On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> > >> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru >> > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> > >> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no >> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”. >> > >> > -1 because: >> > >> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see >> > below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) >> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use >> > base and what they are using... >> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still >> > supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below) >> >> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of >> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”. > > I was replying to Edy’s comment: > "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting > it. "simple and easy to defend”." > > I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there > are 2 different things: > - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support > - only supporting the latest IE version > >> So >> based on what's on >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. >> >> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9. > > And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10. > > I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market > shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the > creator are 2 different things and do not coincide. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we >> > wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP >> > >> > More elaborate answer for point B): >> > >> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it >> > wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported >> > browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows >> > XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were >> > released because it was just better in several domains... >> > >> > FTR (source: >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): >> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still >> > supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003. >> > >> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we >> > wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going >> > to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle). >> > >> > Thanks >> > -Vincent >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eduard >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote: >> >> >> >> > My vote goes to: >> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo >> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo >> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri >> >> > >> >> > My rationale: >> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on >> >> > modern browsers. >> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see >> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support >> >> > is >> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a >> >> > third-party JS dependency. >> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will >> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even >> >> > mention other companies) >> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a >> >> > browser >> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying >> >> > perfectly on >> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should >> >> > pick Colibri >> >> > >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > Caty >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > wrote: >> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what >> >> > > >> MS >> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet >> >> > > >> Explorer >> >> > > > >> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/ >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on >> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. >> >> > > >> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >> wrote: >> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] < >> >> > [email protected]> >> >> > > wrote: >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's >> >> > simple >> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft >> >> > does >> >> > > >>>>> not ?). >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of >> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support >> >> > > for >> >> > > older versions. >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream >> >> > > >>> support" >> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course >> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE >> >> > even >> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>> Thanks >> >> > > >>>> -Vincent >> >> > > >>>> >> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" >> >> > > >>>>> Delhumeau >> >> > > >>>>> wrote: >> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does >> >> > > >>>>> > not >> >> > > support it!) >> >> > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >> >> > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote: >> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means >> >> > > >>>>> >> > not >> >> > > IE9/10/11 >> >> > > >>>>> >> only. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > See >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx >> >> > > >>>>> >> . >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of >> >> > > committers >> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >> >> > with >> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> seem >> >> > > to show >> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - >> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> 80% >> >> > > of users >> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS >> >> > this >> >> > > includes: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> IE10 >> >> > > is less >> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly >> >> > > >>>>> >> upgraded >> >> > > to IE11)? >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( >> >> > > [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( >> >> > > [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > I’d >> >> > > like to >> >> > > >>>>> >> propose >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > versions >> >> > > are: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still >> >> > > widely used >> >> > > >>>>> >> by >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > update >> >> > to >> >> > > IE10 and >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop >> >> > > Share by >> >> > > >>>>> >> Version) >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > IE11 >> >> > > by 16.61% >> >> > > >>>>> >> users. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older >> >> > versions >> >> > > (IE8 - >> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85% >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still >> >> > > significant. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> support >> >> > > only the >> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re >> >> > > doing except >> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all >> >> > > browsers and the >> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid >> >> > > >>>>> >> services >> >> > > on top of >> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their >> >> > > customers. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> like >> >> > > that we >> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of >> >> > people, >> >> > > because I >> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can >> >> > > >>>>> >> use >> >> > > it without >> >> > > >>>>> >> problems. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >> >> > > if >> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we >> >> > > >>>>> >> would >> >> > > cover 70% >> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note >> >> > > >>>>> >> that >> >> > > strangely >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of >> >> > > >>>>> >> the >> >> > > others… Not >> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we >> >> > > >>>>> >> have >> >> > > problems >> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top >> >> > > >>>>> >> 6, >> >> > > if that’s >> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers >> >> > and >> >> > > with >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose >> >> > > >>>>> >> that >> >> > we >> >> > > try it >> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a >> >> > burden >> >> > > for us or >> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> each >> >> > > browser or >> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 >> >> > > >>>>> >> for >> >> > > the >> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >>>>> >> > -- >> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> >> -- >> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list >> >> > > >>>>> >> [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list >> >> > > >>>>> > [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > > >>>>> -- >> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list >> >> > > >>>>> [email protected] >> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list >> >> > > >>>> [email protected] >> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> -- >> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> -- >> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > -- >> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > Thomas Mortagne >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > devs mailing list >> >> > > [email protected] >> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > devs mailing list >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
