As for "more room to organise", in my experience people get more active
during periods of 'further right' government. Governments of the 'centre
left', themselves further right than the right was 30 years ago, tend to
result in demobilisation. Certainly in NZ anyway.
Comradely,
John
On Sun, 6 Oct
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:05 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> a) Is there a mass or even a small mass anticapitalist party which is
> drawing workers away from these parties?
>
> b) Does the other major party to their right represent a real threat to
> the historic democratic rights and social gains
Abolishing the electoral college is a great idea! So are a lot of other changes
to the constitution. Two Senators per state is extremely undemocratic, and it
is the basis for the undemocratic EC. Oh, and the Supreme Court should be
abolished, too.
The best traditions of Marxism are democratic a
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:05 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> here are no Communist parties originating from the Third International
> which administer neoliberal capitalist states
Communist party that is a communist party, true. But Communist Party that
simply keeps the name, false: the Communist P
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 04:25 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure there are differences between us. I was thinking of the
> Second and Third International parties and their trade union wings that
> funded them, historically, rather than contemporary. Today, these parties
> have become bure
> On Oct 4, 2024, at 8:35 AM, Marv Gandall via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> Mark, I would be interested to know from you and others despairing of the
> lack of " independent political action by the working class" in the US, where
> you see it at work in the other advanced capitalist countries. W
No, one doesn't need a constitutional convention, one needs it to pass the
house and senate but super majority, signed by the President (I think) and then
3/4 of the states have to approve it. Amending the constitution is spelled out
clearly in the constitution itself.
David
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 09:42 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> The US isn't like "every advanced capitalist democracy" in that it has
> practically always had only two parties, both competing to represent
> capitalists, and practically no independent political action by the
> working class... the US is
The Electoral College has no redeeming value. Once upon a time, together
with the 3/5 clause, it guaranteed the slaveocracy yet another way of
stifling any moves to restrict their "peculiar institution." It was
retained as it gave disproportionate clout to the new Republican
railroad-dominated sta
New Zealand had a 1st past rhe post electoral system until the 1990s. We
had 2 and a bit parties in parliament (one die hard Social Credit MP with a
loyal local following). On at least a few occasions nthe party with the
most votes came second. It was seen as wrong by most people (especially
those
Marv's arguments stand as their own critique. "It's a good issue for
mobilizing a mass movement..." at the same time as it wouldn't undermine class
rule, and the US can "fall in line"---
Meanwhile 36 states in the US have enacted some form of voter suppression laws;
the USSC scraps the core
> On Oct 3, 2024, at 6:56 PM, Marv Gandall via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> Every advanced capitalist democracy has first past the post electoral systems
> which reward the party amassing the majority of votes cast or proportional
> representation schemes which are based on the same principle. Th
Gandall's "evident popular demand for an end to the electoral college" ... is
not so evident. During election season, the topic will of course get more
attention from the media and interested politicos. But for most of the next
four years, not so much.
If you really think it matters to repair t
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 03:55 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
But as long as we are talking about only two parties, it's not clear to me that
any US electoral reform won't fall victim to their undemocratic machinations.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 01:59 PM, Mark Lause wrote:
It is one of the eighteenth century
> On Oct 3, 2024, at 9:21 AM, David Walters via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> There IS however a very strong movement called National Popular Vote
> Interstate Compact.
A problem with that movement is that it doesn't alter the power structure. So
the powers that subvert elections will have the o
This has always been a democratic issue (small "d") and socialists were
making an issue of it from their first step into national campaigns.
The Democratic party has had ample opportunities to get rid of it since its
founding in the 1820s. The last time this came up seriously was in the
1970s wit
You can not totally eliminate the electoral college. That requires a
constitutional convention, very difficult to do that. You can have the
electoral college members be figure heads . The popular vote determines the
elections and reflects the electoral percentage. This would be achieved by
individ
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 10:45 AM, Charlie wrote:
>
> Abortion rights directly matter to a great part of the population. Women's
> right to vote was a step along the way to social and economic equality,
> too. The "powerful democratic demand" that Gandall sees in abolition of
> the electoral colleg
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 11:53 AM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> This would seem to be a powerful democratic demand capable of mobilizing
> the Democratic base and even many Republicans, a near-majority of whom
> also favour doing away with the present constitutional arrangement. Have
> the Greens or any
I agree Charlie that we do NOT want a Constitutional Convention (Constituent
Assembly in more Marxist parlance). But the last big fight over the
Constitution was the battle of the Equal Rights Amendment which failed but
there was no hint of a Constitutional Convention being invoked at all. That
A worthy cause, indeed. But there is a serious question of how such a compact
would be treated by the judiciary. I am not confident the U.S. Supreme Court
would uphold it in the face of challenge.
When and if the compact is ever adapted by a sufficient number of states AND
someone "wins" by vi
Interestingly, the "best thing" that could happen to push this over the top is
if Trump wins the popular vote but fails in the EC vote! Most American voters
support eliminating the EC altogether and that includes in many red states as
well.
David
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You r
Be careful about amending the constitution to abolish the electoral college.
How will you amend? If adoption of an amendment state by state, David has told
us about the course already preferred.
But agitation to abolish the electoral college could easily be steered into a
call for a constitutio
Thanks, David. Very interesting. I note that Michigan, Wisconsin,
Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, and Nevada - all swing states with many
working class Democratic party supporters - have yet to endorse the compact.
Seems to me it's a democratic demand that those urging abstention in the
There is no movement to repeal and change those section of the Constitution
that establishes the Electoral College as the means of choosing the President.
There IS however a very strong movement called National Popular Vote Interstate
Compact. As part of the Constitution amended a few times, is
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