This race exists, because American employees keeps many unnecessary
expenses, making local workforce
very expensive. In reality, even if people in India or Russia will have the
same life level as in USA, they will cost 2 - 3 times less.
There are many core reasons, driving work costs up and
Nicole wrote:
China is a communist and closed loop society. Thats teh real problem. The
company that claims it runs the internet (or some such phrase) is now saying
we prefer communist China than America and American Jobs.
Who are you to say communism's bad if you've never even tried it?
Ricardo,
If I were you, I'd atleast pipe my shit through aspell a couple hundred times, before
I even consider hitting 'y'.
That's euphemism. And to you believe everything the liberal news
media says? As I recall, this whole thread (which, I might add, is
You mean And do you..., right?
: 5167666068
mobile: 5164564983
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 7:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Cisco moves even more to china.
Its time for all
American Tech workers to stand up
Sorry - I tried it; I can said that it is BAD.
- Original Message -
From: Ricardo Rick Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Peter Galbavy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china
The only event that is driving this, is Cisco wants to
dominate the Chinese market and the only way to sell
in China is to manufacture product there, using their
people to manufacture, that is how the game is played
there and for the chinese it makes sense, considering
the government there has
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Robin Lynn Frank wrote:
Hey, Mr. Spelling Bee, it is *their*, not there. So, you can't make an
argument that is valid and focus on the spelling?
This thread has gotten a bit long in the tooth, so I'm waiting for
Godwin's law to take effect.
Had you written above with s/\(Hey,
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:41:16 -0400
Ricardo \Rick\ Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
of people their. Probobly mostly the execs smiling about their
payoff and
there is the word you're looking for, not their
Hey, Mr. Spelling Bee, it is *their*, not there. So, you
can't make
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
This race exists, because American employees keeps many unnecessary
expenses, making local workforce
very expensive. In reality, even if people in India or Russia will have the
same life level as in USA, they will cost 2 - 3 times less.
There are many core reasons, driving
At 02:23 PM 9/25/2004, you wrote:
engagement is fair trade. Lessaiz Faire economics was tried about 100
years ago. It resulted in the Great Depression and children dying of
tuberculosis in the factories. Why does anyone think it'll work today?
Curtis,
I tried to stay out of this since it
]
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
At 02:23 PM 9/25/2004, you wrote:
engagement is fair trade. Lessaiz Faire economics was tried about 100
years ago. It resulted in the Great Depression and children dying of
tuberculosis
Robert Boyle wrote:
[snip]
I answered this off list with references. If anyone is interested,
contact me off list.
Curtis
really is not falling.
Scott
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Henry Linneweh
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:42 PM
To: Alexei Roudnev; Paul Jakma; Robin Lynn Frank
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china
Godwin's Law:
As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
See also:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/
- ferg
-- Scott Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Someone in a previous e-mail mentioned someone's law about
teached Cisco networking in Russia, and it
was very
useful for the students. )
- Original Message -
From: Robert Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Curtis Maurand [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
At 02
Nicole wrote:
So.. I guess we will be cranking out those H1b's...Plan to kiss your
raises
and or jobs bye bye to some specialized cheap imported Cisco trained
networking person from China.
There is an implicit assumption here that the objective of 100% of these
trainees will be to move as
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 03:53, Joseph wrote:
Its time for all American Tech workers to stand up and let our voices
be heard.
Perhaps it's time instead to make sure you're good at what you do and
try to be on the forefront of tech, rather than whining about how all
those bad people from abroad
- Original Message -
From: Erik Haagsman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: Cisco moves even more to china.
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 03:53, Joseph wrote:
Its time for all American Tech workers
Its time for all
American Tech workers to stand up and let our voices be heard.
Yes, definitely. Emigrate to the countries where the jobs are
going to. Learn to speak a new language if necessary, after all
you are all smart people, right? Learning a new human language
only takes a couple of
Hello Erik,
Although I agree with you on many points I think its time people stop complaining and take action. My point was not to idly complain about the outsourcing trend and claim that protectionism is the answer but, to ask if there is a better way to deal with the long term trend for ALL of
Then you all need to stop purchasing from Dell, IBM, HP, Cisco, et al.
They've all outsourced quite a bit to the third world. 90% of the parts
for any of this stuff come from Asia. The US has lost more
manufacturing jobs in the last 3 years then the previous 22. There are
18% fewer tech
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik
Haagsman
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:55 PM
To: Dan Mahoney, System Admin
Cc: Nicole; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 02:29, Dan Mahoney, System
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Curtis Maurand
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
The way to fix things is to remove the incentives to move the jobs
overseas in the first place.
So are you suggesting wages (and standard of living) in America are
reduced to the level of those in the 3rd world?
--
Roland
Hi Joseph,
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 13:19, Joseph wrote:
Your perception of Americans I think is very skewed by the media.
You obviously did not read my post and wanted take a cheap shot.
Although this is hardly the place to discuss this, I never said
Americans, I said we. I'm Dutch, and we've
Yeah, but don't they already have a company over there that
is producing Cisco stuff? Or did I mis-read a lawsuit?
Cisco don't have a choice, they are starting to see the
competition from Chinese companies already - they need to
reduce the cost of manufacturing so that they can stay
The way to fix things is to remove the incentives to move the jobs
overseas in the first place.
So are you suggesting wages (and standard of living) in America are
reduced to the level of those in the 3rd world?
Hmmm...
A beginning software engineer in Bangalore makes 15,000 Rupees
per
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Joseph wrote:
Modern capitalism does create a race to the bottom effect for labor
which seems to have no end.
This race exists because of imbalances in prosperity in world. The
ultimate effect will be to completely level standard of living in the
world, which in the greater
Neil J. McRae wrote:
www.huawei.com
I've recently see one of Huawei's 1760 alternative boxes and
the build quality is fantastic.
As a matter of fact, Huawei outsources a lot of its coding / design to
their sei-cmm5 certified operation in Bangalore, India, and its shenzhen
campus has at least a
In article
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
If you really want to try and stop the wave, go ahead,
but I think you should do that work elsewhere.
I'm all in favour of enhancing the wave; but who is worst off, the
American engineer who fears the day he can't afford the payments on his
Great...So Cisco is turning into the Nike of technology.
I can't wait to see 11 year olds building routers that sell for $1.5 million
USD, while getting paid 7 cents/hour.
[Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 04:49:11PM -0700]
Nicole Inscribed these words...
Lovely, Just lovely. Just heard On
]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
Great...So Cisco is turning into the Nike of technology.
I can't wait to see 11 year olds building routers that sell for $1.5
million
USD, while getting paid 7 cents/hour.
[Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 04:49:11PM -0700]
Nicole Inscribed these words
On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 10:45:01AM -0400, Drew Weaver wrote:
I just find the whole idea of Cisco amusing, they still sell new
7500 series routers for 6 figures with the right configurations, and
they've been around for 10 years, in what other industry can you take a
product that is a decade
Outsourcing is a way of life. It is a result of free trade policy. It has
been happening for a long time in the other industries. There are very real
benefits to the outsourcing. It helps keep our cost of living down (I live
in California). On the other hand, it is very hard on the folks whose
Then you all need to stop purchasing from Dell, IBM, HP, Cisco, et al.
Of course. Don't purchase from DELL, purchase from ServersDirect.
Don't purchase from HP, purchase (for home) from brand-less or E-Machine.
Don't purchase from EMC, purchase from Adap. Are any idiots here, who
purchase CA
24, 2004 7:19 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Cisco moves even more to
china.
Hello Erik,
Although I agree with you on many points I
think its time people stop complaining and take action. My point was not to idly
complain about the outsourcing trend and claim that
Nicole wrote:
Lovely, Just lovely. Just heard On CNN, Lou Dobbs. (but can't find it on
their site)
Well if Lou Dobbs said it on the air, then it must be true...
The current wave of outsourcing is driven by greed and greed alone.
What's going on now would make Gordon Gekko blush. There is nothing
stopping the companies from paying the workers in India or China the
prevailing wage in the developed countries which would really accelerate
growth in these
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Robin Lynn Frank wrote:
This race exists because of imbalances in prosperity in world.
This race exists because governments beholden to corporate interests,
permit it to exist.
No, with free trade, it exists because of imbalance.
Unless of course you are completely against
On 24-Sep-04 the GW commando coersion squad reported Peter Galbavy said :
Nicole wrote:
So.. I guess we will be cranking out those H1b's...Plan to kiss your
raises
and or jobs bye bye to some specialized cheap imported Cisco trained
networking person from China.
There is an implicit
Thus spake Nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 24-Sep-04 the GW commando coersion squad reported Peter Galbavy said :
Nicole wrote:
So.. I guess we will be cranking out those H1b's...Plan to kiss your
raises
and or jobs bye bye to some specialized cheap imported Cisco trained
networking person from China.
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Cisco moves even more to china.
Lovely, Just lovely. Just heard On CNN, Lou Dobbs. (but can't find it on
their site)
During a Beijing news conference John Chambers (Cisco
Nicole wrote:
Lovely, Just lovely. Just heard On CNN, Lou Dobbs. (but can't find it on
their site)
During a Beijing news conference John Chambers (Cisco CEO) Says We believe in
giving something back and truly becoming a Chineese company. China will
become the IT center or the world China will
Hmm..we're flooded by CCNA's and CCNP's that often hardly know how logon
to a router as it is, so this will probably add a lot more, a bit like
the MCSE craze a few years ago ;-)
When they say training thousands of students, they're not talking
thousands of CCIE-level specialists that actually
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Erik Haagsman wrote:
I've always personally taken anyone who said but I'm an MCSE with a
grain of salt. I've had equal respect for the A-plus and Net-Plus
certifications, which are basically bought.
I used to have more trust in the /CC../ certifications but I find I may be
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 02:29, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
I've always personally taken anyone who said but I'm an MCSE with a
grain of salt. I've had equal respect for the A-plus and Net-Plus
certifications, which are basically bought.
I take most certifications with a grain of salt,
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik
Haagsman
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:55 PM
To: Dan Mahoney, System Admin
Cc: Nicole; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 02:29, Dan Mahoney, System Admin
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:55 PM
To: Dan Mahoney, System Admin
Cc: Nicole; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 02:29, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
I've always personally taken anyone who said but I'm an MCSE with a
grain of salt. I've had
: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:55 PM
To: Dan Mahoney, System Admin
Cc: Nicole; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china.
On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 02:29, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote:
I've always personally taken anyone who said but I'm an MCSE with a
grain of salt
Hello Everyone,
Hey, I feel your pain and am seeing the same things happen all over our industry. Sadly, globalization is not a new trend and it will never end but I think its time WE alter its course. Its time for all American Tech workers to stand up and let our voices be heard. Modern
Joseph [23/09/04 18:53 -0700]:
Don't Support Outsourcing
I suggest you lead by example.
Don't buy from companies that outsource US jobs. Be very vocal and
Now please go unplug all your cisco and juniper equipment.
Then open up your servers and remove all the RAM / hard disks etc that
Hello Suresh,
I appreciate and respect your opinion. Please offer me that same respect in kind. Iam aware of the fact of our diverseglobal economy and only think as many in US do we should be fair and equitable to all parties WORLDWIDE.
Respectfully yours,
JosephSuresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL
] On Behalf Of Joseph
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004
9:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more
to china.
Hello Suresh,
I appreciate and respect your opinion. Please offer
me that same respect in kind. Iam aware of the fact of our
100
engineers, you will always have most of them bad).
So, let's just wait a little.
- Original Message -
From:
Joe Johnson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:15
PM
Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to
china.
While it is certainly
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