How things have changed. 15 years ago, an organization 'giving away
source code' would have their directors committed to a psychiatric
institution. I'm not complaining.. just pointing out that right or
wrong our expectations of an organization are based on status quo (the
concept, not that
2009/6/30 ad adam.denn...@gmail.com
+1
This rant seemed odd, especially bringing up flex so much. Does
anybody honestly believe google would consider using flex for the wave
ui?! Flash support is still bad in unix.
i'm glad you brought that up, indeed it isn't up to par with the windows
And what is wrong with the band?
On Jul 1, 7:00 pm, Christian Catchpole christ...@catchpole.net
wrote:
How things have changed. 15 years ago, an organization 'giving away
source code' would have their directors committed to a psychiatric
institution. I'm not complaining.. just pointing out
You are talking about how to fix Java, not what a new language should do
;-) But I agree: creating a new API for collections seems a worthwhile
effort in the Java world. Maybe something with (fake) closures, too.
I too should have been more clear. If there was a new language with
JSR308-like
Will it even be possible to replace java
or are we at the point where replacing java would be just too much work and
too costly?
I think a language could back into replacing Java, just the way
Peter described: By compelling library writers to switch first.
With kind regards
Ben
Status Quo the band contribute very little to open source. Francis
Rossi did a handful of Eclipse patches, that's it.
2009/7/1 Christian Catchpole christ...@catchpole.net:
nothing... if you base your exceptions on the band, they will be
pretty high.
On Jul 1, 7:13 pm, Michael Neale
B Smith-Mannschott wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:20, Ben Schulzya...@gmx.net wrote:
The problem with Java's null is the instance of bottom in the static
type system, but outside the dynamic type system. Classic puzzler:
public boolean puzzle(String par) {
return (par instanceof
I'm surprised I haven't heard Dick complain about Google Earth, Picasa
etc. not being written to run on the JVM. It's particular interesting
that for these popular applications, Google actually prefers to pour
money into Wine rather than implement in Java. And on the mobile, Java
was never as
Casper Bang wrote:
And on the mobile, Java
was never as popular (forget Gosling/Schwartz gazillion evangelism) as
now with Android.
Can you define popular? Possibly in terms of number of installations?
Thanks. :-)
--
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. -
Do they twitter? perhaps if we know that Francis is about to eat a
caesar salad, then all we be forgiven.
On Jul 1, 8:44 pm, Jim Blackler jimblack...@gmail.com wrote:
Status Quo the band contribute very little to open source. Francis
Rossi did a handful of Eclipse patches, that's it.
Ben Schulz wrote:
[...]
Section 4.1 of the JLS disagrees with you, the null type is there, you
just can't name it as part of a Java sentence. And it's a pity that
it's so, but I understand the reasoning behind it (
http://blogs.sun.com/abuckley/entry/naming_the_null_type ).
As a
On 1 Jul., 14:30, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
Can you define popular? Possibly in terms of number of installations?
Thanks. :-)
I can try, although I won't jump on the number bandwagon as I think
that's utterly pointless. Most people with J2ME capable phones have
Fabrizio, I don't feel like hijacking this thread, posted follow-up
here instead:
http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse/browse_thread/thread/9235ad4faf559ff5
/Casper
On 1 Jul., 14:30, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
Casper Bang wrote:
And on the mobile, Java
was
Casper Bang wrote:
On 1 Jul., 14:30, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
Can you define popular? Possibly in terms of number of installations?
Thanks. :-)
I can try, although I won't jump on the number bandwagon as I think
that's utterly pointless. Most people
Casper Bang wrote:
- Android is a superset of J2ME and supports generics etc. making J2ME
looking more stale than ever.
J2ME *is* stale. It's stuck with the Java language as it was prior to
Java-5 -- and neither Sun nor any J2ME partner (at least none I asked at
JavaOne) has any plans to
After listening to the google doesn't get java episode, i was left
with the impression that app engine, like gwt, only works with Java
source and not bytecode. (this wasn't explicitly stated, but I felt it
was implied, especially when it was mentioned that android was 'not as
bad' because at
Hi Peter
I suspect that the point may not have been clear enough on the podcast
- it got quickly bogged down in advocacy (which was kind of the point
- I guess I was in the mood to stir things up). Here are the problems
I see right now with each of the Google Java technologies, having
been
Yes then you are right, if you only wish to focus on something
quantifiable as potential installation numbers in the wild, then the
discussion is pointless and starts to look like you're just bull-
baiting me into coming up with a number. However I would still love to
know what then you think of
This is incorrect. There are over a billion installations of Java on
cellphones. Google has made J2ME based clients before Android and
continues to do so. If you want to hit more than 5% of the market you
have to use Java.
On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Casper Bang wrote:
I'm surprised I
On 1 Jul., 17:14, Joshua Marinacci jos...@gmail.com wrote:
This is incorrect. There are over a billion installations of Java on
cellphones. Google has made J2ME based clients before Android and
continues to do so. If you want to hit more than 5% of the market you
have to use Java.
Whether
Pointing out that Google also targets J2SE doesn't prove much, given
that they are also more than willing to make Obj-C clients for the
iPhone and other non-J2ME devices. Google is just like that, they go
after the marked and tries to win the hart of users regardless of
underlying
I give up, seems like everyone equates popularity with potential
marked share regardless of how many actually USES their Symbian phone
for anything but calls and messages (I have yet to meet one). I think
it's naïve to care only for such a marketing metric, but if that's
your definition of
You were talking about why developers, and Google in particular, might
or might not target JavaME. I'm telling you why. Google is practical
and targets large markets, so they build JavaME clients. A much
better question is why does Google target the iPhone which has such a
small
Chris,
I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have been said already,
but this is really reminiscent of what happened to smalltalk. The same
kind of religious wars without the wisdom of practical application or
cohesive vision.
Hopefully, we can move beyond it.
LES
On Jun 27, 4:14 pm,
On 1 Jul., 16:42, Dick Wall dickw...@gmail.com wrote:
Android - I also used to be a Developer Advocate for Android. I think
Android makes the most sense of the three platforms, and I would love
to see Google and Sun work towards making Android a real Java profile
(taking over from CDC
This issue has come up dozens of times.
First, it's clearly absurd to fill source code with boilerplate getter/
setter code. Even if IDEs can auto-generate, it still has to be
manually read/maintained.
What I don't understand is why language changes are needed to avoid
that.
Libraries and
I think the average user profile for a Symbian phone user is very different
from that of an average iPhone (and now Android) user. Most people using
J2ME-capable mobile devices aren't nearly as likely to want to spend money on
3rd party apps as their iPhone and Android counterparts. So it's
Eric,
You took some heat for posting this in the first place, so I think its
only fair that you be recognized for doing the right thing.
Thanks.
On Jun 30, 9:19 am, Eric enewco...@gmail.com wrote:
I took this down. Apologies for the over- reaction.
Eric
On Jun 26, 5:24 pm,
From what I've heared from sources in the industry whom I unfortunately
cannot name, developing for J2ME is less pleasant than stabbing yourself in
the face with a sharp and rusty object repeatedly.
So basically: It doesn't matter how many installations there are, very few
people like to stab
Could you explain this?
Concurrency is one of the more simple, academic issues on the larger
business projects that I've been involved with.
The biggest problems that I've seen in Java development have been very
non-academic issues related to managing large projects with lots of
different code
You don't hear much about it, but I think its worth consideration.
There is such a thing as the uniform access principle. Which
basically says that there is benefit accessing things in your object
the same way. i.e. always get to something via. a function.
It doesn't seem like a big deal, but
Viktor Klang wrote:
From what I've heared from sources in the industry whom I
unfortunately cannot name, developing for J2ME is less pleasant than
stabbing yourself in the face with a sharp and rusty object repeatedly.
So basically: It doesn't matter how many installations there are, very
Concurrency is one of the more simple, academic issues
What are you doing? Do you wanna.. tempt the wrath of the whatever
from high atop the thing? :D
Concurrency is many things, simple ain't one of them. That's the very
reason academia is *still* (60 years(?) later) trying to solve it.
I don't mean to imply that they're bad. I do think though, that it
can just be a bit heavyweight. Also (as better stated in the blog I
linked to) I also think that its hard to balance competing group's
needs in an object model.
HashCode equals aren't bad either these days because I can
On second thought, I was wrong: parallelism is a big obstacle in the
same vein as C++ memory management.
First, almost any GUI application will completely lock up during a
networking related stall or hiccup, when perfect use of parallelism
could handle this more gracefully. And this isn't just
The point, as Joshua said, is that TODAY
Android is only a very small fraction of the market. Since it's pushed
by Google, it can do very well, but - again - I'm not talking of trends
and predictions; it's an argument that I'm not interested of. I posted
in this discussion only to argue
It seems the HTC Magic has been pulled by Vodafone NZ from sale and their
website last night with (currently) no known reasons. There's a suspected
conflict over Google not appreciating their logo body painted on naked women
at the launch party, but as yet no real details.
I hope its not a
I actually have a few things installed on my E65, although the only J2ME
app I currently use is 5ud0ku :-)
And to support your point:
- I would not consider myself an average user
- my next phone is certainly not going to be Nokia or Symbian-based
I have used a few things on the phone over the
I think everything I would want to say regarding the concurrency part
has been said already (and probably with less words than my usual waffle).
I agree that modularity is a major issue, and I still have a suspicion
that it might need to go down to the language level to be solved
properly.
MassH wrote:
Libraries and frameworks like JPA/Facelets/Spring/etc should use
explicit getter/setter methods if they exist and otherwise fallback on
raw exposed instance variables.
As well as the other comments, one thing that API designers must be
careful about is future proofing the
On Jul 1, 11:01 am, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Also, one would think Google is capable (or had the money to hire the
right people) of doing a gorgeous UI like Rosie/Sense. Clearly this
kind of eye-candy sells.
Hello, Roman Guy? Are you listening? Your skills are in question...
I'm considering a new job which will primarily involve c# and mono,
neither of which I have any experience at all with. From what I've
gathered, most programmers seem to like c#, and it seems to be an easy
transition from java. I've heard some legal concerns about mono, but
it sure seems to be
Bill,
I was very simply and only saying this because some people had identified
themselves as such on this list. This seems like another case of the
problem - to object to my using a label someone used for themselves is very
strange.
If you look at this from a purely technical angle there is no
Hello people,
I'm maintaining a modest JavaFX code sample site - made with Google sites -
but whatever I (adding url, sitemap,...) try I can't have it indexed by
Google search.
Does anybody know what I have to do to have Google index it ? It doesn't
make much sense in maintaining a code sample
Casper Bang wrote:
See that's because you equate popularity with runtime distribution
count, which is a red herring.
Casper, please don't assert I'm saying things that I'm not saying :-)
Let's talk about USE, but explain how it's possible that people feel
most popular a thing that most
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