ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:
Regards,
Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc
Hey, cool. This is fun. Can we all join in?
cheers
Richard Fairhurst, MA (Cantab)
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Nic Roets wrote:
But I also don't know why you three compare the license change
to ordinary democratic processes. It's much closer to what's
been happening in the Arab States this year.
ticks off 'Godwin' on the Hyperbole Bingo card
cheers
Richard
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John Smith wrote:
Unlikely, maps were the first thing to be protected under copyright
Um, no. The first thing to be protected by copyright was an Old Irish
psalter. Is and gabais Fergus dóib daur mór ro-boí for lár ind liss assa
frénaib, etc.
cheers
Richard
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80n wrote:
The one exception is currently Potlatch which is embedded and
obviously displays map content.
Because Potlatch is embedded, you are encouraged to put any copyright
notices you wish in the embedding page. :)
cheers
Richard
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M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
Yes, but is there a point of doing this within the same changeset?
Yes, of course there is. If you're using an online editor you should save
early and save often. When the user chooses to start/finish a changeset has
no bearing on that.
cheers
Richard
--
View this
SimonPoole wrote:
there is a fair chance that either the data could be relicensed
under CC-by (which might be compatible with the ODbL)
Absolutely. The Australian government data is CC-BY already (I'm not sure
where this idea it's CC-BY-SA comes from). Negotiating compatibility with
ODbL need
John Smith wrote:
Unless you plan to enforce attribution as a minimum for produced
works
I'm not quite sure what I've done to deserve this Groundhog Day
treatment and be condemned to relive the same mailing list postings
again and again.
4.3 You must include a notice associated with the
Frederik Ramm wrote:
I must congratulate David on his decision.
[...]
If any of you, at any time, feel that they seriously wish someone
else in the project to burn in hell; if you can't sleep because
someone was wrong on the mailing list; if you're thinking of ways
to take revenge on the
Richard Mann wrote:
Now there was me thinking it was just a Potlatch problem. I'll
delete my 5 as soon as P2 has the facility (and I can find it).
You can delete a relation in P2 by selecting it in the Advanced view (which
means you'll have to have selected a member of that relation, of
Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
I don't know about forbitting orphaned relations but it
would certainly be helpful if the editors would show a big
red warning sign if somebody tries to upload an empty
relation.
No. That would be entirely disproportionate. Empty relations don't do anyone
any harm.
Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
Wouldn't it be much easier to silently delete all empty relations
when uploading the data? From a user point of view the result should
be the same and you don't have to mess around with undo.
It would certainly be easier, but I don't believe it's the Right Way To
Do It.
Toby Murray wrote:
User balrog-kun has explicitly declined the license. He ran a bot
that expanded abbreviations in TIGER street names in the western
US which means that virtually every named street west of the
Mississippi shows up as tainted in P2.
*BUT*
He has explicitly stated
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
I think it is actually written St Albans as stated above.
Indeed. In British English orthography, Saint in place and streetnames is
always written as St. (It's not such an anomaly: Mrs as an honorific is
never expanded, either.)
Mind you, British English orthography
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Oh, that's relatively benign. There are people with that name who
would try to grab attention with ℳ∡ℝℸⅈℿ or something.
Oh, we really should produce a map which renders the name High Street as
H16H 5tr33t, etc.
It could be called Open1337Map.
cheers
Richard
--
View
andrzej zaborowski wrote:
I'd say the opposite is true. If it's pronounced Saint Albans
then that is the name.
Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead. :)
Increasingly you can treat St as a valid spelling of the word saint,
rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated)
John Smith wrote:
The person that started this thread is in New Zealand...
...and started it with the comment does anyone here know what st albans
in uk is actually called then?. Robin has also mapped parts of Britain -
such as Repton, not far from where I'm sitting now.
Richard
John Smith wrote:
The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.
Not in British English, it isn't.
_Saint._ St or S. is better than St. for the abbreviation (see PERIOD IN
ABBR.); Pl. Sts or SS.
That's from
Steve Doerr wrote:
I once heard of a radio presenter who read out a request from
someone living in 'Bewry Street Edmunds'!
Eeeek.
/me goes off to add not_name=Loogabarooga
cheers
Richard
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Frederik Ramm wrote:
Which brings me back to something I mentioned earlier - I would like
to have some kind of link server where you can go and say I
want a permanent link to this OSM object, then the server says
ok, I have investigated the object you mentioned and I'd say I
make the
Gregor Horvath wrote:
OSM provides uri's to ID's which are linked to names of
physical objects. Example:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1381574156
No. It doesn't.
OSM does not provide URIs to anyone. OSM has an _editing_ API. It's here
to facilitate edits to the end product, which
Tomas Straupis wrote:
I would like such combined ways to indicate that they are
created for BOTH cyclists and walkers (especially then this
would include segregated ones).
They do indicate that. That's what the blue dots mean.
A better suggestion would be show a different rendering for those
[cc:ed to tagging@, suggest follow-ups go there]
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
+1, in Germany or Italy you will hardly find any place where a
pedestrian can't pass but a cyclist can. There will be either a
combined or segregated foot/cycleway instead of a bicycles only
cycleway. On the contrary
[apologies for posting to talk rather than osmf-talk - very bizarrely, I
appear to have been *un*subscribed from osmf-talk upon renewing my
membership. Go figure. :) For those not following, the issue is the
application of a large number of Skobbler employees to join OSMF, shortly
before the OSMF
Richard Weait wrote:
OSMF have permission to publish data as CC-By-SA, and in future
from most contributors as ODbL. OSMF have no permission to
publish data as PD at this time. TIGER PD data came from PD
TIGER data sources. If the usernames in question have a PD
source for the data
[follow-ups should be to legal-talk yadda yadda]
Russ Nelson wrote:
What about the people who didn't agree to the CT, but whose data is
in the public domain?
See
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2011-August/006608.html
et seq.
Given that LWG doesn't appear to be changing
Ed Avis wrote:
Why not do what Wikipedia did and work together with the licence authors
(in
this case Creative Commons and Open Data Commons) to provide an automatic
upgrade clause? Then nothing need be deleted.
I expressly asked this a couple of years ago:
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
90% of my mapping is in such areas - gps, josm and repeated visits
to the area are needed. Camera and laser range finder are a plus.
JOSM is absolutely not needed for GPS surveying - you can use it if you
like, but I do pretty much all my mapping in Potlatch with GPS
Tim Waters (chippy) wrote:
I also think that a voluntary opt-in review system would work - and
only really needs someone to write one, and a JOSM plugin, and a
Potlatch 2 patch.
I'll very happily patch P2, assuming the please review functionality can
be built into the core Rails site. (OSM
Gregory wrote:
How would the reviewer be selected?
Why do you need to select a reviewer?
The OWL-powered changeset listing could highlight those changesets where
review has been requested. Experienced mappers browsing the recent changes
(as experienced mappers do) would see these, and contact
John Sturdy wrote:
Could the site put up a message if the wrong version of flash
is running?
Yep, Grant is working on upgrading us to swfobject 2.x (the Flash embedding
code) which gives auto-upgrade and all sorts of wondrous stuff.
cheers
Richard
--
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Kev js1982 wrote:
Whats the best way of finding these, the only one i have seen is the
ito analysis but they dont offer zooming in :-(
OSM Inspector is very good. And hopefully Frederik will be along in a minute
to tell you how to use it from within Potlatch. :) Until then -
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
I'm writing this response for two reasons. First, because I want
you, Dimka, and the rest of the Israeli community to read it.
You're not representing your side very well based on the forums.
For reference, the thread cited is here:
Pieren wrote:
More in general, I don't like mappers adding manually tons of
'FIXME' tags because they don't know or remember or are too
lazy to check again. This a way to say 'pff, I'm tired now. So
please, the next person checking this area, finish my work in
priority. If you don't know,
Pieren wrote:
d) Add a short stub tagged highway=path
You can't tell without a fixme whether something is a stub because it's
incomplete, or because it really is like that.
Example: http://osm.org/go/eutFfSar-- . That looks very much like a stub
because bridleways don't peter out in the middle
Zsombor Szabó wrote:
This way browsing and bulk downloading users can clearly be
identified on the server side and throttled or banned if necessary.
It's good that you're making changes, but there's two misapprehensions that
need clearing up.
Firstly, our sysadmins are unpaid volunteers who
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
I go back to my central point: We're spending a lot of time
blocking people and explaining to people why they're blocked.
Let's find a way to turn this adversarial relationship into a
cooperative one. Do you have a suggestion on how to do this?
I do.
If I read you
Ilya Zverev wrote:
Hi! A month ago we said bye to Yahoo imagery due to the shutting
down of some of their services. But it is still available in both
Potlatch versions.
As Tom says, the situation with permission has not changed either way.
Yahoo have slightly extended the switch-off period
Hi all,
I'm really pleased to announce that http://cycle.travel/ now has
OSM-based cycle routing for Western Europe: France, the Netherlands,
Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Austria, Italy,
Spain, Portugal, the UK and Ireland.
You can try it here:
Maarten Deen wrote:
It's nice and fast! But it is not really apt in finding shortest or
quickest routes.
I entered my daily commute (from 51.3207,5.9888 to 51.5428,5.9827,
permalink does not work properly) and it comes with a (for me new)
route of 18.3 miles (=29.45 km) in 2:02.
If I move
Maarten Deen wrote:
So, can't I just ask shortest or quickest road? As you say, the
router has no idea about traffic levels. I mean, if a router can't
give me either shortest or quickest, then I always think I get
some random route that is not optimal in any aspect.
Nope, it doesn't and
colliar wrote:
1. How are separate drawn cycleways next to roads handled ?
It prefers cycleways to roads, so it'll usually route via the cycleways
(assuming they're properly connected).
2. Neither traffic_light/crossing nor shape turns are evaluated.
There's a routing penalty for traffic
sabas88 wrote:
it looks really nice!
Thanks! :)
One quick note, it's possible to have routes (also) in metric units?
Yep, definitely. I'm working on making it the default for Europe but, for
now, you can log in and set your user profile to prefer kilometres.
cheers
Richard
--
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I'm pleased to report that http://cycle.travel/map now defaults to kilometres
for European routes. :)
cheers
Richard
--
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Sent from the General Discussion mailing
For those who (like me) are not members of OSMF there are a couple of
interesting discussions on the osmf-talk list that you may like to
observe. Only OSMF members can post to osmf-talk, but anyone can read.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-September/date.html
Richard
[this was originally posted to osmf-talk; I'm not a member of OSMF so
can't reply to it there. I'm also breaking my self-imposed discipline of
not posting to the talk@ list for this, but I figure it's important]
Sarah Hoffman wrote:
while checking the candidate list for the upcoming board
Simon Poole wrote:
Kathleen Danielson wrote:
That said, I would like to voice my support for Richard's
suggestion that the full board step down.
It simply is a very unrealistic option given that it would require a
mechanism that doesn't exist to force all board members to resign.
Absolutely
This one's going to be long, but it might be worth it, I hope.
I've been involved in OSM for almost ten years now. 22nd November is my
OSM birthday:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2004-November/000111.html
Message 000111. Right now talk@ is up to 71235, never mind the
On 11/11/2014 20:57, Clifford Snow wrote:
Suggestion - set the tile background to transparent so we can see
underlying image in JOSM.
I can certainly have a look at doing that. Do you/anyone know whether
transparent tiles would still be usable in iD?
cheers
Richard
I am a little concerned that the (already overwhelming) task of fixing
OSMF, which has been entrusted to a board of seven good people, is being
made still harder by people in mysterious unelected roles offering their
advice.
I know of at least two: Mike Collinson is chair of the (AIUI
Michael Collinson wrote:
For transparency, I have attended about one year of board meetings now I
think (it is minuted). I took the approach that I should simply listen
and pick up items that the MT could handle. I was however encouraged to
take a more participatory role provided that I do not
[Apologies to talk@ readers for this follow-up to a post on osmf-talk@.
I'm not an OSMF member and therefore can't post to osmf-talk@, but as
I'm being spoken about over there, I'd appreciate the opportunity to
respond.]
Steve Coast wrote:
See, there was no group that mobbed Richard out the
Dave F. wrote:
I still use P2, I've tried the others a few times, but keep
returning. Is it still being developed? I've noticed a 'tasks'
button has been added.
Yes, it is, albeit sporadically. Now it's free of the pressure of being the
default editor, it's able to gain a few more unusual
brycenesbitt wrote:
Are there any additional comments on the issue of importing (actually
synchronizing) 500 bicycle repair stations?
With this import OSM would become the most comprehensive database of
repair station locations.
Where the location is good, it would be great to have these in
Dave F. wrote:
On Richard F. cycle.travel routing. How do reset start again?
There's a Close route button at the top of the turn-by-turn directions -
click that and it'll clear the route.
cheers
Richard
--
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Andy Mabbett wrote:
In the absence of blatant vandalism or base abuse, I would
have expected, first, a recent, clear and unequivocal warning on
the user's talk page
No. Please remember that the primary means of discussion and consensus in
OSM is mailing lists, even when the subject is the
Ilya Zverev wrote:
Who banned Xxzme in wiki a while ago? Please do it again.
Seconded.
Richard
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http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Please-ban-Xxzme-in-wiki-tp5843984p5843986.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
In just over a week's time it's State of the Map US (yay). I'm giving a
talk which will touch on why people contribute to OSM - and how we can
get more!
I'd love to hear your story as to what got you started.
I know there's some good Serious Research on the topic, but for now I'm
more
Jo wrote:
even more sorry you stopped being the lead developer of iD
For the record: the mantle of lead developer of iD passed to Tom and
John immediately after SOTM-US Portland because it was wonderfully clear
that their JavaScript skills are pretty much on a different planet to
mine, and I
Frederik Ramm wrote:
What everybody can see is a clearing or change in the surface
of something. That's fine to map.
Inferring from that that there must have been a railway there is a
step too far. We are mappers, not trappers.
Ok, let's try an experiment.
Go to
moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
Remember that interpreting osm data is actually a lot of work.
Very few people have the manpower to verify what railroad=
dismantled actually mean to decide wheter they want to use
or filter out that data. Most of them will just match railway=*,
plus perhaps some
Malcolm Herring wrote:
> The copyright page on the Wiki seems to only refer to tiles
The canonical copyright pages for OSM are
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License
not whatever Xxzme might have mauled on wiki.osm.org.
Richard
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View this
Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> Today, v2.36.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has
> been released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org
> servers. It might still take a couple of days before all tiles
> show the new rendering.
Congratulations to all involved - real dedication to the cause
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
Therefore I will delete any object that no longer exists or never
existed (after communication with mapper or other method to
verify whatever I am mistaken, with exception of highway=
proposed).
OSM would be a better, and nicer, place if people went out and did
Ilya Zverev wrote (re: Xxzme):
> For me, it's clear that the ban did not work, and nothing has changed.
Quoting Xxzme on the wiki:
"What is clear to me is that you make ~0 improments to Main namespace
"And constantly repeating yourself with magical "purpose" of Beginners'
guide which was clearly
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> But what if I have said the same thing five times already and the
> others STILL don't see that I'm RIGHT
Please try not to bring OSMF board meeting conventions onto the talk list.
cheers
Richard
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View this message in context:
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> Now it is done with railways and may be stopped. But if
> completely dismantled railways are not deleted from OSM
> what would stop somebody interested in mapping completely
> destroyed buildings, canals etc?
You're absolutely right.
We should also stop mapping bus
moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> The line is going through multiple buildings and a wide low
> wall. That's as unambiguous as it gets. The lack of any
> other sign on the grass and highway areas are an additional
> good hint. If you're mapping a railroad here, you're mapping
> the past.
Haha. I
Clifford Snow wrote:
> I want to make sure I cover the salient points that would interest
> cyclists. If you know of any websites that use bike routes or
> otherwise make use of OSM data that would really be great.
Where do I start...? :)
Cycling and OSM have long been bedfellows. In Europe
Ian Dees wrote:
> As someone currently planning a more community-focused SOTM US, I'd
> be interested in hearing what sort of changes you would propose to
> the existing SOTM structure.
It's a great question to ask; and I realise this may sound a little
contrarian, but I actually find myself
John Goodman wrote:
> And if its searching facility is braindead
Please avoid being gratuitously offensive by describing something that lots
of volunteers have put countless hours into as "braindead".
Thank you.
Richard
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Stefan Keller wrote:
> OSM2VectorTiles is a project simplifying installation of free
> world maps maintained by OpenStreetMap community.
Looks interesting - nice work!
If I may just pick you up on one statement in the thesis:
"There also exists a method[17] that circumvents using a database
Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> Is it just me or is the OSM's built-in potlatch editor not currently
> working?
Should be fixed now. TomH identified that a Passenger upgrade caused
requests to break, though exactly why isn't yet clear...
Richard
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Daniel Koć wrote:
> BTW: who is the maintainer of switch2osm site? I was not able to
> find any contact informations there.
I am, though a few other people also have admin/editing rights.
Richard
--
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Daniel Koć wrote:
> Oh, "Find Out More" page has some contact informations, but I
> guess "Contact" or "About us" would be easier to find.
The page recommends that you use IRC in the first instance, and also
suggests help.osm.org for asking questions. I really do not want to get into
providing
Dave F. wrote:
> Is there an easy way to transfer the newer data into the
> original relation?
In P2:
- Select a way belonging to both relations, adding them if needs be
- In the \/ menu next to the new relation (Advanced panel), choose 'Select
all members'
- In the \/ menu next to the original
Christoph Hormann wrote:
> And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
>
> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings
> and tag them landuse=residential"
>
> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely
> to map reality, what's on the ground.
Blake Girardot wrote:
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:
Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we
avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people
by their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it,
molesworth,
Andreas Vilén wrote:
> Post codes are also a little dubious, since those aren't open
> data in Sweden and can normally only be figured out through
> local knowledge
Perish the thought that people might add their local knowledge to OSM. I
thought it was all imports, armchairing and tagwanking
Jeff Medaugh wrote:
> MapQuest is moving to a 100% cloud solution - the new
> infrastructure dictates that all tile access will require a key.
> Details on how to get keys, SDKs and general migration
> information is below:
Thanks for posting this.
Will there still be specific 'MapQuest Open'
Hi all,
Usage of the newb...@openstreetmap.org mailing list, set up in 2007 to
provide help to new users, has dwindled to almost nothing. There were no
posts in September, October, November, or December.
Generally we now have better places to provide help to new users -
principally
David Marchal wrote:
> What is the applicability of the Wiki content?
Three long-standing principles of OSM:
1. consensus is important
2. precedent is important
3. patches beat "should"
The first means that you can't order the community to do things based on ten
people voting on the
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> I am not claiming that there are quick & easy ways to reduce
> complexity - but complexity has some real negative consequences.
The cycleway tagging mess has come about because a bunch of wikifiddlers
keep inventing ever more spurious and unnecessary tags -
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our
> maps might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want
> them to fix it...
I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
differences:
Éric Gillet wrote:
> However I'd believe that there is (in Europe for the example's sake) a
> very low number of restaurant really named McDonalds and not part
> of the franchise. So if the changeset correct 300 restaurants but 2
> are "damaged" by the automated edit, would the edit be bad
Éric Gillet wrote:
> That would be slightly faster to execute than the first approach I was
> suggesting, but then how would you prove that you checked every
> and all features ?
Well, the best way to prove that you checked everything is not to fuck
things up, which of course you won't, because
Victor Grousset wrote:
> On 14/07/2016 17:35, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > The person proposing the automated edit isn't the best placed
> > person to weigh that up: they're already convinced of the desirability
> > of the edit (which is why they're proposing it).
>
>
Éric Gillet wrote:
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> - Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
The Code of Conduct is a document enforced and revised by DWG, with the
intention of codifying long-standing principles in OSM (principally,
"respect the
Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Here I thought I was asking a simple question.
On an OSM mailing list? You must be new round here.
(More seriously, there were rumours of an event in Italy, but I've not heard
anything concrete.)
cheers
Richard
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Joost Schouppe wrote:
> Well the annoyance with spam does pop up often enough. The usual
> answer to things like this in the OSM ecosystem is "why don't you
> do it yourself". I've not seen this answer for spam. Is there no easy
> way for people to become spam-police if they like to do so?
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> Happy Meal". for example).
Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by
Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> Well, looking at the map, it looks like each and every parcel of
> land and section of field has a locality tag associated with it.
It's very common in the UK, too, for uninhabited sections of woodland and
hillside to have placenames.
> it still seems a bit odd - and
Michał Brzozowski wrote:
> The rules for routing appear to be mostly global for popular
> routers. There is very little magical sauce, if any.
I wouldn't say that. Obviously the demo instances for OSRM and GraphHopper
use their own vanilla profiles, but other routers very often have customised
Mikel Maron wrote:
> Reverts should be held to the same standard as imports (outside
> of obviously urgent problems).
Where a revert of an import (or other automated edit) is done by DWG because
an import did not follow the rules, reverting that import just goes back to
the status quo ante.
Florian Schäfer wrote:
> I'm not an expert on borders and how disputed borders are handled
> in OSM, so I forward this to the talk-list, because this probably
> needs more discussion.
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf
Richard
--
View this
Roland Olbricht wrote:
> This makes clear that neither the file name extension "osm" is
> jeoparday. Or you do not want to discourage people from using
> "osmium", "osmosis" or a range of other software.
I see your point there, but conversely I am really uncomfortable with the
OsmAnd situation.
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> saying "your privacy goes down the drain if you do anything
> online anyway, so why should we at OSM take steps to protect
> it more".
>
> Perhaps: because we can, and because it's a good thing?
...or perhaps it isn't quite that black and white.
OSM, at its best, is a
Hi all,
I've just added support for a couple more tags to cycle.travel's
directions and thought it worth mentioning here - everyone likes seeing
their mapping being used. :)
First up, cycle.travel now includes 'knooppunten' (cycle node networks)
in turn-by-turn directions. These are found
Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> For example, RU community wants to convert amenity=sanatorium
> -> leisure=resort + resort=sanatorium. Clicking on a dot shows a
> popup with the suggested edit. If you think the edit is correct, simply
> click Save.
I've been a bit loth to get involved with this one
Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Also, what about the location where data is combined? E.g. if wikidata
> is in public domain, and US courts agree with that statement, anyone
> in the US can combine it with OSM data? What about UK? In any
> case, i suspect nothing we decide has any merit until the
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
> this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
But that needs to be a separate project really, rather than a facet of
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