Hello listers,
Before I begin, yes I know third level will cost us. Since SIE doesn't ge
t
down to the VSE we do not benefit from that and all CPU has to be emulate
d.
We have moved an old VM/ESA 2.2 with VSE 2.3 to a new z890 machine.
Obviously this level of VM can't run on zseries so we have
Avoid privileged instructions, such as IO and paging. Here VM's
Minidisk cache can help to avoid I/O. You'd cache at the highest
level, that is use VSE caching as much as possible, then VM/ESA's;
you'd turn off MDC in z/VM, it is of no use to have two MDC levels.
Have you looked at a performance
Hello Kris,
The guest runs with attached DASD so MDC is not applicable in this case.
It doesn't look like IO is the problem here. But obviously any command
processed in the guest will cause double the load in the host VM. So I do
agree to avoid as much as possible. I don't know if MDC in the
AFAIK, in the third level there is no SIE possible.
That makes for a great performance impediment.
Kind regards,
Willy
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] Im Auftrag
von Berry van Sleeuwen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. April 2009
Berry,
The guest runs with attached DASD so MDC is not applicable in this
case.
Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?
Anyway, MDC has the potential of
Geert,
Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?
Attached to the guest VM. I don't know if there would be any advantage in
attaching to third level, other
Only a subset of privileged instructions require intervention from VM
hence huge overhead for 3'th level VSE. MOVE kind instructions for
example would ran at native speed, no matter how deed the SIE
instruction is nested.
Driving IO is the most obvious area that require VM intervention.
Avoiding
Well, if the problem is caused by a CPU-intensive CICS-program, then I
would expect that you would have seen that problem on your old system as
well (when we put a really CPU-intensive CICS-program into production,
we get calls from frustrated users immediately). But you'll need a CICS
monitor to
Berry van Sleeuwen wrote:
But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load in
some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.
Then engage a performance monitor under VSE, or
I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:
1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and deleted
after the last user.
If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288
User2 has
They are not because each is defined separately. From User2 try LINK User1 700
701 RR and see what that gets you.
Just like all the users having 191, that doesn't mean they are shared with one
another.
Bob Bates
Enterprise Hosting Services
w. (469)892-6660
c. (214) 907-5071
This message
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 08:17 EDT, Kris Buelens
kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote:
Only a subset of privileged instructions require intervention from VM
hence huge overhead for 3'th level VSE. MOVE kind instructions for
example would ran at native speed, no matter how deed the SIE
instruction
John, Bob, thanks. Makes much more sense now.
Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf
Of Romanowski, John (OFT)
Hi, Booby.
Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] wrote:
I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:
1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and deleted
after the last user.
If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
User1 has MDISK 700
We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
files. Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of these
minidisks concurrently.
DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
Given that the S and Y disks as well as CMS take storage below 16M,
does anybody
Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted? Do you have a backup
product that might help to tell you that it is?
JR (Steven) Imler
CA
Senior Sustaining Engineer
Tel: +1-703-708-3479
steven.im...@ca.com
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
It is a CMS architecture limit. Do not make me go to IBMIN.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a
An FST entry costs 64 bytes. On top of that CMS builds hyperblocks to
speed up file searching, that is CMS records the highest fileid found
in each FST page. 15 files is roughly 2400 pages, or 9MB.
When an SFS directory is placed in a dataspace, the FST's are placed
in the dataspace too
On 4/29/09 10:28 AM, Bob Bates robert.ba...@wellsfargo.com wrote:
They are not because each is defined separately. From User2 try LINK User1 700
701 RR and see what that gets you.
Just like all the users having 191, that doesn't mean they are shared with one
another.
Although you should
If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, the maximum is
262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 for every page 16M that is
otherwise occupied. This is obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2
disks. Is it possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by
I recognized this after trying it to set it up. The second guest that was using
the link was in r/o mode and all of a sudden the implications became clear.
But thanks for pointing it out.
Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
We have a old, small SAN for testing. Previously all of our disk storage has
been on dasd (3390-9). We have figured out how to access the SAN, build a file
system on it and mount the filesystem on one of our test servers.
Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this SAN. Is there a way to
This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk. The
application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online. Given
64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
That would be exactly a full working month.
I am trying to convince the application
How about using something like VMARC to zip files 1 week old into weekly
archives on the same minidisk that are easily expanded when needed?
On 4/29/09 12:44 PM, James Stracka (DHL US) james.stra...@dhl.com wrote:
This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk. The
Is there any documented APPC interface to SFS for non-CMS operating
systems?
--. .- .-. -.--
Gary Dennis
It looks like we were a bit fooled by the customer. After a lot of
discussion it looks like it is not only CPU constrained. And also, at
least in part, they already had problems in the old machine (and they
forgot to mention that little detail). It used to be just acceptable but
with the current
That idea might just fly. Thank you.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Neale Ferguson
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:49 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 12:51 EDT, Gary M. Dennis
gary.den...@mantissa.com wrote:
Is there any documented APPC interface to SFS for non-CMS operating
systems?
No. Non-CMS access to SFS is via NFS.
Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott
Nope, afraid notbut it would be way cool if Linux, as a guest of
z/VM, could read/write SFS directories and files.
Gary M. Dennis wrote:
Is there any documented APPC interface to SFS for non-CMS operating
systems?
--. .- .-. -.--
Gary Dennis
--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 01:06 EDT, Dave Jones
d...@vsoft-software.com wrote:
Nope, afraid notbut it would be way cool if Linux, as a guest of
z/VM, could read/write SFS directories and files.
It can. It just needs to use NFS to do it.
Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote:
An unassisted SIE instruction is trapped by the underlying z/VM system and
trimmed to reflect what the underlying z/VM system knows about the guest
who issued the SIE. Then that underlying z/VM issues a SIE. With
Would the application be amenable to writing each day's files to a separate
subdirectory and only accessing the ones needed at any given time? There could
be 31 subdirectories, one for each possible day of the month. Before writing
the file for any given day, that subdirectory could be cleared
I had proposed that but SFS is not used here so that is a hard sell.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be
Well, yes, Alan, you're correct. I meant be able to read/write SFS files
directly from Linux, without the overhead and pain involved in getting
it set up.
Alan Altmark wrote:
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 01:06 EDT, Dave Jones
d...@vsoft-software.com wrote:
Nope, afraid notbut it would be
On: Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:44:03AM -0700,James Stracka (DHL US) Wrote:
} This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk. The
} application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online. Given
} 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
} That
Would it be possible to set up a separate minidisk for each day of the
month then? Possibly have your directory manager automatically shuffle
addresses at midnight so they always link to, say 191?
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
You could do the same thing with minidisks - just define 31 of them and
choose which on to link to based on the day.
Brian Nielsen
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:50:27 -0700, James Stracka (DHL US)
james.stra...@dhl.com wrote:
I had proposed that but SFS is not used here so that is a hard sell.
John P. Baker
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?
We
Can you migrate the application to SFS? You could have a 2nd-level
directory for each month, and a 3rd-level directory for each day of the
month.
John P. Baker
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
And what are the inhibitors that prevent you from running VSE 2.3 directly
under z/VM 5.4?
I have VSE 2.3.2 running on z/VM 5.2 on a z/890. I've been toying with the
idea of upgrading VM this summer. Are there other products that are running
under VM/ESA 2.2 that need to be on the same VM
Another tool you might want to take a look at is FCOPY. FCOPY is simila
r
to VMARC and both of them allow you to add files to an existing archive.
The nice thing about FCOPY is it has filelist type of interface so you
can
see the files in a packlib and even xedit them directly from it.
Hello Barry,
I have been watching this thread.
I agree with Tom. Why not have VSE 2.3 run under z/VM 5.4 and have
VM/ESA 2.2 run under z/VM 5.4 if need be?
Ed Martin
Aultman Health Foundation
330-363-5050
ext 35050
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
We are working on a DR process. I notice that the defaults for a Hidro backup
include the PACK option which tells Hidro to pack, or condense in some fashion,
its output. The output is being written to 3590E drives. It appears that there
are three choices we can make for condensing the data:
I'll second the FCOPY idea. I use it everyday to 'archive' my CMS users
files, and the FILELIST type of interface makes it very easy for them to
recover lost data.
BTW for this problem too bad VSAM isn't supported in VM anymore..
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
One thing though: There is a non-VM version of VMARC that can extract the files
on other platforms (Leland rocks!). I know of no utility that can extract FCOPY
archives on other platforms.
On 4/29/09 3:00 PM, Huegel, Thomas thue...@kable.com wrote:
I'll second the FCOPY idea. I use it
Bobby, all you have to do is dedicate the FCP channels that go to the
SAN to the Linux guests you want to be able to use them. Let's say you
have an FCP channel defined in your IOCP like so:
CHPID PATH=(CSS(0),20),SHARED,*
There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
exactly what you want.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Untested:
PIPE |SPECS PrintOnly EOF n: w3 . set #0+=n EOF Print #0 1|
Issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature
2009/4/29 Huegel, Thomas thue...@kable.com:
There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
exactly what you want.
And a more general solution for any manipulations needed in a stage is to
write a REXX stage that does exactly what you want.
Brian Nielsen
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:19:41 -0500, Huegel, Thomas thue...@kable.com
wrote:
There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
Hi, James.
There's no explicit SUM stage because that functionality is built into
the SPECS stageyou might try something like this (untested):
specs
a: word 3 ./* grab third word in record */
set #0+=a /* add it to counter 0 */
eof/* at EOF */
/Total:/ 1
giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource. It is much
better to take the extra disk resource that you allocate but never
want to use, and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging
subsystem. Then define two vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an
alert when the 2nd
On 4/29/2009 at 12:39 PM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
baue...@mail.nih.gov
wrote:
-snip-
Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this SAN. Is there a way to
define SCSI devices in user direct so they can be available to the guest? I
see I can use 9336 emulation but that seems like a
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 12:42 EDT, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
baue...@mail.nih.gov wrote:
We have a old, small SAN for testing. Previously all of our disk storage
has
been on dasd (3390-9). We have figured out how to access the SAN, build
a file
system on it and mount the filesystem on
Thanks to all who responded. Kris's solution worked best for my
problem.
PIPE JIMS TESTFILE A ,
| SPECS PRINTONLY EOF N: W3 . SET #0+=N EOF PRINT #0 1 ,
| STRIP,
| VAR TOTAL
Thomas' TABULATE solution also worked:
PIPE JIMS TESTFILE A ,
| SPECS WORD 3 ,
| TABULATE
Rob,
Thanks. That works great when the disk is too full for the application to
issue the EXEC to archive the files. I have to see if we can work that into
the code.
The major concern I had is to prevent the application from getting the
following messages when it writes that file that breaks
Ed (and Tom),
Well, to be honest, about a year ago I already suggested to try to
migrate into an zVM 5.x. And just before we moved the VM 2.2 I did
repeat that suggestion. But according to some it would be too much of a
risk. I guess it's a political risk, not a technical risk. And besides
that,
I do have a question. Were could I find documentation on those SPECS
statements? So far I haven't found documentation on this. The CMS help
doesn't provide me with this level of SPECS knowledge.
Regards, Berry.
Dave Jones schreef:
Hi, James.
There's no explicit SUM stage because that
The biggest benefit of z/VM is to virtualize resources as much as
possible. Dedicating a resource to a specific guest is a big waste and
benefits one to the detriment of all the rest. It would be much better
to allocate all virtual disk swap for the Linux guests, then allocate
the disk that
Scott you hit this one on the head!
Penguins multiply rapidly, real memory tends to stay constant ($$$). Sure VM is
Great at paging but, like you say, impacting all the Penguins? YMMV. Alerts are
a must either way. When memory is at a premium, one v-disk and the rest real
disk is the way to
Jim, take a look at Chapter 14, SPECS Tutorial in the Author's Edition
of the CMS Pipelines publication. An online PDF copy is available here:
http://vm.marist.edu/~pipeline/pipeline.pdf
SPECS is one of the more useful,stages, imho.
Have a good one.
James Stracka (DHL US) wrote:
Thanks to all
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