Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread atul singh
1) [ X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. *Reason::* I think generifying data-structure/mod

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Ayodeji Aladejebi
scan this user forum, you will realize that there is no high demand for generics in wicket from users. I am yet to see one user or thread here of wicket users screeming out for generics addition. I think users has been doing just fine without it at least speaking for myself. Anything more than IMo

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Ayodeji Aladejebi
[X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [ X] Whatever choice ultimately made, I'll happily

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Eelco Hillenius
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Ayodeji Aladejebi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > scan this user forum, you will realize that there is no high demand for > generics in wicket from users. I am yet to see one user or thread here of > wicket users screeming out for generics addition. I think users has be

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Eyal Golan
[X] *Can best be done in a limited fashion*, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. *Reason* - Well, I haven't started working "hard" o

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Peter Ertl
1) Generifying* Wicket [X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you fee

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Nick Heudecker
> 1) Generifying* Wicket > [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify > IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do > for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models > for instance) than static type checking. > > > 2) How strong

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Advanced Technology®
1) [ X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) [ X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't win. AT

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread James Carman
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) Generifying* Wicket > [ ] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models > and components are both generified. I care most about the improved > static type checking generified models and components gi

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Ricky
[X ] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. I think generifying Components give more clarity (Don't blame Wicket for Messed up Generic Nota

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Matthew Young
[X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Ricky
wow this has a pattern for sure doesn't it ? ;) Rick On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Matthew Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify > IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do > for API clarity (declaring a

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Vit Rozkovec
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you f

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Stephan Koch
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [ ] Whatever

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-01 Thread Johan Compagner
Didnt you encounter the big thread (at least 100 messages) where we discussed/voted going to 1.4? (and cool down dev on 1.3) On 6/1/08, Ayodeji Aladejebi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > scan this user forum, you will realize that there is no high demand for > generics in wicket from users. I am yet t

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Scott Swank
> 1) Generifying* Wicket > [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models > and components are both generified. I care most about the improved > static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. > [X2] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only ge

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Thijs
1) Generifying* Wicket [ X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do y

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread wicket user
1) Generifying* Wicket [X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you feel

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Wouter de Vaal
> 1) Generifying* Wicket > [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models > and components are both generified. I care most about the improved > static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. I had a production quality project with the old 2.0 branch (dow

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Antoine van Wel
> 1) Generifying* Wicket > [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models > and components are both generified. I care most about the improved > static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. This is the only solution that makes sense, the other options a

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Gwyn Evans
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Scott Swank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would prefer to have models and components generified, however if > this makes the API too verbose or cumbersome to use then I prefer to > fall back to only generified models. At one point someone suggested a > wiki page ou

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [x] Whateve

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. Verbose VS Clarity, Clarity wins hands down. 2) How strongly d

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Guðmundur Bjarni
I agree with Antoine. Guðmundur Bjarni Antoine van Wel wrote: > >> 1) Generifying* Wicket >> [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models >> and components are both generified. I care most about the improved >> static type checking generified models and components give

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Wouter Huijnink
1) Generifying* Wicket [X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Alex Jacoby
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X] Whatever ch

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread richardwilko
[ x ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [ x ] Whatever choice ultimately made, I'

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Falcor
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. Component generification

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
why are you contradicting yourself? "To be honest I don't see the advantage of generic components, all I want is to not have to do casting when I'm using models, .getModelObject() should return the type that I put in, in a list view, if I give it a list of strings I dont want to cast the listItem

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread mozvip
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Should be avoided, definitly. All this generics stuff is ruining my wicket experience. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't win. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/users%2C

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread mozvip
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Should be avoided, definitly. All this generics stuff is ruining my wicket experience. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't win. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/users%2C

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread richardwilko
ok maybe i misread this : 'Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking.' but those 2 sentences seem

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Stefan Lindner
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [x] I definit

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket ok maybe i misread this : 'Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for ins

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:21 AM, richardwilko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ok maybe i misread this : > > 'Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify > IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do > for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept ce

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
Ok you example doesnt work.. You will need to cast there Then IModel only only helps describing the constructor. After that you loose the generics or you have to ofcourse keep the models and dont work anymore directly with the components So if we only do IModel and not component then this will ne

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
essage- > From: richardwilko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:21 AM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > > > ok maybe i misread this : > > '

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
I think its not quite that simple. Certainly both sets of components should use generics (silly to have a partial solution) but how its done is vital so that it doesn't become a huge mess. I'm one of the adopters of the M1 release and I've found it quite difficult to keep things straight sometim

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
From: mozvip [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:13 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket 1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Should be avoided, definitly. All this generics stuff is ruining my w

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Goes to show you that people have a tendency to reject things that they do not understand rather than put in the effort :o) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matej Knopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone > having any particular objections against current state. I think before > we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss > what's wro

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
+1 -Original Message- From: Brill Pappin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:49 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket I don't know, I think the discussion is going *toward* gen

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Carman Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:56 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matej Knopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not sure I like where this discussion is goin

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:56 AM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matej Knopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> I'm not sure I

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martin Funk
Hi Elco, hi Users, first of all thanks a lot for trying generics in wicket in the first case. I haven't really cared about em so far, too much. So thanks a lot for the learning experience I'm going through right now. [x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel bu

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. I think before we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss what's wrong (except the verbosity of course, but that's not something we can really do ab

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
om: Matej Knopp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:46 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular o

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread John Krasnay
On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 01:44:59PM -0700, Eelco Hillenius wrote: > > 1) Generifying* Wicket >[x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify > IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do > for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
put in the effort :o) > > -Original Message- > From: richardwilko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:21 AM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > >

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martin Funk
Hi Elco, hi Users, first of all thanks a lot for trying generics in wicket in the first case. I haven't really cared about em so far, too much. So thanks a lot for the learning experience I'm going through right now. [x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel bu

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi, I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. @matej_k: ugh - you should count again... if I counted right, most of the responses yet prefer 'Component' /not/ being touched by generics. > +1, I agree. I

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Jan Kriesten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > @jwcarman: > > There is an issue with generics on components which is leading into a big > mess - and as far as I can see, many objections are especially on that > topic! It might not be Wicket's fault, though, it might be a

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
nday, June 02, 2008 11:11 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Agreed. I don't see a problem with having to type Link or Page instead of Link/Page. That's simply the way that generics are implemented

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
lf Of James Carman > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:56 AM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matej Knopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: &g

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Hi, But IMHO putting generics on Component is a bad design, since it per se touches all of Wicket's Components without urgent need. I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the component and model are very tightly coupled. What is a *good design* alternative,

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jan Kriesten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > >> I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone >> having any particular objections against current state. > > @matej_k: > > ugh - you should count again... if I counted right, most of the re

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
ehalf Of James Carman > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:06 AM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > > Why don't we use the Wiki page to list our *specific* "gotchas" we > encou

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Matej, Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on day-to-day basis. well, I did, and it really doesn't looked nice (and it doesn't work as it should in the end, but that's another story). The main point is (repeatedly) ignored by the people who are 'pro' gene

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Scott Swank
Agreed. I don't see a problem with having to type Link or Page instead of Link/Page. That's simply the way that generics are implemented in Java. Are there places in the API where an end user would have to type something like Class>>? That way madness lies, however I haven't seen anything like

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:28 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jan Kriesten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > >> I'm not sure I like where t

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Sebastiaan, I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the component and model are very tightly coupled. that's part of the problem, agreed. What is a *good design* alternative, where only IModel is generified? getModelObject() returns Object? getModel ret

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:23 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Hi, > I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
ar if you understand what void represents. The key point is that Java generics are not runtime generics ;o) -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:37 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: wh

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
IL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Carman Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:06 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Why don't we use the Wiki page to list our *specific* "gotchas&

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "raw type". - Brill Pappin -Original Message- From: Sebastiaan van Erk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:53 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on gene

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
Yes, the trick here is to not muddy up Wicket for the newcomers. Wicket needs to be easy to learn and understand in order for it to be adopted by the masses! On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Martijn Dashorst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Question is, how many of those users are core committers. Not

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Sebastian, What about getModel()? If componennt is not generified I'm really wondering if the there is any benefit to generics at all... (I do really think it will spawn lots of questions on the list as well). what's the problem with getModel? If you specialize on a certain Component, you

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Jan Kriesten wrote: Hi Sebastiaan, I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the component and model are very tightly coupled. that's part of the problem, agreed. Kind of "late in the game" to do anything about that it seems though. And I don't know if I ag

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martijn Dashorst
Question is, how many of those users are core committers. Not everybody is a generics wizz you know, nor has the need to become one. Most users want to just build web apps in a clean, self-documenting API that doesn't put too much burden upon them - conceptually and number of characters to type, re

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
be ignored if the user didn't have a place for them. - Brill Pappin -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:46 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics w

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Ryan Sonnek
> > 1) Generifying* Wicket > [x] Should be avoided, I prefer the way 1.3 works. Because... (fill > in your opinion here). > After seeing the impact that generics had on the codebase, I'm begining to feel that it's not worth the effort. Trying to *JUST* generify models seems like a half baked sol

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi William, If you use more than one type of model for a given component I would hardly say that it is only a fraction of the time. Do you use only one type of model on all your components? :o) read again - I said 70% of my components don't have a Model... The use of Void is not an obscure

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:46 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Hi Sebastiaan, I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the com

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
ebastiaan van Erk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:53 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket James Carman wrote: > I'm adding a "Gotchas" section now. Your pallete gotcha seems

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
1:47 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Question is, how many of those users are core committers. Not everybody is a generics wizz you know, nor has the need to become one. Most users want to just build web apps

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
:03 AM, Hoover, William <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> I would like to see what the major issues are as to why people are >>>> rejecting model/component generics. None that I have seen so far are >>>> that convincing- esp

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Hi William, > If you use more than one type of model for a given component I would > hardly say that it is only a fraction of the time. Do you use only one > type of model on all your components? :o) read again - I sa

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Hi William, > If you use more than one type of model for a given component I would > hardly say that it is only a fraction of the time. Do you use only one > type of mod

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Charlie Dobbie
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) Generifying* Wicket > [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models > and components are both generified. I care most about the improved > static type checking generified models and components gi

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Alastair Maw
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Martin Funk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are quite some methods that don't return the component, > but its class. Maybe most prominently 'getHomePage()' in Application. > > This used to have the signature: > public abstract Class getHomePage(); > > And a popul

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Yes, property model (and compound friends) don't mix well with generics. With generics a type safe alternative is wanted (and a very good start is Matej and Johan's type-safe model implementation). Regards, Sebastiaan Jan Kriesten wrote: hi al, The second is almost certainly worth doing. Th

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi william, Wouldn't that infer that the component has to have generics, or am I missing something here? you miss something... getModel/getModelObject would have to be non-final and overriden by the specialized component (return types are covariant, so you can override object with somethin

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Enlighten me with an example -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:23 PM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket hi william, > Wouldn't th

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
You really have to use it to appreciate the benefits. Quick glance will just be scary :) -Matej On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on >> day-to-day basis. > > Common, a quick glance and

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:34 PM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket hi william, > Enlighten me with an example just like that: Component { public object getModelObject(){ ... } } FormComponent exten

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
> IMHO storing a model in a Component is more a convenience than a > fundamental part of component-ness. This may be part of the reason that > genericizing Component is so contentious. I agree. Eelco - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [E

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi william, Enlighten me with an example just like that: Component { public object getModelObject(){ ... } } FormComponent extends Component { public T getModelObject() { ... } } regards, --- jan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Sebastiaan van Erk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A raw type is a parameterized type in which the type parameters are not > filled in, i.e., new HashMap() (instead of new HashMap()). > > Just try to return one of your old (non-generified) HomePage.class classes > (i.e

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket Hi Sebastian, What about getModel()? If componennt is not generified I'm really wondering if the there is any benefit to generics at all... (I do really think it will spawn lots of questions on the list as

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Matej Knopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone > having any particular objections against current state. I think before > we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss > what's wron

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi sebastiaan, You could use Java's covariant return types to override getModel() to return a specific type. Which would mean that you would need to subclass to "simulate" generics (with a new subclass for each type). not really, you can do generify your components from a certain level and

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Stefan Jozsa
Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:1) Generifying* Wicket [X] They, the core developers, knows better then me (everyday users doesn't have in-depth and extensive view on generification pro and cons. As usual, to find a good compromise may be _very_ tricky business). 2) How strongly do you f

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
public final T getModelObject(){ ... } ... } -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:03 PM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics wit

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
> Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on > day-to-day basis. Common, a quick glance and comparing some of the code/ examples you see with the code you write now (with 1.2/ 1.3) is enough to get a good - and as far as I am concerned informed well enough - idea. Eelc

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi al, The second is almost certainly worth doing. That said, I use PropertyModel more often than anything else, and that doesn't allow you to make any guarantees anyway. :-/ good point. :-) regards, --- jan. - To unsubscri

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread John Krasnay
On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:59:09AM -0400, Hoover, William wrote: > I read it, but I think most people will be using models more frequently > than 30% of the time. Personally, I use them 99% of the time. Really? Haven't you heard of CompoundPropertyModel? jk -

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Zappaterrini, Larry
I am currently using 1.4 M1 and here are my choices: 1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Bernard Niset
Hi all, [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choic

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Al Maw
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:22 PM > To: users@wicket.apache.org > Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on > generics with Wicket > > On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:59:09AM -0400, Hoover, William wrote: > > I rea

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