very interesting Mark, these two paragraphs:
The other thing is, that whenever you remind us that words are socially constructed, I fail to understand what are the consequences of this insight?It is certainly not original to me. However, IMO, it is enormously important. Many people, including
i bet that you do use some nlp things because nlp is nothing but describing on how people program themselves and by describing and listing it we can unprogram ourselves. We all use nlp techniques to a degree even if we never heard of it.
but that has not much to do with nominalism.
much
I never heard of DMA... what does it stand for?
janine"Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Janine,At 06:01 PM 7/23/2005, you wrote:sorry I should have typed: and by describing and listing it we can find means to unprogram those elements in us that do not work for us in achieving our
thank you for posting this Susan. I found it very interesting to read.
much love,
janine"Brill de Ramirez, Susan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2122935/
This link gives an interesting review of the film My Son, the Fanatic that looks at the process of young
Oh.
Am I right in inferring from your comments that you do not think much of NLP? Which is fine with me :o) I am not overtly attached to anything except to that which resonates with the core of my being.
much love,
janine"Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Janine,At 08:42 PM 7/23/2005,
Mark,
I read the article. It is interesting.
Time and again, in the more than 20 years I have been a Bahai, the question comes to mind whether the minds of human beings, including my own, are not too limited to combine the wisdom within the writings with a structure that will have its effect on
I think this is a very good question David poses.
Most of the things that are shown on tv or in movies
is a reflection of what the majority of people in a
given culture find interesting. Or what the media
thinks the majority finds interesting, and then the
majority of people think they find it
I think this is a very good question David poses.
Most of the things that are shown on tv or in movies
is a reflection of what the majority of people in a
given culture find interesting. Or what the media
thinks the majority finds interesting, and then the
majority of people think they find it
First of all, the Bahai faith puts a lot of emphasis
on the spiritual approach. Bahai communities and
individual Bahais do not always get that that the
world is to be transformed by spiritual means.
Simply put, when a Bahai fails to exemplify the Bahai
teachings to some extend, the teachings
Two world wars showed western women that they were as capable as men of doing jobs. The women of ancient Sparta already knew that.
Janine: the fact that some people and some cultures had ideas that were more humane than the rest of the people around them does not mean that these ideas were
Mark wrote:
I left out the word "don't" after the initial "I."Actually, I should know better than to compose messages when I am tired. Ignore the above. It was right the first time.
Janine: LOL! yes, I was wondering about your second message. It did not make sense at all whereas your first
I wrote:
and in Britainif you travelled from Edinburgh to Scotland once in your life time, you were considered widely travelled
this should read: if you travelled from Edinburgh to Aberdeen in Scotland once in your lifetime, you were considered widely travelled.
janine
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!
Dear Gilberto,
On maturity of humanity: The Bahais believe that a Manifestation of God comes when humanity is at the threshold of a new development. They usher in the New Day (meaning the new era). They do not come when the new development is already a fact.
So no, the world is not yet mature
Dear Ahang,
you wrote:
---
Abdu'l-Baha envisioned a Universal House of Justice
that would have a living
Guardian serving on it at all times, and as its
Head. In that formulation, why
wouldn't the infallibility of the House come through
the Guardian?
what makes you so certain that
Two at that time members of the Universal House of Justice, on two different occasions (in speeches given in the Netherlands), as well as what I heard from several people I know who worked for several years at the world centre, that the House only makes a decision after having obtained unanimous
-
Marriages then were rarely a matter of simple choice
no matter what age you
were, but by all accounts it was a happy marriage.
Dear Susan,
I realise that. I said this because she might not at
all have been unwilling to marry Muhammad, maybe have
even wished for it. It is not usual that
In a way.
my as to date not completely formed thinking goes along the lines that God is Reality.That compared to God some things have no Reality at all. Yet they do have a reality, for example a cat has a certain reality of its own, and when I am hungry it is a reality of its own as well.
But
Janine I would be so as well, unless it was said by someone who I think is speaking with God's authority. Baha'u'llah is someone Who has that authority, for me,G: Yes, alot of these arguments really do just boil down to thatpoint. If you believe the Bahai claims about Bahaullah then
Second, your statement would appear to assume
something like natural theology,
a common approach among religious and ethical
humanists, which I do not accept
Hi Mark,
what do you exactly mean with natural theology and why
do you not accept it?
I have a hunch what you mean, and I hope I am
hi Susan,
This is a conversation I am following with great
interest.
I have what is probably a very stupid question.
Obviously this is a subject you and Mark have
conversed about beforre on this list and I have not
been able to follow all of it. However, I am missing
quotes from the will and
Yes, but I don't personally think we can learn how
to behave by observing nature. Animals can be quite
cruel to one another; and natural selection or
survival of the fittest may work in nature, but, as
Social Darwinism, it made a poor model for human
conduct.
In a broad sense I agree.
I
yep I agree with you Gilberto.
It could be that at a young age this woman recognised
the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was
therefore very willing to marry Him.
Times and habits and way of thinking and mores were
completely different then. Plus, the Prophet was a
very special
Sandra wrote: It has also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after Ruhi) especially for Youth. I'm not sure what that is called. I'm curious if it is the same elsewhere. Regardless, it is only offered to Youth
Sandra wrote: It has also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after Ruhi) especially for Youth. I'm not sure what that is called. I'm curious if it is the same elsewhere. Regardless, it is only offered to Youth
Hi Mark,
I am a bit confused as how you mean this. Do you mean to say that discussions of this sort assume that there is something called goodness in people, do you mean to say that goodness changes with each new Manifestation, that each new Manifestation, because of the taxonomies He uses
Hi Gilberto,
thanks for your response. Food for thought and a challenge to make my understanding and thoughts more clear.
: My question was: how can religion by itself do this? Suppose that a Bahai country interprets the Bahai writings to say that an arsonist should be burned. So this country
Can you give me examples?
I must say that I am allergic to putting labels on people. I hate having put a label on myself, and so think that others would not like that either. I think that there is far more to people than what we may see. And in the west we are so fond of classifying that we
Ok. That is a pity though, cause I do not know what you mean. You could write it to me privately.
janine "Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Janine,At 06:49 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:Can you give me examples?I would rather not get that specific. Regards, Mark A. Foster
Hi Susan,
do you mean to say that Baha'u'llah revealed laws which are meant to last about 1000 years because of certain conditions which were surely temporary conditions in the countries He resided in?
I mean it is possible God doeth what He willeth. yet that does not really make sense to
Iskandar,
why could Aishah not marry again?
much love,
janine"Iskandar Hai, M.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote: Gilberto: Personally I don't see the above issues as requiring or suggesting relativism. In the case of Moses one could argue that the death
hmm... maybe you are right... though I find it difficult to imagine, seeing how much has changed here in Europe in 100 years time, and my optimism for the future of the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/24/2005 7:28:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Religion, as in the Book of Religion, I love. I never consider that spilled milk. Light, from which lamp it shines, is light. Wisdom, no matter what inspired the wisdom, is wisdom.
but yes, the customs and accepted interpretations of previous religions and the habits that people have developed
I posted this before but I am afraid it got lost in all the other discussions. So I am being bold and post it again.
Dear all, recently I was told that the word tabernacle in thisquote in the original persian is actually nottabernacle, but is a word for the curtain whichtraditionally divided the
oh my, either my brain is going or I am suffering from lack of sleep! I keep leaving out half of what I want to convey in my messages.
I wrote:
I wonder if this word in the original language couldhave also the meaning of Tabernacle.
This was actually a question which should have been
Someone on another list remarked that according to science there is a link between commiting arson and being sociopath. It seems that sociopaths manifest their affliction first by an inclination to burn down buildings.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, ireland.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!
Someone on another list remarked that according to science there is a link between commiting arson and being sociopath. It seems that sociopaths manifest their affliction first by an inclination to burn down buildings.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, ireland.
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the
Hi Gilberto,
I completely forgot to answer to this post of yours!
My native tongue is Dutch. I came to ireland 7 years ago. I was born and raised in the Netherlands, aka Holland ;o)
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, Ireland
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:32:35 -0800 (PST), louise mchenry[EMAIL
Susan,
I maintain that it is a job. And that the lsa is a
body who has to decide who is qualified and who is
not.
i have known qualified teachers, who could not teach.
Could not control a group. yet they were hired as a
teacher.
to me, personally, whether someone has done book 3 or
has a
It has not yet reached that level here in Ireland, as
far as I am aware. What things is one not eligible for
in the USA atthe moment if one has not done a certain
ruhi book?
much love,
janine
--- Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It sometimes seems to me that the fundamental
purpose of
--- Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tim,
At 09:01 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote:
The purpose of homefront pioneering is to go to an
area where there are no Baha'is, or few, and help
establish a Baha'i community there. Why should a
person care if anyone is willing to count his effort
so if a pioneer does not want to do ruhi, then he is
not considered fulfilling a goal?
I think the UhJ should be made aware of this, if this
is the case, because that is so not in accordance with
the understanding of the writings I have about
teachign and pioneering.
much love,
janine
---
I want to thank everybody for giving your views and
ideas on this subject. For letting me know what is
happening in other countries, mainly USA and Thailand.
It has enhanced my understanding big time and my
ability to understand what a person who does not like
ruhi may sense as pitfalls and
Dear james
you write: internet lists have, at times, raised eyebrows precisely because someone makes a comment that is derrogatory about an institution or individuals on an institution. IMO, to make such a comment is never acceptable. The internet, however, seems to breed it and that, I feel,
In Ireland, also shipping costs, a ruhi book can cost anywhere between 5-8 euros. 8 at the most. Considering other books, that is not too costly, though not as cheap as USD 5 Still not enough to warrant a comment that someone could make money because they might get a percentage on the profits of
Anybody can set up a study circle. We can always refer back to the UHJ letters to bakc that up.
To be a recognised ruhi facillitator, one has to do book 7 and in some countries, Ireland for example, this one cannot do before one has done book 1,2,3,4,6.
but to set up any study circle one which
I am very sensitive when people start throwing doubts on other peoples motives publicly. To me it is slander. And I will continue to say so. And I have nothing against this person Steve. But anybody who makes a slanderous remark will hear something in protest from me. Even if that person is my
I will only comment that what most Bahais call firesides are not firesides in my view at all. And I have noticed that I become less clear in teaching the more I use my own understanding of the faith, and that my words have more impact if i use in a natural way quotes from the writings when I tell
thanks for your reply Susan.
I have difficulty understanding that a consolidated community would not grow much but that is maybe my take on what consolidation is and what effects it has.
I think any community that has say 50 believers and only 18 are seen regularly, is not a very
Yesterday or the day before I mentioned something Abdu'l-Baha wrote about how, if we uphold a decision an assembly makes even when that decision is wrong, through unity truth will shine. Susan remarked she believed that that upholding was only for spiritual assembly members.
I have not yet found
Dear Susan,
you are right I have not seen any statistics ;o)
I think a devotional meeting is not passing the prayer book around. I think it is creating a devotional atmosphere. I usually print out some quotes and prayers and try to make it as diverse as possible, with prayers from different
I want to totally make clear that I did not post these quotes to indirectly say: hey if you do not support ruhi you are not acting in accordance with the guidance.
I want to make that very very clear. I posted those quotes because I beleive that truth will arise when we act in accordance with
So, why not ask your NSA directly? Or the UHJ?
You see, I think fundamentalism is the last thing the world needs. It has been overemphasis of one aspect which lead religions into acts unworthy of the religion. I am quite viligant that this should not happen in the Bahai faith. So if I was
Dear people,
My feeling is from being on Bahai lists for many years on the internet, is that people quickly take up an attitude of resignation when faced with something institutions agree on as a line of action and the individual disagrees.
From my study of the writings I have so far concluded
Firouz,
I am sorry for your experiences. They do not seem to
be good.
A couple of years ago (2 I think) there was a
counsellor from Russia over in Ireland to attend a
non-Bahai conference. She told us that in her town the
LSA decided to offer the Ruhi book 1 as a personal
development course to
Susan: In fact
I was just thinking
about just how visceral my reaction to Ruhi was;
that I open the book and
almost feel it shouting at me, We don't want you to
think! But my
experience of this material is probably shaped, at
least in part, by the
anti-intellectualism I've seen in the
Dear Firouz,
Yes, time is a big thing. And talk about taking the
words of an ABM or Counsellor for holy... (sigh).
the first time I ever went to summer school, before
becoming Bahai, Adib Taherzadeh was there and he was a
counsellor. Most of us were camping. Every day Adib
woudl walk the
:o)
I must admit i was in a slightly provocative mood when
I made that statement.
The thing is, what I often see people call a fireside
I don't think is a fireside at all. It is an official
talk about what one person thinks the bahai faith is
saying about a certain topic.
But then, I am a
Hi Susan,
My take on it is this.
Book 2 offered me the idea of introducing Baha'u'llahs
words in a natural way in my speech. It gave me the
practice and confidence to talk more freely than ever
before about the Bahai teachings.
Book 6 gave me a scenario for the subjects which are
most
Dear Susan,
One does not exclude the other. I also feel that your
interpretation of what Abdu'l-Baha is trying to do is
too narrow. I think it does apply not only to assembly
members, but to all of the community. I will later
post some quotes for the reason why I think this, when
I am back at a
Hi Mark,
Oh dear. This could easily end in a pro-contra ruhi debate. When I hear objections to things I always want to try to assess how much of these objections are based in truth. The same when I hear glorification of things.
how many people OUTSIDE the USA do you know who have gone through
Hi Susan,
well, I am not sure that most people are turned off by book one here in Ireland for a start. I am sure that a lot of people who are bahais for a while initially have a bias against book one, until the method is explained to them. and why the repetition is. That is so in Europe, that is
I forgot one thing.
I want to ask you all, both in favour and those not in favour of ruhi, how sure you are you are objective, you follow the tablet of the true seeker in this and how ready you are to throw preconceived ideas and notions overboard. It is a question I invite you to ask yourself.
Chuckle!
No Ruhi is not academic. I omitted something there. What I intended was: if you live in a culture whihc has a strong subculture of anti-intellectualism and then a method is introduced which is not appealing to the intellect, it can create a strong bias against that method.
You say it
Hi Mark,
I just discovered this post. Mark, I have no clue
what Cloud9 is, what you are talking about... I am
using a Yahoo account. I do not know what problem you
are referring to ;o) Can you tell me more or is it
resolved now?
much love,
janine
Mark A. Foster
Fri, 07 Jan 2005
Dear all,
I read some of the posts on ruhi on this list with
interest.
From what I am getting from the USA Bahais at various
places on the internet it seems that in the USA Ruhi
is tutored in quite a strict way, with a lot of
emphasis on 'how it is supposed to be taught'.
In Ireland we
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:02:25 -0800 (PST), louise
mchenry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you Khazeh for your willingness to respond.
Yes. :)
I will therefore now address Gilberto.
From the above I understand that the concept of
Justice
is also
without spirit.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin ireland
--- louise mchenry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
thank you for your response Gilberto.
Apparently no human has thought before of the same
simple yet to me so powerful solution on how to put
the ideal of unity in diversity
Dear Sheila,
I always value personal experience, when people are
willing and able to make themselves vulnerable and
relate of their own experiences. Thank you for doing
so, giving me therefore a glimpse into your
experience.
It has helped me a lot to read over and over again
what is written
Dear Gilberto,
I have read most of the posts here responding to your opinion about the Qur'an.
It seems that you have some ideas about the Bahai faith which are not in accordance with what I understand of the Bahai writings.
I am posting here because you said you want to find out what Bahais
HI all!
Sorry for coming up as Louise McHenry. This email address is an old one which I have used for some lists for which I felt I needed an alias. My real name is Janine van Rooij. Several years ago I was member on this email list.
I am a Dutch Bahai of more than 20 years, finding the Bahai
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