Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Hi! I wonder how many lines of code they have to go through? Must be thousands of lines of code. Think of that! /A > On 24 Oct 2015, at 20:25, Robin wrote: > > That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) > & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox) > > Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but > they are steadily making improvements along the road > > > > On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they > offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view > > > I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" with the release of > iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8&Beyond many VoiceOver > "Bugs&Flaws" are steadily surfacing > > Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws were not "present" IN iOS9's > Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, > but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs&Flaws > > JustSayihng > At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote: >> "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader >> vendors are little." >> >> This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. >> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level >> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have >> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that >> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not >> reporting bugs. >> >> And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work >> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed >> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? >> >> I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But >> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who >> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make >> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. >> >> From E.T.'s Keyboard... >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> Many believe that we have been visited >> in the past. What if it were true? >> >> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the >>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme >>> importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess >>> ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about >>> all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product >>> does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding >>> accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is >>> out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, >>> there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that >>> there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. >>> The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they >>> have the will? >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w >> as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvi
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Very true. For example, Motorola makes the Nexus 6. Asus made the 7 inch Nexus 7 tablet. Chris. - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 2:46 PM Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out to other companies. Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin wrote: That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox) Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but they are steadily making improvements along the road On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" with the release of iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8&Beyond many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" are steadily surfacing Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws were not "present" IN iOS9's Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs&Flaws JustSayihng At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote: "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors are little." This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting bugs. And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w as untenable. -- You received this message because
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
It’s true: Google don’t even make the effort on Android. They make a much more concerted effort on ChromeOS, though, where (surprise!) the platform is used much more heavily in the educational environments for which a mandate of accessibility would incentivise progress. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
For what its worth, I'm always respectful to the people at Apple. I simply tell them the problems, and they pass it on. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Krister Ekstrom > wrote: > > Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making > business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly > i’ve been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here > and as long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved. > /Krister > >> 24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. : >> >> "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors >> are little." >> >> This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. >> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level >> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have >> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that >> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not >> reporting bugs. >> >> And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work >> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed >> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? >> >> I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But >> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who >> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make >> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. >> >> From E.T.'s Keyboard... >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> Many believe that we have been visited >> in the past. What if it were true? >> >>> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the >>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme >>> importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess >>> ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about >>> all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product >>> does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding >>> accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is >>> out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, >>> there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that >>> there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. >>> The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they >>> have the will? >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w >> as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Not meaning to be rude, but if you think this bug compares to editting text with a BT keyboard on Android, then I have some honest to god news for you. Editting with Android and a BT keyboard is phenominally disgusting! right now! Write me off list if you want more detail, but I assure you, editting on I O S is way! way! better. clgillan...@gmail.com Chris. - Original Message - From: "Devin Prater" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:29 AM Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO I know Apple can do well. I've seen it a lot in iOS. But we just have bugs upon bugs to deal with, and I'm just not sure what the quality control people do with accessibility. For example, right now there is a bug in iOS where if you use a bluetooth keyboard and arrow arround, and you hit a space, it won't say space at all. Sure, the smallest of bugs, but it still makes Apple look sloppy, just like Google. Google has had this problem with Docs for ages, but everywhere else Apple is wonderful, but they're starting to fail at accessibility. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy was untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Mary’s correct. Just because they brand them as the Google Nexus, doesn’t mean Google makes them. They’re made by HTC, Asus, etc. > On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out to > other companies. > Mary > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin wrote: >> >> That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) >> & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox) >> >> Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but >> they are steadily making improvements along the road >> >> >> >> On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they >> offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view >> >> >> I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" with the release of >> iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8&Beyond many VoiceOver >> "Bugs&Flaws" are steadily surfacing >> >> Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws were not "present" IN iOS9's >> Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, >> but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs&Flaws >> >> JustSayihng >> At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote: >>> "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader >>> vendors are little." >>> >>> This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. >>> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level >>> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have >>> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that >>> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not >>> reporting bugs. >>> >>> And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work >>> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed >>> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? >>> >>> I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But >>> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who >>> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make >>> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. >>> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard... >>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>> Many believe that we have been visited >>> in the past. What if it were true? >>> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote: > > I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. > They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency > and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the > latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off > to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple > products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. > > As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, > that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion > about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great > experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream > company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility > company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is > inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful > for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of > these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in > quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s > internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures > that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for > an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if > I did, it would o
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out to other companies. Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin wrote: > > That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) > & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox) > > Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but > they are steadily making improvements along the road > > > > On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they > offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view > > > I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" with the release of > iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8&Beyond many VoiceOver > "Bugs&Flaws" are steadily surfacing > > Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws were not "present" IN iOS9's > Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, > but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs&Flaws > > JustSayihng > At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote: >> "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader >> vendors are little." >> >> This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. >> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level >> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have >> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that >> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not >> reporting bugs. >> >> And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work >> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed >> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? >> >> I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But >> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who >> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make >> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. >> >> From E.T.'s Keyboard... >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> Many believe that we have been visited >> in the past. What if it were true? >> >>> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the >>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme >>> importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess >>> ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about >>> all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product >>> does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding >>> accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is >>> out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, >>> there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that >>> there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. >>> The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they >>> have the will? >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w >> as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
I've used Zoom in El Capitan all the time with no problem I could tell. Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates Louie P (Pete) Nalda MySpace.com/musikonalda Facebook.com/lpnalda Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda Twitter: @lpnalda > On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:31 PM, M. Taylor wrote: > > Hello Chris, > > I occasionally use the Zoom tool in OS X. It's very nice and works very > well. > > I've considered purchasing ZoomText for the Mac but, as yet, see no need to > do so as the native > Zoom tool meets all of my needs. > > Mark > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilland > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 3:18 AM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO > > You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover > to deal with. I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use > Zoom either on OSX, or on I O S. If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to > use it on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how > stable it is in El Capitan? Which oh, my! I just noticed something. In the > latest version that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan > correctly. Not really a major thing to be excited about, but still, it is > one thing fixed. > > That’s awesome! > > Chris. > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: >> >> I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility >> engineers, that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on >> not just Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the >> only accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect >> features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when >> they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so >> often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit >> ya where the good lord split ya. >> >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brian, >>> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top >>> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details >>> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or >>> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't >>> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch >>> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. >>> Mary >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. >>>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as >>>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple >>>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real >>>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan >>>> and VO I am not surprised. >>>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El >>>>> Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage >>>>> I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. >>>>> Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for >>>>> sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it >>>>> every time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the G
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Krister, You have said this before and the concept is lost on some people. It is so true tho, that if one wants to catch a fly, use honey, not vinegar. The people at Apple that we report bugs to are themselves not the developers but the conduit. We show them respect, we get respect in turn. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/24/2015 11:22 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly i’ve been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here and as long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved. /Krister 24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. : "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors are little." This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting bugs. And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to m
RE: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Hello Chris, I occasionally use the Zoom tool in OS X. It's very nice and works very well. I've considered purchasing ZoomText for the Mac but, as yet, see no need to do so as the native Zoom tool meets all of my needs. Mark -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilland Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 3:18 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover to deal with. I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use Zoom either on OSX, or on I O S. If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to use it on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how stable it is in El Capitan? Which oh, my! I just noticed something. In the latest version that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan correctly. Not really a major thing to be excited about, but still, it is one thing fixed. That’s awesome! Chris. > On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: > > I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, > that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just > Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only > accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect > features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when > they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so > often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit > ya where the good lord split ya. > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >> Hi Brian, >> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top >> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details >> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or >> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't >> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch >> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. >> Mary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. >>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as >>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple >>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real >>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan >>> and VO I am not surprised. >>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El >>>> Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage >>>> I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. >>>> Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for >>>> sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every >>>> time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiv
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox) Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but they are steadily making improvements along the road On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" with the release of iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8&Beyond many VoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws" are steadily surfacing Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs&Flaws were not "present" IN iOS9's Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs&Flaws JustSayihng At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote: "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors are little." This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting bugs. And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@go
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly i’ve been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here and as long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved. /Krister > 24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. : > > "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors > are little." > > This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. > Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of > responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the > responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that > accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting > bugs. > > And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work > together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed > rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? > > I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But > surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do > not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, > hire on as a liaison and good luck. > > From E.T.'s Keyboard... > ancient.ali...@icloud.com > Many believe that we have been visited > in the past. What if it were true? > > On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: >> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the >> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance >> of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only >> meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and >> outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it >> should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable >> people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether >> they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a >> laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well >> little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big >> companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the >> will? >> Mary >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: >>> >>> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may >>> not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and >>> importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest >>> products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his >>> engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, >>> then so can his underlings, past and future. >>> >>> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that >>> may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about >>> quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience >>> while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can >>> never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others >>> might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are >>> endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior >>> alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want >>> and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid >>> Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver >>> puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, >>> particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. >>> I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because >>> I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w > as untenable. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
"Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors are little." This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting bugs. And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests? I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote: For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w as untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the will? Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > > I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may > not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and > importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest > products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his > engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, > then so can his underlings, past and future. > > As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that > may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality > control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using > VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver > the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To > these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view > that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what > we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be > indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear > that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business > pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not > just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, > but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy > was untenable. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
I know Apple can do well. I've seen it a lot in iOS. But we just have bugs upon bugs to deal with, and I'm just not sure what the quality control people do with accessibility. For example, right now there is a bug in iOS where if you use a bluetooth keyboard and arrow arround, and you hit a space, it won't say space at all. Sure, the smallest of bugs, but it still makes Apple look sloppy, just like Google. Google has had this problem with Docs for ages, but everywhere else Apple is wonderful, but they're starting to fail at accessibility. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > > I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may > not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and > importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest > products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his > engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, > then so can his underlings, past and future. > > As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that > may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality > control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using > VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver > the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To > these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view > that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what > we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be > indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear > that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business > pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not > just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, > but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy > was untenable. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Notice though that El Capitan is not pronounced correctly on iOS 9.1, just released. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover to deal with. I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use Zoom either on OSX, or on I O S. If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to use it on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how stable it is in El Capitan? Which oh, my! I just noticed something. In the latest version that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan correctly. Not really a major thing to be excited about, but still, it is one thing fixed. That’s awesome! Chris. > On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: > > I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, > that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just > Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only > accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect > features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when > they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so > often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit > ya where the good lord split ya. > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >> Hi Brian, >> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top >> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details >> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or >> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't >> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch >> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. >> Mary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. >>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as >>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple >>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real >>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan >>> and VO I am not surprised. On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvi
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Very well put Sabahattin. Agreed with everything you said. Just because we use VO we should not be afraid to call Apple out on bugs especially when they keep getting worse and worse. Why should I feel I should have to settle for mediocrity with just because I am a VO user.I still feel Apple is doing it better than anyone, but there is definitely room for a lot of improvement. > On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > > I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may > not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and > importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest > products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his > engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, > then so can his underlings, past and future. > > As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that > may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality > control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using > VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver > the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To > these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view > that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what > we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be > indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear > that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business > pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not > just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, > but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy > was untenable. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance. Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers. If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future. As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality control. We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using VoiceOver. Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not. To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve. I am one of these people. I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy was untenable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Brian, That was not called for. If you are sick of it, use the delete key. From E.T.'s Keyboard... ancient.ali...@icloud.com Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were true? On 10/23/2015 9:39 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: Daniel learn to read before typing. Did I say VO is the only thing about accessibility, no. I am so sick of you and your don’t let the Lord split ya, you are such an idiot. Yeah, I called you an idiot. Any time anyone says something you do not agree with you there you go saying don’t let the Good Lord split you. If you do not agree with something someone says just ignore it and keep your mouth shut. Now on to the intelligent comment from Mary. Mary I should have phrased better. I was not talking about Tim Cook not knowing about accessibility as I agree I would not expect him to know that much about accessibility. I was talking about developers at Apple as I found out that no one or very few individuals who do all the programming at Apple have an understanding of what accessibility is, and no I am not just talking solely about VO, as VO is only one part of accessibility. The conversation I was having with a person who has worked for Apple for awhile had to do with accessibility including for the hearing impaired, mobility impaired, and more. On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: Hi Brian, I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. Mary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan and VO I am not surprised. On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.c
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Daniel learn to read before typing. Did I say VO is the only thing about accessibility, no. I am so sick of you and your don’t let the Lord split ya, you are such an idiot. Yeah, I called you an idiot. Any time anyone says something you do not agree with you there you go saying don’t let the Good Lord split you. If you do not agree with something someone says just ignore it and keep your mouth shut. Now on to the intelligent comment from Mary. Mary I should have phrased better. I was not talking about Tim Cook not knowing about accessibility as I agree I would not expect him to know that much about accessibility. I was talking about developers at Apple as I found out that no one or very few individuals who do all the programming at Apple have an understanding of what accessibility is, and no I am not just talking solely about VO, as VO is only one part of accessibility. The conversation I was having with a person who has worked for Apple for awhile had to do with accessibility including for the hearing impaired, mobility impaired, and more. > On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: > > I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, > that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just > Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only > accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect > features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when > they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so > often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit > ya where the good lord split ya. > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >> Hi Brian, >> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top >> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details >> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or >> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't >> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch >> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. >> Mary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. >>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as >>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple >>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real >>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan >>> and VO I am not surprised. On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroup
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. > On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > Hi Brian, > I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top > management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details > regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or not > the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't > really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch works, > that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. > Mary > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: >> >> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. >> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as >> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple >> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real >> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan and >> VO I am not surprised. >>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: >>> >>> My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, >>> staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the >>> El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness >>> is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of >>> choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. >>> But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Hi Brian, I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing. Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler wrote: > > Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. Captain > and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as > accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple > yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real > understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan and > VO I am not surprised. >> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: >> >> My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, >> staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the >> El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is >> a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice >> and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But >> other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan and VO I am not surprised. > On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > > My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, > staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the > El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is > a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice > and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But > other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience. At this stage I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great. Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every time I update. But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
Hi, The bug with text being cut off is slowly being squashed. For me, on my machine it happens but it doesn’t happen often anymore. It has been gradually better since the betas so i have full hope it will be totally fixed soon. /Krister > 22 okt. 2015 kl. 15:16 skrev Brian Fischler : > > Have not seen a lot of traction about the El Capitan update that dropped > yesterday. Is anything fixed in safari? When you use your arrows to go from > link to link are the next links consistently read? Anyone having issues with > VO stability in safari as this was a major issue for me and I rolled back to > Yosemite, and my computer is running great since doing a Time Machine restore > back to Yosemite. Will not be running out to update, but curious if the > Capitan experience is now better. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.