user friendly
extremely when there is a good reason to :D.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net
To: Thomas Ward Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Python and Interactive Fiction
Hi
Hi Laurel,
You need to save the file as a plain ASCII text file with the name
hangman3.dat. And by default the folder that you need to save the file in
would be;
c:\program files\kitchensinc
Well unless you are running Windows 7. Then I guess that it is something like
c:\program files
Hi Trouble,
Yeah, I was told a long time ago that the only reason they want business
standard code is so that you can be replaced. Personally I can go back to code
I wrote decades ago and still know exactly what I was doing. But I do know
that my code is not for others. I mean the first
There were 268 thread titles. Here are the top 50.
Mysteries of the Ancients News 122.
Any chance of making huge cave work with windows? 61.
Adult Games was Huge Cave 59.
Possible New MOTA Story 48.
Swamp question 43.
Great Trek 2000 Battle 40.
looking for an accessible version of risk
97 people posted 1565 messages.
190 From, Thomas Ward.
138 From, dark.
113 From, Clement Chou.
72 From, michael barnes.
67 From, Charles Rivard.
59 From, Jim Kitchen.
51 From, shaun everiss.
42 From, Yohandy.
35 From, Jeremy Kaldobsky.
35 From, Phil Vlasak.
33 From, Hayden Presley
Hi Laurel,
In 1980 I bought a Texas Instruments 99 4a home computer. I typed in the
programming examples from the manual that came with it. I then experimented
with the source code trying to figure out what each command did and how to
change it to do what I wanted it to do. I just have
Hi Shaun,
I really don't know what you mean by;
vb is dropping away soon so all devs need to switch.
So that means that you are not playing any of the games by me, David Greenwood,
Phil Vlasak, Jeremy Kaldobsky etc etc right?
BFN
- Original Message -
hmmm bgt doesn't have an ide as
Hi Thomas,
That is very cool that you can simulate in BGT what I do in VB6. I also like
in VB6 that I can put the cursor on a command, press f1 and f6, and get the
syntax, explanation and examples of that command. And of course it all works
great with JFW 4.02.
BFN
- Original Message
Hi Johnny,
Yeah, I figured that it would be more of a ripping and clinging thing than the
puncture and heavy hit of the forged spiked metal balls.
BFN
- Original Message -
Lol yeah, the best part is if you hit with mine the barbs grab onto clothing
and you can pull the person in- I
Hi Johnny,
Now that sounds like a pretty mean flail even if the barbs may not be as strong
as the forged spiked balls.
BFN
- Original Message -
Lol, what I did was I took a huge boundle of old steel guitar wires- I keep
them around even after I replace them, I plated them and packed
Hi Gabriel,
Not to start an argument, and I know that BGT is far better for creating games,
especially for a new programmer, but one reason that I still very much like to
create my games in VB6 is because I write and test run the code right in the
VB6 IDE. And if there are any errors, it
Hi Charles,
To tell you the truth, I am the only one in my family that is into chess, so we
have never sat and watched the wizard's chess games. Although I have heard
taunting and large up roars from the game when I have been near where the games
are played.
BFN
Jim
The roundest
Hi Johnny,
May I ask, did you just happen to have metal spiked balls hanging around? Or
what did you attach to the end of the chain or chains on the flail that you
made.
I believe that this two ball flail was the first like that that I have seen.
Seems like some have just one very large
Hi Milos,
Yep, a 20 kg sword sounds like allot of weapon to be wielding in a prolonged
battle. Especially since, like you said, it is usually wielded in one hand
with a shield in the other hand.
I do believe that a standard sledgehammer is 4 or 5 kg.
BFN
Jim
I bought some fish oil,
Hi Thomas,
Yeah, I love building random objects or the descriptions of them. You know
like in Triple J Shooter. This is at least as many combinations. Actually way
way more.
Not for this game, but for a Simpson's game, the voice actors for the Simpsons
are voice actors making millions a
Hi Dark,
One day I was putting in numbers for where to start the playing of and for how
long to play and the frequency to play the wave file and the sound that came
out sounded cool, and I was like, wow, I could use that for a pong ball sound.
I actually had wanted to make a game of pong,
Hi Johnny,
I love going to the local medieval faire because they let me pick up and look
at all of the medieval weapons. You know all of the swords, battle axes,
flails, maces etc. I even bought a flail this summer. The wooden handle is
about a foot and a half long and on one end are two
Hi Phil,
You know I now use my Book Sense XT machine with a pair of stereo microphones
to record sounds for games etc. You know like the naked dice and many of the
projectiles in Awesome Homer level 3. And the flail is a real weapon. If you
were to swing it with any force and hit a person
Hi Dark,
Sorry about the Hi Dark subject. Don't know how I did that.
I see what you mean, but Homer Simpson is almost not like a Human voice to me.
He is a cartoon voice. Kind of like if I had been more of a Flintstones fan
and used Fred Flintstones voice rather than Homer's.
I do see
Hi Charles,
I think that all of the different accents of people and voice actors across the
U. S. and the rest of the world might be part of my problem with human speech
in games. Some accents do really get on my nerves. Not so much talking with a
person on the phone, but over and over in a
Hi Nicole,
That's cool. I know that different people like different types of games. The
games that I have are;
Awesome Homer, Baseball, BattleShip, Black Jack, Bop It, Concentration,
coupling, Craps, Draw Poker, Football, Golf, Hangman, Homer on a Harley, Life,
Mach 1, Mach 1 tts, Master
I don't know, for some reason hearing the same human speech over and over in a
game bothers me. But hearing the same sapi5 voice over and over does not.
Now if I had sight and saw a human on the screen, I would expect to hear human
speech. But when I had sight, nothing on the screen looked
Hi Eleanor,
Thank you and all of you at 7-128 Software for the top 25 list for 2012. Sure
looks like allot of research and work goes into developing the top 25 list.
BFN
Jim
I like Visual Basic 6.0 because I can not C.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Bavisoft
Hi Dark,
You know I have never really cared for human speech in games. I really do
prefer the sapi5 speech. You know other than the little bits of human speech
like Homer saying Woo hoo, Doh etc. And I really do not care for the heavy
western accent. I do very much like shows
Hi Nicole,
What has happened to many blind game companies such as PCS games, BSC games,
L-works etc is that the programmer ended up getting a job doing business
programming for some main stream company, and thus doesn't have the time to do
the creating blind games thing. I am pretty darn
Hi Charles,
Yes, PCS Games, BSC games and L-works have let us know what is going on and at
least kept up with tech support and communicating with gamers. And of course
Phil has taken up game programming and great web design.
BFN
Jim
I can't wait until 12 20 20 12.
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Lexi,
Although my games are not multi player on line games, they are all together in
one package like you asked for. That is you install the winkit.zip file which
creates the kitchensinc folder and installs the game menu program, then all of
the rest of my games go into that folder and
-
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net
To: Phil Vlasak Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] get naked dice
Hi Phil,
Nope, I did not roll the Get Naked Dice on a real game board. I do not
have one. About 22 years ago Chuck and Diana read all
Hi Charles,
I have not checked out Ian's Master Mind game, but from the description it
sounds like he used the original colored pegs and I used numbers instead.
BFN
Jim
My favorite color is red, black and chrome.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon
Hi Phil,
Nope, I did not roll the Get Naked Dice on a real game board. I do not have
one. About 22 years ago Chuck and Diana read all of the squares on the game of
Life board to me so that I could make an accessible computer version. I then
gave the game to them for their kids to play.
Hi Phil,
If you would like to hear the Get Naked Dice rolled, on a marble table top, on
a wooden shelf, in an empty dresser drawer, on a wooden shelf leaning in the
empty dresser drawer, in an empty plastic clothes basket and in to a piece of
Styrofoam packaging, here are the six wave files.
Hi Dark,
Not to pile on, but, ATT Crystal reads my Email and she will often spell words
that are miss spelled, you know such as stil instead of still. And puzle sure gets
pronounced strangely. But that spelling words in the middle of reading is
disturbing.
But you are by no means the only
was Adult Games
Hi Phil,
Yeah, coupling was supposed to be a game sort of what the get naked dice are,
but I did make that game before I saw the get naked dice on stockroom.com.
I was wondering what surface to roll the dice on, but I just found that they
sound pretty good on my marble top
Hi Lisa,
Sorry, I should not have said women as the actual name of the board that I
created for my monopoly game is ladies. And there is the one named men.
HTH
BFN
Jim
I knew a lady once that had a community chest.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon
Hi Thomas,
Sorry, but my monopoly game does not allow you to change what the chance and
community chest cards say, only what they are called.
Looking at it now, I could have made more changes to the below ladies monopoly
board file. The one thing that I did do for both the ladies and men
Hi Thomas,
That is interesting. I did not know that there were actual adult computer
games. Thought that there should be, especially since they now have such
realistic graphics.
But yeah, just like an adult movie, one misses much of what is happening if one
can not see them.
I do have
Hi Lisa,
Yeah, I love roller coasters and amusement parks. And apparently so do lots of
other people given the popularity of I believe 4 versions of the Roller Coaster
Tycoon game. And well, the lines at the amusement parks. I sure would love to
have an accessible version of that game.
Hi Thomas,
Maybe for the stairs, you could take the step sound that you have and use Gold
Wave, Sound Forge or whatever, and raise or lower the pitch a bit. or add a
bit of grit sound, or stretch it, or give it some flanger, or Doppler, or see
what it sounds like backwards.
But yeah, we
coaster tycoon accessible sim for the blind i'd give
it a spin
- Original Message -
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net
To: dark Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Any chance of making huge cave work with windows?
Hi Dark,
That's
Hi Dark,
In the original golf game, the amount of power that you could type in was from
1 to 99 percent of power. But the thing is, there is a bit of randomization
built into the game. You know like You are 42 yards from the green and 18
yards off line. The off line is most of the
Hi Thomas,
Yeah, I also wish that there were more adult games. However you would not
believe how much flack I got for making games like Triple J Shooter, Spanker,
Coupling and even the adult prize list in Concentration and the adult word list
in Hangman. I even lost good friends over them.
Hi Bryan,
In Leather Goddesses of Phobos, you could type in, lewd, and the descriptions
would be of a more adult nature. Not quite to, say, a porno level, but still
fun.
TGIF and BFN
Jim
A red nose can be the result of sunshine or moonshine.
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Dallas,
Yeah, if we didn't as humans enjoy each other, humans would have died off a
very long time ago.
In defense of one very good friend that I lost, his wife is a Pasteur. So I
can understand how she and he might not appreciate the money shots in Triple J
shooter.
But otherwise,
Hi Dark,
Yes, thank you, I am glad that you appreciate the added skill level that I
added to the golf game by adding the pressing a key for the amount of power.
It does bug me a bit that even if one presses the key perfectly, there is still
that bit of randomization built into the game. I
Hi Raul,
Apologizing. I've got to go for now, but I was wondering, I swear that one
model of the Barbie doll had nipples. Just wondering if you know if that was
true or not.
Thanks.
BFN
Jim
Until I get the anti-gravity bra invented you could use helium balloons and
nipple rings.
Hi Dark,
That's cool. The only version of Oregon Trail that I have played was a GW
Basic version. Seems though that it is a very stripped down version. I was
told that it is nothing like the original Apple 2e version.
Yes, the original GW Basic version of the golf game had only 3 courses
Hi Thomas,
Yeah, maybe not as involved as your adult test speech program, but I sure had allot
of fun programming all of the random descriptions for my Triple J Shooter game.
grin
BFN
Jim
Sex is free, it feels good and is good for you!
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
Hi Dark,
Actually I have never played the Oregon Trail game. It was written for the
Apple 2e computer. Not sure what programming language that would have been.
But I never owned an Apple 2e computer. And I have no application that will
open the original source code.
BTW I did not write
Hi Ron,
Sorry, but I have no idea. I mean I have never written any on line games, and
actually have never played any myself. Sorry, just not my thing.
BFN
- Original Message -
Hey Jim.
Any chance on attempting to try the code somewhere online?
Here's to a up dated copy of Oregon
Hi Lisa,
Thank you very much.
Can't wait to hear what impossible task you come up with for me next week.
grin
BFN
- Original Message -
Jim i know you do a good job,. i don't expect the imposible from you, not
yet anyway wait till next week, grin.
Lisa Hayes
Hi Lisa,
The original Oregon Trail game was written for one of the first Mac computers.
Sorry, I forget the name of that thing. I never had one, but I guess allot of
people did. But I do not have any way of converting that code to code that I
can use. Actually can not even read the code.
Chou.
43 From, Ian McNamara.
40 From, Hayden Presley.
38 From, Dakotah Rickard.
38 From, Shard Workshop.
37 From, Johnny Tai.
34 From, william lomas.
31 From, Jim Kitchen.
31 From, Trouble.
30 From, Phil Vlasak.
26 From, QuentinC.
22 From, Ron Kolesar.
20 From, Darren Duff.
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285 people posted 18016 messages.
2480 From, Thomas Ward.
1475 From, dark.
993 From, shaun everiss.
748 From, Jeremy Kaldobsky.
656 From, Hayden Presley.
567 From, Charles Rivard.
540 From, Bryan Peterson.
444 From, Jim Kitchen.
442 From, Clement Chou.
408 From, Shane Lowe.
363 From
Hi Philip,
I will not be participating in the game creation contest only because I have
always programmed in Basic, but it sounds like a great idea. Maybe a
compromise and make the contest for 2 months.
BFN
Jim
I like Visual Basic 6.0 because I can not C.
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Charles,
Well, the very first accessible games that I made and shared on the FidoNet
mailing lists such as Blind Talk, Blink Talk and NFB Talk were my casino games.
You know black jack, the slot machine and 5 card draw poker. They were on the
Henter Joyce BBS. And the thing about them
Hi Thomas,
That would be very cool if I or some one could use the Flight Gear open source
code to make a flight sim as you suggested. I would even give it a try, except
that I bet that it is not written in Basic.
Sure would be great though.
BFN
Jim
If flying is so safe, why do they
Hi Thomas,
Yes, I am sure that you would be able to hear the sub when it is on top of the
water. I still have my doubts about being able to hear it when it is under
water.
BFN
Jim
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Thomas,
Wow, I love the sound of your RC Harley with the biker Barbie on it.
I am just wondering how you would hear where a RC submarine is.
BFN
Jim
Can I interest you in my lakefront property at Chickamaconico?
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon
, Jim Kitchen wrote:
Hi Mike,
Truthfully, no, I had not thought of making an ice road trucker version. Might
be fun though. Hey how about an alligator hunting game? That's a crazy
history channel show as well.
BFN
Jim
Tailgater--one who makes ends meet.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http
Hi Thomas,
That would be great if we had a real flight sim with descriptions like from the
co-pilot as you suggested. I imagine that would take a team of professional
programmers as well as a team just to do all of the descriptions. Sure would
be cool to have though.
BFN
Jim
Why do
Hi Phil,
Yep, I have slid off the road a few times due to icy road conditions. Not
positive if it was on the northern or middle route though. I probably could
look at the code and change the chance of the snow and blizzard thing thus
making the game more like ice road trucker or in the
Hi Thomas,
We also did the model rockets. Never had one with a camera though. But behind
what was Grandma Kitchen's back yard is a huge open area where the power lines
go through across route 306 from Lakeland community college, so we had the room
there for our rockets. And on Tyler
Hi Charles,
Even though I didn't make any of the new golf courses, I sure have enjoyed
creating and sharing all of the games over the years. Thanks for the thanks.
BFN
Jim
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio
Hi Thomas,
Besides the electronic ignition, you can still buy feet of fuse to cut to
length, stuff into the rocket engine and light. Either way though is fun. But
I have not done any model rocketry since losing my sight.
BFN
Jim
I remember when Saturns were rockets, not cars.
Hi Mike,
Truthfully, no, I had not thought of making an ice road trucker version. Might
be fun though. Hey how about an alligator hunting game? That's a crazy
history channel show as well.
BFN
Jim
Tailgater--one who makes ends meet.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
Hi Thomas,
We also had a rocket engine malfunction once. The rocket was a two part
rocket. One part was just to hold the engine and tumble back to the ground.
The second part was a glider airplane. It was pretty cool to watch the glider
gracefully glide in a circular manner back to the
Hi,
I have put a new file up on my site.
File name: wingcf11.exe File size: 65k bytes
8 new golf courses which are; Day in the country rating 67, expected
difficulties rating 65, hard and easy rating 65, long story short rating 70, no
holes barred rating 66, surprising holes rating 62,
Hi Thomas,
Yes, Puppy 1 is a game and not a flight simulation program. The only thing
that is real about it is that all of the planes and each bullet do have an x, y
and z coordinate that are up dated about 20 times per second.
If I could write a real flight simulation program I would want
Hi,
Just FYI, I often spell words wrong in my games. The most common would be reed
instead of read. You know so that it says;
Do you wish to reed the instructions?
instead of
Do you wish to red the instructions?
The English language is so screwy, it is amazing that anyone can learn it, and
Hi Trouble,
Yeah the only really good thing about dos text games was that the text got
spoken automatically by every single dos screen reader. Of course now people
like Jeremy are coding directly to the API of all of the windows screen
readers. I never figured out how to do that, so only
Hi Valiant8086,
Thanks for letting me know that.
BFN
- Original Message -
Hi.
I just checked and NVDA seems to work fine with HJ pad also, just FYI.
Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable.
Jim
Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.
Hi Thomas,
Yeah, you know allot of people just do not like change. Routine is
comfortable. And learning a new way of doing things may not be easy for some.
And then there is that often our access is behind. That is our screen reader
of choice may not support the newest version of an
Hi Hayden,
Oh, cool, I didn't know that NVDA could use the sapi5 voices. Thanks for letting me
know. Some day I will have to install and check out NVDA. But right now since I wrote
my own Email program it reads my Email unattended using the ATT Crystal voice and
then throws me into HJ Pad
Hi Thomas,
The dealer having set rules for when to hit or stay was why I was confused when
you said
The other difference is from what I've seen so far Alantic City
Blackjack just seems to have a better A.I. Its nothing specific I can
put my fingure on, but the A.I. tends to know when its a
Hi Thomas,
Hmmm, maybe that is a difference in rules then, as I have always known the
dealers rules to be that the dealer hits on 16 and below and stays on 17 and
above. Except for a soft 17 which the dealer can stay or hit.
BFN
Jim
Help!! I hit the power switch and it didn't die
Hi Thomas,
Yes, I'm sure that you are correct in that my Celeron 2.4 GHZ 512 meg ram and
my Pentium 2.0 GHZ 512 meg ram computers would not do well at all running
Windows 7. Heck might not even like Jaws 13 for that matter. But they run
plenty fast enough for me with what they are running.
Hi Thomas,
May I ask, other than no bet limit, what rules are different in Atlantic City
black jack than in say my black jack?
Thanks.
BFN
Jim
My favorite color is red, black and chrome.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
---
Gamers mailing
Hi,
BTW my computers are just about as old as Jaws 4.02. I have never up dated any
of the software so that it all runs the same as it did out of the box. You
know like if I up dated I E for instance, I bet that it would not work so well
with Jaws 4.02.
I am just very happy that both of
Hi Charles,
Ok, so maybe the Atlantic City black jack game is not speaking automatically
because I am running such an old version of Jaws. The game runs fine, I just
need to use the review cursor. But truthfully the only reason that I even
tried the game was because Michael sent it to me in
Hi Thomas,
Yes sir, Jaws 4.02. But hey if you are buying me version 13 I will run it
happily. Well as long as it still supports the VB6 IDE so that I can continue
to develop games such as my casino pack of games.
BFN
Jim
If Wile E. Coyote had enough money to buy all that ACME crap,
Hi Michael,
Thank you for sharing Richard L. De Steno's black jack game. The thing is, the
text on the screen does not get spoken automatically by Jaws. At least it
doesn't for me here.
BFN
Jim
Full house bar and grille Liquor in the front Poker in the rear
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Christina,
You are quite welcome. I'm glad that you also enjoy the Audyssey list babble
and thread reports.
BFN
Jim
The Bureau of Incomplete Statistics reports that one out of three
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
---
Gamers
Hi Alfredo_The_Music_maker,
No, the twice a week game chat robot is no longer there, but the once a month
list rules robot is.
BFN
Jim
Not breaking the rules, just testing the elasticity...
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
---
Gamers
weakland.
19 From, william lomas.
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Hi Dark,
Well, actually the hangman game starts a new log file each time that you start
the game. I do not believe that you would want a log file that grew
continuously.
BFN
Jim
Menu: A list of dishes which the restaurant has just run out of.
j...@kitchensinc.net
Hi Dark,
Cool, the only thing is, the hangman log file will not show how many words you
did or did not get until you exit the game. You know even though you can look
at the log file from within the game, your final score is not put there until
you are exiting the game.
BFN
Jim
I
Hi,
I have put Hangman version 2 up on my site.
File name: winhang2.exe File size 578k
Version 2 has a phonetic spell option and the game now creates a log file. And
the change voice feature is fixed.
The winhang2.exe file can be found on my free windows sapi5 text to speech
games page.
Hi Laurel,
Cool, I'm glad that you have gotten my games set up and running. And thanks
for saying that you love the games. I appreciate that very much.
BFN
Jim
Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440)
Hi Laurel,
I hope that with the help from the list, you were able to get some of my games
installed. Darn U A C not liking WinZip self extracting zip files. And sorry
that the WinKit install did not create a short cut icon on the desk top. So to
start the games, it is start key, p for
Hi Lenron,
Yes, I have been told that Windows 7 presents another little problem with
installing my games. The thing is, Windows 7 apparently has two program files
areas and my winkit install goes to one and the rest of the games go to the
other. Below is a message that I read from a lady
Hi Laurel,
Welcome to the list. I hope that you will check out some of my games at
http://www.kitchensinc.net
I have the following games.
Awesome Homer, Baseball, BattleShip, Black Jack, Bop It, Concentration,
coupling, Craps, Draw Poker, Football, Golf, Hangman, Homer on a Harley, Life,
Hi Laurel,
Welcome to the list. I hope that you will check out some of my games at
http://www.kitchensinc.net
I have the following games.
Awesome Homer, Baseball, BattleShip, Black Jack, Bop It, Concentration,
coupling, Craps, Draw Poker, Football, Golf, Hangman, Homer on a Harley, Life,
Hi Joseph,
Its good to see you here on the Audyssey list.
BFN
Jim
Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Hi Christian,
Cool! good to hear that you were able to complete level 7 of Awesome Homer.
Which level have you gone back and played the most now that you can choose
which level you wish to play?
BFN
Jim
C. E. O. Kitchen's Inc.
j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440)
Hi Christian,
If you run into cars too many times, or do not keep on the gas peddle, you will
run out of fuel.
The first two cars just randomly move back and forth. So you have to listen to
where they are at and move to where they are not at. The next car tries to
stay in front of you. So
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