Re: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Another question, if a Baha'i gets engaged and one or both of their parents is a covenant breaker, is parental consent waived? Regards, David __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-480282-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Year of patience - Exceptions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Baha'is are not to divorce without a year of patience. This may not always be possible, however. One may have a non-Baha'i spouse. Baha'i law can't be imposed on them, so if they want an immediate divorce they can't be stopped. Baha'i law is subordinate to civil law. If the non-Baha'i spouse gets a divorce I assume the Baha'i is free to immediately pursue another relationship without waiting a year? Would this also mean the following is not applicable: ''During this year of patience, the husband is obliged to provide for the financial support of his wife and children... (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 211) Also, is there anything really bad that one of the people could do which would allow the year of patience to be dropped? Regards, David __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-481481-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Year of patience - Exceptions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv It was brought to my attention that I missed the following letter: 1331. ...There is no Baha'i law requiring the removal of voting rights for obtaining a civil divorce before the end of the year of waiting. It is, of course preferred that civil divorce action be not instituted or completed before the end of the year unless there are special circumstances justifying such action. If a Baha'i should marry another prior to the end of waiting however, voting rights should be suspended a, under Baha'i Law, he is still regarded as married whether or not the civil divorce has been granted. On the other hand, if a non-Baha'i partner, having obtained a civil divorce, married during the year of waiting, the Baha'i partner is released from the need to wait further. (From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to a National Spiritual Assembly, August 20, 1974) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance) __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-481486-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Year of patience - Exceptions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv the partner who is the 'cause of divorce' will 'unquestionably' become the 'victim of formidable calamities'. (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 391) This is an interesting prediction. Has anyone observed this with numerous marriages? Regards, David __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-481516-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Does anyone else find this?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I've often found that after telling people things about the Faith that I would have thought separate it from Christianity they say things indicating they think Baha'i is a Christian denomination. Telling them about Buddha, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah doesn't necessarily make them see a distinction. Perhaps the problem is often that I might refer to them as 'Prophets'. Christians, and many others, understand the word quite differently to Baha'is. Being a Prophet or Messenger of God to them does not indicate sinlessness or infallibility. I also find a lot of people who haven't heard I'm a Baha'i but only know I'm religious assume I'm Christian. Many think that if you're white and religious you must be a Christian. Regards, David __ Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-485342-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Marriage vows
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On the other hand no one should force one's own convictions on another (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 222) There will be occasions where a Baha'i marries an atheist. The atheist is required to say 'We will all, verily, abide by the will of God.' Just wondering how to see this in light of the above. It may not be forcing our convictions on them, but they are required to say a marriage vow they don't even agree with. I assume the marriage is still valid if, after the vow, an atheist says 'Assuming He exists'. David __ Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-48-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Letter from Tolstoy
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 'Abdu'l-Baha in London mentions a letter Tolstoy sent to 'Abdu'l-Baha. Do we have a copy of it? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-493323-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Amanuensis?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Say: O Yahya (Azal), produce a single verse, if thou dost possess divinely-inspired knowledge... Judge thou fairly, I adjure thee by God, and call to mind when thou didst stand in the presence of this Wronged One and We dictated to thee the verses of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 75) Was Mirza Yahya an amanuensis to Baha'u'llah at some point or is this not meant literally? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-495663-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Political views
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Baha'is may find themselves in the situation where a non-Baha'i tries to find out their political views. Let's say you are an American and the 2008 Presidential election has just taken place. How should you respond to a non-Baha'i asking Who did you vote for? If you do reveal who you voted for, and it's not who they voted for, they may ask you why you voted for that person. Does a Baha'i really want to be defending their choice to a non-Baha'i? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-496196-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Political views
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes, I was not talking of the legality of revealing your vote. I guess we all agree that if not asked we shouldn't say who we voted for. I had thought that Baha'is shouldn't say if asked but recently I've thought differently. Perhaps a Baha'i celebrity might be a different case. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-496512-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Political views
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sure, if we are teaching the Faith we should not bring it up, but as you know I teach at a HBCU (historically black college) and when my colleagues told me that when white people went into the poll booth they would not vote for a black man, I couldn't resist coming back to work the next day and say, Yes, we did. :-) Why the extreme skepticism? Didn't pre-election polling indicate the opposite? There have been black governors in the US. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-496515-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Political views
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Janine, Are you saying (in your opinion) the Baha'i celebrity should decline to say who they voted for, even if asked? Just trying to understand what you mean. I could be wrong, but that's what I would think. If asked in an interview, that is. If they said they voted for Obama there's the possibility of mistaken reports in the media that the person is a Democrat. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-497091-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Political views
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Another question. A non-Baha'i says to you Barrack Obama is a terrible President. How should you respond? The problem is that it's difficult to respond without taking sides, or appearing to take sides. You could try saying uh huh in a tone of voice that sounds more like oh right than I agree with you, but it could be interpreted as agreeing. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499093-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Polishing the Mirror (the Soul)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 4. Alison is a Bahai, but Susan doesn't approve. Didn't she disagree with some UHJ decisions, though? It makes no sense to claim to be Baha'i if you don't support the UHJ, plus it means you don't meet the qualifications of membership decided by Shoghi Effendi. Agreeing with nearly everything about the Faith doesn't make you a Baha'i. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499592-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Polishing the Mirror (the Soul)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Didn't she disagree with some UHJ decisions, though? that's the rumour, but the UHJ has never said so, and I've seen no evidence for it. It's easy to launch a rumour. I'm fairly sure a while ago I saw a copy of a critical letter to them, probably on her website. Not totally sure. I did speak to a couple family members tonight on the subject, as we used to live in NZ. One said it was common knowledge among NZ Baha'is that she wrote to the UHJ arguing that Shoghi Effendi could not have been the successor of 'Abdu'l-Baha. There wasn't agreement as to whether she had actually criticized the UHJ. no sense to claim to be Baha'i if you don't support the UHJ, Agreed I find it interesting you agree with this after what you say below. Agreed. Being Bahai is a personal committment, not a mere opinion. Still, so far as I know, Alison is a Bahai. If it's important to you to know, you can ask her: there a contact form on her site. She's not enrolled, but then neither are the Bahais in China or Iran. Neither am I. Neither were all the Bahais who lived before there was such a thing as enrollment. Vice versa, not every name on the membership rolls represents a Bahai. Isn't this a bit misleading? Describing Alison as 'not enrolled' hardly sounds accurate. The House decided she wasn't to be counted as a Baha'i. In saying Alison is a Baha'i are you disagreeing with the UHJ decision or are you disputing that they disenrolled her? Unlike the Baha'is in China or Iran, she could be an enrolled Baha'i. I won't ask her if she's a Baha'i because I know she considers herself as such. Iran and China may be exceptions, but in most countries whether a person is classified a Baha'i or not is determined by whether they are enrolled. Hence, I think it is misleading to classify Alison as such. I know you're aware that the House decided to disenroll you, and referring to yourself as a Baha'i seems to tacitly imply criticism of their decision. The UHJ determines the membership, and sometimes says that certain people who apply for membership cannot be enrolled, but it does not say that they are not Bahais. They said you weren't a Baha'i, though. Who is correct, you or them? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499636-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Polishing the Mirror (the Soul)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Sen, Good you wrote that letter to the House, and I'll be interested to see the response. Have they responded yet? I wasn't sure if you were indicating they had responded already or will in future. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499817-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Polishing the Mirror (the Soul)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, Are you responding to a private message, David? Oh, I see it could have been misleading. I was responding to Sen's post including his letter to the House, though I didn't quote from it. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499875-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Polishing the Mirror (the Soul)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I don't think Sen's letter was posted here. It was about a day ago. You can see it in the archives. I'd reproduce it but I know some people pay by the byte. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-499880-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ablutions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, Baha'is perform ablutions before saying their obligatory prayers even if they have just had a bath, but the more thorough going ghusl in Islam is done after sexual relations or after a women's period. This is because semen and menstrual blood render one ritually impure. The Bab and later Baha'u'llah abolished this concept. What was the point of the concept in Islam, then? If ghusl was never actually necessary from a hygeine perspective what was the wisdom of it? Were those people ever ritually impure or not? I'd like to know how to square this with Islam being a revealed religion and religion being superstition if it doesn't go along with science. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510202-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Untrustworthy/Disobedient?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I have a question about the following: Shaykh Abid, known by his pupils as Shaykhuna, was a man of piety and learning. He had been a disciple of both Shaykh Ahmad and Siyyid Kazim. One day, he related, I asked the Báb to recite the opening words of the Qur'án: 'Bismi'llahi'r-Rahmani'r-Rahim.'[1] He hesitated, pleading that unless He were told what these words signified, He would in no wise attempt to pronounce them. I pretended not to know their meaning. 'I know what these words signify,' observed my pupil; 'by your leave, I will explain them.' He spoke with such knowledge and fluency that I was struck with amazement. He expounded the meaning of 'Allah,' of 'Rahman,' and 'Rahim,' in terms such as I had neither read nor heard. The sweetness of His utterance still lingers in my memory. I felt impelled to take Him back to His uncle and to deliver into his hands the Trust he had committed to my care. I determined to tell him how unworthy I felt to teach so remarkable a child. I found His uncle alone in his office. 'I have brought Him back to you,' I said, 'and commit Him to your vigilant protection. He is not to be treated as a mere child, for in Him I can already discern evidences of that mysterious power which the Revelation of the Sáhibu'z-Zamán [2] alone can reveal. It is incumbent upon you to surround Him with your most loving care. Keep Him in your house, for He, verily, stands in no need of teachers such as I.' Haji Mirza Siyyid Ali sternly rebuked the Báb. 'Have You forgotten my instructions?' he said. 'Have I not already admonished You to follow the example of Your 76 fellow-pupils, to observe silence, and to listen attentively to every word spoken by Your teacher?' Having obtained His promise to abide faithfully by his instructions, he bade the Báb return to His school. The soul of that child could not, however, be restrained by the stern admonitions of His uncle. No discipline could repress the flow of His intuitive knowledge. Day after day He continued to manifest such remarkable evidences of superhuman wisdom as I am powerless to recount. (Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 75) Okay, I don't get it. The Bab was a sinless Manifestation and was always a Manifestation. Yet He repeatedly disobeyed His uncle's instructions to observe silence. When the Bab promised to obey the instructions He didn't keep His promise. 'Abdul-Baha said Our meaning is that, in the sight of God, trustworthiness is the bedrock of His Faith and the foundation of all virtues and perfections. A man deprived of this quality is destitute of everything. (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 339) How was the Bab trustworthy in breaching His promise? Furthermore, what about obedience to parents? It may have been His uncle, but the uncle counts as a parent since he raised the Bab. Does being a Manifestation waive certain aspects of accountability? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510205-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Spam
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Yahoo account I'm using is sending a lot of posts from here to the spam folder. Is there any way to change my settings so that all messages from this e-mail address go to my Inbox? This would save me a bit of time. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512633-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I just realized I sent a message about my spam problem entitled Spam, probably the worst title if I wanted a response! Here is the message again: The Yahoo account I'm using is sending a lot of posts from here to the spam folder. Is there any way to change my settings so that all messages from this e-mail address go to my Inbox? This would save me a bit of time. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512635-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Rv: possibilites of remembering Shoghi Effendi's birth or passing or some date related to his work?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There's no way Shoghi Effendi would allow his birthday to be celebrated if 'Abdu'l-Baha didn't allow His to be celebrated. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-515684-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Halo effect
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I've heard Baha'is talk about the halo seen in various pictures of 'Abdu'l-Baha. I'm just wondering, is there a skeptical Baha'i view of this, or do all agree this is amazing? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-519630-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Borrowing money
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Just wondering if there has been anything from the House or an NSA on Baha'is borrowing money from other Baha'is. I have heard of the occasional Baha'i going around asking for money and it has been a problem. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-519875-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
I don't get this passage
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sincerity is the foundation-stone of faith. That is, a religious individual must disregard his personal desires and seek in whatever way he can wholeheartedly to serve the public interest; and it is impossible for a human being to turn aside from his own selfish advantages and sacrifice his own good for the good of the community except through true religious faith. For self-love is kneaded into the very clay of man, and it is not possible that, without any hope of a substantial reward, he should neglect his own present material 97 good. That individual, however, who puts his faith in God and believes in the words of God -- because he is promised and certain of a plentiful reward in the next life, and because worldly benefits as compared to the abiding joy and glory of future planes of existence are nothing to him -- will for the sake of God abandon his own peace and profit and will freely consecrate his heart and soul to the common good. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, p. 96) I suspect I don't understand the meaning of this passage as it doesn't seem to square up to facts. It's impossible to sacrifice your own good for the good of the community except through religious faith. Huh? Am I to believe atheists, agnostics, and people who believe in God but not religion never do anything selfless for the sake of others? Or that these people never give to charity? There was a period in my life where I didn't have true religious faith by any means, yet I still donated generously during this time. I wasn't hoping for a 'substantial reward' then and a reward isn't my first priority now. Also, I didn't think you were supposed to believe in the words of God just because of a reward when you get to heaven. Since when have most needed rewards in order to believe? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-525945-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Trustee of Huququllah
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dr Varqa was the International Trustee, but my understanding was that he had to appoint a successor in his will. Who is currently in this role? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-529143-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Trustee of Huququllah
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Office of Huququ'lláh has been established in the Holy Land under the direction of the Chief Trustee of 175 Huququ'lláh, the Hand of the Cause of God 'Ali-Muhammad Varqa, in anticipation of the worldwide application of the Law of Huququ'lláh next Ridvan. Concurrent with this development are the steps being taken by Dr. Varqa to organize regional and national Boards of Trustees of Huququ'lláh, following the example of the Board already functioning in the United States. (The Universal House of Justice, A Wider Horizon, Selected Letters 1983-1992, p. 174) The Trustee of the Huququ'lláh, the Hand of the Cause of God Dr. 'Ali-Muhammad Varqa, has been asked to designate, whenever advisable, certain representatives for the Huququ'lláh in various townships, provinces and neighbouring countries, so that the offering of the Huququ'lláh may be facilitated for the friends in those regions. (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 518) So my question is who is the new Chief Trustee of Huququllah. Is it now the function of the House or a few individuals appointed by the House? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-529307-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Where do they get their information?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The House appoints Counsellors and trustees of Huququllah. A lot of the time they are reappointing people whose job performance they have been able to assess. I'm interested in how they go about new appointments. I'm sure much of the time members of the House don't know the people that well (as in haven't spent much time around them). So where do they get their information from? I'm guessing they often canvas others who have served in the role for their recommendations. I suspect with Counsellors the collective advice of Counsellors in the region often determines who is appointed. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-530141-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Politics on Facebook
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I've noticed a number of Baha'is on Facebook who have 'Barack Obama' as one of their 'Likes'. Baha'is are not supposed to take sides in political disputes. Isn't indicating your support for a politican doing just this? Ah, you might say, they are just saying they like Obama, not that they support him. Perhaps, but isn't any non-Baha'i going to interpret it as meaning you are a supporter? I did also just see a Baha'i who has chosen to specify their political views on their profile, which I certainly don't think is appropriate. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-533321-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Faith will increase in numbers vastly in the future. Given that the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546038-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, Given that the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future? It is struggling to keep up with what? Their workload. I seem to remember you saying this when you said why more and more Baha'is are getting responses from the World Centre directing them to knowledgeable believers for answers to their questions. I think you said the Research Department is now being used mainly by the House. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546043-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think we do have a fairly accurate figure for the number of *active* Baha'is in India. It is about 90,000. I had no idea. If we're only counting active Baha'is, which country in the world has the most Baha'is? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546442-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Entry by troops - Ever defined?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There's a lot in Baha'i literature about entry by troops. I don't know that it is ever really defined, though. How do we know if strong membership growth is enough to be regarded as entry by troops or whether, while impressive, it isn't entry by troops? Is there anything on the subject that would give us an idea of the statistical threshold to reach for entry by troops? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-618441-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Overcoming homosexuality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I read an article in the newspaper a little while ago on this issue, and it mentioned the American Psychological Association's position on this. They said there is little evidence that efforts to overcome homosexuality work, and that people often become suicidal who try. I remember bringing this subject up here before, and I'm pretty sure it was Ian Kluge who said he knew of many Baha'is who had successfully changed their sexual orientation so maybe he can comment. My question then is what was the difference in approach with people who were successful compared to those who weren't? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-618793-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Overcoming homosexuality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Actually it must have been the American Psychiatric Association's position I was referring to. I remember APA. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-618816-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Name of new office?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I was talking to the secretary of the NSA at Summer School, and he mentioned there being a new office at the World Centre. This office answers frequently asked questions. It can be written to directly, and will only pass the message on to the House if the query cannot be answered. I can't remember the name of it, though. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-627052-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Prophecies
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Mark (I'm behind in reading messages), One of the more intriguing aspects of Miller’s eschatology (end-times theology) is that, even though his method of interpretation was entirely different from the one in ʿAbduʾl-Bahá’s Some Answered Questions, Miller somehow discovered 1844. How is Miller's method of interpretation entirely different to SAQ? I thought some of 'Abdul-Baha's 'traditional proofs' were taken from Miller. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-627054-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Voting rights
The Baha'i Studies Listserv How much clear advice does the House give NSA's about when voting rights should be removed? Maybe it's changed since I left, but the NZ NSA seemed pretty 'soft' on this, generally giving endless warnings. Australia seems to be much different. Someone had their voting rights taken away despite doing much less than some people in NZ who never lost their voting rights. Hence I wonder if the House leaves a lot of latitude to NSA's. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-630606-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The `ulama' in the Bahai community
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Sen, It looks to me that that quote is a reference to the Muslim divines rather than Baha'is, and that is probably why there is nothing else on the subject. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-643591-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Tenfold increase
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Be ye assured that in place of these contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold increases, with goodly gifts and bestowals. He who cometh with one goodly deed will receive a TENFOLD REWARD. (Baha’i Prayers, p. 83) This passage certainly sounds like it is meant to be literal, though I haven't seen any evidence suggesting Baha'is in general become significantly better off financially as a result of giving to the fund. I've known several Baha'is whose 'industry' (their personal business) has gone bust despite giving to the fund generously. The tenfold part may not be literal, sure. But are Baha'is more wealthy than other people? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-649381-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: a question, please
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I'm glad we normally say it in Arabic. A common Baha'i greeting is Alláh'u'Abhá. How are you? I'd feel weird about going up to someone and saying God is the Most Glorious. How are you? It's like going up to someone and saying Berlin is the capital of Germany. How are you? David From: Hasan Elías hasanel...@yahoo.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Saturday, 9 June 2012 8:15 AM Subject: a question, please The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think I've asked this before, but I can't find the email in my mind or in the list (there is no a subject index for this list or in Tarikh list). My question is: When we pronounce Alláh'u'Abhá, for example; is it the Arabic words that have power? Is it the same to say God is the Most Glorious? I recall a quote of 'Abdu'l-Bahá whe He says that the repetition of the Most Holy Name will take [spiritual] effect, even if the person who say it is not aware of the meaning. Also, we have to repeat 95 times a day the same Alláh'u'Abhá, I suppose it is not the same than repeat God is the Most Glorious which is large and maybe lost the power, etc. Thanks for replies, Best, Hasan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-651062-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Baha'u'llah mentioned in Bee Gees song
The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JECTUQVrvzEfeature=plcp A couple of family members were sure the Bee Gees mentioned the name Baha'u'llah in the song Words. The above link shows they are correct. However, it appears there are two versions of the song, the other substituting 'my love' for Baha'u'llah. Can anyone tell me anything more about this? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-657344-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Bigamy permitted in bahá'í writings?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Jesus, for example, did not prohibit polygamy, but abolished divorce except in the case of fornication; Muhammad limited the number of wives to four, but making plurality of wives contingent on justice, and reintroducing permission for divorce; Bahá'u'lláh, Who was revealing His Teachings in the milieu of a Muslim society, introduced the question of monogamy gradually in accordance with the principles of wisdom and the progressive unfoldment of His purpose. The fact that He left His followers with an infallible Interpreter of His Writings enabled Him to outwardly permit two wives in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but uphold a condition that enabled 'Abdu'l-Bahá to elucidate later that the intention of the law was to enforce monogamy. Both Muhammad and Baha'u'llah allowed a plurality of wives contingent on justice. Since 'Abdul'-Baha clarified that justice is impossible, doesn't that mean that Muhammad never really allowed polygamy? What, then, of the apologetic explanation taken from the letter from the House of Justice on the subject: 'Regarding the wives of Bahá'u'lláh, extracts from letters written on behalf of the beloved Guardian set this subject in context. They indicate that Bahá'u'lláh was acting according to the laws of Islám, which had not yet been superseded, and that He was following the customs of the people of His own land: ...as regards Bahá'u'lláh's marriage it should be noted that His three marriages were all contracted before He revealed His Book of Laws, and even before His declaration in Baghdád, at a time when Bahá'í marriage laws had not yet been known, and the Revelation not yet disclosed. (25 May 1938 to a National Spiritual Assembly) Bahá'u'lláh had no concubine, He had three legal wives. As He married them before the Aqdas (His book of laws) was revealed, He was only acting according to the laws of Islám, which had not yet been superseded. He made plurality of wives conditional upon justice; 'Abdu'l-Bahá interpreted this to mean that a man may not have more than one wife at a time, as it is impossible to be just to two or more women in marriage. (11 February 1944 to an individual believer) ...Bahá'u'lláh married the first and second wives while He was still in Tihrán, and the third wife while He was in Baghdád. At that time, the Laws of the Aqdas had not been revealed, and secondly, He was following the Laws of the previous Dispensation and the customs of the people of His own land. (14 January 1953 to an individual believer)' Since Muhammad also made a plurality of wives contingent on justice, how could Baha'u'llah have been following the laws of Islam in taking multiple wives? Did any of the Imams clarify what the Qur'an said on plurality of wives, as 'Abdul-Baha did Baha'u'llah? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-667655-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Laws applying only to Persians
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Do the laws currently applying only to Persians apply to half Persians, people with only one Persian parent? My understanding is that they don't. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-671538-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Letter from the House on voting
The Baha'i Studies Listserv This is a response I just got from the first letter I've sent to the House for a couple years. Dear Bahá’í Friend, The Universal House of Justice has received your email letter of 10 April 2012 seeking clarification of a passage in its message to the Bahá’ís of the world dated 25 March 2007 about the strengthening of the Bahá’í electoral process and asking how to resolve a three-way tie vote when two of the individuals are members of minorities. We have been asked to convey the following in response. The purpose of the 25 March letter is to bring to the attention of the friends certain aspects of the Bahá’í electoral process that have a bearing on the sound and healthy development of the community. Your question concerns the sentence that states, “From among the pool of those whom the elector believes to be qualified to serve, selection should be made with due consideration given to such other factors as age distribution, diversity, and gender.” The meaning is not that one should cast one’s vote simply on the basis of the factors mentioned, but that one should give those factors due consideration when choosing among all those one believes to be qualified. This statement is based on explicit comments made by Shoghi Effendi concerning the criteria a believer should keep in mind when voting. He wrote: They should disregard personalities and concentrate their attention on the qualities and requirements of office, without prejudice, passion or partiality. The Assembly should be representative of the choicest and most varied and capable elements in every Bahá’í community. (In the handwriting of Shoghi Effendi, appended to a letter dated 11 August 1933 written on his behalf to an individual believer and published in Compilation of Compilations, Australia, 1991), no. 712) This principle is further elaborated by the Guardian in Unlike the nations and peoples of the earth, be they of the East or of the West, democratic or authoritarian, communist or capitalist, whether belonging to the Old World or the New, who either ignore, trample upon, or extirpate, the racial, religious, or political minorities within the sphere of their jurisdiction, every organized community enlisted under the banner of Bahá’u’lláh should feel it to be its first and inescapable obligation to nurture, encourage, and safeguard every minority belonging to any faith, race, class, or nation within it. So great and vital is this principle that in such circumstances, as when an equal number of ballots have been cast in an election, or where the qualifications for any office are balanced as between the various races, faiths or nationalities within the community, priority should unhesitatingly be accorded the party representing the minority, and this for no other reason except to stimulate and encourage it, and afford it an opportunity to further the interests of the community. In the light of this principle, and bearing in mind the extreme desirability of having the minority elements participate and share responsibility in the conduct of Bahá’í activity, it should be the duty of every Bahá’í community so to arrange its affairs that in cases where individuals belonging to the divers minority elements within it are already qualified and fulfill the necessary requirements, Bahá’í representative institutions, be they Assemblies, conventions, conferences, or committees, may have represented on them as many of these divers elements, racial or otherwise, as possible. The adoption of such a course, and faithful adherence to it, would not only be a source of inspiration and encouragement to those elements that are numerically small and inadequately represented, but would demonstrate to the world at large the universality and representative character of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh, and the freedom of His followers from the taint of those prejudices which have already wrought such havoc in the domestic affairs, as well as the foreign relationships, of the nations. ( 2003 printing), pp. 35–36) As can be seen from the above passage, the principle of giving preference to representatives of minorities applies over a wide range. It is to be borne in mind by individual believers when casting their ballots, it is to be considered by Assemblies when appointing committees or calling upon individual friends to undertake responsibilities on behalf of the community, and it is to be recognized in an election when a member of a minority is involved in a tie vote with another believer. As to how a tie is to be broken among three individuals when two are members of minorities, another vote should be taken to select between the two minorities. With loving Bahá’í greetings, Department of the SecretariatThevol. 1 (Maryborough: Bahá’í PublicationsThe Advent of Divine Justice:The Advent of Divine Justice (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1990, __
Are the other countries doing this?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I just saw this: 'The National Spiritual Assembly is delighted to advise that, after considering the outcomes of the ballots held for Local Spiritual Assembly members, and with the valuable support and views of the Counsellors in Australia, it has appointed the Regional Bahá'í Councils that will serve for the year commencing 26 November, 2012.' While there is a vote, the will of the voters doesn't have to be respected. Is this the case just in Australia, or in other countries? If it's the case in other countries then I don't see how it's keeping with the spirit of the Faith. Shoghi Effendi talks about the freedom of the voter to choose whomever they believe to be best. I respect the right of anyone to vote for whom they consider best and even would if I thought they made poor choices in who they voted for. Why doesn't the NSA just accept the results of the vote even if they don't think there were enough young people, minorities, new members etc. If they don't think people are voting well I think education is the solution, not ignoring voting results they don't like. Or is it okay because this is an appointed body? If a straight vote doesn't count they may as well not have a vote at all. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-675209-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Are the other countries doing this?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes it's being done that way in other countries. Okay, so this is done per the advice of the House of Justice? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-675212-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Animal nature
The Baha'i Studies Listserv What I've seen of 'Abdul-Baha's comments on animal nature appears to agree with the common view that animals act according to nature and act selfishly. I have been seeing more and more evidence of animals often acting selflessly, like risking their life saving an owner from a fire. A recent article of relevance is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-new-model-of-empathy-the-rat/2011/12/08/gIQAAx0jfO_story.html Does evidence like this oppose what 'Abdul-Baha is saying or have I misconstrued it? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-678236-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Christmas tree? superstitions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I wonder what word is being translated as 'superstition'here. Is the text of Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Baha in its original language available online? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-680189-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Number of believers in Iran
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I was just at a talk by a teacher at the Baha'i university in Iran. He said that the common figure of 300,000 Baha'is in Iran was the government figure and that the true total is between 1-1.5 million. I think I've heard it claimed that the figure is higher than usually stated, but not this high. For those in the know, do you agree with his claim? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-680768-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Buddhism
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God... (SAQ) I'm not looking to discuss whether or not Buddhist Writings actually mention God. Is there any historical evidence that Buddha established the Oneness of God, though? I can't imagine that 'Abdu'l-Baha would used the word 'established' if Buddha didn't make a lot of followers believe it. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-682280-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Talks
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Someone in my community recently asked if I knew of a source where he could find talks from members of the Universal House of Justice. He didn't specify format so it could be written. If anyone knows of a source I could point him to it would be appreciated. Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-682311-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
One form of Unity in Diversity not meant to be eternal?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There is stuff in Baha'i literature about diversity of races/skin colour being a good thing, but also approving of intermarrying between different races. But if intermarrying becomes very common the time will come when everyone looks the same. Is physical diversity not meant to be eternal, or am I to believe that Baha'u'llah hoped that a sizable portion of the population would avoid intermarriage so that we could continue to have diversity? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-683458-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv If humans are supposed to be heterosexual, as the Baha'i Writings say, why are so many animals homosexual? Did God intend many animals to be so? If He did then God is okay with homosexual animals but not humans, which I'd like an explanation for. Here is the Wikipedia article on homosexuality in animals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-695454-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Fulfilled yet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 'A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity.' I've heard Baha'is say this prophecy has already been fulfilled by the internet. While I'm pretty sure it refers to the internet, has it really been entirely fulfilled yet? Freed from national hindrances? China bans a lot of sites. North Koreans don't have much access yet. Marvellous swiftness? I've heard a lot of complaining about broadband speeds in various places. I think few would agree that the internet functions with marvellous swiftness everywhere. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-736584-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Myth or fact?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There seems to be a pervasive belief amongst Baha'is that if a lot of Baha'is pray in unison for something (from wherever they are at the time) the effect is far more powerful than if they pray at different times. Is there any foundation for this in the Writings, though? Because if there isn't it sure looks to me to be myth. Is God so legalistic that He would be less inclined to answer sincere prayers just because they aren't all said at the same time? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-742337-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
World Congresses
The Baha'i Studies Listserv In recent years the House has called for a series of 41 regional conferences (20 Oct 2008) and another series of youth conferences. I was just thinking about this and am wondering whether the House may not ever call for another Baha'i World Congress. Presumably if they were to call for such a Congress they would choose an anniversary year, and 2021 would be a likely choice, plus would maintain the approximately 30-year gap between the first two. It just seems to me that with this embrace all focus the House would, if they announce anything for 2021, announce a series of conferences around the world where pretty much anyone could go instead of a conference in one country which most couldn't go to. Any thoughts? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-745109-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Fast
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 'I ask of Thee by Thy Self and by him who hath fasted out of love for Thee and for Thy good-pleasure-and not out of self and desire...' This implies some people fast for selfish reasons. Can anyone elaborate on why a person might fast with the wrong motives? David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-745750-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Deputization funds
The Baha'i Studies Listserv We now have regional deputization funds, which can support living costs for pioneers. My suspicion is that sooner or later the system will be abused, prompting more scrutiny in how funds are distributed. My main concern is that some non-Baha'is will find out about this fund and become Baha'is under false pretences as a means for financial gain. Hard up for money and wanting to leave town? In that case pretend you believe in Baha'u'llah, get signed up and then collect the money to live in a new house. I suspect some people may be found out because of no evidence they are teaching the Faith, and maybe little or no attendance at Baha'i events. I also wonder if some Baha'is may see this system as a means for financial gain. Some may not have any bad intentions but just see it as the Baha'i community supporting them financially when they are in a tough position. I worry about the possibility that people may fudge the figures when asking for financial assistance. Does anyone ask for an invoice? If not people could inflate living expenses somewhat, as long as the figures were in plausible limits. So I just worry that something bad will happen and then policies on how to distribute funds will get tightened to avoid the system being abused. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-749076-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Future declining need for an international auxiliary language?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/handheld-sigmo-offers-real-time-language-translation-for-25-languages/#!MdOSw If you didn't already know, we now have devices by which people can speak (or at least a machine speak for them) to people in foreign countries without learning the language even a bit. Presumably the number of people who use such devices will increase substantially. In addition there are also numerous online translation sites. So my question is, will an international auxiliary language be anywhere near as necessary in future as it was when Baha'u'llah spoke about it? If I can go to a foreign country and communicate fine without learning the language, how important is it for me to know a universal language? Regards, David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-753057-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Does this surprise you?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I just read an article, which seems to have been reported widely, on the second biggest religion in each U.S. state. I was shocked to see that the Baha'i Faith is second in South Carolina! Of course, I don't live in the U.S. but just wondering if this comes as a surprise to others. Also, I'm interested to know how many Baha'is there are in South Carolina and whether there is any significant disparity between Baha'is on the roll and those that are active. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-756457-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
CRM numbers down universal?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I'm interested to know whether what we've found over here is true all over the place. It's been very difficult getting decent numbers to cluster meetings for quite a few years. There was a discussion about the subject at a recent meeting where a couple people expressed aversion to the idea of door knocking as the reason. I hadn't thought about this before but it sounds right. One person in our community has a monthly deepening on a particular week of the month, and chose to hold it on the same morning as the expansion phase as a competing event. I heard a report from a recent pilgrim about them shutting down the new pilgrim house and going back to the old because donations are down. I hope this has no connection with the door knocking, as I would be less likely to want to join a religion if I knew they wanted me involved in door knocking. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-759144-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Abrogated?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv From the 10 July letter from the House: 'Unless specifically abrogated by these new provisions, previous guidance and clarifications pertaining to the calendar and the observance of the Nineteen Day Feast and Holy Days remain binding...' Previous guidance from whom? I don't see that it naturally reads as meaning just things the House has previously said. The House can't abrogate anything from Shoghi Effendi or the Central Figures but can for its own decisions. David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-759671-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Proof of Prophet
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I was reading parts of 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks regarding what proves whether a
person is a Prophet/Manifestation of God. It looks to me that if the same
criteria are applied to the Bab and Baha'u'llah they wouldn't classify as
Manifestations of God.
Consider the passages below:
It is evident that the divine Prophets
have appeared in the world to establish love and agreement among mankind. They
have been the Shepherds and not the wolves. The Shepherd comes forth to gather
and lead his flock and not to disperse them by creating strife. Every divine
Shepherd has assembled a flock which had formerly been scattered. Among the
Shepherds was Moses. At a time when the tribes of Israel were wandering and
dispersed, He assembled, united and educated them to higher degrees of capacity
and progress until they passed out of the wilderness of discipline into the
holy land of possession. He transformed their degradation into glory, changed
their poverty into wealth and replaced their vices by virtues until they rose
to such a zenith that the splendor of the sovereignty of Solomon was made
possible, and the fame of their civilization extended to the East and the West.
It is evident, therefore, that Moses was a divine Shepherd, for He gathered the
tribes of Israel
together and united them in the power and strength of a great nationhood.
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation,
pp.116-17)
...religion must be conducive to love and
unity among mankind; for if it be the cause of enmity and strife, the absence
of religion is preferable. When Moses appeared, the tribes of Israel were in
a state of disunion as captives of the Pharaohs. Moses gathered them together,
and the divine law established fellowship among them. They became as one
people, united, consolidated, after which they were rescued from bondage. They
passed into the promised land, advanced in all degrees, developed sciences and
arts, progressed in material affairs, increased in divine or spiritual
civilization until their nation rose to its zenith in the sovereignty of
Solomon. It is evident, therefore, that religion is the cause of unity,
fellowship and progress among mankind. ('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation, p. 128)
The work of the shepherd is to bring
together the scattered sheep. If he disperses the united flock, he is not the
shepherd. As the Prophets fulfilled Their mission in this respect, They are the
true Shepherds. When Moses appeared, the Israelitish people were disorganized.
Enmity and discord increased their disunion. With divine power He assembled and
united this scattered flock, placed within their hearts the pearl of love,
freed them from captivity and led them out of Egypt
into the Holy Land. They made wonderful
progress in sciences and arts. Bonds of social and national strength cemented
them. Their progress in human virtues was so rapid and wonderful that they rose
to the zenith of the Solomonic sovereignty. Could it be said that Moses was not
a real Shepherd and that He did not gather these scattered people together?
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation p. 162)
According
to the argumentation here, a Prophet must unite the people and bring prosperity
to the nation. That Moses did so is taken as a proof of His Prophethood.
Applying this to the Bab and Baha'u'llah, how do they classify as Prophets?
Neither united the nation or increased its material prosperity, quite the
opposite. Iran is in a terrible state long after both died. There are early
Prophets mentioned in the Iqan who Baha'u'llah says no one listened to. Since
they achieved nothing, how are they Prophets? If the religion of God is
supposed to cause unity and if it brings enmity and strife no religion is
preferable then what was the point of the Baha'i Revelation? So that centuries
later unity might come about? 'Abdu'l-Baha talks only of unity created by the
Manifestation at the time. Moses is said to have brought unity to a nation
during His lifetime, whereas Iran got worse during the lifetimes of the Bab and
Baha'u'llah.
Baha'i belief is that the Mosaic Revelation prepared people for Jesus. But
applying the below passage to Jesus seems to disqualify Him as a Manifestation:
Among the holy, divine Manifestations of
God was Moses. The sending of Prophets has ever been for the training of
humanity. They are the first Educators and Trainers. If Moses has developed the
body politic, there is no doubt that He was a true Teacher and Educator. This
will be proof and evidence that He was a Prophet. We shall consider how He was
sent to the children of Israel
when they were in the abyss of despair, in the lowest degree of ignorance and
heedlessness, degraded and under conditions of bondage. Moses rescued these
degraded people of Israel
from that state of bondage. He raised them from that condition of ignorance,
saved them from barbarism and led them into the Holy Land.
He educated them, endowed them with sagacious instincts, made them worthy and
honorable.
Veil?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Is there an official Baha'i interpretation regarding the passage in the Qur'an about the women keeping her body covered? What does it really teach about the extent to which a Muslim women must be covered? Do we know what the original female followers wore? Regards David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-775311-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Reversing LSA decisions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There was a case in the LSA where it was decided that one of the members would give a deepening. This member later indicated they weren't comfortable with doing it and would not. Right at this time we had an offer from an ABM assistant to do the deepening for us. I indicated I would invite this person to do it but another member raised objections that I could not do this without a majority decision from the LSA reversing the initial decision. This raises some questions about procedure that I wonder if anyone has quotations on. I do not believe that if a person later decides they don't want to do a deepening you need to have a majority speak up saying that is ok. In this case it wasn't that the majority were saying the person should still do the deepening but that most weren't giving their opinion at all. I would have thought that in such a situation a person has the right to decide not to give a deepening. I don't see that as going against the original LSA decision anyway since they later found they could not do it. Regards David __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-776016-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
