400, Phil Daley wrote:
At 8/21/2003 01:42 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
MTNA = Music Teachers National Association
http://www.mtna.org/home.htm
An how does joining that group certify that my wife is a music
And, lest we forget, academic discounts apply to teachers too, who are not
exactly overpaid.
Ken
- Original Message -
From: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 07:21 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
Like Allen Fisher said, if it weren't for the academic discount on
Finale, I definitely would not have the job I have today.
Right. People who get college degrees get higher-paying jobs and can
afford more. If the rationale is to
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I
understand the software company's motivation for offering them, of
course, but it still ticks me off to know that kids who are living off
their parents and/or taxpayers get a better deal than others who have
to work for a living.
I
What is MTNA?
Phil Daley AutoDesk
Music Teachers National Association. But membership on the faculty
of a college with a music department is sufficient to get the
discount.
Hal
--
Harold Owen
2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit my web site at:
Craig Parmerlee wrote:
[snip]
I realize you are thinking about a different set of principles, but that
doesn't make Finale's value judgment wrong. I personally know a number
of people who have stolen the Finale software in the past, and most of
them are not clever enough to locate a crack
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 07:47 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Outrage is not a relevant reason for making a business decision. The
only reason is: this will make more money in the long run.
Now there's an interesting observation. It could explain a lot about
the business world
--
On
On 20 Aug 2003 at 0:14, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
At 11:47 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
Outrage is not a relevant reason for making a business decision. The
only reason is: this will make more money in the long run. Changing
your product to try to force money from people that have
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I understand
the software company's motivation for offering them, of course, but it
still ticks me off to know that kids who are living off their parents
and/or taxpayers get a better deal than others who have to work for a
living.
I
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 21:40 Europe/London, Mark D Lew wrote:
That's approximately how I feel about academic discounts. I
understand the software company's motivation for offering them, of
course, but it still ticks me off to know that kids who are living off
their parents and/or
[I was off on vacation for 3 weeks and just got back last night, so
I'm replying to a very old message to clarify a couple of things]
On 8 Aug 2003 at 17:01, Tobias Giesen wrote:
Dennis:
I'm not a tech junkie, and my tools are not obsolete.
Forgive me, but Windows 98 IS obsolete. It's a
[again, coming in on a discussion that occurred while I was on
vacation]
On 8 Aug 2003 at 11:36, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
As a software author myself, one who has been victimized by piracy and
cracks (just like everyone else), I must disagree with the sentiments
you expressed. I find the new
At 05:34 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
As a software developer who has also been stolen from, I support
Dennis's position. Honest customers will be honest no matter what.
Dishonest ones, likewise, will not generate any more income for you.
All you do with copy protection schemes is
On 19 Aug 2003 at 21:57, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
At 05:34 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
As a software developer who has also been stolen from, I support
Dennis's position. Honest customers will be honest no matter what.
Dishonest ones, likewise, will not generate any more income
Le 08/08/03 09:41, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit:
At 02:35 PM 8/8/03 +0200, d. collins wrote:
And what about installing it and using on a laptop with no internet
connection? Is that easily done?
Does that mean this is okay with you? Not even a whisper of protest?
Everybody
At 12:50 AM 8/8/03 +0200, Jari Williamsson wrote:
I've now put a Finale 2004 review with some tips on the tips site. I'll
correct all the typos tomorrow...
http://www.finaletips.nu/
Here I find:
Finale 2004 has copy protection. You can read how it works on MakeMusic!'s
own site.
I go there and
Great review. Thanks!
Ray Horton
- Original Message -
From: Jari Williamsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:50 PM
Subject: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
Hello!
I've now put a Finale 2004 review with some tips on the tips site. I'll
Only if they're answering the phones at CodaMusic (or Net4Music or
MakeMusic) that day.
d. collins wrote:
Thanks to David for explaining the system.
Jari Williamsson:
The challenge/response system is seamless if you do the registration
over the internet. In that case, there's no extra user
At 10:55 AM 8/8/03 -0500, Richard Huggins wrote:
I think Coda/MM has the right to employ some method of copy protection. If
technically they goofed by using the words no copy protection, that's a
gaffe they may already regret. Perhaps the words smart copy protection
would have been better (and I'm
I hope Finale's system will be a user-specific
challenge/response and not a computer/specific system.
I see, like measuring nose and ears?
Or, worse yet, I certainly hope it isn't like Sibelius's system
No, it isn't. I think you can actually install it three times and all will
print and
Tobias Giesen writes:
I'm sure these people will
make Finale survive, including older versions.
Yes, a thing that seem to support this is the fact that you can still
download patches for very old Finale versions, such as Finale 2.2.
Many companies only provides download of fixes for the last
At 04:10 PM 8/8/03 +0200, d. collins wrote:
But I'm only at the stage where I'm trying to understand what's
going on.
So I'm also very wary, and would like to know how
troublesome this one will be.
Since Makemusic chose to dissemble on their website, I don't trust them
now. Period.
Anything
: Re: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
At 02:35 PM 8/8/03 +0200, d. collins wrote:
And what about installing it and using on a laptop with no internet
connection? Is that easily done?
Does that mean this is okay with you? Not even a whisper of protest?
Everybody else thinks this is fine, too
At 10:38 AM 8/8/2003 -0400, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Within days, if not hours, of the new version being out, there will be
cracks available.
Don't be so sure. There were multiple cracks for every version of software
I produced. I had a very primitive protection system that was easy to
This action depended on Gadget Labs' essential integrity. I think
Makemusic damaged that integrity by their dissembling description
of 'no copy protection' on the website. That means I don't trust
them to do what Gadget Labs did.
Just because the *marketing* guys found euphemisms for
At 12:50 PM 8/8/03 +0200, I wrote:
I know many people are against such things but they are starting to be
a fact of the new decade.
Dennis:
Not yet in my experience. I'll do without.
...
I stopped at Win98SE for the same reason --
no Big Brother in my pockets.
See, you're still in last
Dennis:
I'm not a tech junkie, and my tools are not obsolete.
Forgive me, but Windows 98 IS obsolete. It's a piece of you-know-what.
Admittedly, it's not your fault that it took Microsoft until Windows XP to
get it right.
... if you can show me one thing that I need to
do on XP that I can't
At 02:35 PM 8/8/03 +0200, d. collins wrote:
And what about installing it and using on a laptop with no internet
connection? Is that easily done?
Does that mean this is okay with you? Not even a whisper of protest?
Everybody else thinks this is fine, too?
It's not with me. I just sent this email
- Original Message -
From: Tobias Giesen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
Unless
all the key figures die at the same time, there should be no situation
that
will make Finale 2004 unusable
Hi,
well there is no copy protection in that the CD can be copied freely and
installed freely but the installed product needs to be activated thru
registration (challenge/response).
I think you can install it on three computers before having to talk to
somebody at MakeMusic and explain what
David:
I hope Finale's system will be a user-specific
challenge/response and not a computer/specific system.
I see, like measuring nose and ears?
Or, worse yet, I certainly hope it isn't like Sibelius's system
No, it isn't. I think you can actually install it three times and all will
print
But Dennis, you already gave us the solution long time ago. You buy the
upgrade, keep the box unopened and use a cracked version like somebody else.
Now don´t tell me that is illegal because it is not. All pro-audio users
know the problem with Digidesign and his floppy-disk authorizations.
And
At 03:54 PM 8/8/03 +0200, Davo van Peursen wrote:
Take it easy.
Why should we be disappointed or even furious?
Don't forget that estimated 70% of the use of Finale is illegal.
It is copied on music schools etc.
So far Finale did survive with their unprotected policy.
But it is wise to protect
Hi fellow listers,
I wonder if this is the call/response system that
Sibelius uses and that Microsoft now employs, where
the installation generates a huge alpha-numeric code
that you have to report to MakeMusic and they return
you an answering code.
It sounds to me *exactly* like the
Most of the Microsoft employees also use Windows, yet they are orphaning
operating systems on a regularly scheduled basis, so I don't think that
your argument holds here -- I'm willing to bet that all the CodaMusic
employees who use Finale always use the most recent version and so have
no
I hope Finale's system will be a user-specific
challenge/response and not a computer/specific system.
I see, like measuring nose and ears?
Or, worse yet, I certainly hope it isn't like Sibelius's system
No, it isn't. I think you can actually install it three times and all will
print and
On 08.08.2003 18:59 Uhr, Tobias Giesen wrote
I have had personal (albeit mostly via email) contact with many Coda
employees, and I am deeply convinced that if there is one company that you
can trust, it's them.
Many Coda employees, including decision-makers and chief software developers
Hi,
well there is no copy protection in that the CD can be copied freely and
installed freely but the installed product needs to be activated thru
registration (challenge/response).
I think you can install it on three computers before having to talk to
somebody at MakeMusic and explain what
A challenge/response system is where the program generates a code which
you have to respond to with a different code. To receive your response
code, you have to call the publisher (makemusic in this case) with your
challenge code and they will give you the correct (hopefully) response
code
Tobias Giesen wrote:
[snip]
The only problem would be when they cease to exist. But even then, you must
be aware that there are some very nice people behind this. MakeMusic
employees are Finale users, just like you and me. I'm sure these people will
make Finale survive, including older
Folks --
This looked like it might be an excellent upgrade. For some it may
be. I personally cannot make any software purchase which ties my
future use of the product to someone else's continued benevolence and
the continuing existence of their servers.
I purchased the Finale 2004 update on
Hey, hey, Richard, calm down: you are being excessive hostile to Dennis´s
supposedly excessive hostile reaction...
FYI there is an audio company that dropped all copy protection an all its
products and actually have seen an increase in sales and revenues.
Javier Ruiz
P.S. 38 degrees today...
Hi,
well there is no copy protection in that the CD can be copied freely and
installed freely but the installed product needs to be activated thru
registration (challenge/response).
I think you can install it on three computers before having to talk to
somebody at MakeMusic and explain what
-Kitsz
Sent: Friday, August 8, 2003 15:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [Finale] Finale 2004 Review
At 02:35 PM 8/8/03 +0200, d. collins wrote:
And what about installing it and using on a laptop with no internet
connection? Is that easily done?
Does that mean this is okay with you
As a software author myself, one who has been victimized by piracy and
cracks (just like everyone else), I must disagree with the sentiments you
expressed. I find the new Finale policy quite reasonable. Anybody who
intended to live honestly by the license should have little difficulty with
Jari,
Thanks a million for your review of Finale 2004.
Although I haven't used it, I think praise is warranted. It seems to me that
if they'd only done half of the improvements and new features they've done,
it still would be worth buying.
--Richard
From: Jari Williamsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This part makes sense. Sort of like having a will in the files of an
attorney rather than in a desk in a room in a house which burns down along
with the only people who knew about it and what it said (to use an awful
analogy).
In the case of a bankruptcy, for example, there is a chance (though
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz writes:
Here I find:
Finale 2004 has copy protection. You can read how it works on MakeMusic!'s
own site.
I go there and read:
There is no copy protection, no key disks, no inconvenience.
Which is true? If there really is copy protection, I intend to cancel my
David H. Bailey writes:
There has to be some sort of code you enter into the installation or
else how could the program know whether or not to disable aspects of the
program after 30 days if you haven't registered?
The challenge/response system is seamless if you do the registration
over
Le 08/08/03 10:38, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit:
I am not hugely overreacting. If you want overreaction, talk to me
off-list. :)
:-)
First of all, cracks will be there ASAP. The only penalty is to legal
users.
I still don't see how we are victimized or penalized. The way
From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does that mean this is okay with you?
Yes, it's fine with me.
Not even a whisper of protest?
No, not a whisper of protest.
Everybody else thinks this is fine, too?
I can't speak for everyone else.
I think your reaction is excessively hostile,
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