On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Martin
Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 2009/9/2 Pieren :
>> 2009/9/2 Peter Körner :
>> Revert should
>> be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from
>> the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or
>> from an individual contrib
2009/9/2 Pieren :
> 2009/9/2 Peter Körner :
> Revert should
> be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from
> the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or
> from an individual contributor ([2]) edits. A new élink "revert" could
> be added at the rig
Karl,
Karl Guggisberg wrote:
> Yes, exactly, wasn't aware of this call but it turns out this would have
> been an RTFM ...
Glad it happens to other people as well ;-)
Bye
Frederik
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetma
Hi,
Yes, exactly, wasn't aware of this call but it turns out this would have
been an RTFM ...
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6#Download:_GET_.2
Fapi.2F0.6.2Fchangeset.2F.23id.2Fdownload
thanks
Karl
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede..
Revert my own and only my own changeset.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Peter Körner wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'd like to do a Brainstorming about how a Revert-Tool could look like,
> that is more open to the Community, can be used without programming
> knowledge and is able to to reverts fast.
>
> Please
2009/9/2 Frederik Ramm :
> I'm doing Iceland now because I know I can take your word for it. I have
> no idea whether or not the Irish have already begun fixing things but I
> can do Ireland as well if they want. But I really need people familiar
> with the region who tell me that they are reasona
2009/9/2 Richard Fairhurst :
> The "you" in "you have to be prepared to assess" is not Tom, it's OSMF. OSMF
> is the nearest to a community-appointed arbiter that we have. In particular,
> it's OSMF's Data Working Group:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group
Richard - yes, th
On 2 Sep 2009, at 22:35, Peter Körner wrote:
> Peter Miller schrieb:
>> On 2 Sep 2009, at 21:52, MP wrote:
Until this is possible I want to try to (or at least collect all
necessary information to) write an external tool for this.
>>> Adding "revert" to main site could attract vandals (
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Peter Körner wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'd like to do a Brainstorming about how a Revert-Tool could look like,
Having a Big Green Button that says "this changeset is trivial to
revert" would be good enough for many tasks. The most important
feature of an revert tool is to vis
Peter Miller schrieb:
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 21:52, MP wrote:
>
>>> Until this is possible I want to try to (or at least collect all
>>> necessary information to) write an external tool for this.
>> Adding "revert" to main site could attract vandals (ok, let's just
>> revert stuff) or experimentators
How whow what a great post. Thank you for that! I was nodding most of
the time while reading :)
> Yes, I would like to see a revert function available to which I could
> give a changeset to and it would revert all the changes made to the
> database within that changeset. It must flag the change
On 2 Sep 2009, at 21:52, MP wrote:
>>> be added at the right side of every changeset line. One click might
>>> report "succeed" or "conflict/failed, do it manually".
>>
>> Until this is possible I want to try to (or at least collect all
>> necessary information to) write an external tool for this
> How do you (automatically) distinguish revert from ordinary edit (or
> "almost-revert" from ordinary edit)? I think you can't at least not
> reliably (you can't rely on the commit message, etc ...)
This decision would be made in the revert-tool we talk here about. It
would not be includes as par
> > be added at the right side of every changeset line. One click might
> > report "succeed" or "conflict/failed, do it manually".
>
> Until this is possible I want to try to (or at least collect all
> necessary information to) write an external tool for this.
Adding "revert" to main site could
On 2 Sep 2009, at 20:30, Peter Körner wrote:
> Sybren A. Stüvel schrieb:
>> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 09:17:11PM +0200, Peter Körner wrote:
>>> A revert is changing a lot of things in one time, which would be
>>> much more time-consuming with e.g. josm. I see this (doing a lot of
>>> things with ju
Hi,
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> The revert.pl script doesn't have docs for this and I can't see
> anywhere in the code where it would get a list of all changesets by a
> user.
Right, sorry, my misunderstanding. It does the create/revert/close thing
for you but then of course you have one in
Hi
The first import working group meeting will be held next week
• Thursday September 10th
• 6pm UK time, 10 AM Pacific Time
Agenda
• Participant introductions
• Sort out the impo...@osmfoundation vs. impo...@openstreetmap.org
lists, and their need
• Di
> Like Frederik, I'm against voting for the same reasons.
Okay, I'll drop that voting-idea (at lease for the moment ;)
> Revert should
> be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from
> the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or
> from an individ
2009/9/2 Peter Körner :
Like Frederik, I'm against voting for the same reasons. Revert should
be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from
the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or
from an individual contributor ([2]) edits. A new élink "revert
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>>
>> So to revert them all do I just do:
>>
>> 1. perl changeset.pl create
>>
>> (& note the id changeset.pl returns)
>>
>> 2. for vandal_id in $(bzgrep RR8 iceland.osm.bz2 |perl -pe
>> 's/.*changeset="(.
On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 09:17:11PM +0200, Peter Körner wrote:
> A revert is changing a lot of things in one time, which would be
> much more time-consuming with e.g. josm. I see this (doing a lot of
> things with just a single click) as the main problem with an easy
> revert tool without some kind
Sybren A. Stüvel schrieb:
> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 09:17:11PM +0200, Peter Körner wrote:
>> A revert is changing a lot of things in one time, which would be
>> much more time-consuming with e.g. josm. I see this (doing a lot of
>> things with just a single click) as the main problem with an easy
>
Dermot McNally wrote:
> FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect
> that you don't want the final decision resting, by default, with you
> as the man with the stick. This being so, you have to be prepared
> to assess the claims of individual mappers on their merits, having
>> But this could lead to reverting as a extended form of vandalism (which
>> is much more effective!)
>
> They you can use the tool again and just revert the revert.
Hmm.. when reading this I see reverting-flamewars coming up :)
> Currently, messing things up things is easy, even without any re
2009/9/2 Sam Vekemans :
> Why not assume that the user is 10years old and just learning how to
> hack for the first time? Or learning how to make a batch file. Don't
> they teach that in basic computer programming class?
That's unintentional vandalism then. Still needs quick response to
keep the
On 02/09/2009, Peter Körner wrote:
> > I'm against voting. Voting is a way to take responsibility away from the
> > individual. I think that in most cases we should strive to have
> > individuals responsible for everything (just like with mapping - you
> > don't suggest something which the comm
On 02/09/09 19:55, Dermot McNally wrote:
> 2009/9/2 Tom Hughes:
>
>> Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the
>> decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in
>> some way, not self-appointed.
>
> FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and r
Hi,
Karl Guggisberg wrote:
>> - shows you a list of all members of the Changeset
> ... for which we would need a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567 which includes the
> primitives, if possible
> even a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567/full.
You mean /api/0.6/changeset/1234567/download?
Bye
Frederik
___
2009/9/2 Tom Hughes :
> Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the
> decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in
> some way, not self-appointed.
FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect that
you don't want the final decision res
> Well that's the problem - the best thing we have at the moment is the
> foundation and it's working groups. In this case the Data Working Group
> is the appropriate one I guess.
I think a crowdsourced approach against vandalism would scale better
than dedicated working-groups. See my Brainstor
> For the local area mappers, i would recommend the reverse approach.
> Assume that the user is 'just a newbie trying to be helpful'.
> Has anyone invited this user to a mapping party?
He'd have to responde to mail for that.
> Why not assume that the user is 10years old and just learning how to
> I'm against voting. Voting is a way to take responsibility away from the
> individual. I think that in most cases we should strive to have
> individuals responsible for everything (just like with mapping - you
> don't suggest something which the community then votes upon, you just map).
But th
+1
agreed, its like me dropping in CanVec data everywhere, and people
unaware of whats going on, might act in the offensive. And try to be
'helpful' and start drawing in more features as im copying them over.
(not knowing that the file is freely available).
I know a bit of Ireland (but not aware,
Karl Guggisberg schrieb:
>> - shows you a list of all members of the Changeset
> ... for which we would need a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567 which includes the
> primitives, if possible
> even a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567/full. Currently, editors/offline tools
> would have to screen scrap
> /browse/
Hi,
Peter Körner wrote:
> - when all conflicts are resolved generates a voting-url
I'm against voting. Voting is a way to take responsibility away from the
individual. I think that in most cases we should strive to have
individuals responsible for everything (just like with mapping - you
don'
Hi
> 1.) with great power comes great responsibility!
We'll have to distribute this responsibility to many shoulders and do it
crowdsourced.
> 2.) the number of votes should depend on the complexity (number of
> affected objects?)
that's cool..
> 3.) mailing lists might be flooded because ever
> - shows you a list of all members of the Changeset
... for which we would need a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567 which includes the
primitives, if possible
even a /api/0.6/changeset/1234567/full. Currently, editors/offline tools
would have to screen scrap
/browse/changeset/123456 which includes info
On 02/09/09 18:51, Peter Körner wrote:
> Tom Hughes schrieb:
>> On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote:
>>
>>> I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM
>>> if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks
>>> like the worst form of vandalism.
>>
>> As an admi
hi.
1.) with great power comes great responsibility!
2.) the number of votes should depend on the complexity (number of
affected objects?)
3.) mailing lists might be flooded because every single (and simple)
revert request is sent to a complete list - of course I don't know how
many reverts might
> I'd like to do a Brainstorming about how a Revert-Tool could look like,
> that is more open to the Community, can be used without programming
> knowledge and is able to to reverts fast.
I'm thinking of a process like this:
- Identify the Changeset you'd like to be reverted.
- Go to and throw
Hi
I'd like to do a Brainstorming about how a Revert-Tool could look like,
that is more open to the Community, can be used without programming
knowledge and is able to to reverts fast.
Please throw in you're ideas, thoughts, whatever you have to say. I'll
add my own Ideas in a separate mail.
Tom Hughes schrieb:
> On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote:
>
>> I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM
>> if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks
>> like the worst form of vandalism.
>
> As an admin with the technical ability to do these thing
2009/9/2 Peter Miller :
> I think we are needing to agree the protocol on the wiki for
> responding the vandalism.
Yes, this does seem to be a key part of our difficulty here. The
problem is that any random mapper could be the next person who has to
deal with vandalism, and most will be ill equip
Hi,
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> So to revert them all do I just do:
>
> 1. perl changeset.pl create
>
> (& note the id changeset.pl returns)
>
> 2. for vandal_id in $(bzgrep RR8 iceland.osm.bz2 |perl -pe
> 's/.*changeset="(.*?)".*/$1/' | sort | uniq | sort -n); do perl
> revert.pl $vandal_
I've left my HCX on in flights more than once. I get a very nice trace if
it's facing up and sitting in my hand luggage in the overhead locker. I
really must remember to turn the darn thing off when boarding a flight as I
really don't like the idea of taking it out and doing so during the flight
;-
On 2 Sep 2009, at 14:54, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Lester Caine
> wrote:
>> Bjarki Sigursveinsson wrote:
>>> I can confirm that the changes this user has made in Iceland are
>>> completely disruptive and illogical. The user has gone all around
>>> the
>>
Pieren wrote:
> The main site provides all opportunities for easy vandalism (e.g.
> the online editor)
Come come - I'm still waiting for you to pass some more details about
Cadastre over, so people can use Potlatch for something other than
vandalism!
(SCNR)
> and the community has all opportun
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Martin
Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Not everybody is able to run revert.pl like Richard suggested, that's
> why some members of the community started this thread: to ask the more
> experienced/enabled community members for help in doing so.
>
Exactly. Vandalism will increa
2009/9/2 Martin Koppenhoefer :
> 2009/9/2 Peter Miller :
>> I spoke to members of the Data Working Group recently and it seems clear to
>> me (and them) that dealing with vandalism is in general a community problem,
>> not their problem. They are mainly about dealing with those situations where
>>
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
> It does sound as if it has reached the point where NONE of his edits can
> be shown to be beneficial. So perhaps it is time simply to revert them
> all? Especially if he is unwilling to defend his actions?
Oh yes "simply".
I'm interested in ma
2009/9/2 Martin Koppenhoefer :
> 2009/9/2 Peter Miller :
>> I spoke to members of the Data Working Group recently and it seems clear to
>> me (and them) that dealing with vandalism is in general a community problem,
>> not their problem. They are mainly about dealing with those situations where
>>
2009/9/2 Peter Miller :
> I spoke to members of the Data Working Group recently and it seems clear to
> me (and them) that dealing with vandalism is in general a community problem,
> not their problem. They are mainly about dealing with those situations where
> a legal response is required such as
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Bjarki Sigursveinsson wrote:
>> I can confirm that the changes this user has made in Iceland are
>> completely disruptive and illogical. The user has gone all around the
>> country and either promoted or demoted roads in a seemingly random way
>
Peter Miller wrote:
> Banning people is a possible last-resort, but this does not deal
> with removing graffiti or spotting it in the first place which should
> be done by the community.
Absolutely.
If RR88 started messing with "my" beloved cycle routes I'd be straight in
there with revert.pl.
On 2 Sep 2009, at 13:18, Bjarki Sigursveinsson wrote:
I can confirm that the changes this user has made in Iceland are
completely disruptive and illogical. The user has gone all around
the country and either promoted or demoted roads in a seemingly
random way without any regard to the esta
Bjarki Sigursveinsson wrote:
> I can confirm that the changes this user has made in Iceland are
> completely disruptive and illogical. The user has gone all around the
> country and either promoted or demoted roads in a seemingly random way
> without any regard to the established conventions of the
Jennifer Campbell wrote:
> Tom Hughes wrote:
>> On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote:
>>
>>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>>
>>> Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing,
>>> although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does
>>> hint at the fact that
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Andy Allan wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Pieren wrote:
>
> > And yes, I'm expecting fast reactions from the admins
>
> You're a gold-level member of the OSMF, right? Y'know, the level that
> means your annual membership fee is the same cost as a full t
Tom Hughes wrote:
> On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>
>> Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing,
>> although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does
>> hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and tha
I can confirm that the changes this user has made in Iceland are completely
disruptive and illogical. The user has gone all around the country and
either promoted or demoted roads in a seemingly random way without any
regard to the established conventions of the Icelandic mapping community. I
have
2009/9/2 Richard Bullock :
> But some dual carriageway *has* been upgraded to motorway recently - August
> 28th - 294km worth - (including some sections under construction)
I know - I upgraded them. This mapper took all the bits that have not
been upgraded, upgraded them anyway, and opened up al
Liz billiau.net> writes:
>>Another person on this list mentioned that he didn't think of tagging
>>traces with the mode of transport used.
>So I drive somewhere, walk a bit to get some details, unload the bike, cycle
>some, drive home and now you think that I am going to split a trace into what
2009/9/2 Liz :
> So I drive somewhere, walk a bit to get some details, unload the bike, cycle
> some, drive home
> and now you think that I am going to split a trace into what I was doing
> where?
If we had time stamps on traces properly you wouldn't need to, we
could tell the mode of transport ba
2009/9/2 Richard Bullock :
>>I'll go over what the mapper did in Ireland, which to me is the
>>clearest case of (at least) reckless incompetence (an ill that can be
>>cured through communication, but only with two-way communication):
>>
>>* All motorway under construction marked complete. Including
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009, Ed Avis wrote:
> Another person on this list mentioned that he didn't think of tagging
> traces with the mode of transport used. There's no prompt for it when you
> upload a file, and so most people don't.
So I drive somewhere, walk a bit to get some details, unload the bike,
Andy Allan gmail.com> writes:
>>By analogy, when adding a street to OSM, most editors do not just show a
>>blank textbox and expect the user to enter key=value pairs manually.
>You need more understanding of the history of how OSM grew - the
>editors did used to just throw up blank textboxes and
>I'll go over what the mapper did in Ireland, which to me is the
>clearest case of (at least) reckless incompetence (an ill that can be
>cured through communication, but only with two-way communication):
>
>* All motorway under construction marked complete. Including adding
>amateurish (wrong way,
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