Keith does not champion gays as equals. He sees them as second class citizens.
On 12/22/10, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > Tommy, > > Where is the need to champion ANY group when you champion all as equals ?? > > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Tommy News <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Keith- >> >> Although you flippantly state that "Yea, I am an arrogant asshole", >> you are in fact a misguided homophobe, as you have demonstrated >> clearly in your anti-gay statements in these groups. >> >> I suggest that you make youself a New Year's resolution to become an >> ally, champion, and advocate for your oppressed gay friends and group >> members, as other Republicans have done. >> >> Merry Christmas. >> >> On 12/20/10, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hey Wayne! >> > >> > How do ya think stereotypes get started? Any truth to them? >> > >> > Hey Vince! >> > >> > Well, the last thing I wanted to come across as, was condescending! >> > Yea, >> I >> > am an arrogant asshole, but usually a pretty friendly asshole! Nope, >> > not >> > pacifying anyone, ya wanna hear the truth? Come on over and I will >> > shed >> > the light for ya! >> > >> > Good to see ya, and Merry Christmas! >> > >> > KeithInDC >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, vince brackney >> > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >> You know it isn't really worth the effort to get Keith to see the other >> >> side of the coin. Nothing more condescending than someone who claims >> they >> >> are not prejudice and then make the statements that he does. It like >> >> saying >> >> I have gay friends so I am not a hater, when really they are just >> >> pacifying >> >> us. >> >> >> >> He is really saying these things based on his experience of years ago, >> and >> >> I suspect that was before DADT was even in existence. He has opinion >> just >> >> like everyone else. And everyone has the right to his or hers own >> opinion. >> >> I >> >> just wish it wasn't aired in this group. >> >> >> >> I am very thankful for the straight friends I do have that are truly >> >> not >> >> prejudice and except me for who I am. Wish we had more of them in the >> >> world. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:26 PM, wayne berry <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> oh god, keith, i love ya! but do not tell me that you really can't see >> >>> the >> >>> forest for the trees? >> >>> heterosexuality represents 90% of the population. in fact if i am not >> >>> carrying a CD by madonna in my rainbow colored purse, no one ever >> >>> suspects >> >>> i'm gay! no one suspects my husband is bisexual even when he says >> >>> judas >> >>> priest is his favorite metal band! because most people are straight, >> the >> >>> assumption both gays AND straights operate under is that when you meet >> a >> >>> man >> >>> you recognize that odds are pretty good he likes the ladies - you got >> >>> a >> 9 >> >>> in >> >>> 10 chance and rarely will you be wrong. except when you ARE wrong. >> >>> stereotypes exist because in any group you can name there are often >> >>> people >> >>> who fit certain ideas that are recognized - some jews ARE cheap, some >> >>> white >> >>> people ARE incredibly "uptight", some gays DO prefer flowers to >> >>> football... >> >>> but within any stereotype there are plenty enough dissonances to >> >>> reveal >> a >> >>> stereotype for what it is... a careless and casual painting of a large >> >>> group >> >>> of people as being all the same, when indeed none of us are. >> >>> no one has to say they are straight because there are so many of you >> that >> >>> you can scarcely imagine people who are not like you. >> >>> my jobs in kitchens are not as regimented as the military, yet there's >> >>> still a certain amount of macho involved in the job! but here is the >> >>> thing... in all but the most antiseptic atmospheres, someone is gonna >> ask >> >>> you about your life outside the job. and there is nothing that sounds >> >>> worse >> >>> than saying you don't have a girlfriend or a wife or even just some >> girl >> >>> you >> >>> bang now and again, than saying, "oh, i'm sorry i don't talk about >> >>> personal >> >>> stuff like that." or weirder if you constantly avoid the question. >> >>> when >> >>> there is no penalty for telling the truth you are much less a freak >> when >> >>> you >> >>> answer truthfully, "well, no i don't have a wife or a girlfriend... >> >>> i'm >> >>> gay >> >>> and i have a husband/boyfriend... ' or even, "i'm not seeing anyone >> >>> 'special' right now, but i'm doing OK, if ya catch my drift." >> >>> i mean on one hand being gay informs a lot of my life (my tastes are >> >>> somewhat different from yours, observably, aren't they?) but in the >> most >> >>> mundane aspects of life - the need for personal connection, the need >> >>> to >> >>> eat, >> >>> the need to have some sort of meaning in your work? it's the same for >> >>> a >> >>> straight guy as a gay guy. >> >>> i really can't understand your need to cling to a fairly outdated >> concept >> >>> of what a gay man is when you are the moderator of a group that gives >> you >> >>> every evidence of a gay men who are far from those stereotypical >> >>> pictures. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Keith In Tampa >> >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hello Mustang! Good to see ya! >> >>>> >> >>>> First, I knew, when I wrote my initial missive, that there would be >> >>>> at >> >>>> least one thinking, "common sense" kinda guy (<Grin!!> asshole!!) >> >>>> who >> >>>> would >> >>>> call me on my last missive! Touche'! >> >>>> >> >>>> It is in fact a hard concept that I was attempting to frame, and >> >>>> you >> >>>> are correct....Sort of. >> >>>> >> >>>> Yes, as I stated, the military cultivates a "Macho" image, and it is >> >>>> hard >> >>>> to not separate the Macho Man who is the ladies' man. This is in >> direct >> >>>> conflict with my statement that the military does not allow for those >> >>>> who >> >>>> wear their sexual identity on their sleeve. >> >>>> >> >>>> There are a number of men in the military who do in fact play the >> >>>> "cassanova" role. I will admit that to a degree, this is a double >> >>>> standard >> >>>> and in conflict with my premise. >> >>>> >> >>>> Having said that, in my 53 years, I have yet to meet a Heterosexual, >> who >> >>>> identifies himself as a, "Heterosexual". That his whole life >> >>>> revolves >> >>>> around being, "Heterosexual". His politics; his social life; his >> >>>> mannerisms; his diet; his wardrobe; his decor; his passions, likes, >> >>>> dislikes, hatreds, loves, and yes, sexual appetite, are all defined >> >>>> by >> >>>> his >> >>>> "Straightness". >> >>>> >> >>>> Please point this/these individual(s) out to me. >> >>>> >> >>>> Therein lies the distinction, and no, nothing about the repeal of >> >>>> DADT >> >>>> will change the rejection by the United States Military on this one >> >>>> major >> >>>> issue, of Gay men or women who choose to defend our Nation. Just >> >>>> like >> >>>> their >> >>>> straight counterparts, they cannot and will not be able to broadcast >> >>>> their >> >>>> sexual proclivities, as is done so much in the Gay community, and >> maybe >> >>>> in >> >>>> some Heterosexual social circles; (Like the Nudist/Swapping crews). >> >>>> >> >>>> KeithInDC >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Mustang <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Keith, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> While I agree with many, if not most, things you say we disagree on >> >>>>> a >> >>>>> couple. This being one of them. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> "The military does not allow for ANYONE, and this will include >> >>>>> heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, to wear their sexuality >> >>>>> openly, >> >>>>> or to >> >>>>> broadcast their sexual likes or dislikes publicly. >> >>>>> " >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Heterosexuals already do wear their sexuality preference openly. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Are you saying that everyone will suddenly be forbidden any >> opportunity >> >>>>> to display or even have pictures of their family and friends? No >> >>>>> one >> >>>>> will >> >>>>> be allowed to admit they write, call, or discuss any communications >> >>>>> with >> >>>>> their wives, husbands, girlfriends or boyfriends? No one will be >> >>>>> allowed to >> >>>>> talk about how things are going at home or plans after discharge? >> >>>>> While on >> >>>>> leave, no one can invite a male or female military friend to spend >> the >> >>>>> Holidays with a spouse, or to openly have two Dads or two Moms? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The Israeli military has not gone to hell in a hand basket. They >> have >> >>>>> no problem with both genders or gay people being drafted and then >> >>>>> working >> >>>>> cohesively. It's the same as acceptance of blacks and women was >> >>>>> decades >> >>>>> ago. Much ado about nothing. I am certain our military will be >> >>>>> able >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> keep their minds focused on the tasks assigned. Anyone who is >> >>>>> qualified >> >>>>> should have the right to apply to defend our nation. Absolute 100% >> >>>>> heterosexuality should not be a requirement. Nothing will change. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Mustang >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Bigotry disguised as morality is still bigotry just as an outhouse >> with >> >>>>> marble columns is still an outhouse. - D.A. Ridgely (whomever he is) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------ >> >>>>> *From:* Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> >> >>>>> *To:* [email protected] >> >>>>> *Sent:* Sun, December 19, 2010 9:18:24 AM >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Historical Pictorial] Victory! Senate Repeals ‘Don’t >> >>>>> Ask, Don’t Tell’, Despite 31 Republican No Votes and John McCain's >> >>>>> Fillibuster Attempt >> >>>>> >> >>>>> No question, I see this issue from a different perspective than I >> >>>>> believe most do here in HP. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't see the DADT repeal as being all that significant, and >> although >> >>>>> I agree with Rob and his assessment, I also think that there is a >> >>>>> major >> >>>>> component to all of this, that Rob, or anyone else in the group has >> >>>>> touched >> >>>>> upon. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The military does not allow for ANYONE, and this will include >> >>>>> heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, to wear their sexuality >> >>>>> openly, >> >>>>> or to >> >>>>> broadcast their sexual likes or dislikes publicly. In other words, >> NO >> >>>>> ONE >> >>>>> in the military can be or will be identified by their sexual >> >>>>> proclivities or >> >>>>> sexual identification, which is a common factor in the Gay >> >>>>> community. >> >>>>> This >> >>>>> is where so many in the Gay community are mistaken. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The military will boot out a service member who is an admitted >> >>>>> adulterer. Service members who are into any type of >> >>>>> sado-masochistic activities and make them public will be summarily >> >>>>> discharged. Those service members who are into "swinging" and have >> >>>>> multiple >> >>>>> sexual partners, and who make that aspect of their lives public, >> >>>>> will >> >>>>> be >> >>>>> shown the door and discharged. All branches of the service will >> not >> >>>>> condone any member who bases his or her lifestyle upon their sexual >> >>>>> identiy. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Nothng has changed. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Just as important, the military does in fact have and embrace a >> "Macho" >> >>>>> image. This is requisite for combat. Yes, there are women in the >> >>>>> service >> >>>>> but not in combat arms. The lifestyle is tough, rugged and most of >> the >> >>>>> time >> >>>>> uncomfortable. The stereotypical Gay male will not be condoned. The >> >>>>> combat >> >>>>> units of the Army and Marines are all male and all the males talk >> about >> >>>>> doing their girl friends as they charge the enemy with cigars >> >>>>> hanging >> >>>>> out >> >>>>> their mouths; not penises. This is the image that our military >> >>>>> cultivates. It is good for morale, it is good for unit >> >>>>> cohesiveness, >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> most importantly, it is but one component of what makes our military >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> mightiest in the world. Again, this image is not going to change. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> >>>>> which is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical >> >>>>> media, >> >>>>> and discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled >> past! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For options and help, please visit the group at: >> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> >>>>> which is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical >> >>>>> media, >> >>>>> and discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled >> past! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For options and help, please visit the group at: >> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> >>>> which >> >>>> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, >> >>>> and >> >>>> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past! >> >>>> >> >>>> For options and help, please visit the group at: >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> - wayne. >> >>> >> >>> goto> http://waynes-nude-musicians.blogspot.com/ >> >>> http://blueguitar.tumblr.com/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> which >> >>> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, >> and >> >>> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past! >> >>> >> >>> For options and help, please visit the group at: >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> which >> >> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, >> and >> >> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past! >> >> >> >> For options and help, please visit the group at: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, >> > which >> is >> > the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, and >> > discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past! >> > >> > For options and help, please visit the group at: >> > http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral >> > >> >> >> -- >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. >> Have a great day, >> Tommy >> >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> > > > > -- > Mark M. Kahle H. > > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -- Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. Have a great day, Tommy -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
