the best any thread on pen-l (and lbo-talk?) seems to be able to do is to clarify
differences.
Jim Devine
"'perceptual fault lines' run through apparently stable communities that appear to have
agreed on basic institutions and structures and on general governing rules.
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28981] The last of liberalism
This is my last post on this thread -- and my last of the day. Work calls. (I have also cut the message down to one part, the one in which Justin makes a false accusation. I am sorry that it's so abstract.)
I wrote:
>I don't ident
t; > supporting facts. This has been true of the Vandana Shiva thread as well as
> > the liberalism/expertise thread. Unfortunately, in the latter case the
> > rules of participation would almost exclude facts, etc. because the context
> > is preeminently philosophical. When the discu
>From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>the best any thread on pen-l (and lbo-talk?) seems to be able to do is to
>clarify differences.
Yes, clearly there's little difference between pen-l and lbo on that score
:)
Carl
_
MSN
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28996] Re: Re: Re: Re: : liberalism
Louis writes:
> I know this is an onerous burden to place on pen-l'ers, but
> you should search for ways to impart some kind of concrete information
> whenever you post.
That's good, but I like a weaker stan
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28995] Re: Re: Re: : liberalism
the best any thread on pen-l (and lbo-talk?) seems to be able to do is to clarify differences.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Henwood [mailto:[EMAIL
Michael writes:
> I would only add that in
>these debates nobody seems to learn anything from anybody else -- at
>least, you can pretty well predict what the few participants in such
>debates will write.
To be sure, most postings in most PEN-L debates appear as predictable
rehearsals of existi
Rob Schaap wrote:
> Doug Henwood wrote:
> >
> > Michael Perelman wrote:
> >
> > >Is this discussion or the elitism thread going anywhere?
>
> >Not really, but does any thread ever go anywhere?
> It's the journey, dudes, not the destination.
How about, "Is this discussion becoming or going?"
lease shut up. Why do you?
Is it something about me that sets you off?
jks
>From: Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [PEN-L:28998] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: : liberalism
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:14:48 -0700
>
>L
In much of the discussion here, we get conclusions without the
> supporting facts. This has been true of the Vandana Shiva thread as well as
> the liberalism/expertise thread. Unfortunately, in the latter case the
> rules of participation would almost exclude facts, etc. because the c
Doug Henwood wrote:
>
> Michael Perelman wrote:
>
> >Is this discussion or the elitism thread going anywhere?
>
> Not really, but does any thread ever go anywhere?
It's the journey, dudes, not the destination.
Right now, I think liberalism'd be a lovely idea. I'm sure we'd've got
there y
rete information whenever you
post. In much of the discussion here, we get conclusions without the
supporting facts. This has been true of the Vandana Shiva thread as well as
the liberalism/expertise thread. Unfortunately, in the latter case the
rules of participation would almost exclude facts,
Michael Perelman wrote:
>Is this discussion or the elitism thread going anywhere?
Not really, but does any thread ever go anywhere?
Doug
edom to X based on access to resources
>and skills), and Marxian/Hegelian real freedom (obedience to the law one
>gives to oneself, disalienation). The matter is complex,and I refer you
>tomy
>papers on exploitation...<
>
>but if freedom includes the Marxian "real" freed
Is this discussion or the elitism thread going anywhere?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 05:25:03PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote:
> Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> >Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and learn. In an
> >off-list discussion Jim D accused me of being "vague" and
> >"ambiguous" about
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28970] Re: RE: liberalism
I wrote: >>It's important to remember that the New Deal also had lots of support for businesses, too.<<
Justin: >Like I said, it saved c pitalism.<
there's a difference: individual businesses often care about nothin
Of what use is a
>concept that includes the soviets of the revolutionary period and the U.S.
>Senate today under the same classification?
>
>Doug
Well, they have this in common: they are both government institutions
staffed by representatives who are elected by the people they are supposed
to
>
>It's important to remember that the New Deal also had lots of support for
>businesses, too.
Like I said, it saved c pitalism.
>
>Further, the "progressive" -- or better, the democratic -- aspects of New
>Deal liberalism did NOT arise from "liberalism
Justin Schwartz wrote:
>Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and learn. In an
>off-list discussion Jim D accused me of being "vague" and
>"ambiguous" about liberal democracy, which I am not, but my
>conception is very minimal, and compatible with many
>implementations. Including a w
>
>We need to continue to criticize _what is_, and be aware that only as
>that criticism turns into practice under given (and now unknown)
>conditions will we have more than an inkling of what might be the
>positive results of that criticism.
>
Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and l
> "Devine, James" wrote:
>
>
> Self-government? this means profound democracy to me
I like the term "profound democracy" better than "direct democracy,"
which (both in its positive and its negative aspects) is tied to
specific social structures of the past. For that reason also it
contributes
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28960] Re: liberalism
I don't know of anyone in favor of _direct_ democracy. I thought people were arguing for delegatory democracy, in which delegates can be recalled easily, fewer government officials are immune to democratic control, and there are clear limits o
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28928] liberalism
Justin:>>>These (Manchester and New Deal liberalisms) are economic liberalisms. I'm a political liberal, like Mill and Rawls.<<<
me:>>please explain.<<
Justin:>OK. Manchester liberalism is what we now call libertar
It is interesting to look at the Jugoslav experience with
representative vs direct democracy to show some light on this
question. Direct democracy was just not feasible at the commune,
republic or national level so the delegate system was used with
elections conducted using constitutencies fr
Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> >
> >
>
> I have already responded noless dogmatically.
"No Sir, I am not dogmatic, I am deliberate."
Samuel Johnson
:-)
Carrol
>
> > > > representative govt - NO [ditto]
>
>Carrol continues:
> > >This form of democracy has never produced democracy -- and it never
> > >will.
>
> > >It's replacement will have to be worked out in practice -- not from a
> > >blueprint I or anyone else can provide at this time.
>
> >
at's unfair to Posner. His notion of what a desirable set of rights would
be is less expansive than ours, but P is well within the range of
responsible non-authoritarian conservatism that counts as supporters of a
variant of liberalism. He has a new book on democracy in manuscript that he
>As I said, almost everyone. jks
Almost everyone is right; as far as I can tell, yer man Posner is not in
favour of representative government or of "extensive civil rights and
liberties" in as much as these can't be derived from property rights.
What's your argument against his utopia of a smal
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28943] Re: Re: liberalism
>>Justin Schwartz wrote:
>>> As I said before, almost everyone here--you too--favors
> > > univ. suffrage --- Yes [Carrol's response]
> > > extensive civil rights and liberties Yes [ditto]
&g
>
>
>Justin Schwartz wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > As I said before, almost everyone here--you too--favors
>
> > univ. suffrage --- Yes
>
> > extensive civil rights and liberties Yes
>
> > representative govt - NO
>
>This form of democracy has never produced democracy -- and it never
>w
Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> >>
> As I said before, almost everyone here--you too--favors
> univ. suffrage --- Yes
> extensive civil rights and liberties Yes
> representative govt - NO
This form of democracy has never produced democracy -- and it never
will.
It's replacem
>Explain the bourgeois part.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joanna
>
Part of it is epater les socialistes, but in fact the bourgeoisie invented
liberalism, and its only historical form has been liberal democratic
capitalism, unless you count the few months of the Paris Commune (which
wasn&#
>
>Justin:>These (Manchester and New Deal liberalisms) are economic
>liberalisms. I'm a political liberal, like Mill
>and
>Rawls.<
>
>please explain.
OK. Manchester liberalism is what we now call libertarianism, favoring a
nightwatchman state and unfettered fr
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~shgape/sklar2.html
Sohrab Behdad (Economics, Denison University), "From Populism to
Economic Liberalism: The Iranian Predicament,"
<http://www.denison.edu/~behdad/Populism.pdf>.
Sohrab Behdad, "Khatami and His 'Reformist' Economic (Non-)Agenda,"
21 May 2001, <http://www
[another pen-l perennial that people are bored with?]
Cash and carry misery in Ghana
Britain is backing reforms which are deepening Africa's poverty
John Kampfner
Friday February 8, 2002
The Guardian
Tony Blair is not planning to meet Mary Agyekum while in Ghana. Perhaps he
should. Mary breaks
Martin Brown wrote
When I was in London recently I saw a play called "Feel Good," a
ruthless
satire of Blair's Labor Party. Have you seen it?. Any thoughts.
=
MK: Unfortunately no. I'd appreciate your review of it.
=
If a similar play about the Clinton Administration had appeared on
ty-ADA democrat
or a member of Hillary's right wing conspiracy.
-Original Message-
From: Michael Keaney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:16 AM
To: PEN-L (E-mail)
Subject: [PEN-L:15927] New Labour and the triumph of Cold War liberalism
Penners
A few
Penners
A few weeks ago Tony Blair presidentially appointed the chairman of the
Labour Party without acknowledging that the post already existed, and
has done for decades. The chair of the party an elected post. But such
is Mr Tony's adherence to the norms of democracy that he saw fit to
override
olled energy company."
(International Herald Tribune IHT)
BB: 'Putin is really destroying what we created in the last ten years.'
The new party will be dedicated to 'liberalism'.
Chris Burford
London
least
unproductive.
For example perhaps the privatisation of 200 companies in 1996 to
associates of the SPS was not a progressive compromise with market forces.
Resisting neo-liberalism is enormously difficult. But lessons could be
learned.
Chris Burford
London
The Nation Magazine, May 8, 2000
FREE-MARKET LIBERALISM IS NOW PROCLAIMED A UNIVERSAL MODEL FOR SUCCESS, BUT
THIS BELIEF IS BASED ON A PARTIAL AND LIMITED WORLDVIEW.
The American Ascendancy: Imposing a New World Order
by BRUCE CUMINGS
The turn of the millennium provided yet another occasion
oducing areas.
The economic restructuring ,sometimes called neo-liberalism,
consists of trade liberalization( i.e. the reduction or elimination of
import and foreign investment controls), privatization of state
enterprises, deregulation( elimination of price controls and subsidies.)
The pur
> -Original Message-
> From: Craven, Jim
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 1:15 PM
> To: Craven, Jim
> Subject: Liberalism: Classical or Neo, Same Shit
>
> From "Year 501: The Conquest Continues" by Noam Chomsky, South End Press,
> Boston, 1
NY Times Book Review, March 7, 1999
Without a Cause
An attorney bemoans the decline of liberal political passions in America.
By ROBERT B. REICH
Today's young adults are the first generation born this century to have
missed the passion of American liberalism. Previous generations witn
eable and varied production of free software. The necessary
specifications and background information have been made available,
so that people can adapt or improve the software as they see fit,
and redistribute it, with or without payment, and without any
control over this redistr
passage of the welfare reform bill signifies more than the end of
welfare as we know it; it signifies the end of a certain kind of liberalism
too. Plenty of solid liberal Democrats voted for the act in the Senate:
Russell Feingold, Bob Graham and Barbara Mikulski, who wasn't even up for
re-elec
on race per se rather than worker identity
becomes de facto another brand of "identity politics."
Barkley Rosser
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:10:04 + maxsaw
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whatever liberalism came out of FDR's time has
> now split between a quasi-social democra
Whatever liberalism came out of FDR's time has
now split between a quasi-social democratic view
which is oriented to labor and living standard
issues on one side, and a more middle-class
focus on 'the poor,' ecology, reproductive
rights, civil liberties, and at its worst,
&#x
This message is going to several lists simultaneously.
Some time ago on several lists there was a discussion
regarding how it came to be that in the US "liberal" came
to mean someone who favored government intervention in the
economy, in contrast to "classical liberali
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info.
--75BA3FF15BB1
At the signing ceremony for Ukraine s admission into the aggressive
U
Rieter and Smolz. 1993. "The Idea of German Ordoliberalism "
European Journal of the History of Economic Thought, 1: 1.
Other sources on the subject take note that part of the German context
was a much more paternalistic corporate system. In this sense, we can
compare them with the U.S. Welf
I would suggest that a national element in Foucault's
late turn to Austrian style liberalism is the nature of the
French state and society. It has long been dirigiste and
etatiste in comparison to most other societies and still
is, with one of the strongest ongoing systems of indic
ritics of Marxism, apostles of a libertarian strand of modern social
thought rooted in a defense of the free market as a citadel of individual
libertyand a bulwark against the power of the state. [footnote: anonymous
interview, 22 March 1990; cf. 'Une esthetique de l'existence, Le Mo
also produce knowledge. HW gives some
> examples from Euro left social movements. Shades of cybernetics and
> anarcho-syndicalism...
>
> > 1) German liberalism
> > by Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > --
arket economy." It's
sozialmarktwirtschaft.
Barkley Rosser
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Tavis Barr
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about the Austrian School bit. Sympathy for
> English liberalism would indeed be surprising, since it goes
I don't know anything about the Austrian School bit. Sympathy for
English liberalism would indeed be surprising, since it goes against the
grain of everything Foucault had written. As you know, he spends a lot
of time both in Discipline and Punish and in the History of Sexuali
ted by the limited ability of government to match the
knowledge of individuals, still this problem is and could be addressed
by social movements which also produce knowledge. HW gives some
examples from Euro left social movements. Shades of cybernetics and
anarcho-syndicalism...
> 1) Germ
Essential Works of Foucault 1954-1984,
> vol. 1] just out from the New Press, Foucault wrote:
>
> "...German liberalism of the second postwar period was defined, programmed,
> and even to a certain extent put into practice by men who, starting in the
> years 1928-1950
In "The Birth of Biopolitics," one of the course descriptions collected in
Ethics: Subjectivity and Truth [The Essential Works of Foucault 1954-1984,
vol. 1] just out from the New Press, Foucault wrote:
"...German liberalism of the second postwar period was defined, programmed
On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Chris Johnston wrote:
> Came through a while back...
> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:22:04 -0800
> From: D Shniad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 29 August 1996
> WHAT IS "NEO-LIBERALISM"?
> A brief definit
ect: Primer on Neo-Liberalism
29 August 1996
WHAT IS "NEO-LIBERALISM"?
A brief definition for activists
by Elizabeth Martinez and Arnoldo Garcia
"Neo-liberalism" is a set of economic policies that
have become widespread
during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is
One thing to keep in mind is that the differences between conservatism and
liberalism at different times and places in history had a deep class basis.
In Central America, liberalism in the 1890s meant free trade, an end to
clerical ownership of land, and other reforms that were associated with
> Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From: Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [PEN-L:9522] Re: neo-liberalism question
> People have adopted the term neoliberal because they're unwilling to or
> afraid of talking about capitalism. . . .
Gee,
I always thought that the word "neo-liberalism" was a (perhaps unconscious)
effort to deal with the conflicting meanings of the word "liberalism":
"liberalism" means "classical liberalism" (laissez-faire) in Europe and
most other places, while in the U.
People have adopted the term neoliberal because they're unwilling to or
afraid of talking about capitalism. I first became aware of this when I was
interviewing Mark Ritchie on my radio show. He said, "...neoliberalism - we
used to call it capitalism" (The fact that he said this is one of many
>From South Africa, same answer as Colin's in reference to etymology.
On David's query...
> How is this paen to market
>solutions different from what we have been referring to as the
>'conservative' laissez-faire perspective?
To crudely personify, I think the key difference, at least in the cont
I've had the same question as Michael. Although I've seen "neoliberal"
used in the context of World Bank/IMF policies and Latin American discussions,
"neoliberal" has also been used in the U.S. context, e.g., in an article
on privatization in the latest Dollars and Sense. How is this paen to ma
>What is the origin of the word, "neo-liberalism"? Does it refer to a
>ressurection of classical liberalism (a la Adam Smith) or a revision of
>modern liberalism (a la Keynes)?
The former; I've always assumed the word came from the Latin American
debates, in which
What is the origin of the word, "neo-liberalism"? Does it refer to a
ressurection of classical liberalism (a la Adam Smith) or a revision of
modern liberalism (a la Keynes)?
I have heard that the head of the World Bank said that his goal was to
change from a world of poor people with
29 August 1996
WHAT IS "NEO-LIBERALISM"?
A brief definition for activists
by Elizabeth Martinez and Arnoldo Garcia
"Neo-liberalism" is a set of economic policies that
have become widespread
during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is
rarely heard in the Un
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So, Greg, are you saying that John Locke, who many see as the
> founder of classical liberalism and was clearly an important
> intellectual predecessor of Adam Smith, didn't posit in the
> "state of nature" the existence of a generally-ac
e, who many see as the
founder of classical liberalism and was clearly an important
intellectual predecessor of Adam Smith, didn't posit in the
"state of nature" the existence of a generally-accepted
morality, in which "all men may be restrained from invading
others'
8
La Jornada, January 30, 1996
THE EZLN CALLS FOR INTERCONTINENTAL
GATHERING AGAINST NEO-LIBERALISM
First Declaration of La Realidad
Against Neoliberalism and For Humanity
"I have arrived, I am here present, I the singer.
Enjoy in good time, come here to present
yours
Is the reign of neo-liberalism breaking down? Two interesting articles
describing developments in Mexico and Russia:
La Jornada, January 12-13, 1996
PRI LEGISLATORS CALL FOR END TO NEOLIBERALISM
Legislators from the ruling Institutional Revolutionary
Party (PRI) presented party leader
Please pass this on, comrades. I told the Haitians that PEN-L and the
CPE are the best places to spread the word on these job openings and
popular education training consultancies. Thanks!
***Job openings for progressive economists/financial analysts***
1) Economic Advocacy Director with mass-
I am a teaching fellow this year, and for our meeting next week we are
reading an article by Clark Kerr, "Knowledge Ethics and the New Academic
Culture" (_Change_ Jan/Feb, 1994: 9-15). I remember Clark as Chancellor
at UC Berkeley and one of the guys we demonized in the sixties.
Well Clark's sti
I am a teaching fellow this year, and for our meeting next week we are
reading an article by Clark Kerr, "Knowledge Ethics and the New Academic
Culture" (_Change_ Jan/Feb, 1994: 9-15). I remember Clark as Chancellor
at UC Berkeley and one of the guys we demonized in the sixties.
Well Clark's sti
78 matches
Mail list logo
