[amsat-bb] 10 meter yagi??

[Kevin Deane]

If I suspended a few  directors in front of a 10 meter dipole with a reflector 
of course, would that work?

Kevin
KF7MYK

  
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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[Richard Grabotin]

Thank you everyone for your help. I had my first successful contact on SO-50. 

AO-27 appears to be on hiatus, since the website is also down. 

My next endeavor is learning the linear transponder birds. I have been trying 
to receive AO-7. I never heard a beacon on either mode A or B. (Daytime pass) I 
tuned around the downlink and I might have heard some very faint stations. I 
guess I need bigger antennas? Perhaps some phasing cables will help. (it's in 
the mail)

Thank you KB5WIA for the contact this evening. 


Richard 
K7LWV


On Oct 24, 2011, at 6:31 AM, David Palmer KB5WIA  wrote:

> Hi Richard,
> 
>> . I am using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio 
>> deluxe. Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 
>> meter antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing 
>> cables still have not arrived from the manufacturer.
> 
> Good setup!
> 
>> 
>> My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
>> why I could not raise or hear it?
> 
> Yes, it's on a schedule -- check the status page on www.amsat.org to
> see when it comes on and off. It comes on at mid-latitudes by a timer,
> so for an overhead pass in your area you *should* have heard it 
> other things to check would be that the keps are current, and that
> there weren't any glitches during that particular pass (ie. maybe
> radios briefly stopped tuning).  Try again, it's a nice loud sat.
> 
>> 
>> As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is 
>> controlling the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down 
>> and corrected for Doppler. This still did not seem to help.
> 
> I've found SO-50 about 5kHz-8kHz down, so listen down a little.
> Remember the tone on the uplink too.  Also, I've seen quite a few
> posts that the TS-2000 has a birdie right at the high end of SO-50's
> downlink, so you may have a better chance hearing it later in the pass
> as doppler moves the downlink away from the birdie.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard
>> K7LWV
> 
> Good luck on the sats
> 
> 73 de Dave KB5WIA

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[amsat-bb] Re: HO-68

[saguaroastro]

As I recall, HO-68 had a stuck relay that was preventing it from changing 
Modes. The Command team was trying to find a work around but put the chance of 
success at about 10%.

Not sure I'd be Holding my breath. Hope (pun in tended) they do manage to bring 
this bird back. It was a lot of fun to work.

73 Rick
K7TEJ 

 Michael Schulz  wrote: 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Ted wrote:
> 
> > If memory serves, a couple of months ago, one of the principles posted that
> > they were trying to fix something but that it was coming back.
> > 
> > Time for an official update from the HO-68 folks
> 
> And time to bury that other negative crap and get back to satellite business 
> :) 
> 
> Stop global whining!
> 
> 73 Mike K5TRI
> 
> p.s.: Instead of complaining, get outside or even better in between passes 
> get on HF 
> and enjoy the awesome conditions we have right now. 
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Stefan Wagener]

Sorry Domenico,

At this point having a "positive meeting" does nothing for P3-E. P5 is
only a valid option in the future if it is designed for a moon orbit.
The Mars option is an amateur radio user nightmare and ill conceived.
Any CubeSat will do more for us than a P5 around Mars because of the
hardware requirements for the majority of amateur radio satellite
operators. Thanks, but I believe it when I see it and I don't see it
and that's why I stopped to support it.

Stefan, VE4NSA



On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM, i8cvs  wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bruce" 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:56 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
>
>> notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating.
>> cant wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us.
>>
>> 73...bruce
>
> Hi Bruce, KK5DO
>
> Well,  AMSAT-DL is working hard to find a possibility to launch P3-E, most
> likely along with P5.
>
> They recently had a surprisingly positive meeting with the head of DLR and
> members of their Ministry, another meeting was request by them for next
> month.
>
> Keep in mind, that it also took more than 10 years to launch P3-D, but
> indeed it's a long way since AO-40,,,
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Tony Langdon]

At 11:26 AM 10/25/2011, Diane Bruce wrote:


Yes it is. It is ONLY a freakin' Hobby. If we want kids in our freakin'
HOBBY we need to make it *FUN*. Learning stuff, radio stuff, building
stuff learning what radio is how antennas work. All that stuff.


Agree with the "fun" bit, but "fun" can be defined in so many ways, 
so whatever floats your boat, if it's to do with ham radio, all's 
well and good.  Everything you've listed... and more!




> There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and
> knowledge allow you to.  Making a choice to not participate in the service

And that is the marketable skill. Many many hams are also computer
types, physicists, engineers.


Who knows where ham radio skills come in handy.  Just came back from 
a local incident, where a key part of the infrastructure failed.  I 
was probably the first to recognise the nature of the problem, though 
not able to directly help at the time (due to only having a receiver 
in the car).  Eventually, another channel was found, and I helped out 
with testing to ensure it would be workable until the network is fixed.



> EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with.  Many

No, EMCOMM is the cancer that is eating Amateur Radio.


No, EMCOMM is just another aspect of the hobby.  It works for some, 
not for others.



But EMCOMM is still not the only reason someone should be getting
into amateur radio.
EMCOMM is what discourages the youth of today from particpating in ham
radio. Get the kids in, get them excited, get them interested in DSP
combining radio and computers, show them FUN. Don't sell them on EMCOMM.


It's not the ONLY reason to get involved, but for some it is A 
reason.  I agree that the exciting technical developments such as DSP 
and SDR should be promoted to the younger generation, as well as all 
of the "How it works" and DYI that you can get into.  And for others, 
the thrill of catching that rare DX is the excitement (though not 
high on my personal priority list).  Others will be interested in the 
Internet connected modes (IRLP, Echolink, D-STAR, etc), and some will 
be drawn to the simplicity and uniqueness of Morse Code, or perhaps 
operating old boat anchors on AM.  All aspects of the hobby need to 
be promoted, people will find their own personal reasons to join 
in... or not.  And yes, there will be a small number civic minded 
young people who want to be able to get into EMCOMM.  We just have to 
make sure we don't sell ourselves short.


73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: "Bruce" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:56 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

> notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating.
> cant wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us.
>
> 73...bruce

Hi Bruce, KK5DO

Well,  AMSAT-DL is working hard to find a possibility to launch P3-E, most
likely along with P5.

They recently had a surprisingly positive meeting with the head of DLR and
members of their Ministry, another meeting was request by them for next
month.

Keep in mind, that it also took more than 10 years to launch P3-D, but
indeed it's a long way since AO-40,,,

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

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[amsat-bb] ARRISAT and a fun afternoon on AO51

[James Luhn]

I have been trying to use ARRISAT-1 for the past couple of days.  
Despite the fact it was almost directly overhead, I could not get my SSB 
signal through the transponder.  I am using an IC-910 and arrow beam.  I 
am fully aware of the antenna issue on the lady.  Today I did not hear 
anything from the satellite.  Has anyone been working through the 
satellite the past couple of day?  Perhaps I have something wrong.  The 
same rig and antenna works fine with the other satellites.  With AO51, I 
run it at the minimum power which is probably about 5 watts.


I had several pleasant exchanges on AO-51 today.  The thrill has not 
worn off for me and I doubt it ever will.  Yep, I have worked several 
before but it is always nice to say hi to an old or new friend.


A big thank you to all involved who keep the old birds working.  Most of 
us do not keep a rig as long as some of the still working birds have 
been flying.  Too bad a service call cannot be made on the dormant ones.


73,
-james
W5AOO
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[amsat-bb] ...on the way to San Jose Repeaters

[James Luhn]

I know that there are several repeaters in San Jose.  Is there anyone in 
particular that AMSAT members will be using during the Symposium?


I am looking so forward to meeting everyone, especially those who have 
been so kind to help me get up and running on the satellites.


73 & 88,
-james
W5AOO
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Bruce]

notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating. cant 
wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us. 

73...bruce

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Gregg Wonderly  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 10/24/2011 11:44 AM, Diane Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200
>>> "i8cvs"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
 
 The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
 Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
 following :
>>> 
>>> And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC 
>>> regulations, because they are irrelevant.  If the FCC and ARRL want to turn 
>>> amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great.  Don't 
>>> pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
>>> 
>>> The IARU trumps the FCC.
>> 
>> Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary
>> service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with
>> radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
> 
> The Amateur Radio service is the service.  The FCC regs say that.  I you take 
> your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as a 
> hobby, more power too you.  But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY".  There 
> are services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge 
> allow you to.  Making a choice to not participate in the service part, is 
> your choice, no one can make you do that.  But, how other amateurs see you 
> and treat you may be driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" and ride 
> the coat tails of the others who are making the service really be a value to 
> your community.
> 
> EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with.  Many times, 
> you may not be needed.  But, it's another aspect of your skill set that you 
> can improve on through experience.  If you just want to rag chew and consume 
> a frequency, then you can do that.  But it is little effort to occasionally 
> sign up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help so that others 
> who want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of their lives can 
> do that too.
> 
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Diane Bruce]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 06:36:47PM -0500, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> 
> 
...
> >
> >Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary
> >service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with
> >radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
> 
> The Amateur Radio service is the service.  The FCC regs say that.  I you 
> take your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as 
> a hobby, more power too you.  But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY".  

Yes it is. It is ONLY a freakin' Hobby. If we want kids in our freakin'
HOBBY we need to make it *FUN*. Learning stuff, radio stuff, building
stuff learning what radio is how antennas work. All that stuff.

> There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and
> knowledge allow you to.  Making a choice to not participate in the service

And that is the marketable skill. Many many hams are also computer
types, physicists, engineers.

> part, is your choice, no one can make you do that.  But, how other amateurs 
> see you and treat you may be driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" 
> and ride the coat tails of the others who are making the service really be 
> a value to your community.
> 
> EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with.  Many 

No, EMCOMM is the cancer that is eating Amateur Radio.

> times, you may not be needed.  But, it's another aspect of your skill set 
> that you can improve on through experience.  If you just want to rag chew 
> and consume a frequency, then you can do that.  But it is little effort to 
> occasionally sign up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help 
> so that others who want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of 
> their lives can do that too.

I have signed up to help community events, I have done my share.
many times. I have done my share of many hours of CW traffic
handling. I learned a lot about how to run nets both on CW and SSB.

But EMCOMM is still not the only reason someone should be getting
into amateur radio.
EMCOMM is what discourages the youth of today from particpating in ham
radio. Get the kids in, get them excited, get them interested in DSP
combining radio and computers, show them FUN. Don't sell them on EMCOMM.

Turn it the other way around. Both the RAC and the ARRL have been hard selling
EMCOMM for years. How well has that worked for bringing in the younger ham?

Sorry Greg, we ain't going to see eye to eye on this one.

Please re-read what I have said. I am not against being ready to help
in community service. I have DONE SO many times. I am not against being
ready to help in an emergency. I am on the local emrg list if that
(hopefully never) ever happens, I will and can show up and do my bit as a 
communicator. I did not get into ham radio to stand in the cold on a rainy
day to help some bicycle tour. I got into ham radio because I was
interested in how RADIO worked. It also served me well career wise.

All I am trying to say is we need to restore a bit of balance. That's all.

> 
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
> ___

Diane Bruce
VA3DB
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
  Why leave money to our children if we don't leave them the Earth?
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[amsat-bb] See and listen to SRMVU CW telemetry Beacon !

[Nader Omer]

Hi
SRMVU CW Telemetry Beacon vedio clip.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtKELEQr2I
 
73's
Nader
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Gregg Wonderly]

On 10/24/2011 11:44 AM, Diane Bruce wrote:

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200
"i8cvs"  wrote:



Hi Kevin, KF7MYK

The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
following :


And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, 
because they are irrelevant.  If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into 
"all emcomm, all the time" then that's great.  Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of 
the hobby with that rubbish, though.

The IARU trumps the FCC.


Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary
service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with
radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.


The Amateur Radio service is the service.  The FCC regs say that.  I you take 
your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as a hobby, 
more power too you.  But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY".  There are 
services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge allow you 
to.  Making a choice to not participate in the service part, is your choice, no 
one can make you do that.  But, how other amateurs see you and treat you may be 
driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" and ride the coat tails of the 
others who are making the service really be a value to your community.


EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with.  Many times, 
you may not be needed.  But, it's another aspect of your skill set that you can 
improve on through experience.  If you just want to rag chew and consume a 
frequency, then you can do that.  But it is little effort to occasionally sign 
up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help so that others who 
want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of their lives can do that 
too.


Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW
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[amsat-bb] Re: HO-68

[Michael Schulz]

On Oct 24, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Ted wrote:

> If memory serves, a couple of months ago, one of the principles posted that
> they were trying to fix something but that it was coming back.
> 
> Time for an official update from the HO-68 folks

And time to bury that other negative crap and get back to satellite business :) 

Stop global whining!

73 Mike K5TRI

p.s.: Instead of complaining, get outside or even better in between passes get 
on HF 
and enjoy the awesome conditions we have right now. 
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Gary "Joe" Mayfield]

Thanks Jeff,

You are making sense.  I miss AO-10, 13, and AO-40 (I worked them all).
The complaints are amazing though.  Our choice was mini satellites or no
satellites.  I still think some mini satellites is better than no
satellites.  Enjoy what we have.  If you hate only having mini satellites
please launch an HEO.  I will be happy to support you.  But do you really
think complaining about the lack of HEO birds gets one closer to orbit?

My Thoughts,
Joe kk0sd
 
-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Welsh
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 11:21 AM
To: Thomas Schaefer
Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

Same here. If I hear a portable station in the FM pileup, most likely that's
the one I'll want to work before the others! Working the LEO portable and
handheld is quite a handful, literally and I admire that!

There has been quite alot of negative interaction as of late on this email
reflector that I simply do not understand.
Amateur Radio is what you make of it, whether it be operating the world QRP
or working FM satellites portable, do what interests you in the hobby and do
it well!. All this uneccessary negativity is getting quite old.
Instead of complaining in a public forum about which operator did what, etc,
how about elmer them and help them become a better operator. Who knows, you
may learn something in the process.

--jeff
N3QO

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Thomas Schaefer  wrote:

> I do not understand the purpose to belittle people that want to use the
> satellite on an HT. I can use my 9100, but it is a nice intro to be in the
> yard or a beach with an HT and an Arrow antenna. What purpose does it
serve
> to take that away from someone if it does not fit your idea of what
> operating should be?
>
> Tom NY4I
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, John Becker wrote:
>
> > I got to agree with you.
> >
> > The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the
> > "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> > Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> > Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> > Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> >
> > Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> >
> > John, W0JAB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
> >> Gentlemen,
> >>
> >> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
> >>
> >> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> >
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[amsat-bb] HO-68

[Ted]

If memory serves, a couple of months ago, one of the principles posted that
they were trying to fix something but that it was coming back.

Time for an official update from the HO-68 folks

K7TRK



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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Michael Schulz]

So what happened to HO68? Any news? Would be great to have that bird back.

Cheers,
Mike

p.s.: Please don't change the subject line or omit the Re: if you reply in 
order to keep the 
thread intact and sortable as such.

On Oct 24, 2011, at 5:54 PM, Ted wrote:

> Alan, comments well stated and  I agree with you but its kind of just part
> of the human condition. I have seen the same attitudes in r/c planes clubs,
> r/c boat clubs, gun clubs, sports car clubs, etc. There always seems to be a
> group of the 'old guard' who would complain if you hung them with a new
> rope. Then there is a group at the other end of the spectrum that have a
> better way (at least in their minds) of doing things. Then there is the core
> group who just wait out the battle and things return to sanity.
> 
> This thread soon will pass and someone will ask "what happened to HO68..."
> and away we go again.
> 
> 73, Ted, K7TRK
> Proud No Code Appliance Operator and Ham Radio Hobbyist
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Cresswell
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 3:10 PM
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites
> 
> Unfortunately it seems that this sort of posting has become almost the norm
> on this bb.  The attitude that my way is the only way and your way is a load
> of rubbish and to prove it I will produce caricature of your way which shows
> how simple minded you are.
> So those who operate computer controlled stations buy everything and have
> apparently never built anything in their lives.
> Cubesats become beepsats which are poorly built and never operate in orbit
> and the builders don't care.
> FMsats are the realm of poor operators and the linear sats are the only way
> to go.
> LEO,s are a waste of time and HEO is all that matters.  etc. etc.
> 
> I am old enough to remember when there was such a thing as "The Amateurs
> Code".  Article 4 stated that "Kindly assistance, cooperation and
> consideration for the interests of others; these are the marks of the
> amateur spirit." Presumably written at a time when diversity of interests
> was celebrated and not denigrated. 
> Oh well, I guess I am just living in the past.
> 
> 73
> Alan
> ZL2BX
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce
> Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 16:29
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites
> 
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:47:00 -0500
> John Becker  wrote:
> 
>> I got to agree with you.
>> 
>> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
>> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
>> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
>> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> 
> Standing in your back yard with an FM handie and a homebrew antenna is a
> great way to communicate, and I'd recommend it to anyone.  It takes skill to
> build a decent aerial, build a diplexer, set it all up and work out where to
> point.  These are skills that anyone can learn, if they choose to.  Where's
> the skill in the "armchair copy" computer-controlled stuff?  You buy some
> aerials, buy the brackets, buy a rotator, buy a CAT cable, buy some
> proprietary software to drive it, and then plug it together.  If you can
> wave a credit card and click through the install wizard, you're on the air.
> 
>> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> 
> Yup, it's nice being able to catch up with friends in another country,
> quickly and easily.
> 
>> Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> 
> If you want to sit in front of your computer and have it steer the aerial
> and do all the tuning, then that's great.  You could get the same effect by
> using Skype.
> 
> I honestly cannot see the attraction in HEO satellites, and I *am* old
> enough to have experienced them when they were working.  Maybe there's
> something subtle I'm missing, I don't know.  I just don't get it.
> 
> -- 
> Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 
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> 
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[amsat-bb] There's no usable satellites

[Ted]

Alan, comments well stated and  I agree with you but its kind of just part
of the human condition. I have seen the same attitudes in r/c planes clubs,
r/c boat clubs, gun clubs, sports car clubs, etc. There always seems to be a
group of the 'old guard' who would complain if you hung them with a new
rope. Then there is a group at the other end of the spectrum that have a
better way (at least in their minds) of doing things. Then there is the core
group who just wait out the battle and things return to sanity.

This thread soon will pass and someone will ask "what happened to HO68..."
and away we go again.

73, Ted, K7TRK
Proud No Code Appliance Operator and Ham Radio Hobbyist

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Cresswell
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 3:10 PM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

Unfortunately it seems that this sort of posting has become almost the norm
on this bb.  The attitude that my way is the only way and your way is a load
of rubbish and to prove it I will produce caricature of your way which shows
how simple minded you are.
So those who operate computer controlled stations buy everything and have
apparently never built anything in their lives.
Cubesats become beepsats which are poorly built and never operate in orbit
and the builders don't care.
FMsats are the realm of poor operators and the linear sats are the only way
to go.
LEO,s are a waste of time and HEO is all that matters.  etc. etc.

I am old enough to remember when there was such a thing as "The Amateurs
Code".  Article 4 stated that "Kindly assistance, cooperation and
consideration for the interests of others; these are the marks of the
amateur spirit." Presumably written at a time when diversity of interests
was celebrated and not denigrated. 
Oh well, I guess I am just living in the past.

73
Alan
ZL2BX

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 16:29
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:47:00 -0500
John Becker  wrote:

> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.

Standing in your back yard with an FM handie and a homebrew antenna is a
great way to communicate, and I'd recommend it to anyone.  It takes skill to
build a decent aerial, build a diplexer, set it all up and work out where to
point.  These are skills that anyone can learn, if they choose to.  Where's
the skill in the "armchair copy" computer-controlled stuff?  You buy some
aerials, buy the brackets, buy a rotator, buy a CAT cable, buy some
proprietary software to drive it, and then plug it together.  If you can
wave a credit card and click through the install wizard, you're on the air.

> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

Yup, it's nice being able to catch up with friends in another country,
quickly and easily.

> Sure do (still) miss AO-40

If you want to sit in front of your computer and have it steer the aerial
and do all the tuning, then that's great.  You could get the same effect by
using Skype.

I honestly cannot see the attraction in HEO satellites, and I *am* old
enough to have experienced them when they were working.  Maybe there's
something subtle I'm missing, I don't know.  I just don't get it.

-- 
Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 
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[amsat-bb] n3ykf travel plans 10/27-10/30

[normn3ykf]

Hi all!
I'll be helping my wife relocate this week. We'll start in FN22 and drive to 
EL89 taking three days to do it. Will work all ao-51/so-50 passes.
If you're waiting for a card from my previous travels, I'll get them out after 
the trip. If you need one for an award (sooner!), drop me a note.
Norm n3ykf
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Alan Cresswell]

Unfortunately it seems that this sort of posting has become almost the norm
on this bb.  The attitude that my way is the only way and your way is a load
of rubbish and to prove it I will produce caricature of your way which shows
how simple minded you are.
So those who operate computer controlled stations buy everything and have
apparently never built anything in their lives.
Cubesats become beepsats which are poorly built and never operate in orbit
and the builders don't care.
FMsats are the realm of poor operators and the linear sats are the only way
to go.
LEO,s are a waste of time and HEO is all that matters.  etc. etc.

I am old enough to remember when there was such a thing as "The Amateurs
Code".  Article 4 stated that "Kindly assistance, cooperation and
consideration for the interests of others; these are the marks of the
amateur spirit." Presumably written at a time when diversity of interests
was celebrated and not denigrated. 
Oh well, I guess I am just living in the past.

73
Alan
ZL2BX

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 16:29
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:47:00 -0500
John Becker  wrote:

> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.

Standing in your back yard with an FM handie and a homebrew antenna is a
great way to communicate, and I'd recommend it to anyone.  It takes skill to
build a decent aerial, build a diplexer, set it all up and work out where to
point.  These are skills that anyone can learn, if they choose to.  Where's
the skill in the "armchair copy" computer-controlled stuff?  You buy some
aerials, buy the brackets, buy a rotator, buy a CAT cable, buy some
proprietary software to drive it, and then plug it together.  If you can
wave a credit card and click through the install wizard, you're on the air.

> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

Yup, it's nice being able to catch up with friends in another country,
quickly and easily.

> Sure do (still) miss AO-40

If you want to sit in front of your computer and have it steer the aerial
and do all the tuning, then that's great.  You could get the same effect by
using Skype.

I honestly cannot see the attraction in HEO satellites, and I *am* old
enough to have experienced them when they were working.  Maybe there's
something subtle I'm missing, I don't know.  I just don't get it.

-- 
Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Tony Langdon]

At 03:21 AM 10/25/2011, Jeff Welsh wrote:

Same here. If I hear a portable station in the FM pileup, most likely that's
the one I'll want to work before the others! Working the LEO portable and
handheld is quite a handful, literally and I admire that!


Used to do it all the time, quite a lot of fun, and quite an 
impressive demonstration for lay people, when they see you pointing 
an antenna at some "random" part of the sky and can hear all those 
voices from interstate. :)


Probably the most fun I've had working satellites was giving 
demonstrations at a hamfest.  What made this so much fun was it was a 
team effort by several club members, where we had a couple outside 
rotating the antennas, while others were inside operating the 
radio.  We did everything manually - antenna pointing, Doppler 
correction, the works.  Worked both FM and SSB/CW birds with that 
setup, with a lot of success in an environment that turned out to be 
extremely demanding, from the coordination required, to the high 
ambient (acoustic) noise level at the operating position.  Still, it 
was a heap of fun. :)


73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Ted]

Andras, please mail your 847 to me collect. I'll pay the postage

Thanks, Ted
K7TRK

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Bato,Andras
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:28 AM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] There's no usable satellites

Gentlemen,

I have spent too much money on an FT-847!

I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!

There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.

The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.

F2IL is in my log about 300 times...

Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans 
of IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far 
as I know.

Satellite activity is seriously declining!

gl de ha6nn
Andras







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[amsat-bb] A suggestion

[dsp engineer]

You will find the same situation on VHF/UHF FM and on VHF/UHF weak signal and 
the same complaints.  
I heard the same complaints with regard to the analog sats back in the days of 
AO-13 -- same guys always on, hogging the pass band, running too much power, 
etc.  

Solution - Try something new for a few weeks or months - HF, PSK31, FM simplex, 
6 meter FM, 6 M ssb, 40 meter cw, etc.  
When you get bored with that, then try the sats again.  

Tim AA6DQ  





> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:47:00 -0500
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> From: w0...@big-river.net
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites
> 
> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> 
> Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> 
> John, W0JAB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
> >
> >I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> 
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> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  
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[amsat-bb] Time is Running Out

[Martha]

This is a reminder that 1 week from today, the on-line registration for the
2011 AMSAT Space Symposium and Annual Meeting will close.  If you are
planning to attend the meeting, please register as soon as possible. After
Monday, you will need to register at the hotel.

-- 
73- Martha
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[amsat-bb] Re: Antennas For AO-7 Mode A

[Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)]

Hi Bernhard!

> I'm looking for a suitable antenna that I can use to operate over AO-7 in
> mode A .  The main requirement that it be hand-held.

Other than what KA3HSW suggested, the closest thing to a handheld
10m antenna may be a whip of some sort.  Or possibly go with some
sort of wire antenna.  Still not truly handheld, but a small antenna for
10m will make hearing the downlink a tough exercise.

During the past summer, I took out my Buddipole dipole and its 8-foot
mast and tripod to work with AO-7 in mode A.  I settled on an L
configuration, where the horizontal part of the antenna pointed toward
the satellite.  I would move the antenna every minute or so, and held
my Elk antenna toward the satellite for the 2m uplink.  That worked
OK, but not great.  I could easily hear my 5W CW signals from an
FT-817ND through the mode A transponder.  It was much harder
when I went to SSB at the same power level.  I made one mode A
SSB QSO with W7JPI, and that was hard work.  Now that I have a
back yard to work from, coupled with the end of the summer heat
here in Arizona, I may revisit that over the next few months.

Good luck, and 73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/

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[amsat-bb] satellite traffic

[jerry keeton]

I have at times patiently awaited the pass of the ISS to work a different 
packet station only to miss the opportunity by the repeater being busy the 
entire pass by trying to deliver BBS mailbox messages to someone and that 
station never retrieves his mail . It's just one of those things We endure . I 
have been calling 2   HF traffic nets for several years and have attempted to 
pass traffic to someone in the same town as the message is to be passed to , 
only to have that station deny taking that traffic . Why would anyone check in 
to a" traffic net "and then refuse to handle local traffic ? Sometimes I just 
don't get it , but We hang in there regardless . 73's

Jerry WB5LHD
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[W4ART Arthur Feller]

Hi, Bob!!

Ultimate authority rests with Member states (note the capital "M"), which have 
made an agreement (treaty) with each other.  The treaty basis comes from the 
notion that if the various parties can't play well together, everyone will be 
harmed.


See:  CONSTITUTION OF THE INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATION UNION

Preamble

1   While fully recognizing the sovereign right of each State to regulate its 
telecommunication and having regard to the growing importance of 
telecommunication for the preservation of peace and the economic and social 
development of all States … .


ITU, itself, serves only the functions agreed to by ITU Plenipotentiary 
Conferences and added to the International Telecommunication Convention, the 
treaty, and the radio regulations, which are annexed to the treaty and have the 
same status as the basic treaty.

The world expects more of amateurs than every other radiocommunication service, 
since all others involve specific notification and coordination requirements.

Amateurs have long been expected to manage and coordinate their own use of 
frequencies.  "Listen before transmitting" works in many cases.  Satellites 
need more.

This is why IARU provides satellite frequency coordination recommendations.  
Yes, these are only recommendations and participation is not required, unless 
required by a licensing administration.  Anyone truly interested in the success 
of a project will participate in the process - to keep the probability of 
success high and the probability of causing problems low.

Make sense?

I hope this helps.

73, art…..
W4ART/5  Houston TX







On 24-Oct-2011, at 11:52 AM, Robert McGwier wrote:

> The IARU is a consultative body, a place for the amateur societies to
> coordinate international activities where possible , not an international
> treaty organization with the ability to bind member country
> telecommunications law.  It has no real power.  We use it to do amateur
> satellite service frequency coordination and for all countries, groups, etc.
> that actually follow this procedure, it is helpful. Many do not.
> 
> The ITU maybe, but not the IARU, and the ITU hosts the World Adminstrative
> Radio Conference where treaties and the thousands of exceptions to any
> agreement are added and where any real power exists. WARC==important,
> IARU==sometimes useful.  Those would be the ones that are like a George W.
> Bush "signing note".  They sign but then say they won't obey.


  
http://afeller.us

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[amsat-bb] No AO-27 on last pass?

[Don Snider]

Is my rig blown or did AO-27 not show up on the last pass? At 1:26PM
Eastern.

 

De N3MK

FM27

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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)]

(Sarcasm alert..)

John,

> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "

Near useless?  The FM satellites worked very well for many to make
QSOs on the passes I worked on Saturday.  Yes, rapid-fire QSOs are
the order of the day, but you'll hear the same sort of rapid-fire QSOs
next weekend in the CQ WW SSB contest.  And. wait for it... that
contest doesn't use the satellites.  It's on HF!  Many thousands spend
that weekend making lots of QSOs, and giving out the same information
for each and every QSO.  Hams will travel to many different parts of
the world, just to be able to say "59 (CQ zone number)" for up to 48
hours on the radio.

As for the W2OY reference... let's see...  At 43, I'm not a kid.  Some
in a local radio club will call me a "kid", since I am a bit younger than
the median age of the club members.  I'm not a lid, so I guess I must
be a space cadet.  Do I get a certificate for that?  Thanks for clearing
that up for me, John.  I needed that dose of name-calling on a
Monday morning.:-\

> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.

Oh, no!  Someone is using an FM HT in their back yard to work a
satellite?  Heavens, no!  Report them to   ???

I've been doing satellite demonstrations and presentations out
here for almost 5 years.  Even after being at some of the same
hamfests for each of those years, there are still people who do
not understand that satellite operating does not require a huge
station and lots of $$$ to get started.  Yes, you can end up
spending a lot of money.  It's the same for those on HF, who
want to go from a 100W transceiver/dipole station to something
with Yagis, a tower, a transceiver with more bells and whistles,
maybe an amplifier...

> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

I wasn't on the satellites in the HEO days.  It seems like that you
would have also heard many of the same people on AO-40, day
in and day out.  Other than possibly having longer conversations
on HEO satellites than you would on LEO satellites, it may have
been similar to what you heard on the FM birds.  This is a bad
thing because.   ???

> Sure do (still) miss AO-40

I miss that, and the other HEO satellites.  But it's 2011, not 2001,
and AO-40 isn't here.  It might come back like AO-7 did, but it might
be like most ham satellites - once it goes quiet, it stays quiet.
Rather than listening to the silence from AO-40, I'll keep on using
the satellites that are operational. I'll also continue to make friends
as I log more QSOs, keep learning more about this corner of our
hobby, and - you've seen this in many of my -BB posts over the
past few years - having fun!

I'm looking forward to the presentations about the Fox project at the
upcoming AMSAT Symposium.  I'll keep going out to hamfests with an
AMSAT table, because it is fun to meet people and talk about this
corner of our hobby.  I'll look forward to other projects like FUNcube
and KiwiSat, hoping to have more satellites in whatever orbit to work.
Maybe that new Polish satellite I just read about with the FM/SSB
transponder will be just as much fun as AO-16 was a couple of years
ago.  And, yes, I would love to see P3E launched and operational.
I would be happy to adapt my portable all-mode station to work that,
along with the other satellites.

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: "Bato,Andras" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:28 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] There's no usable satellites

> Gentlemen,
>
> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>
> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
>
> There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.
>
> The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.
>
> F2IL is in my log about 300 times...
>
> Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans
> of IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
> handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far
> as I know.
>
> Satellite activity is seriously declining!
>
> gl de ha6nn
> Andras
>
Hi Andras,HA6NN

You are one of the only person that agree with me because if you like to
talk for more than 5 seconds giving only your call and locator into a lot
of QRM on a  FM satellites actually for a decent QSO there are no usable
satellites except AO-7 and VO-52 and this is why I pull for a HEO satellite
like P3-E but every time I did it I receive a lot of insult in AMSAT-BB

I spent a lot of money on satellites according to the long term plans of
IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which promised to provide us with HEO satellites
to communicate worldwide much better than in HF.

After AO40 died about then years ago my antennas for the S band and K
band are becaming rusty over the roof waiting for the future butwhat
future if we cannot experiment on worldwide satellite communications
using from VHF to the microwave bands ?

Yes you are right writing:"I had better to buy a well equipped HF
transceiver instead! "

73" de

i8CVS Domenico



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[amsat-bb] Re: Prospero Commanded Pass Today

[PE0SAT]

Hi Roger,

I have updated http://www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl/satellite/sat-history/prospero/
with my latest images and recordings. It is possible to get the complete
audio file. Send me a direct email and we can arrange something.

I had read that there is a 148.000 MHz transmitter on board prospero, and
I listend to that frquentie during the pass from 15:55 UTC. Maybe it is
interesting what is happening on that transmitter.

How do things go on your site regarding PROSPERO? any news?

73 Jan PE0SAT

On Mon, October 24, 2011 13:01, Roger Duthie wrote:
> AMSAT community -
>
> The Mullard team intend to attempt commanding to Prospero during the
following pass:
> (entries are: date; mag; start time; el; az; max el time; max el; az;
end time; end el; end az)
> 24 Oct
> 
>   7.7 16:54:1710  SSW 17:00:5458  WNW 
> 17:08:4010  N
>
>
> Any listening on the downlink, and feedback on your observations, would
be most appreciated.
> We may also try the later pass:
>
> 24 Oct
> 
>   9.3 18:42:5610  W   18:47:2517  NW  
> 18:52:1410  N
>
>
>
>  TIMES ARE IN BST (ie., UTC + 1) 
>
> - Roger
>
> PS., I hope the copy-paste from heavens-above works.
>
>
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-- 
With regards Jan H. van Gils
Internet web-page http://www.VGNet.NL/
Internet e-mail address JanVG[at]VGNet.NL





-- 
With regards Jan H. van Gils
Internet web-page http://www.VGNet.NL/
Internet e-mail address JanVG[at]VGNet.NL



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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Crumudgeons

[John Becker]

At 11:37 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
>> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
>> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
>> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
>
>The dark-side of Ham radio is the Curmudgeons who feel they must hold
>everyone back to their own style and their own narrow view of the hobby.

No Bob I'm in no way trying to hold anyone back just that like I said it seems
to be that same people pass after pass after pass.

How about giving someone else some air time? is that to much to ask?
There is only so much bandwidth as you of all people well know.





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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Robert McGwier]

The IARU is a consultative body, a place for the amateur societies to
coordinate international activities where possible , not an international
treaty organization with the ability to bind member country
telecommunications law.  It has no real power.  We use it to do amateur
satellite service frequency coordination and for all countries, groups, etc.
that actually follow this procedure, it is helpful. Many do not.

The ITU maybe, but not the IARU, and the ITU hosts the World Adminstrative
Radio Conference where treaties and the thousands of exceptions to any
agreement are added and where any real power exists. WARC==important,
 IARU==sometimes useful.  Those would be the ones that are like a George W.
Bush "signing note".  They sign but then say they won't obey.

Bob
N4HY



On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200
> "i8cvs"  wrote:
>
>
> > Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
> >
> > The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
> > Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
> > following :
>
> And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC
> regulations, because they are irrelevant.  If the FCC and ARRL want to turn
> amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great.  Don't
> pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
>
> The IARU trumps the FCC.
>
>
-- 
Bob McGwier
Facebook: N4HYBob
ARS: N4HY
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Tom Schaefer, NY4I]

I think the point is that FO-29 is no longer an option in that list.

Tom
Tom Schaefer, NY4I
n...@arrl.net
EL88pb 
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable  APRS: NY4I-15



On Oct 24, 2011, at 12:22 PM, B J wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Bato,Andras  wrote:
> 
>> Gentlemen,
>> 
>> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>> 
>> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
>> 
>> There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.
>> 
> 
> I've worked FO-29, AO-27, and AO-51 with my '847.
> 
> The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.
>> 
> 
> Sometimes that happens but, once in a while, I contact a station I've never
> worked before or reach someone in a new grid square.
> 
> I've been on satellites for just over 3  years and I've logged over 340
> different stations and over 270 grid squares, making contacts in 5 different
> countries in North America and Europe.  I did that using 7 different birds
> and the ISS FM repeater.
> 
> 
>> 
>> F2IL is in my log about 300 times...
>> 
>> Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans of
>> IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
>> handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far as
>> I know.
>> 
>> Satellite activity is seriously declining!
>> 
> 
> I've found that there's always something new I can try over a satellite.
> This year, I started on SSB and made contacts over AO-7 Mode B, FO-29, and
> VO-52.  I'd like to try AO-7 Mode A if I can get a proper antenna for it.
> 
> 
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Diane Bruce]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200
> "i8cvs"  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
> > 
> > The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
> > Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
> > following :
> 
> And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC 
> regulations, because they are irrelevant.  If the FCC and ARRL want to turn 
> amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great.  Don't 
> pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
> 
> The IARU trumps the FCC.

Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary
service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with
radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.


> 
> -- 
> Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 

- Diane Bruce VA3DB
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
  Why leave money to our children if we don't leave them the Earth?
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[amsat-bb] EL83 in AO-51

[Raidel Abreu Espinet]

Hello all,
I have been active almost by 2 months on AO-51 from Havana in EL83sc. Due
to my poor reception omni antenna I am working only the AO-51 in the
afternoon passes only with a elevation greater than 60 degrees over
Havana, also at the time it pass I usually am at work so only saturdays
and sundays I may be active. So if any of you need to confirm the grid
EL83 don't worry, just be patient, if you see a weekend pass with high
elevation angle over Havana I may be there. QSL card is 100% sure with out
SASE or IRC required only after you send a QSO confirmation e-mail to me
with your callsign, and date/time of QSO, also I would like to recieve
your QSL card too. Not sure if I will be able to work AO-27 or SO-50 as
those birds have less power out. But if I heard them some day I will try TX!!!
That's all, 73 and Hope contact your station soon.
Regards,
Raydel, CM2ESP
Havana, EL83sc


---
Este mensaje ha sido enviado mediante el servicio de correo electronico
que ofrece la Federacion de Radioaficionados de Cuba a sus miembros para
respaldar el cumplimiento de los objetivos de la organizacion y su politica 
informativa.
La persona que envia este correo asume el compromiso de usar el servicio a 
tales fines y
cumplir con las regulaciones establecidas.


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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Crumudgeons

[Michael Schulz]

On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:37 AM, Bob Bruninga wrote:

>> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
>> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
>> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> 
> The dark-side of Ham radio is the Curmudgeons who feel they must hold
> everyone back to their own style and their own narrow view of the hobby.
> 
> But anyone with any sense of the golden rule understands that
> accomplishments in an all volunteer endeavor are never made by bashing, or
> trying to change what other people do.

Well said .. or also in other words: What learn you must share, what you know 
you must teach.

73 Mike K5TRI
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[amsat-bb] Re: Antennas For AO-7 Mode A

[George Henry]

A loop for 10 meters is 8 feet (app. 2.4 meters) on each side - totally 
impractical for hand-held use.  I have had some success using a 10 meter mobile 
whip on a mag mount on the car, and even better luck using 2 mobile whips in a 
horizontal dipole configuration at the top of a 10-foot (3M) mast, rotated by 
hand for the best signal.

If you wanted to get really creative, you could use 4 whips, crossed at 90 
degrees, and add a proper phasing cable between them to make a turnstile, but 
that's a lot of stuff to lug around with you, and getting really far from your 
objective of hand-held.

Otherwise, your only option for something remotely hand-holdable for HF is some 
type of active antenna, such as the MFJ-1020C.



George, KA3HSW




- Original Message 
> From: B J 
> To: amsat-bb 
> Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 11:07:36 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Antennas For AO-7 Mode A
> 
> I'm looking for a suitable antenna that I can use to operate over AO-7  in
> mode A .  The main requirement that it be hand-held.
> 
> I've  looked on the Internet and, so far, I haven't found any  off-the-shelf
> antennas.  I did, however, find several websites that have  instructions for
> home-brew designs but none were specifically for mode  A.
> 
> One possibility that occurred to me is to combine 2 different types,  such as
> an eggbeater for 2 m and a hand-held HF loop for 10 m.  One  drawback that I
> see for this arrangement is that it might be too big or too  heavy for it to
> be practical as a hand-held unit.
> 
> Does anyone know of  a commercially available mode A antenna suitable for
> hand-held operation or  know of a home-brew design for one?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 73s
> 
> Bernhard  VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
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[amsat-bb] Re: Prospero Commanded Pass Today

[Jan H. van Gils]

Hi Roger,

I have updated http://www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl/satellite/sat-history/prospero/
with my latest images and recordings. It is possible to get the complete
audio file. Send me a direct email and we can arrange something.

I had read that there is a 148.000 MHz transmitter on board prospero, and
I listend to that frquentie during the pass from 15:55 UTC. Maybe it is
interesting what is happening on that transmitter.

How do things go on your site regarding PROSPERO? any news?

73 Jan PE0SAT

On Mon, October 24, 2011 13:01, Roger Duthie wrote:
> AMSAT community -
>
> The Mullard team intend to attempt commanding to Prospero during the
> following pass:
> (entries are: date; mag; start time; el; az; max el time; max el; az;
> end time; end el; end az)
> 24 Oct
> 
>   7.7 16:54:1710  SSW 17:00:5458  WNW 
> 17:08:4010  N
>
>
> Any listening on the downlink, and feedback on your observations, would
> be most appreciated.
> We may also try the later pass:
>
> 24 Oct
> 
>   9.3 18:42:5610  W   18:47:2517  NW  
> 18:52:1410  N
>
>
>
>  TIMES ARE IN BST (ie., UTC + 1) 
>
> - Roger
>
> PS., I hope the copy-paste from heavens-above works.
>
>
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>


-- 
With regards Jan H. van Gils
Internet web-page http://www.VGNet.NL/
Internet e-mail address JanVG[at]VGNet.NL



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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Michael Schulz]

On Oct 24, 2011, at 10:58 AM, Thomas Schaefer wrote:

> I do not understand the purpose to belittle people that want to use the 
> satellite on an HT. I can use my 9100, but it is a nice intro to be in the 
> yard or a beach with an HT and an Arrow antenna. What purpose does it serve 
> to take that away from someone if it does not fit your idea of what operating 
> should be? 
> 
> Tom NY4I

Let me put another quote out there:

Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds discuss events, small minds discuss 
personalities.–Eleanor Roosevelt

Or in other words, some people need to re-assure their self worth by finding 
something/somebody as perceived by themselves
of lower value/quality than themselves to raise their own idea or reflection of 
themselves. It is easier to do so by looking towards
other people than having great ideas.

How dare one use a satellite with an HT when I spent thousands of dollars on an 
Oscar station? Yeah ok, the outcome is the same
in terms of communication achieved, but come on ... I spent thousands of 
dollars on errrm .. now unnecessary equipment because
the kids, lids and space cadets run circles around me with their HTs.

This is just getting more sad as we progress here. And the direction these 
threads now seem to take can barely be classified as 
progress.

73 Mike K5TRI
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[B J]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Bato,Andras  wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>
> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
>
> There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.
>

I've worked FO-29, AO-27, and AO-51 with my '847.

The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.
>

Sometimes that happens but, once in a while, I contact a station I've never
worked before or reach someone in a new grid square.

I've been on satellites for just over 3  years and I've logged over 340
different stations and over 270 grid squares, making contacts in 5 different
countries in North America and Europe.  I did that using 7 different birds
and the ISS FM repeater.


>
> F2IL is in my log about 300 times...
>
> Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans of
> IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
> handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far as
> I know.
>
> Satellite activity is seriously declining!
>

I've found that there's always something new I can try over a satellite.
This year, I started on SSB and made contacts over AO-7 Mode B, FO-29, and
VO-52.  I'd like to try AO-7 Mode A if I can get a proper antenna for it.


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[amsat-bb] AMSAT Crumudgeons

[Bob Bruninga]

> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

The dark-side of Ham radio is the Curmudgeons who feel they must hold
everyone back to their own style and their own narrow view of the hobby.

But anyone with any sense of the golden rule understands that
accomplishments in an all volunteer endeavor are never made by bashing, or
trying to change what other people do.

Progress is made when the Curmudgeons get out of the way, and let those with
ideas or interests move forward.  There simply is no value (to others) in
trying to bash others or attempt to change their interests.

Everyone learns from Ham radio.  And the best way to learn is by hands on
experience and  learning it themselves.  What the Curmudgeons learned in
their 40+ years of ham radio may in fact be what the newer members need to
learn.  But just like the Curmudgeons had to learn it on their own, the
people with other ideas may have to learn their own lessons as well.

I expect that what the current players learn will be far different from what
the Curmudgeons learned, because face it, the world and technology has
changed in 40 years and will not have the same lessons or conclusions.

Nobody is right or wrong.  Just find something in Ham radio and pursue it.
And hope that the Curmudgeons stay out of the way.  They contribute little
towards progress but try to hold everyone back.

One can elmer, steer and provide some guidance to try to give some
direction, but bashing and negativism only inhibits progress along the
hobby.

Just my 2 cents.  Learned 40 years ago from W4RI, Paul Rinaldo in trying to
herd all the cats in the AMRAD club as they developed packet radio.

Bob, Wb4APR




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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:47:00 -0500
John Becker  wrote:

> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.

Standing in your back yard with an FM handie and a homebrew antenna is a great 
way to communicate, and I'd recommend it to anyone.  It takes skill to build a 
decent aerial, build a diplexer, set it all up and work out where to point.  
These are skills that anyone can learn, if they choose to.  Where's the skill 
in the "armchair copy" computer-controlled stuff?  You buy some aerials, buy 
the brackets, buy a rotator, buy a CAT cable, buy some proprietary software to 
drive it, and then plug it together.  If you can wave a credit card and click 
through the install wizard, you're on the air.

> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

Yup, it's nice being able to catch up with friends in another country, quickly 
and easily.

> Sure do (still) miss AO-40

If you want to sit in front of your computer and have it steer the aerial and 
do all the tuning, then that's great.  You could get the same effect by using 
Skype.

I honestly cannot see the attraction in HEO satellites, and I *am* old enough 
to have experienced them when they were working.  Maybe there's something 
subtle I'm missing, I don't know.  I just don't get it.

-- 
Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[B J]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:22 PM, B J  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Bato,Andras  wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>>
>> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
>>
>> There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.
>>
>
> I've worked FO-29, AO-27, and AO-51 with my '847.
>
> The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.
>>
>
> Sometimes that happens but, once in a while, I contact a station I've never
> worked before or reach someone in a new grid square.
>
> I've been on satellites for just over 3  years and I've logged over 340
> different stations and over 270 grid squares, making contacts in 5 different
> countries in North America and Europe.  I did that using 7 different birds
> and the ISS FM repeater.
>
>
>>
>> F2IL is in my log about 300 times...
>>
>> Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans of
>> IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
>> handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far
>> as I know.
>>
>> Satellite activity is seriously declining!
>>
>
> I've found that there's always something new I can try over a satellite.
> This year, I started on SSB and made contacts over AO-7 Mode B, FO-29, and
> VO-52.  I'd like to try AO-7 Mode A if I can get a proper antenna for it.
>
> 
>
>
I forgot to add my name and callsign:

Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Jeff Welsh]

Same here. If I hear a portable station in the FM pileup, most likely that's
the one I'll want to work before the others! Working the LEO portable and
handheld is quite a handful, literally and I admire that!

There has been quite alot of negative interaction as of late on this email
reflector that I simply do not understand.
Amateur Radio is what you make of it, whether it be operating the world QRP
or working FM satellites portable, do what interests you in the hobby and do
it well!. All this uneccessary negativity is getting quite old.
Instead of complaining in a public forum about which operator did what, etc,
how about elmer them and help them become a better operator. Who knows, you
may learn something in the process.

--jeff
N3QO

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Thomas Schaefer  wrote:

> I do not understand the purpose to belittle people that want to use the
> satellite on an HT. I can use my 9100, but it is a nice intro to be in the
> yard or a beach with an HT and an Arrow antenna. What purpose does it serve
> to take that away from someone if it does not fit your idea of what
> operating should be?
>
> Tom NY4I
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, John Becker wrote:
>
> > I got to agree with you.
> >
> > The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the
> > "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> > Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> > Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> > Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> >
> > Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> >
> > John, W0JAB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
> >> Gentlemen,
> >>
> >> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
> >>
> >> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> >
> > ___
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200
"i8cvs"  wrote:


> Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
> 
> The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
> Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
> following :

And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC 
regulations, because they are irrelevant.  If the FCC and ARRL want to turn 
amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great.  Don't pollute 
*my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.

The IARU trumps the FCC.

-- 
Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ 
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

Hi,

Expect a ton of information to be presented at Symposium. I can assure you the 
Fox team is working very hard on the project design and hardware now, papers 
and presentations for Symposium, and also preparing proposals for low-cost 
launch opportunities that are due with a few weeks.

73, Drew KO4MA


-Original Message-
>From: Thomas Schaefer 
>Sent: Oct 24, 2011 11:56 AM
>To: "Bato,Andras" 
>Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites
>
>I suspended my project to install a satellite beam and rotor because of the 
>state of affairs. I guess I can donate more money but it is hard when the web 
>pages for the current projects do not seem to be updated as much (yes, I 
>know…volunteers). Maybe someone can tell me…
>
>Are there updated, realistic timeframes posted on a website? 
>Is there a fund raising indicate to tell how close of far AMSAT is from their 
>goal to launch the next satellite.?
>
>It appears people want to help.
>
>Case in point…the Project Fox website which was updated last on August 2011 
>states under the following under Project Status Updates: Watch this space as 
>we progress. That's it. Not even the status updates that were given at Dayton.
>
>Is there no progress? If the project is simply waiting until enough seed money 
>is collected, then would it be possible to show that target? Maybe indicate 
>what has been collected this month, last month, and this year? How far do we 
>have to go? What is the next milestone and what is it waiting upon to 
>start/finish.
>
>I did see a number $800 on the logo where one can donate. Is that how much has 
>been collected?
>
>Non-professional fund raising has ben going on for a long time. Having basic 
>feedback mechanisms encourages people to give. If they see how their 
>contribution will add to a milestone being started/finished, it helps. I know 
>it takes time and resources to do this, but ultimately, the fund raising is a 
>big part I presume.
>
>Now if I am wrong and the project is waiting for a grant or a free rocket ride 
>to either bother, then let's see that status.
>
>
>Note I read the Project Fox presentation given at Dayton and it did not 
>mention funding targets except to state the obvious that launch costs have 
>gone up. We need real numbers and to see how far it will take to get there. I 
>think more people can rally around the project with some goals in mind.
>
>Regards,
>




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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Doug Dietz]

Amen  WD8Z
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, John Becker wrote:

> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> 
> Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> 
> John, W0JAB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
>> Gentlemen,
>> 
>> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>> 
>> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> 
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> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[George Henry]

Since the AO-27 website is down at this time, your best bet for tracking the 
operating schedule is the Java AO-27 schedule lister that my son wrote for me.  
You can download it at .  
Make sure you download the current data files (EPOCH.TXT and TOPR.TXT) from the 
site also, and drop them into whatever folder you unzip the scheduler files to 
(replace the files included in the ZIP).  It's always accurate to within 2 
minutes of the actual operating schedule (due to drift in the satellite's 
clock).



George, KA3HSW




- Original Message 
> From: Richard Grabotin 
> To: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" 
> Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 11:37:50 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27/SO-50
> 
> I am new to satellites as of this weekend. I have worked AO-51 three times 
> with  
>much success. SO-50 I can hear off and on, but I am having trouble raising it. 
> 
>As for AO-27, I had a nice daytime direct overhead pass and heard nothing. I 
>am  
>using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio deluxe.  
>Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 meter 
>antenna.  
>The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing cables still have 
> 
>not arrived from the manufacturer.  
>
> 
> My questions are, is AO-27  difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
>why I could not raise or hear  it?
> 
> As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is  
> controlling 
>the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and  corrected 
>for 
>Doppler. This still did not seem to help. 
>
> 
> 
> Richard
> K7LWV
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Thomas Schaefer]

I do not understand the purpose to belittle people that want to use the 
satellite on an HT. I can use my 9100, but it is a nice intro to be in the yard 
or a beach with an HT and an Arrow antenna. What purpose does it serve to take 
that away from someone if it does not fit your idea of what operating should 
be? 

Tom NY4I


On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, John Becker wrote:

> I got to agree with you.
> 
> The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
> "using them famous words of the late W2OY"
> Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
> Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
> Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.
> 
> Sure do (still) miss AO-40
> 
> John, W0JAB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
>> Gentlemen,
>> 
>> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>> 
>> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> 
> ___
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[Thomas Schaefer]

I suspended my project to install a satellite beam and rotor because of the 
state of affairs. I guess I can donate more money but it is hard when the web 
pages for the current projects do not seem to be updated as much (yes, I 
know…volunteers). Maybe someone can tell me…

Are there updated, realistic timeframes posted on a website? 
Is there a fund raising indicate to tell how close of far AMSAT is from their 
goal to launch the next satellite.?

It appears people want to help.

Case in point…the Project Fox website which was updated last on August 2011 
states under the following under Project Status Updates: Watch this space as we 
progress. That's it. Not even the status updates that were given at Dayton.

Is there no progress? If the project is simply waiting until enough seed money 
is collected, then would it be possible to show that target? Maybe indicate 
what has been collected this month, last month, and this year? How far do we 
have to go? What is the next milestone and what is it waiting upon to 
start/finish.

I did see a number $800 on the logo where one can donate. Is that how much has 
been collected?

Non-professional fund raising has ben going on for a long time. Having basic 
feedback mechanisms encourages people to give. If they see how their 
contribution will add to a milestone being started/finished, it helps. I know 
it takes time and resources to do this, but ultimately, the fund raising is a 
big part I presume.

Now if I am wrong and the project is waiting for a grant or a free rocket ride 
to either bother, then let's see that status.


Note I read the Project Fox presentation given at Dayton and it did not mention 
funding targets except to state the obvious that launch costs have gone up. We 
need real numbers and to see how far it will take to get there. I think more 
people can rally around the project with some goals in mind.

Regards,

Tom Schaefer, NY4I
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Bato,Andras wrote:

> Gentlemen,
> 
> I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
> 
> I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!
> 
> There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.
> 
> The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.
> 
> F2IL is in my log about 300 times...
> 
> Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans of 
> IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
> handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far as I 
> know.
> 
> Satellite activity is seriously declining!
> 
> gl de ha6nn
> Andras
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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[amsat-bb] Re: There's no usable satellites

[John Becker]

I got to agree with you.

The FM sat's in my option is near useless with all the 
"using them famous words of the late W2OY"
Just way to many "kids, lids and space cadets "
Standing in their back yard on a FM HT.
Pass after pass it seems to always to be the same people.

Sure do (still) miss AO-40

John, W0JAB







At 10:28 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>
>I have spent too much money on an FT-847!
>
>I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!

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[amsat-bb] There's no usable satellites

[Bato,Andras]

Gentlemen,

I have spent too much money on an FT-847!

I had better to buy a well equipped HF transceiver instead!

There is practically no usable satellites -except for AO-7 and VO-52.

The problem is that you can find always the same stations on them.

F2IL is in my log about 300 times...

Spending money on FM satellites were made according to long term plans 
of IARU, ARRL and AMSAT which had been a dream of
handling emergency traffic using hand-held equipment and antenna -as far 
as I know.


Satellite activity is seriously declining!

gl de ha6nn
Andras







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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: "Andre" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:25 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people


> Op 24-10-2011 13:05, i8cvs schreef:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Kevin Deane"
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people
> >> As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant
> >> posts, I want to remind everyone that this is  a HOBBY!
> >>
> >> Amateur Radio.
> >>
> >> Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
> >>
> >> Kevin
> >> KF7MYK

> > Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
> >
> > The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
> > Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
> > following :
> >
> > ARTICLE Nr1
> >
> > 3.34  Amateur Service:
> >A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training
,
> >intercommunication and technical investigations carried out
by
> >amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in
radio
> >technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary
> >interest.
> >
> > 3.35 Amateur Satellite Service:
> >   A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth
> >   satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur
service.
> >
> > As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite
> > Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but  as a "SERVICE" for
> > self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations
> > activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio
> > frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge
> > that one of us  get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost
> > for the Community.
> >
> > 73" de
> >
> > i8CVS Domenico
> > ___
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> >
> The problem with these definitions is that the ITU defines all radio
> users as services, even CB falls under land mobile services.
> Guess CB is not a hobby too.
>
> 73 Andre PE1RDW

Hi Andre, PE1RDW

I don't have at hand the ITU definitions for "land mobile services" but
this services are only for intercommunication and not for the purposes
of self-training ,and technical investigations in radio technique as is
the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite Service.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Clayton Coleman W5PFG]

Kevin,

I'm afraid you have used improper terminology and upset the demigods
of the satellite community.

Some relevant definitions from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
- Leisure (n): time free from work or duties
- Hobby (n): a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in
especially for relaxation
- Amateur (n): one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport
as a pastime rather than as a profession

This quote sums up my thoughts about this unfortunate series of email threads:

"We have met the enemy and they is us." - Pogo Cartoon, Walt Kelly

73
Clayton
W5PFG

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Kevin Deane  wrote:
>
> As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant 
> posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
>
> Amateur Radio.
>
> Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
>
> Kevin
> KF7MYK
>
>
>
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>
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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[Dominic Hawken]

On the subject of mast-mounted preamps, is there a good second-hand 
recommendation? I've seen some very expensive new ones and looked at 
building from scratch - just wondering if there's anything old but good 
on the market that I should be keeping an eye out for?


Thanks,

Dominic G6NQO.

On 24/10/2011 15:00, Mark L. Hammond wrote:

Good points from Steve (and other).

***Don't forget the DREADFUL TS-2000 birdie on the AO-27 and SO-50
downlinks.   :(  It is the only thing I hate about the radio

With a good mast-mounted preamp (didn't see you note any??) and some
frequency adjusting (up/down to minimize the birdie's effect), and
even try FM-N on receive---you can make some contacts.  But it's
annoying as all get out.   And it makes it tough.  Did I say that I
HATE that birdie?  ;)

Basically, I flame up the old TS-790A when I want to work these
two---and that's a real shame on the TS-2000.

You might give SatPC32 a shot--it lets you juggle back and forth for
both SO-50 tones (one to key it up, another to work through it).  It
makes it just a mouse click or two...quite nice.

73,

Mark N8MH

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Stephen  E. Belter  wrote:

Richard,

You probably didn't hear AO-27 because it was off on the passes you tried to 
work.  Was the satellite over Canada or was it moving from north to south?

AO-27 isn't difficult to work, except that it is *very* popular (can be hard to 
get a word in edgewise) and is on a timer.  In general, AO-27 is operational 
over the United States for a period of seven minutes in the afternoon passes 
when the satellite is traveling from south to north.

Before transmitting, make sure you can hear the satellite.  If you don't hear 
it, it isn't turned on.  When AO-27 is on and passing over the middle of the 
US, it will sound like a DX pile-up.  Since you are in Oregon, your least 
crowded passes will be when AO-27 is off the west coast over the Pacific Ocean. 
 (I've had relaxed conversations on AO-27 from Indiana when it is over the 
Atlantic Ocean.)

The design/assigned frequency for SO-50 is 436.800, but I've been finding it 
between 436.791 to 436.794 (before Doppler correction).  SO-50 also requires 
that you transmit a 67 Hz subaudible (CTSS or PL) tone.  The SO-50 transmitter 
is on a ten minute timer that is reset by sending a 74 Hz tone, but don't worry 
about it until you become familiar with the satellite.  Let other stations 
worry about resetting the timer.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS, has some great information for hams just getting started 
on satellites.  You can find it at www.work-sat.org .

73, Steve N9IP
--
Steve Belter, Indiana Dataline Corp
427 N 6th Street, Suite C
Lafayette, IN 47901-2211
Tel: (765) 269-8521
www.indiana-dataline.net


-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf 
Of Richard Grabotin
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 12:38 AM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27/SO-50

I am new to satellites as of this weekend. I have worked AO-51 three times with 
much success. SO-50 I can hear off and on, but I am having trouble raising it. 
As for AO-27, I had a nice daytime direct overhead pass and heard nothing. I am 
using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio deluxe. 
Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 meter 
antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing cables 
still have not arrived from the manufacturer.

My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
why I could not raise or hear it?

As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is controlling 
the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and corrected for 
Doppler. This still did not seem to help.


Richard
K7LWV


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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[Mark L. Hammond]

Good points from Steve (and other).

***Don't forget the DREADFUL TS-2000 birdie on the AO-27 and SO-50
downlinks.   :(  It is the only thing I hate about the radio

With a good mast-mounted preamp (didn't see you note any??) and some
frequency adjusting (up/down to minimize the birdie's effect), and
even try FM-N on receive---you can make some contacts.  But it's
annoying as all get out.   And it makes it tough.  Did I say that I
HATE that birdie?  ;)

Basically, I flame up the old TS-790A when I want to work these
two---and that's a real shame on the TS-2000.

You might give SatPC32 a shot--it lets you juggle back and forth for
both SO-50 tones (one to key it up, another to work through it).  It
makes it just a mouse click or two...quite nice.

73,

Mark N8MH

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Stephen  E. Belter  wrote:
> Richard,
>
> You probably didn't hear AO-27 because it was off on the passes you tried to 
> work.  Was the satellite over Canada or was it moving from north to south?
>
> AO-27 isn't difficult to work, except that it is *very* popular (can be hard 
> to get a word in edgewise) and is on a timer.  In general, AO-27 is 
> operational over the United States for a period of seven minutes in the 
> afternoon passes when the satellite is traveling from south to north.
>
> Before transmitting, make sure you can hear the satellite.  If you don't hear 
> it, it isn't turned on.  When AO-27 is on and passing over the middle of the 
> US, it will sound like a DX pile-up.  Since you are in Oregon, your least 
> crowded passes will be when AO-27 is off the west coast over the Pacific 
> Ocean.  (I've had relaxed conversations on AO-27 from Indiana when it is over 
> the Atlantic Ocean.)
>
> The design/assigned frequency for SO-50 is 436.800, but I've been finding it 
> between 436.791 to 436.794 (before Doppler correction).  SO-50 also requires 
> that you transmit a 67 Hz subaudible (CTSS or PL) tone.  The SO-50 
> transmitter is on a ten minute timer that is reset by sending a 74 Hz tone, 
> but don't worry about it until you become familiar with the satellite.  Let 
> other stations worry about resetting the timer.
>
> Clint Bradford, K6LCS, has some great information for hams just getting 
> started on satellites.  You can find it at www.work-sat.org .
>
> 73, Steve N9IP
> --
> Steve Belter, Indiana Dataline Corp
> 427 N 6th Street, Suite C
> Lafayette, IN 47901-2211
> Tel: (765) 269-8521
> www.indiana-dataline.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On 
> Behalf Of Richard Grabotin
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 12:38 AM
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27/SO-50
>
> I am new to satellites as of this weekend. I have worked AO-51 three times 
> with much success. SO-50 I can hear off and on, but I am having trouble 
> raising it. As for AO-27, I had a nice daytime direct overhead pass and heard 
> nothing. I am using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham 
> radio deluxe. Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 
> 2 meter antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing 
> cables still have not arrived from the manufacturer.
>
> My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
> why I could not raise or hear it?
>
> As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is 
> controlling the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and 
> corrected for Doppler. This still did not seem to help.
>
>
> Richard
> K7LWV
>
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[Dominic Hawken]

On 24/10/2011 14:31, David Palmer KB5WIA wrote:

Hi Richard,


. I am using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio 
deluxe. Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 meter 
antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing cables 
still have not arrived from the manufacturer.


Good setup!



My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
why I could not raise or hear it?


Yes, it's on a schedule -- check the status page on www.amsat.org to
see when it comes on and off. It comes on at mid-latitudes by a timer,
so for an overhead pass in your area you *should* have heard it 
other things to check would be that the keps are current, and that
there weren't any glitches during that particular pass (ie. maybe
radios briefly stopped tuning).  Try again, it's a nice loud sat.



As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is controlling 
the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and corrected for 
Doppler. This still did not seem to help.


I've found SO-50 about 5kHz-8kHz down, so listen down a little.
Remember the tone on the uplink too.  Also, I've seen quite a few
posts that the TS-2000 has a birdie right at the high end of SO-50's
downlink, so you may have a better chance hearing it later in the pass
as doppler moves the downlink away from the birdie.


I have a virtually identical set up but with a FT-847 radio. I get AO-27 
but with HRD I do find I have to tune about to get the receive - 5 to 
10Khz. Wierdly I find it _much_ easier to work the SSB sats with the set 
up than I do the FM ones - sounds like you have the same issue.


Dominic G6NQO

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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[Stephen E. Belter]

Richard,

You probably didn't hear AO-27 because it was off on the passes you tried to 
work.  Was the satellite over Canada or was it moving from north to south?

AO-27 isn't difficult to work, except that it is *very* popular (can be hard to 
get a word in edgewise) and is on a timer.  In general, AO-27 is operational 
over the United States for a period of seven minutes in the afternoon passes 
when the satellite is traveling from south to north.   

Before transmitting, make sure you can hear the satellite.  If you don't hear 
it, it isn't turned on.  When AO-27 is on and passing over the middle of the 
US, it will sound like a DX pile-up.  Since you are in Oregon, your least 
crowded passes will be when AO-27 is off the west coast over the Pacific Ocean. 
 (I've had relaxed conversations on AO-27 from Indiana when it is over the 
Atlantic Ocean.)

The design/assigned frequency for SO-50 is 436.800, but I've been finding it 
between 436.791 to 436.794 (before Doppler correction).  SO-50 also requires 
that you transmit a 67 Hz subaudible (CTSS or PL) tone.  The SO-50 transmitter 
is on a ten minute timer that is reset by sending a 74 Hz tone, but don't worry 
about it until you become familiar with the satellite.  Let other stations 
worry about resetting the timer.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS, has some great information for hams just getting started 
on satellites.  You can find it at www.work-sat.org .

73, Steve N9IP
--
Steve Belter, Indiana Dataline Corp
427 N 6th Street, Suite C
Lafayette, IN 47901-2211
Tel: (765) 269-8521
www.indiana-dataline.net


-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf 
Of Richard Grabotin
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 12:38 AM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27/SO-50

I am new to satellites as of this weekend. I have worked AO-51 three times with 
much success. SO-50 I can hear off and on, but I am having trouble raising it. 
As for AO-27, I had a nice daytime direct overhead pass and heard nothing. I am 
using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio deluxe. 
Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 meter 
antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing cables 
still have not arrived from the manufacturer.  

My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
why I could not raise or hear it?

As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is controlling 
the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and corrected for 
Doppler. This still did not seem to help. 


Richard
K7LWV


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[amsat-bb] Re: AO-27/SO-50

[David Palmer KB5WIA]

Hi Richard,

>. I am using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio 
>deluxe. Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 
>meter antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing 
>cables still have not arrived from the manufacturer.

Good setup!

>
> My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
> why I could not raise or hear it?

Yes, it's on a schedule -- check the status page on www.amsat.org to
see when it comes on and off. It comes on at mid-latitudes by a timer,
so for an overhead pass in your area you *should* have heard it 
other things to check would be that the keps are current, and that
there weren't any glitches during that particular pass (ie. maybe
radios briefly stopped tuning).  Try again, it's a nice loud sat.

>
> As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is 
> controlling the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and 
> corrected for Doppler. This still did not seem to help.

I've found SO-50 about 5kHz-8kHz down, so listen down a little.
Remember the tone on the uplink too.  Also, I've seen quite a few
posts that the TS-2000 has a birdie right at the high end of SO-50's
downlink, so you may have a better chance hearing it later in the pass
as doppler moves the downlink away from the birdie.

>
>
> Richard
> K7LWV

Good luck on the sats

73 de Dave KB5WIA

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[amsat-bb] Re: Sunday US ARISSAT Pass

[David Palmer KB5WIA]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Jeff Welsh  wrote:
> Did anyone notice the apparent reset of ARISSAT yesterday during it's
> mid-afternoon US pass?
>
> I was in the process of setting up for telemetry reception when the bird
> seemed to drop out completely and come back online about 1-2 minutes later.
>
> Just curious if it is a schedule rest period for the transmitters.
>
> --jeff
> N3QO

I noticed the same thing calling CQ on the transponder.  ARISSAT has a
low-power mode (also called a low duty cycle mode) where it shuts off
for 2 minutes and then comes on for 40 seconds, then off again.  This
might be the cause.

73!  Dave KB5WIA
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[amsat-bb] Sunday US ARISSAT Pass

[Jeff Welsh]

Did anyone notice the apparent reset of ARISSAT yesterday during it's
mid-afternoon US pass?

I was in the process of setting up for telemetry reception when the bird
seemed to drop out completely and come back online about 1-2 minutes later.

Just curious if it is a schedule rest period for the transmitters.

--jeff
N3QO
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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[Andre]

Op 24-10-2011 13:05, i8cvs schreef:

- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Deane"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people

As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant
posts, I want to remind everyone that this is  a HOBBY!

Amateur Radio.

Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.

Kevin
KF7MYK

Hi Kevin, KF7MYK

The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
following :

ARTICLE Nr1

3.34  Amateur Service:
   A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training ,
   intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by
   amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in radio
   technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary
   interest.

3.35 Amateur Satellite Service:
  A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth
  satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite
Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but  as a "SERVICE" for
self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations
activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio
frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge
that one of us  get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost
for the Community.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico
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The problem with these definitions is that the ITU defines all radio 
users as services, even CB falls under land mobile services.

Guess CB is not a hobby too.

73 Andre PE1RDW
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[amsat-bb] Re: Why should we support AMSAT?

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: "Daniel Schultz" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Why should we support AMSAT?

< SNIP>
>
> I also remember how valuable my amateur radio background was to me when
> I was an engineering student, when some of my classmates couldn't even
> read the color bands on a resistor and had no idea how the theory that we
> were studying was applied to real world applications.
>
> Dan
>
Hi Dan, N8FGV

I also remember how valuable my amateur radio background was to me
during the very hard selection for my engineering  job for the Electrical
and Electronic maintenance into a plant in Italy 50% with the U.S.Steel 
in Pittsburgh, PA.

I hold certain that my expertise in electrical and electronic engineering
gained with the job over the years was made easier in virtue of my previous
technical interest in the amateur radio particularly studying and building
for many years real circuits that were working as described into the
ARRL Handbook.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

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[amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Deane" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people
>
> As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant
> posts, I want to remind everyone that this is  a HOBBY!
>
> Amateur Radio.
>
> Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
>
> Kevin
> KF7MYK

Hi Kevin, KF7MYK

The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio
Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the
following :

ARTICLE Nr1

3.34  Amateur Service:
  A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training ,
  intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by
  amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in radio
  technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary
  interest.

3.35 Amateur Satellite Service:
 A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth 
 satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite
Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but  as a "SERVICE" for
self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations
activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio
frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge
that one of us  get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost
for the Community.
  
73" de

i8CVS Domenico
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[amsat-bb] Prospero Commanded Pass Today

[Roger Duthie]

AMSAT community -

The Mullard team intend to attempt commanding to Prospero during the 
following pass:
(entries are: date; mag; start time; el; az; max el time; max el; az; 
end time; end el; end az)
24 Oct 
 
	7.7 	16:54:17 	10 	SSW 	17:00:54 	58 	WNW 	17:08:40 	10 	N



Any listening on the downlink, and feedback on your observations, would 
be most appreciated. 
We may also try the later pass:


24 Oct 
 
	9.3 	18:42:56 	10 	W 	18:47:25 	17 	NW 	18:52:14 	10 	N




 TIMES ARE IN BST (ie., UTC + 1) 

- Roger

PS., I hope the copy-paste from heavens-above works.


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[amsat-bb] AO-27/SO-50

[Richard Grabotin]

I am new to satellites as of this weekend. I have worked AO-51 three times with 
much success. SO-50 I can hear off and on, but I am having trouble raising it. 
As for AO-27, I had a nice daytime direct overhead pass and heard nothing. I am 
using a yeasu g-5500 rotator with the AMSAT controller and ham radio deluxe. 
Kenwood ts-2000 for the rig and a 8 element 440 and a 4 element 2 meter 
antenna. The antennas are currently linear polarized since my phasing cables 
still have not arrived from the manufacturer.  

My questions are, is AO-27 difficult to work? Is it on a schedule? Any ideas 
why I could not raise or hear it?

As for SO-50: Should I be listening 5khz down? Ham radio deluxe is controlling 
the radio frequencies and I made a custom entry for 5khz down and corrected for 
Doppler. This still did not seem to help. 


Richard
K7LWV


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[amsat-bb] Re: Why should we support AMSAT?

[R Oler]

> 
> Dan Schultz N8FGV
> 


Sorry neither the quote from JFK (no matter how stirring it is) nor the notion 
of AMSAT paring up with the folks at universities who make the bleep sats makes 
much sense to the debate on Amateur radio satellites.

We did go to the Moon because it was hard, we went we did it and then we 
stopped very fast...why?  Other then it was hard there was no reason to keep on 
doing it.  There is no reason or reasons today other then really made up ones 
(the Chinese are going, national greatness, etc).  Watch how silent the 
American people were when Constellation was cancelled...no one cared. (unless 
you worked in the space business) 

As for Universities paring with the new digital transponder.  Good luck.  
Ignoring the actual results of Suitsat 2...the reality is that most cubesats 
dont have the power to do the transponder AND anything else...and second 
building the entire package "from data sheets" is a lot about what the project 
is done for.  

Debates like this (and its spin offs) occur whenever morale is low.  Robert G. 
Oler WB5MZO life member AMSAT ARRL NARS
  
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[amsat-bb] Re: Why should we support AMSAT?

[R Oler]

Dan...so have amateurs...see Stensat.  And "suitsat 1 and 2" were not that 
great success either...  Sorry I dont agree with much of that statement Robert 
G. Oler WB5MZO Life member AMSAT ARRL NARS
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:13:22 -0400
> From: n8...@usa.net
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Why should we support AMSAT?
> 
> Stefan,
> 
> I wasn't trying to diminish the students, but I have worked with a student
> satellite project where they literally took a chip maker's application note
> for a baby monitor or cordless telephone transmitter and made a satellite
> transmitter out of it, and it didn't work on orbit.
> 
> I appreciate the students energy and enthusiasm, but in some cases they do
> have much to learn about RF. I also remember how valuable my amateur radio
> background was to me when I was an engineering student, when some of my
> classmates couldn't even read the color bands on a resistor and had no idea
> how the theory that we were studying was applied to real world applications.
> 
> I am also concerned about whether the students are receiving the right kind of
> experience to prepare them for the aerospace industry. They get to make all
> the design decisions and direct their entire project, but when they are hired
> by Lockheed Martin or some other large aerospace company they will be doing
> mind numbing paperwork and will have little power to make engineering
> decisions, particularly on government contracts. I also know about this from
> years of experience. They also are not learning the political skills that they
> will need to have to survive in the corporate world, where career success
> depends more on how you suck up to authority than on your ability to design or
> build anything.
> 
> I am not diminishing the students, I love the students and want them to
> succeed better than I did, but I have much experience, not all of it positive,
> that I feel I should share with them during their formative years.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -- Original Message --
> Received: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:18:48 AM EDT
> From: Stefan Wagener 
> To: Daniel Schultz Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Why should we support AMSAT?
> 
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > You have some good points and your thoughts are appreciated. But why
> > are you diminishing the students efforts by making these statements:
> >
> > At least they are building, studying, learning and actually many times
> > successfully have an operational satellite.
> >
> > Thanks for reading.
> >
> > Stefan, VE4NSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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