] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Everyone should read David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. Stephenson's Anathema is
also a must read, much better than Cyptonomicon IMO.
On Oct 8, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
> Ok, so I've decided my literary education is somewhat lacking
Everyone should read David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. Stephenson's Anathema is
also a must read, much better than Cyptonomicon IMO.
On Oct 8, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
> Ok, so I've decided my literary education is somewhat lacking and would like
> to know this group's recomm
Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
On Oct 9, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
> Likewise, I am keenly aware as well that we are largely reading only
> in Western European and American works. Can any folks on this list
> who we
Favorite one? Well, I love the whole interplay with DEATH and his
granddaughter, so I agree that Thief of Time is excellent. For my favorite
I'm going to go with one of the city watch books though ... either Night
Watch or Jingo. (Night Watch overall is better, but that bit near then end
of Jing
I have never heard of him, Tory, lord help me. The second most widely read
author in the UK and the seventh most widely read non-US author here. I
wonder who compiled that statistic. But there's glory for you nonetheless.
Thanks to all for mentioning him -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratch
Du hast Recht.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Victoria Hughes
wrote:
> Just checking - this is the Friam list and not the discuss list, right?
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
>
> Me thinks submissions are continuing to digress away from the Best Works
> for a Lit
That's right because I started out interested in what this
science/technology oriented community would recommend. I suspect the
Discuss list would have a completely different perspective given that
there's a big artist component.
Thanks
Robert C
On 10/11/10 12:00 PM, Victoria Hughes wrote:
Just checking - this is the Friam list and not the discuss list, right?
On Oct 11, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
Me thinks submissions are continuing to digress away from the Best
Works for a Literary Education goal.
Thanks
Robert C
On 10/11/10 11:30 AM, Victoria Hughes wrot
Well, yes but have you read him?
Despite being an enormous fan I did not mention him until three others
had done so.
On Oct 11, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
Me thinks submissions are continuing to digress away from the Best
Works for a Literary Education goal.
Thanks
Rob
Me thinks submissions are continuing to digress away from the Best
Works for a Literary Education goal.
Thanks
Robert C
On 10/11/10 11:30 AM, Victoria Hughes wrote:
Great to meet yet another Pratchett fan.
If you had to pick one Pratchett, which would it be?
I'd go for Thief of Time...
Tory
Great to meet yet another Pratchett fan.
If you had to pick one Pratchett, which would it be?
I'd go for Thief of Time...
Tory
On Oct 11, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Ted Carmichael wrote:
S difficult to find only ten. And I'm not sure what to do with
the "literature" requirement ... I like well-
*S* difficult to find only ten. And I'm not sure what to do with the
"literature" requirement ... I like well-written stories that transcend
genre, but I wouldn't claim that is enough. And while I would
recommend *everything
*from, say, Terry Pratchett or P.G. Wodehouse, I've tried to pick ty
orning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Restricting to just novels --
"Ulysses" by James Joyce
"A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" by James Joyce
"Moby Dick" (1849) by Herman Melville
"The Sound and th
Being here in Italy, Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose comes to mind. The
translation is considered quite good, and it reads very well.
Owen
I am an iPad, resistance is futile!
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets F
; is a language, not a field
of specialization. We're talking "literature" here.
Nick
From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 9:28 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Gro
The Odyssey -
Genji Monogatari - I liked Seidensticker's translation, though it was years
before I finally finished reading it. I see there's yet another translation
available now.
The Journey to the West - how the dharma came to the middle kingdom, and no
abbreviated description could do it jus
Nick -
Why would I want a PhD to lead a discussion on Literature?
Because, even though I was a participant in the Berkeley dustup of the
sixties, I still think that expertise has its place in the world.
I wasn't actually criticizing your desire for a PhD in English to lead
the seminar, but
Thanks everyone for the tremendous response to this topic. However,
we now have over 100 submissions from which to elect the 10 Best
Fictional Works for a literary education!
I think we should stop here because that's a lot to choose from.
Shortly, I'll distribute the list for folks to vote
a meal/scotch/cigarette. Works for us...
- Claiborne -
-Original Message-
From: Pamela McCorduck
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >
Sent: Sat, Oct 9, 2010 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
On 9 Oct 2010 at 23:17, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Steve Smith and Lee Rudolph, and everybody,
>
> Why would I want a PhD to lead a discussion on Literature?
>
> Because, even though I was a participant in the Berkeley dustup of the
> sixties, I still think that expertise has its place in the w
On Oct 9, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
Likewise, I am keenly aware as well that we are largely reading only
in
Western European and American works. Can any folks on this list who
were
raised outside this tradition, weigh in? Additionally, I
appreciated the
sci-fi variant, and wou
lexity Coffee Group
Sent: Sat, Oct 9, 2010 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
And I (also) say "Why English", why not World Literature or something
more expansive... and for the benefit of the women on thi
Don't forget "Sound and Sense" by Laurence Perrine.
Grant Holland
VP, Product Development and Software Engineering
NuTech Solutions
404.427.4759
On 10/9/2010 6:29 PM, Stephen Thompson wrote:
Pamela & Steve:
Winging their way to me via the magic of the Internet
and Amazon Books are three boo
,
Nick
From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 5:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Lee -
Why would you want to ask a PhD in
1. A Course in Miracles, J. Christ, 1975 -- JC through Helen Schucman,
Columbia University Medical Center research psychologist, in 1965-1972, the
foundation for post-Christian Christianity -- as a willing victim of this
relentless subversion of all concepts since August, 1977, I never tire of
Group
Sent: Sat, Oct 9, 2010 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
And I (also) say "Why English", why not World Literature or something
more expansive... and for the benefit of the women on this list... why
On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:34 PM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
And I (also) say "Why English", why not World Literature or something
more expansive... and for the benefit of the women on this list...
why
do we (mostly) read the words of "dead white men"? Really? Without
going all feminist, I'd really l
Pamela -
Great reference... thanks! A couple of Trollopes! I'll mention it to
my wife, she probably has a copy somewhere or will find one within a
week (really, she is *that good*) ...
Sigh. Not much of an option in Manhattan. You've gotta discard.
Especially when you calculate what it'
I read Lubbock many years ago, and he's got much good to say, as does
E. M. Forster on the novel, and even, if I recall right, Henry James.
But I prefer Wood. Your mileage may vary.
Menand's "The Metaphysical Club" is good stuff too, but dense, I agree.
P.
On Oct 9, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Steph
On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
Pamela -
When I hear someone say "I never read fiction," I'm a little
saddened. It comes to my ears like "I never look at art." When one
starts getting all hairy-chested about the greater value of non-
fiction over make-believe, please be remi
Pamela & Steve:
Winging their way to me via the magic of the Internet
and Amazon Books are three books: two recommended here:
1. James Woods "How Fiction Works"
2. Zelazny's "Jack of Shadows"
and one recommended by a reviewer of Wood's book (not a happy review)
Percy Lubbock's "The Craft of
> And I (also) say "Why English", why not World Literature or something
> more expansive... and for the benefit of the women on this list... why
> do we (mostly) read the words of "dead white men"? Really? Without
> going all feminist, I'd really like to have more submissions here of
> w
Lee -
/Why would you want to ask a PhD in English to "lead"
you? Ph.D.s in English are to the joy of reading
fiction or poetry as firefighters are to fires./
I think I understand Nick's need for a PhD-person... (something about
establishing credibility in the whole City College thi
On 9 Oct 2010 at 16:04, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Perhaps you could gin up a reading group for the City University of Santa Fe
> Spring Coffee House Seminars. Do we know anybody with a PhD in English who
> would lead us?
I know that, being unacquainted as I am with the CVs
of the Friends and
Steph T.
For scifi, my Fahrenheit451 book is "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny
I'll see your "Lord" and raise you a "Jack" (of Shadows)... Zelazny (our
own hometown boy) was awesome... I miss him. And his works.
FRIAM Applied Com
Pamela -
When I hear someone say "I never read fiction," I'm a little saddened.
It comes to my ears like "I never look at art." When one starts
getting all hairy-chested about the greater value of non-fiction over
make-believe, please be reminded of the books you pull off your shelf
to make r
...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf
Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 9:14 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
The situation so far... in case you are not keeping count:
Given some
up
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Nick -
I teach a Junior level course for our Honors Program. Our program is open
to students from all majors, so my "audience" in the class comes from
everywhere -- majors of students in the class this Fall range across Art,
En
On 10/9/10 1:27 PM, Victoria Hughes wrote:
and even us lurkers
(10 !? can't even begin to get it down to ten, thus the absence of
presence)
are getting a kick
and
learning a lot
from this all...
And no fair submitting 10 (only 10?) Terry Pratchett Novels... though I
think I have a couple of y
ulia
From: pam...@well.com
To: friam@redfish.com
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 16:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
When I hear someone say "I never read fiction," I'm a little saddened. It comes
to my ears like "I never look at art." When one starts getting al
e context in which you are reading these
> things?
>
> Nick
>
> From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf
> Of Tom Carter
> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:07 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [
Thanks for the Yeats, Robert. He's one of my favorites, and was even
before I knew there was a tenuous family connection.
P.
On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Stephen Thompson wrote:
Steve:
There are so many good suggestions I despair of finding the
Classic Comics version of all these books - th
Steve:
There are so many good suggestions I despair of finding the
Classic Comics version of all these books - that's the only way
I will get through them all. (An HS teacher said when you get to college,
read the first and last 2 chapters then read the classic comic for the
middle
- its fast
Hi, I get to claim both lurkership and newbie-ship here, and have enjoyed this
thread.
This is an interesting idea, Pamela, that literature has endured, more than
non-fiction. It feels intuitively true as we look back on various canon(s).
It does all sorts of
I come from the opposite direct
m [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf
Of Tom Carter
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
All -
10??? Oh, well . . .
When I was a kid, my parents installed this in the
When I hear someone say "I never read fiction," I'm a little saddened.
It comes to my ears like "I never look at art." When one starts
getting all hairy-chested about the greater value of non-fiction over
make-believe, please be reminded of the books you pull off your shelf
to make room for
On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:28 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Have I missed something? I don't recall having seen anything by
Philip Roth on anyone's list. And now that I think about it, I've
been musing for some time about the dearth of neurotic Jewish
intellectuals in Friam
Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Have I missed something? I don't recall having seen anything by Philip Roth
on anyone's list. And now that I think about it, I've been musing for some
time about the dearth of neuroti
and even us lurkers
(10 !? can't even begin to get it down to ten, thus the absence of
presence)
are getting a kick
and
learning a lot
from this all...
Tory
On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
On 10/9/10 11:10 AM, Grant Holland wrote:
Thanks, Steve. I've noticed that the bread
Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Have I missed something? I don't recall having seen anything by Philip
Roth on anyone's list. And now that I think about it, I've been musing
for some time about the dearth of neurotic Jewish intellectuals in
Friam--especially noteworthy given our Complexity forefathers:
Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Thank you for mentioning Richard Powers. And don't forget Powers' "The
Time of Our Singing", an extraordinary imaginative leap into the
complexities of racial identity.
Tom Carter wrote:
All -
10??? Oh, well . . .
When I was a kid, my parents installed this in t
On 10/9/10 11:10 AM, Grant Holland wrote:
Thanks, Steve. I've noticed that the breadth of you reading is
exceptional.
And that is just the stuff I'm willing to admit to on-list I'll save
the really juicy stuff for another forum.
Most places I'm askeered to admit to reading Russel and Whit
Here's some in random order.
The Age of Reason, Jean Paul Sartre
The Tale of Genji, Lady Murasaki
For Whom the Bell Tolls, Ernest Hemingway
The Beautiful and Damned, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen
Cervantes, Don Quixote
The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Victor Hugo
Labyrinths, Jor
All -
10??? Oh, well . . .
When I was a kid, my parents installed this in the living room (you can still
sometimes find it in used book stores -- saw one a few years ago for $150,
missing Marx and Freud !). I learned a lot :-):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_We
I make no claims about being among the "10 Best" but here are a few selections
not previously mentioned.
Cat's Cradle - Kurt Vonnegut
Candide - Voltaire
Perhaps something by John Steinbeck? I guess the obvious is The Grapes of
Wrath but I hated it for some reason (perhaps because I grew up in
Thanks, Steve. I've noticed that the breadth of you reading is
exceptional.
Grant Holland
VP, Product Development and Software Engineering
NuTech Solutions
404.427.4759
On 10/9/2010 10:45 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
Grant -
Thanks for the reminder, I haven't visited Castenada since I was in my
Stephen -
Good points all. Most of us went off on a "my favorite reads" jag with
only a minor interest in whether it was "Literature" by any nominal or
not-so-nominal standard.
It doesn't surprise me that most of us have a collective
double-standard. In our own fields of study/expertise
Saul -
I love (most of) your list. Great Ante.
I think you might mean "A Scanner Darkly" by Dick, but there appear to
be as many as 5 novels by the Title "Through a Glass Darkly"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_a_Glass_Darkly and then there is
Sheridan le Fanu's 1872 collection of Got
Grant -
Thanks for the reminder, I haven't visited Castenada since I was in my
twenties... perhaps he deserves a revisit. At the time I slogged
through several of his works because everyone was raving so much about
them (not unlike the ravings about Cormac's work)... they just came off
as w
Oops...
I'll mention two. Far from great literature, but I still enjoy reading
it is "Journey to Ixtlan" - Carlos Castaneda. (I know it is advertised
as "Sociology", but I regard it as Fantasy.)
Another great Fantasy (although held by most as mathematical logic) is
Kurt Godel's 1931 paper "
I'd add to Jack's criteria: 9) deep exploration of a particular culture
at a moment in time. Jonathan Franzen's Freedom. Hate to say it
because it's been so over-hyped, but it's that good, right up there with
Huck Finn and Jay Gatsby. I think it will 10) stand the test of time.
Merle
Ro
The situation so far... in case you are not keeping count:
Given some restrictions, like only accepting the first 10 mentioned by
anyone ... so far we have 73 submissions, 4 have been recommended 3
times, 9 have been recommended twice and the rest once. And just to
confirm that my literary
Grant,
James Joyce has been mentioned twice, Woolf once... and your top 10 are?
but you're right about Proust.
Thanks
Robert C
On 10/9/10 8:31 AM, Grant Holland wrote:
What? Nobody mentioned Proust, James Joyce or Woolf? (I'm not going to.)
Grant
Grant Holland
VP, Product Development and S
Somebody did mention "To the Lighthouse," and I'd agree. I mentioned
admiring, without particularly liking (except in parts) "Ulysses." The
Scott-Moncrieff translation of "Remembrance of Things Past" is heavy
weather; a later translation (sorry; it's on a high shelf) lets
Proust's humor sho
What? Nobody mentioned Proust, James Joyce or Woolf? (I'm not going to.)
Grant
Grant Holland
VP, Product Development and Software Engineering
NuTech Solutions
404.427.4759
On 10/8/2010 11:54 PM, Alison Jones wrote:
After 10 years of lurking something I can finally comment on.
In no particlu
Most of you are PhDs and respond to inquiries from the
non-science type to aspects of your field(s). So how about asking
a college in the English Lit or World Lit department?
Robert, you mentioned you are going to improve your literary
education, so the works will generally be older because tho
All great suggestions and timely since my library book is due back
tomorrow. I'll add a couple of other suggestions:
The English Patient (Ondaatje)
Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance (Persig) (not sure if this
counts as fiction)
A Glass Darkly (Philip K Dick)
On the Road (Kerouac)
Unbearabl
After 10 years of lurking something I can finally comment on.
In no particlular order:
Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin
Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol
Midnight's Children by Salman Rushdie
Sometime a Great Notion by Ken Kesey
Beloved by Toni Morrison
Middlemarch by George
Steve
re: Brown...
You have to pick specific volumes! Sorry if I didn't make that clear,
otherwise someone could suggest a decalogy and 9 others, ie 19 works!
Thanks
Robert C
On 10/8/10 11:22 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
I'd add "Sometimes a Great Notion", by Ken Kesey
and pretty much any vol
I'd add "Sometimes a Great Notion", by Ken Kesey
and pretty much any volume of Encyclopedia Brown. That kid can solve
anything.
-S
_
step...@redfish.com
(m) 505-216-6226 (o) 505-995-0206
sfcomplex.org | simtable.com | ambientpixel.co
Trying to reduce a high-dimensional and subjective data set to a
one-dimensional well-ordered set is a fools errand.
I love hearing other's favorites and opinions of what makes a work of
fiction literature and what makes one work better than another.
I think Jack's criteria here are somewhat
Well, like an exercise program, the best books are the one's one
actually rereads.
I was that liberal arts major, until I came across computer science,
then all was lost, then complexity and developmental biology, and all
was *really* lost...virtually nothing on the English major curriculum i
Lists like this are always a bit odd. I got dressed down last night
(gently but firmly) by a professor of English who couldn't believe
that I thought Brothers K. was the most tedious thing I've ever read
half of (couldn't drive myself to read the second half). I like other
Dostoevsky--just
Doug -
Geeze, doesn't anybody like good science fiction any more? Larry
Nivin's Ringworld. Poul Anderson's Gateway series.
I love that shit (much of SF)... but don't quite want to call most of it
literature... great storytelling and exposition of esoteric scientific
concepts... but not qu
R -
So I take it that our working definition of "best" is "will look good
on the coffee table and impress liberal arts graduates" rather than
"will be read and enjoyed"? ;-)
I don't think that was the original question. Is it evidenced in some
of the answers? Or is this just Doug spoofing yo
Geeze, doesn't anybody like good science fiction any more? Larry Nivin's
Ringworld. Poul Anderson's Gateway series.
--Doug
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> I've just been reading a collection of Twain's writings on writing itself.
>
> Therefore I have to offer the classic
Hugh Trenchard wrote circa 10-10-08 02:56 PM:
> The Glass Bead Game, by Hermann Hesse, is a must-read for any
> self-respecting complexity theorist :-)
+1
I was also _very_ fond of Narcissus and Goldmund... Oh! Oh! and
Siddhartha and Steppenwolf, as well.
I'd also add the following to the list
I've just been reading a collection of Twain's writings on writing itself.
Therefore I have to offer the classic Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
It is the classic American Novel, and not just (though especially) for
young men.
I squirm at Frank's recommendation of (anything by?) Cormac McCa
So I take it that our working definition of "best" is "will look good on the
coffee table and impress liberal arts graduates" rather than "will be read
and enjoyed"? ;-)
-- R
P.S. Also: when selecting foreign authors you must specify the translation
if you are going to maximize your pseud points.
t; cheers, Paul
>>
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: q...@aol.com
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 3:39 pm
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
>>
>> Robert --
>>
>> The St. John's graduate in m
Restricting to just novels --
"Ulysses" by James Joyce
"A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" by James Joyce
"Moby Dick" (1849) by Herman Melville
"The Sound and the Fury" (1929) by William Faulkner
"The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
"Crime and Punishment: by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
"A
The Glass Bead Game, by Hermann Hesse, is a must-read for any
self-respecting complexity theorist :-)
Hugh
- Original Message -
From: "Robert J. Cordingley"
To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:44 PM
Subject: [FRIAM] The Best 10
ormat:* Paperback
> *Publication date:* 07 Nov 2009
>
>
> cheers, Paul
>
> -Original Message-
> From: q...@aol.com
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 3:39 pm
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
>
> Robert --
>
>
:39 pm
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Best 10 Fictional Works
Robert --
The St. John's graduate in me says "whoopie"! Here are 10, in no particular
order:
Shakespeare: Sonnets
Shakespeare: Romeo & Juliet
Dante: The Divine Comedy
Homer: The Iliad
Tolstoy: War & Peace
Cerva
Robert --
The St. John's graduate in me says "whoopie"! Here are 10, in no particular
order:
Shakespeare: Sonnets
Shakespeare: Romeo & Juliet
Dante: The Divine Comedy
Homer: The Iliad
Tolstoy: War & Peace
Cervantes: Don Quixote
Eliot: Middlemarch
Austen: Pride & Prejudice
Fitzgerald: The Great G
I would have to vote for the Bible. Its arguably not great fiction,
but its probably the most influential work of fiction in the English
language.
Cheers ;).
On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 01:44:31PM -0600, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
> Ok, so I've decided my literary education is somewhat lacking and
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