This include example and full diff's below as well.
May be this is a waist of time, but will see.
Some say they needs some details, then here is an example, and this took
me only about 30 minutes or so from start to finish, including getting
the source tree.
Doesn't mean it will be pick up,
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 10:30:05PM +0100, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
> >So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
> >reply one way or an other.
>
> My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
> swig, sent to ports@ after interaction with the
Hannah Schroeter wrote:
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
reply one way or an other.
My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
swig, sent to ports@ after interact
2007/11/3, Darren Spruell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Nov 3, 2007 4:29 AM, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > They write code, then they submit it, it does not suck too much and they
> > > take the suggestions of the current project leads. Then they resubmit
> > > better code.
> > >
> > >
Hi!
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
>So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
>reply one way or an other.
My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
swig, sent to ports@ after interaction with the maintai
Karel Kulhavy wrote:
Maybe the outsiders just cannot find the PR database. I put
"openbsd pr database" into google and looked into all links on the first
page. The pr database is always mentioned, but never linked. Where is it?
This only again proof the point of waisting time try to help. How m
Karel Kulhavy wrote:
You cannot, of course. But janitor being a rookie doesn't imply he doesn't know
what he's doing. He could be doing a job that doesn't require any special
knowledge - like rewriting documentation into a different format, fixing HTML
correctness, fixing typos and unclear places
On Nov 3, 2007 4:29 AM, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > They write code, then they submit it, it does not suck too much and they
> > take the suggestions of the current project leads. Then they resubmit
> > better code.
> >
> > The rest of us should simply buy CD's, ask and answer the
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:01:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> ...
>
> > We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
> > outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
>
> Maybe the o
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:16:50PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> >
> > Surely they are too busy whining at us for lists, to actually search
> > for the lists.
> >
> > I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain su
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:16:50PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > > > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
> > > > development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
> > > > encourage
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:05:20AM -0700, Dag Richards wrote:
> n0g0013 wrote:
> >On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
> >[ ... ]
> >>>and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> >>>possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> >>>significant barrier
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:01:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
| On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
| > We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
| > outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
|
| Maybe the outsiders
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:55:20PM +0100, Pierre Riteau wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> > On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > > we see how few people actu
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
> > > development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
> > > encourage people to enter the development cycle.
> >
> > The most amusing thing
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:01:46 +0100
Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
> > outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
>
> Maybe the outsiders just cannot find the PR database. I put
> "openbsd p
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> >On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> >[ ... ]
> >>> Yeah, right.
> >[ ... ]
> >> I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
> >> you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
> >> app
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:26:07PM +, Miod Vallat wrote:
> > Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a
> > list
> > of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
> > internals to be able to complete them properly.
>
> No, there isn't.
n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
re-visit this if it has failed before. perhaps, others are right,
perhaps linux can tolerate it because it's not as good as open
n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
>
> that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
> re-visit this if it has failed before. perhaps, others are right,
> perhaps linux can tolerate it because it's not as go
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:57:44PM -0700, Ted Unangst wrote:
> On 10/31/07, Peter N. M. Hansteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
> > > link not only will i offer to maintain it for the
On 2007 Oct 31, at 8:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower
> level development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to
> judge) to encourage people to enter the development cycle.
First, you're assuming that there exists
Men,
This is a long list of emails. I read them all for fun. You want to know
where to start, then you can simply do very simple things if you want as
simple as taking the code and check for very simple style(9) stuff as
simple as.
for example. style(9) is very specific about that. This is
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 07:28:05PM +0100, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:
> Unless I'm very mistaken what art was talking about is even linked
> from the www.openbsd.org front page.
For anyone still searching for art@'s mystical, elusive list, here's how
to find it...
G o o g l e
[O
On 10/31/07, Peter N. M. Hansteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
> > link not only will i offer to maintain it for the developers but will
> > endeavour to link-up with the website team to
On 10/31/07, Benjamin M. A'Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Surely the PR list is a fairly obvious place to look for things that need
> fixing?
For whatever reason, it wasn't.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Support doesn't mention it, and
the PR list, though linked on the front page, isn't e
n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
> link not only will i offer to maintain it for the developers but will
> endeavour to link-up with the website team to ensure it is easily
> found.
Unless I'm very mistaken what art was ta
> > I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
> > We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
> > wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time feeling any
> > loss.
>
> a software community is made of more than developers.
Clearly, yo
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:03:24PM +0100, Vincent GROSS wrote:
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
> > outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
> > more than whine whine whine.
>
Vincent GROSS wrote:
Okay, so if we're looking for a list of simple tasks to train
ourselves, PR list is a good place.
At least I've learned something today (mandatory whine : why did we
have to wait the 17th post to see this list mentioned ?).
the PR database is quite well visible on the OpenB
Theo de Raadt wrote:
>
> geez, is this kindergarden?
>
Not yet, despite valiant efforts to the contrary.
CDs shipped today. I might even use 'em.
I do use this list. One of few refuges of sanity.
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 31.10-09:53, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > There is no community that you speak of.
>
> that much is apparent.
>
> > There are people who write diffs, and people who _don't_ write diffs.
> >
> > In that sub-group of people who don't write di
On 10/31/07, Marcus Andree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If we had such documentation, even if it isn't kept up-to-date, it would be a
> start point. As I stated in an earlier message, OpenBSD code is very, very
> readable. It could be used in lots of college classes around the world. A
> book could
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:50:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
> On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
> >
> > here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
> > and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
> > of your own.
>
> anyone, who thinks that learning and deve
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 01:41:14PM -0200, Marcus Andree wrote:
>
>
> > as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
> > here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
> > and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
> > of your own.
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:28:03PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
> On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > > and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> > > possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> > > significant barrier to encouraging new/y
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
> > We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
> > wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:56:29PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
> On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
> > We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
> > wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a d
n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
Well that's the point of it; or at least, a
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> why must we railroad ourselves to a decision before the discussion
> has even happened? it would appear that most do not want the discussion
> to happen even though they are neither obligated to participate or
> action the ideas within it. that is
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:50:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
> On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > > on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
> > > unable to communicate productively otherwise.
> >
> > as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
All the developers currently active in OpenBSD have followed the same
process: scratch their own itch.
Start using OpenBSD. Notice things which are not perfect (there are a lot
of them), fix them. Get noticed. Once you send enough correct fixes, you
get an account. If your fixes are bogus, we will
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
> unable to communicate productively otherwise.
On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 13:41 -0200, Marcus Andree wrote:
> If we had such documentation, even if it isn't kept up-to-date, it would be a
> start point. As I stated in an earlier message, OpenBSD code is very, very
Design and Implementation of the 4.4. BSD Operating System
On 31.10-16:44, Artur Grabowski wrote:
[ ... ]
> > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
> > development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
> > encourage people to enter the development cycle.
>
> The most amusing thing about this thread is that
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:01:03PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> on
> On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > > and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> > > possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> > > significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
> >
> > Well that's the point of it; or
On 31.10-10:05, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> the problem is not our lists.
[ ... ]
> but no. they intend to keep whining, and saying it is our fault.
where you get the "your fault" from is unfathomable. neither is anyone
suggesting that the problem is "our lists", simply that a list of
"simple
On 31.10-09:53, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> There is no community that you speak of.
that much is apparent.
> There are people who write diffs, and people who _don't_ write diffs.
>
> In that sub-group of people who don't write diffs, there are a few who
> whine loudly and say we are the reas
Okay, so if we're looking for a list of simple tasks to train
ourselves, PR list is a good place.
At least I've learned something today (mandatory whine : why did we
have to wait the 17th post to see this list mentioned ?).
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On 31.10-08:40, T
On 10/31/07, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> How can
> as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
> here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
> and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
> of your own.
> cu
> --
Good point.
I was wondering what to do next, once/if I can finis
On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
[ ... ]
> > on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
> > unable to communicate productively otherwise.
>
> as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
> here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
On 31.10-09:25, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> Lists have been made before, by a few developers.
>
> It did not work then, and it won't work now.
>
> Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
re-visit this if
On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
> We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
> wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time feeling any
> loss.
a software community is made of
> > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
> > development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
> > encourage people to enter the development cycle.
>
> The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a list has been
> published for years (it'
n0g0013 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i personally find it quite
> disheartening to hear the attitude that prevails here but that's the
> community's decision. it certainaly seems to refelect the attitute
> of it's leaders (developers).
>
Instead of doing something useful like reading code, identi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
> development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
> encourage people to enter the development cycle.
The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a list has been
published
> and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
>
No, the severe and prevelent attitude toward the possiblilty of poor
patches or under-edu
>On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>[ ... ]
>> > Yeah, right.
>[ ... ]
>> I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
>> you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
>> approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are
>> you wor
>On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>[ ... ]
>> They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
>> we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
>> to write in english...
>
>on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
>unable to
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
> > and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> > possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> > significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
>
> Well that's the point of it; or at least, a u
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:01:03PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> on
On 10/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > > Yeah, right.
> [ ... ]
>
> and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
> possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
> significant ba
* Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-31 08:40]:
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> How
On 10/31/07, Bob Beck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-31 08:40]:
> > On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > Obviously patches will be subject to peer review. Even if a patch isn't
> > > > approved, the coder should have learned so
On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> to write in english...
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to communic
On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
> > Yeah, right.
[ ... ]
> I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
> you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
> approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are
> you worried at
Nick Guenther wrote:
>
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started
> coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead,
> they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> How can we get started on the
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> to write in english...
How can we get started on the code
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> to write in english...
How can we get started on the code unless we have some idea of where
to st
> Just posting your task list on this list isn't a commitment to coach
> new developers, but can provide a solid material to start coding.
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english
Gerardo Santana Gsmez Garrido wrote:
2007/10/30, Miod Vallat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
No,
Agreed
I needed to peek OpenBSD code a couple months ago and found it
extremely readable. Doing simple tasks can be a better path leading
to new kernel engineers.
Just posting your task list on this list isn't a commitment to coach
new developers, but can provide a solid material to start cod
On 30.10-20:26, Miod Vallat wrote:
> [ ... ] That's when you need as much support as possible. And
> that's the kind of support I, as an individual, can not provide.
i believe the task list itself would be positive , even if not much
happens around it. they are good for the community as
2007/10/30, Miod Vallat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a
> > list
> > of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
> > internals to be able to complete them properly.
>
> No, there isn't.
>
> There are, h
> Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
> of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
> internals to be able to complete them properly.
No, there isn't.
There are, however, two de-facto janitors for the OpenBSD kernels:
martin@
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
CL<
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