Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread Darin Martin
Me too.. Epic is doing the same thing.. Making the Linux client available for download instaed of including it on the CD.. I guess we cant expect miracles overnight.. At least companies are starting to recognize that Linux users want to play games. - Original Message - From: Seth

[newbie] Built in Soundcard....

1999-11-21 Thread Mike Perry
Help needed desperately! My motherboard has a built in Soundcard based on a CMI8330 chip. In Windoze98 it appears as follows: Dos mode mpu401 emmulator i/o 0310-0311 External midi mpu401i/o 0300-0301 Joystick device i/o 0200-0207 SB16 audio device

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: CompUSA, Bestbuy, and Linuxmall will all carry it when it's released i'd wager. Kewl. I'll have to see if I can put in a "pre-order" order. ;-) Thanks, man! :-) John

Re: [newbie] segmentation fault?

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: Hi John, I tried from a console window within KDE and I unpack it whit tar xfv file.tar Oder. I don't recall how I did it, but you might try running ./setup (or whatever) from a console TTY (NOT a console window.) I don't know why it would make any

[newbie] remove

1999-11-21 Thread wbwinslow
-- William B. Winslow

RE: [newbie] ADSL?

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, John Aldrich wrote: On Fri, 19 Nov 1999, you wrote: While this is fine if you have a box to destroy, I mean put windows on. I'm sure they have a tech that can verify the ethernet connection with a laptop. Setting up the network

Re: [newbie] segmentation fault?

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, Oder Santos wrote: John Aldrich wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: My processor is a intel 200MHz with MMX, 96 MB EDO DRAM - notebook toshiba 315 CDS - and 350MB free drive space. regards, Oder. Hmm..Pentium

Re: [newbie] Re: your mail

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: On 20 Nov 1999, Jaguar wrote: Can I boot from LM 6.0 CDRom, and then using a cable modem point to LM 6.1 on an FTP and end up with a working LM 6.1??? TIA Jaugar no, the cd would need to be remade to use the network.img instead of the cdrom.img from

Re: [newbie] eth0

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: Hey everyone. When booting, it takes FOREVER to start interface eth0. Is it plugged into anything? John

[newbie] Re:

1999-11-21 Thread Mark E Hood
Dood, I thought i told you to beat it? So scram. Get the hell on out of here. You're clearly not interested in discussing Linux. Axalon? You with me here? M H - Original Message - From: Mike J. Kesow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 11:43 AM

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: I'm still waiting (myself) to find out where/when I can buy the Linux version of Q3 Arena. :-) I called Id software on Friday and they said they don't have a release date yet. :-( Yah rumor was nov 24, then dec 7. .

Re: [newbie] M$ windows finally Y2K safe (joke)

1999-11-21 Thread Mark E Hood
Did you mean to include a URL with this message? Mark - Original Message - From: Carsten M. Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 6:42 AM Subject: [newbie] M$ windows finally Y2K safe (joke) Hi! Check this one out. Some of you might get

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Me too.. Epic is doing the same thing.. Making the Linux client available for download instaed of including it on the CD.. I guess we cant expect miracles overnight.. At least companies are starting to recognize that Linux users want to play games. And Id

Re: [newbie] How to

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: I install StarOffice in my root under "Gnome and X apps" k menus but I'm not found it in my user account,why ? please advise how can i install [StarOffice] it in my user account ? You probably needed to do an "install --net" to get multi-user support.

[newbie] Athlon Linux

1999-11-21 Thread Jeff Filapose
I'm going to build a new computer and wanted to know if there is any problems with the athlon cpu and linux. I'm going to be using an Athlon 550Mhz and the FIC SD11 motherboard with PC133 Ram. Any input would help. If I can't use linux with it, I'll go with another setup. Thanks a lot. Jeff

[newbie] epson stylus color 740 and laptops

1999-11-21 Thread Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia
I just bought an epson stylus color 740 printer that i would like to get working under linux 6.1. I used printtool hit the add button. It said it found a device at lp0. I hit the select button and choose the epson one (i think it is the last one that says epson color). In that category, there is

Re: [newbie] It's here

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Hey John, quake3 official demo (test version anyway?) is out. . .grab it now before everyone finds out about it!!! yes i know it's sad ive been sitting here the last 2 hrs waiting for carmack's announcement. . .no, i have no life(:-D :-) I just need it

Re: [newbie] Scanner

1999-11-21 Thread John Aldrich
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: Sorry, John, parallel. How's this from the SANE-mustek.5 notes: "Note that this scanner comes with its own ISA card that implements a funky parallel port (in other words the scanner is not connected to the printer parallel port. The code present in this

Re: [newbie] M$ windows finally Y2K safe (joke)

1999-11-21 Thread David van Balen
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Carsten M. Larsen wrote: Hi! Check this one out. Some of you might get at giggle out of this :o). Try clicking on "my computer", and "start". Also try right-click :o) You'll find something something about Linux there too (perhaps Bill's secret dream :o) By the

Re: [newbie] epson stylus color 740 and laptops

1999-11-21 Thread Jeanette Russo
I am using a PRO STAR / Saeger they work well with Linux. There tech support is not good however but they work well Jeanette - Original Message - From: Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 1:29 PM Subject: [newbie] epson stylus

[newbie] Test

1999-11-21 Thread Hugh
wanted to see if my server is fixed. Frontiernet has had bad mail problems since there upgrade three months ago Thanks

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, John Aldrich wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Me too.. Epic is doing the same thing.. Making the Linux client available for download instaed of including it on the CD.. I guess we cant expect miracles overnight.. At least companies are starting to recognize that

RE: [newbie] ADSL?

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, John Aldrich wrote: [...] Hmmyeah...Oh, well...Hope the gent who was asking got the info he needed. :-) John Me too

[newbie] MVP3 chipset and L-M 6.0

1999-11-21 Thread Jeremy Kersenbrock
Hello, I've been happily using L-M 6.0 on a single-boot system for a couple months. Now I'm in the process of assembling another system from spare parts and would like to configure it as triple boot setup with 2 installs of Win98 (one for games the other for everything else) and Linux Mandrake

Re: [newbie] epson stylus color 740 and laptops

1999-11-21 Thread Ty C. Mixon
I don't remember the web address where I found them, but I'm sending you some files direct to your e-mail address that work for the epson 740. I have it too. Original Message On 11/21/99, 12:29:03 PM, "Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding [newbie] epson stylus color

[newbie] Quake 3 Arena video cards

1999-11-21 Thread Lionel Barrow
Does anyone know if the demo of Quake 3 Arena that just came out works with any other cards that those based on 3Dfx I really don't wanna have to download this thing only to find out that I can't use it. Also, how can I set up my Red Hat 6.1 box to run it usinga TNT2 Ultra card

Re: [newbie] Words Of Wisdom

1999-11-21 Thread mccaffrey
Any idea when the new Microsoft-Linux is due to roll out? I'm wondering if it's being considered and to what extent. I mean, why not? Then there wouldn't be a problem w/ people dumping Windows for Linux distributions, cuz they could get it all from the same company. Hmmm, I probably

[newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread Eric Mings
If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg chips (though I would like to buy 256 if I could find an affordable source). I

Re: [newbie] Quake 3 Arena video cards

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Lionel Barrow wrote: um, line length needs a little fixeing :) Does anyone know if the demo of Quake 3 Arena that just came out works with any other cards that those based on 3Dfx I really don't wanna have to download this thing only to find out that I can't use

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread Ralph | byte |
A positive nothing is better than a negative anything. byte - Original Message - From: "James Lewis" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS) 0 is in fact an imaginary number. Try and imagine

Re: [newbie] M$ windows finally Y2K safe (joke)

1999-11-21 Thread Carsten M. Larsen
WllI did mean to include an attachment..but the mail gets lost somewhere in cyberspace...it never shows on the list. I tried twice now.sorry...it's a good one :o) C -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Mark E Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dato:

Re: [newbie] Is Mutt restricted to 80x24 Screen?

1999-11-21 Thread Peter Heckert
Steve Philp wrote: You should be able to change the size of the xterm before starting mutt and have it automatically notice the larger size. I already have tried this,no success. Maybe this is a compile time option,I didnt have the time to look to the sources. Thanks, Peter

[newbie] matrox marvel g200 tv

1999-11-21 Thread Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia
Does anyone know how to get the program pc-vcr remote to work under linux. I tried to use wine but the program just crashes. pc-vcr remote lets you watch tv on your computer if you have the card in the subject line. Any help you could offer would greatly be appreciated. Thanks, jas

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Ralph | byte | wrote: A positive nothing is better than a negative anything. byte Not really, it just depends what the numbers represent, i can think of several uses for ground wires :) - Original Message - From: "James Lewis" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread pete moss
Eric Mings wrote: If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg chips (though I would like to buy 256 if I could find an

Re: [newbie] Re:

1999-11-21 Thread Chip Wiegand
Thankyou, his last remark didn't deserve a response, why make the flame war worse than it already has gotten? Chip On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Dood, I thought i told you to beat it? So scram. Get the hell on out of here. You're clearly not interested in discussing Linux. Axalon? You

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread David van Balen
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Eric Mings wrote: If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg chips (though I would like to buy

No Subject

1999-11-21 Thread Mike J. Kesow
The truth hurts, huh Marky Boy.

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread Ty C. Mixon
Pricewatch.com is a good place to start looking. It's an advertising place with a search engine. Original Message On 11/21/99, 3:24:53 PM, Eric Mings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding [newbie] A little OT- Memory: If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory

[newbie] Keyboard Canadain-French

1999-11-21 Thread Gilles Lahaie
Help again, bis I an searching a way to find a Canadian-French keyboard definition for Linux. Is one available??? I do not want to use the French because of AZERTY, but I want to be able to use accented characters. Thanks again, bis

[newbie] Modem settings.

1999-11-21 Thread Gilles Lahaie
Help Again! My modem is ISA PnP. the Windows settings are COM 4, IRQ 11. When using Dialer and trying to interrogate the monitor, I receive message saying that modem is occupied.. which is truly false.(I use the right stty3) Is there a way to manually set the IRQ in Linux or should I

Re: [newbie] Words Of Wisdom

1999-11-21 Thread Ron Marriage
The new MS Linux will be out March 21st 2133. Or at least that was when a friend told me that hell was freezing over. BTW I understand it will be called MS Linux 2100. Ron mccaffrey wrote: Any idea when the new Microsoft-Linux is due to roll out? I'm wondering if it's being considered

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread Michael R. Batchelor
If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg chips (though I would like to buy 256 if I could find an affordable source). I

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread David P. Greenberg
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Axalon Bloodstone wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Ralph | byte | wrote: A positive nothing is better than a negative anything. byte Not really, it just depends what the numbers represent, i can think of several uses for ground wires :) --Except that ground is zero

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, David P. Greenberg wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Axalon Bloodstone wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Ralph | byte | wrote: A positive nothing is better than a negative anything. byte Not really, it just depends what the numbers represent, i can think of

Re: [newbie] Athlon Linux

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: I'm going to build a new computer and wanted to know if there is any problems with the athlon cpu and linux. I'm going to be using an Athlon 550Mhz and the FIC SD11 motherboard with PC133 Ram. Any input would help. If I can't use linux with it, I'll go with

[newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia
If aol is my isp, is there anyway for me to get on the internet through linux? If so, how? I tried using wine, but that just crashes. Thanks jas

Re: [newbie] Words Of Wisdom

1999-11-21 Thread Seth Gibson
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Seth Gibson wrote: No, probably Scott McNealy, president of Sun Microsystems. You know, Java, Jini, Solaris... Yah that's why i said sellers of 3dfx he's cool with sun. . .trust me i know the dude

Re: [newbie] Keyboard Canadain-French

1999-11-21 Thread Pierre Lucas
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Help again, bis I an searching a way to find a Canadian-French keyboard definition for Linux. Is one available??? I do not want to use the French because of AZERTY, but I want to be able to use accented characters. Thanks again, bis In KDE, (also in

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread David van Balen
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, pete moss wrote: Eric Mings wrote: If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg chips (though

Re: [newbie] A little OT- Memory

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Eric Mings wrote: If anyone has suggestions for places to find the best prices on memory upgrades that I can use for my PIII 450 linux box I would appreciate it. I am going to be using it as a server and need at least PC100 128 meg

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Ronald J. Yacketta
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Yeah, get a real ISP ;) on the other hand (I never used AOl so I am going out on a limb here) does A-O-HELL offer dialup ppp? if so then you could possibly (not sure tho) use kppp If aol is my isp, is there anyway for me to get on the internet through linux?

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Richard G. Samuels
Yes. Dump AOL and get a real ISP. AOL is not an ISP. "Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia" wrote: If aol is my isp, is there anyway for me to get on the internet through linux? If so, how? I tried using wine, but that just crashes. Thanks jas

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread Lyndon Lininger Sr.
Very true, but ground is not always zero voltage. It depends on the point of reference that you measure it against. - Original Message - From: "David P. Greenberg" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Axalon Bloodstone" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November

Re: [newbie] Totally useless fact (OS)

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Ralph wrote: A positive nothing is better than a negative anything. I'm fixin to declare a winner how 'bout y'all ?:) -- .. Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED] .

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Dan Brown
"Ronald J. Yacketta" wrote: does A-O-HELL offer dialup ppp? if so then you could possibly (not sure tho) AFAIK, AOL doesn't offer PPP (enough acronyms there?). If wine doesn't work, there's always VMware, but it'd be stretching it to say that you were online with AOL "using Linux"

Re: [newbie] Modem settings.

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Help Again! My modem is ISA PnP. the Windows settings are COM 4, IRQ 11. When using Dialer and trying to interrogate the monitor, I receive message saying that modem is occupied.. which is truly false.(I use the right stty3) Is there a way to manually

Re: [newbie] Modem settings.

1999-11-21 Thread Jim Vaughan
Gilles Lahaie wrote: Help Again! My modem is ISA PnP. the Windows settings are COM 4, IRQ 11. When using Dialer and trying to interrogate the monitor, I receive message saying that modem is occupied.. which is truly false.(I use the right stty3) Is there a way to manually set the

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Dan Brown wrote: "Ronald J. Yacketta" wrote: does A-O-HELL offer dialup ppp? if so then you could possibly (not sure tho) AFAIK, AOL doesn't offer PPP (enough acronyms there?). If wine doesn't work, there's always VMware, but it'd be stretching it to say that

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: "Ronald J. Yacketta" wrote: does A-O-HELL offer dialup ppp? if so then you could possibly (not sure tho) AFAIK, AOL doesn't offer PPP (enough acronyms there?). If wine doesn't work, there's always VMware, but it'd be stretching it to say that you

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Steve Philp wrote: Axalon Bloodstone wrote: [...] PS. i here lokigames plans to tripple their output in 2000 WooHoo! I'm just hoping for something from Loki that isn't a strategy/sim game. I'd LOVE to vote with my dollars and support Loki, but I'm just not

Re: [newbie] Quake 3 Arena video cards

1999-11-21 Thread Axalon Bloodstone
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Steve Philp wrote: Lionel Barrow wrote: Does anyone know if the demo of Quake 3 Arena that just came out works with any other cards that those based on 3Dfx I really don't wanna have to download this thing only to find out that I can't use it. Also, how

[newbie] need help

1999-11-21 Thread hugahog
Hi Gurus, I have been running LM 6.1 on my ide drive c (hdc) and have it somewhat configured enought to get online, print, etc. Today I installed another copy on a clean drive which is hdb. It boots OK but I don't have it configured as yet. My problem is now my original (hdc) won't boot, drops

RE: [newbie] Athlon Linux

1999-11-21 Thread Tom Brinkman
Besides, you can buy a Dual Celeron Mobo, and 2 500mhz cpus for less than an Athalon CPU and Mobo, and the startup message of 1000+ BogoMIPS is a thing of Beauty!!. Matt. Well we're of like mind, the only damn reason I stick with P3's (and it's maybe hype too) is the flight

Re: [newbie] aol

1999-11-21 Thread Mark E Hood
Josh...why did you give up on your Mindspring account? Just curious...i've been with them since they started..'94 or '95...and i've always been very pleased and satisfied with their performance. Especially with their news servers. i've yet to find one as fast. They really do a good job! This may

[newbie] FTP access

1999-11-21 Thread Richard G. Samuels
Any ideas why I can't access a Mandrake 6.0 server with an FTP client as a "real" user when I can as an anonymous user? The ftpaccess file is set for the default.

[newbie] remove

1999-11-21 Thread CMD923353
remove

[newbie] Epson Stylus

1999-11-21 Thread bluebottle
just bought an epson stylus color 740 printer that i would like to getworking under linux 6.1. I used printtool hit the add button. It said it found a device at lp0. I hit the select button and choose the epson one (i think it is the last one that says epson color). In that category, there is no

Re: [newbie] Words Of Wisdom

1999-11-21 Thread Seth Gibson
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: That's rather odd... At least 3dfx has been extremely good to the Linux people. True. . .from our (steve-o +myself) perception, there is another side of 3dfx. Suppose for a second that a little upstart chipmaker named nVidia had just said "Well, after the

Re: [newbie] Athlon Linux

1999-11-21 Thread hugahog
Well, Asus does have a board for the Athlon but they hide behind a tree when they advertise it :-) Jeff, Got to www.tomshardware.com to get an eye opener on the Athlon boards. I suspect the support problem is very real because of the fear of Intel cutting back the chip supply for the big selling

RE: [newbie] Built in Soundcard....

1999-11-21 Thread Ramiro López Sales
Help needed desperately! My motherboard has a built in Soundcard based on a CMI8330 chip. In Windoze98 it appears as follows: Dos mode mpu401 emmulator i/o 0310-0311 External midi mpu401 i/o 0300-0301 Joystick device i/o 0200-0207 SB16 audio device i/o 0220-022F IRQ5 DMA1 DMA5 Windows

Re: [newbie] Quake

1999-11-21 Thread Seth Gibson
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, you wrote: Bummer! :-( Guess we need to email Id and complain! :-) John I dunno actually. . .theyre reasoning wakes good sense. carmack stated that the reason that he wants to hold off on downloadable linux binaries is so that they can accurately gauge purchases of

[newbie] Mandrake 6.1 Telnet problem

1999-11-21 Thread Richard G. Samuels
What changes were made between Mandrake 6.0 and 6.1 related to the Telnet server? I installed 6.1 (from the downloaded ISO image) on a computer (P200 with 32 megs RAM, 2 gig hard drive, WD ethernet card) using the "server" choice and the machine won't accept an inbound telnet connection. The

Re: [newbie] Scanner

1999-11-21 Thread Dennis Robertson
John Aldrich wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, you wrote: Sorry, John, parallel. How's this from the SANE-mustek.5 notes: "Note that this scanner comes with its own ISA card that implements a funky parallel port (in other words the scanner is not connected to the printer parallel port.

Re: [newbie] epson stylus color 740 and laptops

1999-11-21 Thread Dennis Robertson
"Jaswinder S. Ahluwalia" wrote: I just bought an epson stylus color 740 printer that i would like to get working under linux 6.1. I used printtool hit the add button. It said it found a device at lp0. I hit the select button and choose the epson one (i think it is the last one that says