On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:39:32 +0100, Brian Schweitzer
brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote:
This proposal has been stalled for a year or so now, and the
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AudioBook_Style still is unofficial (and the
wikipage is in need of some serious attention). Fridtjof or
This proposal has been stalled for a year or so now, and the
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AudioBook_Style still is unofficial (and the
wikipage is in need of some serious attention). Fridtjof or anyone else
willing to get this done?
Brian
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Fridtjof Busse
* Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com:
Someone needs to take it on as champion for the guideline, draft and
send the list a RFC, draft a wikipage for the new guideline, and add
a RFC ticket to the style issues section in trac. As you brought it
up originally, I'd guess you're the
* Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com:
I'm a bit indifferent as to the book titles being there or not, but
at least for the story titles, that works for me.
How to proceed from here? Anybody more familiar with proposing
guidelines than me?
Talking endlessly about this isn't going
Someone needs to take it on as champion for the guideline, draft and send
the list a RFC, draft a wikipage for the new guideline, and add a RFC ticket
to the style issues section in trac. As you brought it up originally, I'd
guess you're the champion de facto, unless you don't want to be. :)
@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:28:53 +0100
Are there any real arguments against using what's already used for
releases with several discs: [disc x]?
I.e. Chaptername [part 1]
___
Musicbrainz
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
Well, other than the fact that the current style guidelines specify
(disc x) with parentheses and not [disc x] with brackets, no.
Of course, you're right.
Must be some sort of interstellar radiation that got me confused ;)
OK, to (correctly) sum this up:
Any
There is already a PartNumberStyle -
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PartNumberStyle :)
(disc X) is sort of a special case
2009/1/19 Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de:
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
Well, other than the fact that the current style guidelines specify
(disc x) with parentheses and not
I thought PartNumberStyle was for tracks which are somehow labeled as
parts on the cover/in the booklet?
Here I think Fridtjof is saying Let's add '(part X)' for chapters
which are split up in several tracks. If so, he is perhaps modifying
Bogdan's note x (where he said it is recommended to
Chris B wrote:
2009/1/19 Leiv Hellebo leiv.hell...@gmail.com:
I guess there is not much harm in using PNS also for these cases, but
Bogdan's careful wording is wise: Sometimes you do find Part 1 etc. in
books, and Part 1, Part 2 looks weird...
according to PNS, it should be Part 1 2 or
Why don't we just leave part 1 out of the track title unless it is
a) part of the chapter name or b) printed on the cover/booklet.
We don't really need to put part numbers in the track titles if they
aren't on the back cover/booklet. If the CD says Tracks 1-4: Chapter
1 why don't we just set the
Aaron Cooper wrote:
It looks like we've decided to drop the book name from the track
titles though - I think we should keep this info there for reasons
that have been previously discussed.
But isn't this only a good idea when the audiobook contains more than
one book? If so, my opinion is
I think the book title is an important piece of information - much
like the work title in classical music. We always put the work and
then the movement in classical track titles even if there is only one
work on a release. I think we should apply the similar rule here.
-cooperaa
On Mon, Jan
Aaron Cooper wrote:
I think the book title is an important piece of information - much
like the work title in classical music.
Sure.
We always put the work and
then the movement in classical track titles even if there is only one
work on a release.
As I'm sure you remember I started a
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Leiv Hellebo leiv.hell...@gmail.com wrote:
Aaron Cooper wrote:
I think the book title is an important piece of information - much
like the work title in classical music.
Sure.
We always put the work and
then the movement in classical track titles even if
Aaron Cooper wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Leiv Hellebo wrote:
Aaron Cooper wrote:
We always put the work and
then the movement in classical track titles even if there is only one
work on a release.
That's still how we do it in the classical world and how the examples
are in
* Aaron Cooper coope...@gmail.com:
For a post later in that thread I did some checking and found that
the include-workname-even-for-opera-and-similar-practice was not
common earlier, but became more common during 2007. The reason for
it becoming more common was discussions om mb-style
.
-Original Message-
From: Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 05:59:07 +0100
* Aaron Cooper coope
* Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com:
I would disagree, or at least, clarify. I have a lot of audiobooks
of short stories. These do include only one book, normally, but up
to a dozen or more short stories. How would these types of releases
have their tracks titled?
Can you
There are several Stephen King audiobooks which would fit this description.
Issac Asimov and Ray Bradbury also spring to mind as having audiobooks
available of some of their short story collections.
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de wrote:
* Brian Schweitzer
+1 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:27:44 -0500 From: coope...@gmail.com To:
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook
styleguide Why don't we just leave part 1 out of the track title unless it
is a) part of the chapter name or b) printed on the cover/booklet. We
: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:35:07 -0500
Well, in that edge case, why not then hyphenate?
Track 12:
Chapter 2. The Russians are Coming, Part 1 - 1
Track 13:
Chapter 2. The Russians are Coming, Part 1 - 2
Track 14:
Chapter 2: The Russians are Coming, Part 1
Excellent :)
Leiv
(But perhaps #3 should be qualified For tracks lacking names, use UTS,
which recommends...?)
Bogdan Butnaru wrote:
I don't much like adding something directly to a track that isn't in
its original title (however lacking it is). Except for disc numbers,
pretty much
* Bogdan Butnaru bogd...@gmail.com:
Since we're discussing guidelines, I think it's a good idea to just
list the clear and easy cases, put some options for harder cases, and
drop a lot words like reasonable and good sense and even common
accord of interested parties...
So basically this:
If a
. ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:54:18 +0100
* Bogdan Butnaru bogd...@gmail.com
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
I still somehow think it's useful to distinguish between parts of a
chapter, spanning multiple tracks. Giving 5 tracks the same name
creates ambiguity IMO; based on its title, a track segment can easily
be mistaken for being the complete chapter.
I think this
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:05:25 +0100
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
I still somehow think it's useful to distinguish between parts of a
chapter, spanning multiple tracks. Giving 5 tracks the same name
creates
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
With roman numerals, how would you distinguish between what might be
legitimately a part of the chapter title, and what is being added as
MB metadata?
The same holds true for every addition to the chaptertitle.
A normal number might actually be part of the
...@lists.musicbrainz.org
[mailto:musicbrainz-style-boun...@lists.musicbrainz.org] On
Behalf Of Fridtjof Busse
Sent: January-15-09 12:58 PM
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
With roman numerals, how would you
2009/1/15 Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
With roman numerals, how would you distinguish between what might be
legitimately a part of the chapter title, and what is being added as
MB metadata?
The same holds true for every addition to the chaptertitle.
A
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/1/15 Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
I always wondered why we don't use a seldom used punctuation to separate
original titles from MB metadata. We could say that whatever follows -MB is
not part of the original
Message-
From: Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:58:03 +0100
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
With roman
/ Showing off / Tom Lionized, Part 2
-Original Message-
From: Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
2009/1/15 Pavan Chander pchan...@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/1/15 Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
I always wondered why we don't use a seldom used punctuation to separate
original titles from MB metadata. We could say that
%20style%20discussion%20%3cmusicbrainz-st...@lists.musicbrainz.org%3e
*Subject*: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
*Date*: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:25:59 -0800
I'm now going to naively suggest that we indicate the segment number in
parentheses, much as we do with disc numbering in release titles
with anything.
-Original Message-
From: Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu
discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:25:59 -0800
I'm now going to naively suggest that we indicate
Works for me. +1
-Original Message-
From: Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
I don't much like adding something directly to a track that isn't in
its original title (however lacking it is). Except for disc numbers,
pretty much everything we add in title fields actually appears on some
cover somewhere, even if it's adjusted for style issues.
The only big exception that
: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:01:45 +0100
OK, where do we go from here?
Seems like it can be agreed on that prefixing the tracks with Chapter
x is not ideal.
But where do we go from here? One option would be
$Chaptername, 1 (I don't really like
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Per Øyvind Øygard
pero...@stud.ntnu.no wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:27:20 +0100, Bogdan Butnaru bogd...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net wrote:
I'm naively going to ask the question, why not use numbering if the
+1
Aaron Cooper schreef:
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de wrote:
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
If there is only one track for the chapter, then it would be:
* Chapter 01: $name
* Chapter 02: $name
...
This was originally proposed by
-Original Message-
From: Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:42:33 +0100
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
If there is only one track for the chapter, then it would be:
* Chapter 01: $name
* Chapter 02: $name
...
This was originally proposed by Keschte in AudioBookStyle, and was
intended to keep tracks sorted properly if the trackname was the only
cue.
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Fridtjof Busse fbu...@gmx.de wrote:
* Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net:
If there is only one track for the chapter, then it would be:
* Chapter 01: $name
* Chapter 02: $name
...
This was originally proposed by Keschte in AudioBookStyle, and was
Fridtjof Busse wrote:
I also don't like using Chapter 1-2 to designate a sub-part of a
chapter. For classical releases, we use Chapter IIIa for standard
sub-parts and Chapter III-ii for non-standard divisions (I believe
there was some support behind this although it was never made an
* Leiv Hellebo leiv.hell...@gmail.com:
I don't think I see anything positive about sub-part numbering.
I never used any sub-part numbering for the audiobook-releases I
entered. I agree to need needing it either, but what we IMO is a
styleguide that says if this is the way to go or not.
It is not
Hello,
as quickly as the discussion erupted, it died.
I'm aware that there are many different type of audiobook releases and
a single styleguide is most likely not able to catch every single one
of them. Still, I'd like to at leat get a version finalized that
catches 80% of the normal releases.
I
Hi,
I'd like to bring up a topic that seems to have been forgotten for some
time now: The audiobook styleguide.
There's an inofficial one at [1], but both authors are not working on
musicbrainz any longer and the last discussion on the ML dates back to
June 2007.
I recently added some audiobooks
My really quick attempt at a AudiobookStyle would be:
Track titles should be:
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, Chapter 1
If there are chapter titles:
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, Chapter 1: Title of Chapter 1
If a chapter is spanned across multiple tracks:
A Journey to the Center
You wouldn't include an ordering sequence?
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 0:Prologue
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 1:Chapter 1a
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 2:Chapter 1b
2009/1/7 Aaron Cooper coope...@gmail.com
My really quick attempt at a AudiobookStyle would be:
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Aaron Cooper coope...@gmail.com wrote:
My really quick attempt at a AudiobookStyle would be:
Track titles should be:
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, Chapter 1
If there are chapter titles:
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, Chapter 1: Title of
I don't think that would be necessary, and it looks ugly don't you
think? The track numbers already provide ordering for the user.
mfmeulenbelt
Op 7-1-2009 15:06, Frederic Da Vitoria schreef:
You wouldn't include an ordering sequence?
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 0:Prologue
A Journey
* Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com:
You wouldn't include an ordering sequence?
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 0:Prologue
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 1:Chapter 1a
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, 2:Chapter 1b
I honestly have a problem with repeating the release
I agree, why would we do that for audiobooks if we don't do that for
regular music?
Do people play audiobooks with different software that is not able to
read tags?
Just:
Chapter 1: foo
Chapter 2-4: bar
seems fine by me, and it is a lot less cluttered.
People can always use tagger scripts if
I'd just also point out, everyone's thinking of your standard audiobooks, be
they a single book or a collection of short stories. But what about your
less standard ones? A couple of examples I can think of:
Totally non-standard:
* Bram van Dijk bram_van_d...@hotmail.com:
I agree, why would we do that for audiobooks if we don't do that for
regular music?
Do people play audiobooks with different software that is not able to
read tags?
Just:
Chapter 1: foo
Chapter 2-4: bar
seems fine by me, and it is a lot less
Yes, it is unncessary. Bad idea :-)
2009/1/7 Maurits Meulenbelt maurits.meulenb...@gmail.com
I don't think that would be necessary, and it looks ugly don't you think?
The track numbers already provide ordering for the user.
mfmeulenbelt
Op 7-1-2009 15:06, Frederic Da Vitoria schreef:
Ah, but the book is not the release. There may be more than one book in
one release and a book is of course often spanned on more that one release.
2009/1/7 Bram van Dijk bram_van_d...@hotmail.com
I agree, why would we do that for audiobooks if we don't do that for
regular music?
Do people
Also, including the book/work name is used in the CSG.
On 7-Jan-09, at 9:59 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ah, but the book is not the release. There may be more than one
book in one release and a book is of course often spanned on more
that one release.
2009/1/7
OK, I guess I should have though some more before replying.
I now agree that adding the book name to the track titles really is a
good idea.
Bram
Aaron Cooper schreef:
Also, including the book/work name is used in the CSG.
On 7-Jan-09, at 9:59 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:00 AM
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Ah, but the book is not the release. There may be more than one book in
one release and a book is of course often spanned on more that one release.
2009/1/7 Bram van Dijk bram_van_d
Well, it may be, but it may not be too. Now that I have pushed in one
direction, watch me pulling in the other. Who was saying that MB was a
madhouse a few days ago?
In classical, we need this because
- works are often small enough that more than one work fits on one release
- quite a few
Ah, the joy of musicbrainz!
Well, right now I think (which can change pretty soon as history has
shown) that for an audiobook, the book/work that the track comes from is
more important than with pop music. Most pop albums (especially in case
of compilations) are just collections of songs,
On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 09:29:51AM -0600, Matt Ross wrote:
One more point on the mp3 players what I have found out is the play all
works every time only if the Disc and Track name is the first and second
fields on the track name. no guarantees if appended at the end of the name
in some cases
On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 09:36:47AM -0500, Brian Schweitzer wrote:
I'd just also point out, everyone's thinking of your standard audiobooks, be
they a single book or a collection of short stories. But what about your
less standard ones? A couple of examples I can think of:
Totally
discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
To: MusicBrainz style discussion
musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audiobook styleguide
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:00:18 -0600
Okay - I'm new here... Still reading my way through some of the
conversations from the archives
* Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com:
What are your ideas?
I would pretty much like to stick tot he naming scheme the booklet uses.
Right now, I'm not even adding something like chapter x for tracks,
unless it's used in the official naming.
But the most of the comments basically agree that
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