Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/11/2020 12:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Nice authoritarianism you’ve got there. > On Jul 11, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Eric Broch wrote: > > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. > They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to > overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Maybe Apache just need some more figures... Is there any black lady/gentleman in this list who feels ofended for those terms? please rise you hand... LET's VOTE... Would you like to have Apache Spamassassin change "WhiteList" and "BlackList" terms due to racism sensibilities? | | | | | |

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers > do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist > tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: > 'Rules for Radicals'). >

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: I do not demand 50% of my peers be women. I simply demand that 100% of my peers carry their load. For THAT I am a racist fascist. Snarf! -- John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/ jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Friday 10 July 2020 at 14:37:09, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > How long until we have to rename electrical and mechanical > connectors? Shortly after the astrophysicists have found an inoffensive term for black holes, various military agencies have stopped running black ops, all the

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for Radicals'). One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

LOL!!! On 7/11/2020 2:24 AM, jdow wrote: On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/11/20 1:32 PM, Antony Stone wrote: On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: Concentrating on the technical issues below ... I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'.

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: > Concentrating on the technical issues below ... > > I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, > myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. > > That's the point I was attempting

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

diversity. Judy. From: Bill Cole Sent: 10 July 2020 21:21 To: users@spamassassin.apache.org Subject: Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200711 00:40:20, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote: "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 23:51:19, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote: "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. Reminds me of left-handed

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

John Hardin writes: > On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: > >> And every ancillary script sysadmins have written has to be rewritten. >> Every user_prefs has to be rewritten. You are forcing a boatload of >> hurt on innocent people. This is purely lifting a leg and peeing on >> something to mark it

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

"Kevin A. McGrail" writes: > A common question we are receiving is what about using this terminology > instead, for example allow/deny. > > The use of welcomelist and blocklist has evolved from discussions since > April and work done creating patches.  We found that using these names > of

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

"Bill Cole" writes: > On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin wrote: > >> $0.02 from a woman of colour ... >> >> I personally find stuff like this just a little bit patronising ... >> more of a matter of kicking the real problem into the weeds than >> actually doing anything practical to 'fix'

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

sha...@shanew.net writes: > On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, Axb wrote: > >> On 7/10/20 8:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote: >>> The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting >>> contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk >>> of mislabelling a pattern of letters

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

I voted aginst it, loudly. On 7/11/20 4:35 AM, Noel Butler wrote: Who is "we" Name the people who decided this pathetic communist dictatorship change and who want to enforce this upon members of 160 odd other countries just because theirs is fucked up? I want names I want to see the voting,

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

huh? I dont see that subject in the thread, I guess thats what you mean, I dunno, you're not talking to an american On 11/07/2020 12:38, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Read Red Scare hours on the timeline tonight... > > On Jul 10, 2020, at 10:35 PM, Noel Butler wrote: > > Who is "we" > > Name

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Read Red Scare hours on the timeline tonight... > On Jul 10, 2020, at 10:35 PM, Noel Butler wrote: > > Who is "we" > > Name the people who decided this pathetic communist dictatorship change and > who want to enforce this upon members of 160 odd other countries just because > theirs is

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Who is "we" Name the people who decided this pathetic communist dictatorship change and who want to enforce this upon members of 160 odd other countries just because theirs is fucked up? I want names I want to see the voting, come on lets be transparent, who are they, and who are hte ones

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 2020-07-10 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: > > I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by > the use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've > never actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist? > What black people are asking for is

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the use of these words. I've

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

I am having a hard time reconciling the statements below. On 10 Jul 2020, at 13:21, Bill Cole wrote: We have no way of knowing how many people have thought less of SA because of terminology or whether any of those people might have otherwise become involved enough in the project to be

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Stop biting my nose. I’m not forcing anything, I just suggested you take your nonsense off-list somewhere. > On Jul 10, 2020, at 7:47 PM, jdow wrote: > > 1) You would not know fascism if it jumped up and bit your nose off. > 2) You try to force your nonsense on me and I'll force my nonsense

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

1) You would not know fascism if it jumped up and bit your nose off. 2) You try to force your nonsense on me and I'll force my nonsense on you. Square? {^_^} On 20200710 15:26:49, Charles Sprickman wrote: What makes you think anyone on the list wants to hear your complaints and your snide

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 15:01 -0700, jdow wrote: > On 20200710 13:43:21, Bill Cole wrote: > > On 10 Jul 2020, at 8:37, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > > > > > I do agree that accept works better than welcome here. > > > > There's a practical issue in that: we have the WLBLEval plugin that > > has

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

What makes you think anyone on the list wants to hear your complaints and your snide crypto-fascism? Take it private or open an issue in the bug tracker. > On Jul 10, 2020, at 6:01 PM, jdow wrote: > > And every ancillary script sysadmins have written has to be rewritten. Every > user_prefs

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: And every ancillary script sysadmins have written has to be rewritten. Every user_prefs has to be rewritten. You are forcing a boatload of hurt on innocent people. This is purely lifting a leg and peeing on something to mark it as YOURS. Isn't that rather

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

I can just see the vocabulary Nazis forcing the world to change out red lights and yellow lights for more inoffensively named colors as they go out and rip down these statues to hierarchical control systems. These word Nazis CANNOT be appeased with simple changes in terminology. Their goal is

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 13:58:32, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 3:38, Olivier wrote: Axb writes: the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. Seriously.. you have more important issues... While thet change in names will not fix any societal issue, No one has suggested that it will or

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 13:43:21, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 8:37, Mauricio Tavares wrote:   I do agree that accept works better than welcome here. There's a practical issue in that: we have the WLBLEval plugin that has cemented the initial. FWIW, the use of "blocklist" in spamfighting

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 12:34:03, @lbutlr wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 02:06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: thought guys can also mean women, at least I've seen it being used that way… Yes, guy/s is gender neutral, but many women do not agree. Far more use it themselves. You males have lost control of

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 12:34:03, @lbutlr wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 02:06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: thought guys can also mean women, at least I've seen it being used that way… Yes, guy/s is gender neutral, but many women do not agree. Far more use it themselves. You males have lost control of

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

In other words "I am going to pee on the product and if you don't like it go pound sand." Well, I am pounding sand in your general direction, loudly. {^_^} On 20200710 13:21:41, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin wrote: $0.02 from a woman of colour ... I personally

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

And every ancillary script sysadmins have written has to be rewritten. Every user_prefs has to be rewritten. You are forcing a boatload of hurt on innocent people. This is purely lifting a leg and peeing on something to mark it as YOURS. Isn't that rather selfish? {^_^} On 20200710 13:27:45,

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

No one has answered my question. What about the the word "Apache"?  Are their 'redlist[s]' out there who'll be offended by this name? For all the talk about giving SA more appropriate and descriptive names the motivation for changing them (whitelist, blacklist) was ultimately to be

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

What I am seeing here, if I choose to think on their terms, is a small collection of males asserting dominance by lifting their legs and demanding we accept their peeing on a working product. If It Is Not Broke Don't Fix It. This is the experience of a 76 year life span giving you advice. I've

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: And if you REALLY want a hair raising read dig around for a copy of William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Then tell me there is no resemblance at all between that and current events. I *so* do not want to read that book again... -- John

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, sha...@shanew.net wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, Axb wrote: On 7/10/20 8:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote: The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk of mislabelling a pattern of

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 11:52:11, Ralph Seichter wrote: * Eric Broch: As stated earlier by another very aware poster, this is nothing less than, "Newspeak." That was actually me, in message <87lfjr78zu@wedjat.horus-it.com>. However, you did not quote the first part of the sentence, which I

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 11:31:57, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 3:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote: Whatever you do under the hood, make sure it does not affect external behaviour. On your motivation, bear in mind that *lists here contain computer addresses, not people, Which is an argument FOR

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Um, you are a little information deprived. There are several videos out there of BLM organizers stating how proud they are of being well trained Marxist agitators. Ditto for Antifa and similar organizations. Wake up and smell the manure lest you find yourself swimming in it. And if you REALLY

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 05:16:15, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 10:36 +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: On 10.07.20 08:50, Axb wrote: the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. Seriously.. you have more important issues... while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 3:38, Olivier wrote: Axb writes: the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. Seriously.. you have more important issues... While thet change in names will not fix any societal issue, No one has suggested that it will or can. for a product like SpamAssassin

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Why not concentrate on making Spamassassin a better filter instead of worrying about offending anyone. Have a look at DSPAM. It's much better than Spamassassin's probabilistic Bayes filter, but DSPAM's weakness is in its inability to whitelist. On 7/10/2020 2:27 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 8:37, Mauricio Tavares wrote: I do agree that accept works better than welcome here. There's a practical issue in that: we have the WLBLEval plugin that has cemented the initial. FWIW, the use of "blocklist" in spamfighting goes back to the '90s, when the primary

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Hello all, A common question we are receiving is what about using this terminology instead, for example allow/deny. The use of welcomelist and blocklist has evolved from discussions since April and work done creating patches.  We found that using these names of welcomelist and blocklist are non

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin wrote: $0.02 from a woman of colour ... I personally find stuff like this just a little bit patronising ... more of a matter of kicking the real problem into the weeds than actually doing anything practical to 'fix' it. Well, in the context of the

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 02:06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: > thought guys can also mean women, at least I've seen it being used that > way… Yes, guy/s is gender neutral, but many women do not agree. -- Train Station: where the train stops. Work Station: …

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 02:02, jdow wrote: > The problem is that at least one woman (me) reading this list doesn't give a > tinker's damn. The intent is communicated and that's sufficient to satisfy my > sensibilities. Seems I grew up and became an adult when I wasn't looking. > Things like this

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 01:38, Olivier wrote: > Axb writes: > >> the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. >> Seriously.. you have more important issues... > > While thet change in names will not fix any societal issue, for a > product like SpamAssassin that relies heavily on plugins

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, Axb wrote: On 7/10/20 8:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote: The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk of mislabelling a pattern of letters or words as 'spammy' when in fact it is

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/10/20 8:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote: The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk of mislabelling a pattern of letters or words as 'spammy' when in fact it is entirely normal in a cultural context

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

jdow skrev den 2020-07-10 08:42: Be sure to purge every instance of "fork" in the code because it sounds too close to the other F..K word. Get the fork out of there. {O,o} i.e are you guys being just a little stupid here? +1000 :-) hope its not a question anymore

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

* Eric Broch: > As stated earlier by another very aware poster, this is nothing less > than, "Newspeak." That was actually me, in message <87lfjr78zu@wedjat.horus-it.com>. However, you did not quote the first part of the sentence, which I consider just as important: >> Racists are assholes,

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10 Jul 2020, at 3:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote: Whatever you do under the hood, make sure it does not affect external behaviour. On your motivation, bear in mind that *lists here contain computer addresses, not people, Which is an argument FOR changing our terminology. so the reference

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

etc!!! -Original Message- Subject: Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave So! What's next, changing the "Apache" name? Wake up!

RE: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave So! What's next, changing the "Apache" name? Wake up!

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

So! What's next, changing the "Apache" name? Wake up! On 7/10/2020 12:00 PM, Eric Broch wrote: There is NO issue! And, this is the point. Using the term "blacklist" in reference to an email server IS NOT RACIST. It was never used to infer anything of the sort, so when people say that they

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

There is NO issue! And, this is the point. Using the term "blacklist" in reference to an email server IS NOT RACIST. It was never used to infer anything of the sort, so when people say that they must be rid of it because it is racist, there's another agenda going on. Futhermore, "nonsense" is

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

* Eric Broch: > This is not about racism this is about a Marxist (Socialist) > takeover. Huh? Please don't quote me when talking nonsense such as this. It is of course about racism. I just don't consider "improving language" (an ugly euphemism, by the way) a productive way to deal with this

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

My comments were not sarcasm. You're acting the part of a Marxist by dismissing my (and others) speech. You are playing the "Useful Idiot." You say there are no Marxists in the U.S. but that's exactly what BLM claims to be. Also, you will know them by their fruits whether they say it or

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not... but just in case: Whoever may be the Marxist/Socialists, the're definitely not in the US... Assuming you never lived under such a government you're just talking thru your hat. and now lets put this offtopic blah to rest. On 7/10/20 7:07 PM, Eric Broch

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Amen! This is not about racism this is about a Marxist (Socialist) takeover. They don't care if you use the terms whitelist or blacklist, this is a revolution. Soon, it will be as in Dr. Zhivago. You'll come home being dispossessed of your house and belongings under the supervision of the

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

> On Jul 9, 2020, at 9:00 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote: > > IMPORTANT NOTICE > > If you are running trunk, we are working on changing terms like whitelist to > welcomelist and blacklist to blocklist. > > https://bz.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7826 >

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

* Kevin A. McGrail: > This is about doing the right thing and getting rid of racially charged > language. I'd appreciate support in this change or at least if you can't > say something nice or helpful, just keep it to yourselves. Is it the official Apache.org position to tell those with

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10/07/2020 16:42, jdow wrote: > Be sure to purge every instance of "fork" in the code because it sounds too > close to the other F..K word. Get the fork out of there. > > {O,o} > i.e are you guys being just a little stupid here? I agree, this is just insanity... where will it end. --

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/10/20 8:07 AM, Pedro David Marco wrote: >On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:10:20 AM GMT+2, Axb wrote: >so glad to read this... confirms my picture of you. >now back my pet project: rewrite Tom Sawyer OK... who starts??? :-) once Finished we can rewrite "El Quixote" as well...

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:16:15 +0100 Martin Gregorie wrote: >>I think that "welcome list" and " list" are more informational > Still a bit woolly methinks. I think, acceptlist and rejectlist are a > more meaningful pair of terms. Welcome is the only one that is meaningful; accept, block and

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:16 AM Martin Gregorie wrote: > > On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 10:36 +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: > > On 10.07.20 08:50, Axb wrote: > > > the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. > > > Seriously.. you have more important issues... > > > > while I am not a

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 12:07 +, Pedro David Marco wrote: > OK... who starts??? :-) > once Finished we can rewrite "El Quixote" as well... > That's already been sort of redefined: see https://xkcd.com/556/ Martin

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 10:36 +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: > On 10.07.20 08:50, Axb wrote: > > the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. > > Seriously.. you have more important issues... > > while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that > "welcome list" and "block list" are

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

>On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:10:20 AM GMT+2, Axb wrote: >so glad to read this... confirms my picture of you. >now back my pet project: rewrite Tom Sawyer OK... who starts??? :-) once Finished we can rewrite "El Quixote" as well... --Pedro

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

>On Friday, July 10, 2020, 12:26:59 PM GMT+2, Marc Roos wrote: >Hey Pedro, I don't know for sure, I do not want to create a new problem, >but this yahoo, was this word not used during the railroad building to >encourage and push slaves to work harder? Would you mind using different

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:12 AM hospice admin wrote: > > $0.02 from a woman of colour ... > > I personally find stuff like this just a little bit patronising ... more of a > matter of kicking the real problem into the weeds than actually doing > anything practical to 'fix' it. > Thank you

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:23 AM Axb wrote: > > On 7/10/20 9:13 AM, Gianluca Furnarotto wrote: > > This is foolish, we are losing control. I have nothing else to think about > > ... and the next one that needs to change its name is the TV series "The > > Blacklist"? > > And the next would be to

RE: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave Blacklist means "protection", so it is something positive... Whielist is for something wrong you cannot solve... so where is the problem? this is like the change from SystemV

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Blacklist means "protection", so it is something positive... Whielist is for something wrong you cannot solve...  so where is the problem?   this is like the change from SystemV to SystemD    plesae stop creating new problems! -Pedro

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 01:59:10, Matthias Leisi wrote: Not responding to any of the messages in particular, but it may be worth to weigh in. dnswl.org  will do a rebranding to a socially less loaded terminology. We have not decided on a new branding yet and do not yet have a timeline

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

. I'm sure the intent was positive though ... Judy. From: Kevin A. McGrail Sent: 10 July 2020 05:00 To: SA Mailing list Subject: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave IMPORTANT

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

An important part of etymology is the of use of words in the perspective of the modern world. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6148600/ Many of the discussions I've read on this have views on either side of the argument and tend to go on for a very long time. Personally, it's a

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

The renaming is only occurring in 4.0.0 codebase. We have no timeline for when 4.0 will come out but there will be plenty of warning and UPGRADE notices about the nomenclature changes which include backwards compatibility with the old nomenclature but documented as deprecated. The old

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/10/20 10:57 AM, jdow wrote: On 20200710 01:53:30, Axb wrote: On 7/10/20 10:36 AM, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that "welcome list" and "block list" are more informational. SA doesn't block anything so a blocklist only makes stuff naturally

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 2020-07-10 10:36, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: > On 10.07.20 08:50, Axb wrote: > >> the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. >> Seriously.. you have more important issues... > > while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that > "welcome list" and "block list" are more

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Not responding to any of the messages in particular, but it may be worth to weigh in. dnswl.org will do a rebranding to a socially less loaded terminology. We have not decided on a new branding yet and do not yet have a timeline (renaming a project with 14 years of history

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 01:46:55, Olivier wrote: Hi, One solution maybe to release the next version of SA with only the renaming and no other change in the features. And give the users time to see whether it works or if the renaming creates serious problems of compatibility. While I find the words

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 20200710 01:53:30, Axb wrote: On 7/10/20 10:36 AM, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that "welcome list" and "block list" are more informational. SA doesn't block anything so a blocklist only makes stuff naturally confusing Oh, you're supposed to

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Besides, they are not black and Irish me is not white. We are all various shades of beige. And I am a racist because I judge people on their own individual actions, capabilities, and initiative. So surely that is being racist, at least as seen by people who deep inside feel that the people who

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Hi, One solution maybe to release the next version of SA with only the renaming and no other change in the features. And give the users time to see whether it works or if the renaming creates serious problems of compatibility. While I find the words black/white list easy to use, I wou;ld not

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 7/10/20 10:36 AM, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that "welcome list" and "block list" are more informational. SA doesn't block anything so a blocklist only makes stuff naturally confusing

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

I have gentle fun in some of my code and note I have a pointer to my mommy. I figure people can figure that out and get the chuckle. Of course, that's in my own code for myself and maybe others if I toss it onto GitHub. I also stick in the occasional Daddy. So it might even out. I don't obsess

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Historical precedent, which if changed breaks too many very valuable tools. That "get the fork out of there" anecdote is 100% true. I was a part of the project using GRiD OS which used a lot of UNIX derived nomenclature. Fork was one such word. The AF had EDS proof reading the documents. EDS

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 10.07.20 08:50, Axb wrote: the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B lists. Seriously.. you have more important issues... while I am not a fan of renaming, I think that "welcome list" and "block list" are more informational. While people working with these terms know them, others may

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

jdow writes: > As a woman engineer, retired, after many years in industry even "gents" > does not bother me. It goes with the territory. And if I had a dollar > for every time I heard "you guys" from a woman talking to other women > I'd be almost as rich as poor man Biden. > > Political

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

Matus UHLAR - fantomas writes: Good day Guys > > On 10.07.20 09:45, Marc Roos wrote: >>You are being a tad discriminative, by assuming there are no ladies >>reading these messages. Which is highly inappropriate for the current >>thread. ;) > > I thought guys can also mean women, at least

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

On 2020-07-10 10:19, Paul Stead wrote: > How would you explain to a 5 year old why being on a "blacklist" is seen as > bad and a "whitelist" is seen as good? > If all of computer science are supposed to be understood by 5 year olds we're going to have much bigger problems to explain than

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