/radio7/programmes/schedules
Bill
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Francis Wood
Sent: 23 November 2010 08:57
To: NSP group
Subject: [NSP] BBC Radio bagpipes programme
BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History
On 23 Nov 2010, at 12:47, Bill wrote:
Tom Morton's on radio Scotland this pm but I don't see any reference to this
programme
Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7, not
Radio Scotland
This is what the BBC site states:
Next on:
Today, 14:30 on BBC
Thanks for all the kind and interesting responses about Fred Ord. Clearly, he
was very much liked. I wish I had met him!
Francis
On 8 Nov 2010, at 14:00, Francis Wood wrote:
An interesting set of pipes has been passed to me for restoration and
fettling. A nicely made classic 7 key set
Hello Reid,
Well this sounds like a very finely balanced decision which might not take much
to tip it in one direction or the other!
So taking a clue from your address, it's known that Audubon visited Thomas
Bewick and listened with great pleasure to his son Robert playing
Northumberland
An interesting set of pipes has been passed to me for restoration and fettling.
A nicely made classic 7 key set in lignum and ivory, stamped W. F. Ord.
That's a familiar name to me, yet I know nothing about him or his pipes. I've
promised their owner to ask for help here. Does anyone remember
On 1 Nov 2010, at 12:19, Gibbons, John wrote:
I should get the new edition too...
You should. And so should everyone else. Absolutely excellent!
Francis
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On 31 Oct 2010, at 16:13, Richard York wrote:
Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet
hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's
to play what she called the cymbal.
Hurdy gurdy has been used variously in the past to describe a
On 12 Aug 2010, at 17:27, Richard Shuttleworth wrote:
Some of us have longer chanters.
(grin)
Length isn't everything. It's what you . . . .
Hell, you can tell it's August!
Francis
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Hello Richard,
One advantage of velvet is that it provides sufficient friction to encourage a
secure hold on the bag. Many people use the Northumbrian black white plaid,
sometimes called 'shepherds' plaid' for the same reason as well as a notion of
'cultural appropriateness'. However if
: Friday, 19 March, 2010, 7:02 AM
Francis wood wrote:
Unwelcome squeaking can arise from many causes (including mice in
the
bag, though I'm not qualified to advise on a solution to that
one)
and
it takes a good amount of experience to determine what
On 9 Jul 2010, at 10:48, Francis Wood wrote:
There's Colin's reed-making book and Richard and Anita Evans's web pages:
. . . . . and of course Steve Douglass's videos on Youtube in which Colin Ross
teaches chanter reed making. It's excellent stuff!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYQ82P6GZE
On 9 Jul 2010, at 13:38, Anthony Robb wrote:
I have looked at the resources you list but have found that Mike
Nelson's methods give by far the best results.
Hello again . . . yes, you're right. I certainly should have included Mike's
pages at:
Mike Nelson’s name does not feature frequently in discussions of pipe-makers.
However, a particular instrument of his may well be the most widely appreciated
set of Northumbrian pipes in existence, heard on CD, TV and in worldwide
performances. That set is the one used by Kathryn Tickell.
Mike
On 8 Jul 2010, at 19:25, Matt Seattle wrote:
that it is in fact La Grande Chaine and that Le Grand Chien is the
mondegreen
I'd often wondered whether it was actually 'La Grande Chienne' (The Big Bitch)
but decided not to pursue this.
Perhaps the best gift in this thread so far is the word
On 8 Jul 2010, at 19:55, Matt Seattle wrote:
Thanks Francis, but the credit goes to Paul Gretton! --
Thanks Matt, and apologies, Paul!
I am delighted with this new word.
Francis
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On 27 Apr 2010, at 19:50, Julia Say wrote:
I'd also heard this one, but with the instrument as a military fife, which
had a d#
key. I think there was speculation that this is why the seventh key to be
placed on
an nsp chanter was that d#.
Interesting thought. There are very few known 6
On 19 Mar 2010, at 18:09, Julia Say wrote:
the passport control officer muttered 'Musette du Cour - Pah' and
disdainfully waved me through.
As Lady Bracknall remarked:
. . . .that reminds one of the worst excesses of the French Revolution. And
I presume you know what that unfortunate
Hi Neil,
Some good suggestions have appeared already. I'd just add:
- Prioritize the keys you intend to master rather than exercising all three
randomly. Perhaps begin with the F# followed by the D, then the E.
- Operate these with a gentle tap, 'smartly' as Colin has advised.
- These faults
to that one) and it takes a
good amount of experience to determine what is really wrong. What should an
isolated beginner do in such circumstances?
Francis
On 18 Mar 2010, at 12:55, Anthony Robb wrote:
Francis Wood wrote:
Finally, it's worth noting that squeaks are more often heard
Yes, interesting stuff and it does demonstrate what what enthusiasm and
stickability was needed not so very long ago to get anywhere with pipe-playing
and maintenance.
Who in earlier days could have imagined posting enquiries and receiving
valuable advice from international sources within an
Fame . . . .
An article by Tina Clough. Wonder if she's a relation . . . .
http://www.thelegaldeedpollservice.org.uk/page53.htm
Francis
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Or the more expensive option . . . change both to NSP1
Francis
On 28 Feb 2010, at 13:24, tim rolls BT wrote:
Money saving tip. Rather than spending hundreds, or even thousands, on a
personalised number plate for your car, simply change your name by deed poll
to the registration you already
On 19 Feb 2010, at 13:36, Richard York wrote:
This is especially true if you have the skill and the right saw to cut the
whole thing in two with a decent straight line which meets up with itself in
all the right places...
. . . . and the presence of mind to remove the pipes first.
The best and most ingenious pipes-carrying solution I ever saw was devised and
made by Jon Swayne. This consisted of a neat shoulder bag which unfolded to
become the pipes bag. As I remember, the drones and chanter were removed safely
and easily so they could be contained in the bag when on the
On 10 Feb 2010, at 10:42, tim rolls BT wrote:
However, what about the rest of my questions?
Hi Tim
Your other questions . . .
Am I right in thinking that before 1920ish and the current standardised
concert pitch at G that many instruments' G was lower anyway, which would
have led to
the length of meetings does this have a similar effect
on the frequency of those meetings?
Francis
On 10 Feb 2010, at 12:38, Barry Say wrote:
Francis Wood wrote:
Also is pitch purely dependent on tension?
The danger with such a question is that one might receive a full and
comprehensive
On 10 Feb 2010, at 13:26, Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote:
I've a clear mental image of seeing somewhere, a photograph of an old street
musician playing what looked very like a strung kipper box. He was holding
it like a fiddle.
Hello Dru and others,
This does sound extremely likely. People have
On 9 Feb 2010, at 12:24, tim rolls BT wrote:
The kipper box is a new one on me, and I think must be very local to =
Craster. I've never seen one at a session, even at Low Newton just up =
the coast, but maybe I go to the wrong sort of gig. It brings forth a =
vision of some sort of coastal
,
John
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote:
A Youtube item in two parts in memory of Mike MacDougall, Cape Breton
fiddler and composer of Memories of Father Angus MacDonell, that very fine
tune which is well known to pipers.
http
On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote:
Paul Gretton
(who just this morning booked his tickets for the Cologne Opera's Ring
next June.
Paul, could you report back on whether Siegfried ever does get his reed problem
fixed?
Auf dem dummen Rohre
gerät mir nichts. -
. . . . .
On
Great to hear from you, Jim!
Do you (or does anyone else) know of other great tunes by Mike MacDougall?
Best wishes,
Francis
On 7 Feb 2010, at 18:12, Jim Stewart wrote:
Thanks for posting this Francis. I hadn't seen it before.
Nice to see some attention paid to the music on this side of the
Boring.
On 5 Feb 2010, at 17:18, Paul Gretton wrote:
Oh... do me a favour!!! gratuitous nastiness...cruelly revolting...
purLEASE!!!. Go and play Mr Nice Guy somewhere else. (How about North
Northumberland -- wherever that is.)
Cheers,
Mr Nasty
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On 2 Feb 2010, at 16:25, cal...@aol.com wrote:
May never be done. Only one thing they could be called:
Scottish half-dones
If it were drone, when 'tis drone, then 'twer well,
It were drone quickly . . .
. . . . from the Scottish Play.
Francis
(with apologies)
To get on or off this
with a fine saw and
chisel. I did the same with my first ever set using an X-ACTO saw blade.That
was entirely successful.
( and apologies if questions of this type are not allowed)
I'm sure such questions are completely welcome here and I hope you receive
other responses.
Francis Wood
On 30
Hello Bob,
The danger in any instrument making is always paying too much attention to the
tooling at the expense of the making. It can lead to this familiar syndrome
(well, familiar to me at least!):
http://ahistoricality.blogspot.com/2005/08/thursday-verses-old-sailor.html
I know someone who
Hello Philip and others,
Reading your post again brought to mind that I had completely forgotten to
suggest a significant advantage of the inside-out bag. With the seam inside the
neck, the neck is very much less liable to constriction with all the consequent
advantages of strangulation.
I
. . . . with all the consequent advantages of strangulation.
I might possibly have meant 'disadvantages'.
Francis
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On 28 Jan 2010, at 13:16, Julia Say wrote:
Do I detect a Northumberland's most wanted column somewhere?
Something along these lines, perhaps?:
I've got a little list, I've got a little list
Of Society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed, they never would be
Mr Bewick, the ingenious wood-engraver, has put on record a fact regarding
rats nearly as mystical as any of the above. He alleges that ' the skins of
such of them as have been devoured in their holes [for they are cannibals to
a sad extent] have frequently been found curiously turned
On 28 Jan 2010, at 18:25, Dave S wrote:
the wind blows hard enough
to turn dogs inside out
Enthusiasts of the zaqq (Maltese bagpipes) should take note:
The bag was traditionally made of (preferably) dogskin, but goat- and
calfskin were also used; there are ethnographic reports that skins
Hello Richard,
Many NSP bags can be slightly rectangular in aspect and the 'corner' near the
blowpipe has the potential to annoy some players. If you find that
experimentation in managing the bag differently does not help, a good solution
would be to order a bag with the profile of that edge
On 27 Jan 2010, at 08:46, Anthony Robb wrote:
The problem I see with an inverted bag is getting the chanter stock
airtight in what amounts to a ridgy hole.
Hi Anthony,
Yes, that's right. However, the seal is made effective by gouging a very
substantial groove in the stock, into which the
On 27 Jan 2010, at 10:55, tim rolls BT wrote:
Although I have observed the necessary shape for a gentleman piper, and I am
working towards it, I would still not yet say that I require a massively long
blowpipe.
Rather sad that I find myself quoting my earlier mail (Power of Positive
On 27 Jan 2010, at 11:04, Julia Say wrote:
I wonder when and why this older and better method was discontinued.
I don't know for definite, but I wonder if it has to do with professional
saddlers,
and the introduction of machinery.
That's a very good observation.
Are there any later
It's a version of the Dunn set, drawn as Plate 6 in Cox Bryan 1975.
Looks like a very good amateur attempt to me, but the seller is honest enough
to say:
[they] will need some work setting them up so please do not bid if you can
not do this work
It would be a reasonable project to get
Hello Richard and Barry,
I agree entirely with the comments here. Comfort and the avoidance of stress
are essential for the effective use of any instrument, and consequently for
musicality.
One aspect of this puzzles me. I have studied a large number of paintings and
engravings showing pipes
This from Chris Walshaw (inventor of abc notation) on his abc blog:
There are still loads of links out there for the old versions of the abc
website address and I’m just putting up this message in the vain hope that
people might correct them.
The correct address is now, and hopefully
. . . . even an abc Facebook page!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/abcnotation/201391116338
Francis
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Thank you for posting this, Colin.
The VA's collection of musical instruments is not huge, but the quality of
every item makes this one of the world's major collections. The VA has been
from its beginnings essentially a museum of applied arts. The presence of
musical instruments, each of which
Now about all this oil stuff . . .
Olive oil, neatsfoot oil, almond oil. All these vegetable or animal sourced
substances are pretty variable depending on how and where they have been grown
and how they have been processed. They will for example have varying levels of
acidity and capability of
On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote:
Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before,
You haven't played the nose-flute, then?
Francis
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Here's how to do it . . . these are GHBs though.
http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=6832
It helps to put the fingerholes in the right places and these people have a
nifty way of doing so at 02.40
Francis
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Again, its GHB. But very appealing because it's an animation from 1916 and
silent, of course.
http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=0635
Francis
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On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote:
then applying loads of acetate to clean it up.
Hello Richard,
That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. It's pretty awful stuff
and needs to be treated with care. One source of small quantities is nail
varnish remover.
Francis
To
On 6 Jan 2010, at 12:09, tim rolls BT wrote:
Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to
developments since 1973.
Well, the Appelation pipes, then?
Francis
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Hi Ernie,
If you are playing in a church I'd suggest Northumbrian small pipes
(alternatively 'smallpipes' or 'small-pipes' . . . there are several usages).
Anything that indicates that these are not as loud as GHBs will probably be
useful in the circumstances.
Best wishes,
Francis
On 5 Jan
Well, that's what Peacock Wright called them. Seems good to me.
Francis
On 5 Jan 2010, at 15:38, inky adrian wrote:
I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS
in the old days.
Inky-adrian
--
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A very nice item yesterday on BBC Radio 4 from Morpeth Chantry Bagpipe Museum.
Congratulations to everyone who spoke or played; it was really good!
The programme ('Questions, Questions', 13.30) is available for the next 6 days
at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
On 1 Jan 2010, at 21:18, Richard York wrote:
There's also the theory that said crusaders found the Saracen bagpipes
upset their horses so brought them back as a way of bagpipe-proofing
horses - urban bagpiping myth or not?
Well, Richard, I like that speculation. However there's also
On 1 Jan 2010, at 21:18, Richard York wrote:
urban bagpiping myth or not?
As a P. S, . . . . there is an alternative theory that the term originated in
another early account of someone busking on NSPs in the Elsdon Square Shopping
Centre.
They were apparently described as Northumbrians'
On 1 Jan 2010, at 22:30, Matt Seattle wrote:
I don't suppose anyone wants to hear my theories about Holey Ha'penny?
Francis
Yes please
Hi Matt and Richard,
Yes . . . this is the tune earlier known by the title 'Speed the Clough'. It
was originally recorded at 45 rpm on an unusually
Some archive film from 1931. Beating the bounds in Morpeth. Unfortunately with
GHB.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=4756
Francis
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On 5 Dec 2009, at 13:02, Philip Gruar wrote:
The sound of musette with harpsichord, also on the same youtube page is
just a wonderful noise! -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9GBXCe1LZg
Hi Philip and all,
Well, this video is interesting but possibly not for its musical qualities. The
Yes, hugely interesting. Thanks Paul!
Of greatest interest perhaps is the lecture-demonstration on this site by Jean
Pierre van Hees, one of the best of the very few expert players. A fairly scary
example of chanter dangling (ivory and silver items) and the waving around of
that set of exposed
A short word in praise of this mail header.
Francis
On 2 Nov 2009, at 14:45, Paul Gretton wrote:
Dear Anthony,
Thank you for making that clear.
BTW, I would be very interested to hear more about life up country
among the
hill tribes. I hope they treated you with appropriate respect -
Country Dance Tunes), 1984; pg. 98
from
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/BARN_BB.htm
Also, no info, but a second generation recording of George Atkinson
playing it, amongst others
http://sounds.bl.uk/View.aspx?item=025M-C1009X0004XX-2600V0.xml#
Tim
- Original Message - From: Francis
Lovely, Anthony!
Beautiful pace and nice gently elastic rhythm.
That kind of playing contains a fine balance of movement and gravity,
whether imagined or representing the actual motion of dancers.
The playing of Joe Hutton. is another great example.
I like the added variation to Miss
Lovely posting Ian, containing many of the pathways of good will which
are fundamental in any playing heritage.
We'll look forward to your next visit to the London Pipers. It has
been a long time!
Francis
On 23 Oct 2009, at 17:35, Ian Lawther wrote:
Anthony Robb wrote:
I came into
On 21 Oct 2009, at 10:00, Anthony Robb wrote:
Is it unreasonable to suggest that there'd be no nsp if it wasn't
for
the NPS
Yes.
Francis
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Steve is correct.
Actually there have been items on the NPS-Discussion List . . . stuff
of genuine interest about pipe-making and maintenance . . . which
should rightly belong here. Things keep slopping over onto the wrong
side.
I'm wondering whether we need a completely separate GOB
about
the language we use may be helpful. Any scrutiny of the terms above
would surely suggest that we need alternatives entirely devoid of
distressing connotations.
I invite your comments.
Francis Wood
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Changing the course of language is a slow and uncertain path. Before
anyone suggests that a working party be set up to make
recommendations, let me say immediately that I do not think this would
be a good idea.
With apologies,
Francis
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On 20 Oct 2009, at 11:37, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote:
Anyone know what pijpen means in Dutch? (I do).
Oh go on . . .. In this spirit of frankness and openness, we need to
know.
Whilst we're there, I'm certain that any French speakers will advise
against a careless translation
Hello Ian,
Which key spring is failing? I ask because C# and D# springs are not
easy to fit and sometimes provide inadequate closing. Each spring
needs to continue to provide pressure when the key is at rest and very
occasionally these two springs fail to do so sufficiently. Careful
Hello John,
I think with orchestral instrument pads the main issue is one of
consistency in industrial production. Additionally, leather will
always require more attention in fitting.
The important question with any new material is not only how well it
works but how long it will work. My
a successful and positive
occasion.
Malcolm said:
I hope that this very positive atmosphere will continue to next
year's comps.
We shall continue to hope.
Francis Wood
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I do agree with John and Michael that the different purposes of the
two lists should be observed as far as possible. I also agree
wholeheartedly that nastiness is completely unacceptable under any
circumstances. Are we also saying that in objecting to individual
instances of this we are
because of degradation of the
synthetic pads. No doubt that's because there are different kinds and
the wrong one was originally used. Further thoughts, anyone?
Cheers,
Francis
On 18 Oct 2009, at 08:55, Richard Evans wrote:
Francis Wood wrote:
Hello all,
Would anyone care to speak up
Very many thanks, particularly to Colin and Richard, for kind
informative replies.
Colin, I hope you will not mind my redirecting your reply below to the
Dartmouth list where my enquiry appeared.
Francis
On 18 Oct 2009, at 17:06, rosspi...@aol.com wrote:
Well at last something that can
Hello all,
Would anyone care to speak up on behalf of synthetic key pads?
Many of the recent examples I've seen are all actual or slowly
developing disasters. I am referring to the material itself and not to
the adhesive used.
So my question is: 'are there good sorts and bad sorts'?
No
in advance for your time,
Yours sincerely
Richard Freeston
07950 936625
Anyone who is free to help that day should contact Richard directly
either on that mobile number or at:
flee...@yahoo.co.uk
Richard is offering a fee.
Francis Wood
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Excellent to have this latest collection of tunes assembled in the new
NPS Third Collection Folio!
Thanks to Julia, Colin and all others concerned.
Francis
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On 18 Sep 2009, at 16:44, Anthony Robb wrote:
Might be of interest -
[1]http://www.asaplive.com/FARNE/Learn.cfm?ccs=229cs=935
Anthony
Thanks, Anthony. Interesting indeed!
I'd not noticed Matt's 'Core Tunes' discussions on FARNE (great stuff,
Matt!), which are definitely
On 18 Sep 2009, at 14:51, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote:
It's a hornpipe, because J.L. Dunk said it was, and he wrote it;
Well, not quite . . .
The mysterious Mr. Dunk presented the tune to the NPS in 1929 with the
title 'Whin Shields on the Wall'. As it stands in the manuscript owned
Hello Richard and others,
I mostly agree. There's been a lot of communication on these lists
which has been embarrassing, tedious and even poignant without doing
anything to serve the interests of the instrument, the repertoire and
the enthusiasts who keep the whole thing alive. No doubt
Presumably that clifftop experience already mentioned by others is
what inspired the famous novel 'Fatal Fall' by Eileen Dover.
Francis
On 13 Aug 2009, at 16:25, Julia Say wrote:
On 13 Aug 2009, colin wrote:
My favourite place is a cliff
path called The Warren outside of Polperro in
Oh, for goodness' sake!
Francis
On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote:
I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on
this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the
benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk
Those are very reasonable points, Di.
I recall, and can quote, a posting by the complainant in which he
advertises a set, partly of his own making, on this list. It doesn’t
state that the sale is on behalf of anyone else so presumably he
intended to keep the money.
Nothing wrong with
Perhaps I've lost the plot here, but I'm not alone. At present
Northumbrian pipers have the advantage of two discussion lists, NPS
Discussion and Dartmouth NPS. I think we began with a clearer sense of
the difference but this has since become blurred. You can have too
much of a good thing
Thank you, Barry.
I have just signed and can confirm that 'signatures' are still
acceptable. I hope others will find it possible to follow Barry's
suggestion fairly rapidly.
Francis
On 4 Aug 2009, at 18:33, Barry Say wrote:
Thiis is one for UK residents. There is a move afoot to
Richard wrote:
In his letter Robert writes, ... I have got some nice new tunes from
Jemmy Maffin my father likes the one called What would a Lassie de we
an auld Man the best of any of them and I have jingled them up since I
came home. (sic)
I have two points on which I seek help.
Can anyone
Eric Morecombe would be proud of you, Tim!
All the right notes . . .
Francis
On 13 Jun 2009, at 12:00, tim rolls BT wrote:
..don't know if there's any relevance to the way we read music,
currently I find I have to read each dot when I see a new tune, but
this
gives me hope that maybe when
I too have a copy of the Peacocks Tunes Facsimile, 'falling apart but
treasured as Matt has said, after nearly 30 years of use. Second-hand
copies of this are hard to find and although the later NPS edition in
standard format is extremely useful, the facsimile has its own
particular
On 10 Jun 2009, at 18:04, Dave S wrote:
I'm sure it's online somewhere Francis
Well it is . . . on The FARNE site:
http://www.asaplive.com/archive/browse_by_collection.asp
Nicer to have the book though.
Wright must have printed more than the three or four surviving. Search
your attics,
Another interesting radio programme about our pipes. This one from
almost 22 years ago. There's some material also heard in the other
programme mentioned in my earlier mail. Again, it's good to be
reminded about the perspective of that time.
On 29 May 2009, at 09:09, Geoff Jones wrote:
The Secret of Jigs
A search here found it immediately:
http://www.amazon.co.uk
Francis
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Interesting stuff, Christopher! I'll look at this more carefully.
Burney's significant date of publication (1789) reminds me of another
quotation, this time from Oscar Wilde's character, Lady Bracknall:
To be born, or at any rate bred, in a hand-bag, whether it had
handles or not, seems
Thanks, Julia and Tim. This is good news.
Some further clarification would be useful. As I read the message, the
list is to discuss NPS matters, i.e. issues pertaining specifically to
the Society (NPS) rather than Northumbrian piping items (NSP). I ask
only because the acronym is so often
On 28 May 2009, at 09:26, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu
wrote:
I also think Bach, Berg and the Beatles
are pretty good.
I think they were all pretty awful pipers.
Don't know about J. S. Bach. This, though, from Dr. Johnson, in
Boswell's 'Life of . . .
On 26 May 2009, at 12:17, Paul Gretton wrote:
Francis Wood, he say: I'd like to teach the world to sing,
In perfect harmony.
I'd rather it spent some time learning proper closed fingering.
And hear them echo through the hills . . .
As long as it's not 'Rothbury Hills', which is far from
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