On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Tony Antoniou wrote:
[...]
Furthermore, take your average Joe and see what they find easier to
record with ... MP3 or MD. In most cases, you'll find that they still
can't grasp the concept of burning a CD, particularly if they want to
play it in an ordinary audio CD
: MD: MD inferior to MP3: it's not computer-literate
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Tony Antoniou wrote:
B snip
On my PowerBook I can make a playlist and press burn CD in iTunes
and it'll give me a cd to put in the car a few minutes later...
Doesn't get much
You really need to use the same DAC and line amplifier to compare
these two sources. Is it possible to try this experiment again with
the CD signal being routed through the MD recorder while the MD unit
is in REC-PAUSE (i.e. monitor) mode? Ideally you'd take a digital
signal from the CD. This
I am not
impressed. Xitel today offers no advantage over an analog connection
No D/A and A/D I would've thought..
This is a false pseudo-advantage. My analog-connected tests between my
portable and home deck proved that lossy compression is vastly more important
than A/D and D/A
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your solution is irrelevant for the many people without a keyboard
input for their deck. My MD home deck is typical in that it has no
keyboard input. All MP3 computers inherently have keyboard input
*and* full CDDB utilization, which I mentioned but you
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll take that challenge any day ;) I think you need to specify what you
mean by critical headphone listening -- what headphones? What amps? What
playback sources?
A laptop PC with good sound capability, $100 headphones, using a .wav
vs. mp3 of the wav,
this would have a lot more to do with the software playing the mp3 than the atrac
compression its self.
--
I have been surprised how good such MP3-then-ATRAC sounds on MiniDisc -- this
says alot about how good ATRAC is, that it can re-compress good 224 Kbps MP3s
and still sound very nearly
-Original Message-
From: Michael Hoffman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 10 August 2001 2:20 a.m.
...
WHAT ABOUT CDDB? Your MD keyboarding solution can't take advantage of it.
You have to type titles yet again for every copy of the MD you produce. I
don't even have to
MCDEF WROTE
Well, you're wrong -- the difference is not that the CD player is superior.
While I do have some very nice CD equipment, one of my blind tests was
between a Optimus portable CD player -- one that cost $129.99 in 1994 -- and
an MZ-R50, one of the best MD portables ever made.
This topic has been banging on for long enough, and something very important
needs to be said.
MP3 is MP3, ATRAC is ATRAC, why are people trying to change this. ATRAC and
MiniDiscs have their advantages over MP3 (more dedicated towards audio, as
it is an audio based format), MP3 has advantages
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually the argument about the merits of the MZ-R50 vs the Sharp
model that was current at the time, was at times quite heated. There
were thread after thread here from the two camps. Many people felt
that the Sharp had superior sound (especially with regard to
macdef wrote:
But that had nothing to do with the D/A converters in each unit. It had to
do with the EQ of the headphone jacks. Sony headphone jacks are EQ'd to have
a flatter response, while Sharp headphone jacks are EQ'd to be warmer,
which includes a bit more bass/upper-bass. But those
The Mironics interface uses the parallel port, not the serial port,
Sorry about that, got confuzzed over which port it used
Stuart Howlette
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Woudenberg, Minidisc.org Editor
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To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: MD: MD inferior to MP3: it's not computer-literate
Michael Hoffman's email seems to have hit the list like a Rorschach
test, causing folks to take issue (at length!) with whatever
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= be more selective when quoting text =
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No, portables do it in the most time
This is because Win ME and 2k have no direct access to the
serial port, thus meaning the program will not work, and in
your case, screw up the system.
The Mironics interface uses the parallel port, not the serial port, but
WinME/2K don't have direct access to that, either. The Mironics
macdef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
True, but that doesn't make it so. My headphone amp has two inputs. I have
CD hooked into one, and MD into the other. I've done blind tests where I
played a CD and an MD of that CD at the same time with identical output
levels, and had someone else switch
Eric Woudenberg, Minidisc.org Editor wrote:
macdef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You really need to use the same DAC and line amplifier to compare
these two sources. Is it possible to try this experiment again with
the CD signal being routed through the MD recorder while the MD unit
is in
Why in the hell doesn't Xitel transfer the MP3 ID3 track titling?
Really want to know why? Because it uses the S/PDIF standard, which can
only, i repeat ONLY transfer SCMS in the subcode data, and also, S/PDIF
wasn't made for MiniDiscs, so it was not made to title MiniDiscs, which in
the case
No, portables do it in the most time consuming way, but even
that is a no-brainer thanks to the mironics interface
(www.mironics.com)
Unless it FUBARs your system I ordered the Mironics setup and it
didn't work, and when next I rebooted, Windows 2000 was completely
forqued, with an
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Granted, you have to spend a LOT more money on a vinyl system, and
put a LOT more care into it, to get sound comparable to a CD system,
but that's another story.
You would have to spend so much money that it would not be practical
for all but the wealthiest people
macdef wrote:
First off please excuse me for not addressing you by your name, but I didn't
notice it anywhere and I didn't want to refer to you as MACDEF.
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Granted, you have to spend a LOT more money on a vinyl system, and
put a LOT more care into it, to get
macdef wrote:
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is grossly irrelevant to assume 128 Kbps MP3 as the standard while
assuming 292 Kbps as the MD standard, then say MD sounds better than
MP3. This is all too obvious yet people insist on such obviously
unfair comparisons.
I never do. I
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Your points will not be valid for very long at all. We're about to be hit by
a tidal wave of MP3-capable CD players and related combinations of
technologies and features.
Michael, with all do respect. once again you are making statements
without
specific references
Michael Hoffman's email seems to have hit the list like a Rorschach
test, causing folks to take issue (at length!) with whatever part of
the MD/MP3/PC-audio equation raises their hackles.
So, please allow me my reading :-)
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Well then forget MD and
First of all, there are LPs without a cutoff of 15kHz. Second, even if
all
LPs were limited to 15kHz, the fact of the matter is that most humans over
the age of 15 can't really hear above 15kHz anyway. So that whole argument
is pretty much irrelevant.
So... you have pretty much made SACD
Eric Woudenberg, Minidisc.org Editor wrote:
Right! While I appreciate your bravery Michael, the sad fact is that
we (the users) are not permitted to decide which features and
conveniences modern audio gear will have. Not even the manufacturers
can. In this day and age the decision has been
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As you stated, this debate could go on forever. But after your
apparently derogatory statements about Rock, I realize it would be
pointless because we don't just disagree about analog vs digital. We
are on two different planets altogether!
Larry, I *never* made any
At 00:08 4-8-01 +0100, you wrote:
At 17:11 3-8-01 -0400, you wrote:
Tom P.D. Daniels wrote:
If I were able to double the bit rate of ATRAC I would get half the
storage space
but create MDs equivalent to cd-quality that even 'golden ear'
people might
not be able to detect the
from a technical paper looking at mp3 encoders
--
Now why would an encoder throw out everything past 16 kHz? Generally, musical
information is mostly located in the lower frequency bands, and, as I mentioned
before, our ability to hear high frequencies decreases with age. So, you might be
===
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= be more selective when quoting text =
===
i went to goto that web page and it wanted to
===
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= be more selective when quoting text =
===
I'm sorry that should've been:
Larry wrote:
Also, even MP3s are an improvement over vinyl, cassettes and FM.
macdef wrote:
Woah! Larry, now you're really out there ;) Vinyl on a good system
sounds as good as any CD, and FAR better than any MP3.
Larry replied:
From time to time I hear vinyl purists make claims like
Gerry Morgan wrote:
I hope that any
future, computer-literate flavour of minidisc that might emerge will
sound at least as good as what we have now. It does not necessarily follow
that it will. My older (late 1950s and 1960s) LPs generally sound better
than those from the 70s and 80s.
Hi
Your points will not be valid for very long at all. We're about to be hit by
a tidal wave of MP3-capable CD players and related combinations of
technologies and features.
MD is an audio storage media. It is completely self contained and capable of
recording live music via microphone or any
Michael Hoffman wrote,
| A Mini CDR blank is now $0.67 and should become $0.25, for 180 MB.
Is that in US dollars? I've yet to see them below $.50; with what crystal
ball do you see them dropping to $.25?
They'll be useful to me only if they show up as rewritables (in fact, a CDRW
that size
-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MD: MD inferior to MP3: it's not computer-literate
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:00:55 -0700
Your points will not be valid for very long at all. We're about to be hit
by
a tidal wave of MP3-capable CD players and related combinations of
technologies
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
MD needs to get better, which is why Sony is working hard on making
it more computer-literate. Compared to the MP3 way of doing things,
MD stores audio too slowly, often requires entering trackmarks
manually, and requires manual titling.
As I said
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Vinyl on a good system sounds as good as any CD, and FAR better than
any MP3.
How is that possible?? The cut off for frequencies on vinyl is 15,000
hz. The dynamic range is at best probably 70. Channel separation is
much lower. THD is much higher. The S/N ratio is
macdef wrote:
You make many valid points. but several statements that you made are not
accurate.
Granted, you have to spend a LOT more money on a vinyl system, and put a LOT
more care into it, to get sound comparable to a CD system, but that's
another story.
You would have to spend so much
of course you'r missing the point that mp3's sound like crap, but hey... I dj'd for
years and i learned a few things,
1) song names are obsolete, track numbers are where its at, i can remember every track
number for every song i'll want to lay or drop
2) most of the time i can't even
You're missing the point completely.
Who honestly cares about your concept of digital intelligence? It's all
about the digital format making high fidelity a true reality.
AMEN!!! The common user cares about convergence and ease of use. The
same people who drive a Chevy Lumina and use a 21
://sites.netscape.net/element5/
2048 bit DH 0x16DC15CD
From: Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MD: MD inferior to MP3: it's not computer-literate
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:18:51 -0700
Comparing MD to MP3 /is/ indeed an unfair comparison
Comparing MD to MP3 /is/ indeed an unfair comparison. Different
technologies, different uses.
But what does MD mean? What does MP3 mean? People have too fixed of a
cloud of mental associations with each. Is MD 5:1? Not necessarily. Is MD
ATRAC? Not necessarily. Is MD lossy? Not
I lost the original post on this subject, but I think you are only
looking at your particular use of it.
Did you ever try to record live music with an MP3 player?
If you did, were you able to erase the parts you didn't want to keep and
arrange the parts you wanted to keep in the order you
Tom P.D. Daniels wrote:
Generally ? meaning what ? it obviously depends on where you get the mp3.
When downloading from kazaa and the like, the quality indeed varies
greatly.BUT all the mp3s i created myself are either 256 or 320 kbps cbr or
lame vbr. This is equivalent to cd-quality
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is grossly irrelevant to assume 128 Kbps MP3 as the standard while
assuming 292 Kbps as the MD standard, then say MD sounds better than
MP3. This is all too obvious yet people insist on such obviously
unfair comparisons.
I never do. I equate MDLP to
At 17:11 3-8-01 -0400, you wrote:
Tom P.D. Daniels wrote:
Generally ? meaning what ? it obviously depends on where you get the mp3.
When downloading from kazaa and the like, the quality indeed varies
greatly.BUT all the mp3s i created myself are either 256 or 320 kbps cbr or
lame vbr.
I know that someone already mentioned this, but many of you are still missing the
point. MD is an audio storage media. It is completely self contained and capable
of recording live music via microphone or any standard analog line out and TOSlink
or mini plug digital PCM audio.
All you need is
macdef wrote:
Woah! Larry, now you're really out there ;) Vinyl on a good system sounds as
good as any CD, and FAR better than any MP3.
How is that possible?? The cut off for frequencies on vinyl is 15,000 hz. The
dynamic range is at best probably 70. Channel separation is much lower.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Tom P.D. Daniels
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MD: MD inferior to MP3: it's not computer-literate
At 17:11 3-8-01 -0400, you wrote:
Tom P.D. Daniels
Yes, I found that fairly to-the-point computer peripheral
too. This addresses most of my gripes about MD. MD sucks
compared to MP3 in that MD is totally not computer-literate.
Well, of course MP3 is computer-literate: as you quote, MP3 is a
computer peripheral. If you want to do anything
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