At 06:28 AM 12/11/2003 -0800, C Etter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think you are wrong when you say that For the most part, not only they
[classical guitarists] cannot read tablature.
My experience as a classical guitarist is that nearly all of the other
classical guitarist whom I have ever
Roman,
A few thoughts...
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
Well, well, well.. This means that the life on the lute list will
finally
At 22:19 09-12-2003 -0800, Howard Posner wrote:
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the fact remains that within 19 years after the appearance of
the Perrine book, Campion stated that the lute was done for. That is a
fairly powerful statement
The translated excerpt in your article says
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have no way of knowing what would have happened if 18th century
lutenists had paid heed to Perinne and Campion. But we do know that today,
this same failed system of the 18th century
The press of deadlines compels me to retire from this discussion.
Arne Keller at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am uncertain as to the significance of this year.
It was the year of the Campion remark that Matanya cited.
Howard Posner
The press of deadlines compels me to retire from this discussion.
Besides, I have a sneaking hunch that nobody besides the two of us is
reading. So I'll just make a few general remarks.
I am reading it and I am sure others are interested too.
Howar Posner scripsit:
I couldn't sleep at night if I took your money on a sucker bet like that.
Were I a gambling man (I'm not), I might take bets on whether there are more
professional lutenists in London now than there were in the entire world
forty years ago.
Probably true, if your
You'll note that you and I are focusing on two different things: you on the
players of solo music, and I on their place in the larger musical world.
And we must note that in chamber music we greatly outdone guitarists, who
are often accused of being unable to play with other musicians (notably
Well said Tim,
But you don't need police statistics to note the full moon phenomenon, just
ask any bartender or lycanthrope.
Best, Jon
At 22:02 08-12-2003 -0500, Matanya Ophee wrote:
At 01:35 PM 12/8/2003 -0800, Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have to remember that lute players, then as now, could read staff
notation, and played continuo from the first days of continuo, and often
played obbligato parts, like those by
You'll note that you and I are focusing on two different things: you on the
players of solo music, and I on their place in the larger musical world.
Perhaps the difference is in seeing the lute world as essentially a subset
of the guitar world or as a subset of the early music world.
The
At 12:32 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
May be you are right. May be I should have been more specific and say that
these comments were an indication of a general feelings
[sic] of malaise regarding tablature in France at
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, with the addition of the Milleran quote furnished by Fred, we now have
three commentaries by French musicians about the dangers of tablature to
the general musicianship of the player.
It could be said, and I would not be able to argue against
At 04:25 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Accepting such a view would require us to
discard about 90% of what we have come to regard as the basic tenets of HIP
performance.
No, because a consensus, or a majority, or an institution, or a societal
norm, or accepted
here is one picture you may not have seen before:
http://www.orphee.com/lute/lute-player.jpg
I cna just imagine the sort of conclusions that can be made of it.
I love it! Left handed no less. The picture is not reversed because
the music is the right way. I can just imagine the artist telling
In a message dated 12/9/03 11:26:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I love it! Left handed no less. The picture is not reversed because
the music is the right way. I can just imagine the artist telling the
model how to place his fingers. It may take me a while to
At 01:24 PM 12/10/2003 +0900, Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
here is one picture you may not have seen before:
http://www.orphee.com/lute/lute-player.jpg
I cna just imagine the sort of conclusions that can be made of it.
I love it! Left handed no less. The picture is not reversed
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The real value of this painting is of course the music, if anyone can
identify it. Now let's assume, for the sake of argument, that this is the
only drawing in existence showing a lute player playing. It would be a
smashing proof that lute player
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the fact remains that within 19 years after the appearance of
the Perrine book, Campion stated that the lute was done for. That is a
fairly powerful statement
The translated excerpt in your article says the lute has declined (or is in
decline, or is
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The lute has never been like any of the other instrument. It was always on
the outside looking in, and as the Sieur Perrine noted in 1697, it will
always continue to be there, as long as lutenists insist on a notational
system that is not shared by
In a message dated 12/6/2003 5:55:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As someone who has listened to and enjoyed lute music for over 20 years
(and been playing for 4
months) it continues to surprise me how many people have never heard of
the instrument or know its
sound
, December 08, 2003 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
Matanya Ophee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The lute has never been like any of the other instrument. It was always
on
the outside looking in, and as the Sieur Perrine noted in 1697, it will
always continue to be there, as long
At 01:35 PM 12/8/2003 -0800, Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have to remember that lute players, then as now, could read staff
notation, and played continuo from the first days of continuo, and often
played obbligato parts, like those by Bach, Handel and Vivaldi, from staff
notation.
MO wrote:
You have to acquaint them with the music first. If they catch
the bug, they
would eventually graduate to the lute itself and learn to
read tablature.
Happened to most people here already this way, and it will
happen again. It
is not going to happen by posting facsimiles of
Vance Wood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Trouble is-a lot of them drop out or go underground because the group
that should be supporting them and encouraging them is by far and away as
friendly as a pack of junk yard dogs. As a whole I have never been exposed
to a group, boasting interest
the quality and the value of the information given.
Mike Wilson
- Original Message -
From: Vance Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
Trouble is-a lot of them drop out or go
At 8:27 PM -0800 12/6/03, Vance Wood wrote:
As a whole I have never been exposed
to a group, boasting interest passionately in a particular endeavor, that is
more driven by ego, pride, condescension, duplicity and judgementalism.
Period attitudes for a period instrument? It sounds like 16th
Wood.
- Original Message -
From: Ed Margerum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
At 8:27 PM -0800 12/6/03, Vance Wood wrote:
As a whole I have never been exposed
to a group, boasting interest
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in
the
ongoing
battle between the
greedy billionaire lute publishers
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Size of the
lute world
As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in
the
ongoing
battle between the
greedy billionaire lute publishers and the brave Trotskyist
That's my point, the Lute community is too small as it is, why should we, by
our behavior, keep it small or make it smaller? It seems to me that if
there were more people interested in playing the Lute that there would be
more business (bad word to some and I apologize) for Luthiers,
After posting my response last night to Vance Wood's junk yard dogs/band of
brigands message, I checked the archive this morning and realized that he
and I had pretty much the same exchange exactly one year ago (does something
about Pearl Harbor Day trigger it, I wonder?) He told me then that my
At 02:45 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Look,--- if some things like this do not get commercialized to some degree
no one would be able to get strings because no one would make them for
free,
and music would only be available to those near enough to a library
Well, well, well.. This means that the life on the lute list
will
finally attain the liveliness it deserves, it will be a true
microcosm.
Boulez bashing is one of my favorite things to do. We also have a
Morton
Feldman acolyte on the list, but he hasn't been heard from in
months.
RT
Za mir y druzhbu. :-)
Stewart McCoy.
RT (who is diligently working to fill 13-lute with
Shostakovich's
spirit)
Vodka? :-)
Stewart McCoy.
Unlike Boulez and Feldman he was a man of sobiety.
I, on the other hand, am about to pour myself a shot of 16 year
old
Lagavullin.
RT
PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in
the
ongoing
battle between the
greedy billionaire lute publishers and the brave Trotskyist
proletariat
struggling
3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
At 02:45 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Look,--- if some things like this do not get commercialized to some
degree
no one would be able to get strings because no one would make them for
free,
and music would only
: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in the
ongoing
battle between the
greedy billionaire
Hi!
I don't know about the amount of lute players or enthusiasts. Nice to
hear that you are willing to support the lute scene by buying editions
and CDs - please visit as much concerts as possible, too!
Actually that's what I would like people to do: attending concerts and
supporting artist
As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in the ongoing
battle between the
greedy billionaire lute publishers and the brave Trotskyist proletariat
struggling to free the
world's tablature I think I noticed an estimate of about 4000 lute players
worldwide. Is this a
Trouble is-a lot of them drop out or go underground because the group
that should be supporting them and encouraging them is by far and away as
friendly as a pack of junk yard dogs. As a whole I have never been exposed
to a group, boasting interest passionately in a particular endeavor,
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