On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 01:31 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
e) Ubuntu kept trying to do DHCP, no matter what, in the most
braindead way possible
f) the GUI to configure networking did not work under Ubuntu - quite
simply, there was no effect!
These are down to NetworkManager, which is now
No, I think it is wrong to make such an observation.
Sun has open sourced solaris, but it assumes a broad
responsibility over open solaris, it does everything
it can to further the cause of open solaris, Why
would it host open solaris as an integral part of Sun
Tech Days or Java One ? It is
James Carlson wrote:
UNIX admin writes:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away
people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an
unexpected or
novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
Did you find
Amazingly so, yes. The user had an application that
was itself
completely valid -- treating the operating system as
a mere appliance
in service of some larger job.
What amazes me is that a such a simple, honest question can be so offensive. It
certainly had no such motive. But whatever,
Agree wholeheartedly. Why should an user have to
learn Unix in order to
use a Word Processor. Maybe that person is writing
a novel and wants to
concentrate on the characters, plot, storyline
rather than fumbling
ith ls
flags.
That's already available in OpenSolaris today, so why
Open Solaris developers have to do a lot of complex
work in order to give the user a compuer that is
plain, easy and utterly simple.
And what about users rolling up their sleeves and helping out?
Or is everything just to be delivered on a silver platter?
This message posted from
I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to have the option to use Solaris
without having to learn the details.
By the way, I agree with you. Where we (perhaps) disagree is the means to get
to the point of using
Solaris without having to learn the details.
And on further thought, I think
Open Solaris developers have to do a lot of
complex
work in order to give the user a compuer that is
plain, easy and utterly simple.
And what about users rolling up their sleeves and
helping out?
Or is everything just to be delivered on a silver
platter?
Users might help Open Solaris
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 01:58 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
Open Solaris developers have to do a lot of complex
work in order to give the user a compuer that is
plain, easy and utterly simple.
And what about users rolling up their sleeves and helping out?
Or is everything just to be delivered
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 04:43 -0700, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
Open Solaris developers have to do a lot of
complex
work in order to give the user a compuer that is
plain, easy and utterly simple.
And what about users rolling up their sleeves and
helping out?
Or is
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 01:58 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
Open Solaris developers have to do a lot of complex
work in order to give the user a compuer that is
plain, easy and utterly simple.
And what about users rolling up their sleeves and helping out?
Or is everything just to be delivered
Sometimes I wonder if any of them have ever worked in the service
industry before becoming a programmer - some of the need to realise that
'the customer pays your wage' - because they for some reason can't see
the connection between the customer and how they get paid.
But that is *completely*
Users might help Open Solaris by giving a feed back,
by telling them what they want. That would be great
help, and beyond that, if you want users to roll up
their sleeves and help out, no, that is not going to
happen. That can never happen. Yes, the user wants it
all delivered on a sliver
Why would you give up? In this task of defining what
needs to be done, it is contrary views that are
important, it is differences that are important...
We could be discussing this 'till we're all blue in the face, but that won't
get us anywhere.
Code talks.
Graphics talk.
Audio talks.
The problem is that this particular topic has been chewed over and
over, and it basically comes down to users or would-be users of
OpenSolaris *demanding* OpenSolaris deliver this, that or the other.
And there also seems to be a tendency that those who are the most
vocal in this particular
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 06:17 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
Users might help Open Solaris by giving a feed back,
by telling them what they want. That would be great
help, and beyond that, if you want users to roll up
their sleeves and help out, no, that is not going to
happen. That can never
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 14:52 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if any of them have ever worked in the service
industry before becoming a programmer - some of the need to realise that
'the customer pays your wage' - because they for some reason can't see
the connection between
Excuse me, you're making the assumption that loud-mouths like me aren't
willing to pay for Solaris - I am willing to pay for Solaris, but I'm
not willing to pay for a Solaris whose hardware support is subpar. The
day when Solaris gets up to the bar set my me will be the day I'll
purchase Solaris
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 16:27 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excuse me, you're making the assumption that loud-mouths like me aren't
willing to pay for Solaris - I am willing to pay for Solaris, but I'm
not willing to pay for a Solaris whose hardware support is subpar. The
day when Solaris
If Sun supported my webcam (bug reported), along with my wireless out of
the box on the current release of Solaris - I would purchase it straight
away. The webcam is uvc compliant but needs a firmware uploaded (the
whole information is linked on bugster) and my wireless is supported in
SXCE but
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 16:46 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If Sun supported my webcam (bug reported), along with my wireless out of
the box on the current release of Solaris - I would purchase it straight
away. The webcam is uvc compliant but needs a firmware uploaded (the
whole information
Users might help Open Solaris by giving a feed
back,
by telling them what they want. That would be
great
help, and beyond that, if you want users to roll
up
their sleeves and help out, no, that is not going
to
happen. That can never happen. Yes, the user wants
it
all delivered on
Kaiwai Gardiner writes:
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 16:27 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's not what I'm saying; I'm saying that when you bring in money,
opensolaris.org is not the appropriate venue.
But ultimately what is developed in OpenSolaris will end up in a payable
product.
Not
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 11:21 -0400, James Carlson wrote:
Kaiwai Gardiner writes:
According to:
http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6586592
It apparently has been defered.
It looks like it was deferred because it's not necessarily a video
class compliant device (meaning
Kaiwai Gardiner writes:
According to:
http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6586592
It apparently has been defered.
It looks like it was deferred because it's not necessarily a video
class compliant device (meaning nonstandard) and thus will probably
take a fair bit of work to
I think the problem is solvable, but it'd require lateral thinking.
1. I do not think that OpenSolaris team can solve that in first place. Not
because they aren't smart, but because they shouldn't be the guys handling
end-user usability issues. Kernel developers are not the guys to hire for
Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and
people who spread
FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on how it
used to be is totally
inappropriate for this list.
I have downloaded but not dissected the latest oss package. When I do an
analysis then I'll post more. The package name
Why so much negativity?
Because I work with Solaris professionals day in and day out and am forced to
witness, by the nature of my job, the horrible hacking and perversion that is
done to Solaris, especially to packaging. The company where I work went so far
to invent their own enhancements
These were the difficulties that limited sale of
computers to less than a hundred thousand units when
the world's population was 4 billion. What is the
statistics today ? GUI made it possible to get the
computer across to a quarter of the population of the
world. Improve the GUI, my maid
UNIX admin writes:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away
people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or
novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
Did you find that question offensive?
Amazingly so, yes.
James Carlson wrote:
UNIX admin writes:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away
people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or
novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
Did you find that question
Dear Ian Collins,
This isn't the place to discuss the shortcomings of Solaris 10, many of
these have been addressed in Solaris Express and other OpenSolaris based
distributions. Let the past rest and look to the future.
I have seen looked at developer editions, some of the most recent
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 01:31 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of
catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu and
can then set it's sights on a real desktop solution.
I think Mac OS/X is the only existing real
replacement for Windows for use by the
Have tried OpenSound?
Yes, I have, and I have an extremely negative opinion of it.
First, sound via OpenSound was a hit'n'miss - after some fiddling, the sound
*might* start working. This made it unreliable and frustrating to use.
Second, the software as delivered is a very, very nasty hack
UNIX admin wrote:
Second, the software as delivered is a very, very nasty hack that violates
just about every known System V standard and spec in existence.
For instance, the drivers are started by an /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back
then when I tried the software, no package had been
One could say the same thing about the Network tool
in Solaris right
now; activate/deactive don't work, for instance.
activate/deactivate? What is that???
I ended up starting a GNOME terminal in Ubuntu and doing `ifconfig` the good
ol' fashioned old-skool way. Eventually I got the
For instance, the drivers are started by an
/etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back then when I tried
the software, no package had been delivered, the
binaries were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely
unprofessional, inspite of the firm's claim that
they've done UNIX for a very long time. If
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 03:31 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
One could say the same thing about the Network tool
in Solaris right
now; activate/deactive don't work, for instance.
activate/deactivate? What is that???
Excuse me? you claim you run Solaris and yet ignore the elephant in the
room
UNIX admin wrote:
For instance, the drivers are started by an
/etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back then when I tried
the software, no package had been delivered, the
binaries were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely
unprofessional, inspite of the firm's claim that
they've done UNIX
Well, OSS worked on an failed to bugger up everything I've tried it on
over the past 10 years or so. This being OpenSolaris, I'm sure you
can
chip in and help.
Hmm, OSS in the past, I had experience problems with - since 4.0 was
released, it worked beautifully.
About the only gripe I have
I don't even know there are any GUI tools on Solaris
for networking? What would I use them for, I can
configure networking on Solaris within 15 seconds
with my eyes blindfolded and hands tied behind my
back, it's that easy.
What if, for instance, you've installed OpenSolaris on a machine
Dear Ggendel,
My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of
catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu and
can then set it's sights on a real desktop solution.
Indiana shoots up my expectations. I wouldn't just hope that Indiana will
'catch up with Linux, I would rather instigate
Gary Gendel wrote:
For example: why install Sendmail if the user only uses Thunderbird as a
mail client? .
It is these types of details that keep the system complexity up plus confound
and confuse the home user
the bulk of UNIX users ... relied upon Sendmail ... Sendmail has also
The desktop for a common user vs a corporate revolves
around plug and play,
Yes, it must be plug and play. Some technical executives I have talked to tend
to believe that Solaris is already plug and play, it is not. Ian, the DVDs
that I tried in one of the most recent releases of Nevada did
My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of catching up with Linux
distributions like Ubuntu
Is that what Indiana would aspire for ? Catch up with Ubuntu Pathetic.
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
opensolaris-discuss
The networking tool in OpenSolaris is okay
No, it is not OKAY. Try configuring Internet in Windows XP, look at the kind of
easy questions asked. Look at the help file menu that pops up in the unlikely
even that the internet fails to configure If the task is desktop, you need
to begin by
What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the current
version first.
Ian
Ian, you sound so easily irritated. And to tend to defend Sun, Solaris and Open
Solaris. You could be so defensive in a Press Meet, not in a develper forum,
you might want to hear more and more
I have used Windows before, and I have configured network there, suffice to say
in most cases the Networking tool in OpenSolaris works just fine and is just as
easy to use as its windows counterpart.
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
What if, for instance, you've installed OpenSolaris
on a machine that had a network card OpenSolaris
wasn't able to detect ? Network hasn't been
configured, you naturally continue with the
installation hoping to make it work after it boots
(by looking up a driver, etc..). It's still not
My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of
catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu
Is that what Indiana would aspire for ? Catch up with
Ubuntu Pathetic.
That certainly seems like a proper goal for the time being, to simplify the
process of installation (albeit my only
Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) writes:
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
I agree with you James, but who will solve Shiv's problems with Solaris.
Do
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the current
version first.
Ian
Ian, you sound so easily irritated.
Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and people who spread
FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on
On 8/5/07, Ian Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the
current version first.
Ian
Ian, you sound so easily irritated.
Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and people who
Brandorr wrote:
Let's face it, Ian. Solaris/OpenSolaris does not have the best track
record for usability. It is a preconception we are going to have to
counter, person by person.
I guess usability is in the eye of the beholder. From my perspective as
a developer, windows usability drives me
UNIX admin wrote:
Have tried OpenSound?
Yes, I have, and I have an extremely negative opinion of it.
First, sound via OpenSound was a hit'n'miss - after some fiddling, the sound
*might* start working. This made it unreliable and frustrating to use.
Second, the software as delivered is
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 17:31 -0400, Brandorr wrote:
On 8/5/07, Ian Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something,
check out the current version first.
Ian
My post was in a certain manner of expression. On rapid reading, ux-admin and
other readers thought that i did not understand the basics of how elaborate the
O/S is or that I did not understand the purpose for built in measures such as
the time taken to shut down the system.
The post was on
And to Open Solaris: Complexity is your business, none of my business. I, as
a user, don't care. I don't want to read. Now, give me a solaris computer,
easy.
Any operating system user needs a reading unless he has a habit of
exploring the system on his own.
Most commonly I see people
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
I agree with you James, but who will solve Shiv's problems with Solaris.
If you wish to use Solaris effectively, you will
have to do some reading.
No, the user that I have in mind doesn't care to
read.
Do you even care to understand?
No, the user doesn't care to understand. He wants it
to be easy, he wants it to work. He is that
uncooperative, and he is
On 8/4/07, Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
I agree with
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
Ian, I am more talking about Solaris 10, Version 11/06, but I have also been
exposed to more advanced developer versions. The shut down feature is not the
only difficulty that I am talking about. I am talking about identifying such
irritants for the common
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
Ian, I am more talking about Solaris 10, Version 11/06, but I have also been
exposed to more advanced developer versions. The shut down feature is not the
only difficulty that I am talking about. I am talking about identifying such
irritants for the common
We never compared Solaris with MacOS/ Windows from the desktop user
point of view,
To the powers that be,
Why not?
I assume it is the lack of resources, but then isnt this market worth
the investment?
Anil
PS : Mac OSX, now offcially a Unix, has shown that one can be adapted
for the avg Joe
They don't
really care what
their PC runs, they just want something reliable and
safe to read their
mail, pay their bills and write the occasional
letter.
I concur, for this has been my experience also.
This message posted from opensolaris.org
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away
people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or
novel way. We
actually do _want_ new users.
Did you find that question offensive?
This message posted from opensolaris.org
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 23:08 -0700, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
My post was in a certain manner of expression. On rapid reading,
ux-admin and other readers thought that i did not understand the
basics of how elaborate the O/S is or that I did not understand the
purpose for built in
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 11:22 +0200, William Pursell wrote:
On 8/4/07, Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to use
an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or
Ian, I am more talking about Solaris 10, Version 11/06, but I have
also been exposed to more advanced developer versions. The shut down
feature is not the only difficulty that I am talking about. I am
talking about identifying such irritants for the common man, who is
the Master by
Dear Ian Collins,
This isn't the place to discuss the shortcomings of Solaris 10, many of
these have been addressed in Solaris Express and other OpenSolaris based
distributions. Let the past rest and look to the future.
I have seen looked at developer editions, some of the most recent
Dear Gagadhar,
Thanks for your comments.
I was writing it as a user, was writing to reflect the attitudes of a
user. I don't like this attitude either, but this happens to be the
attitude of the common man.
The user will learn as he uses the operating system, learning would be
inevitable, it
Dear Carlsonj,
Thanks for your positive comments. On remarks such as Do you even care to
understand I am not deterred. This probably had to do with my manner of
expression, which was that of an irrational user. It is just a posture that I
adopted to emphasize greater targets for ease of use
Sun wouldn't use Gnome if you would try to position Solaris as desktop OS.
William
Dear William,
If Sun wouldn't use a GNOME, what would it use in Solaris if positioned as a
Desktop O?S ?
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
To the powers that be,
Why not?
I assume it is the lack of resources, but then isnt this market worth the
investment?
Anil
PS : Mac OSX, now offcially a Unix, has shown that one can be adapted for the
avg Joe User.
I don't think it is the lack of resources, it is just that Sun's
On 8/4/07, Kaiwai Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 11:22 +0200, William Pursell wrote:
On 8/4/07, Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you even care to understand?
I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to
On 8/4/07, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sun wouldn't use Gnome if you would try to position Solaris as desktop OS.
William
Dear William,
If Sun wouldn't use a GNOME, what would it use in Solaris if positioned as a
Desktop O?S ?
Obviously KDE is faster, sleeker,
Why would you be even selling a desktop aimed at a user with Solaris 10
11/06? why don't you want till Indiana, which is actually geared to that
market along with support infrastructure by way of telephone and
software updates.
No, I have not decided on Solaris 10 11/16. I have also
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 07:08 -0700, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
Dear Ian Collins,
This isn't the place to discuss the shortcomings of Solaris 10, many of
these have been addressed in Solaris Express and other OpenSolaris based
distributions. Let the past rest and look to the future.
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 07:29 -0700, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
To the powers that be,
Why not?
I assume it is the lack of resources, but then isnt this market
worth the investment?
Anil
PS : Mac OSX, now offcially a Unix, has shown that one can be
adapted for the avg
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 17:41 +0200, William Pursell wrote:
On 8/4/07, Kaiwai Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 11:22 +0200, William Pursell wrote:
On 8/4/07, Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you even care to understand?
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 17:43 +0200, William Pursell wrote:
On 8/4/07, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sun wouldn't use Gnome if you would try to position Solaris as desktop OS.
William
Dear William,
If Sun wouldn't use a GNOME, what would it use in Solaris if
Dear Mathew,
No, I have not decided on Solaris 10 11/16. I have
also been exposed
to the most recent developer editions. Indiana
sounds promising.
Agreed. But if you want to help Indiana - its
probably best that you
help out, it is a community project after all.
I have already
We never compared Solaris with MacOS
Why not?!
One and half years ago, when everything in Solaris/Solaris Express
(desktop-wise) was either broken, unavailable, or seemed to be broken (even the
video didn't work at one time), Solaris developers were quite defensive re
criticisms. Now, with
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 10:22 -0700, W. Wayne Liauh wrote:
We never compared Solaris with MacOS
Why not?!
One and half years ago, when everything in Solaris/Solaris Express
(desktop-wise) was either broken, unavailable, or seemed to be broken
(even the video didn't work at one time),
W. Wayne Liauh wrote:
We never compared Solaris with MacOS
Why not?!
One and half years ago, when everything in Solaris/Solaris Express
(desktop-wise) was either broken, unavailable, or seemed to be broken (even
the video didn't work at one time), Solaris developers were quite
PS : Mac OSX, now offcially a Unix, has shown that
one can be adapted
for the avg Joe User.
Actually sgi was the very first company to prove that a full-blooded,
high-performance, enterprise grade System V UNIX can be made into a multimedia,
user-friendly 3D desktop.
Just look up IRIX 6.5
isolated,
Super job of getting some attention to a thorny problem. It certainly captured
mine. Linux had lots of pains in this area and there were a few attempts over
the years at making a window manager that looked and behaved exactly like
Windows. There are a few attempts at a next-gen
Gary Gendel wrote:
For example: why install Sendmail if the user only uses Thunderbird as a mail
client? The only reason I can think of is to support things like cron when it
needs to tell something that something is amiss. To me cron shouldn't require
a main server running on the current
The desktop for a common user vs a corporate revolves around plug and play,
drop in a DVD play a home/corporate for training or a home made movie or even a
store bought one DVD movie, let alone a dvx DVD/CD is also expected wo now work
along with plug in your USB printer and it should prompt
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 13:10 -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
PS : Mac OSX, now offcially a Unix, has shown that
one can be adapted
for the avg Joe User.
Actually sgi was the very first company to prove that a full-blooded,
high-performance, enterprise grade System V UNIX can be made into a
By standalone I mean a computer that is not part of a LAN, not even on a
peer-peer connection, but one that gets on to the Internet.
I have a desktop with Sun Solaris and I have this problem. Solaris thinks that
my standalone desktop is a huge network with a thousand users or more. I need
to
It is ok for me if it allows
another person called root who I figure out is a
someone who is knowledgeable enough to get down to
the root of the computer, it is not going to be me,
It has to be you.
You are the system administrator of your own system now,
whether you wish it or not, whether
UNIX admin writes:
UNIX is not a single user system like Windows. The computing model
is different. That is what it was designed for.
As MacOS has shown, it's entirely possible to make a fundamentally
multi-user system behave quite reasonably as a single-user desktop.
I think the request to
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
Why does Solaris wait for the root user to log in to shut down my computer ?
I can log out as Shiva, but I don't see the controls to shut down.
Which distribution have you installed? Recent Solaris Express
distributions offer shutdown as an option form
If you wish to use Solaris effectively, you will have
to do some
reading. For a thing so powerful, complexity is
inherent; and while
some things can be simplified, some level of
understanding will
be required.
Agreed. It is IMNSHO truly amazing that something (Solaris) so powerful and
I think you should look at whether your 'admin' is competent, you say you are
using Solaris as a desktop and that you have to call support to log in as root
and have them shut it down...why don't you ask them to assign the permission to
do so to your user?
This message posted from
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