Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Now the From is

"Colin Stanners via Af" 

which I think is actually worse, since that's your name but not your email 
address, it's bound to cause problems.  Plus now we have the double replies, 
to get your actual email address to show up somewhere.


I think Mike is right, we need the standard list behavior, where From: has 
the sender's email, and both To: and Reply To: is the list address.  If that 
is something Amazon prohibits, it's an annoyance for sure and maybe a deal 
killer.



-Original Message- 
From: Colin Stanners via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:09 AM
Cc: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments


From what I understood, the issue was that Amazon didn't let you fake

(change from af@afmug.com) the from: value, likely a spam prevention
measure. But as Paul said, they will be more improvements when the tech
comes in and I'm sure this can be fixed.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Adam Moffett 
wrote:



Same way it's always been done.
From = original sender
Reply-to = list

That way when I click reply, you won't get the message twice...just like
you're about to get this one twice.


 I assume the issue then is how do yo indicate the original sender's 
e-mail

address?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af 
wrote:

 Not complaining, just a note. Can the reply-to be changed to just have 
AF

and not the original sender as well?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:43:02 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Guys,

We installed some updates in the middle of the night to fix the FROM
problem. There a couple tweaks that will be done today. My tech on the
project is now sleeping as we worked during the night.

PLEASE BE PATIENT.

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] Thanks to Paul and his Tech

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

But we should all be immune to this by now, it's a day in the life of a 
WISP.  Doesn't every day leave you feeling like you brought people a cool 
drink in the middle of the desert for less than it cost you, and their 
response is "what, no bendy straw?"


Plus there's the sidewalk supervisor effect.  It's human nature to watch and 
critique the efforts of the guy who actually stepped up and offered to do 
something.  Plus thanks to the Internet, you can be a sidewalk supervisor 
without even having to go outside and stand on the sidewalk.


So Paul, where's my bendy straw!!!


-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:20 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Thanks to Paul and his Tech

I just wanted to say a Thank you to Paul and his Tech(s) for the work
they've done for the list over the last couple days.  I'm willing to
take a deep breath while they work on the tweaks and get it sorted out.
In a few days we'll be back to our normal banter.

All of us have experienced the trade off of 'Do you answer the phone, or
keep working on the problem'.  It seems that's what Paul is doing.

Nate 

Re: [AFMUG] AFMUG web site???

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I believe you send an email to af-subscr...@afmug.com with the word 
subscribe in the Subject line.


-Original Message- 
From: cstanners--- via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:09 PM
To: Rick Kunze ; Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AFMUG web site???

Most of us have been here so long we don't remember how.

--Original Message--
From: Rick Kunze via Af
Sender: Af
To: Animal Farm
ReplyTo: Rick Kunze
ReplyTo: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] AFMUG web site???
Sent: Sep 16, 2014 11:14 AM

There is no AFMUG web site?

How do people subscribe to the list?

Rk

Re: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

What queue type?  Size?  Burst?
If you are using default-small still set to PFIFO and 10 packets, that might 
explain it.


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 4:26 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

Has anybody had trouble with Mikrotik queues in 6.x?
Specifically I'm seeing traffic limited to substantially less than the
configured max-limit.  I set 20M and get 15M, or I set 30M and actually
get 20M, and so forth.  I can disable the simple queue and get 140+Meg.
I found an MT forum post complaining of the same problem, but there was
no workaround or solution posted.  I'm wondering if somebody here
already saw this and figured it out.

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I looked at the headers of an email Bill sent via the old list and here is 
the From: header:


From: Bill Prince 



-Original Message- 
From: Paul McCall via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

The From address  wasn’t the sender on the old list either.

However, the old list said did say something like this...   af@afmug.com; on 
behalf of; Bill Prince   in the from.


Whereas the new list doesn’t show the .

For the moment, I believe that we will put that back in the body soon ... 
like this... --- [ Bill Prince  wrote ]





-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

I think he means that the From address isn't actually the sender of the 
e-mail.





- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:53:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Matt,

I looked at all the threads for the past few hours, and I see who it is 
coming from each time.


However, it does not show their email address... we can add that back into 
the body of the message I believe. That is how we had it yesterday, but the 
upgrade "undid" that.


Thanks!

Paul

-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Jenkins via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Unless you sign your name to the email, there isn't any way of seeing who 
its from.



On 09/16/2014 03:15 PM, Ryan Ray via Af wrote:

Looks way better now. Thanks Paul


On Tuesday, September 16, 2014, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:


*slow clap*




- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message - 


From: "Curtis Brotherton via Af" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:34:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

I have also fixed the annoying 'Reply To' issue, where it was replying to
the original poster AND the list.

It now only reply's to the list.
--

Curtis Brotherton
PDMNet
(772) 564-6800





-Original Message- 
From: Jaime Solorza via Af 
jaime%20solorza%20via%20af%20%3...@afmug.com %3e>>
Reply-to: >
To: Animal Farm %3e>>, Paul McCall <
pa...@pdmnet.net 
>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:09:24 +



Thanks

Jaime Solorza
On Sep 16, 2014 6:43 AM, "Paul McCall via Af" 

> wrote:


Guys,

We installed some updates in the middle of the night to fix the FROM
problem. There a couple tweaks that will be done today. My tech on the
project is now sleeping as we worked during the night.

PLEASE BE PATIENT.

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Not sure what you mean by "displayed FROM field".

My email client (WLM) displays what's in the header, I would assume that's 
typical.  What else would it display?


I was responding to your statement that the From address wasn't the sender 
on the old list either.  It was.



-Original Message- 
From: Paul McCall via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 8:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Yes, I agree that was in the header.  I was referring to function (displayed 
FROM field and the replied TO field).  Sorry if I wasn’t clear.  That was 
part of a longer conversation that explained the context


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

I looked at the headers of an email Bill sent via the old list and here is 
the From: header:


From: Bill Prince 



-Original Message-
From: Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

The From address  wasn’t the sender on the old list either.

However, the old list said did say something like this...   af@afmug.com; on
behalf of; Bill Prince   in the from.

Whereas the new list doesn’t show the .

For the moment, I believe that we will put that back in the body soon ...
like this... --- [ Bill Prince  wrote ]




-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

I think he means that the From address isn't actually the sender of the 
e-mail.





- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:53:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Matt,

I looked at all the threads for the past few hours, and I see who it is
coming from each time.

However, it does not show their email address... we can add that back into
the body of the message I believe. That is how we had it yesterday, but the
upgrade "undid" that.

Thanks!

Paul

-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Jenkins via Af

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Unless you sign your name to the email, there isn't any way of seeing who
its from.


On 09/16/2014 03:15 PM, Ryan Ray via Af wrote:

Looks way better now. Thanks Paul


On Tuesday, September 16, 2014, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:


*slow clap*




- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message - 


From: "Curtis Brotherton via Af" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:34:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

I have also fixed the annoying 'Reply To' issue, where it was replying to
the original poster AND the list.

It now only reply's to the list.
--

Curtis Brotherton
PDMNet
(772) 564-6800





-Original Message- 
From: Jaime Solorza via Af 
jaime%20solorza%20via%20af%20%3...@afmug.com %3e>>
Reply-to: >
To: Animal Farm %3e>>, Paul McCall <
pa...@pdmnet.net
<mailto:paul%20mccall%20%3cpa...@pdmnet.net
%3e>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:09:24 +



Thanks

Jaime Solorza
On Sep 16, 2014 6:43 AM, "Paul McCall via Af" 
<mailto:af@afmug.com >> wrote:


Guys,

We installed some updates in the middle of the night to fix the FROM
problem. There a couple tweaks that will be done today. My tech on the
project is now sleeping as we worked during the night.

PLEASE BE PATIENT.

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com<http://www.pdmnet.com><http://www.pdmnet.com/>
pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net 
<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net >

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Here are headers from last week (highlighting is mine).
References:  and  In-Reply-To:  would be relevant to threading.


Received: from mail.beehivebroadband.com [204.8.224.243] by 
imail.mssinternet.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD-12.4.1.9) id 929800025dfc8b62; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:52:24 -0500
Received: (qmail 15683 invoked by uid 89); 11 Sep 2014 18:51:55 -
Mailing-List: contact af-h...@afmug.com; run by ezmlm
Sender: 
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Delivered-To: mailing list af@afmug.com
Received: (qmail 15671 invoked by uid 7794); 11 Sep 2014 18:51:55 -
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0
tests=HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS
X-Spam-Check-By: mail.beehivebroadband.com
Received-SPF: pass (sf3.beehivebroadband.com: domain of 
SRS0=6pkiW6=6E=skylinebroadbandservice.com=part...@yourhostingaccount.com 
designates 65.254.254.74 as permitted sender)
X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Z6ZiHRhA c=1 sm=1 tr=0
a=fsJ80uyv01TBpq5N3xWxAg==:117 a=jmxVE3rWo+o6kYeGwW9Uqw==:17 a=pq4jwCgg:8
a=OF-CdTOG:8 a=97QQx2eq6K0A:10 a=tcnv99F1KMcA:10 a=puOJeTHPmWwA:10
a=iD4QqXFQzT0A:10 a=w33smXeKSvsA:10 a=_j2FLZox:8 a=EdW7D8OI:8
a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 a=918vi9aH:8
a=3j4BkbkP:8 a=1XWaLZrs:8 a=jU4qhlNg:8 a=JqEG_dyi:8
a=ixohVA9o:8 a=sDe8fDGb:8 a=lsOkIismvu66tJJsPH8A:9
a=piDQhgxJgW2RfFKZ:21 a=_srgjXhBaHq2B2Sh:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10
a=svvutLH48tAA:10 a=jQBHI5_av2IA:10 a=y9X0hehuHkoy9OGDsRAA:9
a=1x2pQSHD-ucFiWeX:21 a=AVUmX_ZZFlGzprIr:21 a=6_sdk2xqeEleR_IU:21
a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10
Message-ID: <5411ef1e.30...@skylinebroadbandservice.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:51:10 -0700
From: Bill Prince 
Organization: Skyline Broadband Service
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 
Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: af@afmug.com
References: <25155407.2360.1410459794293.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>
In-Reply-To: <25155407.2360.1410459794293.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="020309080201070808010708"
X-EN-UserInfo: dfa453bac296f6f3b4736d4866fea1e9:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27
X-EN-AuthUser: part...@skylinebroadbandservice.com
X-EN-OrigIP: 199.73.114.66
X-EN-OrigHost: mail.csi-sbs.com
X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mail.beehivebroadband.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Batch conversion of street address to lat/lon?
X-CTCH-RefID: 
str=0001.0A020204.5411EF4C.0205,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0
X-RCPT-TO: 
Status:  
X-UIDL: 710461225
X-IMail-ThreadID: 929800025dfc8b62
Old-X-EsetId: 37303A2912BAE762647463
X-EsetId: 37303A2912BAE762647463
X-EsetScannerBuild: 20110



-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:12 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments 

Here is an old header fragment:
Return-Path: 
Received: from mail.wirelessbeehive.com ([204.8.224.243])
by calendar.beehive.net
(using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher AES256-SHA (256 bits))
for ch...@calendar.beehive.net;
Tue, 24 Sep 2013 21:17:54 -0600
Received: (qmail 32188 invoked by uid 89); 25 Sep 2013 03:17:00 -
Delivered-To: ch...@beehive.net
Delivered-To: beehive.net-ch...@beehive.net
Received: (qmail 32008 invoked by uid 89); 25 Sep 2013 03:17:00 -
Mailing-List: contact af-h...@afmug.com; run by ezmlm
Sender: 
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Delivered-To: mailing list af@afmug.com




And a new header fragment:

Delivered-To: ch...@wbmfg.com
Received: by 10.112.64.4 with SMTP id k4csp64901lbs;
Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.224.4.72 with SMTP id 8mr26227257qaq.79.1410962995003;
Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: 
<014883f2aeed-2127d522-64f9-496c-9ac2-762b86e8cd6e-000...@amazonses.com>
Received: from a9-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a9-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com. 
[54.240.9.110])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
w106si10295988qgd.98.2014.09.17.07.09.54
for 
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of 
014883f2aeed-2127d522-64f9-496c-9ac2-762b86e8cd6e-000...@amazonses.com 
designates 54.240.9.110 as permitted sender) client-ip=54.240.9.110;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
   spf=pass (google.com: domain of 
014883f2aeed-2127d522-64f9-496c-9ac2-762b86e8cd6e-000...@amazonses.com 
designates 54.240.9.110 as permitted sender) 
smtp.mail=014883f2aeed-2127d522-64f9-496c-9ac2-762b86e8cd6e-000...@amazonses.com;
   dk

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

That's strange, the sent mail was in HTML format with highlighting, but what 
came back was plain text.  Does Amazon not allow HTML?  Or did I mess up? 
Or is a listserv option set to convert everything to plain text?


-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Here are headers from last week (highlighting is mine).
References:  and  In-Reply-To:  would be relevant to threading.


Received: from mail.beehivebroadband.com [204.8.224.243] by 
imail.mssinternet.com with ESMTP

 (SMTPD-12.4.1.9) id 929800025dfc8b62; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:52:24 -0500
Received: (qmail 15683 invoked by uid 89); 11 Sep 2014 18:51:55 -
Mailing-List: contact af-h...@afmug.com; run by ezmlm
Sender: 
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:af@afmug.com>
List-Help: <mailto:af-h...@afmug.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:af-unsubscr...@afmug.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:af-subscr...@afmug.com>
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Delivered-To: mailing list af@afmug.com
Received: (qmail 15671 invoked by uid 7794); 11 Sep 2014 18:51:55 -
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0
   tests=HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS
X-Spam-Check-By: mail.beehivebroadband.com
Received-SPF: pass (sf3.beehivebroadband.com: domain of 
SRS0=6pkiW6=6E=skylinebroadbandservice.com=part...@yourhostingaccount.com 
designates 65.254.254.74 as permitted sender)

X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Z6ZiHRhA c=1 sm=1 tr=0
a=fsJ80uyv01TBpq5N3xWxAg==:117 a=jmxVE3rWo+o6kYeGwW9Uqw==:17 
a=pq4jwCgg:8

a=OF-CdTOG:8 a=97QQx2eq6K0A:10 a=tcnv99F1KMcA:10 a=puOJeTHPmWwA:10
a=iD4QqXFQzT0A:10 a=w33smXeKSvsA:10 a=_j2FLZox:8 a=EdW7D8OI:8
a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 
a=918vi9aH:8

a=3j4BkbkP:8 a=1XWaLZrs:8 a=jU4qhlNg:8 a=JqEG_dyi:8
a=ixohVA9o:8 a=sDe8fDGb:8 a=lsOkIismvu66tJJsPH8A:9
a=piDQhgxJgW2RfFKZ:21 a=_srgjXhBaHq2B2Sh:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10
a=svvutLH48tAA:10 a=jQBHI5_av2IA:10 a=y9X0hehuHkoy9OGDsRAA:9
a=1x2pQSHD-ucFiWeX:21 a=AVUmX_ZZFlGzprIr:21 a=6_sdk2xqeEleR_IU:21
a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10
Message-ID: <5411ef1e.30...@skylinebroadbandservice.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:51:10 -0700
From: Bill Prince 
Organization: Skyline Broadband Service
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 
Thunderbird/24.6.0

MIME-Version: 1.0
To: af@afmug.com
References: <25155407.2360.1410459794293.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>
In-Reply-To: <25155407.2360.1410459794293.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="020309080201070808010708"
X-EN-UserInfo: 
dfa453bac296f6f3b4736d4866fea1e9:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27

X-EN-AuthUser: part...@skylinebroadbandservice.com
X-EN-OrigIP: 199.73.114.66
X-EN-OrigHost: mail.csi-sbs.com
X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mail.beehivebroadband.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Batch conversion of street address to lat/lon?
X-CTCH-RefID: 
str=0001.0A020204.5411EF4C.0205,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0

X-RCPT-TO: 
Status:
X-UIDL: 710461225
X-IMail-ThreadID: 929800025dfc8b62
Old-X-EsetId: 37303A2912BAE762647463
X-EsetId: 37303A2912BAE762647463
X-EsetScannerBuild: 20110



-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Here is an old header fragment:
Return-Path: 
Received: from mail.wirelessbeehive.com ([204.8.224.243])
   by calendar.beehive.net
   (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher AES256-SHA (256 bits))
   for ch...@calendar.beehive.net;
   Tue, 24 Sep 2013 21:17:54 -0600
Received: (qmail 32188 invoked by uid 89); 25 Sep 2013 03:17:00 -
Delivered-To: ch...@beehive.net
Delivered-To: beehive.net-ch...@beehive.net
Received: (qmail 32008 invoked by uid 89); 25 Sep 2013 03:17:00 -
Mailing-List: contact af-h...@afmug.com; run by ezmlm
Sender: 
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:af@afmug.com>
List-Help: <mailto:af-h...@afmug.com>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

That back connector looks like a challenge to weatherproof.  Do they give 
you some kind of cover to go over the whole back of the feed assembly?  If 
they did, I might just not bother taping the N connectors.


Did I see somewhere where the next generation will be integrated anyway, 
with no jumpers?



-Original Message- 
From: Greg Osborn via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

 We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type connections.
It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant.  All the
specs say H&V. 

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Before reporting delayed email, always check the headers to see where the 
delay occurred.  Also if your mailserver does greylisting, it's possible 
Amazon uses multiple IP addresses and you are not putting it in your 
whitelist.  FWIW, delay is NOT something I've seen, the emails seem to come 
through within about a second.



-Original Message- 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments


BTW - sent 9:53 pm.  Received 10:13 am.

 - Original Message - 
 From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af

 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments



 Often.  Very often.  I regularly search keywords.  Over the weekend i was 
looking at fiber conversations from when people started running fiber 2-3-4 
years ago.  I use it often.  Did I say often? :)


 Same with our business - i am regularly referencing accounts and info from 
pre-powercode days.  Using an email search
 Granted on windows mail it can take a while.  There are two searches - one 
is an "indexed" search which is supposed to be quick but i've found is only 
about 20% accurate.  I'll typically use it first.  The advanced search 
(ctrl-f i think it is) will find every friggin thing ; sometimes it will 
even find false matches.


 I often find myself finding one or two hits that are "relevant", i'll then 
read that message, then read the whole thread by subject.



   - Original Message - 
   From: Adam Moffett via Af

   To: af@afmug.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:26 AM
   Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments


   How often do you guys go back and find something from your 40-90 gigs of
   email?  When you did need something, how successful were you at finding
   it?  I gave up trying to keep everything after realizing that I almost
   never wanted anything older than 6 months, and if I did then it took an
   inordinate amount of effort to find it.

   I sort important things into foldersif I didn't sort it then it
   probably wasn't important. Everything in my inbox older than 6 months
   gets deleted.

   

   > On Wed September 17 2014 08:55, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
   >> Windows Live Mail.  It was what replaced Outlook Express.
   >> I like it for most things.  But nothing is very good at gracefully 
handling

   >> my 40 GB mail archive.
   >>
   > LOL, that has been my issue for a few years now.  Have just over 92 GB
   > in my Kmail, close to 800 folders (many nested) and the _only_ mail
   > agent I have found that deals with it is Kmail (Linux KDE).
   > 

[AFMUG] HTML format?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Is anyone receiving formatted messages?  I'm seeing everything in plain 
text.


I did set up a new account in my email client for this list, but I don't 
think I messed up the settings and selected view in plain text. 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I am guessing if anything, you will see Canopy (or at least 450) sync with 
ePMP/320.  Seems like it would be easier to make the FPGA based radio use a 
longer frame than to make the Atheros based radio use a shorter frame.  I'm 
sure they already tried that.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

George, you ought to be all over that new Proxim WORP stuff like white
on rice.   They claim that it will sync with Canopy.


bp

On 9/17/2014 10:41 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
Is that 2.4 or 5GHz? A couple weeks ago someone asked why the 2.4 AP 
sector is slant and the integrated SMs are H/V. Cambium responded with an 
explanation, something about the SM detecting phases and doing its thing.


Definitely looks like a Laird/Pac feed design. That has to be a pain to 
weather seal.


When they get these things to sync with Canopy and get the PTP latency 
down, then I'll buy some.


On 9/17/2014 9:22 AM, Greg Osborn via Af wrote:

   We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type 
connections.

It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant. All the
specs say H&V.

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

With a name like WORP, it's got to be good!


-Original Message- 
From: Bob Hrbek (Loganet) via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

Is the WORP stuff any good?


On Sep 17, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

I am guessing if anything, you will see Canopy (or at least 450) sync with 
ePMP/320.  Seems like it would be easier to make the FPGA based radio use 
a longer frame than to make the Atheros based radio use a shorter frame. 
I'm sure they already tried that.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

George, you ought to be all over that new Proxim WORP stuff like white
on rice.   They claim that it will sync with Canopy.


bp

On 9/17/2014 10:41 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
Is that 2.4 or 5GHz? A couple weeks ago someone asked why the 2.4 AP 
sector is slant and the integrated SMs are H/V. Cambium responded with an 
explanation, something about the SM detecting phases and doing its thing.


Definitely looks like a Laird/Pac feed design. That has to be a pain to 
weather seal.


When they get these things to sync with Canopy and get the PTP latency 
down, then I'll buy some.


On 9/17/2014 9:22 AM, Greg Osborn via Af wrote:

  We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type 
connections.

It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant. All the
specs say H&V.

Re: [AFMUG] HTML format?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I tried sending a test email with an animated GIF / smiley, and the entire 
email seems to have been blocked or set aside for moderation or something.


Hm.



-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] HTML format?

Nope, no HTML.




- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:17:35 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] HTML format?

Testing...




- 
Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message - 


From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:39:43 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] HTML format?

Is anyone receiving formatted messages? I'm seeing everything in plain
text.

I did set up a new account in my email client for this list, but I don't
think I messed up the settings and selected view in plain text.

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Received here at 11:59:41.

Jay, I would look for something specific to your situation.

Either Amazon just doesn't like you, or if you are doing greylisting, I 
would look at that as a possible cause.


Greylisting defers delivery on purpose, forces the sending MTA to queue the 
message, and usually relies on the next attempt looking exactly the same 
including source IP.  Amazon may not use the same source IP, it may come 
from a pool of MTAs.  Big systems that do greylisting may incorporate a 
mechanism to learn what IP ranges belong to the same organization, but you 
may not have that level of sophistication.


Or probably I'm completely out in left field, but I can't think why I would 
get every single email within a second or so, yet yours are being delayed 
hours.


My mailserver is on a Rube Goldberg connection due to a previous storm (it's 
at my house on an EoIP tunnel over AT&T U-Verse), so it's not like I have a 
particularly speedy setup.



-Original Message- 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE



written 11:59 am , received 3:22 pm
(Fyi)

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mathew Howard via Af

 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:59 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 I don't like fried pickles.
 
 From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of James Howard via Af 
[af@afmug.com]

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:30 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

 It seems to be bordering on libelous for someone to accuse us of not being 
able to stay on topic.


 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller via 
Af

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:16 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 m. fried pickles.

 - Original Message -
 From: Jay Weekley via Af
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 I like pickles. Does anyone else?

 Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
 >
 > Test messages here never get ignored. Expect at least 4 replies saying
 > whether you passed or failed and possibly a hijack that turns the test
 > thread into some other conversation.
 > (maybe this one is the hijack)
 >
 >>
 >> Paul McCall, Pres.
 >> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
 >> 658 Old Dixie Highway
 >> Vero Beach, FL 32962
 >> 772-564-6800 office
 >> 772-473-0352 cell
 >> www.pdmnet.com
 >> 
pa...@pdmnet.net

 >>
 >
 >
 >

 
 Total Control Panel

 Login


 To: 
ja...@litewire.net


 From: 
0148842f45a9-e2dfdede-8f87-4a01-83b3-7d51bc808b65-000...@amazonses.com



 Message Score: 2

 High (60): Pass

 My Spam Blocking Level: High

 Medium (75): Pass


 Low (90): Pass

 Block 
this sender / 
Block 
this sender enterprise-wide


 Block 
amazonses.com / 
Block 
amazonses.com enterprise-wide




 This message was delivered because the content filter score did not exceed 
your filter level.





 = 

Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to this....cellular

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

What I think the cellcos (especially Sprint) do badly is not explain to the 
people with 3G devices that they need to upgrade them to 4G for the higher 
speed, even if that loses you a grandfathered plan.  I believe the 
transition to 4G/LTE has actually made 3G perform worse.  I'm not sure why, 
maybe they take spectrum away from 3G at the towers and give it to 4G.  But 
people don't understand this, all they see is their speeds are in the 
toilet, so the last thing they are going to do is buy a new device and sign 
a new contract with the company that's responsible for their crappy service.


At a minimum, they should be informing their customers of this.  Like we 
sometimes have to tell people with a 10 year old computer and a 10 year old 
router that they need to upgrade.  But really, they should have some kind of 
program to market the 4G upgrade to existing 3G customers with come kind of 
discount that encourages people to upgrade and stay customers.


Instead, I think they lose customers to another cellco (or to a WISP!), 
because the customer thinks the cellco just has crappy service.




-Original Message- 
From: Chris Wright via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular

You'd wind up pissing off a lot of legacy users and creating more bad press 
than it's worth.


Chris Wright
Velociter Wireless

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+chris=velociter@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
CBB - Jay Fuller via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular


Ok, so, when you have an "unlimited card" and you're lucky to never have 
purchased another device, and it's still unlimited, why can't / why DOESN'T 
the cellular company just end your unlimited option and force you onto 
something else?


Is it a billing issue?  Something their systems can't handle?   I've always 
wondered why that is.


Surely it's not something "legal", unless it's the fact you signed a 
contract stating this is the plan i want, and they can't change the plan off 
what you signed up for?


(hey! that makes sense...actually)

Thoughts?

I guess they could say we're no longer offering that plan and you must sign 
up for a new plan or your phone will be terminated?

Too many people on old plans to take that risk?

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

George, are the SMTP connections to your mailserver using TLS?  The reason I 
ask has to do with SMTP connection caching.

http://www.postfix.org/CONNECTION_CACHE_README.html


-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

In my case, it's not exactly greylisting, but something is happening on
Amazon's end that causing them to terminate SMTP sessions too early or
something like that. Overloading perhaps? Them not sending QUIT seems to
be the issue. RFCs say that's how you end a session. So whatever,
delayed. Meh. I'm not changing my end because we already get enough
crap. And because this is Exim & SpamAssassin on cPanel/WHM, almost
everything happens at the initial SMTP connection: RBL checks, host rate
limit checks, etc. As I said before, this wasn't happening when AF was
on Beehive's servers and it's not happening with the WISPA lists.

I'm not trying to be bitchy or nitpicky, just trying to help Paul and
Curtis understand what's happening from my POV.

On 9/17/2014 5:20 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Received here at 11:59:41.

Jay, I would look for something specific to your situation.

Either Amazon just doesn't like you, or if you are doing greylisting, I 
would look at that as a possible cause.


Greylisting defers delivery on purpose, forces the sending MTA to queue 
the message, and usually relies on the next attempt looking exactly the 
same including source IP.  Amazon may not use the same source IP, it may 
come from a pool of MTAs.  Big systems that do greylisting may incorporate 
a mechanism to learn what IP ranges belong to the same organization, but 
you may not have that level of sophistication.


Or probably I'm completely out in left field, but I can't think why I 
would get every single email within a second or so, yet yours are being 
delayed hours.


My mailserver is on a Rube Goldberg connection due to a previous storm 
(it's at my house on an EoIP tunnel over AT&T U-Verse), so it's not like I 
have a particularly speedy setup.



-Original Message- From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE



written 11:59 am , received 3:22 pm
(Fyi)

 - Original Message -  From: Mathew Howard via Af
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:59 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 I don't like fried pickles.
 
 From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of James Howard via Af 
[af@afmug.com]

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:30 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

 It seems to be bordering on libelous for someone to accuse us of not 
being able to stay on topic.


 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller via 
Af

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:16 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 m. fried pickles.

 - Original Message -
 From: Jay Weekley via Af
 To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 I like pickles. Does anyone else?

 Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
 >
 > Test messages here never get ignored. Expect at least 4 replies saying
 > whether you passed or failed and possibly a hijack that turns the test
 > thread into some other conversation.
 > (maybe this one is the hijack)
 >
 >>
 >> Paul McCall, Pres.
 >> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
 >> 658 Old Dixie Highway
 >> Vero Beach, FL 32962
 >> 772-564-6800 office
 >> 772-473-0352 cell
 >> www.pdmnet.com<http://www.pdmnet.com/><http://www.pdmnet.com/%3e>
 >> 
pa...@pdmnet.net<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net><mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net><mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net%3e>

 >>
 >
 >
 >

 
 Total Control Panel

 Login<https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net>


 To: 
ja...@litewire.net<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net>


 From: 
0148842f45a9-e2dfdede-8f87-4a01-83b3-7d51bc808b65-000...@amazonses.com<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=2603669244&domain=litewire.net>



 Message Score: 2

 High (60): Pass

 My Spam Blocking Level: High

 Medium (75): Pass


 Low (90): Pass


Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-address=1&rID=242260993&aID=2603669244&domain=litewire.net> 
this sender / 
Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&ent=1&bl-sender-address=1&rID=242260993&aID=2603669244&domain=litewire.net> 
this sender enterprise-wide



Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-domai

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I was thinking if the connection is using TLS, then connection caching 
wouldn't work anyway.  But it seems I was misreading that Postfix document, 
it seems to say Postfix would not re-use the connection, but another MTA 
with a different software architecture maybe could.



-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Yes, TLS, and it has been this way since like.. ever. More years than I
can remember anyway. What is/was Beehive running on, Qmail? Looking
through my logs, coming from Beehive it was TLS as well. Coming from
WISPA is TLS, too. What MTA is WISPA running?

The Postfix TLS/connection caching thing could be the problem. Maybe
they're trying to hold the session open to deliver more messages? That
seems like a Postfix problem to me. But that doesn't make sense because
in all (normal) instances (WISPA, Beehive AF, Amazon AF), messages are
coming in for each recipient (me and Mike are on the same lists)
separately. Separate message ID and SMTP session for each recipient per
message. The only thing different with Amazon is they seem to "forget"
to send a QUIT once in a while which Exim on my end says violates RFC,
so whichever Amazon outbound MX it happens to be at the moment gets
connection rate limited for bad commands.

I see tons and tons of connection rate limiting 'because of notquit:
command-timeout' in my log all from obvious spam hosts, besides the
Amazon SES hosts anyway. So I do not want to ignore bad commands for
obvious reasons.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. But other messages for other
Amazon services is doing the same thing. It's not just this list. It's
Amazon. Maybe they're dropping the connection early without sending a
QUIT because they are configured for impatience? I don't know.

On 9/17/2014 5:48 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
George, are the SMTP connections to your mailserver using TLS?  The reason 
I ask has to do with SMTP connection caching.

http://www.postfix.org/CONNECTION_CACHE_README.html


-Original Message- From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

In my case, it's not exactly greylisting, but something is happening on
Amazon's end that causing them to terminate SMTP sessions too early or
something like that. Overloading perhaps? Them not sending QUIT seems to
be the issue. RFCs say that's how you end a session. So whatever,
delayed. Meh. I'm not changing my end because we already get enough
crap. And because this is Exim & SpamAssassin on cPanel/WHM, almost
everything happens at the initial SMTP connection: RBL checks, host rate
limit checks, etc. As I said before, this wasn't happening when AF was
on Beehive's servers and it's not happening with the WISPA lists.

I'm not trying to be bitchy or nitpicky, just trying to help Paul and
Curtis understand what's happening from my POV.

On 9/17/2014 5:20 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Received here at 11:59:41.

Jay, I would look for something specific to your situation.

Either Amazon just doesn't like you, or if you are doing greylisting, I 
would look at that as a possible cause.


Greylisting defers delivery on purpose, forces the sending MTA to queue 
the message, and usually relies on the next attempt looking exactly the 
same including source IP.  Amazon may not use the same source IP, it may 
come from a pool of MTAs.  Big systems that do greylisting may 
incorporate a mechanism to learn what IP ranges belong to the same 
organization, but you may not have that level of sophistication.


Or probably I'm completely out in left field, but I can't think why I 
would get every single email within a second or so, yet yours are being 
delayed hours.


My mailserver is on a Rube Goldberg connection due to a previous storm 
(it's at my house on an EoIP tunnel over AT&T U-Verse), so it's not like 
I have a particularly speedy setup.



-Original Message- From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE



written 11:59 am , received 3:22 pm
(Fyi)

 - Original Message -  From: Mathew Howard via Af
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:59 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE


 I don't like fried pickles.
 
 From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of James Howard via Af 
[af@afmug.com]

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:30 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

 It seems to be bordering on libelous for someone to accuse us of not 
being able to stay on topic.


 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller via 
Af

 Sent: Wednesday, 

Re: [AFMUG] PS4 troubles

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I once had exactly that experience with one specific Xbox Live game.  It 
didn't help that customer's son added me to a conference with a Microsoft 
Xbox support rep who kept going on and on about how he sees this all the 
time and the reason is the ISP sucks.



-Original Message- 
From: Patrick Wheeland via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PS4 troubles

Is the public IP being assigned to their radio which is then performing NAT
or are you putting the public IP on their router?  It sounds like you're
assigning it to the radio.  We often times have trouble with this when it
comes to certain games and have to bridge the radio and assign the public
to their router.  Once that's done, the problem goes away.

-Patrick


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Jerry Head via Af  wrote:


So, a customer's son calls me tonight and asks "did you change anything on
Monday?"
"No"
He then tells me that he has not been able to play any PS4 games online
since Monday; all other internet services are working, Netflix,Hulu, 
email,

web browsing etc.
We have had some issues in the past with game consoles not liking out NAT
(double, or "strict" they call it)
 In these cases we typically rent a public static IP placed on their CPE
with their home router in the DMZ.
This has always solved the issue beforedid not work tonight 
apparently.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what may be going on here?

Thanks!

Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to this....cellular

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Back 3 years ago, I got one of Verizon's first 4G phones, actually the one 
they rated as the top of the line at the time.  Strangely, at the store they 
kept trying to talk me into an iPhone even though it was only 3G.  It turned 
out to be a very buggy phone, lots of problems even with voice calls, plus 
poor battery life.  When I upgraded to a Motorola phone a year ago and 
mentioned what a piece of crap the previous one had been, they acted like 
that was our first generation of 4G phones, you expected it to be a piece of 
crap, right?  I suspect the original store either knew you never buy the 
first generation of hardware that supports some new cellular technology, or 
maybe they were already experiencing a high return rate.




-Original Message- 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular


Agree.  I waited over a year after 4GLTE launched here to get a 4g phone and 
when I did, it came off Ebay.  Still have that phone...used PDAnet to tether 
the old phone ; went a different route on this phone cause I knew i'd be 
exceeding USB speeds pretty easily. :)


 - Original Message ----- 
 From: Ken Hohhof via Af

 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular


 What I think the cellcos (especially Sprint) do badly is not explain to 
the

 people with 3G devices that they need to upgrade them to 4G for the higher
 speed, even if that loses you a grandfathered plan.  I believe the
 transition to 4G/LTE has actually made 3G perform worse.  I'm not sure 
why,
 maybe they take spectrum away from 3G at the towers and give it to 4G. 
But

 people don't understand this, all they see is their speeds are in the
 toilet, so the last thing they are going to do is buy a new device and 
sign
 a new contract with the company that's responsible for their crappy 
service.


 At a minimum, they should be informing their customers of this.  Like we
 sometimes have to tell people with a 10 year old computer and a 10 year 
old
 router that they need to upgrade.  But really, they should have some kind 
of
 program to market the 4G upgrade to existing 3G customers with come kind 
of

 discount that encourages people to upgrade and stay customers.

 Instead, I think they lose customers to another cellco (or to a WISP!),
 because the customer thinks the cellco just has crappy service.



 -Original Message- 
 From: Chris Wright via Af

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:20 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular

 You'd wind up pissing off a lot of legacy users and creating more bad 
press

 than it's worth.

 Chris Wright
 Velociter Wireless

 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+chris=velociter@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
 CBB - Jay Fuller via Af
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:52 PM
 To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
 Subject: [AFMUG] i've never found an answer to thiscellular


 Ok, so, when you have an "unlimited card" and you're lucky to never have
 purchased another device, and it's still unlimited, why can't / why 
DOESN'T

 the cellular company just end your unlimited option and force you onto
 something else?

 Is it a billing issue?  Something their systems can't handle?   I've 
always

 wondered why that is.

 Surely it's not something "legal", unless it's the fact you signed a
 contract stating this is the plan i want, and they can't change the plan 
off

 what you signed up for?

 (hey! that makes sense...actually)

 Thoughts?

 I guess they could say we're no longer offering that plan and you must 
sign

 up for a new plan or your phone will be terminated?
 Too many people on old plans to take that risk?

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

People are always telling us what to do.  Have a nice day!  Have a good one! 
Enjoy!  Y'all come back now!



-Original Message- 
From: James Howard via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

There you go telling us what to do again!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
McCall via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

IGNORE - unless you want a job

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I was thinking if the connection is using TLS, then connection caching 
wouldn't work anyway. But it seems I was misreading that Postfix document, 
it seems to say Postfix would not re-use the connection, but another MTA 
with a different software architecture maybe could.



-Original Message-
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Yes, TLS, and it has been this way since like.. ever. More years than I can 
remember anyway. What is/was Beehive running on, Qmail? Looking through my 
logs, coming from Beehive it was TLS as well. Coming from WISPA is TLS, too. 
What MTA is WISPA running?


The Postfix TLS/connection caching thing could be the problem. Maybe they're 
trying to hold the session open to deliver more messages? That seems like a 
Postfix problem to me. But that doesn't make sense because in all (normal) 
instances (WISPA, Beehive AF, Amazon AF), messages are coming in for each 
recipient (me and Mike are on the same lists) separately. Separate message 
ID and SMTP session for each recipient per message. The only thing different 
with Amazon is they seem to "forget"
to send a QUIT once in a while which Exim on my end says violates RFC, so 
whichever Amazon outbound MX it happens to be at the moment gets connection 
rate limited for bad commands.


I see tons and tons of connection rate limiting 'because of notquit:
command-timeout' in my log all from obvious spam hosts, besides the Amazon 
SES hosts anyway. So I do not want to ignore bad commands for obvious 
reasons.


I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. But other messages for other Amazon 
services is doing the same thing. It's not just this list. It's Amazon. 
Maybe they're dropping the connection early without sending a QUIT because 
they are configured for impatience? I don't know.


On 9/17/2014 5:48 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

George, are the SMTP connections to your mailserver using TLS? The
reason I ask has to do with SMTP connection caching.
http://www.postfix.org/CONNECTION_CACHE_README.html


-Original Message- From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)
via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

In my case, it's not exactly greylisting, but something is happening
on Amazon's end that causing them to terminate SMTP sessions too early
or something like that. Overloading perhaps? Them not sending QUIT
seems to be the issue. RFCs say that's how you end a session. So
whatever, delayed. Meh. I'm not changing my end because we already get
enough crap. And because this is Exim & SpamAssassin on cPanel/WHM,
almost everything happens at the initial SMTP connection: RBL checks,
host rate limit checks, etc. As I said before, this wasn't happening
when AF was on Beehive's servers and it's not happening with the WISPA 
lists.


I'm not trying to be bitchy or nitpicky, just trying to help Paul and
Curtis understand what's happening from my POV.

On 9/17/2014 5:20 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Received here at 11:59:41.

Jay, I would look for something specific to your situation.

Either Amazon just doesn't like you, or if you are doing greylisting,
I would look at that as a possible cause.

Greylisting defers delivery on purpose, forces the sending MTA to
queue the message, and usually relies on the next attempt looking
exactly the same including source IP. Amazon may not use the same
source IP, it may come from a pool of MTAs. Big systems that do
greylisting may incorporate a mechanism to learn what IP ranges
belong to the same organization, but you may not have that level of 
sophistication.


Or probably I'm completely out in left field, but I can't think why I
would get every single email within a second or so, yet yours are
being delayed hours.

My mailserver is on a Rube Goldberg connection due to a previous
storm (it's at my house on an EoIP tunnel over AT&T U-Verse), so it's
not like I have a particularly speed

Re: [AFMUG] i need....people finder! AGE lookup by street?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I find it interesting that in this age of big data for sale, you can 
purchase a mailing list and up to 30% of the houses won't be on the list, 
and up to 5% will come back undeliverable.


I think the information is still heavily based on landline phone records, 
and that data is fast becoming useless.  The next big source is probably 
property sale records.


But if I take a mailing list and sort it by street, then drive that street, 
it's amazing how many potential customers we are missing.


Out in the country, we get the people with no mail receptacle, they have a 
PO box in town.  And with just a cellphone, they stay somewhat invisible. 
Perhaps on purpose, to avoid debt collectors and process servers and ex 
spouses.



-Original Message- 
From: That One Guy via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] i needpeople finder! AGE lookup by street?

get a job at a collection agency, they have nexus access, you can find out
the age of their neighbors dog 5 years ago through those systems

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:


Switchboard allows you to lookup by address, but it must be a complete
address.

We live on a private road with 9 homes total on it.  About half of them
come up with legitimate residences.  The other half are "not found".  One
had the actual residents, and a couple of other names that came from outer
space (no one I've ever heard of).

When I mapped the address, it was only off by 2 or 3 miles.

bp


On 9/18/2014 7:10 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:



This used to be out there somewhere.  I could put in a street name under
"reverse lookup" or "address lookup" and i'd get names of everyone on a
street - as well as age.

Looked about 15 minutes last night, couldn't find it.  Really need it
againsomething like intellus, or whitepages.com, or something like
that

anyone?  anyone? :)








--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

At least your email came through, minus the image.
When I have tried to send emails with inline images, the whole email has 
just silently disappeared into the void.
I was wondering what was going to happen with the people who have images 
(like logos) in their signatures.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Friggin, fraggin no HTML got me again...

bp

On 9/18/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

bp

On 9/18/2014 8:21 AM, James Howard via Af wrote:

I don't want a job!   I'd like to retire.. unfortunately the
lottery ticket I bought this weekend didn't pan out so I'm kind of
stuck.  I think Florida is a nice place to visit but I can't see
myself living there. Besides, I don't know how far down your sand
goes but there are lots of winters when we have WAY more than 2 feet
of snow!  The winter before last I got the plow truck stuck when I
was plowing our front sidewalk.  The snow was over the windows on
both sides of the truck and I had a pile about 5 feet high in front
that I was trying to push.

You just can't have that kind of fun on sand!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

James,

OK, you responded, thus you must want a job with PDMNet / Florida
Broadband !

The pay isn't great, but the work hours are long :) And, when most
people have two feet of snow, we have two feet in the sand on the
beach :)

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
James Howard via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

There you go telling us what to do again!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

IGNORE - unless you want a job

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:06 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I was thinking if the connection is using TLS, then connection
caching wouldn't work anyway. But it seems I was misreading that
Postfix document, it seems to say Postfix would not re-use the
connection, but another MTA with a different software architecture
maybe could.


-Original Message-
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Yes, TLS, and it has been this way since like.. ever. More years than
I can remember anyway. What is/was Beehive running on, Qmail? Looking
through my logs, coming from Beehive it was TLS as well. Coming from
WISPA is TLS, too. What MTA is WISPA running?

The Postfix TLS/connection caching thing could be the problem. Maybe
they're trying to hold the session open to deliver more messages?
That seems like a Postfix problem to me. But that doesn't make sense
because in all (normal) instances (WISPA, Beehive AF, Amazon AF),
messages are coming in for each recipient (me and Mike are on the
same lists) separately. Separate message ID and SMTP session for each
recipient per message. The only thing different with Amazon is they
seem to "forget"
to send a QUIT once in a while which Exim on my end says violates
RFC, so whichever Amazon outbound MX it happens to be at the moment
gets connection rate limited for bad commands.

I see tons and tons of connection rate limiting 'because of notquit:
command-timeout' in my log all from obvious spam hosts, besides the
Amazon SES hosts anyway. So I do not want to ignore bad commands for
obvious reasons.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. But other messages for other
Amazon services is doing the same thing. It's not just this list.
It's Amazon. Maybe they're dropping the connection early without
sending a QUIT because they are configured for impatience? I don't know.

On 9/17/2014 5:48 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

George, are the SMTP connections to your mailserver using TLS? The
reason I ask has to do with SMTP connection caching.
http://www.postfix.org/CONNECTION_CACHE_README.html


-Original Message- From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)
via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:34 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

In my case, it's not exactly g

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Do you think that's all they mean by "sync with Canopy"?  Surely they know 
better.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy


A little birdie mentioned to me that the Proxim gear will use the same
timing products as Canopy, and if I heard right, that is via the serial
timing cable or sync over power.

Which then means that you can plug Proxim WORP stuff into CMM, CTM, or
Packetflux timing things.

bp

On 9/17/2014 11:03 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
George, you ought to be all over that new Proxim WORP stuff like white on 
rice.   They claim that it will sync with Canopy.



bp

On 9/17/2014 10:41 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
Is that 2.4 or 5GHz? A couple weeks ago someone asked why the 2.4 AP 
sector is slant and the integrated SMs are H/V. Cambium responded with an 
explanation, something about the SM detecting phases and doing its thing.


Definitely looks like a Laird/Pac feed design. That has to be a pain to 
weather seal.


When they get these things to sync with Canopy and get the PTP latency 
down, then I'll buy some.


On 9/17/2014 9:22 AM, Greg Osborn via Af wrote:

   We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type 
connections.

It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant. All the
specs say H&V.

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I just tried sending another test email with an inline image.  It 
disappeared into some kind of email Bermuda Triangle.  Of course the only 
way to send such an email is to use HTML format.  But if I do that without 
the inline image, it just gets converted to plain text and sent out to the 
list.  Kind of like watching a color program on an old monochrome TV. 
Discard chrominance, forward luminance.  OK, how many people here other than 
Chuck have even seen a B&W TV?  Remember the movie Pleasantville?



-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

That would be Gino (off the top of my head).  Anyone heard from Gino in
the last few days?

bp

On 9/18/2014 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

At least your email came through, minus the image.
When I have tried to send emails with inline images, the whole email has 
just silently disappeared into the void.
I was wondering what was going to happen with the people who have images 
(like logos) in their signatures.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Friggin, fraggin no HTML got me again...

bp

On 9/18/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

bp

On 9/18/2014 8:21 AM, James Howard via Af wrote:

I don't want a job!   I'd like to retire.. unfortunately the
lottery ticket I bought this weekend didn't pan out so I'm kind of
stuck.  I think Florida is a nice place to visit but I can't see
myself living there. Besides, I don't know how far down your sand
goes but there are lots of winters when we have WAY more than 2 feet
of snow!  The winter before last I got the plow truck stuck when I
was plowing our front sidewalk.  The snow was over the windows on
both sides of the truck and I had a pile about 5 feet high in front
that I was trying to push.

You just can't have that kind of fun on sand!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

James,

OK, you responded, thus you must want a job with PDMNet / Florida
Broadband !

The pay isn't great, but the work hours are long :) And, when most
people have two feet of snow, we have two feet in the sand on the
beach :)

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
James Howard via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

There you go telling us what to do again!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

IGNORE - unless you want a job

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:06 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I was thinking if the connection is using TLS, then connection
caching wouldn't work anyway. But it seems I was misreading that
Postfix document, it seems to say Postfix would not re-use the
connection, but another MTA with a different software architecture
maybe could.


-Original Message-
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Yes, TLS, and it has been this way since like.. ever. More years than
I can remember anyway. What is/was Beehive running on, Qmail? Looking
through my logs, coming from Beehive it was TLS as well. Coming from
WISPA is TLS, too. What MTA is WISPA running?

The Postfix TLS/connection caching thing could be the problem. Maybe
they're trying to hold the session open to deliver more messages?
That seems like a Postfix problem to me. But that doesn't make sense
because in all (normal) instances (WISPA, Beehive AF, Amazon AF),
messages are coming in for each recipient (me and Mike are on the
same lists) separately. Separate message ID and SMTP session for each
recipient per message. The only thing different with Amazon is they
seem to "forget"
to send a QUIT once in a while which Exim on my end says violates
RFC, so whichever Amazon outbound MX it happens to be at the moment
gets connection rate limited for bad commands.

I see tons and tons of connection rate limiting 'because of notquit:
command-timeout' in my log all from obvious spam hosts, besides the
Amazon SES hosts anyway. So I do not want to ignore bad commands for
obvious reasons.

I&

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Since Amazon SES is just doing the SMTP delivery part, I assume Paul has the 
actual list server running somewhere in the Amazon cloud and some of the 
behavior we are seeing may be due to how the list server is configured, not 
how SES works.  Hard to believe that SES would disallow smileys and images 
in signature lines.



-Original Message- 
From: James Howard via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I also tried inserting an image inline.  My message never came through 
either.  I'm guessing it's not related to the email client but I'm using 
Outlook 2010.


Yes, I've watched B&W tv (and Pleasantville also).  I don't remember ever 
not having a color tv when I was growing up but we did have a B&W also.  I 
think we hooked our first pong (or whatever) video game to it.


From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire....@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I just tried sending another test email with an inline image. It
disappeared into some kind of email Bermuda Triangle. Of course the only
way to send such an email is to use HTML format. But if I do that without
the inline image, it just gets converted to plain text and sent out to the
list. Kind of like watching a color program on an old monochrome TV.
Discard chrominance, forward luminance. OK, how many people here other than
Chuck have even seen a B&W TV? Remember the movie Pleasantville?


-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

That would be Gino (off the top of my head). Anyone heard from Gino in
the last few days?

bp

On 9/18/2014 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

At least your email came through, minus the image.
When I have tried to send emails with inline images, the whole email has
just silently disappeared into the void.
I was wondering what was going to happen with the people who have images
(like logos) in their signatures.

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Friggin, fraggin no HTML got me again...

bp

On 9/18/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

bp

On 9/18/2014 8:21 AM, James Howard via Af wrote:

I don't want a job! I'd like to retire.. unfortunately the
lottery ticket I bought this weekend didn't pan out so I'm kind of
stuck. I think Florida is a nice place to visit but I can't see
myself living there. Besides, I don't know how far down your sand
goes but there are lots of winters when we have WAY more than 2 feet
of snow! The winter before last I got the plow truck stuck when I
was plowing our front sidewalk. The snow was over the windows on
both sides of the truck and I had a pile about 5 feet high in front
that I was trying to push.

You just can't have that kind of fun on sand!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

James,

OK, you responded, thus you must want a job with PDMNet / Florida
Broadband !

The pay isn't great, but the work hours are long :) And, when most
people have two feet of snow, we have two feet in the sand on the
beach :)

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
James Howard via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:06 AM
To: 
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

There you go telling us what to do again!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:51 AM
To: 
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

IGNORE - unless you want a job

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:06 PM
To:
af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e><mailto:af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e><mailto:af@afmug.com%3e%3e>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I was thinking if the connection is using TLS, then connection
caching wouldn't work anyway. But it seems I was misreading that
Postfix document, it seems to say Postfix would not re-use the
connection, but another MTA with a different software architecture
maybe could.


-Original Message-
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I went to college around 1970.  It was the first time you had to live with 
and get along with people outside your immediate family.


It involved an archaic experience called the TV lounge.  Yes we had color 
TV, but there was just one of them in the dorm, and 50+ people would gather 
and watch what would now be called "linear TV".  So this involved a 
community decision what show to watch.  I guess the closest experience today 
would be something like a sports bar where everyone watches a certain game. 
Anyway, certain shows were automatic like Star Trek or Laugh In or Rocky & 
Bullwinkle.


I wonder how many of today's inability of people to compromise and get along 
is driven by the fact that you no longer have 50 people deciding what show 
to watch.  Families don't even all watch a show on TV together.  Everyone 
has their "device" and chooses their own on-demand programming while living 
in their one-person bubble.  I'll bet boot camp in the Army is quite the 
shocker for most recruits.  Or maybe boot camp these days is not what I 
think.  Maybe it's all on an iPad now.



-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Ahhh, moving snow that talked.  3 channels (in theory, depending on weather,
refraction etc).
Color actually made things worse for those of us in the very rural areas.

Department stores selling "color" TV antennas.
Motels with the "COLOR TV" signs outside.
You can still see a few of those once in a while.

Gathering at the neighbor's house to see the NBC peacock on their color TV.

I have a list of archaic sayings that I have collected over the years from
my (now all grown) kids.  Whenever I would say something puzzling to them, I
would add it to the list if it was determined to be an archaic saying.  Like
saying "they were out sparking"; even "running like OJ Simpson" made it to
the list.  One of my sayings that should probably be on the list is my idea
of a good time: "room service and a color TV".

-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

I just tried sending another test email with an inline image.  It
disappeared into some kind of email Bermuda Triangle.  Of course the only
way to send such an email is to use HTML format.  But if I do that without
the inline image, it just gets converted to plain text and sent out to the
list.  Kind of like watching a color program on an old monochrome TV.
Discard chrominance, forward luminance.  OK, how many people here other than
Chuck have even seen a B&W TV?  Remember the movie Pleasantville?


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

That would be Gino (off the top of my head).  Anyone heard from Gino in
the last few days?

bp

On 9/18/2014 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

At least your email came through, minus the image.
When I have tried to send emails with inline images, the whole email has 
just silently disappeared into the void.
I was wondering what was going to happen with the people who have images 
(like logos) in their signatures.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Friggin, fraggin no HTML got me again...

bp

On 9/18/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

bp

On 9/18/2014 8:21 AM, James Howard via Af wrote:

I don't want a job!   I'd like to retire.. unfortunately the
lottery ticket I bought this weekend didn't pan out so I'm kind of
stuck.  I think Florida is a nice place to visit but I can't see
myself living there. Besides, I don't know how far down your sand
goes but there are lots of winters when we have WAY more than 2 feet
of snow!  The winter before last I got the plow truck stuck when I
was plowing our front sidewalk.  The snow was over the windows on
both sides of the truck and I had a pile about 5 feet high in front
that I was trying to push.

You just can't have that kind of fun on sand!

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf
Of Paul McCall via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

James,

OK, you responded, thus you must want a job with PDMNet / Florida
Broadband !

The pay isn't great, but the work hours are long :) And, when most
people have two feet of snow, we have two feet in the sand on the
beach :)

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
James Howard via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

Re: [AFMUG] TESTING: PLEASE IGNORE - Yeah Right !

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Well, aren’t you special.  And big!

From: Paul McCall via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] TESTING: PLEASE IGNORE - Yeah Right !

Inserting a graphic…

 



 

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com

pa...@pdmnet.net

 

Re: [AFMUG] battery tester

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

signaturehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specials_(Unicode_block)#Replacement_character

From: Bill Prince via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery tester

What� happens� if� you� only� use� double� spaces?

bpOn 9/18/2014 1:33 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

  Weird, Does this just happen on double� spaces? 


  On 9/18/2014 2:31 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

Nope, PC -� Thunderbird.


On 9/18/2014 2:22 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

  You must be on a Mac.� Those things always seem to be inserting weird 
characters.


bpOn 9/18/2014 12:32 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

Sorry if I wasn't clear.� I meant the "automotive type battery 
testers."�� I'm looking for something more appropriate for solar batteries.


On 9/18/2014 1:20 PM, David via Af wrote:

  Automotive batteries would degrade rapidly depending on what region 
your in.
  We use only AGM for our area.


  On 09/18/2014 02:06 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

Does anyone have a recommended battery tester for AGM and Gel 
batteries at solar sites?� I have batteries from 100AH to 225AH.� Most of 
the automotive models seem to be concerned with cold cranking amps, pretty 
irrelevant for us.




  -- 


   Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com
   


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Also it seems like Google has become sloow.  The links are now some 
humongous long string and my suspicion is they are doing a lot more data mining 
now when you click on a link, like vacuuming all the data out of your computer 
before sending your browser to the page in the search results.

It used to be Google was lightning fast, and the search results linked directly 
to the page.

I’m probably wrong about the why, but something has definitely changed over the 
last year or so.


From: Eric Markow via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

Totally agree that Google search results have been getting worse and worse, 
especially when I’m just looking for INFORMATION, not necessarily to purchase 
something. I generally can’t stand Microsoft, but perhaps I’ll give Bing a try. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+eric=belairinternet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Paul Conlin via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

 

Are 1000BASE-LX SFP modules compatible with 1000BASE-LX-10 SFP modules?  
Specifically talking SM fiber.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-LX says LX-10 is good 
for 10km whereas LX can only do 5km.  I get that LX-10 has twice the range due 
to “better optics”, but at distances of less than 5km are they compatible / 
interchangeable?  All specs I can find match up implying they are but I can’t 
specifically find word on compatibility.

 

Is it just me or has Google become nothing more than a shopping mall?  It is 
getting much hard to find information other than prices. 

 

PC

Blaze Broadband

 

 




This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient,please notify the sender 
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any 
dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended 
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.




This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient,please notify the sender 
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any 
dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended 
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

Re: [AFMUG] Google is Slow WAS 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

So why when I inspect the source for a link that appears to go to 
http://www.wispa.org/ do I see this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wispa.org%2F&ei=S3EbVLi4Iaa78QHTuYGIBw&usg=AFQjCNEVUAuzl5-AVZjw7h8eAshpd7DBNQ&bvm=bv.75774317,d.cWc";>WISPA:
 Home

And you see the strange URL briefly in the address bar of your browser.  Is 
this for data mining?  Or pre-caching the pages it thinks you might click on?


From: Sterling Jacobson via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google is Slow WAS 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

It might be your internet is slow (ducks)!

 

My google runs lighting fast and the links when I go to them or hover over them 
don’t contain any back tracking.

 

Maybe you have cookie trackers or malware?

 

Maybe your DNS isn’t optimized?

 

These are all things I’ve noticed on others machines that make the fastest 
internet look super slow.

 

Also, routers. Don’t get me started on routers

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+sterling=avative@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

 

Also it seems like Google has become sloow.  The links are now some 
humongous long string and my suspicion is they are doing a lot more data mining 
now when you click on a link, like vacuuming all the data out of your computer 
before sending your browser to the page in the search results.

 

It used to be Google was lightning fast, and the search results linked directly 
to the page.

 

I’m probably wrong about the why, but something has definitely changed over the 
last year or so.

 

 

From: Eric Markow via Af 

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:29 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

 

Totally agree that Google search results have been getting worse and worse, 
especially when I’m just looking for INFORMATION, not necessarily to purchase 
something. I generally can’t stand Microsoft, but perhaps I’ll give Bing a try. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+eric=belairinternet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Paul Conlin via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 1000BASE-LX SFP compatibility

 

Are 1000BASE-LX SFP modules compatible with 1000BASE-LX-10 SFP modules?  
Specifically talking SM fiber.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-LX says LX-10 is good 
for 10km whereas LX can only do 5km.  I get that LX-10 has twice the range due 
to “better optics”, but at distances of less than 5km are they compatible / 
interchangeable?  All specs I can find match up implying they are but I can’t 
specifically find word on compatibility.

 

Is it just me or has Google become nothing more than a shopping mall?  It is 
getting much hard to find information other than prices. 

 

PC

Blaze Broadband

 

 




This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient,please notify the sender 
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any 
dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended 
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

 




This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient,please notify the sender 
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any 
dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended 
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

Re: [AFMUG] PC Remote control client for IPhone

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I have some customers doing that via Team Viewer, that seems to be the method 
of choice that the grain drier and feed mill companies set them up with.  Not 
sure if that’s because it works the best, or is just the easiest for them to 
monetize (I’m assuming there’s a charge for the service, perhaps not).  From 
what the farmers say, it works.

Some grain drier controls companies have their own servers that VPN to the 
drier and then let the farmer remote in.  For example:
http://mathewscompany.com/products/controlsmonitoring/m-c-trax/
We hooked up one of these to a new drier recently but the farmer hasn’t fired 
it up yet.


From: Darin Steffl via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 12:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PC Remote control client for IPhone

TeamViewer works the best. Much better performance than logmein 

On Sep 19, 2014 12:04 AM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

  the two people i know using the logmein app swear by it, its dirt cheap too

  On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Nate Burke via Af  wrote:

I have a customer (non Technical Farmer) who needs to be able to remote 
control a PC from his IPhone to view/control his Grain Drier.  What's out there 
that's easy to use/setup, and is compatible with an IPhone.  He will be logging 
into a PC.  Modest cost won't be an issue if it will work well.

Nate





  -- 

  All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] battery tester

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I have never used these but have noticed them on the website when buying other 
stuff:
http://www.powerwerx.com/batteries-chargers/cba-iv-4-pro-computerized-battery-analyzer-commercial-use.html


From: TJ Trout via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery tester

Carbon pile battery load tester is what you need. 

On Sep 18, 2014 3:07 PM, "Randy Cosby via Af"  wrote:

  Ah, figured this out.  Batteries have been getting down to 20c around noon, 
temperature compensation of .12V per degree below 25c, 56.6V is where we top 
out.  Just right.




  On 9/18/2014 3:35 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

Before anyone mentions it, I know some of these batteries are being charged 
too high. I have my charger (Tristar MPPT-60) set for gel battery voltages, and 
the combined voltage is supposed to top out at 56v. It looks like we're getting 
a little higher than that, I need to figure out why. 





On 9/18/2014 3:14 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

  Getting back on topic (and trying to avoid double-spaces)...

  I have two strings of four GEL batteries, all of them the same age. They 
are all being charged by the same solar panels/controller. Positive lead is 
connected to battery 1, negative to battery 4. Load is connected the same way. 
I am now monitoring each battery separately with a pair of sitemonitor 4-input 
modules. 

  One battery I know is bad - 1.1 (bank 1 battery 1). It drops under 12v at 
night.

  The graphs are puzzling to me.  The other batteries I'm not sure on. Each 
seems to have a different/profile slope when charging, but similar (but not 
identical) slope when discharging. Take a look:

  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4059343/graff%20voltage%20graps.png

  Anyone care to venture a guess as to why we're seeing these differences?



  On 9/18/2014 1:57 PM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:

Telemetry.  Just watch the slope of the discharge voltage at night.  I 
have tried to use impedance meters several times at different companies and 
cannot get results that predict failures. 

If you have a battery that should last several days, disconnect the 
solar panels and watch the telemetry.  

From: Randy Cosby via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] battery tester

Does anyone have a recommended battery tester for AGM and Gel batteries 
at solar sites?  I have batteries from 100AH to 225AH.  Most of the automotive 
models seem to be concerned with cold cranking amps, pretty irrelevant for us.




-- 


 Randy Cosby
  InfoWest, Inc
  435-674-0165 x 2010
  infowest.com
 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.



  -- 


   Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com
   


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.



-- 


 Randy Cosby
  InfoWest, Inc
  435-674-0165 x 2010
  infowest.com
 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.



  -- 


   Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com
   


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Do you really expect it on 100 and 430?  I would be very surprised.  But I 
guess unexpected good stuff happens.  Not to me, though.  I have been 
accused of being a pessimist, but if that's true, shouldn't I be pleasantly 
surprised all the time?



-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Inquiring minds want to know...

Of the thousands SM's that we have in the air right now, only a hand full 
are 430/450's.
Don't get me wrong, if this isn't going to be on PMP100 this is still good 
news, but of limited use to us right now.


--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Adam Moffett via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:59:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium


Can you tell us which platforms will get these features?  PMP100 and up,
or just the 430/450?


You'll have to wait for WISPAPALOOZA for more details. :)

*From:*Af
[mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

OK, so clarify the option 66 URL part. What makes sense to me is a
single option 66 statement on the DHCP server like I said below. The
SM will fill in its ESN/MAC as the file name to pull from the HTTP or
TFTP server. This is how most VoIP handset/ATA provisioning works. On
the PBX or switch, your station config files would reside in some
directory and the handset would request 001122334455.cfg or
00-11-22-33-44-55.cfg. This is exactly how zero-touch auto-provision
works, at least with the VoIP crap I've messed with. What I'm looking
for is how to tie X device to X customer in say a
billing/support/provisioning system. And if the SM dies, then rename
the file with the new ESN.

So if this is not the way the option 66 mechanism will function, then
yeah, RADIUS VSA for the URL will be the only other way. I think it
would be easier to just do RADIUS attributes for all of the config,
but we've had that discussion before.

Off my rocker now? :)

On 9/18/2014 8:46 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af wrote:

You are securely attached to your rocker and very comfortable.

That's pretty much how it will go but the dhcp server will provide
the filename via option66 string within the url itself.

Another option would be radius profiles with config file url
delivered via a VSA. �Not sure that will get into first release.
But we are working on it.

You are correct on ICC operation, once a non default CC config is
in place, ICC will never be used on SM even if it is left enabled.
�But you can very easily set ICC to disabled in the config file.

Aaron

 Original message 

From: "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af"

Date:09/18/2014 6:48 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I'm guessing it's going to work like this: 13.3 SM registers via
ICC. It switches on DHCP and looks for Option 66. Then it contacts
the HTTP/TFTP server with a request string like
http:///$.cfg just like it works with IP phones
and things like that.

ICC doesn't do random stupid things anymore. That was with v11.1.
Once the SM is configured with color codes other than CC1=0 and
the reset zero and disabled, ICC is effectively disabled.

The second part is, if your default SM registered to my AP via
ICC, I wouldn't have a config file for its ESN to send it. Well,
maybe I could, but why.

I'm sure there's always a way for things to go wrong. But I need a
much faster and automated way to do provisioning. I'd like to give
the guys a basic template that they keep on their field PCs to
load into new radios to set up things like default QoS, protocol
filters, admin password, etc. RADIUS handles only basic stuff like
QoS and VLAN.

Maybe I'm completely off my rocker here.

On 9/18/2014 6:21 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

so if a device connects to icc, it will turn on dhcp client?
�so if we are using this, we will want to remember to have
part of the dump config be to disable ICC or if a deployed
unit happenned to hit ICC on a different AP, as has been the
case in the past, it will become defaulted, or at least
defaulted to the configured default configuration? This could
be problematic, stranding a subscriber if a competitor is also
running option 66 via ICC couldnt it? or is there a way to
mitigate that?

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, George Skorup (Cyber
Broadcasting) via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

That is freakin awesome! I think Matt said something about a
RADIUS VSA option

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I'm not saying there won't be new features on PMP100, just that something 
major like a different frame length would seem unlikely.


-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Yeah, I'm just holding out hope, but honestly I'm not overly optimistic that 
we will get ANY new features on for the PMP100 radios.  Can you say EOL?


--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Do you really expect it on 100 and 430?  I would be very surprised.  But I
guess unexpected good stuff happens.  Not to me, though.  I have been
accused of being a pessimist, but if that's true, shouldn't I be pleasantly
surprised all the time?


-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Inquiring minds want to know...

Of the thousands SM's that we have in the air right now, only a hand full
are 430/450's.
Don't get me wrong, if this isn't going to be on PMP100 this is still good
news, but of limited use to us right now.

--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Adam Moffett via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:59:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium


Can you tell us which platforms will get these features?  PMP100 and up,
or just the 430/450?


You'll have to wait for WISPAPALOOZA for more details. :)

*From:*Af
[mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

OK, so clarify the option 66 URL part. What makes sense to me is a
single option 66 statement on the DHCP server like I said below. The
SM will fill in its ESN/MAC as the file name to pull from the HTTP or
TFTP server. This is how most VoIP handset/ATA provisioning works. On
the PBX or switch, your station config files would reside in some
directory and the handset would request 001122334455.cfg or
00-11-22-33-44-55.cfg. This is exactly how zero-touch auto-provision
works, at least with the VoIP crap I've messed with. What I'm looking
for is how to tie X device to X customer in say a
billing/support/provisioning system. And if the SM dies, then rename
the file with the new ESN.

So if this is not the way the option 66 mechanism will function, then
yeah, RADIUS VSA for the URL will be the only other way. I think it
would be easier to just do RADIUS attributes for all of the config,
but we've had that discussion before.

Off my rocker now? :)

On 9/18/2014 8:46 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af wrote:

You are securely attached to your rocker and very comfortable.

That's pretty much how it will go but the dhcp server will provide
the filename via option66 string within the url itself.

Another option would be radius profiles with config file url
delivered via a VSA. �Not sure that will get into first release.
But we are working on it.

You are correct on ICC operation, once a non default CC config is
in place, ICC will never be used on SM even if it is left enabled.
�But you can very easily set ICC to disabled in the config file.

Aaron

 Original message 

From: "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af"

Date:09/18/2014 6:48 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I'm guessing it's going to work like this: 13.3 SM registers via
ICC. It switches on DHCP and looks for Option 66. Then it contacts
the HTTP/TFTP server with a request string like
http:///$.cfg just like it works with IP phones
and things like that.

ICC doesn't do random stupid things anymore. That was with v11.1.
Once the SM is configured with color codes other than CC1=0 and
the reset zero and disabled, ICC is effectively disabled.

The second part is, if your default SM registered to my AP via
ICC, I wouldn't have a config file for its ESN to send it. Well,
maybe I could, but why.

I'm sure there's always a way for things to go wrong. But I need a
much faster and automated way to do provisioning. I'd like to give
the guys a basic template that they keep on their field PCs to
load into new radios to set up things like default QoS, protocol
filters, admin password, etc. RADIUS handles only basic stuff like
QoS and VLAN.

Maybe I'm completely off my rocker here.

On

Re: [AFMUG] wispa.org down?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

OK here.

From: Patrick Wheeland via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] wispa.org down?

I was trying to look up the American Tower WISPA contact but can't pull up 
wispa.org.  My DNS servers won't resolve the name.  If I use google's DNS, I 
get the IP but if I put that in my browser I get a TurnKey LAMP page.  Is 
anyone else having trouble pulling up wispa.org?


-Patrick 

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

--- [ "Ken Hohhof"  wrote ]:
---Well, Jack Ma is a lot wealthier than he was yesterday.

OK, you’re right, he already created the wealth, he just cashed out.  But in 
today’s economy, does anyone really create wealth?  What is alibaba, a website? 
 It’s not like he built something tangible.  The two drivers of our world 
economy – finance and the Internet – are kind of based on fictional creations, 
it’s like living in The Matrix.  Strangely, these new age creations even take 
away wealth that was created in the physical world, like who wants to own 
copper phonelines anymore?  Brick and mortar stores?  CDs and DVDs.  Film 
photography?  Newspapers and books?  Even cars, if Uber catches on.  The only 
physical things people seem to still want are houses and pets and smartphones.  
And smartwatches?

From: James Howard via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

--- [ James Howard  wrote ]:
--- 




Does anyone ever make money in the stock market without someone else losing 
that same amount of money?  Wealth isn’t created in the stock market, it’s 
transferred.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason 
McKemie via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

 

--- [ Jason McKemie 

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

--- [ "Ken Hohhof"  wrote ]:
---You’re probably right about me.  Honestly, my FSK is still all on 10.5, and my 
430 is still on 11.2.  I’d like some of the improvements to the GUI, but 
honestly, at some point you wonder if it’s worth the trouble and mini outages 
to do the firmware upgrades on legacy stuff.

I guess from an operations standpoint though, especially if you automate 
things, it helps if everything works the same.  And I will probably upgrade the 
old stuff, if only to avoid scrolling through a mile long sessions list.

The argument for continuing to roll human and machine interface improvements 
into PMP100 is that’s what keeps WISPs buying Cambium, they can train their 
people and write their software and have it work the same across the product 
line.  But evidently that logic was lost on the team that developed ePMP.

If the sales strategy is to convince WISPs to convert PMP100 to ePMP, it will 
be interesting to hear what the recommended way is to do that.  I am going to 
be very surprised to see an ePMP compatible framing mode put into PMP100, 
that’s surely not a minor change, but without that, are the only 2 ways to 
upgrade a tower from PMP100 to ePMP either find some spare spectrum, or do a 
1-day forklift of all the subs?  A PMP100 to PMP450 forklift can be pretty easy 
(except on the pocketbook) if you already have reflector dishes, we’ve found 
you don’t even have to realign the dishes.  But replacing a reflector dish with 
a Force100 will probably take a little longer.  Maybe not that much.  The worst 
would be if you can’t have both sets of APs on the tower at the same time and 
literally have to take down every sub on the tower until you get an installer 
with a new radio out to them.


From: That One Guy via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

--- [ That One Guy  wrote ]:
--- 




I really wish that cambium was more forthright, I understand playing your cards 
close to your chest. we knew with 320 it was a dead duck, but Cambium (sales 
staff in particular) would never put out a clear answer on its demise. 

We all wear big boy pants around here, except ken, he wears biker shorts. We 
can handle the truth and would much prefer to plan accordingly.

Im oretty sure that since 100 wont be getting .2 that gives us our answer, but 
it would be nice to have it formalized, Cambiums like a cheating wife, you know 
what shes doing, you know whats going to happen when you have evidence, but 
until you hear it from her mouth, you keep on painting the kitchen and mowing 
the lawn. Cambium, can we stop painting and let the grass grow?

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af  wrote:

  --- [ Aaron Schneider  wrote ]:
  ---
  Hmm, this is odd - yours and Sean's messages came in as an attachment to an 
empty message...

  Anyways, yes, we are well aware that FSK is never going away, we've been the 
ones keeping it going for this long!  We took a break from releasing FSK 
version from 11.2 to 12.1 and the next refresh release from that was 13.1.   
I don't think there has been any full decision on the fate of future FSK 
releases but we are concentrating 13.2 and 13.3 on the 430/450 products and 
will see then.   I'll see if we can get a point release with the couple of 
minor (meaning to fix, not meaning "minor impact") items such as missing the 
None frequency.

  George you need to talk your boss into letting you go to Vegas.  Imagine the 
discussions you can have once you get some libations in you and go on tilt at 
the blackjack table. :)

  -Aaron




  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:06 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium


  --- [ "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)"  wrote ]:
  ---





-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Can you fix it Paul?!?!?!?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

--- [ "Ken Hohhof"  wrote ]:
---OK, I realize I’m hijacking this thread, but every time I’ve tried to post 
about this, my emails have gone to /dev/null.

It seems certain topics get blocked by some sort of philter.  Have you noticed 
it’s Friday and no 4 sail posts?  Also no auf topik posts?  (trying to avoid 
getting philtered, even asking about it seems to be forbidden)


-Original Message- 
From: James Howard via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:59 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Can you fix it Paul?!?!?!? 

--- [ James Howard  wrote ]:
---
I'm using Outlook and if I change the format to plain text when typing it 
doesn't split the message into attachments.  I sent this just before your last 
message came through saying you were diagnosing the issue.  

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+james=litewire@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
McCall via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Can you fix it Paul?!?!?!?

--- [ Paul McCall  wrote ]:
---
ABSOLUTELY !!! :)

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of James 
Howard via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 3:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Can you fix it Paul?!?!?!?

--- [ James Howard  wrote ]:
---
All the other stuff that was being complained about didn't bother me at all 
(mostly because I was on vacation and it just caused a few hundred more 
messages to end up in my inbox instead of being moved by the rules). This issue 
with the messages either coming in empty for some people or having the actual 
message in attachments is awful though! 

Seriously though, thanks for all the work that you're doing on getting the list 
moved over and up to snuff!

James Howard
LiteWire Internet Services, Inc.



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Re: [AFMUG] Quick Poll: 477 Deployment Report

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

signatureReluctantly B.  The devil on one shoulder is still telling me A.

Actually, I am starting from A and manually approving every addition from B.  
It’s a lot of work and I probably won’t do it every 6 months, but I’m asking in 
each case am I sure that I could reach at least part of that census block, and 
if so, why don’t I have any customers there yet?  I am more inclined to go with 
RF coverage in new areas I’ve just built into.  If I’ve been there 10 years and 
don’t have any customers in that block, maybe I can’t cover it.  In some cases 
I find there are zero buildings in the block, so if Frontier wants to get CAF 
money to provide service there, more power to them.

I am probably being paranoid, but if I ever get challenged on this, I want to 
have my ducks in a row.  Also I want to figure out a way, even if I pay Brian 
or something, to turn this into a coverage map and/or Google Earth overlay and 
use that as our coverage map instead of RF coverage plots which I find lacking.

For some WISPs, this might be a good sales/marketing exercise.  What are all 
the blocks where we have RF coverage but zero customers?  Why no customers?  
Nobody lives there?  Competitor outguns me there?  Or just no word-of-mouth.  
If so, maybe need to send some postcards or knock on doors.

It should be possible to pull census statistics for each block to see how many 
housing units and people the gov’t thinks are in that block.  If there are 10 
houses and 30 people in a block and none of them are my customers, why not?



From: Randy Cosby via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 3:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Quick Poll: 477 Deployment Report

I'm curious how everyone is recording on their deployment report.

A: I am reporting every census block where I have a customer
B: I am reporting every census block that I can cover based on my RF coverage 
maps
C: Not yet decided





-- 


 Randy Cosby
  InfoWest, Inc
  435-674-0165 x 2010
  infowest.com
 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Are you sure Cambium is making money on PMP100?  Remember, they don't get 
any money for a used radio.  It's not like Cisco who thinks you will buy 
SmartNet on a router off eBay.


I'm sure they do sell some new PMP100, but they really screwed themselves by 
making them last forever.


So some new product to replace 900 FSK rather than just a free firmware 
upgrade for a radio built and sold long ago is probably what some Cambium 
product manager loses sleep over.  If only LTE was cheap.  If only TVWS was 
cheap.  If only there was some more low frequency spectrum that WISPs could 
get access to.  If only power companies would stop using 900 for smartgrid.


Didn't Tesla have some method of sending signals through the ground?

But I really have to wonder about you WISPs that use 900 as your bread and 
butter, how do you compete with stuff like Exede?  Yes, I know the usage 
cap, but how much usage can you rack up on a connection that doesn't support 
video streaming anyway?  We need to be either cheaper than Exede, or just as 
fast with higher usage caps.  Or be lucky enough to be in an area where they 
don't have spot beams.  And AT&T, Verizon, Sprint and DISH don't have fixed 
wireless over LTE.  And the ILEC doesn't get CAF money to run fiber or VDSL.



-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I love the 450, 450 is awesome, but 90% of our subs are on 900 MHz, what do 
we do there, where is our upgrade path, what is the replacement for PMP100 
in 900 MHz?
We have no alternative to 900 for most of our customers where we are, too 
many hills and trees.  We are still deploying 900 MHz radios in large 
quantities simply because we can't use anything else.  Sure would be nice to 
have an easy way to configure those radios, we (Animal Farm) have only been 
asking for that feature for the last 8 years, not like they didn't know 
about it or have the time to figure it out.  Now they are giving it to us, 
but only on a platform where we don't really need it yet.


While I understand that PMP100 is somewhat antiquated, Cambium is still 
making money on it and will continue to make money on it, so why not give us 
at least some development beyond bug fixes at least until there is a 900 
replacement?  Why not a 450 in 900 MHz that's using the newer hardware but 
still only 2x modulation. We would literally buy thousands of them within 
the next year.


--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Mathew Howard via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

or even better, put up the ePMP in 5.1, and you could leave it there and not 
lose the 6db.


From: Af [af-bounces+mathew=litewire@afmug.com] on behalf of Adam 
Moffett via Af [af@afmug.com]

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

You should check out ePMP 2.2 firmware.  The new GUI is much better.  Not 
the same as Canopy, but it's a lot more familiar to navigate now.


If you replace PMP100 with anything else it will be a forklift no matter 
what.  The good thing about ePMP and 450 is they both have 5.7 and 5.4 in 
the same unit.  Presumably your PMP100 is 5.7.  Did they even make that in 
5.4?  So you put your new one on a 5.4 channel, start replacing subscribers, 
then switch it back to 5.7 so you can have your 6db back.  The ones that 
might not work with the missing 6db on 5.4 you identify ahead of time and do 
them last.


This is theoretical right now, but it's happening here in a month or so.



--- [ "Ken Hohhof"  wrote ]:
---


You’re probably right about me.  Honestly, my FSK is still all on 10.5, and 
my 430 is still on 11.2.  I’d like some of the improvements to the GUI, but 
honestly, at some point you wonder if it’s worth the trouble and mini 
outages to do the firmware upgrades on legacy stuff.


I guess from an operations standpoint though, especially if you automate 
things, it helps if everything works the same.  And I will probably upgrade 
the old stuff, if only to avoid scrolling through a mile long sessions list.


The argument for continuing to roll human and machine interface improvements 
into PMP100 is that’s what keeps WISPs buying Cambium, they can train their 
people and write their software and have it work the same across the product 
line.  But evidently that logic was lost on the team that developed ePMP.


If the sales strategy is to convince WISPs to convert PMP100 to ePMP, it 
will be interesting to hear what the recommended way is to do that.  I am 
going to be very surprised to see an ePMP compatible framing mode put into 
PMP100, that’s surely not a minor change, but without that, are the only 2 
ways to upgrade a tower from PM

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Yeah, I’ve used the temporary 5.4 method.  And yes dual band was a nice gift in 
450, not sure why it suddenly became possible but never was in 100 or 430.  
Unfortunately 4.9 and 5.1 will not be same HW, but 5.4 and 5.7 together is 
really nice for many reasons.

Also, 10 MHz channels are working out really nice on 450.  I have used them to 
squeeze in a new sector when transitioning from 100 and am not feeling a lot of 
pressure yet to upgrade to 20 MHz, I’m sure it will happen eventually.  The 
extra range is nice.


From: Adam Moffett via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

You should check out ePMP 2.2 firmware.  The new GUI is much better.  Not the 
same as Canopy, but it's a lot more familiar to navigate now.


If you replace PMP100 with anything else it will be a forklift no matter what.  
The good thing about ePMP and 450 is they both have 5.7 and 5.4 in the same 
unit.  Presumably your PMP100 is 5.7.  Did they even make that in 5.4?  So you 
put your new one on a 5.4 channel, start replacing subscribers, then switch it 
back to 5.7 so you can have your 6db back.  The ones that might not work with 
the missing 6db on 5.4 you identify ahead of time and do them last.

This is theoretical right now, but it's happening here in a month or so.



--- [ "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote ]:
---
   

  You’re probably right about me.  Honestly, my FSK is still all on 10.5, and 
my 430 is still on 11.2.  I’d like some of the improvements to the GUI, but 
honestly, at some point you wonder if it’s worth the trouble and mini outages 
to do the firmware upgrades on legacy stuff.

  I guess from an operations standpoint though, especially if you automate 
things, it helps if everything works the same.  And I will probably upgrade the 
old stuff, if only to avoid scrolling through a mile long sessions list.

  The argument for continuing to roll human and machine interface improvements 
into PMP100 is that’s what keeps WISPs buying Cambium, they can train their 
people and write their software and have it work the same across the product 
line.  But evidently that logic was lost on the team that developed ePMP.

  If the sales strategy is to convince WISPs to convert PMP100 to ePMP, it will 
be interesting to hear what the recommended way is to do that.  I am going to 
be very surprised to see an ePMP compatible framing mode put into PMP100, 
that’s surely not a minor change, but without that, are the only 2 ways to 
upgrade a tower from PMP100 to ePMP either find some spare spectrum, or do a 
1-day forklift of all the subs?  A PMP100 to PMP450 forklift can be pretty easy 
(except on the pocketbook) if you already have reflector dishes, we’ve found 
you don’t even have to realign the dishes.  But replacing a reflector dish with 
a Force100 will probably take a little longer.  Maybe not that much.  The worst 
would be if you can’t have both sets of APs on the tower at the same time and 
literally have to take down every sub on the tower until you get an installer 
with a new radio out to them.


  From: That One Guy via Af 
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

  --- [ That One Guy mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote ]:
  --- 
--

  I really wish that cambium was more forthright, I understand playing your 
cards close to your chest. we knew with 320 it was a dead duck, but Cambium 
(sales staff in particular) would never put out a clear answer on its demise. 

  We all wear big boy pants around here, except ken, he wears biker shorts. We 
can handle the truth and would much prefer to plan accordingly.

  Im oretty sure that since 100 wont be getting .2 that gives us our answer, 
but it would be nice to have it formalized, Cambiums like a cheating wife, you 
know what shes doing, you know whats going to happen when you have evidence, 
but until you hear it from her mouth, you keep on painting the kitchen and 
mowing the lawn. Cambium, can we stop painting and let the grass grow?

  On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af  wrote:

--- [ Aaron Schneider  wrote ]:
---
Hmm, this is odd - yours and Sean's messages came in as an attachment to an 
empty message...

Anyways, yes, we are well aware that FSK is never going away, we've been 
the ones keeping it going for this long!  We took a break from releasing FSK 
version from 11.2 to 12.1 and the next refresh release from that was 13.1.   
I don't think there has been any full decision on the fate of future FSK 
releases but we are concentrating 13.2 and 13.3 on the 430/450 products and 
will see then.   I'll see if we can get a point release with the couple of 
minor (meaning to fix, not meaning "minor impact") items such as missin

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I meant it in the spirit of the Stride gum commercials.  Chew another piece 
already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPSkCEYpShA


-Original Message- 
From: Rory Conaway via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 6:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Ken, I'm going to have to disagree with your statement about Cambium 
screwing themselves because they built them to last forever.   People are 
willing to pay for quality since cost of ownership is much lower.  For 
example, if Cambium had the ePMP even 2 years ago or something 802.11 
compatible (not that the ePMP is compatible), I would rather have paid 50% 
more for a radio that will be here in 5 years.  I consider that the minimum 
life of the product before a new technology needs to be deployed and from an 
accounting standpoint, it fits the depreciation schedule.  As it is, we 
assume Ubiquiti will last 3 years since that's been our experience.  We are 
seeing the Nanobridges, AirRouters, and Toughswitches fail even faster than 
that though so our financials have to be adjusted and we have to charge more 
to cover it.  Our hope is that the new Nanobeams have a longer average 
lifespan than the last 2 product series so that all is right with the world.


As for 900Mhz, there are people that need something in that band.  However, 
it's going to take a different technology than 802.11 or something along the 
lines of an advanced 802.11 product to work down there.  Other than the 
WiMax products going into that band, I know of 2 other companies that have 
the potential to do some amazing things with the band and another technology 
that may be able to be used in that band.  We will see how that plays out.


I think short term if I was having to move into the sub-1GHz band, I'd 
seriously be looking at White Space as a temporary solution.  You might have 
to be creative with the financing options but I saw Radio Shack increase 
sales by bringing in outside financing options for clients when computers 
were big in the 80's, maybe there is something that could be done there. 
I'm sure WISPER Ventures or one of the companies that have specialized 
financing might be able to come up with something.


Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+rory=triadwireless....@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Ken Hohhof via Af

Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Are you sure Cambium is making money on PMP100?  Remember, they don't get 
any money for a used radio.  It's not like Cisco who thinks you will buy 
SmartNet on a router off eBay.


I'm sure they do sell some new PMP100, but they really screwed themselves by 
making them last forever.


So some new product to replace 900 FSK rather than just a free firmware 
upgrade for a radio built and sold long ago is probably what some Cambium 
product manager loses sleep over.  If only LTE was cheap.  If only TVWS was 
cheap.  If only there was some more low frequency spectrum that WISPs could 
get access to.  If only power companies would stop using 900 for smartgrid.


Didn't Tesla have some method of sending signals through the ground?

But I really have to wonder about you WISPs that use 900 as your bread and 
butter, how do you compete with stuff like Exede?  Yes, I know the usage 
cap, but how much usage can you rack up on a connection that doesn't support 
video streaming anyway?  We need to be either cheaper than Exede, or just as 
fast with higher usage caps.  Or be lucky enough to be in an area where they 
don't have spot beams.  And AT&T, Verizon, Sprint and DISH don't have fixed 
wireless over LTE.  And the ILEC doesn't get CAF money to run fiber or VDSL.



-Original Message-
From: Christopher Tyler via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I love the 450, 450 is awesome, but 90% of our subs are on 900 MHz, what do 
we do there, where is our upgrade path, what is the replacement for PMP100 
in 900 MHz?
We have no alternative to 900 for most of our customers where we are, too 
many hills and trees.  We are still deploying 900 MHz radios in large 
quantities simply because we can't use anything else.  Sure would be nice to 
have an easy way to configure those radios, we (Animal Farm) have only been 
asking for that feature for the last 8 years, not like they didn't know 
about it or have the time to figure it out.  Now they are giving it to us, 
but only on a platform where we don't really need it yet.


While I understand that PMP100 is somewhat antiquated, Cambium is still 
making money on it and will continue to make money on it, so why not give us 
at least some development beyond bug fixes at least until there is a 900 
replacement?  Why not a 450 in 900 MHz that's using the newer hardware but 
still only 2x modulation. We would literally buy thousands 

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Seems like a great use for Rural Broadband Experiment funds.

From: Jason McKemie via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 8:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

Yeah, the whole experimental license thing is a big issue for me at this point. 
This equipment is way too expensive to have the license pulled with no recourse.

On Friday, September 19, 2014, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af 
 wrote:

  Don't you still have to get an experimental license for TVWS at this point? 
Part of the problem here is that we're too close to the Chicago metro broadcast 
area. There were no usable channels the last time I looked at one of the 
databases. Even in the more rural parts of our network farther away from 
Chicago, maybe there's a chance, but it would be too much investment for too 
little gains. Current cost of the available gear, and future gear probably 
won't be any cheaper. Plus the HAAT restrictions.

  If you can use it, great! I hope you do, and make lots of money at it. 
Seriously. But I have a genuine fear that the FCC, who has been throwing loads 
of poo at us recently, will change their minds and sunset our access to the 
spectrum while it's being auctioned behind our backs at the same time they 
control our transmitters via database. We'll see how the 3550-3700 thing goes.

  On 9/19/2014 7:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af wrote:

You think TVWS is dead? I am curious why.

I feel it's a hope on the next hill over not a dream on the distant horizon.

We are going to trial the Runcom Wimax product ASAP in TVWS. For us, a lot 
of our area isn't even serviceable with 900mhz (assuming clean spectrum). 
Customer's less than a mile away would have too many trees for 900 to connect. 
Yes, even when that 900 was installed 150ft up a tree.

TVWS has the chance to reach lots of those who don't have access to 
broadband or even cell service. For many people a 2mbps/256kbps is way better 
than satellite. They can VPN, game, and VOIP. They might not be able to stream 
high def all day but they can get satellite TV for that. Its the trade off for 
living so rural.

For the past 6 months we have been deploying Telrad WiMAX in 3.65 and it's 
coverage and performance has been phenomenal. I am really excited to see what 
WiMAX applied to TVWS from Runcom can do. There has been talk about how the FSK 
is still a thriving product. In perfect conditions FSK provides 14mbps 
aggregate throughput. Runcom is estimating 15-20mbps aggregate throughput in 
average conditions. You also get 2 APs per Base Station with a built in ASN or 
use a gateway.

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

FWIW, my investment advisor got me out of AAPL, and advises decreasing stocks 
at this point especially those that don’t pay dividends and moving a higher 
percentage into bonds.  Of course risk tolerance varies with age (how many 
years you have left to recover from a big loss).  But he evidently feels stocks 
have run up to the point where they are getting risky.

Regarding AAPL, I had quite a paper loss at one time, finally recovered and 
made a nice profit, but it looked pretty grim for awhile.  The myth was it 
would only go one way - up.  Problem with Apple is they always have to hit it 
out of the park, merely having a good quarter is a disappointment.  It must be 
like being a magician, but if you pulled a rabbit out of your hat last night, 
tonight you need to pull a lion out of the hat, and tomorrow a rhinoceros.  
Wait, I’m thinking of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY5Cg
I could swear there was one where he pulled Rocky out of the hat.


From: Mike Hammett via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

NetFlix and FaceBook haven't even existed "long term".




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com







From: "CBB - Jay Fuller via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:13:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

--- [ "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote ]:
---


Long term the stocks I'm interested in right now are Apple, Netflix, and 
Facebook.  They all have performed well long term.
I do not currently have any Netflix but it's also had a bit of a rocky road.  
Look at its one year chart.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  --- [ Travis Johnson  wrote ]:
  --- 
--
  The stock market is not a good "long term" investment, in my opinion 
unless you go into a fund like T. Rowe Price Blue Chip (which has returned me 
30% so far this year). A single stock is just too risky.

  The play is the one day in and out game... like this Alibaba stock... 

  Travis


  On 9/19/2014 11:39 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

--- [ Bill Prince mailto:part...@skylinebroadbandservice.com wrote ]:
---
 

Wait until the euphoria wears off.  I'll bet it hits $60 before the end of 
the year.


bpOn 9/19/2014 9:32 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:


  wheit really tanked there.   below $91

- Original Message - 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.


interesting...i'm listening. lol.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  I disagree... I think today will be an amazing ride... people will 
make a TON of money if their timing is right.

  Travis


  On 9/19/2014 9:05 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

I would not touch that offering with a 10 foot pole.  I see nothing 
but sorrow.  Too much hype.  Too much unknown.


bpOn 9/19/2014 6:41 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:


  Anyone trying to get in on Alibaba's IPO?
  Thoughts?
  Comments?
  Complaints?

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I’m not sure why TVWS has to be based on WiMAX or LTE.  Seems to me you need 4 
things:

- comply with the spectral mask including guardbands
- work with the spectrum database
- bond non-adjacent 6 MHz channels (preferably more than 2)
- connectorized for an external antenna

It will be interesting how close the FCC rules for 3550-3650 follow TVWS.  If 
they are similar, and Cambium modifies their 3650 version of PMP450, that might 
be the critical mass for them to look at a TVWS version.  That assumes they 
could meet the spectrum mask and do channel bonding.  I don’t think there’s any 
obvious reason to an outsider why that would not be possible.

I know, you’re going to say that you need the WiMAX/LTE voodoo.  But do you?  
If you are just trying to go through trees, and you can operate at a frequency 
where the trees become translucent to RF, isn’t that enough voodoo?  We’re not 
trying to do mobile voice+data with call handoffs and multipath from urban 
clutter.  Let’s face it, if 900 MHz had enough spectrum for wider channels and 
wasn’t all polluted from FHSS mesh stuff like smartgrid, it would be fine 
without any magical supersauce from the cellular world.

Maybe I’m wrong about the spectral mask, if the adjacent channel interference 
requirement is too tight to meet with DSP techniques alone.  But with an SDR 
platform you’d certainly have an advantage over trying to do it with a WiFi 
chipset.  Maybe Ubiquiti’s airPrism technology is an attempt to move in that 
direction, although that seems to be on the rcv side.


From: Mike Hammett via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

It's not great, but not as bad as you think. Only the NE most portion of your 
network doesn't have at least two channels available. That's all Runcom needs.

It's not significantly more expensive than the PMP platform and delivers more 
(throughput and range) than PMP in 900.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com







From: "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 8:27:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re:  Dear Cambium

Don't you still have to get an experimental license for TVWS at this 
point? Part of the problem here is that we're too close to the Chicago 
metro broadcast area. There were no usable channels the last time I 
looked at one of the databases. Even in the more rural parts of our 
network farther away from Chicago, maybe there's a chance, but it would 
be too much investment for too little gains. Current cost of the 
available gear, and future gear probably won't be any cheaper. Plus the 
HAAT restrictions.

If you can use it, great! I hope you do, and make lots of money at it. 
Seriously. But I have a genuine fear that the FCC, who has been throwing 
loads of poo at us recently, will change their minds and sunset our 
access to the spectrum while it's being auctioned behind our backs at 
the same time they control our transmitters via database. We'll see how 
the 3550-3700 thing goes.

On 9/19/2014 7:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af wrote:
> You think TVWS is dead? I am curious why.
>
> I feel it's a hope on the next hill over not a dream on the distant 
> horizon.
>
> We are going to trial the Runcom Wimax product ASAP in TVWS. For us, a 
> lot of our area isn't even serviceable with 900mhz (assuming clean 
> spectrum). Customer's less than a mile away would have too many trees 
> for 900 to connect. Yes, even when that 900 was installed 150ft up a 
> tree.
>
> TVWS has the chance to reach lots of those who don't have access to 
> broadband or even cell service. For many people a 2mbps/256kbps is way 
> better than satellite. They can VPN, game, and VOIP. They might not be 
> able to stream high def all day but they can get satellite TV for 
> that. Its the trade off for living so rural.
>
> For the past 6 months we have been deploying Telrad WiMAX in 3.65 and 
> it's coverage and performance has been phenomenal. I am really excited 
> to see what WiMAX applied to TVWS from Runcom can do. There has been 
> talk about how the FSK is still a thriving product. In perfect 
> conditions FSK provides 14mbps aggregate throughput. Runcom is 
> estimating 15-20mbps aggregate throughput in average conditions. You 
> also get 2 APs per Base Station with a built in ASN or use a gateway.

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Take a look at this:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL+Interactive#symbol=AAPL;range=5y

and now imagine you are the advisor who put me (and no doubt other clients) 
into AAPL in September 2012.  You can either call up those clients and say good 
news, after 2 years of staring at a loss, you can finally take a nice profit 
and invest in something else.  Or you can say buy another ticket and take 
another roller coaster ride.

Besides, after years of almost getting negative interest on fixed income (in 
Europe they actually pay banks to park money), there are finally some options 
in stocks that pay dividends and even bond funds that are worthwhile putting 25 
or 30% of your money in, making sure they are short maturity because their 
value will go down once the Fed starts raising interest rates.

But as far as ignoring short term stock market swings, I’m not sure I’d call 2 
years short term.  And if you look at the chart, AAPL looks exactly like it did 
2 years ago.  Sure, it could go up.  But let’s face it, what did they announce. 
 A couple phablets which are really just catching up to competition, and a 
smartwatch for next year.  Samsung is already mocking the iPhone 6+ in their 
Galaxy Note 4 ads, and how sure are you that a $349 smartwatch will be the next 
must-have gadget?  And iPad sales have slowed because once people have one, 
they don’t trade up to the next version like they do phones, and a lot of them 
are WiFi only and not tied to a carrier 2 year cycle.


From: Bruce Robertson via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

I only agree with your investment advisor if you're within 2-5 years of 
retirement and you will be relying on those assets to live on.  Otherwise, 
he/she is steering you wrong.  IMO, of course.  Your example of AAPL 
illustrates exactly why.  You need to totally ignore short term stock market 
swings, and keep some cash on hand for buying when plunges like 2008 happen.  
BTW this takes nerves of steel.


On 09/20/2014 12:24 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  FWIW, my investment advisor got me out of AAPL, and advises decreasing stocks 
at this point especially those that don’t pay dividends and moving a higher 
percentage into bonds.  Of course risk tolerance varies with age (how many 
years you have left to recover from a big loss).  But he evidently feels stocks 
have run up to the point where they are getting risky.

  Regarding AAPL, I had quite a paper loss at one time, finally recovered and 
made a nice profit, but it looked pretty grim for awhile.  The myth was it 
would only go one way - up.  Problem with Apple is they always have to hit it 
out of the park, merely having a good quarter is a disappointment.  It must be 
like being a magician, but if you pulled a rabbit out of your hat last night, 
tonight you need to pull a lion out of the hat, and tomorrow a rhinoceros.  
Wait, I’m thinking of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY5Cg
  I could swear there was one where he pulled Rocky out of the hat.


  From: Mike Hammett via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:03 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  NetFlix and FaceBook haven't even existed "long term".




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com





--

  From: "CBB - Jay Fuller via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:13:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  --- [ "CBB - Jay Fuller" mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net wrote ]:
  ---


  Long term the stocks I'm interested in right now are Apple, Netflix, and 
Facebook.  They all have performed well long term.
  I do not currently have any Netflix but it's also had a bit of a rocky road.  
Look at its one year chart.

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson via Af 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

--- [ Travis Johnson  wrote ]:
--- 

The stock market is not a good "long term" investment, in my opinion 
unless you go into a fund like T. Rowe Price Blue Chip (which has returned me 
30% so far this year). A single stock is just too risky.

The play is the one day in and out game... like this Alibaba stock... 

Travis


On 9/19/2014 11:39 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

--- [ Bill Prince mailto:part...@skylinebroadbandservice.com wrote ]:
---
   

  Wait until the euphoria wears off.  I

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Well, Travis says get in and out in a day.  You say 20-50 years.  That pretty 
much covers any strategy you want to pick.  And some people are putting all 
their money in Bitcoin.

From: Bruce Robertson via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 3:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

I would call two years very short term because my investing horizon is 20+ 
years.   And I'm already (mostly) retired.  (Consulting gigs keep cropping 
up...)  If I were still in my 20s, my horizon would be 50 years.


On 9/20/2014 1:03 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  Take a look at this:
  http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL+Interactive#symbol=AAPL;range=5y

  and now imagine you are the advisor who put me (and no doubt other clients) 
into AAPL in September 2012.  You can either call up those clients and say good 
news, after 2 years of staring at a loss, you can finally take a nice profit 
and invest in something else.  Or you can say buy another ticket and take 
another roller coaster ride.

  Besides, after years of almost getting negative interest on fixed income (in 
Europe they actually pay banks to park money), there are finally some options 
in stocks that pay dividends and even bond funds that are worthwhile putting 25 
or 30% of your money in, making sure they are short maturity because their 
value will go down once the Fed starts raising interest rates.

  But as far as ignoring short term stock market swings, I’m not sure I’d call 
2 years short term.  And if you look at the chart, AAPL looks exactly like it 
did 2 years ago.  Sure, it could go up.  But let’s face it, what did they 
announce.  A couple phablets which are really just catching up to competition, 
and a smartwatch for next year.  Samsung is already mocking the iPhone 6+ in 
their Galaxy Note 4 ads, and how sure are you that a $349 smartwatch will be 
the next must-have gadget?  And iPad sales have slowed because once people have 
one, they don’t trade up to the next version like they do phones, and a lot of 
them are WiFi only and not tied to a carrier 2 year cycle.


  From: Bruce Robertson via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:46 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  I only agree with your investment advisor if you're within 2-5 years of 
retirement and you will be relying on those assets to live on.  Otherwise, 
he/she is steering you wrong.  IMO, of course.  Your example of AAPL 
illustrates exactly why.  You need to totally ignore short term stock market 
swings, and keep some cash on hand for buying when plunges like 2008 happen.  
BTW this takes nerves of steel.


  On 09/20/2014 12:24 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

FWIW, my investment advisor got me out of AAPL, and advises decreasing 
stocks at this point especially those that don’t pay dividends and moving a 
higher percentage into bonds.  Of course risk tolerance varies with age (how 
many years you have left to recover from a big loss).  But he evidently feels 
stocks have run up to the point where they are getting risky.

Regarding AAPL, I had quite a paper loss at one time, finally recovered and 
made a nice profit, but it looked pretty grim for awhile.  The myth was it 
would only go one way - up.  Problem with Apple is they always have to hit it 
out of the park, merely having a good quarter is a disappointment.  It must be 
like being a magician, but if you pulled a rabbit out of your hat last night, 
tonight you need to pull a lion out of the hat, and tomorrow a rhinoceros.  
Wait, I’m thinking of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY5Cg
I could swear there was one where he pulled Rocky out of the hat.


From: Mike Hammett via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

NetFlix and FaceBook haven't even existed "long term".




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com







From: "CBB - Jay Fuller via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 2:13:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

--- [ "CBB - Jay Fuller" mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net wrote ]:
---


Long term the stocks I'm interested in right now are Apple, Netflix, and 
Facebook.  They all have performed well long term.
I do not currently have any Netflix but it's also had a bit of a rocky 
road.  Look at its one year chart.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] to

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

On the Yahoo Finance chart, go to the Events drop-down menu, and put a 
checkmark next to Splits.  Hover over the split marker to get the details.

From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 4:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.


Keep in mind apple has actually splitit was trading what, $400+ a few 
months ago?
I wish charts had some way of showing that but based on what i've been able to 
see, they never do.
All the sources of information (tv, media, charts) just go like it never 
happened

You can google split information.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 3:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  Well, Travis says get in and out in a day.  You say 20-50 years.  That pretty 
much covers any strategy you want to pick.  And some people are putting all 
their money in Bitcoin.

  From: Bruce Robertson via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 3:17 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  I would call two years very short term because my investing horizon is 20+ 
years.   And I'm already (mostly) retired.  (Consulting gigs keep cropping 
up...)  If I were still in my 20s, my horizon would be 50 years.


  On 9/20/2014 1:03 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Take a look at this:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL+Interactive#symbol=AAPL;range=5y

and now imagine you are the advisor who put me (and no doubt other clients) 
into AAPL in September 2012.  You can either call up those clients and say good 
news, after 2 years of staring at a loss, you can finally take a nice profit 
and invest in something else.  Or you can say buy another ticket and take 
another roller coaster ride.

Besides, after years of almost getting negative interest on fixed income 
(in Europe they actually pay banks to park money), there are finally some 
options in stocks that pay dividends and even bond funds that are worthwhile 
putting 25 or 30% of your money in, making sure they are short maturity because 
their value will go down once the Fed starts raising interest rates.

But as far as ignoring short term stock market swings, I’m not sure I’d 
call 2 years short term.  And if you look at the chart, AAPL looks exactly like 
it did 2 years ago.  Sure, it could go up.  But let’s face it, what did they 
announce.  A couple phablets which are really just catching up to competition, 
and a smartwatch for next year.  Samsung is already mocking the iPhone 6+ in 
their Galaxy Note 4 ads, and how sure are you that a $349 smartwatch will be 
the next must-have gadget?  And iPad sales have slowed because once people have 
one, they don’t trade up to the next version like they do phones, and a lot of 
them are WiFi only and not tied to a carrier 2 year cycle.


From: Bruce Robertson via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

I only agree with your investment advisor if you're within 2-5 years of 
retirement and you will be relying on those assets to live on.  Otherwise, 
he/she is steering you wrong.  IMO, of course.  Your example of AAPL 
illustrates exactly why.  You need to totally ignore short term stock market 
swings, and keep some cash on hand for buying when plunges like 2008 happen.  
BTW this takes nerves of steel.


    On 09/20/2014 12:24 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  FWIW, my investment advisor got me out of AAPL, and advises decreasing 
stocks at this point especially those that don’t pay dividends and moving a 
higher percentage into bonds.  Of course risk tolerance varies with age (how 
many years you have left to recover from a big loss).  But he evidently feels 
stocks have run up to the point where they are getting risky.

  Regarding AAPL, I had quite a paper loss at one time, finally recovered 
and made a nice profit, but it looked pretty grim for awhile.  The myth was it 
would only go one way - up.  Problem with Apple is they always have to hit it 
out of the park, merely having a good quarter is a disappointment.  It must be 
like being a magician, but if you pulled a rabbit out of your hat last night, 
tonight you need to pull a lion out of the hat, and tomorrow a rhinoceros.  
Wait, I’m thinking of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY5Cg
  I could swear there was one where he pulled Rocky out of the hat.


  From: Mike Hammett via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:03 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

  NetFlix and FaceBook haven't even existed "long term".




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Inte

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Ooooh, that's a lot of xmt power.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Jenkins via Af

Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 5:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium

You don't need WiMAX/LTE voodoo for TVWS. Sure there are some advantages
but there are also disadvantages. What you do need is a tight enough
spectral mask and the TX power.

Runcom already had a WiMAX product that operated from 700mhz to 5ghz
built on an SDR designed to use 5mhz or 6mhz channels and supported
channel bonding. They were able to modify their existing product to work
within TVWS frequencies. Using 5mhz channels (or 10mhz for channel
bonding) they were able to meet the spectral mask requirements for TVWS.
Their product already had a call home feature for a central management
system. I wouldn't be surprised if they leveraged most of that design to
work with the database. They didn't have to bring an entirely new
product to market.

One of the other major consideration is TX power. Fixed stations can
transmit 30dbm and have a 6db antenna (36db EIRP). There isn't a lot of
antenna gain available without getting very large. So radios need to
have very high TX power built in. If Cambium were to build a 450 product
they would need to reevaluate their stance on TX power. I would want to
see a radio with at least 28db of TX power available.

900mhz, even in clean spectrum, still doesn't provide the coverage a lot
of this county needs to reach the rural areas. TVWS can go as low as
470mhz. Even the upper channels around 600mhz have significantly more
foliage penetration than that of 900mhz.

I would like to see a DSSS product whereby an AP can TX on two or four
combined channels and RX on a different single channel.



Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000

On 09/20/2014 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
I’m not sure why TVWS has to be based on WiMAX or LTE. Seems to me you 
need 4 things:

- comply with the spectral mask including guardbands
- work with the spectrum database
- bond non-adjacent 6 MHz channels (preferably more than 2)
- connectorized for an external antenna
It will be interesting how close the FCC rules for 3550-3650 follow TVWS. 
If they are similar, and Cambium modifies their 3650 version of PMP450, 
that might be the critical mass for them to look at a TVWS version.  That 
assumes they could meet the spectrum mask and do channel bonding.  I don’t 
think there’s any obvious reason to an outsider why that would not be 
possible.
I know, you’re going to say that you need the WiMAX/LTE voodoo.  But do 
you?  If you are just trying to go through trees, and you can operate at a 
frequency where the trees become translucent to RF, isn’t that enough 
voodoo?  We’re not trying to do mobile voice+data with call handoffs and 
multipath from urban clutter.  Let’s face it, if 900 MHz had enough 
spectrum for wider channels and wasn’t all polluted from FHSS mesh stuff 
like smartgrid, it would be fine without any magical supersauce from the 
cellular world.
Maybe I’m wrong about the spectral mask, if the adjacent channel 
interference requirement is too tight to meet with DSP techniques alone. 
But with an SDR platform you’d certainly have an advantage over trying to 
do it with a WiFi chipset.  Maybe Ubiquiti’s airPrism technology is an 
attempt to move in that direction, although that seems to be on the rcv 
side.

*From:* Mike Hammett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re: Dear Cambium
It's not great, but not as bad as you think. Only the NE most portion of 
your network doesn't have at least two channels available. That's all 
Runcom needs.


It's not significantly more expensive than the PMP platform and delivers 
more (throughput and range) than PMP in 900.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>


*From: *"George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, September 19, 2014 8:27:15 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] TVWS Alive or Dead? Was: Re:  Dear Cambium

Don't you still have to get an experimental license for TVWS at this
point? Part of the problem here is that we're too close to the Chicago
metro broadcast area. There were no usable channels the last time I
looked at one of the databases. Even in the more rural parts of our
network farther away from Chicago, maybe there's a chance, but it would
be too much investment for too little gains. Current cost of the
available gear, and future gear probab

Re: [AFMUG] Direct receiving station (DRS) 7.3m antenna

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Maybe this is still for sale:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/us/jamesburg-earth-station-can-be-yours-for-3-million.html

From: Eric Kuhnke via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct receiving station (DRS) 7.3m antenna

I know plenty of earth stations with 7.3 meter and larger size dishes. 


By "tracking", do you want a full azimuth/elevation tracking system intended 
for TT&C / launch operations (fully agile, rapid), or do you want an earth 
station antenna capable of tracking an inclined orbit geostationary satellite?  
The two types of tracking are very different things.


You know 8 GHz / X-band is a DoD and NATO frequency range in North America?  
What are you trying to do?





On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Sean Heskett via Af  wrote:

  By chance does anyone in North America (hopefully in the western US or 
Canada)  know how to gain access to a low cost Direct  receiving station with a 
7.3meter antenna that can send and receive (and track a satellite) in the 8ghz 
band??? 

  Thanks,

  Sean 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I spent about 25 years in telecom product design.  Before something could be 
released to manufacturing, lots of groups had veto power including QA and field 
service who would get prototypes and install them per the documentation.  I 
think with the time-to-market demands today, overseas manufacturing, and the 
philosophy of release the HW and then fix everything in SW, some of that has 
gone by the wayside.  Also, selling to ILECs, a handful of customers were very 
powerful and could kick a product back for what seemed like a minor issue.  
Telcos hate OPEX and will not tolerate equipment that requires more labor than 
necessary.  We even had to get approval for the packaging, putting it through 
drop and shake tests, and would sometimes ship it to a field sales guy and have 
him ship it back and see how it survived.

Maybe product managers need to recruit friends and relatives who have never 
seen the product before, give them a prototype and the documentation and see if 
they can assemble and install it.  Then try again outside on a cold windy day 
while standing on a ladder.

And isn’t it strange, supposedly labor is so cheap in Asia, but these things 
always come as kits.


From: David Milholen via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

OMG :)


On 9/21/2014 10:28 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

  Does anyone know why the Force 100 has not been recalled for being an 
absolutely dreadful product? I think the designers of the Force 100 looked at 
the NanoBridge and said how can we make this worse. *slow clap* Give them a 
bonus for they succeeded. I bought 12 units because of an emergency and now I'm 
not sure how far I'll be able to go as I surely won't be able to get the 
required 10 units even assembled.


1.. Why so much assembly?

2.. I'm reminded of 2004 by the amount of coax that needs to be sealed. 
Ubiquiti got it right with IP67 connectors and those little rubber boots on the 
Rockets. 
3.. If we're sealing the coax on the radio, why the rubber boot and zip 
ties? Surely they aren't more at risk than the N connectors on the antenna.

4.. That feedhorn assembly is the worst! Does everything look stable? Yup. 
Okay, screw in the set screws. Check. Everything look good? Feedhorn falls out. 
WTF. Oh, apparently it wasn't all the way in. Try again. No. Try again. No. Try 
again? Can't because by now the set screws are striped and I can't get them 
out. I can't blame them for they should only be fastened once. Try another 
unit. Nope, this feedhorn just won't go all the way in. Now I'm not certain 
that the first two that actually went together are together correctly. Yes, I 
separated the dish from the mount in an attempt to 

5.. I like the flexibility of the mount, but that is just a massive hunk of 
steel and too complex for a CPE. 
6.. Is the idea of a simple clip like the Rocket too easy? Did someone need 
a science project?

7.. For the record, I have correctly assembled (on the first try) a few 
Jirous dishes and they're a bear. 
  Can I drive them all up to Rolling Ghettos today and have you guys assemble 
them for me? I need them actually operational by the AM.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com







-- 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

We did a bare SM the other day 0.6 miles –58 and 8X in a 10 MHz channel, that 
tells me we can go a lot farther without a dish, probably 1.5 miles or more.  
Or are you talking about through trees?  I have not been impressed with 
performance through trees, even with a dish.  But I’m not happy with –80 and 
4X, I don’t want to eat up all the capacity on such an expensive piece of gear 
with just a few subs.  And I don’t want customers calling every time the leaves 
get wet or covered with snow.

At some point I think we’ll see something similar to the Force100 but for now 
it’s a dish or a connectorized SM with a panel.  When I asked about a 
Stinger/CLIP type of product, I was told the size at 2.4 or 3.65 GHz get too 
big or else the gain isn’t worth it.

From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


We didn't get very far without a dish ; what are you seeing in terms of how far 
you can get before you have a dish?
Are you using a dish with most, or is there a stinger available or something 
"mid-term" ? 

Must be honest, we haven't tried the dish yet.  Need to very soon as fall is 
basically here...


  - Original Message - 
  From: David Milholen via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

  Chris,
  We are rockin 3.65 450 AB channels replacing 90% of our 900 subs. Migration 
is taking time due to cap X.
  I took down our first 900AP which was our first aP900 installed last week.



  On 9/19/2014 4:34 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

I love the 450, 450 is awesome, but 90% of our subs are on 900 MHz, what do we 
do there, where is our upgrade path, what is the replacement for PMP100 in 900 
MHz?  
We have no alternative to 900 for most of our customers where we are, too many 
hills and trees.  We are still deploying 900 MHz radios in large quantities 
simply because we can't use anything else.  Sure would be nice to have an easy 
way to configure those radios, we (Animal Farm) have only been asking for that 
feature for the last 8 years, not like they didn't know about it or have the 
time to figure it out.  Now they are giving it to us, but only on a platform 
where we don't really need it yet.

While I understand that PMP100 is somewhat antiquated, Cambium is still making 
money on it and will continue to make money on it, so why not give us at least 
some development beyond bug fixes at least until there is a 900 replacement?  
Why not a 450 in 900 MHz that's using the newer hardware but still only 2x 
modulation. We would literally buy thousands of them within the next year.



  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I remember a long time ago, probably in the mid 80’s, going on an IEEE tour of 
the test labs at Motorola.  Something I remember is the wind driven dust tests 
they did on cellphones and that they even had special dust made to their specs.


From: Chuck McCown via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

Back when Motorola made the product, there was interest to either OEM or 
outright buy the stinger.  Some progress was made in that direction.  At one 
point they wanted to do the shake rattle and roll test as well as all the 6 
point drop tests of the shipping cartons etc.  Almost seems like there was a 
liquid spray test involved too.

Wonder if Cambium is still doing all that.  

From: Ken Hohhof via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

I spent about 25 years in telecom product design.  Before something could be 
released to manufacturing, lots of groups had veto power including QA and field 
service who would get prototypes and install them per the documentation.  I 
think with the time-to-market demands today, overseas manufacturing, and the 
philosophy of release the HW and then fix everything in SW, some of that has 
gone by the wayside.  Also, selling to ILECs, a handful of customers were very 
powerful and could kick a product back for what seemed like a minor issue.  
Telcos hate OPEX and will not tolerate equipment that requires more labor than 
necessary.  We even had to get approval for the packaging, putting it through 
drop and shake tests, and would sometimes ship it to a field sales guy and have 
him ship it back and see how it survived.

Maybe product managers need to recruit friends and relatives who have never 
seen the product before, give them a prototype and the documentation and see if 
they can assemble and install it.  Then try again outside on a cold windy day 
while standing on a ladder.

And isn’t it strange, supposedly labor is so cheap in Asia, but these things 
always come as kits.


From: David Milholen via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 100 - Dysfunctional Rube Goldberg

OMG :)


On 9/21/2014 10:28 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

  Does anyone know why the Force 100 has not been recalled for being an 
absolutely dreadful product? I think the designers of the Force 100 looked at 
the NanoBridge and said how can we make this worse. *slow clap* Give them a 
bonus for they succeeded. I bought 12 units because of an emergency and now I'm 
not sure how far I'll be able to go as I surely won't be able to get the 
required 10 units even assembled.


1.. Why so much assembly?

2.. I'm reminded of 2004 by the amount of coax that needs to be sealed. 
Ubiquiti got it right with IP67 connectors and those little rubber boots on the 
Rockets. 
3.. If we're sealing the coax on the radio, why the rubber boot and zip 
ties? Surely they aren't more at risk than the N connectors on the antenna.

4.. That feedhorn assembly is the worst! Does everything look stable? Yup. 
Okay, screw in the set screws. Check. Everything look good? Feedhorn falls out. 
WTF. Oh, apparently it wasn't all the way in. Try again. No. Try again. No. Try 
again? Can't because by now the set screws are striped and I can't get them 
out. I can't blame them for they should only be fastened once. Try another 
unit. Nope, this feedhorn just won't go all the way in. Now I'm not certain 
that the first two that actually went together are together correctly. Yes, I 
separated the dish from the mount in an attempt to 

5.. I like the flexibility of the mount, but that is just a massive hunk of 
steel and too complex for a CPE. 
6.. Is the idea of a simple clip like the Rocket too easy? Did someone need 
a science project?

7.. For the record, I have correctly assembled (on the first try) a few 
Jirous dishes and they're a bear. 
  Can I drive them all up to Rolling Ghettos today and have you guys assemble 
them for me? I need them actually operational by the AM.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com







-- 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Why do you say that?  I’m not deploying it to go through trees.  I even have a 
tower with 4 sectors of 3.65 plus a 900 MHz FSK panel pointed toward an area 
with those pesky green things because I don’t expect the 3.65 to go there 
unless it’s a short link with maybe a tree or two in the middle somewhere, same 
as I would do with 2.4 GHz.

I view 3.65 as spectrum not fouled by consumer devices or FHSS, and so far the 
only WISP we can see is using Ubiquiti so if we stay in the upper 25 MHz we 
should not bump heads with them.  And the prospect of an additional 100 MHz of 
spectrum in the future is a plus.  Even though it is not licensed exclusive 
use, you don’t have interference from every Tom, Dick and Harry.  I am viewing 
it kind of like a replacement for 2.4 GHz with the possibility of getting 
access to 3550-3650 in the future.

So should we assume that when people say they are not getting much distance in 
3.65 with bare SMs, it is not a comment on the 450 product per se, but the lack 
of magical foliage penetrating power?  Also, it would help to know if people 
are using the Cambium sectors, third party sectors, or omnis.  I have a couple 
dual pol omnis in 5 GHz and the distance is unimpressive, I don’t think I’d try 
an omni in 3.65 especially if I was trying to go through trees and not use a 
dish, that’s 3 strikes against you.  Maybe 4 strikes if you consider no 
WIMAX/LTE super sauce.

I really wish people would loosen their grip on the concept that the main 
reason to consider PMP450 in 3.65 GHz is for NLOS.  Even if that works for you, 
it’s way too narrow a view of the product.


From: CBB - Jay Fullervia Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


Surely ppl using 3.65 are going through trees ?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone


- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium
Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 12:14 PM




We did a bare SM the other day 0.6 miles –58 and 8X in a 10 MHz channel, that 
tells me we can go a lot farther without a dish, probably 1.5 miles or more.  
Or are you talking about through trees?  I have not been impressed with 
performance through trees, even with a dish.  But I’m not happy with –80 and 
4X, I don’t want to eat up all the capacity on such an expensive piece of gear 
with just a few subs.  And I don’t want customers calling every time the leaves 
get wet or covered with snow.

At some point I think we’ll see something similar to the Force100 but for now 
it’s a dish or a connectorized SM with a panel.  When I asked about a 
Stinger/CLIP type of product, I was told the size at 2.4 or 3.65 GHz get too 
big or else the gain isn’t worth it.

From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


We didn't get very far without a dish ; what are you seeing in terms of how far 
you can get before you have a dish?
Are you using a dish with most, or is there a stinger available or something 
"mid-term" ? 

Must be honest, we haven't tried the dish yet.  Need to very soon as fall is 
basically here...


  - Original Message - 
  From: David Milholen via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

  Chris,
  We are rockin 3.65 450 AB channels replacing 90% of our 900 subs. Migration 
is taking time due to cap X.
  I took down our first 900AP which was our first aP900 installed last week.



  On 9/19/2014 4:34 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

I love the 450, 450 is awesome, but 90% of our subs are on 900 MHz, what do we 
do there, where is our upgrade path, what is the replacement for PMP100 in 900 
MHz?  
We have no alternative to 900 for most of our customers where we are, too many 
hills and trees.  We are still deploying 900 MHz radios in large quantities 
simply because we can't use anything else.  Sure would be nice to have an easy 
way to configure those radios, we (Animal Farm) have only been asking for that 
feature for the last 8 years, not like they didn't know about it or have the 
time to figure it out.  Now they are giving it to us, but only on a platform 
where we don't really need it yet.

While I understand that PMP100 is somewhat antiquated, Cambium is still making 
money on it and will continue to make money on it, so why not give us at least 
some development beyond bug fixes at least until there is a 900 replacement?  
Why not a 450 in 900 MHz that's using the newer hardware but still only 2x 
modulation. We would literally buy thousands of them within the next year.



  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

That does not seem right.  What does LinkPlanner say you should get?

Are you getting –73 at both the AP and the SM?

Is this with a Cambium 90 degree sector at the AP end?

Any downtilt, and if so, how much?

Are you near the edge of the sector?

Are you using a 10 MHz channel?  The 1W/MHz EIRP rule will punish you if you 
use a narrower channel.

But even limiting your xmt EIRP at the SM to +40 dBm, it seems you should have 
around –61 at the SM and –64 at the AP.

With clear LOS, I don’t see why the signal should deviate substantially from a 
free space loss calculation.


From: Craig House via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

My 4.7 mile link at - 73 with the dish is not going through any trees it's 
actually tower to tower

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2014, at 14:10, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:


  Why do you say that?  I’m not deploying it to go through trees.  I even have 
a tower with 4 sectors of 3.65 plus a 900 MHz FSK panel pointed toward an area 
with those pesky green things because I don’t expect the 3.65 to go there 
unless it’s a short link with maybe a tree or two in the middle somewhere, same 
as I would do with 2.4 GHz.

  I view 3.65 as spectrum not fouled by consumer devices or FHSS, and so far 
the only WISP we can see is using Ubiquiti so if we stay in the upper 25 MHz we 
should not bump heads with them.  And the prospect of an additional 100 MHz of 
spectrum in the future is a plus.  Even though it is not licensed exclusive 
use, you don’t have interference from every Tom, Dick and Harry.  I am viewing 
it kind of like a replacement for 2.4 GHz with the possibility of getting 
access to 3550-3650 in the future.

  So should we assume that when people say they are not getting much distance 
in 3.65 with bare SMs, it is not a comment on the 450 product per se, but the 
lack of magical foliage penetrating power?  Also, it would help to know if 
people are using the Cambium sectors, third party sectors, or omnis.  I have a 
couple dual pol omnis in 5 GHz and the distance is unimpressive, I don’t think 
I’d try an omni in 3.65 especially if I was trying to go through trees and not 
use a dish, that’s 3 strikes against you.  Maybe 4 strikes if you consider no 
WIMAX/LTE super sauce.

  I really wish people would loosen their grip on the concept that the main 
reason to consider PMP450 in 3.65 GHz is for NLOS.  Even if that works for you, 
it’s way too narrow a view of the product.


  From: CBB - Jay Fullervia Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:21 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


  Surely ppl using 3.65 are going through trees ?

  Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone


  - Reply message -
  From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
  To: 
  Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium
  Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 12:14 PM




  We did a bare SM the other day 0.6 miles –58 and 8X in a 10 MHz channel, that 
tells me we can go a lot farther without a dish, probably 1.5 miles or more.  
Or are you talking about through trees?  I have not been impressed with 
performance through trees, even with a dish.  But I’m not happy with –80 and 
4X, I don’t want to eat up all the capacity on such an expensive piece of gear 
with just a few subs.  And I don’t want customers calling every time the leaves 
get wet or covered with snow.

  At some point I think we’ll see something similar to the Force100 but for now 
it’s a dish or a connectorized SM with a panel.  When I asked about a 
Stinger/CLIP type of product, I was told the size at 2.4 or 3.65 GHz get too 
big or else the gain isn’t worth it.

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


  We didn't get very far without a dish ; what are you seeing in terms of how 
far you can get before you have a dish?
  Are you using a dish with most, or is there a stinger available or something 
"mid-term" ? 

  Must be honest, we haven't tried the dish yet.  Need to very soon as fall is 
basically here...


- Original Message - 
From: David Milholen via Af 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Chris,
We are rockin 3.65 450 AB channels replacing 90% of our 900 subs. Migration 
is taking time due to cap X.
I took down our first 900AP which was our first aP900 installed last week.



On 9/19/2014 4:34 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

I love the 450, 450 is awesome, but 90% of our subs are on 900 MHz, what do we 
do there, where is our upgrade path, what is the replacement for PMP100 in 900 
MHz?  
We have no alternative to 900 for most of our customers where we are, too many 
hills and trees.  We are still deploying 900 MHz radios in large quan

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Understand the one less model to stock, also the 3.65 SMs are more expensive.

Not sure I understand the more power part.  Spec sheet says 2.4 AP goes up to 
+22 dBm, 3.65 up to +23.  And FCC limits EIRP at AP to +36 dBm in 2.4 GHz but 
+40 dBm in 3.65 GHz (+43 in a 20 MHz channel).  The weakness in 3.65 would be 
there is no PTP rule, so 2.4 might have a slight advantage in the upstream 
direction if you use a dish.


From: Craig House via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 3:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

This is currently on a 3.65 omni but it started with a 90 degree sector and I 
actually got the same or just minimally worse results with the omni so I left 
it figuring I would never fill up a ABAB arrangement of of 90 degree sectors.  
I actually put up the sector and then installed the SM on the remote tower.  I 
then went back and tried to sight in the 3.65 sector on just that particular 
SM.  I was not trying to dedicate it to that sm just trying to see what kind of 
signal I could get at best case.  Originally I had lots of trouble getting it 
to even register.until I got some of the new KP dishes I ended up with about 1 
degree downtilt on the 90 degree.  I have not used the link planner to check 
the signal but we have tried hours upon hours to make it better and have 
decided it is just not worth it when 2.4 450 kicks its butt all over the place 
and with more power and better NLOS options it makes more sense.  Especially 
since we have already deployed 2.4 450 clusters at other towers so this is on 
one less radio we have to stock for replacement.  




From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:51:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


That does not seem right.  What does LinkPlanner say you should get?

Are you getting –73 at both the AP and the SM?

Is this with a Cambium 90 degree sector at the AP end?

Any downtilt, and if so, how much?

Are you near the edge of the sector?

Are you using a 10 MHz channel?  The 1W/MHz EIRP rule will punish you if you 
use a narrower channel.

But even limiting your xmt EIRP at the SM to +40 dBm, it seems you should have 
around –61 at the SM and –64 at the AP.

With clear LOS, I don’t see why the signal should deviate substantially from a 
free space loss calculation.


From: Craig House via Af
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium

My 4.7 mile link at - 73 with the dish is not going through any trees it's 
actually tower to tower


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2014, at 14:10, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:


  Why do you say that?  I’m not deploying it to go through trees.  I even have 
a tower with 4 sectors of 3.65 plus a 900 MHz FSK panel pointed toward an area 
with those pesky green things because I don’t expect the 3.65 to go there 
unless it’s a short link with maybe a tree or two in the middle somewhere, same 
as I would do with 2.4 GHz.

  I view 3.65 as spectrum not fouled by consumer devices or FHSS, and so far 
the only WISP we can see is using Ubiquiti so if we stay in the upper 25 MHz we 
should not bump heads with them.  And the prospect of an additional 100 MHz of 
spectrum in the future is a plus.  Even though it is not licensed exclusive 
use, you don’t have interference from every Tom, Dick and Harry.  I am viewing 
it kind of like a replacement for 2.4 GHz with the possibility of getting 
access to 3550-3650 in the future.

  So should we assume that when people say they are not getting much distance 
in 3.65 with bare SMs, it is not a comment on the 450 product per se, but the 
lack of magical foliage penetrating power?  Also, it would help to know if 
people are using the Cambium sectors, third party sectors, or omnis.  I have a 
couple dual pol omnis in 5 GHz and the distance is unimpressive, I don’t think 
I’d try an omni in 3.65 especially if I was trying to go through trees and not 
use a dish, that’s 3 strikes against you.  Maybe 4 strikes if you consider no 
WIMAX/LTE super sauce.

  I really wish people would loosen their grip on the concept that the main 
reason to consider PMP450 in 3.65 GHz is for NLOS.  Even if that works for you, 
it’s way too narrow a view of the product.


  From: CBB - Jay Fullervia Af
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:21 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium


  Surely ppl using 3.65 are going through trees ?


  Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone


  - Reply message -----
  From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" 
  To: 
  Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 pmp450 results - was Dear Cambium
  Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 12:14 PM



  We did a bare SM the other day 0.6 miles –58 and 8X in a 10 MHz channel, that 
tells me we can go a lot farther without a dish, p

Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

If you are really curious, you could ask them why they think that.

But if you try to figure out how the brains of every one of your customers 
works, you will scramble your own brain.

I do remember a guy I knew in college who was trying to get his ham radio 
equipment working in his apartment, and gave up about the time his upstairs 
neighbor banged on the steam radiator.  A few days later, the neighbor saw him 
in the hall and asked if the radiators were interfering with his TV also.  
Being kind of a dick, my buddy said yes, now that you mention it, I think I 
have noticed that.  So whenever he had people over he would show them his 
entertaining trick, he would key the transmitter until the neighbor banged on 
the pipes, then turn it off.

This is how superstitions and folk remedies start.


From: Mathew Howard via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 3:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

I've seen the same... on 900mhz and 2.4ghz, anytime you're shooting through 
trees, the wind can have at least some effect, but on LOS? No well, I guess 
maybe if you have, say, a couple of 3' dishes on a Rohn 25 :-P 




From: Af [af-bounces+mathew=litewire@afmug.com] on behalf of CBB - Jay 
Fuller via Af [af@afmug.com]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 2:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?



I think i've seen that impact 900 mhz signals ; more wind blowing around, 
needles blowing everywhere, affecting signal swings by 5-6-even 10 db...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 2:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

  Blowing their dish around?

  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
  SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

  On 09/22/2014 11:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

Why do some customers ask if it's caused by "the wind" if they're having a 
problem.� Do they picture the wind blowing microwaves out of the sky? 

It was asked today by somebody I thought would know better. 

"It's windy today.� Do you think it's the wind?� I'm pretty sure it 
happened once before and I think there was wind on that day too.� It must be 
the wind." 

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Yeah, when I want to know the real facts, I always look to Light Reading.

There is nothing new in this article.  We still know pretty much zilch.


From: Eric Kuhnke via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/backhaul/exclusive-microwave-maven-exalt-is-cooked/d/d-id/710995?


Exclusive: Microwave Maven Exalt is Cooked
News Analysis
Dan Jones, Mobile Editor
9/22/2014 Comment (6)Login

50%
50%
inShare2Microwave maven Exalt Communications appears to have shut up shop after 
10 years in the backhaul business, Light Reading has learned.

Industry sources say Exalt Communications Inc. has gone under. The company was 
started in 2004 by Western Multiplex president Amir Zoufonoun, who acted as CEO 
from the beginning, and was focused on selling microwave backhaul to mobile 
operators and wireless ISPs. (See Exalt Beams Up Microwaves and US Wireless 
ISPs: What's on Their Minds?)

Multiple calls by Light Reading to the Campbell, Calif.-based company's main 
switchboard were sent straight to voicemail Monday afternoon. The customer care 
support line also goes to voicemail.

"Their office doesn't seem to be open...doors closed and parking lot empty," 
says one source, who had heard the company may be undergoing a change of 
ownership.

Pam Valentine, VP of outbound marketing at Exalt, meanwhile, is still listed on 
the website as the media contact for the company, but left this month, 
according to her LinkedIn profile. She has not responded to calls or an email 
from Light Reading as this article was published.




Hey, backhaul sounds like a fun business to be in doesn't it? Find out more by 
visiting Light Reading's dedicated backhaul channel. 



The company's last update on its own LinkedIn page was 5 months ago and its 
last press release was issued on July 16.

CEO Zoufonoun, however, is still currently listed as the head of the company on 
his LinkedIn profile.

The company had raised almost $30 million in VC funding. The last $15 million 
series C round was closed in February 2009.

On its website the company, which competes with the likes of Ceragon Networks 
Ltd. (Nasdaq: CRNT), DragonWave Inc. (AIM/Toronto: DWI; Nasdaq: DRWI) and Siklu 
Communications Ltd. among others, claims to have more than 2,000 customers 
globally, though it seems many of these may be enterprise customers and very 
small ISPs. (See Exalt Raises $15M.)

We'll update the story with any further details that come in.

— Dan Jones, Mobile Editor, Light Reading

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Dangerous to speculate, not enough actual information.  I would observe that a 
bankruptcy is hard to hide for long, documents need to filed with courts, and 
creditors need to be notified.  On the other hand, it seems that ownership 
changes can be kept secret for at least a couple months.  We see it all the 
time when WISPs are purchased.  I wonder if someone bought them and they are 
trying to time the announcement with a show or something.  If so, that seems to 
be backfiring.  Maybe they use the same PR consultant as the NFL.


From: cstanners--- via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

This is scary, I hope they're just reorganizing, not really closed - not good 
to lose competition. Their licensed radios looked really good, and the 
unlicensed, while quite 'dumb' RF-wise, were solidly built.



From: Eric Kuhnke via Af  
Sender: "Af"  
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 00:53:27 +
To: af@afmug.com
ReplyTo: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/backhaul/exclusive-microwave-maven-exalt-is-cooked/d/d-id/710995?


Exclusive: Microwave Maven Exalt is Cooked
News Analysis
Dan Jones, Mobile Editor
9/22/2014 Comment (6)Login

50%
50%
inShare2Microwave maven Exalt Communications appears to have shut up shop after 
10 years in the backhaul business, Light Reading has learned.

Industry sources say Exalt Communications Inc. has gone under. The company was 
started in 2004 by Western Multiplex president Amir Zoufonoun, who acted as CEO 
from the beginning, and was focused on selling microwave backhaul to mobile 
operators and wireless ISPs. (See Exalt Beams Up Microwaves and US Wireless 
ISPs: What's on Their Minds?)

Multiple calls by Light Reading to the Campbell, Calif.-based company's main 
switchboard were sent straight to voicemail Monday afternoon. The customer care 
support line also goes to voicemail.

"Their office doesn't seem to be open...doors closed and parking lot empty," 
says one source, who had heard the company may be undergoing a change of 
ownership.

Pam Valentine, VP of outbound marketing at Exalt, meanwhile, is still listed on 
the website as the media contact for the company, but left this month, 
according to her LinkedIn profile. She has not responded to calls or an email 
from Light Reading as this article was published.




Hey, backhaul sounds like a fun business to be in doesn't it? Find out more by 
visiting Light Reading's dedicated backhaul channel. 



The company's last update on its own LinkedIn page was 5 months ago and its 
last press release was issued on July 16.

CEO Zoufonoun, however, is still currently listed as the head of the company on 
his LinkedIn profile.

The company had raised almost $30 million in VC funding. The last $15 million 
series C round was closed in February 2009.

On its website the company, which competes with the likes of Ceragon Networks 
Ltd. (Nasdaq: CRNT), DragonWave Inc. (AIM/Toronto: DWI; Nasdaq: DRWI) and Siklu 
Communications Ltd. among others, claims to have more than 2,000 customers 
globally, though it seems many of these may be enterprise customers and very 
small ISPs. (See Exalt Raises $15M.)

We'll update the story with any further details that come in.

— Dan Jones, Mobile Editor, Light Reading

Re: [AFMUG] That ain't right, part 2

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Your theory sounds good to me except the part about trees causing it, much more 
likely row crops like corn or beans.  It can be interesting to sweep the 
elevation on a dish with a tone alignment tool connected.  I’ve seen 
reflections off corn so strong we gave up and had to point at the corn and 
figure we’d be back at harvest time.  I’ve seen a reflection that is stronger 
over an elevation range of 10-15 degrees than the main path.  Worst situation 
seems to be if there’s a very shallow valley between the 2 points, so that it’s 
not just a single reflection point.

It takes a very narrow beam to separate the main path from the ground 
reflections, it probably helps that you are 160 ft AGL, usually at a customer 
site it’s not possible unless it’s a very short link.


From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 10:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] That ain't right, part 2

I lost the original thread for some reason. Anyway... we encountered the same 
problem with a different radio. Was a KP reflector, but we used a connectorized 
SM on a 2' Laird HD dish as a replacement since the link needed some more power 
anyway. Got it up, started final alignment and bam! like a lightswitch, H pol 
power level dropped to -89, V SNR low, H SNR higher just like before. Changed 
elevation a little bit and it came back to normal. I had the guys move 
elevation again just so I could believe what I was seeing. Somehow we have a 
reflection that is now apparently just outside of the beamwidth of the 2' dish. 
Hopefully. At least that's my theory. It's up 160' on a grain leg about 4 miles 
to the main site. I wonder if the reflection point is the tops of the trees at 
some mid point. Maybe MIMO-A will help if this starts happening again.

Here's the new SM link status. It's been stable since. Really strange how the 
multipath was swinging back and forth on the reflector. I guess you get to 
learn/hate RF more and more every day.

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

What would be ironic is if Cambium is going to announce at Wispalooza that they 
bought Exalt.


From: Eric Kuhnke via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

I don't think Cambium cares, the PTP800 and PTP810 are marketed so heavily to 
government/institutional/enterprise customers that they consider themselves to 
be in a whole different price range. At least when compared to what you can get 
for a single polarity, 1024QAM, 40MHz wide, full-ODU licensed band system under 
$7000 with antennas these days.


On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Mark Radabaugh via Af  wrote:

  Reality Check to Cambium. 

  Mark

  On 9/23/14, 9:24 AM, Eric Kuhnke via Af wrote:

It is kind of obvious when you look at it. In the last 18 months every one 
of their competitors has developed and released a 1024QAM part 101 band 
product. Exalt's top-end product is still 256QAM and 20W more power hungry than 
the competition. 

If they did not scrape up the R&D funding to develop and put into 
production keeping them in sync with every one of their current competition's 
products, that is a worrisome sign.


On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:01 AM, Tushar Patel via Af  wrote:

  "Business as usual", speaking that may not translate in practice. For 
example, we were about to buy 10 links and had simple question, we could never 
get hold of sales rep who was helping us promptly before, for 2 weeks we have 
not been able to get simple answers. I think Matt posted here, they had sent 
unit for repair and was suppose to take 30 days to repair and it has been 60 
days and was having difficult time getting hold off, or getting the unit. Light 
reading reports support call going straight to voice mail.  If this is business 
as usual for exalt we will have hard time if we run into issues with products 
in the field or if we need any kind of support. Current level of response from 
them is not even at functional level.

  Tushar 


  On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:20 PM, Steve Utick via Af  wrote:


I've talked to sales reps that have talked to Exalt Staff, and have 
said what was already posted, they were bought out, doing a major re-org due to 
the purchase, but still operating business as usual.



On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Bruce Robertson via Af  
wrote:

  Like I said earlier, there's no evidence that I can find of a BK 
filing.


      On 09/22/2014 07:17 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Dangerous to speculate, not enough actual information.  I would 
observe that a bankruptcy is hard to hide for long, documents need to filed 
with courts, and creditors need to be notified.  On the other hand, it seems 
that ownership changes can be kept secret for at least a couple months.  We see 
it all the time when WISPs are purchased.  I wonder if someone bought them and 
they are trying to time the announcement with a show or something.  If so, that 
seems to be backfiring.  Maybe they use the same PR consultant as the NFL.


From: cstanners--- via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

This is scary, I hope they're just reorganizing, not really closed 
- not good to lose competition. Their licensed radios looked really good, and 
the unlicensed, while quite 'dumb' RF-wise, were solidly built.



From: Eric Kuhnke via Af mailto:af@afmug.com 
Sender: "Af" mailto:af-bounces+cstanners=gmail@afmug.com 
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 00:53:27 +
To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com
ReplyTo: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2


http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/backhaul/exclusive-microwave-maven-exalt-is-cooked/d/d-id/710995?


Exclusive: Microwave Maven Exalt is Cooked
News Analysis
Dan Jones, Mobile Editor
9/22/2014 Comment (6)Login

50%
50%
inShare2Microwave maven Exalt Communications appears to have shut 
up shop after 10 years in the backhaul business, Light Reading has learned.

Industry sources say Exalt Communications Inc. has gone under. The 
company was started in 2004 by Western Multiplex president Amir Zoufonoun, who 
acted as CEO from the beginning, and was focused on selling microwave backhaul 
to mobile operators and wireless ISPs. (See Exalt Beams Up Microwaves and US 
Wireless ISPs: What's on Their Minds?)

Multiple calls by Light Reading to the Campbell, Calif.-based 
company's main switchboard were sent straight to voicemail Monday afternoon. 
The customer care support line also goes to voicemail.

"Their office doesn't seem to be open...doo

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 OdditiesMy advice to customers on how long to wait 
before calling – 5 minutes is too short, 5 days is too long.

And there are the people who call in “my Internet is slow”.  How slow?  “I’ve 
been waiting for Google to load for 3 days.”

From: Matt Jenkins via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities


Like that customer who's Internet went down last week and they figured it would 
just automagically come up again without calling in?



Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000
On 09/23/2014 07:44 AM, Andreas Wiatowski via Af wrote:

  I do too...I was just hoping it would automagically go away �;.>
  Cheers,

  Andreas Wiatowski
  Director / CEO
  Silo Wireless Inc.
  p: 519 449-5656 / 1-866-727-4138 x600
   �  � 
 

  This email and any files transmitted with it are CONFIDENTIAL and are 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed. �If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible 
for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have 
received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, 
printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.



--
  From: AFMUG LIST 
  Reply-To: AFMUG LIST 
  Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:09 +
  To: AFMUG LIST 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

  Is it just me, or do you all see your replies twice?

  When I post, I see my post, then I see it come through again "via AF"

  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Kade Sullivan via Af 
 wrote:

All integrated SMs, all with KP Reflectors.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
 wrote:

  A & B hooked to the same polarity on each client?
  �
  �


- Original Message - 
�
From: �Kade Sullivan via Af  ��
�
To: wlmailhtml:af@afmug.com 
�
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:10 �AM
�
Subject: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 �Oddities
�

�
�
So I have our second 450 3.65 AP up, and every single �AP at this 
site is showing a ~10dbi gap between the 2 polarities on the Uplink �side of 
things (from the SM's perspective).
�

�
The strangest part is that the 10db gap seems to go �back and forth 
between the A side being the stronger signal and the B �side.� It seems 
random, and I have included a shot of each of the link �status pages on this 
AP.� All these SMs are in the same general �geographic area, within 10 
degrees of each in relation to the AP.
�

�
You can see the top SM here actually has the A side �with a better 
signal, while the other 4 show a B side with the higher �signal.� What in 
the crap is going on here.� Do we have a bad �antenna on the AP?
�

�
I can't seem to make any sense of this at all.� �All these SMs have 
the same KP reflector, and they have all been visited twice �to ensure they 
are peaked.
�

�
I'm at a loss here.
�

�
Help me AFMUG!

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I hope so, I was going to buy more stuff from them.  The licensed backhaul 
business is strange, you look at any of the management, engineering or sales 
people on Linkedin, and it seems they have all worked for most of the companies 
at some time or another.  It’s a small world unto itself.


From: SmarterBroadband via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Exalt

I had contact with Exalt today.

 

I was told there should be a statement from Senior Management shortly.

 

Maybe if new ownership and re-organization, could be for the better?

 

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Redline and Purewave

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Did Mercury actually buy it from them, or did they take it over free because PW 
was going to kill it?  I don’t know, but I don’t remember seeing anything that 
actually said they “bought” it.

From: Mike Hammett via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Redline and Purewave

After a WISP bought out their WiMAX portfolio?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com







From: "Jon Langeler via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:47:25 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Redline and Purewave


http://rdlcom.com/news/281/108/Redline-Communications-Acquires-PureWave-Networks-Assets




Is this news?



Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Unfortunately this legislation went nowhere:
http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2011/3/sens-snowe-warner-introduce-legislation-to-enhance-technical-resources-and-expertise-at-fcc


From: Glen Waldrop via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance

I can't get over the small gain MT uses.

It also bugs me that the FCC seems to be all about massive amps and small 
antennas rather than the reverse.

If it was actually about interference PTP shots with narrow beamwidth is 
preferred. I suppose it is too much to ask for those in our government that set 
the regulations to actually understand the tech they're regulating.

I suppose it could be the manufacturers are going with big amps and small 
antennas, but it seems that would cost more.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance

  The SXT antenna were always too weak. Give me 25 dBi or give me death. Well, 
okay, I don't feel that strongly. I just won't buy it if not.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "Stefan Englhardt via Af" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:30:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance


  We’re starting the move to .ac with MT now. The 922UAGS-5HPacD has the same 
dimensions as

  the 911/411 Boards so we just replace boards.



  We get good results with Mars Antennas with housing for P2P. The SXT-Antennas 
are to weak for .ac.

  The 19db Mars Antennas give good CPE/short range PTP with a small footprint. 
We use these as

  Sector-Antennas where we have to cover small areas.



  The .ac firmware adaption is quite new but we see stable results in the 
300-400 Mbit/s range for short links.

  The .ac boards have faster CPUs so they may increase 11n-Speeds/NAT 
Performance.

  The 922-Board has a SFP. Ethernetport has moved. Due to this the RFElements 
Stationbox XL do not fit.



  MT .ac does PTP and PTMP and is downward compatible to older boards with 
11n/a.



  SXTs with .ac are not stable with the latest sw-release. So as always with MT 
you’ve to betatest

  HW/FW-combination to get it running smooth.







  Von: Af [mailto:af-bounces+ste=genias@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Rory 
Conaway via Af
  Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. September 2014 14:26
  An: af@afmug.com
  Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance



  Ya, I don’t’ think so.  If you use Ubiquiti you pretty much know what 
works and what doesn’t.  in reality, you use as few  custom features as 
possible outside 802.11 compatibility and limit the radios to Layer 2 bridges 
or nothing more than NAT whenever possible.  Try not to use any of the customer 
features although AirMax seems to be working pretty well.   You just don’t want 
to add anything that adds to processor overhead on an AP for Rocket M5’s if you 
have a higher density.  When the Titanium’s tanked a couple years ago, there 
was a huge hole in any kind of AP product with the ability to handle density 
due to the processor but nobody filled it.  It still hasn’t been filled to my 
satisfaction meaning we aren’t replacing Rocket 5M’s any time soon and we are 
keeping them at 50 users or less for another few months.  However, NetFlix and 
video streaming means we are pushing that down to a planned 30 over the next 
couple of months.  That numbers are just estimates but somewhere between 30-50 
under heavy video streaming usage and AirMax will start causing issues.



  If you allow torrents or anything that opens up a massive number of 
connections, then the number of users per AP drops significantly which is why 
we run filtering on the back end to reduce that.  I’ve seen APs with less than 
30 go apoplectic with a couple of wild torrent users.



  Rory  



  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+rory=triadwireless@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
That One Guy via Af
  Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:47 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rocket ac lite performance



  :-) the ubntboys tend to not be all that informed they blindly swear by 
whatever the spec sheets and feature notices tell them



  On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:

  For the first question, I have no idea, since the only released radios are 
PtP at this time. Pretty hard to tell.

  For the second one, "ubntboys" (at least the informed ones) don't run 
airsync, because they know it doesn't work well. :)

  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
  SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

  On 09/23/2014 09:06 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

does it work? or does it work in ubntboys eyes like airsync?



On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:

For clarification for EVERYBODY readin

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

We’ve been using the regular KP reflector with the 3.65 SM, no special claw.  
It fits, unlike the old Motorola 27RD which does not.  Am I missing something 
about a special claw?  I assume you are not talking about the KP feedhorn which 
would be used with a connectorized SM.


From: Kade Sullivan via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

Not that I'm aware of, just a different claw at the end, which may or may not 
change the focal length.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:

  doesnt the kp reflector have a different length arm for the 3.65?

  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

My advice to customers on how long to wait before calling – 5 minutes is 
too short, 5 days is too long.

And there are the people who call in “my Internet is slow”.  How slow?  
“I’ve been waiting for Google to load for 3 days.”

From: Matt Jenkins via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities


Like that customer who's Internet went down last week and they figured it 
would just automagically come up again without calling in?



Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000
On 09/23/2014 07:44 AM, Andreas Wiatowski via Af wrote:

  I do too...I was just hoping it would automagically go away �;.>
  Cheers,

  Andreas Wiatowski
  Director / CEO
  Silo Wireless Inc.
  p: 519 449-5656 / 1-866-727-4138 x600
  <http://silowireless.com/> � <http://twitter.com/#!/silowireless> � 
<http://www.facebook.com/silowireless> 

  This email and any files transmitted with it are CONFIDENTIAL and are 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed. �If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible 
for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have 
received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, 
printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.



--
  From: AFMUG LIST 
  Reply-To: AFMUG LIST 
  Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:09 +
  To: AFMUG LIST 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

  Is it just me, or do you all see your replies twice?

  When I post, I see my post, then I see it come through again "via AF"

  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Kade Sullivan via Af 
 wrote:

All integrated SMs, all with KP Reflectors.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
 wrote:

  A & B hooked to the same polarity on each client?
  �
  �


- Original Message - 
�
From: �Kade Sullivan via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com> ��
�
To: wlmailhtml:af@afmug.com 
�
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:10 �AM
�
Subject: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 �Oddities
�

�
�
So I have our second 450 3.65 AP up, and every single �AP at this 
site is showing a ~10dbi gap between the 2 polarities on the Uplink �side of 
things (from the SM's perspective).
�

�
The strangest part is that the 10db gap seems to go �back and 
forth between the A side being the stronger signal and the B �side.� It 
seems random, and I have included a shot of each of the link �status pages on 
this AP.� All these SMs are in the same general �geographic area, within 10 
degrees of each in relation to the AP.
�

�
You can see the top SM here actually has the A side �with a 
better signal, while the other 4 show a B side with the higher �signal.� 
What in the crap is going on here.� Do we have a bad �antenna on the AP?
�

�
I can't seem to make any sense of this at all.� �All these SMs 
have the same KP reflector, and they have all been visited twice �to ensure 
they are peaked.
�

�
I'm at a loss here.
�

�
Help me AFMUG!












  -- 

  All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Yeah, I’m not fond of that.  But my installers didn’t like your latest dish 
anyway, they say it’s too hard to align because tightening down the elevation 
adjustment changes the azimuth.  The RCL-2 didn’t have this issue.  Then 
there’s the odd diameter J-pipe which I believe you’ve fixed.

From: Chuck McCown via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

We have a special holder for the 3.65.  But we have lots of radio holders for 
our reflector now.  The list continues to grow.  

From: Ken Hohhof via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

We’ve been using the regular KP reflector with the 3.65 SM, no special claw.  
It fits, unlike the old Motorola 27RD which does not.  Am I missing something 
about a special claw?  I assume you are not talking about the KP feedhorn which 
would be used with a connectorized SM.


From: Kade Sullivan via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

Not that I'm aware of, just a different claw at the end, which may or may not 
change the focal length.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:

  doesnt the kp reflector have a different length arm for the 3.65?

  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

My advice to customers on how long to wait before calling – 5 minutes is 
too short, 5 days is too long.

And there are the people who call in “my Internet is slow”.  How slow?  
“I’ve been waiting for Google to load for 3 days.”

From: Matt Jenkins via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities


Like that customer who's Internet went down last week and they figured it 
would just automagically come up again without calling in?



Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000
On 09/23/2014 07:44 AM, Andreas Wiatowski via Af wrote:

  I do too...I was just hoping it would automagically go away �;.>
  Cheers,

  Andreas Wiatowski
  Director / CEO
  Silo Wireless Inc.
  p: 519 449-5656 / 1-866-727-4138 x600
  <http://silowireless.com/> � <http://twitter.com/#!/silowireless> � 
<http://www.facebook.com/silowireless> 

  This email and any files transmitted with it are CONFIDENTIAL and are 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed. �If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible 
for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have 
received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, 
printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.



--
  From: AFMUG LIST 
  Reply-To: AFMUG LIST 
  Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:09 +
  To: AFMUG LIST 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 Oddities

  Is it just me, or do you all see your replies twice?

  When I post, I see my post, then I see it come through again "via AF"

  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Kade Sullivan via Af 
 wrote:

All integrated SMs, all with KP Reflectors.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
 wrote:

  A & B hooked to the same polarity on each client?
  �
  �


- Original Message - 
�
From: �Kade Sullivan via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com> ��
�
To: wlmailhtml:af@afmug.com 
�
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:10 �AM
�
Subject: [AFMUG] PMP450 3.65 �Oddities
�

�
�
So I have our second 450 3.65 AP up, and every single �AP at this 
site is showing a ~10dbi gap between the 2 polarities on the Uplink �side of 
things (from the SM's perspective).
�

�
The strangest part is that the 10db gap seems to go �back and 
forth between the A side being the stronger signal and the B �side.� It 
seems random, and I have included a shot of each of the link �status pages on 
this AP.� All these SMs are in the same general �geographic area, within 10 
degrees of each in relation to the AP.
�

�
You can see the top SM here actually has the A side �with a 
better signal, while the other 4 show a B side with the higher �signal.� 
What in the crap is going on here.� Do we have a bad �antenna on the AP?
�

�
I can't seem to make any sense of this at all.� �All these SMs 
have the same KP reflector, and they have all been visited twice �to ensure 
they are peaked.
�

Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Hey, they just did a Brick Tamland and showed up at their own funeral.  Give 
them a couple days to recover from their experience.  (Who knows, maybe they 
brought ray guns from the future.)

Maybe they could do like some manufacturers and put it on there, but require a 
big fat license key to use it.  Maybe we’ll read about it in Light Reading.


From: Jason McKemie via Af 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2

Now if they would just start putting an optical interface on their entry level 
radios...

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, Dan Lorenz via Af  wrote:

  Hi all:



  We received the following email from Exalt’s CEO today.





  Dear Dan,



  During the past couple weeks we have gone through a major reorganization and 
change of ownership.  The company is now primarily owned by management and 
employees.  I apologize for any business disruption or confusion that this 
process may have caused for you and your partners and customers.



  Our vision is global connectivity and our mission is to be a world class 
innovator and manufacturer of wireless connectivity systems for enterprises and 
service providers worldwide.  We continue to develop, manufacture, book, and 
ship the same world class Exalt brands such as EX-Series and Air-Series.  



  I am very excited about our future.  The market drivers have never been 
stronger.  Cloud based content and applications, HD streaming video, IOT, and 
broadband mobility are causing a massive shift in the amount of bandwidth that 
will be required at every location, node, or personal device.  Copper is dead!  
And new fiber still remains very expensive and slow to market. Wireless 
technologies, including microwave and mm wave backhaul and access, are rapidly 
becoming the optimum choice for connectivity.  Exalt is more than ever focused 
on these new market trends.



  As for our relationship with Winncom, we continue on our end to support you 
with any and all customer activities and projects.  Business as usual.



  All the best,

  Amir



  P.s. Please forward to your management and others on your team.  And feel 
free to blast to your database of customers and partners.



  Dan Lorenz

  Product Manager / Business Development



  Main: 888-Winncom

  Direct:   440-519-2932

  Mobile:  440-570-1533

  Email:d.lor...@winncom.com

  Skype:   dan-lorenz

  Twitter:  winncomdan



  Visit me at ASIS 2014, 9/29 – 10/1 – Free pass below

  Winncom Booth #4046



  https://www.tradeshowregistrar.com/regsystem18/?event=ASIS2014&brand=EB-456









  From: Af 
[mailto:af-bounces+d.lorenz=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','winncom@afmug.com');]
 On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
  Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:16 AM
  To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2



  What would be ironic is if Cambium is going to announce at Wispalooza that 
they bought Exalt.





  From: Eric Kuhnke via Af 

  Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:32 AM

  To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exalt part 2



  I don't think Cambium cares, the PTP800 and PTP810 are marketed so heavily to 
government/institutional/enterprise customers that they consider themselves to 
be in a whole different price range. At least when compared to what you can get 
for a single polarity, 1024QAM, 40MHz wide, full-ODU licensed band system under 
$7000 with antennas these days.



  On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Mark Radabaugh via Af 
 wrote:

  Reality Check to Cambium. 

  Mark

  On 9/23/14, 9:24 AM, Eric Kuhnke via Af wrote:

It is kind of obvious when you look at it. In the last 18 months every one 
of their competitors has developed and released a 1024QAM part 101 band 
product. Exalt's top-end product is still 256QAM and 20W more power hungry than 
the competition. 

If they did not scrape up the R&D funding to develop and put into 
production keeping them in sync with every one of their current competition's 
products, that is a worrisome sign.



On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:01 AM, Tushar Patel via Af 
 wrote:

  "Business as usual", speaking that may not translate in practice. For 
example, we were about to buy 10 links and had simple question, we could never 
get hold of sales rep who was helping us promptly before, for 2 weeks we have 
not been able to get simple answers. I think Matt posted here, they had sent 
unit for repair and was suppose to take 30 days to repair and it has been 60 
days and was having difficult time getting hold off, or getting the unit. Light 
reading reports support call going straight to voice mail.  If this is business 
as usual for exalt we will have hard time if we run into issues with products 
in the field or if we need any kind of support. Current level of response from 
them is not even a

Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Just calling it "attire" makes you an old fart.

I saw an article about the new publisher that Bezos hired to run the 
Washington Post, saying his idea of "business casual" was no middle initial 
on your monogrammed shirts.


But yeah, if you don't provide company logowear, you probably shouldn't 
complain about anything that is relatively clean and covers the required 
body parts.


Oh, and I find installers that work at jobsites and grain elevators end up 
getting the OSHA compliant yellow hoodies to avoid struggling with safety 
vests.  So wherever they go that day, yellow is an approved color.



-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett via Af

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Installer attire

I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all.  Am I crazy
to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're not hunting the
internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being some kind of
grumpy old fart. 

Re: [AFMUG] Standoff question, rule of thumb, etc.

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I thought the standoffs were so tower climbers could climb past your equipment 
without using them as footpegs.

From: Paul McCall via Af 
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Standoff question, rule of thumb, etc.

Over the years we have employed different philosophies on mounting sectors to 
towers.  Our reference point was the Moto 100 series connectorized radios with 
sectors.  We started out with 18” standoffs on a Rohn 25G tower, because some 
“smart guy” suggested that was what we needed.  Another smart guy suggested 
24”, so some of them were done like that.  Then, someone else suggested that we 
really didn’t need standoffs at all, that they could be mounted each on a leg 
of the tower and we would be fine.  (we always ran 3   120 sector/AP 
configuration per tower in 2.4 Ghz).  As far as difference that we could 
measure, we found no difference in AP to SM performance when we measured at any 
distance of connection.  Maybe we were missing something, but anyway, we 
settled on mounting them directly on the tower leg.

 

Moving forward to today.  We have been installing the ePMP 2.4 series instead 
of 100 series 2.4s.The installation techs mounted them back to back, with 
North/South on one frequency (Front/Back Frequency Reuse configuration) and 
East/West on the other frequency.  One of the 4 sectors had to have a custom 
mounting bar made to replace the short stubby one that comes with the sector, 
thus allowing the 2 sectors (North and East at 90 degree offset) to be put on 
one leg right near each other.  Again, this is Frequency Re-use a bit of a 
different scenario.

 

Anyway, today in working with Cambium, they told us we need to have at least 3 
ft of vertical separation between each radio on the same frequency, so North 
and East could be at one level (dif. Frequencies) and South and West would be 
vertically separated.  Alrighty then J …..  so we have 6 towers to go move 
things around on.  We are going to some test tomorrow on the first tower to see 
exactly how much separation yields us how much F/B isolation.  Using ePMP 
eDetect feature, that should be pretty easy to see.

 

OK….so here is where I want opinions.  Really I’d like “expert advice”, but I 
will settle for opinions J

 

How far “should” these sectors be “stood off” from the tower, if at all?   I am 
not expecting to be able to measure any difference with the F/B ratio data, so 
its back to this is “all theory”.Is the standoff question a front to back 
issue at all, or a “we want the metal” sector away from the metal tower a 
little bit?

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com

pa...@pdmnet.net

 

Re: [AFMUG] 477 filing - delayed?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

signaturePatching Shellshock vulnerability?

From: Randy Cosby via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 2:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] 477 filing - delayed?


"The Form 477 filing interface is temporarily unavailable. We have identified 
an issue that developed on September 25, 2014 and are working to fix the 
problem and reopen the site as soon as possible. We apologize for the 
inconvenience"

https://apps2.fcc.gov/




-- 


 Randy Cosby
  InfoWest, Inc
  435-674-0165 x 2010
  infowest.com
 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc 
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.  

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy 
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

He has to be near 90.  He still plays the trumpet?  Or is he a bandleader?

From: Jaime Solorza via Af 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 4:32 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

Damn.  Thats awesome.Heard he joined Ides of March on Vehicle last year
If u can take some pics.  

Jaime Solorza

On Sep 26, 2014 12:09 PM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

  Going to see Doc Severinsen play tonight.

  Anybody gonna top that!

Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

What about a Passport?
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-touchscreen-smartphone-has-become-one-of-the-98286819979.html

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Jenkins via Af

Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 6:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

Don't you mean phablet?

Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000

On 09/26/2014 04:34 PM, timothy steele via Af wrote:

6plus not a phone that's a tablet
—
Sent from Mailbox 


On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af > wrote:


the old version looks great on an iphone 6+

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:09 PM, timothy steele via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


The new version have a smart phone friendly web site or app for
installer schedules?
—
Sent from Mailbox 


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Bill Prince via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

You change your meds or something Steve?

First the props to the PTP650, now this.  Makes me think that
someone has you tied up in a closet or something, and is
posting in your place

bp

On 9/25/2014 10:44 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

I never have much good to say about anything, but this is a
credit where credit is due thing.

They have done alot of work on this new version they have out.

We are in the process of demoing it and just did a live
import of data from our old version

The features in this are slick, the interface doesnt look
like something from 1982 anymore

It seems responsive and intuitive

The big thing today was the 477 export. I personally did not
want to have to learn any of the back end stuff on prepping
the 477 to file for something that doesnt benefit us and is
only done twice a year.

I allocated until the filing deadline all my time to
focusing on actually reading the FCC crap, collecting the
data, formatting it, etc.

Powercode just released their functional tool, so i set
aside two of those days to get a build live and import our
data, I had a couple issues, but it was mainly my dumb ass
causing them.

Got the live data running, ran the tool and uploaded our
stuff. The whole process took around ten minutes, and I
still dont even know or care exactly what the FCC is
getting, all I know is its done, assuming its correct, and I
didnt have to stab anybody.


If you are looking for a platform that does your goodness
for you (this issue comes up about once a month) Powercode
has become a top notch product. Managing your guys time is
one of the features just implemented, it needs a little fine
tuning, but you can have utter morons handling your
scheduling and the system makes sure things dont get too out
of hand

handling your business with helpdesk ticketing just became a
real option with this build too, centralized, tied to your
actual customers... nice

The billing features have been good for a long time, not
alot of changes to that, but for the most part there didnt
need to be.

Monitoring your network has gotten great, trend base probing
and alerting. This does alot of what a fully functional
stand alone NMS does. And they added a cloud for the
userbase to share probes, no more asking guys how to do this
and thet, then getting a vague answer you have to figure out
how to implement - genius



Buy powercode today while supplies last!!


This message brought to you by adderal and vicodin

-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must

remember that the parts you are reassembling were
disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Unfortunately I have a couple old servers running RHEL4 and one old BlueQuartz 
webhosting appliance based on CentOS4.  I’m a little reluctant to try compiling 
the patch myself unless I switch to a difference shell first, if I screw up my 
command shell it might be difficult to fix.

Any guess if I’d be safe using the RPM cited in this thread:
http://serverfault.com/questions/631055/how-do-i-patch-rhel-4-for-the-bash-vulnerabilities-in-cve-2014-6271-and-cve-2014

the RPM it points to is:

http://public-yum.oracle.com/repo/EnterpriseLinux/EL4/latest/i386/getPackage/bash-3.0-27.0.2.el4.i386.rpm


From: Ty Featherling via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

Yeah probably the NSA! Hahaha! 

-Ty

On Sep 26, 2014 10:36 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

  Man I bet theres some guy whose been exploiting this for 20 years who is 
pissed right now

  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Ty Featherling via Af  wrote:

CentOS on some, Ubuntu on others. Already got the answers in this thread 
though, thanks. 

-Ty

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:

  Which distribution?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "Ty Featherling via Af" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:42:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack


  Noob question but how can I easiest update my linux boxes to get the 
latest patches? 

  -Ty

  On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  
wrote:

Upgraded our systems at 6am yesterday for this. Also pulled the bash 
.deb out of debian-stable/security for our ubiquiti edgerouters. (I made on a 
post on the UBNT forum with the CVE info yesterday.)

Side note: TONS of things are affected by this...

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 09/25/2014 10:25 AM, Peter Kranz via Af wrote:

PS.. This vulnerability can be exploited via HTTP/Apache attack vectors, so you 
need to patch any vulnerable system running Apache.

Peter Kranz
Founder/CEO - Unwired Ltd
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+pkranz=unwiredltd@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt 
via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection 
attack

Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack

https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/










  -- 

  All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I will only rely on the customer to install the ATA if they are going to 
plug a cordless base into it, no house wiring.  Otherwise, they will forget 
to disconnect the POTS line at the NID.


Most people have a cordless phone system, but they may also have an old 
princess phone somewhere in the house, first try to convince them to ditch 
the corded phones and not use the house wiring.  Failing that, have your 
installer tell them the router and ATA have to go near a phone jack.


If they insist on putting the ATA in a room with no phone jack and still 
using the house wiring to reach corded phones, the professional way is 
probably to install a surface mount jack and wire it like a phone guy would, 
and charge them labor & materials.


If they have an old 900/2.4/5.8 cordless phone, you probably want them to 
replace it with a new DECT system anyway, you can get systems with a whole 
bunch of cordless handsets for not much money.


Perhaps people can be convinced by comparing to WiFi.  It used to be people 
would run Ethernet to every room to plug in their computers, no one does 
this anymore, they want all their devices to be portable and use WiFi.  Same 
with phones, if you pick up the phone, you want to be able to move to 
another room or even outside and take the phone with you.


If they really cannot go cordless or have the Internet installed to a room 
with a phone jack, then charge them for installing a phone jack.  It does 
mean a few more parts an installer needs to carry.  If you don't want to 
carry RJ11 keystone jacks and surface mount boxes, there are cheap boxes 
with screw terminals or I like the ones with 110 punchdown terminals.  And 
you definitely need red and yellow Scotchloks, those are what kill me, no 
matter how many I buy, I can't find where I put them, so I end up buying 
more.  I must have thousands of Scothloks squirreled away by now, I think 
they go to the land of missing socks.



-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke via Af

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

I'm interested in how people are doing physical Residential VoIP
Installs.  Do you just provide the ATA and let the customer figure it
out, or do you physically hook it into the house wiring for them?  We're
doing more and more, and it seems like it takes almost as much time to
do the Wireless install as it does to install the ATA.  By the time you
track down the house wires, disconnect them from the PSTN, run a wire
from the ATA to where you can tie into the house wiring (not always
close by), and then wire the ATA in.  The one's we're converting all
seem to have several corded phones they still want to use.

Also, how do you cover the crossover time between installation and
Number port.  Business customer are one thing, I have them setup the
call forwarding feature at the ILEC, and forward calls to a temporary
DID until the port happens.  But trying to get an older person to call
the ILEC and understand what they need to ask for (and not get sucked
into a new contract) is much more difficult.

I'm not sure how Vonage does it, do they walk people through tracing
down cables over the phone?  Or once the number port happens, they
presume the ILEC port is dead, so then they just have the customer plug
it in to any wall jack?

Nate 

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

So maybe I won’t do that.

The newer servers where I could just do a yum update have been straightforward, 
as you’d expect.

I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would need 
to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or find 
a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash for 
you.

From: Jeremy via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

Our webserver was vulnerable.  Tried to fix it without backing it up 
firstyeah, I know.  Lost it all.  So I guess I will be building a new 
website from my 2013 backup this weekend.  It's a good thing I carpet bombed my 
website to prevent anyone from messing with it!

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

  Unfortunately I have a couple old servers running RHEL4 and one old 
BlueQuartz webhosting appliance based on CentOS4.  I’m a little reluctant to 
try compiling the patch myself unless I switch to a difference shell first, if 
I screw up my command shell it might be difficult to fix.

  Any guess if I’d be safe using the RPM cited in this thread:
  
http://serverfault.com/questions/631055/how-do-i-patch-rhel-4-for-the-bash-vulnerabilities-in-cve-2014-6271-and-cve-2014

  the RPM it points to is:

  
http://public-yum.oracle.com/repo/EnterpriseLinux/EL4/latest/i386/getPackage/bash-3.0-27.0.2.el4.i386.rpm


  From: Ty Featherling via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:52 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

  Yeah probably the NSA! Hahaha! 

  -Ty

  On Sep 26, 2014 10:36 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

Man I bet theres some guy whose been exploiting this for 20 years who is 
pissed right now

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Ty Featherling via Af  wrote:

  CentOS on some, Ubuntu on others. Already got the answers in this thread 
though, thanks. 

  -Ty

  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  
wrote:

Which distribution?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





From: "Ty Featherling via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:42:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack


Noob question but how can I easiest update my linux boxes to get the 
latest patches? 

-Ty

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  
wrote:

  Upgraded our systems at 6am yesterday for this. Also pulled the bash 
.deb out of debian-stable/security for our ubiquiti edgerouters. (I made on a 
post on the UBNT forum with the CVE info yesterday.)

  Side note: TONS of things are affected by this...

  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
  SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

  On 09/25/2014 10:25 AM, Peter Kranz via Af wrote:

PS.. This vulnerability can be exploited via HTTP/Apache attack vectors, so you 
need to patch any vulnerable system running Apache.

Peter Kranz
Founder/CEO - Unwired Ltd
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+pkranz=unwiredltd@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt 
via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection 
attack

Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack

https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/










-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Did you use the pickup line “want to come back to my place and see my 
embouchure”?

From: Chuck McCown via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 2:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

It was a fluke.  Warming up for a concert.  It just happened.  The other guys 
warming up gave me a look I will remember the rest of my life.  I could never 
repeat it.  I could consistently play a high C scale and a few notes beyond, 
but never up to the double high C.  

From: Jeremy Grip via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

One more than yours truly. :- (

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck 
McCown via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

 

Yes?  Made my lips bleed in empathy.  I only hit a double high C scale one time 
in my life.  

 

From: Jeremy Grip via Af 

Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 5:50 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

 

Still hittin’ double-high C’s?? ( Sorry--old trumpet player here).

 

Jeremy Grip

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime 
Solorza via Af
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 7:21 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

 

Yep.  Hope you hear him play McArthurs Park.He is close to 90 by now

Jaime Solorza

On Sep 26, 2014 4:14 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

Probably.  Wasn't he the band master for Johny Carson?

bpOn 9/26/2014 2:48 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  He has to be near 90.  He still plays the trumpet?  Or is he a bandleader?

   

  From: Jaime Solorza via Af 

  Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 4:32 PM

  To: Animal Farm 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Friday Fun

   

  Damn.  Thats awesome.Heard he joined Ides of March on Vehicle last year
  If u can take some pics.  

  Jaime Solorza

  On Sep 26, 2014 12:09 PM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

  Going to see Doc Severinsen play tonight.

   

  Anybody gonna top that!

 

Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

It “emulates” Android.

From: Jason McKemie via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 2:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

The passport is actually somewhat interesting, and I'd consider it if it ran 
Android. It got a decent preliminary review on Engadget as well. 

On Friday, September 26, 2014, Ken Hohhof via Af 
 wrote:

  What about a Passport?
  
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-touchscreen-smartphone-has-become-one-of-the-98286819979.html

  -Original Message- From: Matt Jenkins via Af
  Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 6:45 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

  Don't you mean phablet?

  Matthew Jenkins
  SmarterBroadband
  m...@sbbinc.net
  530.272.4000

  On 09/26/2014 04:34 PM, timothy steele via Af wrote:

6plus not a phone that's a tablet
—
Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>


On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

the old version looks great on an iphone 6+

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:09 PM, timothy steele via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


  The new version have a smart phone friendly web site or app for
  installer schedules?
  —
  Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>


  On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Bill Prince via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

  You change your meds or something Steve?

  First the props to the PTP650, now this.  Makes me think that
  someone has you tied up in a closet or something, and is
  posting in your place

  bp

  On 9/25/2014 10:44 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

I never have much good to say about anything, but this is a
credit where credit is due thing.

They have done alot of work on this new version they have out.

We are in the process of demoing it and just did a live
import of data from our old version

The features in this are slick, the interface doesnt look
like something from 1982 anymore

It seems responsive and intuitive

The big thing today was the 477 export. I personally did not
want to have to learn any of the back end stuff on prepping
the 477 to file for something that doesnt benefit us and is
only done twice a year.

I allocated until the filing deadline all my time to
focusing on actually reading the FCC crap, collecting the
data, formatting it, etc.

Powercode just released their functional tool, so i set
aside two of those days to get a build live and import our
data, I had a couple issues, but it was mainly my dumb ass
causing them.

Got the live data running, ran the tool and uploaded our
stuff. The whole process took around ten minutes, and I
still dont even know or care exactly what the FCC is
getting, all I know is its done, assuming its correct, and I
didnt have to stab anybody.


If you are looking for a platform that does your goodness
for you (this issue comes up about once a month) Powercode
has become a top notch product. Managing your guys time is
one of the features just implemented, it needs a little fine
tuning, but you can have utter morons handling your
scheduling and the system makes sure things dont get too out
of hand

handling your business with helpdesk ticketing just became a
real option with this build too, centralized, tied to your
actual customers... nice

The billing features have been good for a long time, not
alot of changes to that, but for the most part there didnt
need to be.

Monitoring your network has gotten great, trend base probing
and alerting. This does alot of what a fully functional
stand alone NMS does. And they added a cloud for the
userbase to share probes, no more asking guys how to do this
and thet, then getting a vague answer you have to figure out
how to implement - genius



Buy powercode today while supplies last!!


This message brought to you by adderal and vicodin

-- All parts should go together without forcing

Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

It probably meshes with the “secure containerization” of work, personal, and 
apps that enterprise IT people probably like.  Work content is separated from 
personal content, and apps are run in a secure container.  Or so they say.
http://us.blackberry.com/business/enterprise-mobility/work-personal.html


From: Bill Prince via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

Yah.  Wonder what that's like

Gets around the apps issue pretty handily.  Why bother building a new API, just 
use a pretty good one that a lot of other phones are using.

Something like that might have saved the Palm Pre.


bp

On 9/27/2014 12:44 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  It “emulates” Android.

  From: Jason McKemie via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 2:38 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

  The passport is actually somewhat interesting, and I'd consider it if it ran 
Android. It got a decent preliminary review on Engadget as well. 

  On Friday, September 26, 2014, Ken Hohhof via Af 
 wrote:

What about a Passport?

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-touchscreen-smartphone-has-become-one-of-the-98286819979.html

-Original Message- From: Matt Jenkins via Af
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 6:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Props to powercode

Don't you mean phablet?

Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000

On 09/26/2014 04:34 PM, timothy steele via Af wrote:

  6plus not a phone that's a tablet
  —
  Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>


  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

  the old version looks great on an iphone 6+

  Sent from my iPhone

  Kurt Fankhauser
  Wavelinc Communications
  P.O. Box 126
  Bucyrus, OH 44820
  http://www.wavelinc.com
  tel. 419-562-6405
  fax. 419-617-0110

  On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:09 PM, timothy steele via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


The new version have a smart phone friendly web site or app for
installer schedules?
—
Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Bill Prince via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

You change your meds or something Steve?

First the props to the PTP650, now this.  Makes me think that
someone has you tied up in a closet or something, and is
posting in your place

bp

On 9/25/2014 10:44 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

  I never have much good to say about anything, but this is a
  credit where credit is due thing.

  They have done alot of work on this new version they have out.

  We are in the process of demoing it and just did a live
  import of data from our old version

  The features in this are slick, the interface doesnt look
  like something from 1982 anymore

  It seems responsive and intuitive

  The big thing today was the 477 export. I personally did not
  want to have to learn any of the back end stuff on prepping
  the 477 to file for something that doesnt benefit us and is
  only done twice a year.

  I allocated until the filing deadline all my time to
  focusing on actually reading the FCC crap, collecting the
  data, formatting it, etc.

  Powercode just released their functional tool, so i set
  aside two of those days to get a build live and import our
  data, I had a couple issues, but it was mainly my dumb ass
  causing them.

  Got the live data running, ran the tool and uploaded our
  stuff. The whole process took around ten minutes, and I
  still dont even know or care exactly what the FCC is
  getting, all I know is its done, assuming its correct, and I
  didnt have to stab anybody.


  If you are looking for a platform that does your goodness
  for you (this issue comes up about once a month) Powercode
  has become a top notch product. Managing your guys time is
  one of the features just implemented, it needs a little fine
  tuning, but you can have utter morons handling your
  scheduling and the system makes sure things dont get too out
  of hand

  handling your business with helpdesk ticketing just became a
  real opt

Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I forgot to address the due date issue.  Like Jeremy, I try to schedule the 
install on the porting due date.  We don’t get an exact time, but ports usually 
take effect around 8-9 am, rarely will it not be complete if you schedule a 
late morning or an afternoon install.

Also note that many residential people use their landlines mostly to call out, 
other people call them on their cellphones because they don’t know if they will 
be home or not.  Couple that with the fact that you can call out on the VoIP 
line and have the caller ID show the right number even before it ports, it’s 
the incoming calls that won’t get routed to the VoIP line until the number 
ports.  So if you can’t schedule the install the same day, many people will be 
OK if you install it the day before.

If they are going to use exclusively a cordless phone, most people can handle 
unplugging it from the wall and plugging it into the ATA on the morning of the 
porting due date.


From: Chris Fabien via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

We are moving toward strongly suggesting customers not use the house wiring. 
Seen way too many issues with poor house wiring causing problems or with 
damaged ATAs after lightning strikes. 

Our experience, many houses have hacked up phone wiring that somehow works OK 
for landline service but the ATAs don't tolerate it. Makes for a difficult 
conversation explaining to customer who wired up their house with radioshack 
phone cords and splitters, laying on ground in the wet crawlspace, why their 
new VOIP service isn't reliable. 


On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

  I install every VoIP customer for no additional charge.  I know the port date 
before it happens so I always schedule the install for that day, and let them 
know when we begin the process that they may be without for a few hours on the 
day that the porting completes.  Most VoIP installs are simple, like two 
minutes.  Occasionally we run into the nightmare installs.  I ask them and if 
they just use one expandable cordless set I don't touch the wiring.  Otherwise 
we do the whole home install.  I'd say the majority are whole home installs.  
We try to make sure that we bring the wire into the hub whenever possible, or 
near a phone jack.  That way if they decide that they want VoIP down the road 
it is an easy install.  I always consider the potential VoIP install when doing 
the wireless install.

  On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

I will only rely on the customer to install the ATA if they are going to 
plug a cordless base into it, no house wiring.  Otherwise, they will forget to 
disconnect the POTS line at the NID.

Most people have a cordless phone system, but they may also have an old 
princess phone somewhere in the house, first try to convince them to ditch the 
corded phones and not use the house wiring.  Failing that, have your installer 
tell them the router and ATA have to go near a phone jack.

If they insist on putting the ATA in a room with no phone jack and still 
using the house wiring to reach corded phones, the professional way is probably 
to install a surface mount jack and wire it like a phone guy would, and charge 
them labor & materials.

If they have an old 900/2.4/5.8 cordless phone, you probably want them to 
replace it with a new DECT system anyway, you can get systems with a whole 
bunch of cordless handsets for not much money.

Perhaps people can be convinced by comparing to WiFi.  It used to be people 
would run Ethernet to every room to plug in their computers, no one does this 
anymore, they want all their devices to be portable and use WiFi.  Same with 
phones, if you pick up the phone, you want to be able to move to another room 
or even outside and take the phone with you.

If they really cannot go cordless or have the Internet installed to a room 
with a phone jack, then charge them for installing a phone jack.  It does mean 
a few more parts an installer needs to carry.  If you don't want to carry RJ11 
keystone jacks and surface mount boxes, there are cheap boxes with screw 
terminals or I like the ones with 110 punchdown terminals.  And you definitely 
need red and yellow Scotchloks, those are what kill me, no matter how many I 
buy, I can't find where I put them, so I end up buying more.  I must have 
thousands of Scothloks squirreled away by now, I think they go to the land of 
missing socks.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines 


I'm interested in how people are doing physical Residential VoIP
Installs.  Do you just provide the ATA and let the customer figure it
out, or do you physically hook it into the house wiring for them?  We're
doi

Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Nope.  Two reasons.  First, people are used to bundles.  Second, half the 
reason they are usually switching is they hate their landline phone company so 
much.

I think we do get the occasional person adding VoIP later.


From: Nate Burke via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

Do you schedule both the Wireless and ATA install on the same day, or are they 
2 installs?  If they are the same day, how do you convince the customer of 
switching their Phone over when they don't even have the service yet.  Don't 
they question your reliability since their sisters daughters ex-boyfriends 
cousin had wireless once, and it dropped out this one time so it's not 
reliable?  

On 9/27/2014 4:35 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote: 
  I forgot to address the due date issue.  Like Jeremy, I try to schedule the 
install on the porting due date.  We don’t get an exact time, but ports usually 
take effect around 8-9 am, rarely will it not be complete if you schedule a 
late morning or an afternoon install.

  Also note that many residential people use their landlines mostly to call 
out, other people call them on their cellphones because they don’t know if they 
will be home or not.  Couple that with the fact that you can call out on the 
VoIP line and have the caller ID show the right number even before it ports, 
it’s the incoming calls that won’t get routed to the VoIP line until the number 
ports.  So if you can’t schedule the install the same day, many people will be 
OK if you install it the day before.

  If they are going to use exclusively a cordless phone, most people can handle 
unplugging it from the wall and plugging it into the ATA on the morning of the 
porting due date.


  From: Chris Fabien via Af 
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:44 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

  We are moving toward strongly suggesting customers not use the house wiring. 
Seen way too many issues with poor house wiring causing problems or with 
damaged ATAs after lightning strikes. 

  Our experience, many houses have hacked up phone wiring that somehow works OK 
for landline service but the ATAs don't tolerate it. Makes for a difficult 
conversation explaining to customer who wired up their house with radioshack 
phone cords and splitters, laying on ground in the wet crawlspace, why their 
new VOIP service isn't reliable. 


  On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

I install every VoIP customer for no additional charge.  I know the port 
date before it happens so I always schedule the install for that day, and let 
them know when we begin the process that they may be without for a few hours on 
the day that the porting completes.  Most VoIP installs are simple, like two 
minutes.  Occasionally we run into the nightmare installs.  I ask them and if 
they just use one expandable cordless set I don't touch the wiring.  Otherwise 
we do the whole home install.  I'd say the majority are whole home installs.  
We try to make sure that we bring the wire into the hub whenever possible, or 
near a phone jack.  That way if they decide that they want VoIP down the road 
it is an easy install.  I always consider the potential VoIP install when doing 
the wireless install.

    On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

  I will only rely on the customer to install the ATA if they are going to 
plug a cordless base into it, no house wiring.  Otherwise, they will forget to 
disconnect the POTS line at the NID.

  Most people have a cordless phone system, but they may also have an old 
princess phone somewhere in the house, first try to convince them to ditch the 
corded phones and not use the house wiring.  Failing that, have your installer 
tell them the router and ATA have to go near a phone jack.

  If they insist on putting the ATA in a room with no phone jack and still 
using the house wiring to reach corded phones, the professional way is probably 
to install a surface mount jack and wire it like a phone guy would, and charge 
them labor & materials.

  If they have an old 900/2.4/5.8 cordless phone, you probably want them to 
replace it with a new DECT system anyway, you can get systems with a whole 
bunch of cordless handsets for not much money.

  Perhaps people can be convinced by comparing to WiFi.  It used to be 
people would run Ethernet to every room to plug in their computers, no one does 
this anymore, they want all their devices to be portable and use WiFi.  Same 
with phones, if you pick up the phone, you want to be able to move to another 
room or even outside and take the phone with you.

  If they really cannot go cordless or have the Internet installed to a 
room with a phone jack, then charge them for installing a phone jack.  It does 
mean a few more parts an installer needs to carry.  If

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I keep reading there are patches for the patches.

From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection 
attack

On Debian, doing an ‘aptitude update;aptitude upgrade’ will almost never do 
anything ‘wrong,’ and if it thinks it’s going to, it will generally warn you 
about it right then and there, and often give you a few choices on what to do 
about it.

 

On a RHEL/CentOS distribution, ‘yum update’ will sometimes do incredibly stupid 
things.  I once had a ‘yum update’ make the stock Cacti server decide to look 
for the rrds in a different spot.  I’ve had it overwrite, without asking or 
notifying, config files, init.d startup scripts, etc etc.  Once, I had it 
upgrade to a kernel with a known filesystem corruption bug.  Just a day ago, 
doing it for the shellshock fix, it screwed up an snmptt handler by changing 
snmptrapd’s behavior for passing OIDs from numeric to non-numeric, so suddenly 
all of my traps were ‘unknown’ by snmptt.

 

Takeaway: Do the ‘yum upgrade’ but anything odd that happens over the next few 
weeks, that’s why.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That 
One Guy via Af
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

there will be no v9 impact by doing that?

 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Simon Westlake via Af  wrote:

Not if you're only running Powercode on the server, but you should still do a 
'yum update' for safety.

On 9/26/2014 11:10 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

  Simon, is the powercode centos vulnerable? 

   

  Does it matter the ports that are exposed, we have a couple DNS servers 
running but only DNS is opened through the external firewall

   

  Is there a vulnerability scanner available for morons like me?

   

  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Matt via Af  wrote:

  Redhat has released an updated patch this morning.  yum update again.



  On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Matt via Af  wrote:
  > Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack
  >
  > 
https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/





   

  -- 

  All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

 

-- 
Simon Westlake 
Powercode - The smart choice in ISP billing and OSS 
powercode.com 
P: 920-351-1010 
E: si...@powercode.com 





 

-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925

[AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Anybody know what that little 6-leaded SMD is between the RJ45 jack and the 
Ethernet transformer on the PCB of a Canopy SM?  We bought a used SM that 
doesn't work (it lights up and seems to be trying) and that part is missing. 
I don't think it's optional.  But is its absence causing the problems?  Or 
just an indication that a tech didn't finish repairing it and mistakenly 
marked it as tested and good?


If it's a surge protection component, it seems too small to do much good. 

Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

So the missing part doesn’t explain why it doesn’t work.  It came with a 
guarantee, so I’ll send it back to the seller.

From: Paul McCall via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

Gerard is correct.  An SM will function without it, though it makes the 
Ethernet less than protected from basic transient surges (even little ones).

 

I would suggest replacing it

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gerard 
Dupont III via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

 

It's a Transient Voltage Suppressor. I haven't tested others, but I know 100 
will function just fine without it. In a pinch I remove them to fix ethernet 
errors. I think this is the right part number if you wanted to replace it. 
RCLAMP0504FCT

 

Gerard

 

 

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

Anybody know what that little 6-leaded SMD is between the RJ45 jack and the 
Ethernet transformer on the PCB of a Canopy SM?  We bought a used SM that 
doesn't work (it lights up and seems to be trying) and that part is missing. I 
don't think it's optional.  But is its absence causing the problems?  Or just 
an indication that a tech didn't finish repairing it and mistakenly marked it 
as tested and good?

If it's a surge protection component, it seems too small to do much good. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Could be, but it looks like it was cleanly desoldered.  Seeing up close is not 
one of my superpowers though, not for quite awhile now.

I was just trying to configure it at the office.  Ethernet bounces up and down, 
and LEDs don’t seem to go through the regular sequence.  I did once get into it 
at 192.168.1.1 which is strange because it was supposed to be defaulted, NAT 
was enabled.

Strange.


From: Paul McCall via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

Could be that when the part came off, a trace went with it

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 11:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

 

So the missing part doesn’t explain why it doesn’t work.  It came with a 
guarantee, so I’ll send it back to the seller.

 

From: Paul McCall via Af 

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:47 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

 

Gerard is correct.  An SM will function without it, though it makes the 
Ethernet less than protected from basic transient surges (even little ones).

 

I would suggest replacing it

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gerard 
Dupont III via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] missing part on Canopy SM

 

It's a Transient Voltage Suppressor. I haven't tested others, but I know 100 
will function just fine without it. In a pinch I remove them to fix ethernet 
errors. I think this is the right part number if you wanted to replace it. 
RCLAMP0504FCT

 

Gerard

 

 

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

Anybody know what that little 6-leaded SMD is between the RJ45 jack and the 
Ethernet transformer on the PCB of a Canopy SM?  We bought a used SM that 
doesn't work (it lights up and seems to be trying) and that part is missing. I 
don't think it's optional.  But is its absence causing the problems?  Or just 
an indication that a tech didn't finish repairing it and mistakenly marked it 
as tested and good?

If it's a surge protection component, it seems too small to do much good. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Why?

Take the case of a dedicated server that only does let’s say DHCP or DNS or 
NTP.  It only has one port open to the Internet, and there’s no way to get to a 
bash shell via that port.  How the hell is someone going to pass an environment 
variable to a bash shell on that server?



From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection 
attack

Ø  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would 
need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or 
find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash 
for you.

 

Please don’t think like this.  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

So maybe I won’t do that.

 

The newer servers where I could just do a yum update have been straightforward, 
as you’d expect.

 

I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would need 
to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or find 
a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash for 
you.

 

From: Jeremy via Af 

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

Our webserver was vulnerable.  Tried to fix it without backing it up 
firstyeah, I know.  Lost it all.  So I guess I will be building a new 
website from my 2013 backup this weekend.  It's a good thing I carpet bombed my 
website to prevent anyone from messing with it!

 

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

Unfortunately I have a couple old servers running RHEL4 and one old BlueQuartz 
webhosting appliance based on CentOS4.  I’m a little reluctant to try compiling 
the patch myself unless I switch to a difference shell first, if I screw up my 
command shell it might be difficult to fix.

 

Any guess if I’d be safe using the RPM cited in this thread:

http://serverfault.com/questions/631055/how-do-i-patch-rhel-4-for-the-bash-vulnerabilities-in-cve-2014-6271-and-cve-2014

 

the RPM it points to is:

 

http://public-yum.oracle.com/repo/EnterpriseLinux/EL4/latest/i386/getPackage/bash-3.0-27.0.2.el4.i386.rpm

 

 

From: Ty Featherling via Af 

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:52 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

Yeah probably the NSA! Hahaha! 

-Ty

On Sep 26, 2014 10:36 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

Man I bet theres some guy whose been exploiting this for 20 years who is pissed 
right now

 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Ty Featherling via Af  wrote:

CentOS on some, Ubuntu on others. Already got the answers in this thread 
though, thanks. 

 

-Ty

 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:

Which distribution?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 




From: "Ty Featherling via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:42:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

Noob question but how can I easiest update my linux boxes to get the latest 
patches? 

 

-Ty

 

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:

Upgraded our systems at 6am yesterday for this. Also pulled the bash .deb out 
of debian-stable/security for our ubiquiti edgerouters. (I made on a post on 
the UBNT forum with the CVE info yesterday.)

Side note: TONS of things are affected by this...

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 09/25/2014 10:25 AM, Peter Kranz via Af wrote:

PS.. This vulnerability can be exploited via HTTP/Apache attack vectors, so you 
need to patch any vulnerable system running Apache. Peter KranzFounder/CEO - 
Unwired Ltdwww.UnwiredLtd.comDesk: 510-868-1614 x100Mobile: 
510-207-pkr...@unwiredltd.com -Original Message-From: Af 
[mailto:af-bounces+pkranz=unwiredltd@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt via 
AfSent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:27 AMTo: af@afmug.comSubject: [AFMUG] 
Bash specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack Bash 
specially-crafted environment variables code injection attack 
https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/
  

 

 

 





 

-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use

Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Ground and neutral are not the same.  Yes, they are tied together somewhere, 
probably the transformer.  But you should not use the neutral as a ground or 
tie it to your ground anywhere.


From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

I have a grounding question for the cabinet at the base of the tower. My 
electrician wired in the incoming power to the cabinet but he did not bond the 
cabinet ground/neutral to the actual tower itself. Tower has its own separate 
ground rods and cabinet ground actually is back where the meter base is, (over 
150 feet away) Should I bond the tower and the cabinet together? I already have 
electrical conduit running out of the cabinet and then attaches to the tower 
itself so there is metal to metal contact just wondering if I should have 
something better



Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

http://www.wavelinc.com

tel. 419-562-6405

fax. 419-617-0110


On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Gino Villarini via Af  wrote:

  I do think too that isolating its easier and should be the way to go… DC 
plant, fiber up.  Problem would be mounts and tower attachments… thinking of 
using PVC conduit?



  Gino A. Villarini
  President
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  www.aeronetpr.com   
  @aeronetpr



  From: "af@afmug.com" 
  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Sunday, September 28, 2014 at 7:48 AM
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?


  Great question Gino.  I hope we get some good input. 

  My opinion is that you have to be completed isolated or extremely properly 
grounded.  Both can be complicated, but the second way being the most 
complicated



  Paul



  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino 
Villarini via Af
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?



  I remember the good old days that most of our network was based on Canopy 
Classic:



  The radios were isolated form the tower, minor lightning issues..



  Nowadays its has turned into a big issue for us, radios and MW getting 
zapped! Were do I start?



  Should I go back to the Isolation model and have all gear in tower isolated 
from the tower in any way possible?







  Gino A. Villarini

  President

  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

  www.aeronetpr.com   

  @aeronetpr

Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Shouldn’t be.

From: That One Guy via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

neutral is tied to mechanical ground anywhere there is an outlet anyway. the 
ground lug on an outlet has continuity to neutral, I dont know why

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

  Ground and neutral are not the same.  Yes, they are tied together somewhere, 
probably the transformer.  But you should not use the neutral as a ground or 
tie it to your ground anywhere.


  From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:38 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

  I have a grounding question for the cabinet at the base of the tower. My 
electrician wired in the incoming power to the cabinet but he did not bond the 
cabinet ground/neutral to the actual tower itself. Tower has its own separate 
ground rods and cabinet ground actually is back where the meter base is, (over 
150 feet away) Should I bond the tower and the cabinet together? I already have 
electrical conduit running out of the cabinet and then attaches to the tower 
itself so there is metal to metal contact just wondering if I should have 
something better



  Kurt Fankhauser
  Wavelinc Communications

  P.O. Box 126

  Bucyrus, OH 44820

  http://www.wavelinc.com

  tel. 419-562-6405

  fax. 419-617-0110


  On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Gino Villarini via Af  wrote:

I do think too that isolating its easier and should be the way to go… DC 
plant, fiber up.  Problem would be mounts and tower attachments… thinking of 
using PVC conduit?



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com   
@aeronetpr



From: "af@afmug.com" 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2014 at 7:48 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?


Great question Gino.  I hope we get some good input. 

My opinion is that you have to be completed isolated or extremely properly 
grounded.  Both can be complicated, but the second way being the most 
complicated



Paul



From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino 
Villarini via Af
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?



I remember the good old days that most of our network was based on Canopy 
Classic:



The radios were isolated form the tower, minor lightning issues..



Nowadays its has turned into a big issue for us, radios and MW getting 
zapped! Were do I start?



Should I go back to the Isolation model and have all gear in tower isolated 
from the tower in any way possible?







Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com   

@aeronetpr










-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Yeah, if that was true, you would trip any GFCI which looks for sneak current 
flowing back through ground rather than neutral.  I forget how much but it 
doesn’t take much imbalance between hot and neutral current to trip them, 
something like 10 mA, because that could be going through you.

From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

if you take an outlet thats not wired up i am pretty sure there is no 
continuity between the ground lug and neutral then once you wire it in to 
the breaker box it has continuity because the breaker box has a connection 
between the neutral and ground

Sent from my iPhone 

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Sep 28, 2014, at 11:50 AM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:


  neutral is tied to mechanical ground anywhere there is an outlet anyway. the 
ground lug on an outlet has continuity to neutral, I dont know why

  On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

Ground and neutral are not the same.  Yes, they are tied together 
somewhere, probably the transformer.  But you should not use the neutral as a 
ground or tie it to your ground anywhere.


From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

I have a grounding question for the cabinet at the base of the tower. My 
electrician wired in the incoming power to the cabinet but he did not bond the 
cabinet ground/neutral to the actual tower itself. Tower has its own separate 
ground rods and cabinet ground actually is back where the meter base is, (over 
150 feet away) Should I bond the tower and the cabinet together? I already have 
electrical conduit running out of the cabinet and then attaches to the tower 
itself so there is metal to metal contact just wondering if I should have 
something better



Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

http://www.wavelinc.com

tel. 419-562-6405

fax. 419-617-0110


On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Gino Villarini via Af  wrote:

  I do think too that isolating its easier and should be the way to go… DC 
plant, fiber up.  Problem would be mounts and tower attachments… thinking of 
using PVC conduit?



  Gino A. Villarini
  President
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  www.aeronetpr.com   
  @aeronetpr



  From: "af@afmug.com" 
  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Sunday, September 28, 2014 at 7:48 AM
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?


  Great question Gino.  I hope we get some good input. 

  My opinion is that you have to be completed isolated or extremely 
properly grounded.  Both can be complicated, but the second way being the most 
complicated



  Paul



  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino 
Villarini via Af
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?



  I remember the good old days that most of our network was based on Canopy 
Classic:



  The radios were isolated form the tower, minor lightning issues..



  Nowadays its has turned into a big issue for us, radios and MW getting 
zapped! Were do I start?



  Should I go back to the Isolation model and have all gear in tower 
isolated from the tower in any way possible?







  Gino A. Villarini

  President

  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

  www.aeronetpr.com   

  @aeronetpr










  -- 

  All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the 
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't 
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a 
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I was thinking of a tower with its own transformer on the pole.  I know at the 
breaker panel at the H-frame there is typically a neutral bar and a ground bar, 
and I’ve seen several volts between them, also bad things when some rural 
electrician thinks they are interchangeable (many farmhouses don’t have 
grounded outlets or metal conduit, and some electricians figure neutral is 
better than nothing).

From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

tied together at the transformer? i thought they were tied together in the 
breaket panel

Sent from my iPhone 

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Sep 28, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:


  Ground and neutral are not the same.  Yes, they are tied together somewhere, 
probably the transformer.  But you should not use the neutral as a ground or 
tie it to your ground anywhere.


  From: Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:38 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?

  I have a grounding question for the cabinet at the base of the tower. My 
electrician wired in the incoming power to the cabinet but he did not bond the 
cabinet ground/neutral to the actual tower itself. Tower has its own separate 
ground rods and cabinet ground actually is back where the meter base is, (over 
150 feet away) Should I bond the tower and the cabinet together? I already have 
electrical conduit running out of the cabinet and then attaches to the tower 
itself so there is metal to metal contact just wondering if I should have 
something better



  Kurt Fankhauser
  Wavelinc Communications

  P.O. Box 126

  Bucyrus, OH 44820

  http://www.wavelinc.com

  tel. 419-562-6405

  fax. 419-617-0110


  On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Gino Villarini via Af  wrote:

I do think too that isolating its easier and should be the way to go… DC 
plant, fiber up.  Problem would be mounts and tower attachments… thinking of 
using PVC conduit?



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com   
@aeronetpr



From: "af@afmug.com" 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2014 at 7:48 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?


Great question Gino.  I hope we get some good input. 

My opinion is that you have to be completed isolated or extremely properly 
grounded.  Both can be complicated, but the second way being the most 
complicated



Paul



From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino 
Villarini via Af
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Gear in Tower - Grounded or Isolated?



I remember the good old days that most of our network was based on Canopy 
Classic:



The radios were isolated form the tower, minor lightning issues..



Nowadays its has turned into a big issue for us, radios and MW getting 
zapped! Were do I start?



Should I go back to the Isolation model and have all gear in tower isolated 
from the tower in any way possible?







Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com   

@aeronetpr

[AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I have always assumed the standard channels are 906, 915 and 924.

But I keep getting competitors going on 906 and 922.  I understand they are 
probably trying to avoid high power licensed stuff like paging around 930. 
But if I go on 915, I find it overlaps with 922 and bad juju ensues. 
Especially when this is a newcomer and they have no subs yet and don't match 
your timing and don't care because ... they don't have subs yet and aren't 
suffering the effects of the interference.  I have found that a hot 
interferer on 922 will pretty much blow you off the air if you try to use 
915, unless the timing parameters match, even though that's only 1 MHz of 
overlap.


So are the default channels actually 906, 914 and 922 in the real world? 

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I would go after the usual soft targets – Wordpress and Joomla sites.

From: Josh Reynolds via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection 
attack

Honestly if I was going to exploit this attack vector to the fullest, the very 
first thing I would do is exploit a local machine with malware via email or 
malicious web app... then use said computer to nmap all RFC1918 space and that 
data collection to run various "shellshock" against potential vulnerable 
machines/services.

Always patch your systems.

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 09/28/2014 12:24 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

  so if its a dns server with only dns open on the external firewall, but is 
running a management interface for internal management, is it vulnerable 
eaxternally since the only inbound access are DNS ports and im assuming apche 
doesnt defaultly listen on those ports

  On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:

If it ONLY does dhcp/dns/ntp, that's fine.

If it also has a base apache install, it's likely vulnerable :)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 09/28/2014 06:38 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  Why?

  Take the case of a dedicated server that only does let’s say DHCP or DNS 
or NTP.  It only has one port open to the Internet, and there’s no way to get 
to a bash shell via that port.  How the hell is someone going to pass an 
environment variable to a bash shell on that server?



  From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:40 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables 
codeinjection attack

  Ø  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you 
would need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a 
shell, or find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable 
to bash for you.



  Please don’t think like this.  



  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Ken Hohhof via Af
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:38 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack



  So maybe I won’t do that.



  The newer servers where I could just do a yum update have been 
straightforward, as you’d expect.



  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you 
would need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a 
shell, or find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable 
to bash for you.



  From: Jeremy via Af 

  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack



  Our webserver was vulnerable.  Tried to fix it without backing it up 
firstyeah, I know.  Lost it all.  So I guess I will be building a new 
website from my 2013 backup this weekend.  It's a good thing I carpet bombed my 
website to prevent anyone from messing with it!



  On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

  Unfortunately I have a couple old servers running RHEL4 and one old 
BlueQuartz webhosting appliance based on CentOS4.  I’m a little reluctant to 
try compiling the patch myself unless I switch to a difference shell first, if 
I screw up my command shell it might be difficult to fix.



  Any guess if I’d be safe using the RPM cited in this thread:

  
http://serverfault.com/questions/631055/how-do-i-patch-rhel-4-for-the-bash-vulnerabilities-in-cve-2014-6271-and-cve-2014



  the RPM it points to is:



  
http://public-yum.oracle.com/repo/EnterpriseLinux/EL4/latest/i386/getPackage/bash-3.0-27.0.2.el4.i386.rpm





  From: Ty Featherling via Af 

  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:52 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack



  Yeah probably the NSA! Hahaha! 

  -Ty

  On Sep 26, 2014 10:36 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

  Man I bet theres some guy whose been exploiting this for 20 years who is 
pissed right now



  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Ty Featherling via Af  
wrote:

  CentOS on some, Ubuntu on others. Already got the answers in this thread 
though, thanks. 



  -Ty



  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  
wrote:

  Which distribution?



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com




--

  From: "Ty Featherling via Af" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 

Re: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Funny how the incumbent is the one who has to change because he has customers 
being affected, while the new guy can be a honey badger and not give a s**t.

From: CBB - Jay Fuller via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels


would assume that would be doable, but that leaves no guard bands at all.
we run 906,915,924 and tell everyone else to do so as well...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:18 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

  I have always assumed the standard channels are 906, 915 and 924.

  But I keep getting competitors going on 906 and 922.  I understand they are 
  probably trying to avoid high power licensed stuff like paging around 930. 
  But if I go on 915, I find it overlaps with 922 and bad juju ensues. 
  Especially when this is a newcomer and they have no subs yet and don't match 
  your timing and don't care because ... they don't have subs yet and aren't 
  suffering the effects of the interference.  I have found that a hot 
  interferer on 922 will pretty much blow you off the air if you try to use 
  915, unless the timing parameters match, even though that's only 1 MHz of 
  overlap.

  So are the default channels actually 906, 914 and 922 in the real world? 

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variablescodeinjection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

You are preaching rather than listening.

What if it is an appliance with a distribution that is frozen in time on 
CentOS4 with no updates.  Note that RHEL4 updates are only available via paid 
extended support, and CentOS4 is EOL.  Doing a yum update on a CentOS4 box 
won’t get you anywhere, and I don’t believe RHEL4 even used yum, it used Redhat 
Network to get RPMs.  All my new stuff on CentOS5 and 6 has been updated.

What I was asking for an opinion on was whether the RPM that Oracle made 
available was likely to work, or to brick the box.  Keep in mind that bricking 
your command shell could be difficult to recover from, especially on a headless 
appliance at a remote site.  I’m guessing that creating another user with a 
different shell like csh or ksh might offer a failsafe.  I would have to see 
what other shells are available on the device.

So this is a Tyan kiosk type server with BlueQuartz installed, long ago 
defunct.  Nuonce was maintaining repositories but stopped a long time ago.

Other people are going to face similar situations.  Not every server is built 
from scratch loading the OS and then the applications.  Sometimes you use an 
all-in-one install disk, like CactiEZ or some of the Asterisk/FreePBX 
distributions.  I’m evaluating the PBX appliances from Grandstream, clearly 
they run Asterisk and probably Linux under the hood, but you can’t even get to 
the command line, so any software updates would have to be from the web GUI 
with updates from Grandstream.  So I’m thinking if that’s a problem, being 
totally dependent on the vendor, I guess stuff like routers are the same.  But 
you can’t just go and do a yum update on everything that has Linux inside, or 
recompile the source code with the patch and install it yourself, even assuming 
you feel comfortable doing that.


From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variablescodeinjection 
attack

Quite honestly, who cares?  There’s zero downside to closing the security hole.

 

Hopefully you’re closing all your other security holes too, especially for 
things like DNS or NTP that are almost public facing by default.  Why not close 
this one at the same time?

 

What happens in six months when you, or somebody, stick another service on that 
machine?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection 
attack

 

Why?

 

Take the case of a dedicated server that only does let’s say DHCP or DNS or 
NTP.  It only has one port open to the Internet, and there’s no way to get to a 
bash shell via that port.  How the hell is someone going to pass an environment 
variable to a bash shell on that server?

 

 

 

From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 

Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:40 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables codeinjection 
attack

 

Ø  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would 
need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or 
find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash 
for you.

 

Please don’t think like this.  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

So maybe I won’t do that.

 

The newer servers where I could just do a yum update have been straightforward, 
as you’d expect.

 

I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would need 
to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or find 
a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash for 
you.

 

From: Jeremy via Af 

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

 

Our webserver was vulnerable.  Tried to fix it without backing it up 
firstyeah, I know.  Lost it all.  So I guess I will be building a new 
website from my 2013 backup this weekend.  It's a good thing I carpet bombed my 
website to prevent anyone from messing with it!

 

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

Unfortunately I have a couple old servers running RHEL4 and one old BlueQuartz 
webhosting appliance based on CentOS4.  I’m a little reluctant to try compiling 
the patch myself unless I switch to a difference shell first, if I screw up my 
command shell it might be difficult to fix.

 

Any guess if I’d be safe using the RPM cited in this thread:

http://serverfault.com/questions/631055/how-do-i-patch-rhel-4-for-the-bash-vulnerabilities-in-cve-2014-6271-and-cve

Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Good point about not doing the hard sell on someone who is reluctant.

I don’t feel we make enough money on VoIP to twist someone’s arm, it’s there 
mostly as a convenience for people who want it.  If they don’t want it, fine.

Like people with FAX machines, I’d rather they keep a POTS line, or use eFAX 
which is what I do.  I recently had a guy with a new house with an elevator, 
and he found out he was required to have an emergency phone in the elevator.  
Sure enough, he found out it had to be POTS.  Also we don’t really want “high 
risk” service where failure could result in personal injury or damage to 
property.


From: Chris Fabien via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

We do the installs same day, and explain to customer whatever will be required 
to hook up their phones to the new service on number port day. 


Like Ken, most are sold as a bundle, few add later. We don't have much 
"convincing" to do usually, but if they start asking a lot of questions about 
reliability/quality we steer them away from the voip service. Unlicensed 
Wireless + VOIP is not the same as a landline, if that's the customer's 
expectation it's probably not a good match. 




On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Nate Burke via Af  wrote:

  Do you schedule both the Wireless and ATA install on the same day, or are 
they 2 installs?  If they are the same day, how do you convince the customer of 
switching their Phone over when they don't even have the service yet.  Don't 
they question your reliability since their sisters daughters ex-boyfriends 
cousin had wireless once, and it dropped out this one time so it's not 
reliable?  

  On 9/27/2014 4:35 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote: 
I forgot to address the due date issue.  Like Jeremy, I try to schedule the 
install on the porting due date.  We don’t get an exact time, but ports usually 
take effect around 8-9 am, rarely will it not be complete if you schedule a 
late morning or an afternoon install.

Also note that many residential people use their landlines mostly to call 
out, other people call them on their cellphones because they don’t know if they 
will be home or not.  Couple that with the fact that you can call out on the 
VoIP line and have the caller ID show the right number even before it ports, 
it’s the incoming calls that won’t get routed to the VoIP line until the number 
ports.  So if you can’t schedule the install the same day, many people will be 
OK if you install it the day before.

If they are going to use exclusively a cordless phone, most people can 
handle unplugging it from the wall and plugging it into the ATA on the morning 
of the porting due date.


From: Chris Fabien via Af 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Physically Hooking up Voip Lines

We are moving toward strongly suggesting customers not use the house 
wiring. Seen way too many issues with poor house wiring causing problems or 
with damaged ATAs after lightning strikes. 

Our experience, many houses have hacked up phone wiring that somehow works 
OK for landline service but the ATAs don't tolerate it. Makes for a difficult 
conversation explaining to customer who wired up their house with radioshack 
phone cords and splitters, laying on ground in the wet crawlspace, why their 
new VOIP service isn't reliable. 


On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

  I install every VoIP customer for no additional charge.  I know the port 
date before it happens so I always schedule the install for that day, and let 
them know when we begin the process that they may be without for a few hours on 
the day that the porting completes.  Most VoIP installs are simple, like two 
minutes.  Occasionally we run into the nightmare installs.  I ask them and if 
they just use one expandable cordless set I don't touch the wiring.  Otherwise 
we do the whole home install.  I'd say the majority are whole home installs.  
We try to make sure that we bring the wire into the hub whenever possible, or 
near a phone jack.  That way if they decide that they want VoIP down the road 
it is an easy install.  I always consider the potential VoIP install when doing 
the wireless install.

  On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

I will only rely on the customer to install the ATA if they are going 
to plug a cordless base into it, no house wiring.  Otherwise, they will forget 
to disconnect the POTS line at the NID.

Most people have a cordless phone system, but they may also have an old 
princess phone somewhere in the house, first try to convince them to ditch the 
corded phones and not use the house wiring.  Failing that, have your installer 
tell them the router and ATA have to go near a phone jack.

If they insist on puttin

Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variablescodeinjection attack

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I’ll bet you have a favorite brand of gasoline too.

From: Josh Reynolds via Af 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variablescodeinjection 
attack

You're right, yum updates are probably a problem for those pesky RedHat/Centos 
distros.

Move to debian :P

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 09/28/2014 05:55 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

  You are preaching rather than listening.

  What if it is an appliance with a distribution that is frozen in time on 
CentOS4 with no updates.  Note that RHEL4 updates are only available via paid 
extended support, and CentOS4 is EOL.  Doing a yum update on a CentOS4 box 
won’t get you anywhere, and I don’t believe RHEL4 even used yum, it used Redhat 
Network to get RPMs.  All my new stuff on CentOS5 and 6 has been updated.

  What I was asking for an opinion on was whether the RPM that Oracle made 
available was likely to work, or to brick the box.  Keep in mind that bricking 
your command shell could be difficult to recover from, especially on a headless 
appliance at a remote site.  I’m guessing that creating another user with a 
different shell like csh or ksh might offer a failsafe.  I would have to see 
what other shells are available on the device.

  So this is a Tyan kiosk type server with BlueQuartz installed, long ago 
defunct.  Nuonce was maintaining repositories but stopped a long time ago.

  Other people are going to face similar situations.  Not every server is built 
from scratch loading the OS and then the applications.  Sometimes you use an 
all-in-one install disk, like CactiEZ or some of the Asterisk/FreePBX 
distributions.  I’m evaluating the PBX appliances from Grandstream, clearly 
they run Asterisk and probably Linux under the hood, but you can’t even get to 
the command line, so any software updates would have to be from the web GUI 
with updates from Grandstream.  So I’m thinking if that’s a problem, being 
totally dependent on the vendor, I guess stuff like routers are the same.  But 
you can’t just go and do a yum update on everything that has Linux inside, or 
recompile the source code with the patch and install it yourself, even assuming 
you feel comfortable doing that.


  From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:00 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment 
variablescodeinjection attack

  Quite honestly, who cares?  There’s zero downside to closing the security 
hole.

   

  Hopefully you’re closing all your other security holes too, especially for 
things like DNS or NTP that are almost public facing by default.  Why not close 
this one at the same time?

   

  What happens in six months when you, or somebody, stick another service on 
that machine?

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:38 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables 
codeinjection attack

   

  Why?

   

  Take the case of a dedicated server that only does let’s say DHCP or DNS or 
NTP.  It only has one port open to the Internet, and there’s no way to get to a 
bash shell via that port.  How the hell is someone going to pass an environment 
variable to a bash shell on that server?

   

   

   

  From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 

  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:40 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables 
codeinjection attack

   

  Ø  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would 
need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or 
find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash 
for you.

   

  Please don’t think like this.  

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof via Af
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:38 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

   

  So maybe I won’t do that.

   

  The newer servers where I could just do a yum update have been 
straightforward, as you’d expect.

   

  I think the articles have maybe overstated the risk a bit, since you would 
need to either authenticate (at least as a regular user) to get to a shell, or 
find a publicly exposed script that will pass an environment variable to bash 
for you.

   

  From: Jeremy via Af 

  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bash specially-crafted environment variables code 
injection attack

   

  Our webserver was vulnerable.  Tried to fix it without backing it up 
firstyeah, I know.  Lost it all.  So I guess I will be building a new 
website from my 2013 backup this weekend.  It's a good thing I carpet bombed my 
website 

Re: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

OK, thanks.

From: Shayne Lebrun via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

906,915,924 are the way to go. 

 

Properly synced Canopy needs no guardband.  Properly synced ePMP needs 5mhz 
guardband.  Unsynced anything technically needs guardband=2*channelwidth.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+slebrun=muskoka@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - 
Jay Fuller via Af
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

 

 

would assume that would be doable, but that leaves no guard bands at all.

we run 906,915,924 and tell everyone else to do so as well...

 

  - Original Message - 

  From: Ken Hohhof via Af 

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:18 PM

  Subject: [AFMUG] standard 900 MHz Canopy channels

   

  I have always assumed the standard channels are 906, 915 and 924.

  But I keep getting competitors going on 906 and 922.  I understand they are 
  probably trying to avoid high power licensed stuff like paging around 930. 
  But if I go on 915, I find it overlaps with 922 and bad juju ensues. 
  Especially when this is a newcomer and they have no subs yet and don't match 
  your timing and don't care because ... they don't have subs yet and aren't 
  suffering the effects of the interference.  I have found that a hot 
  interferer on 922 will pretty much blow you off the air if you try to use 
  915, unless the timing parameters match, even though that's only 1 MHz of 
  overlap.

  So are the default channels actually 906, 914 and 922 in the real world? 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Wireless Scan

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Oh, I miss the days when I had smartBridges backhauls and they couldn’t display 
all the SSIDs they saw, they’d pick up the hotspot at a Flying J 50 miles away. 
 You get 100 feet off the ground and you see everybody’s Linksys for miles 
around.  I guess if you’re in a 10 MHz channel it would narrow the list quite a 
bit, maybe try setting the radios for a narrow channel, align them, then go to 
the channel width you really want.


From: Paul McCall via Af 
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Wireless Scan

Wireless, Monitor should show you that.

 

Tools, eDetect will show you the signal strength of anything on the channel by 
MAC only.  Might help you get close… ePMP MACs start with 00:04.   

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+paulm=pdmnet@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike 
Hammett via Af
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:29 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP Wireless Scan

 

Is there any way for an ePMP radio to scan the air and tell you what SSIDs it 
sees? I'm trying to align two backhauls that when pointed roughly the same 
direction...  can't see each other. I don't want to just move it slightly and 
wait for the web interface to show it connected...  or not.

I want to run a scan, see it complete and tell me what it found.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [AFMUG] iOS update = Expedited Forwarding?

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I assumed most upstreams cleared the DSCP tags for transit traffic across 
their networks.  Apparently that was an incorrect assumption.  It sure opens 
up the potential for apps, malware, and pesky customers to abuse it.  Cool, 
I can tag all my traffic high priority!



-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett via Af

Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] iOS update = Expedited Forwarding?

Me too.

On the one hand, VoIP from Ring Central and some others comes through
with an appropriate DSCP tag.  On the other hand, so do iOS updates for
some reason.


On 9/29/2014 12:24 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
You must have a carrier that doesn't zero the DSCP field. I both like and 
hate that at the same time.


On 9/29/2014 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that lots of traffic from Apple 17.0.0.0/8 has 
DSCP 46 set?


Canopy users with iPhones may find that the update is interfering with 
their regular internet usage unless you take measures to de-prioritize 
that.