On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne
([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru
> > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> >
> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> >
> > -1 because:
> >
> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see
> > below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use
> > base and what they are using...
> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still
> > supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
>
> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment:
"If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting
it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there
are 2 different things:
- not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
- only supporting the latest IE version
> So
> based on what's on
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>
> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market
shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the
creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
Thanks
-Vincent
> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we
> > wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
> >
> > More elaborate answer for point B):
> >
> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it
> > wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported
> > browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows
> > XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released
> > because it was just better in several domains...
> >
> > FTR (source:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still
> > supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
> >
> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish
> > to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send
> > soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> Eduard
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
> >>
> >> > My vote goes to:
> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
> >> >
> >> > My rationale:
> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
> >> > modern browsers.
> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
> >> > third-party JS dependency.
> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
> >> > mention other companies)
> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a
> >> > browser
> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly
> >> > on
> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
> >> > pick Colibri
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Caty
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> >> > > >
> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >> > >
> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> >> > >
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >> wrote:
> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <
> >> > [email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
> >> > simple
> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
> >> > does
> >> > > >>>>> not ?).
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> >> > > older versions.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream
> >> > > >>> support"
> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
> >> > even
> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks
> >> > > >>>> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> >> > > >>>>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> >> > > support it!)
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means
> >> > > >>>>> >> > not
> >> > > IE9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> only.
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > See
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > >
> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >> > > >>>>> >> .
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> >> > > committers
> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> > with
> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> seem
> >> > > to show
> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -
> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> 80%
> >> > > of users
> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
> >> > this
> >> > > includes:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> IE10
> >> > > is less
> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly
> >> > > >>>>> >> upgraded
> >> > > to IE11)?
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] (
> >> > > [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> >> > > [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > I’d
> >> > > like to
> >> > > >>>>> >> propose
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> >> > > are:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> >> > > widely used
> >> > > >>>>> >> by
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
> >> > to
> >> > > IE10 and
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> >> > > Share by
> >> > > >>>>> >> Version)
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > IE11
> >> > > by 16.61%
> >> > > >>>>> >> users.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
> >> > versions
> >> > > (IE8 -
> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> >> > > significant.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> support
> >> > > only the
> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> >> > > doing except
> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> >> > > browsers and the
> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid
> >> > > >>>>> >> services
> >> > > on top of
> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> >> > > customers.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> like
> >> > > that we
> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
> >> > people,
> >> > > because I
> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can
> >> > > >>>>> >> use
> >> > > it without
> >> > > >>>>> >> problems.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we
> >> > > >>>>> >> would
> >> > > cover 70%
> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note
> >> > > >>>>> >> that
> >> > > strangely
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> >> > > others… Not
> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we
> >> > > >>>>> >> have
> >> > > problems
> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top
> >> > > >>>>> >> 6,
> >> > > if that’s
> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
> >> > and
> >> > > with
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
> >> > we
> >> > > try it
> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
> >> > burden
> >> > > for us or
> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> >> > > browser or
> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1
> >> > > >>>>> >> for
> >> > > the
> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > --
> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> --
> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> >> [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> > [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> --
> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> [email protected]
> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>> [email protected]
> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> --
> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --
> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > devs mailing list
> >> > > [email protected]
> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > devs mailing list
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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