Hi, Susan,
But I don't think that is a term which Baha'u'llah uses either. To my
knowledge it goes back to the Guardian.
Yes. However, at least use of the term perfect Exemplar may give some
*interpretive* authority to the idea that `Abdu'l-Baha was covenantally
protected (ma'sum/'ismat) from
Gilberto:
Sure. For many of those characteristics listed I've seen
passages of Quran, or hadith, etc. which mention them as well.
I don't
think Bahais have monopolies on those characteristics. There
are
ways to cultivate and encourage and facilitate good leaders
which
don't involve converting to a
Hi, Susan,
At 09:48 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
In the case of Mormonism there is strong evidence to suggest that on the
global scale they are experiencing the same stagnation as we are:
http://www.cumorah.com/report.htmlhttp://www.cumorah.com/report.html
Yes, I was referring to American
Mark:Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in the U.S. It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism. JS:
And I think for this reason it is surprising that Islam and the Baha'i Faith have grown so fast in the US (Islam recently and Baha'i
Scott,
At 08:40 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
Mark seems to have come into the faith the same way I did, through the
written words of Baha`u'llah. When truth sings in your heart, you are carried
away. Baha`u'llah's words reveal His character. Abdu'l Baha's words reveal
Baha`u'llah's character. That
And I think for this reason it is surprising that Islam and the Baha'i Faith
have grown so fast in the US (Islam recently and Baha'i over the last 50
years).
Not to me. Most of the internal growth (i.e., not due to immigration) in the
States has been among people of color. This paragraph
Yes. However, at least use of the term perfect Exemplar may give some
*interpretive* authority to the idea that `Abdu'l-Baha was covenantally
protected (ma'sum/'ismat) from impurity/sin.
Dear Mark,
But that is circular. If Abdu'l-Baha was not infallible then one can
question whether or not He
"Could omniscience of Manifestation of God be at
spiritual level only but not physical level?"
Dear Firouz,
I would certainly feel more comfortable if
this was the case, but that doesn't appear to be what Baha'u'llah is saying in
the Lawh-i Hikmat at all. It also does not appear to
Hi, Susan,
At 08:11 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
I didn't see any big problem with that book aside from the fact it had never
gone through review.
Gaver imported a lot of popular Baha'isms, urban legends, or
kitab-i-hearsays, into the book. I would need to go back and find them.
However, overall,
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:29:38 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 09:25 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
I would probably prefer to discuss this point with an issue that wasn't so
emotionally charged because because it can be sensitive for alot of folks.
But I would say,
Yes, that is a good point. However, I did find one passage, in the
Suriy-i-Ghusn, Tablet of the Branch, which implies (moral?) error for those
who reject `Abdu'l-Baha
Dear Mark,
And we have similiar statements from Abdu'l-Baha regarding the House of
Justice. ;-}
I don't think there is any
In a message dated 1/25/2005 8:37:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gaver imported a lot of popular "Baha'isms," urban legends, or
"kitab-i-hearsays," into the book.
Dear Mark,
I suppose at the time I read that book I took those things for granted.
warmest,
In a message dated 1/25/2005 8:33:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
However,
some other things have been much greater concerns to me recently, especially
Ruhi.
Well, if it is any comfort, Baha'u'llah didn't do that.
;-}
Dear Mark.
What you said reminded me of a previous conversation I had on the
relative appeal of groups like the Nation of Islam and the Bahai faith
to African-Americans.
So by comparison, Abdul-Baha wrote:
But I wish to say one thing in order that the blacks may become
grateful to the whites
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:03:26 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark:
Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in
the U.S. It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism.
JS:
And I think for this reason it is surprising that
Susan,
At 08:11 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
Aisha, not Khadija.
Yep. ;-)
I think of circumstances where it might for me. For instance if Baha'u'llah
had authorized anything similiar to the massacre of the Banu Qurayza I doubt
if I could recognize Him as having the remedy we need for this day.
In a way.
my as to date not completely formed thinking goes along the lines that God is Reality.That compared to God some things have no Reality at all. Yet they do have a reality, for example a cat has a certain reality of its own, and when I am hungry it is a reality of its own as well.
But
Gilberto,
At 08:42 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
But if its not a case of abused and if you are just talking about people
getting married at ages atypical for 21st century Kansas, I don't think
that's a moral question.
I think it would clearly be a moral issue to most Americans for an adult to
Susan,
At 08:46 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
Well, if it is any comfort, Baha'u'llah didn't do that. ;-}
I suppose we can all ask Him about it in the next world.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger. Abbie Hoffman
Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in
the U.S.
Exactly. We are doing much better in Africa and Asia where their figures are
only about a half of million.
It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism.
Which is why I doubt it is
Sorry. The first message got truncated. I resent.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger. Abbie Hoffman
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
Gilberto,
At 10:09 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
That she was pre-pubescent is an assumption on your part. There are
indications otherwise.
I know the issue is not decided. However, the author of the article you
referenced before on the subject said that, presently, the evidence *did*
support that
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:11:52 -0800 (PST), louise mchenry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Gilberto,
thanks for your response. Food for thought and a challenge to make my
understanding and thoughts more clear.
Glad to oblige.
My question was: how can religion by itself do this? [reform
Gilberto,
At 10:54 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
It's the individualists who throw off traditional scholarship who are the
extremists.
But isn't that what the 19th-century higher critics were doing - throwing off
traditional scholarship?
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL
Thanks
From: Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:38:51 -0600
James,
At 10:30 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
What is the basis of this statement?
Are there any current statistics
available that show comparative numbers of Baha'is from year to year?
Such statistics would be interesting.
Dear James,
On the global level, or within the US? US statistics exist and they indicate
we definitely experienced a decline this year. Do you want me to
Janine I would be so as well, unless it was said by someone who I think is speaking with God's authority. Baha'u'llah is someone Who has that authority, for me,G: Yes, alot of these arguments really do just boil down to thatpoint. If you believe the Bahai claims about Bahaullah then
Thanks Susan. From experience at the Baha'i National Center (and keeping up
with those statistics during that time) their availability in the US is
known. On the International level, they would be interesting.
From: Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies
In like manner, those words that have streamed forth from the source of power and descended from the heaven of glory are innumerable and beyond the ordinary comprehension of man. To them that are possessed of true understanding and insight the Súrah of Húd surely sufficeth. Ponder a while those
Dear friends,
This prayer and information is forwarded from the Baha'i list in Japan.
Best,
S. Fotos
=
This Prayer is found in AdhkArul Muqarrabeen the Volume dedicated to the
Master's Prayers page 86
And also in the more recent compilation of His prayers published in
Germany, number 198
Someone recently wrote,
"It [Mormonism] is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of
American romanticism."
Would you please explain what this means?
As I understand them, the chief characteristics of romanticism
are "a heightened interest in nature, emphasis on the individual's
_expression_
Second, your statement would appear to assume
something like natural theology,
a common approach among religious and ethical
humanists, which I do not accept
Hi Mark,
what do you exactly mean with natural theology and why
do you not accept it?
I have a hunch what you mean, and I hope I am
Hi, Janine,
At 06:22 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
what do you exactly mean with natural theology and why do you not accept
it?
Natural theology posits that God reveals Himself in nature, and, therefore,
that it is possible to learn truths, virtues, etc. by observing material
things. Some natural
hi Susan,
This is a conversation I am following with great
interest.
I have what is probably a very stupid question.
Obviously this is a subject you and Mark have
conversed about beforre on this list and I have not
been able to follow all of it. However, I am missing
quotes from the will and
To them that are possessed of true understanding and insight the Súrah of Húd surely sufficeth. Ponder a while those holy words in your heart, and, with utter detachment, strive to grasp their meaning. Examine the wondrous behaviour of the Prophets, and recall the defamations and denials uttered
I'm saying that when a 53-year old male marries a 20-30 year old female,
he has married a young woman, and when he marries a female who is
barely 18 he then has married a teenager. When a 53-year old male
marries a female who has just barely tuned 9 lunar years, it is not
accurate to say that he
Yes, but I don't personally think we can learn how
to behave by observing nature. Animals can be quite
cruel to one another; and natural selection or
survival of the fittest may work in nature, but, as
Social Darwinism, it made a poor model for human
conduct.
In a broad sense I agree.
I
I do not take all of the comments here about the marriage between Muhammad and Aisha asevidencethat Muhammad was evil or had ill intentions.
As our society changes, there is a need to renew the Revelation of God, which is, after all, written forUS inOUR language based onOUR society.As our
In a message dated 1/25/2005 5:56:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why, specifically, was it a violation of the Bab's honor? I
can see
how it was a violation of the wife's honor; it appears she was
simply
passed around like a piece of furniture, none of
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:40:30 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Janine,
At 06:22 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
what do you exactly mean with natural theology and why do you not accept
it?
Natural theology posits that God reveals Himself in nature, and, therefore,
that it is
Gilberto:
I never said Islam was the only religion that preaches finality. It
clearly teaches that Muhammad was the last prophet. Christianity does
not teach that Jesus was the last prophet. Judaism does not teach that
Moses was the last prophet.
I just don't want to overgeneralize
Gilberto,
At 09:06 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
.Yeah, there are passages in the New and probably the Old as well, and
definitely some in the Quran which suggest that some religious truth or
guidance can be obtained from meditating on the natural world or history.
I think it may be possible if one
Ahang,
In Iran, yes. Iran was a very small part of the Islamic world. I'm
not saying that there was ever a time in which the Jizya was paid
nowhere in the Islamic world, only that In certain times and places, it
was suspended.
Rich
Ahang Rabbani wrote:
Dear Rich,
The payment of jizya
Listen, judging from the huge number of postings on this list, some of you
folks seem to have a lot of time on your hand. I don't. So this is my last
word on the subject.
Ahang,
I'm sorry for your bad feelings towards Islam. Nonetheless it gives
you no cause to be dismisive and
[ My understanding of Omniscient in Law-i-Hikmat refers to His divine
station. Baha'u'llah in His Divine station is God and Omniscient but in His
Physical station He had His physical limitations similar to all of us.
That's why He read books and newspapers.
Yeah, but what does that mean in rea
The sources indicate that the nikah didn't occur until after puberty.
In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition
of woman are you using?
Peace
Gilberto
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:59:53 -0500 (EST), Iskandar Hai, M.D.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm saying that when a
yep I agree with you Gilberto.
It could be that at a young age this woman recognised
the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was
therefore very willing to marry Him.
Times and habits and way of thinking and mores were
completely different then. Plus, the Prophet was a
very special
In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition
of woman are you using?
Dear Gilberto,
So do you think it would be okay today if a mature man married and had
intercourse with a ten year old girl so long as she had had her menses?
warmest, Susan
Janine:
It could be that at a young age this woman recognised
the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was
therefore very willing to marry Him.
Should the Prophet marry any girl (no matter what age) who would like to get
married to Him?
regards,
Firouz
Firouz:
[ My understanding of Omniscient in Law-i-Hikmat refers to His divine
station. Baha'u'llah in His Divine station is God and Omniscient but in
His
Physical station He had His physical limitations similar to all of us.
That's why He read books and newspapers.
Susan:
Yeah, but what does that
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