Re: ITIL Remedy
The ITSM 7 generation of Remedy have made several senior Remedy developers to rethink if they want to continue working in the ARS Environment. Senior account managers, sales and pre-sales people are selling to their clients that that customization is something the client should not do. Everything that needs to be fixed will be fixed in patches generated by BMC. Some clients have had bad experience with upgrades and over customized sites. Personally I think BMC are on a wrong path with their direction with their no customization attitude and their use of patches. It can easily backfire. Long time consultants are turning into configuration slaves, foundation data loaders and the never ending patch players. Personally I am not happy the direction of my profession. One of the best selling functionalities of ARS has been the quick development time and easy customization to meet most requirements. Patches need to be more transparent. All workflow changes must be documented or the code available for local review. ~Terje From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Rick Cook Sent: Tue 06/05/2008 07:38 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** I agree with you on the patches, Shawn. It may be easier to use, but I can't imagine telling a customer (or my manager) that I want to install a patch, though I have no idea what effect that patch will have because I don't know the contents. Surely there's some ITIL practice being violated here. I don't think hoping for the best is part of a standard Release or Change Management process. Perhaps someone at BMC could shed some light on why they are using such a process? Rick On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Scott, You are correct, but BMC sales folks often tell you that you either shouldn't customize or that there is no need to. They also like to push for any customizations, even small cosmetic ones, being something you should hire BMC Professional Services to do. On the other hand, BMC themselves have made ITSM much harder to customize, and has made the patches less transparent. It was much easier to maintain customizations when you could manually install a patch by importing a .def file and see what was going to happen before you do it. With the new method, you basically just have to click next a few times and hope for the best. I think BMC went this route strategically in order to make it easier for novices to install patches. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:35 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Kevin, I do not think that if you customize ITSM 7 that you are breaking BMC's rules. At the BMC User World in Vancouver, one of the pre-conference tutorials (a tutorial developed and taught by BMC) was title In-depth Analysis into Best Practices of BMC Remedy IT Service Management 7.x.. Lesson 5 of the tutorial is titled Customizing ITSM Applications. The lesson even describes how to customize the Incident Management Process Flow. I've never heard anything about BMC not supporting a customized ITSM 7 application, nor have I seen any communication from BMC, written or otherwise, that states you are not to customize the apps. By the way, I would be considered both an AR Server application developer and an ITSM implementer. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com http://www.itprophets.com/ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:55 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P
Re: ITIL Remedy
You can certainly add me to that list, Terje. Raising goats is starting to look mighty good, especially since the willingness and intelligence of goats compares favorably to that of middle management. But, haven't we been having this discussion for years? Jennifer From: Terje Moglestue Sent: Thu 08-May-08 04:45 To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy The ITSM 7 generation of Remedy have made several senior Remedy = developers to rethink if they want to continue working in the ARS = Environment. Senior account managers, sales and pre-sales people are = selling to their clients that that customization is something the = client should not do. Everything that needs to be fixed will be fixed in = patches generated by BMC. Some clients have had bad experience with = upgrades and over customized sites. Personally I think BMC are on a = wrong path with their direction with their no customization attitude and = their use of patches. It can easily backfire. =20 Long time consultants are turning into configuration slaves, = foundation data loaders and the never ending patch players. = Personally I am not happy the direction of my profession. One of the = best selling functionalities of ARS has been the quick development time = and easy customization to meet most requirements. =20 Patches need to be more transparent. All workflow changes must be = documented or the code available for local review. =20 ~Terje =20 =20 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Rick = Cook Sent: Tue 06/05/2008 07:38 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
THANKS - Friday humor a day early :) Goats Middle Management - if Scott Adams monitors this list, he just got some additional inspiration! Thanks for the great laugh - I really needed it today :) Robert On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jennifer Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** You can certainly add me to that list, Terje. Raising goats is starting to look mighty good, especially since the willingness and intelligence of goats compares favorably to that of middle management. But, haven't we been having this discussion for years? Jennifer ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Norm, Don't make me cry this early in the week. From: Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tue 06-May-08 13:15 To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Anyway, this is just my two cents on this topic. Working in I.T. requires more of us than it used to. We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. We have to be professionals who know how to interact with others and work for the good of our customers. That is, after all, what ITIL is out to help us do. Well, yes, of course...no kidding. Folks, there is a reason why Dilbert is so popular: Smart worker bee engineer who sees so many things wrong With his company and its processes yet is powerless to do anything about it. Manager is a dolt, bureaucracy is deep, top management is unapproachable... It's popular because it rings true with so many. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag positions like Owner or Manager to the process it leads people to believe that these are physical positions when they are really functions of the process. Everyone is correct in saying that the Service Desk should be the central point of contact for customers. A function of the Service Desk is to oversee the Incident Management Process. However, an incident may pass through several support groups and these support groups are also responsible for following the process. The service desk is there to create a ticket (hopefully resolve too), forward to support groups when necessary, be the POC for the customer if the customer needs to call in for additional questions/status updates, and follow-up with the customer once the incident is resolved. Now with Remedy some of these functions may be automated within the system. Once a ticket is resolved an email or survey may be sent out to the customer, which would constitute the service desk contact to the customer. Also, SLAs and OLAs may be put in place to ensure that the incident is handled in a timely manner. This allows the system to take over much of the functionality of the process flow. So as you implement the ITIL processes look at a lot of the things in ITIL as functions that are performed during the process. Every person/group involved in the process needs to understand the functions and may be responsible for doing the function at some point in the process. This was one of the things that ITIL v3 tried to address and one thing that the writers will stress. Remember ITIL is just a framework/guide to help organizations build their own best practices. Just because the sample flow diagrams and functions are in the ITIL books does not mean that organizations have to follow them to a T. Use what works and makes sense for your organization. The more complicated you make a process the less likely it will be followed. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benedetto Cantatore Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Here's some examples where you have different owners Helpdesk are incident owners for all helpdesk related problems NCC/NOC would be the owner for infrastructure issues (yes, I know some companies combine the helpdesk/NCC into a service desk) In a global environment the local helpdesks would be the incident owner rather than the global helpdesk for local issues. In each of the examples above, those groups would be interested and more importantly responsible for tracking the incident throughout its lifecycle. Ben Cantatore Remedy Manager (914) 457-6209 Emerging Health IT 3 Odell Plaza Yonkers, New York 10701 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/05/08 1:01 PM ** I understand both concepts - perhaps I need to clarify. Ticket comes in and the ticket is Auto-assigned to the Help Desk (Assigned Group). The Help Desk feels they should be the Incident Owner (Owner Group). The Help Desk then assigns the ticket to a Support Group (now the support group is the Assigned Group). The Support Group believes they should be the incident owner (Owner Group). In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:49:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight
Re: ITIL Remedy
Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag positions like Owner or Manager to the process it leads people to believe that these are physical positions when they are really functions of the process. Everyone is correct in saying that the Service Desk should be the central point of contact for customers. A function of the Service Desk is to oversee the Incident Management Process. However, an incident may pass through several support groups and these support groups are also responsible for following the process. The service desk is there to create a ticket (hopefully resolve too), forward to support groups when necessary, be the POC for the customer if the customer needs to call in for additional questions/status updates, and follow-up with the customer once the incident is resolved. Now with Remedy some of these functions may be automated within the system. Once a ticket is resolved an email or survey may be sent out to the customer, which would constitute the service desk contact to the customer. Also, SLAs and OLAs may be put in place to ensure that the incident is handled in a timely manner. This allows the system to take over much of the functionality of the process flow. So as you implement the ITIL processes look at a lot of the things in ITIL as functions that are performed during the process. Every person/group involved in the process needs to understand the functions and may be responsible for doing the function at some point in the process. This was one of the things that ITIL v3 tried to address and one thing that the writers will stress. Remember ITIL is just a framework/guide to help organizations build their own best practices. Just because the sample flow diagrams and functions are in the ITIL books does not mean that organizations have to follow them to a T. Use what works and makes sense for your organization. The more complicated you make a process the less likely it will be followed. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benedetto Cantatore Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Here's some examples where you have different owners Helpdesk are incident owners for all helpdesk related problems NCC/NOC would be the owner for infrastructure issues (yes, I know some companies combine the helpdesk/NCC into a service desk) In a global environment the local helpdesks would be the incident owner rather than the global helpdesk for local issues. In each of the examples above, those groups would be interested and more importantly responsible for tracking the incident throughout its lifecycle. Ben Cantatore Remedy Manager (914) 457-6209
Re: ITIL Remedy
Isn't that generally a people issue? Not to start a flamewar but you'll find those individuals in any setting where there's heavy emotional committment + ideology. To name a few... -Religion -Politics -Global warming (both sides quite frequently) -Fishing (often referred to as [EMAIL PROTECTED] fishing!) -Hockey/Football/Etc... The key is to identify the zealot and deal with them accordingly :) Not to digress but I've tasted the ITIL Kool-aid and I think it's OK but I don't preach it. Time and time again I have been at customer sites the first week and been thinking WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE EVER DO PROCESS only to find out there is usually a VERY good reason for the way people do things. Often those processes can be improved, streamlined, and made more efficient. However, nearly as often those processes were put in place due to legal/regulatory requirements, contractual obligations, union rules, external vendor service contracts, and a myriad of other reasons. Changing those requires lawyers and a budget of astronomical proportions. In one case it literally would have taken an act of Congress. Counter-intuitive non-ITIL stuff happens all the time. One company I was at had individual service teams in each building. These were small teams of 2-8 people depending on the building size. They did not deal with major issues like software debugging but did all of the small standard stuff. When the issue of centralizing was brought up they refused - they'd already done studies showing that the travel time from a central facility out to the customer's desks alone made it too expensive. This particular company did a lot of in-cube service. Some may disagree with their approach but this was their choice and the corporate culture demanded that level of service. This is starting to sound like a ramble. I'm ending it there. William Rentfrow Principal Consultant, StrataCom [EMAIL PROTECTED] O 952-432-0227 C 701-306-6157 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Scott Parrish Sent: Tue 5/6/2008 9:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag positions like Owner or Manager to the process it leads people to believe that these are physical positions when they are really functions of the process. Everyone is correct in saying that the Service Desk should be the central point of contact for customers. A function of the Service Desk is to oversee the Incident Management Process. However, an incident may pass through several support groups and these support groups are also responsible for following the process. The service desk is there to create a ticket (hopefully
Re: ITIL Remedy
The original question was asked about ITIL and ITSM 7. BMC is suppose to have ITSM 7 extremely ITIL compliant... how can one use ITSM 7 and expect the users not to follow ITIL in all areas of the IT organization? Yes, there will be many o-departments boasting about 'We don't need to follow ITIL, we are a different company and we do things differently here' True, a boat manufacturing company might be different from a mortgage broker, but business practices are pretty much the same across the board that's why ITIL was made! AR Server is like that famous burger slogan, you can have it your way, as long as you write the code, yourself. If you don't want to follow ITIL, don't get ITSM, develop your own applications. Anyways, if you want to use your head to get nails into a 2x4, go right ahead... I just think a hammer is 'best practice' Kevin P. **'Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag positions like Owner or Manager to the process it leads people to believe that these are physical positions when they are really functions of the process. Everyone is correct in saying that the Service Desk should be the central point of contact for customers. A function of the Service Desk is to oversee the Incident Management Process. However, an incident may pass through several support groups and these support groups are also responsible for following the process. The service desk is there to create a ticket (hopefully resolve too), forward to support groups when necessary, be the POC for the customer if the customer needs to call in for additional questions/status updates, and follow-up with the customer once the incident is resolved. Now with Remedy some of these functions may be automated within the system. Once a ticket is resolved an email or survey may be sent out to the customer, which would constitute the service desk contact to the customer. Also, SLAs and OLAs may be put in place to ensure that the incident is handled in a timely manner. This allows the system to take over much of the functionality of the process flow. So as you implement the ITIL processes look at a lot of the things in ITIL as functions that are performed during the process. Every person/group involved in the process needs to understand the functions and may be responsible for doing the function at some point in the process. This was one of the things that ITIL v3 tried to address and one thing that the writers will stress. Remember ITIL is just a framework/guide to help organizations build their own best practices. Just because the sample flow diagrams and functions are in the ITIL books does not mean that organizations have to follow them to a T. Use
Re: ITIL Remedy
Norm, So is your issue with ITIL or is it with those who drink the ITIL cool-aid? Along with ITIL you also rattled off CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma and TQM. Does a set of standards, best practices or framework exist that you agree with (ISO maybe?)? One of the things that I've come across is that within organizations oftentimes no two people can agree on what ownership of a ticket might mean, or what the process should be for creating Changes. In these situations, and in many, many others, I can see the advantage of being able to point to a set of predetermined standards such as those defined by ITIL. You are correct in that I don't need ITIL to define for me what the ownership of a ticket should be. However, the head of the networking group might have a completely different definition of ticket ownership. I have seen the results of what a custom help desk system can look like when those with differing opinions have their say and their way. To that, I say no thanks! I am grateful that organizations have chosen to adopt a set of best practices that can be pointed to in these situations. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:45 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Yes I have, many times...and not only about ITIL. I've been down this road with ITIL, CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma, TQM... How do I handle it? Unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. Usually the people like me (worker bees or implementers) deal with middle management who have little or no power to change things even if I could convince them that we should. I suppose that's one of the biggest problems with process frameworks--they are taken too literally and their *intent* is missed. Then you find yourself just filling squares because, That's what the process says to do... And then you have to contend with the people who view all dissenters as resistors to change. That is, if you say, Well, you know, I don't think this is the best way... oftentimes you're viewed as just fearful of change (which, granted, many people are) and just get handed a copy of *Who Moved My Cheese?*. There are those who bring up issues because they make *sense* and there are those who bring up issues because they don't want to change. Unfortunately, oftentimes both get lumped together. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag
Re: ITIL Remedy
William hit the nail on the head. Most of these issues are people related. Either there was no buy in at levels, all levels were not involved in the decision/definition/implementation process, or the appropriate training was not given. Not knowing who the Owner is, is a communication/training issue or the definition is not well defined. It is true that organizations have been doing Incident Management since the beginning of time. It's not that by adopting ITIL an organization is implementing ITIL, but moving towards a process improvement strategy and standardize on process/procedures/terminology using ITIL as a guide. That improvement strategy needs to be ongoing. A lot of organizations setup these processes and forget about and force people to follow them. There is always room for improvement. If you don't take the lessons learned and improve the process they will eventually fail. As far as doing as your told, an organization hires people because they add some type of value. Most organizations do not necessarily want a do as your told person. However, it is critical that in order to make recommendations that a person understands the big picture and the why. It is also important that once a person understands that to make suggestions/solutions. There are a lot of people that will state something is wrong and needs to be fixed, but don't provide a viable solution. If you don't agree with Owner say why and provide another solution. Not all solutions are excepted but you should also be given a reason why, not ITIL doesn't say that. Not to continue the rant because I know a lot of this is in an ideal situation, but if people spend less time complaining about a problem and more time contributing to a solution more things would get done. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Rentfrow Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Isn't that generally a people issue? Not to start a flamewar but you'll find those individuals in any setting where there's heavy emotional committment + ideology. To name a few... -Religion -Politics -Global warming (both sides quite frequently) -Fishing (often referred to as [EMAIL PROTECTED] fishing!) -Hockey/Football/Etc... The key is to identify the zealot and deal with them accordingly :) Not to digress but I've tasted the ITIL Kool-aid and I think it's OK but I don't preach it. Time and time again I have been at customer sites the first week and been thinking WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE EVER DO PROCESS only to find out there is usually a VERY good reason for the way people do things. Often those processes can be improved, streamlined, and made more efficient. However, nearly as often those processes were put in place due to legal/regulatory requirements, contractual obligations, union rules, external vendor service contracts, and a myriad of other reasons. Changing those requires lawyers and a budget of astronomical proportions. In one case it literally would have taken an act of Congress. Counter-intuitive non-ITIL stuff happens all the time. One company I was at had individual service teams in each building. These were small teams of 2-8 people depending on the building size. They did not deal with major issues like software debugging but did all of the small standard stuff. When the issue of centralizing was brought up they refused - they'd already done studies showing that the travel time from a central facility out to the customer's desks alone made it too expensive. This particular company did a lot of in-cube service. Some may disagree with their approach but this was their choice and the corporate culture demanded that level of service. This is starting to sound like a ramble. I'm ending it there. William Rentfrow Principal Consultant, StrataCom [EMAIL PROTECTED] O 952-432-0227 C 701-306-6157 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Scott Parrish Sent: Tue 5/6/2008 9:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first
Re: ITIL Remedy
One need only to click on the SERVICES link on the IT Prophets website to understand your perspective. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:06 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, So is your issue with ITIL or is it with those who drink the ITIL cool-aid? Along with ITIL you also rattled off CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma and TQM. Does a set of standards, best practices or framework exist that you agree with (ISO maybe?)? One of the things that I've come across is that within organizations oftentimes no two people can agree on what ownership of a ticket might mean, or what the process should be for creating Changes. In these situations, and in many, many others, I can see the advantage of being able to point to a set of predetermined standards such as those defined by ITIL. You are correct in that I don't need ITIL to define for me what the ownership of a ticket should be. However, the head of the networking group might have a completely different definition of ticket ownership. I have seen the results of what a custom help desk system can look like when those with differing opinions have their say and their way. To that, I say no thanks! I am grateful that organizations have chosen to adopt a set of best practices that can be pointed to in these situations. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:45 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Yes I have, many times...and not only about ITIL. I've been down this road with ITIL, CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma, TQM... How do I handle it? Unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. Usually the people like me (worker bees or implementers) deal with middle management who have little or no power to change things even if I could convince them that we should. I suppose that's one of the biggest problems with process frameworks--they are taken too literally and their *intent* is missed. Then you find yourself just filling squares because, That's what the process says to do... And then you have to contend with the people who view all dissenters as resistors to change. That is, if you say, Well, you know, I don't think this is the best way... oftentimes you're viewed as just fearful of change (which, granted, many people are) and just get handed a copy of *Who Moved My Cheese?*. There are those who bring up issues because they make *sense* and there are those who bring up issues because they don't want to change. Unfortunately, oftentimes both get lumped together. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list
Re: ITIL Remedy
While I don't believe that's 100% true I won't argue with that. However, I'm trying to get an understanding of your perspective (that's why I asked the questions). Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:13 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy One need only to click on the SERVICES link on the IT Prophets website to understand your perspective. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:06 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, So is your issue with ITIL or is it with those who drink the ITIL cool-aid? Along with ITIL you also rattled off CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma and TQM. Does a set of standards, best practices or framework exist that you agree with (ISO maybe?)? One of the things that I've come across is that within organizations oftentimes no two people can agree on what ownership of a ticket might mean, or what the process should be for creating Changes. In these situations, and in many, many others, I can see the advantage of being able to point to a set of predetermined standards such as those defined by ITIL. You are correct in that I don't need ITIL to define for me what the ownership of a ticket should be. However, the head of the networking group might have a completely different definition of ticket ownership. I have seen the results of what a custom help desk system can look like when those with differing opinions have their say and their way. To that, I say no thanks! I am grateful that organizations have chosen to adopt a set of best practices that can be pointed to in these situations. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:45 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Yes I have, many times...and not only about ITIL. I've been down this road with ITIL, CMM, CMMI, Six Sigma, TQM... How do I handle it? Unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. Usually the people like me (worker bees or implementers) deal with middle management who have little or no power to change things even if I could convince them that we should. I suppose that's one of the biggest problems with process frameworks--they are taken too literally and their *intent* is missed. Then you find yourself just filling squares because, That's what the process says to do... And then you have to contend with the people who view all dissenters as resistors to change. That is, if you say, Well, you know, I don't think this is the best way... oftentimes you're viewed as just fearful of change (which, granted, many people are) and just get handed a copy of *Who Moved My Cheese?*. There are those who bring up issues because they make *sense* and there are those who bring up issues because they don't want to change. Unfortunately, oftentimes both get lumped together. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about
Re: ITIL Remedy
I would add that not only do most organizations not hire someone as only a do as you are told resource, if you adopt that mindset you can get into a lot of trouble. I've been on site at places where people did exactly what management told them to do, which was flawed, then the managers became upset with the consultant for not showing them the better way. Developers have to be skilled at interpreting user requests and requirements into something useful. The same applies for huge, highly-configurable applications like ITSM. If you are a full-time employee or consultant, you are a subject matter expert on Remedy, ITSM, and to some degree ITIL. Of course you are going to have people above you dictating the direction, but if you don't bring up concerns you have with implementing it you're going to have a lot of problems. I've also found that in many cases, the higher up the food chain a person is, the less they care about the details. You may have a CIO or director telling you we have to implement ITIL! but they usually aren't going to focus on specifics. It's not a matter of following orders as much as understanding the best way to interpret them. My current employer really expects me to be aware of what is going on with ITIL and ways other companies are implementing it with ITSM. Whenever I go to my CIO or director and talk to them about the direction I'm going with Remedy, it's not for them to dictate to me who the Owner or Assignee of an Incident should be, it's my job to let them know what I think the best practice is, and what would work best for our company. Anyway, this is just my two cents on this topic. Working in I.T. requires more of us than it used to. We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. We have to be professionals who know how to interact with others and work for the good of our customers. That is, after all, what ITIL is out to help us do. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:10 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy William hit the nail on the head. Most of these issues are people related. Either there was no buy in at levels, all levels were not involved in the decision/definition/implementation process, or the appropriate training was not given. Not knowing who the Owner is, is a communication/training issue or the definition is not well defined. It is true that organizations have been doing Incident Management since the beginning of time. It's not that by adopting ITIL an organization is implementing ITIL, but moving towards a process improvement strategy and standardize on process/procedures/terminology using ITIL as a guide. That improvement strategy needs to be ongoing. A lot of organizations setup these processes and forget about and force people to follow them. There is always room for improvement. If you don't take the lessons learned and improve the process they will eventually fail. As far as doing as your told, an organization hires people because they add some type of value. Most organizations do not necessarily want a do as your told person. However, it is critical that in order to make recommendations that a person understands the big picture and the why. It is also important that once a person understands that to make suggestions/solutions. There are a lot of people that will state something is wrong and needs to be fixed, but don't provide a viable solution. If you don't agree with Owner say why and provide another solution. Not all solutions are excepted but you should also be given a reason why, not ITIL doesn't say that. Not to continue the rant because I know a lot of this is in an ideal situation, but if people spend less time complaining about a problem and more time contributing to a solution more things would get done. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Rentfrow Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Isn't that generally a people issue? Not to start a flamewar but you'll find those individuals in any setting where there's heavy emotional committment + ideology. To name a few... -Religion -Politics -Global warming (both sides quite frequently) -Fishing (often referred to as [EMAIL PROTECTED] fishing!) -Hockey/Football/Etc... The key is to identify the zealot and deal with them accordingly :) Not to digress but I've tasted the ITIL Kool-aid and I think it's OK but I don't preach it. Time and time again I have been at customer sites the first week and been thinking WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE EVER DO PROCESS only to find out there is usually a VERY good reason for the way people do things. Often those processes can be improved, streamlined, and made more efficient. However, nearly
Re: ITIL Remedy
AR Server is like that famous burger slogan, you can have it your way, as long as you write the code, yourself. If you don't want to follow ITIL, don't get ITSM, develop your own applications. Isn't this the problem though? In many cases (including one we're going through right here at present) decision-makers (i.e. people with money to spend) want a customized solution but are either led to believe, or believe of their own volition that they can get that out of something like the ITSM suite (or any other ITIL-compliant solution). Attaching buzzwords like ITIL-compliant only exacerbates that problem. I'm all for standardization and best practices, but when people fail to understand the definition of OOTB, it starts to get frustrating. As an AR System Administrator, when it comes to decision making, I'm a peon. I may have the most knowledge of the product and our process in my work center, but guess who doesn't get included in the meetings? I think Norm's reference to people fearful of change is right on the money with this one. Try telling someone with money that needs to be spent, that dropping ITSM modules on top of a highly customized AR System application may not be the best idea. I'm sure we can make it work, but I'm far from convinced it's the right way to go, particularly when the only thing you're after is a fancy acronym. Michael A. McManus, SSgt, USAF Remedy Developer -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:00 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** The original question was asked about ITIL and ITSM 7. BMC is suppose to have ITSM 7 extremely ITIL compliant... how can one use ITSM 7 and expect the users not to follow ITIL in all areas of the IT organization? Yes, there will be many o-departments boasting about 'We don't need to follow ITIL, we are a different company and we do things differently here' True, a boat manufacturing company might be different from a mortgage broker, but business practices are pretty much the same across the board that's why ITIL was made! AR Server is like that famous burger slogan, you can have it your way, as long as you write the code, yourself. If you don't want to follow ITIL, don't get ITSM, develop your own applications. Anyways, if you want to use your head to get nails into a 2x4, go right ahead... I just think a hammer is 'best practice' Kevin P. **'Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com http://www.itprophets.com/ -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other disciplined process framework flavor of the month) as you so choose. You do what you're told. Other people make the decisions, and oftentimes those decisions make little sense. But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** One issue many organizations face is taking ITIL for gospel. ITIL is just a framework/guide for organizations to use to define their own best practices. When you tag positions like Owner or Manager to the process it leads people to believe that these are physical positions when they are really functions of the process. Everyone
Re: ITIL Remedy
Wow, thanks Kathy for starting this thread with the below seemingly innocent question: --- Kathy Morris wrote: Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Thanks, --- Gary Opela, Jr., RSP Remedy Engineer Leader Communications, Inc. http://www.5pointleader.com http://www.lcibest.com Best Product, Best People, Best PriceTM An ISO 9001:2000 Certified, CMMI(r) Level 3 Rated Company -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McManus Michael A SSgt HQ 754 ELSG/DOMH Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:54 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy AR Server is like that famous burger slogan, you can have it your way, as long as you write the code, yourself. If you don't want to follow ITIL, don't get ITSM, develop your own applications. Isn't this the problem though? In many cases (including one we're going through right here at present) decision-makers (i.e. people with money to spend) want a customized solution but are either led to believe, or believe of their own volition that they can get that out of something like the ITSM suite (or any other ITIL-compliant solution). Attaching buzzwords like ITIL-compliant only exacerbates that problem. I'm all for standardization and best practices, but when people fail to understand the definition of OOTB, it starts to get frustrating. As an AR System Administrator, when it comes to decision making, I'm a peon. I may have the most knowledge of the product and our process in my work center, but guess who doesn't get included in the meetings? I think Norm's reference to people fearful of change is right on the money with this one. Try telling someone with money that needs to be spent, that dropping ITSM modules on top of a highly customized AR System application may not be the best idea. I'm sure we can make it work, but I'm far from convinced it's the right way to go, particularly when the only thing you're after is a fancy acronym. Michael A. McManus, SSgt, USAF Remedy Developer -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:00 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** The original question was asked about ITIL and ITSM 7. BMC is suppose to have ITSM 7 extremely ITIL compliant... how can one use ITSM 7 and expect the users not to follow ITIL in all areas of the IT organization? Yes, there will be many o-departments boasting about 'We don't need to follow ITIL, we are a different company and we do things differently here' True, a boat manufacturing company might be different from a mortgage broker, but business practices are pretty much the same across the board that's why ITIL was made! AR Server is like that famous burger slogan, you can have it your way, as long as you write the code, yourself. If you don't want to follow ITIL, don't get ITSM, develop your own applications. Anyways, if you want to use your head to get nails into a 2x4, go right ahead... I just think a hammer is 'best practice' Kevin P. **'Norm, Have you run into this situation: . . . But then when you challenge those decisions by asking, Why are we doing XYZ? you get a very vocal and forceful, BECAUSE ITIL SAYS SO! If so, how did you handle it. If not, how would you handle it? Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com http://www.itprophets.com/ -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:19 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Just a few observations on this point...please forgive me if I sound a bit sardonic. First, did anybody really need ITIL to tell them to do what Ben describes in the first paragraph--i.e., Service Desk (I refuse to call it that--it's the HELP Desk) should be the first point of contact for customers, incidents are overseen by the Help Desk, the Help Desk forwards incidents to appropriate groups, and the Help Desk follows up with customers once the ticket is resolved? I mean, come on--we were doing that 15 years ago (or longer). That's, like, Help Desk 101. Second, people repeat over and over again, ITIL is just a guideline...a framework...some best practices...a guide... That might be fine if you're the person making all the decisions about what the ITIL processes are going to be and how they will be implemented, but if you're just the *implementer* following the directions of a myriad of bosses who are all gung-ho about ITIL and about being ITIL certified you are not at liberty to use ITIL (or any other
Re: ITIL Remedy
There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Well, it's really about to what level companies are willing to buy into ITIL. If they want full ITIL, customization of ITSM will reflect that by being minimal. If they want some hybrid of the old and the new, customizations can be extensive, and therefore practically non-upgradeable. Not saying that one path is eminently better, but that one must be chosen. Either do ITIL fully, or don't. If you don't want to, why spend the time and money to implement something like ITSM? Rick On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Kevin Pulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. -- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ__Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Anyway, this is just my two cents on this topic. Working in I.T. requires more of us than it used to. We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. We have to be professionals who know how to interact with others and work for the good of our customers. That is, after all, what ITIL is out to help us do. Well, yes, of course...no kidding. Folks, there is a reason why Dilbert is so popular: Smart worker bee engineer who sees so many things wrong With his company and its processes yet is powerless to do anything about it. Manager is a dolt, bureaucracy is deep, top management is unapproachable... It's popular because it rings true with so many. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:49 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy I would add that not only do most organizations not hire someone as only a do as you are told resource, if you adopt that mindset you can get into a lot of trouble. I've been on site at places where people did exactly what management told them to do, which was flawed, then the managers became upset with the consultant for not showing them the better way. Developers have to be skilled at interpreting user requests and requirements into something useful. The same applies for huge, highly-configurable applications like ITSM. If you are a full-time employee or consultant, you are a subject matter expert on Remedy, ITSM, and to some degree ITIL. Of course you are going to have people above you dictating the direction, but if you don't bring up concerns you have with implementing it you're going to have a lot of problems. I've also found that in many cases, the higher up the food chain a person is, the less they care about the details. You may have a CIO or director telling you we have to implement ITIL! but they usually aren't going to focus on specifics. It's not a matter of following orders as much as understanding the best way to interpret them. My current employer really expects me to be aware of what is going on with ITIL and ways other companies are implementing it with ITSM. Whenever I go to my CIO or director and talk to them about the direction I'm going with Remedy, it's not for them to dictate to me who the Owner or Assignee of an Incident should be, it's my job to let them know what I think the best practice is, and what would work best for our company. Anyway, this is just my two cents on this topic. Working in I.T. requires more of us than it used to. We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. We have to be professionals who know how to interact with others and work for the good of our customers. That is, after all, what ITIL is out to help us do. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:10 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy William hit the nail on the head. Most of these issues are people related. Either there was no buy in at levels, all levels were not involved in the decision/definition/implementation process, or the appropriate training was not given. Not knowing who the Owner is, is a communication/training issue or the definition is not well defined. It is true that organizations have been doing Incident Management since the beginning of time. It's not that by adopting ITIL an organization is implementing ITIL, but moving towards a process improvement strategy and standardize on process/procedures/terminology using ITIL as a guide. That improvement strategy needs to be ongoing. A lot of organizations setup these processes and forget about and force people to follow them. There is always room for improvement. If you don't take the lessons learned and improve the process they will eventually fail. As far as doing as your told, an organization hires people because they add some type of value. Most organizations do not necessarily want a do as your told person. However, it is critical that in order to make recommendations that a person understands the big picture and the why. It is also important that once a person understands that to make suggestions/solutions. There are a lot of people that will state something is wrong and needs to be fixed, but don't provide a viable solution. If you don't agree with Owner say why and provide another solution. Not all solutions are excepted but you should also be given a reason why, not ITIL doesn't say that. Not to continue the rant because I know a lot of this is in an ideal situation, but if people spend less time complaining about a problem and more time contributing to a solution more things would get done. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: ITIL Remedy
Kevin, I do not think that if you customize ITSM 7 that you are breaking BMC's rules. At the BMC User World in Vancouver, one of the pre-conference tutorials (a tutorial developed and taught by BMC) was title In-depth Analysis into Best Practices of BMC Remedy IT Service Management 7.x.. Lesson 5 of the tutorial is titled Customizing ITSM Applications. The lesson even describes how to customize the Incident Management Process Flow. I've never heard anything about BMC not supporting a customized ITSM 7 application, nor have I seen any communication from BMC, written or otherwise, that states you are not to customize the apps. By the way, I would be considered both an AR Server application developer and an ITSM implementer. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:55 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 it now. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
SP We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. So, if I understand you correctly, ITIL Best Practices say that I should shave more and get a tan? :-) I can live with that. Thad Esser Remedy Developer Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.-- Richard Bach Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG 05/06/2008 08:49 AM Please respond to arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To arslist@ARSLIST.ORG cc Subject Re: ITIL Remedy I would add that not only do most organizations not hire someone as only a do as you are told resource, if you adopt that mindset you can get into a lot of trouble. I've been on site at places where people did exactly what management told them to do, which was flawed, then the managers became upset with the consultant for not showing them the better way. Developers have to be skilled at interpreting user requests and requirements into something useful. The same applies for huge, highly-configurable applications like ITSM. If you are a full-time employee or consultant, you are a subject matter expert on Remedy, ITSM, and to some degree ITIL. Of course you are going to have people above you dictating the direction, but if you don't bring up concerns you have with implementing it you're going to have a lot of problems. I've also found that in many cases, the higher up the food chain a person is, the less they care about the details. You may have a CIO or director telling you we have to implement ITIL! but they usually aren't going to focus on specifics. It's not a matter of following orders as much as understanding the best way to interpret them. My current employer really expects me to be aware of what is going on with ITIL and ways other companies are implementing it with ITSM. Whenever I go to my CIO or director and talk to them about the direction I'm going with Remedy, it's not for them to dictate to me who the Owner or Assignee of an Incident should be, it's my job to let them know what I think the best practice is, and what would work best for our company. Anyway, this is just my two cents on this topic. Working in I.T. requires more of us than it used to. We can't be bearded hermits hiding in dark server rooms doing mysterious things all day. We have to be professionals who know how to interact with others and work for the good of our customers. That is, after all, what ITIL is out to help us do. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Pancia Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:10 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy William hit the nail on the head. Most of these issues are people related. Either there was no buy in at levels, all levels were not involved in the decision/definition/implementation process, or the appropriate training was not given. Not knowing who the Owner is, is a communication/training issue or the definition is not well defined. It is true that organizations have been doing Incident Management since the beginning of time. It's not that by adopting ITIL an organization is implementing ITIL, but moving towards a process improvement strategy and standardize on process/procedures/terminology using ITIL as a guide. That improvement strategy needs to be ongoing. A lot of organizations setup these processes and forget about and force people to follow them. There is always room for improvement. If you don't take the lessons learned and improve the process they will eventually fail. As far as doing as your told, an organization hires people because they add some type of value. Most organizations do not necessarily want a do as your told person. However, it is critical that in order to make recommendations that a person understands the big picture and the why. It is also important that once a person understands that to make suggestions/solutions. There are a lot of people that will state something is wrong and needs to be fixed, but don't provide a viable solution. If you don't agree with Owner say why and provide another solution. Not all solutions are excepted but you should also be given a reason why, not ITIL doesn't say that. Not to continue the rant because I know a lot of this is in an ideal situation, but if people spend less time complaining about a problem and more time contributing to a solution more things would get done. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Rentfrow Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Isn't that generally a people issue? Not to start a flamewar but you'll find those individuals in any setting where there's heavy emotional committment + ideology. To name a few... -Religion -Politics -Global warming (both sides quite frequently
Re: ITIL Remedy
Actually, I'm not sure that applying customizations to ITSM 7 are in contravention of ITIL - none of the ones that I have had to make to Incident Management were built to get around some ITIL best practice that is built into the OOTB application, they were built to fix some idiotic lapse on the part of the application designers (dropping the ability to select customers using login name or corporate id), or to solve a specific usability problem, fit the customer data to our local situation, or support the Kinetic Request integration. Generally, they had to be made when a data-driven configuration solution would not work, and we do think about those first: we just figured out a data driven solution to use for the Broadcasts module that avoids recreating a customization that we had on the old Bulletins form. Personally, I would not equate deploying ITSM 7 OOTB with buying in to ITIL (which no one above my director has done, anyway, so it is not a driving factor here at all). The ITSM 7 app is just a tool set that facilitates implementing ITIL practices, and an imperfect tool at that. We are working in the opposite direction; when someone complains that they liked how Help Desk 5.5 did something better, usually because of some customization that we had done, we mention that the new application follows ITIL best practices more closely, and that we should be too. I guess we are using ITIL as a crutch, invoking it to avoid excessive customization, but since most of our complaints come from the same group that brought us PeopleSoft OOTB - no customizations allowed or considered (which made it vastly less usable or useful than the custom mainframe application that we had before), turnabout is fair play. Christopher Strauss, Ph.D. Call Tracking Administration Manager University of North Texas Computing IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/ http://itsm.unt.edu/ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:03 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Well, it's really about to what level companies are willing to buy into ITIL. If they want full ITIL, customization of ITSM will reflect that by being minimal. If they want some hybrid of the old and the new, customizations can be extensive, and therefore practically non-upgradeable. Not saying that one path is eminently better, but that one must be chosen. Either do ITIL fully, or don't. If you don't want to, why spend the time and money to implement something like ITSM? Rick On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Kevin Pulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62 sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Scott, You are correct, but BMC sales folks often tell you that you either shouldn't customize or that there is no need to. They also like to push for any customizations, even small cosmetic ones, being something you should hire BMC Professional Services to do. On the other hand, BMC themselves have made ITSM much harder to customize, and has made the patches less transparent. It was much easier to maintain customizations when you could manually install a patch by importing a .def file and see what was going to happen before you do it. With the new method, you basically just have to click next a few times and hope for the best. I think BMC went this route strategically in order to make it easier for novices to install patches. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:35 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Kevin, I do not think that if you customize ITSM 7 that you are breaking BMC's rules. At the BMC User World in Vancouver, one of the pre-conference tutorials (a tutorial developed and taught by BMC) was title In-depth Analysis into Best Practices of BMC Remedy IT Service Management 7.x.. Lesson 5 of the tutorial is titled Customizing ITSM Applications. The lesson even describes how to customize the Incident Management Process Flow. I've never heard anything about BMC not supporting a customized ITSM 7 application, nor have I seen any communication from BMC, written or otherwise, that states you are not to customize the apps. By the way, I would be considered both an AR Server application developer and an ITSM implementer. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:55 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62 sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Shawn, I agree, but what you have stated is a far cry from . . . breaking BMC's rules Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:29 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy Scott, You are correct, but BMC sales folks often tell you that you either shouldn't customize or that there is no need to. They also like to push for any customizations, even small cosmetic ones, being something you should hire BMC Professional Services to do. On the other hand, BMC themselves have made ITSM much harder to customize, and has made the patches less transparent. It was much easier to maintain customizations when you could manually install a patch by importing a .def file and see what was going to happen before you do it. With the new method, you basically just have to click next a few times and hope for the best. I think BMC went this route strategically in order to make it easier for novices to install patches. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:35 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Kevin, I do not think that if you customize ITSM 7 that you are breaking BMC's rules. At the BMC User World in Vancouver, one of the pre-conference tutorials (a tutorial developed and taught by BMC) was title In-depth Analysis into Best Practices of BMC Remedy IT Service Management 7.x.. Lesson 5 of the tutorial is titled Customizing ITSM Applications. The lesson even describes how to customize the Incident Management Process Flow. I've never heard anything about BMC not supporting a customized ITSM 7 application, nor have I seen any communication from BMC, written or otherwise, that states you are not to customize the apps. By the way, I would be considered both an AR Server application developer and an ITSM implementer. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:55 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 it now. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
I agree with you on the patches, Shawn. It may be easier to use, but I can't imagine telling a customer (or my manager) that I want to install a patch, though I have no idea what effect that patch will have because I don't know the contents. Surely there's some ITIL practice being violated here. I don't think hoping for the best is part of a standard Release or Change Management process. Perhaps someone at BMC could shed some light on why they are using such a process? Rick On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Scott, You are correct, but BMC sales folks often tell you that you either shouldn't customize or that there is no need to. They also like to push for any customizations, even small cosmetic ones, being something you should hire BMC Professional Services to do. On the other hand, BMC themselves have made ITSM much harder to customize, and has made the patches less transparent. It was much easier to maintain customizations when you could manually install a patch by importing a .def file and see what was going to happen before you do it. With the new method, you basically just have to click next a few times and hope for the best. I think BMC went this route strategically in order to make it easier for novices to install patches. Shawn Pierson *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Parrish *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:35 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: ITIL Remedy ** Kevin, I do not think that if you customize ITSM 7 that you are breaking BMC's rules. At the BMC User World in Vancouver, one of the pre-conference tutorials (a tutorial developed and taught by BMC) was title In-depth Analysis into Best Practices of BMC Remedy IT Service Management 7.x.. Lesson 5 of the tutorial is titled Customizing ITSM Applications. The lesson even describes how to customize the Incident Management Process Flow. I've never heard anything about BMC not supporting a customized ITSM 7 application, nor have I seen any communication from BMC, written or otherwise, that states you are not to customize the apps. By the way, I would be considered both an AR Server application developer and an ITSM implementer. Scott Parrish IT Prophets, LLC (770) 653-5203 www.itprophets.com -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Pulsen *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:55 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: ITIL Remedy ** There seems to be a smoldering issue here. In previous versions, you could customize the dickens out of the ootb applications (To fit your business needs). However now with ITSM 7, customization is a four letter word. You are allowed to configure it, but if want to customize it you are breaking BMC's rules. It seems like there is a line being drawn in the sand between the AR Server application developers and the ITSM implementers. Is this thread now really about ITIL and ITSM? Just a reminder, this is the direction BMC is making with it's product line. You may like it, you may hate it, either way it's a product we have to support. Kathy, Was your question answered to your satisfaction? Kevin P. -- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20__Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can't edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Normally we assign it to the Help Desk - but who would be the Owner In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:21:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can’t edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed _here_ (http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail) . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Our model is to make the IT support group that provides normal support to the customer the Owner. Students all have the central helpdesk as the Owner. Faculty and Staff have the distributed support area that does their desktop support (there are about 25 different groups) set as their owner. That way the IT staff that are directly responsible for someone's computing support are aware of all the issues that they are having, even if it is with a centrally supported system and the incident is assigned elsewhere. Christopher Strauss, Ph.D. Call Tracking Administration Manager University of North Texas Computing IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/ _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. _ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
The logic on the owner is the Service Desk in most instances since ITIL proposes that the Service Desk is the point on contact for the requester. and will contact the requester to confirm that the Incident has been resolved and can be closed. -Original Message- From: Kathy Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:15 am Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, ? In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket.? Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? ? What are the advantages of one over the other. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
According to what I’ve been told, the best practice is to not assign anything to a person as an individual until there is a need for a specific person to be involved. So in the case of an Incident being created by the someone on the Service Desk, we assign it to that individual. When it’s created by someone else, it just gets assigned to the group as the Owner. You aren’t required to fill out a specific Owner, just an Owner Group. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:23 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Normally we assign it to the Help Desk - but who would be the Owner In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:21:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can’t edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender.
Re: ITIL Remedy
I can see the ticket being assigned to the Service Desk initially - however once the Service Desk assigns the ticket to the Assigned Group - would the Assigned Group be the Owner? or will it remain the Service Desk. Or is it in some cases the Service Desk and some cases the Support Team. This is a source of contention in our organization. Some Support Groups feel they should be the Owner - I thought ITIL basically states that the Owner is the team that effectively handles the ticket throughout the entire life cycle. Does ITIL stipulate that the Owner is the provider of the service or the Help Desk? In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:30:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** The logic on the owner is the Service Desk in most instances since ITIL proposes that the Service Desk is the point on contact for the requester. and will contact the requester to confirm that the Incident has been resolved and can be closed. **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
So the Assigned Group becomes the Owner? In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:30:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to what I’ve been told, the best practice is to not assign anything to a person as an individual until there is a need for a specific person to be involved. So in the case of an Incident being created by the someone on the Service Desk, we assign it to that individual. When it’s created by someone else, it just gets assigned to the group as the Owner. You aren’t required to fill out a specific Owner, just an Owner Group. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:23 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Normally we assign it to the Help Desk - but who would be the Owner In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:21:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can’t edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed _here_ (http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail) . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) . __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed _here_ (http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail) . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
According to pg 125 of the Incident Management User Guide, if the HelpDesk is ever assigned a ticket, they will always be the owner. I don’t have the ITIL knowledge to explain the why. But give that a read. Unfortunately the impact and the difference between Owner and Assigned Group is spread throughout the document and not it one place, so it’s been a little difficult for me to get a handle on that. In case you don’t have the doc, here is the meat. Understanding incident ownership Incident ownership is set when the incident is submitted. The incident owner depends on the support group membership of the person submitting the incident, as well as the support group being assigned the incident. For example, consider the following three support groups: ! Support Group A has a support group role of Help Desk. Person A is in Support Group A. ! Support Group B does not have a support group role of Help Desk; for example, it might have a support group role of Tier 2. Person B is in Support Group B. ! Support Group C does not have a support group role of Based on these support groups, the following example events show how the incident owner is set: ! Person A submits an incident. Because Person A is a member of a support group with the role of Help Desk, ownership of the incident is set to Support Group A, regardless of who is assigned this incident. ! Person B submits an incident and assigns it to Support Group A. Ownership of the incident is set to Support Group A because the group has the role of Help Desk. ! Person B submits another incident, and assigns the incident to Support Group C. Support Group B becomes the owner, because Person B is the submitter. Hope that helps! Brian From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:23 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Normally we assign it to the Help Desk - but who would be the Owner In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:21:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can’t edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Morris Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. _ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 twists on family favorites at AOL Food. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ _ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301 twists on family favorites at AOL Food. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
You use the process flow bar? :) From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
No. The Owner is the group/person responsible for ensuring that the customer's outage is resolved satisfactorily. The Assignee is the group/person responsible for resolving the reported problem on an Incident. Once the Assignee says the problem's resolved, the Incident is again the responsibility of the Owner, until the Requester says all is hunky-dory. In a real-world scenario, the Owner might be the triage/Level 1 area that takes the ticket and interacts with the users. The Assignee would be the technician who works the ticket. Rick On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Kathy Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** So the Assigned Group becomes the Owner? In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:30:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to what I've been told, the best practice is to not assign anything to a person as an individual until there is a need for a specific person to be involved. So in the case of an Incident being created by the someone on the Service Desk, we assign it to that individual. When it's created by someone else, it just gets assigned to the group as the Owner. You aren't required to fill out a specific Owner, just an Owner Group. *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kathy Morris *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 11:23 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: ITIL Remedy ** Normally we assign it to the Help Desk - but who would be the Owner In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:21:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** We automatically assign it to the Helpdesk Group (actually Service Desk if you want to be completely ITIL.) The reason being that ITSM is very locked down, and people who the ticket are not assigned to can't edit it. As a result, you might want the group people go to for help with the application to be able to reassign it when it is accidentally assigned to the wrong group. Shawn Pierson *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kathy Morris *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 11:16 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* ITIL Remedy ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. -- Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ -- Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.sug.com/disclaimers/default.htm#Mail. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. -- Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
No. Owner - Helpdesk Assignment - Level II, III etc The ownership should always belong helpdesk in a Single Point of Contact structure. There is no mixing going on. Kevin P. Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
I understand both concepts - perhaps I need to clarify. Ticket comes in and the ticket is Auto-assigned to the Help Desk (Assigned Group). The Help Desk feels they should be the Incident Owner (Owner Group). The Help Desk then assigns the ticket to a Support Group (now the support group is the Assigned Group). The Support Group believes they should be the incident owner (Owner Group). In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:49:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ __ _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
ITIL states the the Helpdesk should be the incident owner. The incident can be assigned to any support group. Helpdesk should be the single point of contact (opening the incident, giving the user a fix, workaround, making sure the incident is resolved, cradle to grave) This is ITIL's method. Kevin P. ** I understand both concepts - perhaps I need to clarify. Ticket comes in and the ticket is Auto-assigned to the Help Desk (Assigned Group). The Help Desk feels they should be the Incident Owner (Owner Group). The Help Desk then assigns the ticket to a Support Group (now the support group is the Assigned Group). The Support Group believes they should be the incident owner (Owner Group). In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:49:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
It gets more interesting in a multiple-point-of-contact environment, with multi-tenancy implemented in ITSM 7. OOTB ITIL doesn't really apply, but the principle of single-point-of-contact = owner does apply, it just differs for each customer group. In our environment the Level I providers - desktop support in each academic and administrative unit - are the Owners for fac/staff. The users in these areas only contact the central helpdesk as a last resort, since it never knows what is going on in their department to the degree that their internal IT support staff do. Also, some of these distributed units operate their own helpdesks/call centers (Library, College of Arts and Sciences), or have a specific administrative assistant who enters incidents for all fac/staff in the college. It is not uncommon for a faculty member in college X to ask their local IT support manager about a ticket they entered for a centrally supported system that was assigned elsewhere (typically level II). Note that in this environment, you have to create an explicit assignment rule and an explicit ownership rule for each discrete customer group, based upon the IT support structures that are in use. The good news is that you can configure ITSM 7 to support a more complex environment than the ITIL ideal. Christopher Strauss, Ph.D. Call Tracking Administration Manager University of North Texas Computing IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/ _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:54 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** No. Owner - Helpdesk Assignment - Level II, III etc The ownership should always belong helpdesk in a Single Point of Contact structure. There is no mixing going on. Kevin P. Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
That sounds correct to me. The Assignee group does the work, the Owner group is responsible for ensuring resolution with the users. Your support people need a refresher on ITIL definitions; sounds like they're interpreting it in their own way. Rick On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Kathy Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I understand both concepts - perhaps I need to clarify. Ticket comes in and the ticket is Auto-assigned to the Help Desk (Assigned Group). The Help Desk feels they should be the Incident Owner (Owner Group). The Help Desk then assigns the ticket to a Support Group (now the support group is the Assigned Group). The Support Group believes they should be the incident owner (Owner Group). In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:49:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are -- Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: ITIL Remedy
Here's some examples where you have different owners Helpdesk are incident owners for all helpdesk related problems NCC/NOC would be the owner for infrastructure issues (yes, I know some companies combine the helpdesk/NCC into a service desk) In a global environment the local helpdesks would be the incident owner rather than the global helpdesk for local issues. In each of the examples above, those groups would be interested and more importantly responsible for tracking the incident throughout its lifecycle. Ben Cantatore Remedy Manager (914) 457-6209 Emerging Health IT 3 Odell Plaza Yonkers, New York 10701 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/05/08 1:01 PM ** I understand both concepts - perhaps I need to clarify. Ticket comes in and the ticket is Auto-assigned to the Help Desk (Assigned Group). The Help Desk feels they should be the Incident Owner (Owner Group). The Help Desk then assigns the ticket to a Support Group (now the support group is the Assigned Group). The Support Group believes they should be the incident owner (Owner Group). In a message dated 5/5/2008 9:49:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aren't you, maybe, mixing the concepts of assignment and ownership? -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Pulsen Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:42 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITIL Remedy ** Hi Kathy, The Helpdesk really should be the owner of any incident. It's best that the customer has only one single point of contact - the helpdesk.. they need to own the incident from cradle to grave.. and they should be able to spawn any change or problem from the given incident. From a user's perspective, they hate being pushed around to 10 different Support Groups only to be handed off back to the Helpdesk... incident bouncing it not good. So to recap, Single point of contact - Helpdesk (Keep your Level II,III from getting calls directly from customers) Incident owner - Helpdesk (You can still assign it to other support groups) from cradle to grave. This method follows the Incident Process Flow Bar.. Hope this helps. Kevin P. ** Hi, In Remedy ITSM 7.0.1 - who should be the actual Owner of the ticket. Should it be the assigned group or the Help Desk? What are the advantages of one over the other. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i6 2sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. __Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are html___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
