Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 08/12/2017 13:05, Marc Zoutendijk wrote: This mapper: ... Before we get too far down the line of geographical guilt-by-association, think how much more tidying UK-based mappers will have had to do :) To be fair though, I certainly wouldn't have got around to trying to map the buildings

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

From: Tom Pfeifer mailto:t.pfei...@computer.org>> > On 07.12.2017 17:34, Marc Zoutendijk wrote: > >> Especially with regard to village_green it is striking to see how many >> mappers in the UK have used >> this tag "_against_ the original definition.” > Do you have proof that it was UK mappe

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

> From: Marc Gemis > Village green is translated literally in Dutch as gemeentegroen > (village = gemeente, green=groen), which is just any small patch of > grass, bushes, flowers, trees inside a town near a road. “near a road” is a rather useless addition as almost every object within a villag

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 2:51 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Definition drift. > > This would see the colour 'purple' redefined as 'blue'. > > I am against it. > +1, I was probably the only opposing voice in the thread of the Dutch forum. My proposal to use a landcover tag was rejecte

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 08-Dec-17 03:34 AM, Marc Zoutendijk wrote: From: Tom Pfeifer mailto:t.pfei...@computer.org>> On 05.12.2017 20:40, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:> Martin, did you see the pictures I have added to the wiki? [1] Nice pictures, but they belong onto the discussion page, as it is _not_ an 'alternative'

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

Hello On 7 December 2017 at 17:34, Marc Zoutendijk wrote: > My view (and not mine only, read the discussion) is that a wiki should > describe how a tag _is_used_ and not how it should be used. Ideally, how tags *are* used and *should* be used should be the same. For our data to be of any use, t

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 07.12.2017 17:34, Marc Zoutendijk wrote: My view (and not mine only, read the discussion) is that a wiki should describe how a tag _is_used_ and not how it should be used. In principle, but not to the extreme to use it for something different. landuse=village_green was approved by voting as

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

From: Tom Pfeifer mailto:t.pfei...@computer.org>> > On 05.12.2017 20:40, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:> Martin, did you see the pictures > I have added to the > wiki? [1] > Nice pictures, but they belong onto the discussion page, as it is _not_ an > 'alternative' use, it is > a use _against_ the ori

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

sent from a phone > On 6. Dec 2017, at 17:28, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > > Nice pictures, but they belong onto the discussion page, as it is _not_ an > 'alternative' use, it is a use _against_ the original definition. I agree with Tom. I understand you have been using landuse=village_green in yo

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 07-Dec-17 03:28 AM, Tom Pfeifer wrote: On 05.12.2017 20:40, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:> Martin, did you see the pictures I have added to the wiki? [1] Nice pictures, but they belong onto the discussion page, as it is _not_ an 'alternative' use, it is a use _against_ the original definition. Fo

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 05.12.2017 20:40, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:> Martin, did you see the pictures I have added to the wiki? [1] Nice pictures, but they belong onto the discussion page, as it is _not_ an 'alternative' use, it is a use _against_ the original definition. For me landcover=urban_green (maybe: urban_ve

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

> 1. If it is grass: tag it as grass > 2. if it is a tree: tag it as a tree > 3. if it is a hedge: tag it as a hedge > 4. if it is a park: tag it as a park > 5. if it is a flowerbed: tag it as a flowerbed > > and I now add: > > 6. if it is a garden: tag it as a garden > 4 & 6 (park & garden) are o

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

> From: Martin Koppenhoefer > > In case of mixed, I'd be interested in what is mixed. Are there trees? > Bushes? Grass? Flowers? Cactuses? > Martin, did you see the pictures I have added to the wiki? [1] What we need is a tag that describes the situations visibl

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

2017-12-05 18:46 GMT+01:00 Daniel Koć : > W dniu 05.12.2017 o 18:38, Martin Koppenhoefer pisze: > > so you want to tag the vegetation? Because both, common and village green > are mostly about (permissive) access and or usage rights, and ownership (in > my perception). > > > You talk about core de

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 05.12.2017 o 18:38, Martin Koppenhoefer pisze: so you want to tag the vegetation? Because both, common and village green are mostly about (permissive) access and or usage rights, and ownership (in my perception). You talk about core definition, but these tags are heavily misused for "u

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

2017-12-05 18:33 GMT+01:00 Daniel Koć : > W dniu 05.12.2017 o 18:23, Martin Koppenhoefer pisze: > > What areas would you want to use these tags on? grass areas between > carriageways, on crossings, etc.? Uncultivated land inside settlements > (i.e. nature conquering the area)? Flowerbeds alongside

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 05.12.2017 o 18:23, Martin Koppenhoefer pisze: What areas would you want to use these tags on? grass areas between carriageways, on crossings, etc.? Uncultivated land inside settlements (i.e. nature conquering the area)? Flowerbeds alongside the road or sidewalk? Etc. In case of mixed

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

2017-12-03 0:28 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > Mixed vegetation? Possibly better with separated values grass, trees, > shrubs??? > >> >> We already have them, but they're not always easy to separate. Having >> some general tags is very useful in such cases and doesn't force you to >> m

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 03.12.2017 o 00:28, Warin pisze: landuse=grass?!!! No. City planed 'open area' might be better? The surface is a land cover, not a land use issue. An 'open space' could be concrete and still used for recreation, eating lunch or enjoying the sun. Huumm example? Some 'town squares' are pa

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

Thank you for your considered reply. I think you make some sensible points and I think I now do mostly support your proposal. I apologise for writing only about the UK aspects because I really don't have enough knowledge about these features in other countries to comment. In the UK, these features

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 03.12.2017 o 00:15, Adam Snape pisze:  Yes, OSM is a global database, but that is not to say that country-specific feaures ought not to be explicitly tagged. OSm is - I think - a great means of recording such diversity. I don't particularly see a problem with tags being used to mean sub

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 03-Dec-17 09:55 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: W dniu 02.12.2017 o 23:12, Warin pisze: To me, "urban_green" is not a land use. I don't see "urban_green" as a good value. What use is it put to? Park, recreation, something else? The use of "green" implies a land cover .. not a good thing in a land use

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

The use of these tags within the UK seems to be relatively unproblematic because they are UK terms that people in the UK understand and recognise as distinct from things like parks, gardens and recreation grounds. These tags have taken on new meanings in other countries which some view as problemat

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 23:12, Warin pisze: To me, "urban_green" is not a land use. I don't see "urban_green" as a good value. What use is it put to? Park, recreation, something else? The use of "green" implies a land cover .. not a good thing in a land use key. I guess it's used in a city planni

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 22:05, Pierre Béland pisze: OSM-Carto is to often thought for Western Europe and only the developpers that contribute to the github project make decisions. I would not base the Tagging decisions on what the various styles are rendering. It's a systematic bias we try to get

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 03-Dec-17 08:12 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: W dniu 02.12.2017 o 21:40, Warin pisze: Mixed vegetation or vegetation of any type is a landcover, not a landuse. The use of landcover and landuse tags would help mappers and consumers separate these features correctly. So what do you think about:

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 21:40, Warin pisze: Mixed vegetation or vegetation of any type is a landcover, not a landuse. The use of landcover and landuse tags would help mappers and consumers separate these features correctly. So what do you think about: Function tag (which might represent a lot o

[Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

There were a few answers providing more infos about the reality of african countries. But too many comments not well documented.  OSM-Carto is to often thought for Western Europe and only the developpers that contribute to the github project make decisions. I would not base the Tagging decision

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 02-Dec-17 11:59 PM, Daniel Koć wrote: W dniu 02.12.2017 o 12:19, Jo pisze: a far better tag would have been: landuse=GreenAndHardToClassify_HelicoptersMightLandHere I guess landuse/landcover=urban_green would be much closer to reality for mixed vegetation - in fact, mixed_vegetation sounds

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 12:19, Jo pisze: a far better tag would have been: landuse=GreenAndHardToClassify_HelicoptersMightLandHere I guess landuse/landcover=urban_green would be much closer to reality for mixed vegetation - in fact, mixed_vegetation sounds sane too. Helicopters can land on many

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

a far better tag would have been: landuse=GreenAndHardToClassify_HelicoptersMightLandHere 2017-12-02 11:59 GMT+01:00 Daniel Koć : > W dniu 02.12.2017 o 10:39, Marc Zoutendijk pisze: > > Let’s keep it simple and stick with one tag (village_green), keep the way > is is rendered and explain the diff

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 10:39, Marc Zoutendijk pisze: Let’s keep it simple and stick with one tag (village_green), keep the way is is rendered and explain the different uses in the wiki. It sounds rather strange for me and this is not really simple. Please also note that I’m the one that added the

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

Hello all, > From: Marc Gemis mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> > > There was a long discussion on the Dutch forum awhile back [1] > I tried to convince them not to use landuse=village_green for hedges, > plants, flowers etc. in town centers. I believe the consensus was they > would still use it for

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

2017-12-01 16:50 GMT+01:00, Tom Pfeifer : > One solution would be landcover=*, being orthogonal to landuse, however that > is rejected to be > rendered in the carto/main style. it is _currently_ rejected to be rendered in osm-carto, I still encourage people to use the tag, if the main style conti

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

2017-12-01 11:14 GMT+01:00, Jean-Marc Liotier : > the purpose of the commons are > the same, even though there is no legal definition in Senegal while > there is one in Britain. what makes it require some judgement/assesment wrt to the term "rights", as the wiki says (coming from a British/Europe

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 01.12.2017 12:47, Marc Gemis wrote: There was a long discussion on the Dutch forum awhile back [1] I tried to convince them not to use landuse=village_green for hedges, plants, flowers etc. in town centers. On 01.12.2017 11:03, Simon Poole wrote: > A large number of landuse=village_green se

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

There was a long discussion on the Dutch forum awhile back [1] I tried to convince them not to use landuse=village_green for hedges, plants, flowers etc. in town centers. I believe the consensus was they would still use it for that purpose, especially, since the UK-community also does this [2] So

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 30 November 2017 at 22:45, Daniel Koć wrote: > While making some cleaning in osm-carto we have found that leisure=common > and leisure=village_green are probably not clear enough to show them any > more. They both have deep roots in British law and history and are > frequently misused, as far a

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

ion, strategy and related tools Subject: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green While making some cleaning in osm-carto we have found that leisure=common and leisure=village_green are probably not clear enough to show them any more. They both have deep roots in British

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

Strictly speaking "common land" in England and Wales is a kind of access qualifier, and doesn't imply anything about land use, surface covering or ownership. It's a bit like "public footpath", in that the rights are (to some extent) enshrined in law. So leisure=common would indeed be technically

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 01:33:16 +0100 Daniel Koć wrote: > > land over which the public has general rights of use for certain > leisure activities That is exactly how I use leisure=common in Senegal: usually a block-sized area in town, which has no dedicated purpose but to provide some urban empty spa

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

A large number of landuse=village_green seem to be due to an import in the Czech Republic, where is has been used for essentially any grassy area. Lots of the leisure=common seem to be actually be leisure=park with the exception of the HOT helicopter "landing areas".  I would suggest that maybe fix

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

W dniu 01.12.2017 o 02:19, Warin pisze: Were not 'commons' used for more than 'recreation'? I think they were used for grazing and camping too? "Historically these rights typically included the right to graze livestock, collect firewood, or cut turf. Today they include the rights to use the

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 01-Dec-17 11:33 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: (It's about landuse=village_green, not leisure=village_green, of course...) W dniu 01.12.2017 o 00:47, ajt1...@gmail.com pisze: This sounds like a severe case of the tail wagging the dog - the fact that one particular renderer might not want to render

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

(It's about landuse=village_green, not leisure=village_green, of course...) W dniu 01.12.2017 o 00:47, ajt1...@gmail.com pisze: This sounds like a severe case of the tail wagging the dog - the fact that one particular renderer might not want to render a certain tag in the future is not a reaso

Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

On 30/11/2017 22:45, Daniel Koć wrote: While making some cleaning in osm-carto we have found that leisure=common and leisure=village_green are probably not clear enough to show them any more. They both have deep roots in British law and history and are frequently misused, as far as I can tell.

[Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

While making some cleaning in osm-carto we have found that leisure=common and leisure=village_green are probably not clear enough to show them any more. They both have deep roots in British law and history and are frequently misused, as far as I can tell. Both are very popular - 57k and 86k us