Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Rajen & Ajanta Barua]

That is exactly one main point. 
However in this case the suggestion to change the name ASSAM to ASOM was 
initiated not by politicians but by late Chandra Prasad Saikia ex President of 
AXX and the Editor of an Assamese literary magazine 'Gariyashi'.  Politicians 
simply are following the so called Assamese intellectuals.
In my opinion, the Assamese civilization is at such a low point in history 
today, that there was hardly any strong protests against this move neither by 
any News Paper Editorials (Assamese or English) nor by any Assamese 
intellectuals (if there is any of this species left in Assam). Even the 
educated Assamese and the so called intellectuals are taking a typical Assamese 
'Hobo Diok' attitude, ( since it was proposed by CPS the ex President of ASS, 
let it be, Hobo Diok) and everybody are trying to burry their heads in sand and 
hoping that by writing ASOM instead of ASSAM, outsiders will pronounce the word 
as we pronounce it in Assamese word OXOM. (Assamese logic!!)

Historically also there is objection to change the name ASSAM to ASOM. The 
Assam pronunciation had been in vogue since the advent of the Tai Ahoms to 
Assam who were called at time by the local people (The Sutias, Kasaris etc) by 
the name Ashyam. (This is again is derived from the Sanskrit word Shyam as we 
call Thailand, Shyam dex. There were several Hindu colonies in many of the 
South  East Asian countries in the past when Thailand derived the Sanskrit name 
Shyam-dex.)  Anyhow, later the Moghols used that name Ashyam for our land, and 
eventually the Kamrup was replaced by Ashyam. The British simply changed the 
spelling to Assam keeping the same pronunciation. These are recorded history.  
Thus the Assam pronunciation had an eight hundred old years history.

With due respect, I must say that late CPS is an Assamese literary figure, but 
he is neither an historian nor a linguist, and he should not have poked his 
nose on such sensitive subject 

Sensible Assamese should protest this move to change the name of Assam strongly 
as otherwise our democracy itself is at stake with our 'Hobo Diok' attitude.

Regards
Rajen Barua

  - Original Message - 
  From: Barada Sarma 
  To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours



  I have not been able to rationalize what difference would be made by spelling 
the name of the state with different English letters which cannot reproduce the 
Assamese sound anyway. 

  What is important as far as the future is concerned is the historical name 
recognition of unique product like Assam tea. Why should we waste our time and 
energy with completely unproductive issue like english spelling of Assam. 
Useless politicians love such useless endevors. 

  Barada sarma

  Matiur Rahman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I did not quite understand why we need to change the name of our birth 
state Assam to Asom. It is already there since its inception, in Assamese 
language we write Asom always and in international language we write Assam. 
Note that Assam is an internationally recognized trade name. (Assam Tea, 
Assam's one horn Rino etc.). 

In Assam: We are Asomiya, `Asom Bani' (Assamese News Weekly) 
Internationally: We are known as Assamese. `The Assam Tribune'. (The 
English Language daily Newspaper). It exists for more than a century. 

These words are already used since the last many years. 

Matiur Rahman 
== 
Re: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/2839 



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

;( I hope it is not an oxymoron yet) can turn things around: To better manage their affairs of state, to PUNISH bad behavior and REWARD the good.

That is the bottom line.


>My intention is not to take up valuable server space in assam.org by filling up endless >pages arguing with you.

*** That is a noble intent. And I would be the first to acknowledge that I have been a corrosive influence to impressionable minds in this forum. But old habits die hard. My bad.


>Your pompous and quarellsome attitude makes it difficult to carry on a conversation towards any reasonable end.

*** Again a bitter truth. Pomposity is my middle name, quarrelsomeness is my
credo. But it was NOT I who opened this thread with the not-so-pompous "That is the hallmark of an ignorant society. While the ones capable of making a difference only want to reap undue benefits from high office, an equally ignorant populace either goes about just accepting things or just blaming the "centre" - for the centre is a convenient scapegoat.", even though I do agree with the IGNORANCE of the intelligentsia
who cannot figure out why things are how they are.


>I am not surprised by your contention that a Bharat darshan will only worsen your >perception. The reason is that a one-track mind with one-eyed vision cannot be expected to >take in the good and the bad with equal elan. Your preconceived notions will look for >specific oppurtunities to further your biased logic. If ever you do go for such a darshan, I >would suggest that you start from Assam and then go outwards. And please do carry some >freinds along (if you got any) so that we can have some advantage of a difference of >opinion.


*** Thanks for the advice and the philosophical analyses. I will keep them in mind. You are also right about my paucity of friends with the right attitudes. But I make do with those who are struggling with less-than-the-right ones. After all, birds-of-a-feather- you know?


cm


 









At 4:39 PM -0800 12/2/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Dear Sir,
 
Unmitigated Gall - Indeed!
 
Didnt the same dysfunctional system give you your IIT degree (and to many of us here) that enabled you to get your passport to the west?
 
In the course of our conversations have we come accross even one do-able and constructive suggestion from you? Apart from blaming the "colonial" centre and your oft repeated stories about how EVERYTHING is wrong about India, you have little or no ideas. Vague suggestions of "reforms", "change this or that etc" is like advising a cancer patient over telephone from overseas to go and see a good doctor. Its all fine if you are not involved in person, isnt it?
 
And who will lead the charge - is it going to be you?? You seemed to have debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt.
 
What we need is a great visionary who can work within the existing system and who can implement accountability. Such a person with a team thats willing to listen to him can change things in Assam.
 
My intention is not to take up valuable server space in assam.org by filling up endless pages arguing with you. Your pompous and quarellsome attitude makes it difficult to carry on a conversation towards any reasonable end.

 
I am not surprised by your contention that a Bharat darshan will only worsen your perception. The reason is that a one-track mind with one-eyed vision cannot be expected to take in the good and the bad with equal elan. Your preconceived notions will look for specific oppurtunities to further your biased logic. If ever you do go for such a darshan, I would suggest that you start from Assam and then go outwards. And please do carry some freinds along (if you got any) so that we can have some advantage of a difference of opinion.
 
Thanks,
SD

- Original Message From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 3:06:17 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Dear Sandip Dutta:

>That is the hallmark of an ignorant society. While the ones capable of making a >difference only want to reap undue benefits from high office, an equally >ignorant populace either goes about just accepting things or just >blaming the "centre" - for the centre is a convenient scapegoat.


** Was this not where we started?

If so, how do you propose to empower the IGNORANT POPULACE to fight back, demand accountability and get it?

** And would people blame the Center, if it did NOT CONTROL the resources, held the controls over the purse strings, set down the laws and devised the law-enforcement and adjudication mechanisms that do not work?

Who would YOU hold responsible under the circumstances and why?

Obviously you hold the ignorant Assam populace responsible, except you

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

I said nothing.!!
Rest--" Just you wait"
mm


From: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 22:29:06 -0800 (PST)




Hello Mahanta Sir,
 
Here you go again. In this I aggree with you - if only partially. Partially because all schools are not IIMs or Jamunalal Bajaj's and hence the less said about such MBA material, the better. However why brush under the carpet something positive that someone has been trying to do right here in Assam. 
 
At the end of the day, if you debunk something, then suggest something thats even better! No point poking the MBA tradition when companies themselves dont recognize alternatives.
 
Thank you again,
 
SD
 
 
- Original Message From: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 12:00:27 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Dear Mr.Dutta,
Can we add a thing or two?
You go Ga Ga at<You seemed to have debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt. >
Did you read what I forwarded 2 days back<
***



SUCCESS SUTRAS 
 
    HIRE  EDUCATION
 

Dr. Debashis Chaatterji*    (Script manipulation is mine)
 
Many of our professional schools are like employment exchanges.
They provide  ‘Hire Education’.
An Academy that trains young people in hotel management  teaches students in the art of grooming a personality for making a career in the industry. The abiding philosophy is : fake it until you make it.
After that you can show the company your canine teeth.
 
The MBA churning mills also enter into alliances with companies  in a game of mutual deception .The MBA is an acronym for –often without minimum professional acumen. Companies recruit them to keep the MBA education industry on a perpetual growth path. Strangely no MBA school worth its salt can show any positive co-relation between   Success in the MBA programme and Success as a manager.
 
The MBA curriculum is about knowing businesses as a system of knowledge. In that, most good business schools do a fairly commendable job. MBA’s learn to write decent business plans and analyze case studies of successful systems. But Successful Systems are by and large slow to respond to change. Ironically , a manager’s job success is very often about Delivering in spite of the system.  So we now know why many MBA toppers do not succeed as well in their role as Managers.
 
Hire Education is about finding employment. It is unfortunately not about Higher levels of personal effectiveness or professional competence.
 
Before you fire a non- performing manager, think about firing this
 hire education !

 
* Author is professor at IIM  Lucknow
**
 


From: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:39:53 -0800 (PST)




Dear Sir,
 
Unmitigated Gall - Indeed!
 
Didnt the same dysfunctional system give you your IIT degree (and to many of us here) that enabled you to get your passport to the west?
 
In the course of our conversations have we come accross even one do-able and constructive suggestion from you? Apart from blaming the "colonial" centre and your oft repeated stories about how EVERYTHING is wrong about India, you have little or no ideas. Vague suggestions of "reforms", "change this or that etc" is like advising a cancer patient over telephone from overseas to go and see a good doctor. Its all fine if you are not involved in person, isnt it?
 
And who will lead the charge - is it going to be you?? You seemed to have debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt. 
 
What we need is a great visionary who can work within the existing system and who can implement accountability. Such a person with a team thats willing to listen to him can change things in Assam. 
 
My intention is not to take up valuable server space in assam.org by filling up endless pages arguing with you. Your pompous and quarellsome attitude makes it difficult to carry on a conversation towards any reasonable end. 
 
I am not surprised by your contention that a Bharat darshan will only worsen your perception. The reason is that a one-track mind with one-eyed vision cannot be expected to take in the good and the bad with equal elan. Your preconceived notions will look for specific oppurtunities to further your biased logic. If ever you do go for such a darshan, I would suggest that you start from Assam and then go outwards. And please do carry some freinds along (if you got any) so that we can have some advantage of a difference of opinion.
 
Thanks,
SD
-

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

Dear Mr.Dutta,
Can we add a thing or two?
You go Ga Ga at<You seemed to have debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt. >
Did you read what I forwarded 2 days back<
***



SUCCESS SUTRAS 
 
    HIRE  EDUCATION
 

Dr. Debashis Chaatterji*    (Script manipulation is mine)
 
Many of our professional schools are like employment exchanges.
They provide  ‘Hire Education’.
An Academy that trains young people in hotel management  teaches students in the art of grooming a personality for making a career in the industry. The abiding philosophy is : fake it until you make it.
After that you can show the company your canine teeth.
 
The MBA churning mills also enter into alliances with companies  in a game of mutual deception .The MBA is an acronym for –often without minimum professional acumen. Companies recruit them to keep the MBA education industry on a perpetual growth path. Strangely no MBA school worth its salt can show any positive co-relation between   Success in the MBA programme and Success as a manager.
 
The MBA curriculum is about knowing businesses as a system of knowledge. In that, most good business schools do a fairly commendable job. MBA’s learn to write decent business plans and analyze case studies of successful systems. But Successful Systems are by and large slow to respond to change. Ironically , a manager’s job success is very often about Delivering in spite of the system.  So we now know why many MBA toppers do not succeed as well in their role as Managers.
 
Hire Education is about finding employment. It is unfortunately not about Higher levels of personal effectiveness or professional competence.
 
Before you fire a non- performing manager, think about firing this
 hire education !

 
* Author is professor at IIM  Lucknow
**
 


From: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:39:53 -0800 (PST)





Dear Sir,
 
Unmitigated Gall - Indeed!
 
Didnt the same dysfunctional system give you your IIT degree (and to many of us here) that enabled you to get your passport to the west?
 
In the course of our conversations have we come accross even one do-able and constructive suggestion from you? Apart from blaming the "colonial" centre and your oft repeated stories about how EVERYTHING is wrong about India, you have little or no ideas. Vague suggestions of "reforms", "change this or that etc" is like advising a cancer patient over telephone from overseas to go and see a good doctor. Its all fine if you are not involved in person, isnt it?
 
And who will lead the charge - is it going to be you?? You seemed to have debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt. 
 
What we need is a great visionary who can work within the existing system and who can implement accountability. Such a person with a team thats willing to listen to him can change things in Assam. 
 
My intention is not to take up valuable server space in assam.org by filling up endless pages arguing with you. Your pompous and quarellsome attitude makes it difficult to carry on a conversation towards any reasonable end. 
 
I am not surprised by your contention that a Bharat darshan will only worsen your perception. The reason is that a one-track mind with one-eyed vision cannot be expected to take in the good and the bad with equal elan. Your preconceived notions will look for specific oppurtunities to further your biased logic. If ever you do go for such a darshan, I would suggest that you start from Assam and then go outwards. And please do carry some freinds along (if you got any) so that we can have some advantage of a difference of opinion.
 
Thanks,
SD
- Original Message From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 3:06:17 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


Dear Sandip Dutta:

>That is the hallmark of an ignorant society. While the ones capable of making a >difference only want to reap undue benefits from high office, an equally >ignorant populace either goes about just accepting things or just >blaming the "centre" - for the centre is a convenient scapegoat.


** Was this not where we started?

If so, how do you propose to empower the IGNORANT POPULACE to fight back, demand accountability and get it?

** And would people blame the Center, if it did NOT CONTROL the resources, held the controls over the purse strings, set down the laws and devised the law-enforcement and adjudication mechanisms that do not work?

Who would YOU hold responsible under the circumsta

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Dear Sir,

Unmitigated Gall - Indeed!

Didnt the same dysfunctional system give you your IIT degree (and to many of us 
here) that enabled you to get your passport to the west?

In the course of our conversations have we come accross even one do-able and 
constructive suggestion from you? Apart from blaming the "colonial" centre and 
your oft repeated stories about how EVERYTHING is wrong about India, you have 
little or no ideas. Vague suggestions of "reforms", "change this or that etc" 
is like advising a cancer patient over telephone from overseas to go and see a 
good doctor. Its all fine if you are not involved in person, isnt it?

And who will lead the charge - is it going to be you?? You seemed to have 
debunked most others who actually have done lots that can be counted 
materially- for eg. Dr. Hazarika of the Assam Inst. of Mgmt. 

What we need is a great visionary who can work within the existing system and 
who can implement accountability. Such a person with a team thats willing to 
listen to him can change things in Assam. 

My intention is not to take up valuable server space in assam.org by filling up 
endless pages arguing with you. Your pompous and quarellsome attitude makes it 
difficult to carry on a conversation towards any reasonable end. 

I am not surprised by your contention that a Bharat darshan will only worsen 
your perception. The reason is that a one-track mind with one-eyed vision 
cannot be expected to take in the good and the bad with equal elan. Your 
preconceived notions will look for specific oppurtunities to further your 
biased logic. If ever you do go for such a darshan, I would suggest that you 
start from Assam and then go outwards. And please do carry some freinds along 
(if you got any) so that we can have some advantage of a difference of opinion.

Thanks,
SD



- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 3:06:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


Dear Sandip Dutta:


>That is the hallmark of an ignorant society. While the ones capable of making 
>a >difference only want to reap undue benefits from high office, an equally 
>>ignorant populace either goes about just accepting things or just >blaming 
>the "centre" - for the centre is a convenient scapegoat.




** Was this not where we started?


If so, how do you propose to empower the IGNORANT POPULACE to fight back, 
demand accountability and get it?


** And would people blame the Center, if it did NOT CONTROL the resources, held 
the controls over the purse strings, set down the laws and devised the 
law-enforcement and adjudication mechanisms that do not work?


Who would YOU hold responsible under the circumstances and why?


Obviously you hold the ignorant Assam populace responsible, except you could 
not be bothered by the fact that the Indian system of laws and its enforcement
apparatus , that people in a democratic system use to control and fight 
CORRUPTION are dysfunctional, and would not raise your voice for REFORMS, while
criticizing those who do as "-- have nothing alternative to say".


You give a free pass to a colonialist Center, who steals from the many of Assam 
and enriches a few by re-distributing it without exercising its controls over 
how it gets disbursed or giving the ignorant populace the tools of a 
functioning democratic state to exercise their controls.


And we are to think you are a part of that vaunted desi-knowledge-brigade and 
not a part of the IGNORANT POPULACE?


That is delusion, if not unmitigated gall, is how I see it.




>Corruption is endemic in the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too 
>on >an even much greater scale


*** Why not go a step further and include the whole world? After all it is a 
human trait, isn't it? And that is exactly why more intelligent people devised
ways to control it, by PUNISHING bad behavior and REWARDING good, something 
even the ranks of the ignorant populace understand-- as in raising children, 
but which seems to be beyond the grasp of apologists of desi-demokrasy.


Oh we know why! Because they know that India is incapable of change, of reforms.
So they settle for 'doing better' while remaining mired in  desi-governance.
To acknowledge it would pull the rug from under the feet of their argument that 
Assam's disaffections are imaginary, or that they are their own damn fault.




But the people of Assam has no business accepting such half-a**ed propositions.




>The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam they 
>>dont.


*** So how do you propose to CHANGE this? Puja? Prayers? Bribery of the gods? 
Internet Gaali? Or wishful thinking? What?




>Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is it 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

 surpassed it. What went wrong - State Control? The IIT-Guwahati estd. only the other day, on the other hand is doing great? Why? Central control? Why is Tezpur Univ. doing better than GU?.>
 Can we quantify any of the 3 reds? 
My assessment is  these are CONTRARY & VOID.
mm


From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Ram Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:07:27 -0600



Ram,

You  did not address most of the questions I raised.  Should we conclude that you did not address them because you could not :-)?

Anyway, let us examine what you responded to:

>First off, all I said was your solutions were "quasi" NOT Govt. Reforms.

*** From my rudimentary knowledge of Latin, 'quasi' means 'as-if', or implied.  What am I missing here?
What did I propose to earn the doubtful qualification of 'as-if' ?


> What they may be against is what is meant by "reforms" in some quarters:) To some, "reforms" could mean flushing the Indian >Constitution (System) totally 

*** A constitution is a document that enumerates the fundamental political principles of a state or an organization and which is constructed with the advice and consent of the state's or the organization's constituents.  It is a tool, and not an icon, to be set on a pedestal and worshipped as inviolate,  regardless of its usefulness to the people. And its sanctity is a function of how its provisions are upheld by the institutions of that state or the organization.

*** WHAT has the Indian constitution contributed, to earn the sanctity that you bestow to it?  Why should Assam be bound to the dysfunctional state of Indian governance sanctioned by its constitution? There may be elements to the Indian constitution which are useful or beneficial, but what is not, Assam , or anybody else, should not have to be beholden to.

>Essentially, if the intent to institute reforms is to make India stronger & better, then there would be a lot of support for such >moves.

*** Assam needs to look after Assam's interests first, NOT India's. Sure as heck India has not looked after Assam's interests for sixty years since independence. Has it? Can you show us how it has?

    *** What has it done about border protection--stem the tide of the lungi menace, your
    biggest concern as well as Hindu Siletis' and Oxomiya Bamuns' and Mahantas' ?

    *** What has the Indian constitution done to protect human rights in Assam and the entire
    NE? Look at the Outlook Opinion I posted today.
    *** What has the Indian constitution done tom protect the rights of indigenous peoples
    of the NE ?
    *** What has tyhe Indiuan constitution done top protect  or promote REAL democratic values
    in Assam or the NE ?
    *** What has the Induian constitution done to protect minority rights , as of the NE's?
    *** What has the Indian constitution done towards maintaining the rule of law in the NE?
    Can you show me ONE instance of  the constitution's  provisions being respected by
    India in giving a fair trial to all the Assamese that it has incarcerated or killed on
   suspicion of being insurgents?

I can go on and on Ram. The fact is the Indian constitution is not worth the ink it is printed with, as far as the people of  Assam and the NE are concerned.


>Can you tell us which of these states have had their resources under their "control"?

*** It is not my role to look after others' interests. But I do of Assam's. At independence Assam was one of the most economically prosperous regions of India, contributing the  highest amount to the country's
forex reserves. But look where Assam is today. Assam's resources wert stolen by India, at little compensation. What it re-distributed, without exercising its supervision went to enrich a few corrupt ones.


>Why were the educational estds. rudimentary in Assam?

*** For the simple reasons of Indian planners'  ignoring of the region and for not being able to put in place the institutions of democracy that are essential to keep the government  RESPONSIVE to the people's needs. Just because the puppets of Indian governments that were in charge of Assam governance derelict in its duties, does not make ALL of Assam  forever destined to be victims of such dereliction, stripped of their rights to set things right.

Furthermore, effective PRIMARY education is even more fundamental a need for a developing
society's health than higher education. Something that Indian government planning and execution  has been an abysmal failure in.


>Assam can institute its own set of reforms at the state level - no one is going to complain.

***The Assam governments, past and present, selected, elected and constructed in the dysfunctional desi-model and beholden to its derelict institutions failed to effect what they are free to do. However, more fundamentally, the i

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

 surpassed it. What went wrong - State Control? The IIT-Guwahati estd. only the other day, on the other hand is doing great? Why? Central control? Why is Tezpur Univ. doing better than GU?.>
 Can we quantify any of the 3 reds? 
My assessment is  these are CONTRARY & VOID.
mm


From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Ram Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:07:27 -0600



Ram,

You  did not address most of the questions I raised.  Should we conclude that you did not address them because you could not :-)?

Anyway, let us examine what you responded to:

>First off, all I said was your solutions were "quasi" NOT Govt. Reforms.

*** From my rudimentary knowledge of Latin, 'quasi' means 'as-if', or implied.  What am I missing here?
What did I propose to earn the doubtful qualification of 'as-if' ?


> What they may be against is what is meant by "reforms" in some quarters:) To some, "reforms" could mean flushing the Indian >Constitution (System) totally 

*** A constitution is a document that enumerates the fundamental political principles of a state or an organization and which is constructed with the advice and consent of the state's or the organization's constituents.  It is a tool, and not an icon, to be set on a pedestal and worshipped as inviolate,  regardless of its usefulness to the people. And its sanctity is a function of how its provisions are upheld by the institutions of that state or the organization.

*** WHAT has the Indian constitution contributed, to earn the sanctity that you bestow to it?  Why should Assam be bound to the dysfunctional state of Indian governance sanctioned by its constitution? There may be elements to the Indian constitution which are useful or beneficial, but what is not, Assam , or anybody else, should not have to be beholden to.

>Essentially, if the intent to institute reforms is to make India stronger & better, then there would be a lot of support for such >moves.

*** Assam needs to look after Assam's interests first, NOT India's. Sure as heck India has not looked after Assam's interests for sixty years since independence. Has it? Can you show us how it has?

    *** What has it done about border protection--stem the tide of the lungi menace, your
    biggest concern as well as Hindu Siletis' and Oxomiya Bamuns' and Mahantas' ?

  %

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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

 surpassed it. What went wrong - State Control? The IIT-Guwahati estd. only the other day, on the other hand is doing great? Why? Central control? Why is Tezpur Univ. doing better than GU?.>
 Can we quantify any of the 3 reds? 
My assessment is  these are CONTRARY & VOID.
mm


From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Ram Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:07:27 -0600



Ram,

You  did not address most of the questions I raised.  Should we conclude that you did not address them because you could not :-)?

Anyway, let us examine what you responded to:

>First off, all I said was your solutions were "quasi" NOT Govt. Reforms.

*** From my rudimentary knowledge of Latin, 'quasi' means 'as-if', or implied.  What am I missing here?
What did I propose to earn the doubtful qualification of 'as-if' ?


> What they may be against is what is meant by "reforms" in some quarters:) To some, "reforms" could mean flushing the Indian >Constitution (System) totally 

*** A constitution is a document that enumerates the fundamental political principles of a state or an organization and which is constructed with the advice and consent of the state's or the organization's constituents.  It is a tool, and not an icon, to be set on a pedestal and worshipped as inviolate,  regardless of its usefulness to the people. And its sanctity is a function of how its provisions are upheld by the institutions of that state or the organization.

*** WHAT has the Indian constitution contributed, to earn the sanctity that you bestow to it?  Why should Assam be bound to the dysfunctional state of Indian governance sanctioned by its constitution? There may be elements to the Indian constitution which are useful or beneficial, but what is not, Assam , or anybody else, should not have to be beholden to.

>Essentially, if the intent to institute reforms is to make India stronger & better, then there would be a lot of support for such >moves.

*** Assam needs to look after Assam's interests first, NOT India's. Sure as heck India has not looked after Assam's interests for sixty years since independence. Has it? Can you show us how it has?

    *** What has it done about border protection--stem the tide of the lungi menace, your
    biggest concern as well as Hindu Siletis' and Oxomiya Bamuns' and Mahantas' ?

    *** What has the Indian constitution done to protect human rights in Assam and the entire
    NE? Look at the Outlook Opinion I posted today.
    *** What has the Indian constitution done tom protect the rights of indigenous peoples
    of the NE ?
    *** What has tyhe Indiuan constitution done top protect  or promote REAL democratic values
    in Assam or the NE ?
    *** What has the Induian constitution done to protect minority rights , as of the NE's?
    *** What has the Indian constitution done towards maintaining the rule of law in the NE?
    Can you show me ONE instance of  the constitution's  provisions being respected by
    India in giving a fair trial to all the Assamese that it has incarcerated or killed on
   suspicion of being insurgents?

I can go on and on Ram. The fact is the Indian constitution is not worth the ink it is printed with, as far as the people of  Assam and the NE are concerned.


>Can you tell us which of these states have had their resources under their "control"?

*** It is not my role to look after others' interests. But I do of Assam's. At independence Assam was one of the most economically prosperous regions of India, contributing the  highest amount to the country's
forex reserves. But look where Assam is today. Assam's resources wert stolen by India, at little compensation. What it re-distributed, without exercising its supervision went to enrich a few corrupt ones.


>Why were the educational estds. rudimentary in Assam?

*** For the simple reasons of Indian planners'  ignoring of the region and for not being able to put in place the institutions of democracy that are essential to keep the government  RESPONSIVE to the people's needs. Just because the puppets of Indian governments that were in charge of Assam governance derelict in its duties, does not make ALL of Assam  forever destined to be victims of such dereliction, stripped of their rights to set things right.

Furthermore, effective PRIMARY education is even more fundamental a need for a developing
society's health than higher education. Something that Indian government planning and execution  has been an abysmal failure in.


>Assam can institute its own set of reforms at the state level - no one is going to complain.

***The Assam governments, past and present, selected, elected and constructed in the dysfunctional desi-model and beholden to its derelict institutions failed to effect what they are free to do. However, more fundamentally, the i

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

ystem of laws and its enforcement

apparatus , that people in a democratic system use to control and fight CORRUPTION are dysfunctional, and would not raise your voice for REFORMS, while

criticizing those who do as "-- have nothing alternative to say".

 

You give a free pass to a colonialist Center, who steals from the many of Assam and enriches a few by re-distributing it without exercising its controls over how it gets disbursed or giving the ignorant populace
the tools of a functioning democratic state to exercise their controls.

 

And we are to think you are a part of that vaunted desi-knowledge-brigade and not a part of the IGNORANT POPULACE?

 

That is delusion, if not unmitigated gall, is how I see it.

 

 

>Corruption is endemic in the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too on >an even much greater scale

 

*** Why not go a step further and include the whole world? After all it is a human trait, isn't it? And that is exactly why more intelligent people devised

ways to control it, by PUNISHING bad behavior and REWARDING good, something even the ranks of the ignorant populace understand-- as in raising children, but which seems to be beyond the grasp of apologists of desi-demokrasy.


 

Oh we know why! Because they know that India is incapable of change, of reforms.

So they settle for 'doing better' while remaining mired in  desi-governance.

To acknowledge it would pull the rug from under the feet of their argument that Assam's disaffections are imaginary, or that they are their own damn fault.

 

 

But the people of Assam has no business accepting such half-a**ed propositions.

 

 

>The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam they >dont.

 

*** So how do you propose to CHANGE this? Puja? Prayers? Bribery of the gods? Internet Gaali? Or wishful thinking? What?

 

 

>Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is it >they work in a few and dont in others?

 

*** If they do, why Pres. APJAK's calls for eradicating corruption, why the call for a commission to set up a HongKong style corruption fighting mechanism, why the call for STRICT enforcement of laws?


 

The big question he did not address was HOW he would accomplish all that ?

 

 

>Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles, a >bharat-darshan is long overdue for you.

 

*** I quote them to keep those who are either ignorant or are unwilling to see

the real truths about India, in line.

 

Yes, I would like to have a Bharat Darshan. But I don't think it will improve my perceptions of India, only worsen it. And I know Assam quite well, perhaps a whole lot more than most in this forum.


 

 

cm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 2:20 AM -0800 11/30/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:

Dear Sir:



 

***But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues and see if that helps

 

I got all your hints but your problem is that you keep hammering in the same old point and you have nothing alternative to say. You want to change the whole system? You could give us a few hints on what ideas you have and how you plan to go about it? Maybe we can then reflect on your noble thoughts?




 

My intention was never to sully Oxomiya society. Corruption is endemic in the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too on an even much greater scale and they dont follow any version of our desi demokrasy - at least for now. But the question is why in spite of this problem, some states do better than others? In case you dont understand what I mean, ask yourself why so many Assamese have successful lives in Mumbai or Bangalore and would NOT consider returning and its not the other way round?


 

The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam they dont.

 

If you want to understand the difference in the scale of corruption, you might want to compare how a Ticket collector behaves on a train in Kerala or Tamil Nadu compared to one in Assam.

 

Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is it they work in a few and dont in others? Only the local controllers are to blame and no one else.

 

Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles, a bharat-darshan is long overdue for you. You will actually get to see differences in the way supposedly the SAME things work.


 

Rgds,

SD

 

- Original Message From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: SANDIP DUTTA <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
assam@assamnet.orgCc: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:13:39 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Hi:



I did not follow up, hoping you will be able to connect the dots with the

not-so-subtle hints that I posted.



But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues and see if that helps. I will refrain

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

laces - but how is
it >they work in a few and dont in others?


*** If they do, why Pres. APJAK's calls for eradicating corruption, why
the call for a commission to set up a HongKong style corruption fighting
mechanism, why the call for STRICT enforcement of laws?


The big question he did not address was HOW he would accomplish all that ?




>Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles,
a >bharat-darshan is long overdue for you.


*** I quote them to keep those who are either ignorant or are unwilling to
see
the real truths about India, in line.


Yes, I would like to have a Bharat Darshan. But I don't think it will
improve my perceptions of India, only worsen it. And I know Assam quite
well, perhaps a whole lot more than most in this forum.




cm

















At 2:20 AM -0800 11/30/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:

Dear Sir:



***But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more
clues and see if that helps



I got all your hints but your problem is that you keep hammering in the
same old point and you have nothing alternative to say. You want to change
the whole system? You could give us a few hints on what ideas you have and
how you plan to go about it? Maybe we can then reflect on your noble
thoughts?



My intention was never to sully Oxomiya society. Corruption is endemic in
the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too on an even much greater
scale and they dont follow any version of our desi demokrasy - at least for
now. But the question is why in spite of this problem, some states do better
than others? In case you dont understand what I mean, ask yourself why so
many Assamese have successful lives in Mumbai or Bangalore and would NOT
consider returning and its not the other way round?



The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam
they dont.



If you want to understand the difference in the scale of corruption, you
might want to compare how a Ticket collector behaves on a train in Kerala or
Tamil Nadu compared to one in Assam.



Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is
it they work in a few and dont in others? Only the local controllers are to
blame and no one else.



Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles,
a bharat-darshan is long overdue for you. You will actually get to see
differences in the way supposedly the SAME things work.



Rgds,

SD




- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:13:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Hi:


I did not follow up, hoping you will be able to connect the dots with the

not-so-subtle hints that I posted.


But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues
and see if that helps. I will refrain from connecting the dots myself,
because spoon-feeding usually is rejected by those who are sure they know
the answers and are thus not to be patronized by others:



*** WHY is it that all these representatives and their LEADERS,

that the people of Assam elect, throw them out, elect them again,

or elect a whole new slate or party in the fine traditions of

desi-demokrasy; remain UNRESPONSIVE and as our philosophically

endowed explain as "jeyei lankaloi jai, xeyei raabon hoy"

( whoever goes to Lanka, becomes a Ravan)?


There is a serious problem here isn't it?


*** Let us take the often bled-over subject of CORRUPTION that you

raised, to smear the entire Oxomiya society as an uniquely sullied

one and as Ram seconded.


Is corruption hard to notice? If not how come NOTHING happens

about it? Apparently Indian govt. system has ALL the institutional

mechanisms that FUNCTIONING societies USE to investigate,prosecute

adjudicate and punish the guilty with, at least on paper.


And some of our learned friends also tell us that Indian judiciary
is

among the world's best.


So, how come NO ONE gets convicted and get punished?* What seems*

*to be the matter?*


Punishment of the guilty is more than mere thirst for blood,

yen for retribution. It is a* deterrence*. And in civilized

societies it is also creates a social  stigma -- a very effective

 deterrence, because it smears friends, relatives, families as
well.


Deterrence comes in many forms.The most reliable and lasting
deterrence

is moral and ethical compunctions. We know that in western
societies

traditionally FAITH and RELIGION helped inculcate and EDUCATION

that promotes critical inquiry helped spread and firmly embed it

with an intellectual foundation.


But moral a

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

ont in others? Only the local 
controllers are to blame and no one else.


Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper 
articles, a bharat-darshan is long overdue for you. You will 
actually get to see differences in the way supposedly the SAME 
things work.


Rgds,
SD


- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:13:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Hi:

I did not follow up, hoping you will be able to connect the dots with the
not-so-subtle hints that I posted.

But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more 
clues and see if that helps. I will refrain from connecting the dots 
myself, because spoon-feeding usually is rejected by those who are 
sure they know the answers and are thus not to be patronized by 
others:



*** WHY is it that all these representatives and their LEADERS,
that the people of Assam elect, throw them out, elect them again,
or elect a whole new slate or party in the fine traditions of
desi-demokrasy; remain UNRESPONSIVE and as our philosophically
endowed explain as "jeyei lankaloi jai, xeyei raabon hoy"
( whoever goes to Lanka, becomes a Ravan)?

There is a serious problem here isn't it?

*** Let us take the often bled-over subject of CORRUPTION that you
raised, to smear the entire Oxomiya society as an uniquely sullied
one and as Ram seconded.

Is corruption hard to notice? If not how come NOTHING happens
about it? Apparently Indian govt. system has ALL the institutional
mechanisms that FUNCTIONING societies USE to investigate,prosecute
adjudicate and punish the guilty with, at least on paper.

And some of our learned friends also tell us that Indian judiciary is
among the world's best.

So, how come NO ONE gets convicted and get punished? What seems
to be the matter?

Punishment of the guilty is more than mere thirst for blood,
yen for retribution. It is a deterrence. And in civilized
societies it is also creates a social  stigma -- a very effective
 deterrence, because it smears friends, relatives, families as well.

Deterrence comes in many forms.The most reliable and lasting 
deterrence

is moral and ethical compunctions. We know that in western societies
traditionally FAITH and RELIGION helped inculcate and EDUCATION
that promotes critical inquiry helped spread and firmly embed it
with an intellectual foundation.

But moral and ethical compunctions are NEVER enough. I have
argued many times in this forum, not very effectively obviously,
that the state cannot depend entirely on the MORAL code: It
also needs civil and criminal codes, that are ENFORCEABLE. That is why
pronouncements like ABV's -- That 'people should NOT be so greedy',
or APJAK's -- that ' that Manjunath was a righteous man who came
from a righteous family and  we must strive to make
more righteous families.'or MMS' that 'your CMs can make all the
laws in the world, but what will you do with them'  are so
abysmally clueless as corruption fighting steps.

*** You gave us a fairly reasonable account of how the monies spent
in Assam for building roads do not produce the results expected. I
posted Tavleen Singh's columns to demonstrate that Assam is not unique
in this predicament, that it is 'pervasive across the length and
breadth of India'.


It was NOT, as some of you simple-mindedly assume, to absolve
Assam govt. of its sins. Some in the past even made the scatologically
smearing  Oxomiya observation " moi  gu-khaale toi-w khabi neki ?"

So WHY do I cite them?

For a very important reason: To show that nowhere in India
the CORRUPT are/could be held accountable.

*** Now I want YOU to figure that out. Give it a little thought.
I like to think you are more than able to. But I also realize that you
 and others like you, never having seen any different, and 
never paying

 attention elsewhere in the world where they might have lived, failed
to NOTICE why or how.

But again I will give you some clues: Read my note to Dilip Deka and
ex-Chief Secy. JP Rajkhowa on Nov. 18. If you don't have access to
it, let me know, I will be pleased to re-send.

*** I like to think you are sincere in your efforts to understand
the issues. Therefore I hope to receive a response. We don't know
many things. It is NOT a s

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Dear Sir:

***But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues 
and see if that helps

I got all your hints but your problem is that you keep hammering in the same 
old point and you have nothing alternative to say. You want to change the whole 
system? You could give us a few hints on what ideas you have and how you plan 
to go about it? Maybe we can then reflect on your noble thoughts?

My intention was never to sully Oxomiya society. Corruption is endemic in the 
whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too on an even much greater scale 
and they dont follow any version of our desi demokrasy - at least for now. But 
the question is why in spite of this problem, some states do better than 
others? In case you dont understand what I mean, ask yourself why so many 
Assamese have successful lives in Mumbai or Bangalore and would NOT consider 
returning and its not the other way round?

The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam they 
dont. 

If you want to understand the difference in the scale of corruption, you might 
want to compare how a Ticket collector behaves on a train in Kerala or Tamil 
Nadu compared to one in Assam. 

Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is it 
they work in a few and dont in others? Only the local controllers are to blame 
and no one else.  

Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles, a 
bharat-darshan is long overdue for you. You will actually get to see 
differences in the way supposedly the SAME things work.

Rgds,
SD


- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:13:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


Hi:


I did not follow up, hoping you will be able to connect the dots with the
not-so-subtle hints that I posted.


But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues and 
see if that helps. I will refrain from connecting the dots myself, because 
spoon-feeding usually is rejected by those who are sure they know the answers 
and are thus not to be patronized by others:




*** WHY is it that all these representatives and their LEADERS,
that the people of Assam elect, throw them out, elect them again,
or elect a whole new slate or party in the fine traditions of
desi-demokrasy; remain UNRESPONSIVE and as our philosophically
endowed explain as "jeyei lankaloi jai, xeyei raabon hoy"
( whoever goes to Lanka, becomes a Ravan)?


There is a serious problem here isn't it?


*** Let us take the often bled-over subject of CORRUPTION that you
raised, to smear the entire Oxomiya society as an uniquely sullied
one and as Ram seconded.


Is corruption hard to notice? If not how come NOTHING happens
about it? Apparently Indian govt. system has ALL the institutional
mechanisms that FUNCTIONING societies USE to investigate,prosecute
adjudicate and punish the guilty with, at least on paper.


And some of our learned friends also tell us that Indian judiciary is
among the world's best.


So, how come NO ONE gets convicted and get punished? What seems
to be the matter?


Punishment of the guilty is more than mere thirst for blood,
yen for retribution. It is a deterrence. And in civilized
societies it is also creates a social  stigma -- a very effective
 deterrence, because it smears friends, relatives, families as well.


Deterrence comes in many forms.The most reliable and lasting deterrence
is moral and ethical compunctions. We know that in western societies
traditionally FAITH and RELIGION helped inculcate and EDUCATION
that promotes critical inquiry helped spread and firmly embed it
with an intellectual foundation.


But moral and ethical compunctions are NEVER enough. I have
argued many times in this forum, not very effectively obviously,
that the state cannot depend entirely on the MORAL code: It
also needs civil and criminal codes, that are ENFORCEABLE. That is why
pronouncements like ABV's -- That 'people should NOT be so greedy',
or APJAK's -- that ' that Manjunath was a righteous man who came
from a righteous family and  we must strive to make
more righteous families.'or MMS' that 'your CMs can make all the
laws in the world, but what will you do with them'  are so
abysmally clueless as corruption fighting steps.


*** You gave us a fairly reasonable account of how the monies spent
in Assam for building roads do not produce the results expected. I
pos

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

is article?

This is the same point I was trying to make but you said I was 
ignorant (perhaps you didnt get it :-) ). WE too have local Sharad 
Pawars and Thakreys right here in Assam and they do the same things 
with central allocated money. Guwahati's moonscaped "roads" tell the 
same story of corruption and deprivation originating right here at 
home.


Rgds,
Sandip



- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:17:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, 
before I return back to the discussions.


cm




Horrible  Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
  Tavleen Singh

The first convoy of  official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver  spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we  pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I  spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car  filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back  of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.

The coincidence of  encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing  India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and  Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so  they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a  road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past  Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that  people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in  which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar  notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting  Marathi
pride?

Mumbai is Maharashtra's  proudest possession. Any talk of it being
taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise
across political divisions  and yet none of this State's mighty
leaders appears to have paid any  attention to the most basic
requirements of social infrastructure: clean  water, sanitation and
housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of  slums in Chembur
there would have been affordable housing for the poor.

Instead of evil slum  lords there would have been legitimate real
estate companies controlling  the housing market.

As for the dreadful  condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody
to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a
shortage of funds. They  are bad mainly because they have been built
to last no longer than a  single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because
the contractors who build  them are well connected enough to be given
the same contract every year.  You notice this more on the drive from
Mumbai to Pune than on any other  road because when you get onto the
expressway you realize that India can  build roads that do not
collapse with the rain.

Once you get onto the  expressway you drive along the best road in
India that has remained  totally intact despite this year's
unprecedented rainfall. When I  asked a friend in the construction
business why this was so he said,  "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune
expressway was built by responsible  construction companies with
reputations to protect. Usually roads are  built either by faceless
CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big  connections."

So one of the flaws in  the system is that political leaders hand out
major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a
public toilet in a more  sensible country. The reason for this is
that the system we devised for  these things places total emphasis on
cost and none on quality. He who  makes the lowest bid wins the
contract, so to cover his costs he cuts  corners and uses cheap
materials and outdated technology.

He could not care less  if the road he builds does not survive a
single monsoon because he has,  more often than not, a connection
high up enough for him to get the  contract to rebuild the road again
and again. This is true across the  length and breadth of our dear
Bharat Mata which is why we are  internationally renowned for having
the worst roads in the world.

I got off the  expressway at Chinchwad which is one of Maharashtra's
leading  industrial towns. Many of India's biggest manufacturing
companies have  factories here and the municipality is believed to be
one of our richest  but the road I drove down was so narrow and
gutted that I was stuck in  an hour long traffic jam consisting
mainly of massive a

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Dear Sir,

Whats new in this article? 

This is the same point I was trying to make but you said I was ignorant 
(perhaps you didnt get it :-) ). WE too have local Sharad Pawars and Thakreys 
right here in Assam and they do the same things with central allocated money. 
Guwahati's moonscaped "roads" tell the same story of corruption and deprivation 
originating right here at home.

Rgds,
Sandip



- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:17:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, before I return 
back to the discussions.

cm




Horrible  Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
  Tavleen Singh

The first convoy of  official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver  spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we  pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I  spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car  filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back  of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.

The coincidence of  encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing  India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and  Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so  they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a  road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past  Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that  people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in  which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar  notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting  Marathi
pride?

Mumbai is Maharashtra's  proudest possession. Any talk of it being
taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise
across political divisions  and yet none of this State's mighty
leaders appears to have paid any  attention to the most basic
requirements of social infrastructure: clean  water, sanitation and
housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of  slums in Chembur
there would have been affordable housing for the poor.

Instead of evil slum  lords there would have been legitimate real
estate companies controlling  the housing market.

As for the dreadful  condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody
to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a
shortage of funds. They  are bad mainly because they have been built
to last no longer than a  single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because
the contractors who build  them are well connected enough to be given
the same contract every year.  You notice this more on the drive from
Mumbai to Pune than on any other  road because when you get onto the
expressway you realize that India can  build roads that do not
collapse with the rain.

Once you get onto the  expressway you drive along the best road in
India that has remained  totally intact despite this year's
unprecedented rainfall. When I  asked a friend in the construction
business why this was so he said,  "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune
expressway was built by responsible  construction companies with
reputations to protect. Usually roads are  built either by faceless
CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big  connections."

So one of the flaws in  the system is that political leaders hand out
major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a
public toilet in a more  sensible country. The reason for this is
that the system we devised for  these things places total emphasis on
cost and none on quality. He who  makes the lowest bid wins the
contract, so to cover his costs he cuts  corners and uses cheap
materials and outdated technology.

He could not care less  if the road he builds does not survive a
single monsoon because he has,  more often than not, a connection
high up enough for him to get the  contract to rebuild the road again
and again. This is true across the  length and breadth of our dear
Bharat Mata which is why we are  internationally renowned for having
the worst roads in the world.

I got off the  expressway at Chinchwad which is one of Maharashtra's
leading  industrial towns. Many of India's biggest manufacturing
companies have  factories here and the municipality is believed to be
one of our richest  but the road I drove down was so narrow and
gutted that I was stuck in  an hour long traffic jam co

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Ram:


There WAS no confusion. Even though you missed the NOT, I understood 
what you meant. I was not playing with semantics.


Fact is I never suggested Assam govt. is  or was NOT corrupt. It 
always has been.


But you are attempting to deflect dysfunctional GoI's role in 
creating and sustaining an unaccountable system with NO deterrence 
against CORRUPTION, because of which NO state or even GoI cannot 
bring anyone to justice.


To prove I am wrong, all you need to do is point to a few significant 
convictions : Like a minister, an MP, a governor, a military general, 
a secretary, a couple of DCs or a couple of MLAs or a company CEO or 
MD going to prison for corruption, and having to forfeit their 
ill-gotten wealth.


Why can't you?


Looks like it is all chaos and nothing works.


*** You are playing with semantics Ram. I would have hoped you could 
understand I was referring to CORRUPTION.



Unfortunately, the degrees or extent of corruption is very 
important. If it >were insignificant, maybe we could stamp it out in 
a hurry.


*** Again semantics! Did you really not understand I was referring to 
the highly subjective COMPARATIVE degree/extent of corruption between 
Assam and some other mythical corrupt, but less corrupt than Assam 
that you all allude to?



BUT, even IF it were to be so,it is quite immaterial to the solution, 
because the institutions of state that are ESSENTIAL to establish 
that deterrence against corrupt behavior is the same 
everywhere:--dysfunctional desi-govt.



Failing which you are reduced to  waxing inane like APJA Kalam with 
statements like "---Manjunath was a righteous man who came from

a righteous family and  we must strive to make
more righteous families." that Tavleen Singh wrote about.



But, somehow, even within this chaos, some states seem to be doing 
far better than >others.Whatever the yardstick is, all most people 
are asking is why can't Assam at least be >somewhere in the middle.


*** Seems to be doing much better in doing WHAT Ram? In ERADICATING corruption?

Heck, if they are, why don't you tell us WHAT they are doing? Why 
don't you tell Assam Govt. to emulate them? Or write a letter to 
Pres. APJA Kalam telling him that is what he ought to hold up to the 
country?




 Ok, C'da, I was just tring to visualize your solution and have come 
to realize >its as cock-eyed as my solution:)


*** Really? Care to explain WHY it is cockeyed? What is / are the fallacies or
faults with what I point out?


I don't see your prescription ever taking place - you are after all 
going for >the big kahunas - the GOI, the whole system, an 
independent Assam etc.



*** Leave Assam independence out of it. There would not have been 
such a movement if there had been a responsive and effective govt.


I realize all too well why there will be no change where it 
matters--namely meaningful reforms at Delhi. Glad to see  you 
acknowledge you know it too, even though it was worse than pulling 
teeth to get you to say it aloud.


But without FUNCTIONING institutions of state setting up deterrence, 
there will be no change. It will only get worse, unless you are 
banking on the 'Hindu Moral Code' to usher in ethical behavior.





My solution, vague as it is, goes only after the big fish at the local level.


*** So you want AT , Sentinel and AASU to effect corruption 
eradication? Are you serious? What have you been smoking Ram :-)?


c-da
















At 2:21 PM -0600 11/27/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

C'da.

 >You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now 
saying >that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the 
loot?


There was no intent. But looks like I have thrown grammar to the 
winds, and also left out/inserted words that could change the 
meaning of what I was trying to say. Apologizes alround.


Here is what was written:

 >>*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree 
that Sandip >>Dutta's >charge that  " ONLY --- a few Axomiya 
officers and politicians have >>become rich at the >expense of these 
villagers" is at least BASELESS, if not >>entirely malicious, 
designed to >paint Oxomiya disaffections as THEIR own damn >>fault?


C'da - this is a round-robin. No, we can't agree with your assessment.
Are you now saying that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have not 
shared in the loot? Without the active connivence of Assamese 
Officers/politicians

Assam would have been in a much better shape.

The word "NOT" shouldn't have been there. Call it eager fingers, but 
that was in error. All I was asking if that was your opinion - ie. 
giving the Assamese officers/politicos etc a clean chit?


Now to the other parts.

 >The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE 
is >entirely immaterial to the issue at hand.


Unfortunately, the degrees or extent of corruption is very 
important. If it were insignificant, maybe we could stamp it out in 
a hurry. But if it is pervasive - its a different ballgame.


Are these su

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da.


You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now saying >that NO

Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the loot?

There was no intent. But looks like I have thrown grammar to the winds, and
also left out/inserted words that could change the meaning of what I was
trying to say. Apologizes alround.

Here is what was written:
 >>*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree that
Sandip >>Dutta's >charge that  " ONLY --- a few Axomiya officers and
politicians have >>become rich at the >expense of these villagers" is at
least BASELESS, if not >>entirely malicious, designed to >paint Oxomiya
disaffections as THEIR own damn >>fault?

C'da - this is a round-robin. No, we can't agree with your assessment.
Are you now saying that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have *not* shared in
the loot? Without the active connivence of Assamese Officers/politicians
Assam would have been in a much better shape.

The word *"NOT"* shouldn't have been there. Call it eager fingers, but that
was in error. All I was asking if that was your opinion - ie. giving the
Assamese officers/politicos etc a clean chit?

Now to the other parts.

>The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE is >entirely
immaterial to the issue at hand.

Unfortunately, the degrees or extent of corruption is very important. If it
were insignificant, maybe we could stamp it out in a hurry. But if it is
pervasive - its a different ballgame.

Are these subjective? Yes, I think you are right. But there are certain ways
one can measure right direction, wrong direction.
Like some of the questions in my last post. We don't have answer off the
bat, but we could find out.

*>There is NO DETERRENCE of any kind. Not  >ethical/moral/societal, and none

governmental.*


Looks like it is all chaos and nothing works. You are scarring me C'da, was
planning to visit the desh, think I should change my mind? :)

*>You know exactly where the problems lie, but cannot face up to
acknowledging >them because I made it extremely uncomfortable for you to ,
years ago :-), by >connecting it with Assamese disaffections and ULFA's
emergence to the subject. *
**
I have not said that there are no problems. We all know corruption and
bureaucracy affects nearly every facet of life.
But, somehow, even within this chaos, some states seem to be doing far
better than others.
Whatever the yardstick is, all most people are asking is why can't Assam at
least be somewhere in the middle.
And if, as usual, you blame the whole system of governance, then a logical
question would be how come even some states in the NE are faring better?

Lastly,

>Unfortunately you make yourself look clueless, over and over again, by
putting >forth arguments like:

*>>A number of have stated in these columns, that corrupt govt. or
officers can be >>dealt with a coordinated effort by the media, RTI, people
etc. Now, the results >>may not be immediate as one would wish, but a
constant and frequent exposure >>of >corrupt officials and politicians would
hit home ultimately*.

part of your response to Bhuban da:

*The lesson therefore is that unless and until Assam reforms its
governmental systems by exorcising the demons of dysfunctional
desi-governaqnce, there is not a chance anything will change.*
**
Ok, C'da, I was just tring to visualize your solution and have come to
realize its as cock-eyed as my solution:) :)

I don't see your prescription ever taking place - you are after all going
for the big kahunas - the GOI, the whole system, an independent Assam etc.

My solution, vague as it is, goes only after the big fish at the local
level. There is a good chance, if Assamese want it, they can change the way
things are run, at least in Assam. After that is done, I will join you and
others in condemning the Center for all other problems :)

--Ram





On 11/27/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Ram:


The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE is entirely
immaterial to the issue at hand.


Your assertions on the matter is entirely subjective. You or I cannot
prove or disprove the extent or degree of corruption. More credible and
knowledgeable people than yourself or SD will dispute your assertions.


But that is not necessary. We both know that corruption is PERVASIVE and
deeply rooted ALL OVER INDIA. When Prez, Kalam was agonizing over it last
week, he did not pick Assam. It was about India.




You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now saying that NO
Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the loot?
*
*
Can you show us when I EVER made such a comment? At no time have I ever
made that assertion  or even implied it.


But the real issue is Indian governance: Its inability to stem this ever
worsening phenomenon. The fact is that desi-demokrasy is so thoroughly
broken that it has NO institution of state to charge-sheet, investigate,
adjudicate
and punish the guilty.* There is NO DETERRENCE of any kind. Not
ethical/moral/societal,

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Ram:

The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE is entirely 
immaterial to the issue at hand.


Your assertions on the matter is entirely subjective. You or I cannot 
prove or disprove the extent or degree of corruption. More credible 
and knowledgeable people than yourself or SD will dispute your 
assertions.


But that is not necessary. We both know that corruption is PERVASIVE 
and deeply rooted ALL OVER INDIA. When Prez, Kalam was agonizing over 
it last week, he did not pick Assam. It was about India.



You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now saying that NO 
Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the loot?


Can you show us when I EVER made such a comment? At no time have I 
ever made that assertion  or even implied it.


But the real issue is Indian governance: Its inability to stem this 
ever worsening phenomenon. The fact is that desi-demokrasy is so 
thoroughly broken that it has NO institution of state to 
charge-sheet, investigate, adjudicate
and punish the guilty. There is NO DETERRENCE of any kind. Not 
ethical/moral/societal, and none governmental.



Question is do you or SD know that?

I don't know about SD, he may truly be ignorant. But I don't believe 
you to be so for a moment :-). You know exactly where the problems 
lie, but cannot face up to acknowledging them because I made it 
extremely uncomfortable for you to , years ago :-), by connecting it 
with Assamese disaffections and ULFA's emergence to the subject.


Unfortunately you make yourself look clueless, over and over again, 
by putting forth arguments like:


A number of have stated in these columns, that corrupt govt. or 
officers can be >dealt with a coordinated effort by the media, RTI, 
people etc. Now, the results >may not be immediate as one would 
wish, but a constant and frequent exposure of >corrupt officials and 
politicians would hit home ultimately.



That is your choice, and my pleasure :-).

But you, and others who make such arguments are NOT contributing 
anything to a solution, by refusing to acknowledge the problem.


c-da

PS: I will send you another TS article in the next post.











At 10:13 AM -0600 11/27/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

C'da,

Thanks for the posting. Tavleen always does a good job of bringing 
these issues to the forefront - and legitimately so.


TS correctly zeroes in on corruption as the root cause. But even TS 
will agree that there are stark differences even in this corruption 
when it comes to Assam and a state like Maharastra.


Questions for you and Tavleen:

Will Maharastra tolerate frequent and long drawn out load sheddings?
How many villages in Maharastra are electrified (as compared to Assam)
How many driveable road miles are there in Assam and Maharastra
What % of the roads in Maharastra are absolutely deplorable (again 
as compared to Assam).


No, these are just questions to ponder, and most of us know the 
answers. Comparing problems in Mumbai to those in Assam is like 
comparing NYC to Mumbai.


It is mind-boggling as to why we have such a high degree of 
tolerance toward large scale corruption that is throttling the very 
life out of the state?
Basically, it does not even matter if the rest of the states are 
more corrupt than Assam. They may be able to afford that luxury, 
Assam cannot.


--Ram


On 11/27/06, Chan Mahanta 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, 
before I return back to the discussions.


cm




Horrible  Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
  Tavleen Singh

The first convoy of  official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver  spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we  pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I  spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car  filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back  of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.

The coincidence of  encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing  India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and  Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so  they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a  road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past  Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that  people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in  which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar  notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting  Marathi
pride?

Mumbai is Maharashtra's  proudest po

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,

Thanks for the posting. Tavleen always does a good job of bringing these
issues to the forefront - and legitimately so.

TS correctly zeroes in on corruption as the root cause. But even TS will
agree that there are stark differences even in this corruption when it comes
to Assam and a state like Maharastra.

Questions for you and Tavleen:

Will Maharastra tolerate frequent and long drawn out load sheddings?
How many villages in Maharastra are electrified (as compared to Assam)
How many driveable road miles are there in Assam and Maharastra
What % of the roads in Maharastra are absolutely deplorable (again as
compared to Assam).

No, these are just questions to ponder, and most of us know the answers.
Comparing problems in Mumbai to those in Assam is like comparing NYC to
Mumbai.

It is mind-boggling as to why we have such a high degree of tolerance toward
large scale corruption that is throttling the very life out of the state?
Basically, it does not even matter if the rest of the states are more
corrupt than Assam. They may be able to afford that luxury, Assam cannot.

--Ram


On 11/27/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, before I
return back to the discussions.

cm




Horrible  Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
  Tavleen Singh

The first convoy of  official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver  spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we  pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I  spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car  filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back  of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.

The coincidence of  encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing  India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and  Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so  they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a  road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past  Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that  people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in  which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar  notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting  Marathi
pride?

Mumbai is Maharashtra's  proudest possession. Any talk of it being
taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise
across political divisions  and yet none of this State's mighty
leaders appears to have paid any  attention to the most basic
requirements of social infrastructure: clean  water, sanitation and
housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of  slums in Chembur
there would have been affordable housing for the poor.

Instead of evil slum  lords there would have been legitimate real
estate companies controlling  the housing market.

As for the dreadful  condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody
to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a
shortage of funds. They  are bad mainly because they have been built
to last no longer than a  single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because
the contractors who build  them are well connected enough to be given
the same contract every year.  You notice this more on the drive from
Mumbai to Pune than on any other  road because when you get onto the
expressway you realize that India can  build roads that do not
collapse with the rain.

Once you get onto the  expressway you drive along the best road in
India that has remained  totally intact despite this year's
unprecedented rainfall. When I  asked a friend in the construction
business why this was so he said,  "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune
expressway was built by responsible  construction companies with
reputations to protect.* Usually roads are  built either by faceless*
*CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big  connections."*

So one of the flaws in  the system is that political leaders hand out
major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a
public toilet in a more  sensible country. The reason for this is
that the system we devised for  these things places total emphasis on
cost and none on quality. He who  makes the lowest bid wins the
contract, so to cover his costs he cuts  corners and uses cheap
materials and outdated technology.

He could not care less  if the road he builds does not survive a
single monsoon because he has,  more often than not, a connection
high up enough for him to get the  contract to rebuild the road again
and again.* This is true across the  length and breadth of our 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, 
before I return back to the discussions.


cm




Horrible  Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
  Tavleen Singh

The first convoy of  official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver  spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we  pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I  spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car  filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back  of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.

The coincidence of  encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing  India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and  Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so  they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a  road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past  Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that  people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in  which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar  notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting  Marathi
pride?

Mumbai is Maharashtra's  proudest possession. Any talk of it being
taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise
across political divisions  and yet none of this State's mighty
leaders appears to have paid any  attention to the most basic
requirements of social infrastructure: clean  water, sanitation and
housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of  slums in Chembur
there would have been affordable housing for the poor.

Instead of evil slum  lords there would have been legitimate real
estate companies controlling  the housing market.

As for the dreadful  condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody
to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a
shortage of funds. They  are bad mainly because they have been built
to last no longer than a  single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because
the contractors who build  them are well connected enough to be given
the same contract every year.  You notice this more on the drive from
Mumbai to Pune than on any other  road because when you get onto the
expressway you realize that India can  build roads that do not
collapse with the rain.

Once you get onto the  expressway you drive along the best road in
India that has remained  totally intact despite this year's
unprecedented rainfall. When I  asked a friend in the construction
business why this was so he said,  "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune
expressway was built by responsible  construction companies with
reputations to protect. Usually roads are  built either by faceless
CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big  connections."

So one of the flaws in  the system is that political leaders hand out
major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a
public toilet in a more  sensible country. The reason for this is
that the system we devised for  these things places total emphasis on
cost and none on quality. He who  makes the lowest bid wins the
contract, so to cover his costs he cuts  corners and uses cheap
materials and outdated technology.

He could not care less  if the road he builds does not survive a
single monsoon because he has,  more often than not, a connection
high up enough for him to get the  contract to rebuild the road again
and again. This is true across the  length and breadth of our dear
Bharat Mata which is why we are  internationally renowned for having
the worst roads in the world.

I got off the  expressway at Chinchwad which is one of Maharashtra's
leading  industrial towns. Many of India's biggest manufacturing
companies have  factories here and the municipality is believed to be
one of our richest  but the road I drove down was so narrow and
gutted that I was stuck in  an hour long traffic jam consisting
mainly of massive articulated  lorries with names like MAERSK painted
on their sides. The eternal clash between the new 'emerging' economy
and our ancient, socialist  infrastructure.

The clash would not exist if only we  could get our political leaders
to understand that unless they put  infrastructure (both social and
physical) at the top of their list of  priorities we will still be
talking about our 'potential' to be an  economic superpower fifty
years from now. If we can just build the roads  and do something
about the appalling state of our cities and towns we  can start
making our economic superpower dream a reality in the next  five
years. These were the gloomy thoughts of your humble columnist as I
drove pa

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Dear Sir,

Before making allegations all the time against desi-demokrasy, centre, et. al, 
please take time to consider how certain things work at ground level. 

Centre gives money for projects against certain high level gurantees. Then its 
upto the state to execute the same. Consider this - a road needs to be built 
and a tender needs to be taken out. The STATE minister in charge already has 
some interested parties in mind and has already made up his mind to give out 
the contracts to his preffered candidates only. Once the candidates get the 
contracts, they will organize locals to supply the raw materials like stones, 
sand, bitumin etc. Again there will be some deals to profit everyone. If a 
whistleblower screams, he knows the consequences. At the end of it, you will 
have a road that will be built but will be reduced to moonscape by the next 
monsoon. You cannot change this because many of our local bureaucrats and 
politicians are involved NECK DEEP in it and thats the only way they will allow 
things to work. 

Occasionally contracts are given out to reputed players like L&T, Gammon India 
etc. but they are forced to succumb to dictats from local pressure groups and 
are not allowed the freedom to do the work the way they want. 

If the CAG is vicious, do we have any parellel body at state level who can 
gurantee the same kind of checks?

Are you aware of how the MIDC (Maharastra Industria Dev Corp), a state 
government body had raised 1200 crores from the Market to fund the new 
expressway between Mumbai and Pune. Its one of their showcase projects. No 
marks for guessing if the Assam government has commitment to envisage such 
projects and see them through conclusion.

A state needs workable controls in place to ensure things work. If even its 
ministers elected by the STATE are out to make money, then its no point even 
mentioning the CENTRE. 

Rgds,
Sandip

- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: "Saikia, Hrishikesh IN BLR SISL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Rajen & Ajanta Barua 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:24:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


>Contractors and consultants come to make money - i.e profit.


*** No one would hold a consultant or a contractor guilty of anything IF they 
are RENDERING the services or SUPPLYING the goods they are paid to. And if the 
services are rendered and goods supplied for compensation dispensed, then it 
would be VISIBLE. Or so one might expect. Thus there will be no cause for 
complaint.


The cause for complaints arise when the services or the goods are nowhere to be 
found, or are sub-standard, while the monies are gone.
I did NOT make the charge that "--a few Axomiya officers and politicians have 
become rich at the expense of these villagers."


No doubt they have. But to charge ONLY "-- a few AXomiya --" of the crimes, 
while letting the really big fish off the hook belies an agenda designed to
make the political point that the  Center's dereliction of its duties is NOT an 
issue, while Oxomiya misdeeds are the REAL reasons for Oxomiya disaffections.


That is what I pointed out.




>This is the way our Ulfa categorizes ALL Non-assamese into an "Indian" 
>category >vs. the locals. Is that why you mentioned "Indian" consultants.




*** I don't know how ULFA categorizes them, but yes, I did mention "Indian"
contractors -- because they are indeed some of the biggest and most important 
beneficiaries of desi-demokrasy's  unaccountable 
steal-from-the-many-to-enrich-a-few policy that Assam and its contiguous 
regions have reeled under since independence. It is quite irrelevant whether it 
has been intentional or merely an unintended outcome. But it has been the NET 
result and that is what counts.




I will however remain corrected, on this issue, as well as the others that I 
responded to earlier, if someone can present a more credible  explanation.






cm








At 4:32 AM -0800 11/24/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Contractors and consultants come to make money - i.e profit. They are not here 
to do charity. There is a difference between rendering a service to make profit 
vs. stealing money thats not yours. Even if beparis stole money in the name of 
profit, there would have been some of our local people within the system who 
got a cut and aided them in the process.
 
Most of us are abroad for the same reason of making money I guess. In that 
case, can I accuse you of stealing an American's job and giving it to yourself 
(i.e. exploitation). What justification would you have in case tomorrow there 
were to be a backlash against all Indians in America? Would you plead and cry 
to say you that you came in legally and did part of your education there and 
became a na

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,

>I think I have forced you off the road completely. You are making wild

assertions now.


Hehe! But sometimes some of these assertions do stick :)

>I won't question your hearing, but just consider this: If the rumor has

any substance, what does it do to the image of that vicious Central
watch-dog CAG ?


This has more to with local contracts (PWD, ASEB, Flood Control , etc) than
with the likes of CAG. All state govt. entities and managed, controlled and
work order distributed to to 'locals'.

>*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree that
Sandip Dutta's >charge that  " ONLY --- a few Axomiya officers and
politicians have become rich at the >expense of these villagers" is at least
BASELESS, if not entirely malicious, designed to >paint Oxomiya
disaffections as THEIR own damn fault?

C'da - this is a round-robin. No, we can't agree with your assessment.
Are you now saying that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in
the loot?
Without the active connivence of Assamese Officers/politicians
Assam would have been in a much better shape.


# These big Indian beneficiaries indulge in corrupt practices  >   ONLY

because Assam govt. officials do;

Are we playing chicken and egg stuff here? You would like to portray
Assamese officers/politicians as pure as the driven snow - and if perchance
they are found to be corrupt, it is the fault of the Delhiwallas or some
other alien.

All I said was - big businesses will try every trick to capture a contract
or two. (It happens here too). Now, the ball is really in the court of
officials and politicians in Assam to protect what is Assamese and protect
Assamese interests and NOT succumb to wiles of the Delhi wallas? If they do?
what does that make Assamese look like.

Further, these same companies also operate in the same fashion in other
states. (I know you don't like to hear this).How is it that these other
states are able to make sure that the people of the state can look forward
to some residuals?

>that by NOT RISING AGAINST and abetting Assam Govt. corruption by default,
the >entire Oxomiya 'jaati' is also guilty of incubating and spreading its
own disaffections. >That it is their own damn fault, even though YOU could
not, or would not TELL us >WHAT they could do to change things under the
prevailing system

A number of have stated in these columns, that corrupt govt. or officers can
be dealt with a coordinated effort by the media, RTI, people etc. Now, the
results may not be immediate as one would wish, but a constant and frequent
exposure of corrupt officials and politicians would hit home ultimately.

What most of us take issue is that all the states deal with the same GOI and
same sets of rules or impediments, then why is that Assam happens to be in
far worse shape than most other states (including the NE states).


# That Assam is unique in its depravity -- that the corruption of the

people of Assam is >almost complete, and thus they have forfeited the right
to complain about Indians >stealing them blind.

I think the common folks in Assam are just like the common folks elsewhere.
In Assam, many politicians/businesses and bureaucrats have found a unique
path to this gravvy train.
So, it will be up to middle class intelligentisia and student orgs. to take
up this battle against corruption and put Assam on a positive path.

BTW: You can still complain about "Indian" stealing them blind. Fortunately,
there are many Assamese who do think they are Indians. :)

--Ram






On 11/25/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Ram:


I think I have forced you off the road completely. You are making wild
assertions now.



>I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.

>That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the paperwork
>though)




I won't question your hearing, but just consider this: If the rumor has
any substance, what does it do to the image of that vicious Central
watch-dog CAG ?
BK will be very disappointed.


I would refrain from taking all the other assertions apart. And I fess up
to my culpability here for taking you there. My bad :-)!




Now then, let us see if we can wrap this round of debates up with some
conclusions:


*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree that
Sandip Dutta's charge that  " ONLY --- a few Axomiya officers and
politicians have become rich at the expense of these villagers" is at least
BASELESS, if not entirely malicious, designed to paint Oxomiya disaffections
as THEIR own damn fault?


And thus, YOUR attempt to defend SD's charge  also is without merit?




*** However you DID bring out certain 'mitigating circumstances' to MY
addendum that Indian big contractors / consultants are the larger
beneficiaries of Assam and Indian govt. corruption; namely:


# These big Indian beneficiaries indulge in corrupt practices
ONLY because Assam govt. officials do; that they are helpless
victims
FORCED to REACT to the corrupt Assamese, 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

Mukul da,


So also all NRA's- unaffected by the total hopelessness of the >Indian

Colonial misrule of Oxom.

NRAs are affected in the sense they too have friends & relatives at least.

Do something-- Unitedly!


But NRAs must first agree with your assumption that Oxom is under a "Indian
colonial misrule". Most of us consider ourselves as having Indian roots and
that Assam is a part of India.

--Ram

On 11/25/06, mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 *<*
To:  *"Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*
CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:  *Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours*
Date:  *Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:01:51 -0600*

C'da,

 >>Assam contracts are often given to 'non-Assamese' contractors for
several >reasons.

 >*** That is NOT the issue.

 Why so?  Don't we need to know why Assam is forced to look elsewhere for
contractors?

 >The issue is HOW they get them.

 Companies like Larsen & Tubro or any of the big-wigs in India go thru the
same process of bidding in every state.
 They also have competition (amongst themselves). They also are willing to
pay under the table if required to acquire a contract.

 The question comes up: Are there vulnerable Axomia chief enggs? The
problem in Assam in particular is a little different.
 It is highly possible for a project not done at all but the allocated
money (as much as possible) eaten up.

 I still go back to basics - if all the controls are with the Assamese,
why do we fall back into forgiving ourselves
 - not our fault, but it is the fault of those corrupt Larsen or Brakes
India guys. We were forced to take that bribe (it was just too much to
resist).

 > If they get them thru the sheer power of the legendary Indian
>meritocracy, then "--few Axomiya officers--" , much less the >entire
Oxomiya jaati -- would not get to keep that 40 of the 60/40 >arrangement,
and would not rile the likes of Sandip Dutta or >yourself, would it?

 >*** Finally, what is the origin of the 30/70, changed to 40/60, and now
probably running at 50/50 ? Is it also an uniquely >Oxomiya invention ?

 You are right, they probably work with a 30/70 rate (in Assam, 70 being
the "take" or cost of doing buisiness).
 Years ago, I read this report: It listed Assam as being the most
expensive state to trade. That is one reason, the prices are higher (and
service qualities the lowest possible).
 No, the Oxomiyas did not invent these ratios - but looks like they have
perfected it. I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.
 That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the paperwork
though)

 >>The solution is for Assamese themselves to want a change, they must be
able to >define corruption as something that is >>detrimental to the state,
and not >something that just happens. The solution lies firmly with the
Assamese with >not wanting >>to tolerate anything that will hurt their
state.


 >*** You disappoint me so Ram! Is this any answer ? Even an utterly
'hwja', /bhwda',  'dhwdor-posola', 'ignorant villager' could do >better than
that :-).

 C'da - if the Assamese themselves do not want it and they put forward the
'upai nai', 'ki nu korim' or 'kopal ot ji likha' solutions for all these,
thenall they have done is give their blessings to corrupt practices all over
Assam. They have made it a norm

 --Ram

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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

<
So also all NRA's- unaffected by the total hopelessness of the Indian Colonial misrule of Oxom.
Do something-- Unitedly!
mm




From:  "Ram Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC:  assam@assamnet.orgSubject:  Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:01:51 -0600

C'da,

 


>>Assam contracts are often given to 'non-Assamese' contractors for several >reasons.


 


>*** That is NOT the issue.  

 

Why so?  Don't we need to know why Assam is forced to look elsewhere for contractors?

 

>The issue is HOW they get them.

 

Companies like Larsen & Tubro or any of the big-wigs in India go thru the same process of bidding in every state.

They also have competition (amongst themselves). They also are willing to pay under the table if required to acquire a contract.

 

The question comes up: Are there vulnerable Axomia chief enggs? The problem in Assam in particular is a little different.

It is highly possible for a project not done at all but the allocated money (as much as possible) eaten up.

 

I still go back to basics - if all the controls are with the Assamese, why do we fall back into forgiving ourselves 

- not our fault, but it is the fault of those corrupt Larsen or Brakes India guys. We were forced to take that bribe (it was just too much to resist).

 

> If they get them thru the sheer power of the legendary Indian >meritocracy, then "--few Axomiya officers--" , much less the >entire Oxomiya jaati -- would not get to keep that 40 of the 60/40 >arrangement, and would not rile the likes of Sandip Dutta or >yourself, would it? 


 


>*** Finally, what is the origin of the 30/70, changed to 40/60, and now probably running at 50/50 ? Is it also an uniquely >Oxomiya invention ?


 

You are right, they probably work with a 30/70 rate (in Assam, 70 being the "take" or cost of doing buisiness).

Years ago, I read this report: It listed Assam as being the most expensive state to trade. That is one reason, the prices are higher (and service qualities the lowest possible).

No, the Oxomiyas did not invent these ratios - but looks like they have perfected it. I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.

That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the paperwork though)

 


>>The solution is for Assamese themselves to want a change, they must be able to >define corruption as something that is >>detrimental to the state, and not >something that just happens. The solution lies firmly with the Assamese with >not wanting >>to tolerate anything that will hurt their state. 


 

>*** You disappoint me so Ram! Is this any answer ? Even an utterly 'hwja', /bhwda',  'dhwdor-posola', 'ignorant villager' could do >better than that :-).

 

C'da - if the Assamese themselves do not want it and they put forward the 'upai nai', 'ki nu korim' or 'kopal ot ji likha' solutions for all these, thenall they have done is give their blessings to corrupt practices all over Assam. They have made it a norm 


 

--Ram




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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Ram:

I think I have forced you off the road completely. You are making 
wild assertions now.



 >I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.
That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the 
paperwork >though)



I won't question your hearing, but just consider this: If the rumor 
has any substance, what does it do to the image of that vicious 
Central watch-dog CAG ?

BK will be very disappointed.

I would refrain from taking all the other assertions apart. And I 
fess up to my culpability here for taking you there. My bad :-)!



Now then, let us see if we can wrap this round of debates up with 
some conclusions:


*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree that 
Sandip Dutta's charge that  " ONLY --- a few Axomiya officers and 
politicians have become rich at the expense of these villagers" is at 
least BASELESS, if not entirely malicious, designed to paint Oxomiya 
disaffections as THEIR own damn fault?


And thus, YOUR attempt to defend SD's charge  also is without merit?


*** However you DID bring out certain 'mitigating circumstances' to 
MY addendum that Indian big contractors / consultants are the larger 
beneficiaries of Assam and Indian govt. corruption; namely:


# These big Indian beneficiaries indulge in corrupt practices
ONLY because Assam govt. officials do; that they are helpless victims
FORCED to REACT to the corrupt Assamese, in the same vein of Nerobhai
Modi's invocation of Newton's Third Law, which portrays Gujaratis as
inanimate objects that REACTED to Godhra 'incitement'.

# That by NOT RISING AGAINST and abetting Assam Govt. corruption by
default, the entire Oxomiya 'jaati' is also guilty of incubating
and spreading its own disaffections. That it is their own damn fault,
even though YOU could not, or would not TELL us WHAT they could do
to change things under the prevailing system.

# That Assam is unique in its depravity -- that the corruption
of the people of Assam is almost complete, and thus they have forfeited
the right to complain about Indians stealing them blind.


I will let readers make their own judgements about whether the above 
'mitigating circumstances' are truly mitigating or actually damning 
to the object of your

defense-- the Indian govt..


c-da :-).












At 3:01 PM -0600 11/24/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

C'da,

 >>Assam contracts are often given to 'non-Assamese' contractors for 
several >reasons.


 >*** That is NOT the issue.

Why so?  Don't we need to know why Assam is forced to look elsewhere 
for contractors?


 >The issue is HOW they get them.

Companies like Larsen & Tubro or any of the big-wigs in India go 
thru the same process of bidding in every state.
They also have competition (amongst themselves). They also are 
willing to pay under the table if required to acquire a contract.


The question comes up: Are there vulnerable Axomia chief enggs? The 
problem in Assam in particular is a little different.
It is highly possible for a project not done at all but the 
allocated money (as much as possible) eaten up.


I still go back to basics - if all the controls are with the 
Assamese, why do we fall back into forgiving ourselves
- not our fault, but it is the fault of those corrupt Larsen or 
Brakes India guys. We were forced to take that bribe (it was just 
too much to resist).


 > If they get them thru the sheer power of the legendary 
Indian >meritocracy, then "--few Axomiya officers--" , much less 
the >entire Oxomiya jaati -- would not get to keep that 40 of the 
60/40 >arrangement, and would not rile the likes of Sandip Dutta 
or >yourself, would it?


 >*** Finally, what is the origin of the 30/70, changed to 40/60, 
and now probably running at 50/50 ? Is it also an uniquely >Oxomiya 
invention ?


You are right, they probably work with a 30/70 rate (in Assam, 70 
being the "take" or cost of doing buisiness).
Years ago, I read this report: It listed Assam as being the most 
expensive state to trade. That is one reason, the prices are higher 
(and service qualities the lowest possible).
No, the Oxomiyas did not invent these ratios - but looks like they 
have perfected it. I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.
That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the 
paperwork though)


 >>The solution is for Assamese themselves to want a change, they 
must be able to >define corruption as something that 
is >>detrimental to the state, and not >something that just happens. 
The solution lies firmly with the Assamese with >not wanting >>to 
tolerate anything that will hurt their state.



 >*** You disappoint me so Ram! Is this any answer ? Even an utterly 
'hwja', /bhwda',  'dhwdor-posola', 'ignorant villager' could 
do >better than that :-).


C'da - if the Assamese themselves do not want it and they put 
forward the 'upai nai', 'ki nu korim' or 'kopal ot ji likha' 
solutions for all these, the

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,

>>Assam contracts are often given to 'non-Assamese' contractors for several

reasons.


>*** That is NOT the issue.

Why so?  Don't we need to know why Assam is forced to look elsewhere for
contractors?


The issue is HOW they get them.


Companies like Larsen & Tubro or any of the big-wigs in India go thru the
same process of bidding in every state.
They also have competition (amongst themselves). They also are willing to
pay under the table if required to acquire a contract.

The question comes up: Are there vulnerable Axomia chief enggs? The problem
in Assam in particular is a little different.
It is highly possible for a project not done at all but the allocated money
(as much as possible) eaten up.

I still go back to basics - if all the controls are with the Assamese, why
do we fall back into forgiving ourselves
- not our fault, but it is the fault of those corrupt Larsen or Brakes India
guys. We were forced to take that bribe (it was just too much to resist).


If they get them thru the sheer power of the legendary Indian
meritocracy, then "--few Axomiya officers--" , much less the >entire

Oxomiya jaati -- would not get to keep that 40 of the 60/40 >arrangement,
and would not rile the likes of Sandip Dutta or >yourself, would it?

>*** Finally, what is the origin of the 30/70, changed to 40/60, and now
probably running at 50/50 ? Is it also an uniquely >Oxomiya invention ?

You are right, they probably work with a 30/70 rate (in Assam, 70 being the
"take" or cost of doing buisiness).
Years ago, I read this report: It listed Assam as being the most expensive
state to trade. That is one reason, the prices are higher (and service
qualities the lowest possible).
No, the Oxomiyas did not invent these ratios - but looks like they have
perfected it. I have heard, in many projects, 0/100.
That is absolutely nothing gets done (everything is done in the paperwork
though)

>>The solution is for Assamese themselves to want a change, they must be
able to >define corruption as something that is >>detrimental to the state,
and not >something that just happens. The solution lies firmly with the
Assamese with >not wanting >>to tolerate anything that will hurt their
state.



*** You disappoint me so Ram! Is this any answer ? Even an utterly 'hwja',

/bhwda',  'dhwdor-posola', 'ignorant villager' could do >better than that
:-).

C'da - if the Assamese themselves do not want it and they put forward the
'upai nai', 'ki nu korim' or 'kopal ot ji likha' solutions for all these,
thenall they have done is give their blessings to corrupt practices all over
Assam. They have made it a norm

--Ram
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Dear BK:

Thanks for educating us with your knowledge of the 'system'.

If I didn't know any better I might have said " Wow! It is a precision crafted
machinery, with all the checks and balances and oversights required 
to run an enlightened democracy."



So, what seems to be the matter? Why so much angst, so much 
disaffection, and the ship of state adrift in the doldrums?



Could it be that the REALITY is far different from what is on paper? 
That the precision crafted machinery really does not function? That 
"IF only--", "provided --" , "should --", "if effectively--", "can 
help--" and other such qualifications merely attempt to hide the 
sordid truths about that reality?


Best regards.

c






At 9:54 AM -0500 11/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Language: en

In a message dated 23/11/2006 10:54:56 GMT Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


5 decades of exploitation yeah - but we need to know where all the 
central money is disappearing and how a few Axomiya officers and 
politicians have become rich at the expense of these villagers.


Its very easy. Siphon off all the money and then tell the villagers 
that the Centre is neglecting. Poor villagers dont have the means to 
question or verify. Neither does the centre have a band of 
rabble-rousers who will answer all the allegations because they 
themselves are unsure of where the money is actually going.



As far as I know the Centre's money is paid in phases as the work 
progresses. At times the Centre never pays the allotted funds 
because of non-fulfilment of the conditions attached. It is, 
however, possible that some money is drawn by submitting false 
certificates that certain work was completed.




The Comptroller & Auditor General of India and the Accountant 
Generals of the States audit the accounts and report to the Public 
Accounts Committees both at the Centre and the States. These reports 
are very  crucial, though  the Auditors are not in a position to go 
through the entire accounts; they check only a part of it. Besides, 
the departments themselves have in-house accounting systems.




Perhaps a  member of the All India Audit & Accounts officer could 
enlighten us on this subject. The other day there was some interest 
shown in the All India Services; now I remember the Accounts & Audit 
Services is another category. I hope there are a few Assamese IAAS 
officers  too.




In the West there are special cells in the Police department to 
check accounting frauds. I do not know if such specialised units 
perform in India effectively. If it is done, Police Officers in the 
field can also help. Police of course will pursue cases of fraud, 
defalcation, misappropriation etc if such cases are reported.




Bhuban 


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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Contractors and consultants come to make money - i.e profit.


*** No one would hold a consultant or a 
contractor guilty of anything IF they are 
RENDERING the services or SUPPLYING the goods 
they are paid to. And if the services are 
rendered and goods supplied for compensation 
dispensed, then it would be VISIBLE. Or so one 
might expect. Thus there will be no cause for 
complaint.


The cause for complaints arise when the services 
or the goods are nowhere to be found, or are 
sub-standard, while the monies are gone.
I did NOT make the charge that "--a few Axomiya 
officers and politicians have become rich at the 
expense of these villagers."


No doubt they have. But to charge ONLY "-- a few 
AXomiya --" of the crimes, while letting the 
really big fish off the hook belies an agenda 
designed to
make the political point that the  Center's 
dereliction of its duties is NOT an issue, while 
Oxomiya misdeeds are the REAL reasons for Oxomiya 
disaffections.


That is what I pointed out.


This is the way our Ulfa categorizes ALL 
Non-assamese into an "Indian" category >vs. the 
locals. Is that why you mentioned "Indian" 
consultants.



*** I don't know how ULFA categorizes them, but yes, I did mention "Indian"
contractors -- because they are indeed some of 
the biggest and most important beneficiaries of 
desi-demokrasy's  unaccountable 
steal-from-the-many-to-enrich-a-few policy that 
Assam and its contiguous regions have reeled 
under since independence. It is quite irrelevant 
whether it has been intentional or merely an 
unintended outcome. But it has been the NET 
result and that is what counts.



I will however remain corrected, on this issue, 
as well as the others that I responded to 
earlier, if someone can present a more credible 
explanation.




cm




At 4:32 AM -0800 11/24/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Contractors and consultants come to make money - 
i.e profit. They are not here to do charity. 
There is a difference between rendering a 
service to make profit vs. stealing money thats 
not yours. Even if beparis stole money in the 
name of profit, there would have been some of 
our local people within the system who got a cut 
and aided them in the process.


Most of us are abroad for the same reason of 
making money I guess. In that case, can I accuse 
you of stealing an American's job and giving it 
to yourself (i.e. exploitation). What 
justification would you have in case tomorrow 
there were to be a backlash against all Indians 
in America? Would you plead and cry to say you 
that you came in legally and did part of your 
education there and became a naturalized 
citizen, contributed to the economy, paid taxes, 
your children were born there and so on and so 
forth? Why should anyone listen to you?


This is the way our Ulfa categorizes ALL 
Non-assamese into an "Indian" category vs. the 
locals. Is that why you mentioned "Indian" 
consultants.


Rgds,
SD





- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org
Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Saikia, 
Hrishikesh IN BLR SISL" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Rajen & Ajanta 
Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
assamonline@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:23:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

 >- but we need to know where all the central 
money is disappearing and how a few >Axomiya 
officers and politicians have become rich at the 
expense of these >villagers.



*** Two questions here: HOW would we KNOW? WHAT 
tools do we have with which to unearth that 
information?



And how do we know that a few Oxomiya 'officers' 
alone are stealing us blind? How do we know that 
it is not going RIGHT OUT of Assam thru Indian 
contarctors, consultants, and a variety of 
traders and 'beparis'-- just to name a few -- 
that have had Assam govts. past and present 
under their controls, albeit from the shadows?



 >Poor villagers dont have the means to question or verify.

*** How about the urban middle class that are 
the real movers and shakers? Do THEY have the 
means? If they do, do they care or not? And if 
NOT, why?


 >DESI-DEMOKRASY not working perhaps...

*** Perhaps? Are there doubts? Something else 
perhaps? I press the issue, because if society's 
backbone is not up to acknowledge where the 
problems lie, how will they ever find solutions?


 >.but then its not AUTOKRASY where centre will 
hold local officials by the neck >and demand 
where the money went.


*** That implies that UNLESS it is an AUTOCRACY, 
the people who CONTROL the purse strings, could 
not or would not have the means to dispense 
their duties, of being responsible for making 
sure that the resources they COLLECT from the 
PEOPLE and re-distribute -- is done properly so 
that the PEOPLE can benefit from it?


It is a VERY LARGE 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Contractors and consultants come to make money - i.e profit. They are not here 
to do charity. There is a difference between rendering a service to make profit 
vs. stealing money thats not yours. Even if beparis stole money in the name of 
profit, there would have been some of our local people within the system who 
got a cut and aided them in the process. 

Most of us are abroad for the same reason of making money I guess. In that 
case, can I accuse you of stealing an American's job and giving it to yourself 
(i.e. exploitation). What justification would you have in case tomorrow there 
were to be a backlash against all Indians in America? Would you plead and cry 
to say you that you came in legally and did part of your education there and 
became a naturalized citizen, contributed to the economy, paid taxes, your 
children were born there and so on and so forth? Why should anyone listen to 
you?

This is the way our Ulfa categorizes ALL Non-assamese into an "Indian" category 
vs. the locals. Is that why you mentioned "Indian" consultants. 

Rgds,
SD





- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org
Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Saikia, Hrishikesh IN BLR SISL" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>; Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:23:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


>- but we need to know where all the central money is disappearing and how a 
>few >Axomiya officers and politicians have become rich at the expense of these 
>>villagers.




*** Two questions here: HOW would we KNOW? WHAT tools do we have with which to 
unearth that information?




And how do we know that a few Oxomiya 'officers' alone are stealing us blind? 
How do we know that it is not going RIGHT OUT of Assam thru Indian contarctors, 
consultants, and a variety of traders and 'beparis'-- just to name a few -- 
that have had Assam govts. past and present under their controls, albeit from 
the shadows?




>Poor villagers dont have the means to question or verify.


*** How about the urban middle class that are the real movers and shakers? Do 
THEY have the means? If they do, do they care or not? And if NOT, why?


>DESI-DEMOKRASY not working perhaps...


*** Perhaps? Are there doubts? Something else perhaps? I press the issue, 
because if society's backbone is not up to acknowledge where the problems lie, 
how will they ever find solutions?


>.but then its not AUTOKRASY where centre will hold local officials by the neck 
>>and demand where the money went.


*** That implies that UNLESS it is an AUTOCRACY, the people who CONTROL the 
purse strings, could not or would not have the means to dispense their duties, 
of being responsible for making sure that the resources they COLLECT from the 
PEOPLE and re-distribute -- is done properly so that the PEOPLE can benefit 
from it?


It is a VERY LARGE RESPONSIBILITY! But is the Center exercising , delivering on 
THAT responsibility? Is it RESPONSIBLE to turn and say from this point on it is 
YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, while doing NOTHING to give the people the TOOLS they need 
to make sure they get the benefit of what comes to them?




That would lead one to ask further--if AUTOCRACY is the ONLY way to to dispense 
their duties, why are they and their supporters keep singing the virtues of the 
dysfunctional desi-demokrasy? Why do they attempt to portray what is 
dysfunctional as something BETTER, something more honorable, than what is 
purportedly effective ?


After all, democracy, autocracy etc. are TOOLS, MEANS to certain ends and NOT 
ends unto themselves, are they?




>I am sure that all of us would know a few such people who have had positions 
>of >importance in the government and have exploited them to the hilt to fatten 
>>their own kitties.




*** I would even venture to suggest that a very large segment of those who have 
risen to be able to air  their complaints, but are clueless about what to do 
about it, are also the beneficiaries of the same dysfunctional system of 
stealing from the many to enrich a few.




It is about time to UNDERSTAND the source of the problems and work to CHANGE 
what is dysfunctional.




cm








At 2:53 AM -0800 11/23/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
5 decades of exploitation yeah - but we need to know where all the central 
money is disappearing and how a few Axomiya officers and politicians have 
become rich at the expense of these villagers.
 
Its very easy. Siphon off all the money and then tell the villagers that the 
Centre is neglecting. Poor villagers dont have the means to question or verify. 
Neither does the centre have a band of rabble-rousers who will answer all the 
allegations because they themselves are unsure of where the money is actually 
going.
 
DESI-DEMOKRASY not work

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[BBaruah]

 
In a message dated 23/11/2006 10:54:56 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

5  decades of exploitation yeah - but we need to know where all the central  
money is disappearing and how a few Axomiya officers and politicians have  
become rich at the expense of these villagers.
 
Its  very easy. Siphon off all the money and then tell the villagers that the 
 Centre is neglecting. Poor villagers dont have the means to question or  
verify. Neither does the centre have a band of rabble-rousers who will answer  
all the allegations because they themselves are unsure of where the money is  
actually going. 
 



 
As far as I know the Centre’s money is paid in phases as the work  
progresses. At times the Centre never pays the allotted funds because of  
non-fulfilment 
of the conditions attached. It is, however, possible that some  money is 
drawn by submitting false certificates that certain work was completed.  
The Comptroller & Auditor General of India and the Accountant  Generals of 
the States audit the accounts and report to the Public Accounts  Committees 
both 
at the Centre and the States. These reports are very  crucial, though  the 
Auditors are not in a position to go  through the entire accounts; they check 
only a part of it. Besides, the  departments themselves have in-house 
accounting 
systems. 
Perhaps a  member of the All  India Audit & Accounts officer could enlighten 
us on this subject. The other  day there was some interest shown in the All 
India Services; now I remember the  Accounts & Audit Services is another 
category. I hope there are a few  Assamese IAAS officers  too.  
In the West there are special cells in the Police department to check  
accounting frauds. I do not know if such specialised units perform in India  
effectively. If it is done, Police Officers in the field can also help. Police  
of 
course will pursue cases of fraud, defalcation, misappropriation etc if such  
cases are reported. 
Bhuban   
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

- but we need to know where all the central 
money is disappearing and how a few >Axomiya 
officers and politicians have become rich at the 
expense of these >villagers.



*** Two questions here: HOW would we KNOW? WHAT 
tools do we have with which to unearth that 
information?



And how do we know that a few Oxomiya 'officers' 
alone are stealing us blind? How do we know that 
it is not going RIGHT OUT of Assam thru Indian 
contarctors, consultants, and a variety of 
traders and 'beparis'-- just to name a few -- 
that have had Assam govts. past and present under 
their controls, albeit from the shadows?




Poor villagers dont have the means to question or verify.


*** How about the urban middle class that are the 
real movers and shakers? Do THEY have the means? 
If they do, do they care or not? And if NOT, why?



DESI-DEMOKRASY not working perhaps...


*** Perhaps? Are there doubts? Something else 
perhaps? I press the issue, because if society's 
backbone is not up to acknowledge where the 
problems lie, how will they ever find solutions?


.but then its not AUTOKRASY where centre will 
hold local officials by the neck >and demand 
where the money went.


*** That implies that UNLESS it is an AUTOCRACY, 
the people who CONTROL the purse strings, could 
not or would not have the means to dispense their 
duties, of being responsible for making sure that 
the resources they COLLECT from the PEOPLE and 
re-distribute -- is done properly so that the 
PEOPLE can benefit from it?


It is a VERY LARGE RESPONSIBILITY! But is the 
Center exercising , delivering on THAT 
responsibility? Is it RESPONSIBLE to turn and say 
from this point on it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, 
while doing NOTHING to give the people the TOOLS 
they need to make sure they get the benefit of 
what comes to them?



That would lead one to ask further--if AUTOCRACY 
is the ONLY way to to dispense their duties, why 
are they and their supporters keep singing the 
virtues of the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy? Why 
do they attempt to portray what is dysfunctional 
as something BETTER, something more honorable, 
than what is purportedly effective ?


After all, democracy, autocracy etc. are TOOLS, 
MEANS to certain ends and NOT ends unto 
themselves, are they?



I am sure that all of us would know a few such 
people who have had positions of >importance in 
the government and have exploited them to the 
hilt to fatten >their own kitties.



*** I would even venture to suggest that a very 
large segment of those who have risen to be able 
to air  their complaints, but are clueless about 
what to do about it, are also the beneficiaries 
of the same dysfunctional system of stealing from 
the many to enrich a few.



It is about time to UNDERSTAND the source of the 
problems and work to CHANGE what is dysfunctional.



cm




At 2:53 AM -0800 11/23/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
5 decades of exploitation yeah - but we need to 
know where all the central money is disappearing 
and how a few Axomiya officers and politicians 
have become rich at the expense of these 
villagers.


Its very easy. Siphon off all the money and then 
tell the villagers that the Centre is 
neglecting. Poor villagers dont have the means 
to question or verify. Neither does the centre 
have a band of rabble-rousers who will answer 
all the allegations because they themselves are 
unsure of where the money is actually going.


DESI-DEMOKRASY not working perhapsbut then 
its not AUTOKRASY where centre will hold local 
officials by the neck and demand where the money 
went.


I am sure that all of us would know a few such 
people who have had positions of importance in 
the government and have exploited them to the 
hilt to fatten their own kitties.


Rgds,
Sandip

- Original Message 
From: "Saikia, Hrishikesh IN BLR SISL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
assamonline@yahoogroups.com; assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 12:02:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

1)   Villagers support ULFA because of 5 
decades of exploitation  , and that cannot be 
the sufficient justification to prove that 
jungle rule prevails in ASSAM. What about the 
systematic torture of our people, forgot AFSPA.


2)   Does a non-vegetarian represent jungli. 
If that is the case then we all are jungli and 
jungle rule prevails in the name of huminity.


  Milk, anything prepared with onion, oil or 
any masala is non-veg food, forget abt meat .We 
don't need any gujrati or marwari to define veg 
and


 non-veg.



Let me tell you where jungle rule prevails:



1)  Female Foeticide among the people who 
are/were from the cow belt region is highest. 
Even if  the individual was from jalandhar and 
stays at bangalore it does not matter. They 
have that animal instinct .


2)   Dowry is disgrace to our society thus 
to india and I

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[umesh sharma]

Samudra-da,
   
  Aren't you the Assam Bureau chief of Indian Express . I used to read your 
articles and worked for Indian Express from 1996 to 1999 in Rajasthan and MP.
   
  I recall a Harvard Professor (an Australian) Prof Robertson (?) saying that 
education alone will not lead to development -- the developing regions will 
have to learn to develop an attitude and mechanisms -- thru trial and error --- 
like West has developed its systems (UN etc) after millions died in World Wars. 
The question ofocurse which must bug us -- do we really need to go thru so many 
wars and attitude clashes to become developed.
   
  Regards.
   
  Umesh 

samudra gupta kashyap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  But, sometimes -- if not all the times -- you are compelled to 
believe that we indeed live in a jungle, if not worse. last sunday i and dileep 
chandan, editor of asam bani, were travelling from guwahati to nalbari, and 
were confronted by a group of teenage girls beyond hajo, who had blocked the 
main road and were demanding money for some puja they said they were 
organising. when we refused, they abused us, asking what kind of assamese we 
were that we were unwilling to help them organise a puja! this is a regular 
scene in this jungle, where people block even highways to collect donations 
(extortion!) for various purposes including organising bihu - our jatiya 
utsav -. and those who do not pay may be beaten up, detained, hurled with the 
richest of assamese abuses, and may be even kidnapped if the 'volunteers' are a 
bit more energetic.

i work in the media, and that too for the so-called national media, and it 
often becomes difficult to paint a rosy picture of the state because such a 
situation does not exist in reality. every assamese like me, wo work for 
outside media, including mrinal talukdar of united news of india, enaxi saikia 
barua of press trust of india, sushanta talukdar of the hindu, bijoy shankar 
bora of the statesman, digambar patowari or rahul karmakar of hindustan times, 
or prabin kalita or oinal sunil of the times of india face the same problem. 
believe me, there are intellectuals in assam who think and strongly believe 
that the outside media in assam do not have a single 'local' assamese reporter, 
and when such intellectuals issue statements with such unfounded allegations, 
there is a section of the local media which publishes them without bothering to 
verify the facts.
god bless this state.++

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 Debojyoti Bordoloi wrote :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/2799



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Rajen & Ajanta Barua]

1)  Jungle rule - I would say yes, and will not be difficult to prove..
2) Many villagers support ULFA - was correct till few years ago
3) We all NEs eat fish and chicken. Some NEs eat dog, snake, etc also. 

So where do we see the problem in such accusation. 
Why should one feel bad. Incidently the Chinese have a reputation that they eat 
everything that moves.
Media cannot do anything by trying to publicise wrong statements that we donot 
have Jungle rule, that we donot support ULFA, that some of us donot eat dog and 
snakes.

We need to change our views how not to feel ashamed at such accusation but how 
we can defend ourselves. I am talking about # 3).
We defenitley need to do somthing how to stop our Jungle rule and start a 
democratic civilized rule.
Rajen Barua

  - Original Message - 
  From: Debojyoti Bordoloi 
  To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


  Apart from things like literacy rate n all, what is really a matter of grave 
concern is the picture of Assam in particular and North-East as a whole,painted 
by the masses of so-called developed cities and metros of India. According to 
them,Assam is a land where JUNGLE rule still prevails,each and every household 
in the interior corners of the state is having atleast one underground family 
member who is fighting against the state and people from these places eat 
everything on the planet.This is really very disgusting at this age when media 
in any form virtually rules every thing in the society and we are performing in 
this regard very poorly.So, i feel that we should take some stern action in 
this direction and our media should promote our State in a better way at the 
outset so that we also become a name to reckon with on the national scene with 
all our good qualities,resources and our heritage et.all.

  debajyoti

  samudra gupta kashyap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

  mrinal talukdar is right!

  It is not correct to presume that everything is wrong here on the banks of 
the brahmaputra. mrinal has already pointed at some of the numerous positive 
things that are happening here. what is lacking is a bold civil society which 
wakes up to push aside a handful of self-appointed saviours of assam who have 
negatively influenced the assamese mindset and woven myths that only drag all 
of us backwards instead of contributing towards emancipation of this wonderful 
ethnic mix called assamese.

  people in assam are today willing to say a big No to the bandh culture. 
people want to climb the ladder of human development in all aspects (it is also 
true that assam ranks 15th among the indian states in terms of male literacy 
and 13th in terms of female literacy? do you know life expectancy at birth of 
assamese males is just 58 years 350 days against all-india average of 63 years 
317 days and biar's 65 years 240 days? and that the average assam woman lives 
only 60 years 317 days against all-india average of 66 years 332 days, and 
bihar's 64 years 288 days? it is also true that people like moni manik gogoi, 
who gave up ulfa (but did not become a sulfa) on finding that it was a stupid 
thing to take up arms, and has in the past six or seven years transformed the 
economy of dozens of villages near naharkatiya.) 

  what assam needs is a program that can change the mindset of the people. also 
required is a new generation of leaders wo are literate, forward-looking, 
committed, ready to sacrifice and also face criticism, and believes that the 
assamese too is a global citizen and not a nador bhekuli. 

  please come and do something, if you feel like, on these areas -- areas of 
human development and also on areas of leadership development.

  Samudra Gupta Kashyap/Guwahati

  On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 Mrinal Talukdar wrote :
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/2791



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[umesh sharma]

great work:
  ***
  NRAs are sending money, whatever they can,  to some worthwhile projects in 
Assam. The otherday, people in  Houston raised funds for Parijat Academy and 
Prjnalaya, two primary schools for the poor children in Assam.  The other day 
Assamese people of Los Angeles raised money to donate  an Olympic standard Bow 
String to the poor aspiring Assamese National level Archer Ms Ranjumoni Barua 
who is making a living by selling vegetables. Many Assamese probably are too 
busy enjoying part of those 15000 corers annual GOI free money to have time to 
focus in such ground level projects.
   
   
  Umesh

Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  According to published report, the Central govt is sending Rs 15000 
crores of rupees to the  North East every year. We would like to know where 
Assam is spending these money, how much of these are going in corruption,  and 
how much more money Assam wants to develop its infra structure? Why Assam has 
the highest corruption amongst all the states? NRAs have not yet seen such 
money and NRAs donot want to add to the corruption level.  Every MP receive 
hundreds of crores rupees to spend in its constituency. Who is keeping track of 
these?  Why Assam is at the bottom of the economic ladder even amongst the 
other states of the North East? Why people of Assam are not asking these 
questions to their political leaders? We  read of Kumar Bhaskar Barman sending 
thousands of elephants to the king Harshabardhan as gift. Why Assam Tourism 
today cannot even provide 10 elephants for Kaziranga tourism? Is it because of 
lack of money or due to lack of management? Why people donot see
 such reports in the Assam newspapers? These issues cannot be solved by small 
amount of NRA money. 
 
  NRAs are sending money, whatever they can,  to some worthwhile projects in 
Assam. The otherday, people in  Houston raised funds for Parijat Academy and 
Prjnalaya, two primary schools for the poor children in Assam.  The other day 
Assamese people of Los Angeles raised money to donate  an Olympic standard Bow 
String to the poor aspiring Assamese National level Archer Ms Ranjumoni Barua 
who is making a living by selling vegetables. Many Assamese probably are too 
busy enjoying part of those 15000 corers annual GOI free money to have time to 
focus in such ground level projects.
   
  Yes, we would like to criticize whoever is responsible for the poor  state of 
affairs of our mother land.  
  Yes we would like to criticize when we see the Assamese leaders burying 
theirs heads under the sand.
  Yes we criticize because we love our mother land.
  Rajen Barua
   

- Original Message - 
  From: jadav kakoti 
  To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 6:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
  

I am totally in agreement with Mrinalda Talukdar (Mrinalda)! 

The NRAs have been criticising Assam and its system but how much money they 
send beck home? Infrastructure in Assam is very poor and these rich men could 
do a lot for its betterment. It's easy to criticise the bureaucrats or the 
politicians holding them responsible for the poor state of affairs. Organising 
seminars in Seattle or New York on the backwardsness of Assam is in no way 
going to mend matters. The NRIs from states like Kerala and Punjab are doing a 
lot for their natal states. 

My point here is not to pull up the NRAs. They have established their 
credentials by dint of hard work. They have big brains and a fat purse. But if 
they can share a part of their money with the poor state of their origin it 
will serve a great purpose. I hope they don't take it as personal attack on 
them.

Jadav Kakoti 
9818126294 

See -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/2791



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

I read your other comment about getting Phds and I know now why you were never 
taken seriously.

Rgds,
Sandip


- Original Message 
From: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:33:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


<"ulfa-autokrasy" >
Autocrasy will come only if ULFA is allowed unlimited powers for unlimited time 
by the liberated .
mm



From: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:34:58 -0800 (PST)


Mike-Da,
 
Perhaps we should have your services or other such intellectualls' in drafting 
the constitution of India. But right now you seem to be hell bent with 
replacing "desi-demokrasy" with "ulfa-autokrasy" with licence to kill anyone in 
case of a failed or refused payment :-)
 
Rgds,
SD


- Original Message 
From: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:16:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


.
 They do,they will, if these achievements improve our own peoples' lives. Do 
not underestimate our own peoples'  sense/judgement.
mm





From:  Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:  mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC:  assam@assamnet.org
Subject:  RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date:  Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:20 -0800 (PST)



Shantikam hazarika faced all the hardles , red tape , bureaucratic delay , 
general apathy to build the Assam Institute of management as a premier 
Institution. He had the guts to sail against the winds. There are others like 
him who have been working selflessly to provide basic education to the 
underprivileged children , raising awareness about women's right , voluntarily 
working for conserving our culture etc. They are working silently without the 
media glare

   
My next question is , do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??.
   
 
   
Sincerely,
   
 
   
Ankur
   
Austin , Texas
mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   
   
   
Why are you all zeroing on 
to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and 
career.
   
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
   
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
   
mm


   
   

  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

   
   
We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the 
state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to 
fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have 
every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas


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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

<"ulfa-autokrasy" >
Autocrasy will come only if ULFA is allowed unlimited powers for unlimited time by the liberated .
mm


From: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:34:58 -0800 (PST)




Mike-Da,
 
Perhaps we should have your services or other such intellectualls' in drafting the constitution of India. But right now you seem to be hell bent with replacing "desi-demokrasy" with "ulfa-autokrasy" with licence to kill anyone in case of a failed or refused payment :-)
 
Rgds,
SD
- Original Message From: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:16:29 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


 do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??>.
 They do,they will, if these achievements improve our own peoples' lives. Do not underestimate our own peoples'  sense/judgement.
mm




From:  Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC:  assam@assamnet.orgSubject:  RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:20 -0800 (PST)

Shantikam hazarika faced all the hardles , red tape , bureaucratic delay , general apathy to build the Assam Institute of management as a premier Institution. He had the guts to sail against the winds. There are others like him who have been working selflessly to provide basic education to the underprivileged children , raising awareness about women's right , voluntarily working for conserving our culture etc. They are working silently without the media glare  
My next question is , do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??.  
   
Sincerely,  
   
Ankur  
Austin , Texasmc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
  
  
Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.  
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?  
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?  
mm  
  

  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)
  
  
  
We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have every right to know how did they serve.The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?Ankur,Austin, Texas__._,_.___  
Messages in this topic (28) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic   
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 Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe   
  
  
Recent Activity  
  
  
 5  
New Members  
  
 4  
New PhotosVisit Your Group   
SPONSORED LINKS  
  
  
High res  
High res photos  
Assam  
Assam tea  
Bodum assam  
  
  
Yahoo! Mail  
Get it all!  
With the all-new  
Yahoo! Mail Beta  
  
Y! Messenger  
Group get-together  
Host a free online  
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Upload Now!  
First 20  
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

interests from a REMOTE location--namely the 'high-command' sitting at Indraprastha? Is it a real DEMOCRACY? Is it not an insult to the intelligence of people to suggest that the reps. elewted by Assam are TRULY elected by the people of Assam?

The electoral system is defecr tive, it is broken, it is UN-representative.


*** Then there is the issue of TYRANNY of the majority perpetrated by both the unrepresentative legislative branch sitting in Delhi, run by vastly majorities that have no clue or no interest in playing fair by regions it considers colonies or un-important, or even non-existent; and the SC that has usurped legislative powers, unchecked either by a Constitution or the elected members, barely educated about democratic institutions, if at all.

The Upper House, the Rajya Sabha, that can and should act as a check against a tyranny of the numbers in the Lower House, is little more than a ceremonial puppet.

But can India change it?  I will bet you a rupee, that India is incapable of such reforms. What with the ignorance and apathy of its intelligentsia.


*** Bhuban Kokaideu is thoroughly impressed with the Judiciary. But if you ask sitting SC judges even--SOME will tell you how corrupted the courts have become. How the judges are bought and sold by special interests, with NO OVERSIGHT, with no way to hold them accountable! Yes, some of them have rendered wise decisions
on certain celebratory cases. That is commendable and hopeful. But EXCEPTIONS do NOT make the rule. The courts need massive reforms, again something that the fractured and disparate country cannot muster the political will to execute.

Because without an effective judicial system, no-one could expect any ACCOUNTABILITY so dramatically absent in desi-demokrasy.


*** The ANSWER? Break the country up to MANAGEABLE smaller entities. Undertake complete overhauls to RESPOND to regional needs --- which are NOT the SAME  all over. Let the smaller entities free to build their OWN FUTURES ridding them of their DEPENDENCE on doles from that mai-baap at Hastinapur, which have robbed regions of their enterprise and drive to survive and excel. The prevailing common bonds that hark long back into history can continue to remain unbroken. And if necessary or desirable maintain a common defense, foreign policy etc. as the institutional links. And even let those who want to remain together as they choose. But let those who want to go--FREE!

Let Assam be the first and blaze a trail. The only WIN WIN solution there is.

O'm












 This enforcement is one of the main responsibilities of the IAS officials. If they don't do it for fear of reprisal and dismissal by the elected officials, they are shirking their responsibility.
 
Just a thought - if an IAS officer stands up for what is right and confronts an elected official, who does he turn to get support for his stand?
 
Dilip Deka
=SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Entirely Aggree!!
 
Rgds,
Sandip
- Original Message From: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:16:37 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers or public servants. We should encourage people 
to ask questions, that is the basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are simply asking, if the political leaders did not allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody in charge hard questions.
Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
Rajen Barua

- Original Message -
From: mc mahant
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
And onto

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Alpana B. Sarangapani]

I vaguely remember reading in newspapers from Assam a few years ago, that a corrupt-free government officer named Rajkhowa came back to Guwahati and made office employees show up on time at work. I am not sure if we are talking about the same person. 
And yes, welcome to the group, Mr. Rajkhowa. My living in Houston - my current home away from home is the reason for which I am not fully aware of the details of the situations there - as an ordinary citizen, that is. Newspaper and internet news are our main source of information.
Hope you write here more and regularly.
With best wishes,
- A. Sarangapani


From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assam@assamnet.org, "j p rajkhowa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: ankur bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:25:08 -0600



Welcome to 'assamnet', Mr. Rajkohowa.

I am NOT a member of 'asomonline', but somehow I do get to see mail posted in that forum, even though I have no privileges to post messages to that list.

That is why the welcome to assam@assamnet.org, of which I am a member.

I have no interest in examining or judging individual performance here.It is not a dependable exercise. However I do have a lot of interest in examining  the specifics in and the systemic issues underlying and associated with the subject/s under discussion.

As an erstwhile chief-administrator of Assam and as a member of the Indian executive branch, unkindly :-) referred to as  the bureaucracy, it will be very beneficial to receive your views on such. You are the very first individual with such a background that has spoken in this kind of an open forum.

With that perspective, I am pasting here some of my observations on the systemic side to the subject. Will be much obliged if you would care to share your views and  perhaps educate us.

Best regards.

Chandan Mahanta

**

At 7:54 PM -0800 11/17/06, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
I think we all agree in this net that one big problem in India is enforcement of the myriads of laws.

*** Glad to see you at least are attempting to scratch the surface of one of the issues, instead of dispensing pithy platitudes about how the people are the problem, with Biharis and the Assamese leading the losers.


*** Enforcement of laws however is preceded by the LAWS themselves. It is the myriad of laws, that empower  corruption, that discourages individual enterprise,impede development and promote exploitation- albeit as a result of non-enforcement. The concept of letting IAS/IPS/IRS bureaucrats screen out potential law-breakers BEFORE the citizenry ( no doubt criminally pre-disposed ) can even get into the act, but thoroughly impotent to do anything when actual breaches of the law take place, is a profoundly defective concept. It is unique to India, a degenerated version of the colonial rule designed to safe-guard the Empire's interests.
 
*** The enormity of laws, rules and regulations-- much of it hand-me down of Victorian British laws, unintelligible to mere mortals and irrelevant to today's needs of an independent nation, also continue to raise the number of law-breakers. No wonder, the already inept and corrupt investigators and the prosecutors cannot come up with enough evidence in a timely manner, to help adjudicate the offenses. And since the courts are back-logged, now estimated to be around forty years, even the serious violators can rest easy. So the SYSTEM helps promote an environment of an absence of DETERRENCE. Why should anyone be concerned of breaking a law?

*** You charge the IAS' with dereliction of duty -- for not enforcing the laws.
Is it really a fair thing to do? WHERE is the SEPARATION of powers so essential to the functioning of a democratic state? HOW is it that the executive branch gets dictated to, in fact used as go-fers, PEONS to be precise, by the elected representatives? How does some retired spook or superannuated light-wt. general of a Guvnor have the right to overrule the elected state govts. on matters of prosecution of high officials on charges of corruption? Or how does the Center hold the rights to allow or not allow a state to prosecute an IAS or IPS Babu in a federal democratic state?

Add to that the fact of elected reps, political animals, moving up to become the TOP-EXECUTIVES -- the ministers and so forth, who ACTUALLY are the TOP ADMINISTRATORS of the Indian state. What are their EXPERTISE, their SKILL, to administer?

For that matter what are the skills of IAS/IRS/IPS Babus to administer? Is the ability to write exams, or being a walking encyclopedia, combined with a 'phoren' degree in Exconomics or what have you, ENOUGH to administer complex mega-projects of today, as the desi-Babus are expected to do?

It is yet another profound flaw of desi-demokrasy's pretensions of a socialist state!

***  Even if there were to be real separation of powers, the IAS Hakims still 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

Welcome to 'assamnet', Mr. Rajkohowa.

I am NOT a member of 'asomonline', but somehow I do get to see mail 
posted in that forum, even though I have no privileges to post 
messages to that list.


That is why the welcome to assam@assamnet.org, of which I am a member.

I have no interest in examining or judging individual performance 
here.It is not a dependable exercise. However I do have a lot of 
interest in examining  the specifics in and the systemic issues 
underlying and associated with the subject/s under discussion.


As an erstwhile chief-administrator of Assam and as a member of the 
Indian executive branch, unkindly :-) referred to as  the 
bureaucracy, it will be very beneficial to receive your views on 
such. You are the very first individual with such a background that 
has spoken in this kind of an open forum.


With that perspective, I am pasting here some of my observations on 
the systemic side to the subject. Will be much obliged if you would 
care to share your views and  perhaps educate us.


Best regards.

Chandan Mahanta

**

At 7:54 PM -0800 11/17/06, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
I think we all agree in this net that one big problem in India is 
enforcement of the myriads of laws.



*** Glad to see you at least are attempting to scratch the surface of 
one of the issues, instead of dispensing pithy platitudes about how 
the people are the problem, with Biharis and the Assamese leading the 
losers.



*** Enforcement of laws however is preceded by the LAWS themselves. 
It is the myriad of laws, that empower  corruption, that discourages 
individual enterprise,impede development and promote exploitation- 
albeit as a result of non-enforcement. The concept of letting 
IAS/IPS/IRS bureaucrats screen out potential law-breakers BEFORE the 
citizenry ( no doubt criminally pre-disposed ) can even get into the 
act, but thoroughly impotent to do anything when actual breaches of 
the law take place, is a profoundly defective concept. It 
is unique to India, a degenerated version of the colonial rule 
designed to safe-guard the Empire's interests.


*** The enormity of laws, rules and regulations-- much of it hand-me 
down of Victorian British laws, unintelligible to mere mortals and 
irrelevant to today's needs of an independent nation, also continue 
to raise the number of law-breakers. No wonder, the already inept and 
corrupt investigators and the prosecutors cannot come up with enough 
evidence in a timely manner, to help adjudicate the offenses. And 
since the courts are back-logged, now estimated to be around forty 
years, even the serious violators can rest easy. So the SYSTEM helps 
promote an environment of an absence of DETERRENCE. Why should anyone 
be concerned of breaking a law?


*** You charge the IAS' with dereliction of duty -- for not enforcing the laws.
Is it really a fair thing to do? WHERE is the SEPARATION of powers so 
essential to the functioning of a democratic state? HOW is it that 
the executive branch gets dictated to, in fact used as go-fers, PEONS 
to be precise, by the elected representatives? How does some retired 
spook or superannuated light-wt. general of a Guvnor have the right 
to overrule the elected state govts. on matters of prosecution of 
high officials on charges of corruption? Or how does the Center hold 
the rights to allow or not allow a state to prosecute an IAS or IPS 
Babu in a federal democratic state?


Add to that the fact of elected reps, political animals, moving up to 
become the TOP-EXECUTIVES -- the ministers and so forth, who ACTUALLY 
are the TOP ADMINISTRATORS of the Indian state. What are their 
EXPERTISE, their SKILL, to administer?


For that matter what are the skills of IAS/IRS/IPS Babus to 
administer? Is the ability to write exams, or being a walking 
encyclopedia, combined with a 'phoren' degree in Exconomics or what 
have you, ENOUGH to administer complex mega-projects of today, as the 
desi-Babus are expected to do?


It is yet another profound flaw of desi-demokrasy's pretensions of a 
socialist state!


***  Even if there were to be real separation of powers, the IAS 
Hakims still will have to depend upon the police and the prosecutors 
and the courts. The police system is thoroughly broken, totally 
dysfunctional and corrupted to the core. Can you imagine it to be of 
ay use without a profound overhaul? Many bright individuals have 
written at length of what needs done.


But where is the Indian political will to REFORM? It is non-existent! 
EVEN if the desire is there, it is IMPOSSIBLE to muster the political 
will of the disparate and fractured behemoth.



*** And WHO are the movers and shakers of democratic will of the 
people, who make the laws and sets policies of the state? What are 
their SKILLS? And if they are not necessarily skilled in specialized 
areas -- as they could be expected not to -- does the desi system 
have provisions for BRINGI

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

 even non-existent; 
and the SC that has usurped legislative powers, unchecked either by a 
Constitution or the elected members, barely educated about democratic 
institutions, if at all.


The Upper House, the Rajya Sabha, that can and should act as a check 
against a tyranny of the numbers in the Lower House, is little more 
than a ceremonial puppet.


But can India change it?  I will bet you a rupee, that India is 
incapable of such reforms. What with the ignorance and apathy of its 
intelligentsia.



*** Bhuban Kokaideu is thoroughly impressed with the Judiciary. But 
if you ask sitting SC judges even--SOME will tell you how corrupted 
the courts have become. How the judges are bought and sold by special 
interests, with NO OVERSIGHT, with no way to hold them accountable! 
Yes, some of them have rendered wise decisions
on certain celebratory cases. That is commendable and hopeful. But 
EXCEPTIONS do NOT make the rule. The courts need massive reforms, 
again something that the fractured and disparate country cannot 
muster the political will to execute.


Because without an effective judicial system, no-one could expect any 
ACCOUNTABILITY so dramatically absent in desi-demokrasy.



*** The ANSWER? Break the country up to MANAGEABLE smaller entities. 
Undertake complete overhauls to RESPOND to regional needs --- which 
are NOT the SAME  all over. Let the smaller entities free to build 
their OWN FUTURES ridding them of their DEPENDENCE on doles from that 
mai-baap at Hastinapur, which have robbed regions of their enterprise 
and drive to survive and excel. The prevailing common bonds that hark 
long back into history can continue to remain unbroken. And if 
necessary or desirable maintain a common defense, foreign policy etc. 
as the institutional links. And even let those who want to remain 
together as they choose. But let those who want to go--FREE!


Let Assam be the first and blaze a trail. The only WIN WIN solution there is.

O'm













 This enforcement is one of the main responsibilities of the IAS 
officials. If they don't do it for fear of reprisal and dismissal by 
the elected officials, they are shirking their responsibility.


Just a thought - if an IAS officer stands up for what is right and 
confronts an elected official, who does he turn to get support for 
his stand?


Dilip Deka
=

SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Entirely Aggree!!

Rgds,
Sandip

- Original Message 
From: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:16:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

It is because the total system is a sum of the individual 
contributions. When you question the total system, you actually try 
to diffuse the responsility and individual accountability. It is 
like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 'poisoned arrow' so 
that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody now a 
days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame 
everything on the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is 
a dynamic system of the people by the people and for the people. In 
this system if somebody think that there is free cake, he or she is 
not doing his or her job. All officers should be accountable to the 
public, and the public has a right to ask questions. People will be 
asking more questions to more people, be they political officers or 
public servants. We should encourage people to ask questions, that 
is the basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in 
any way. We are simply asking, if the political leaders did not 
allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the 
Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody 
in charge hard questions.

Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
Rajen Barua


- Original Message -
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mc mahant
To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: <mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at 
least repenting his wasted  life and career.
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who 
cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?

And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
mm


From: Ankur Bora <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <mailto:assamonline@yahoogroups.com>assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive 
of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

I defined earlier -the 4-Tier Democratic institutions that might work as a true Democracy.
mm




From:  Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:  assam@assamnet.orgSubject:  Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:54:10 -0800 (PST)

I think we all agree in this net that one big problem in India is enforcement of the myriads of laws. This enforcement is one of the main responsibilities of the IAS officials. If they don't do it for fear of reprisal and dismissal by the elected officials, they are shirking their responsibility.  
   
Just a thought - if an IAS officer stands up for what is right and confronts an elected official, who does he turn to get support for his stand?  
   
Dilip Deka  
=SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
  


  
Entirely Aggree!!  
   
Rgds,  
Sandip  
- Original Message From: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:16:37 AMSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours  
It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers or public servants. We should encourage people 
to ask questions, that is the basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are simply asking, if the political leaders did not allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody in charge hard questions.  
Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".  
Rajen Barua  
   
  
- Original Message -   
From: mc mahant   
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
Cc: assam@assamnet.org   
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours  
  
  
Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.  
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?  
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?  
mm  
  

  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)  
  
  
  
We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have every right to know how did they serve.The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?Ankur,Austin, Texas__._,_.___  
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

<"If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".>
That is  just what I told Jawaharlal Nehru in London in 1959 . He called in all Indian Students in Europe to listen to  him .
He said "I have 600 million problems". At interaction time  Yours Truly told him  "Please hand overpowers and responsibilities to somebody else  who will try different methods to convert each of the 600 million' Problems' to Assets-worker bees".
His henchmen told me to sit down.
Henchmen continue keeping the Family as Destined Leaders inspite of poor records.
People alone cannot be blamed 'You deserve the Govt . you elect'. The  unchangeable System created perpetuates their misery-  and they do not know yet -how to extricate.
mm


From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "mc mahant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:16:37 -0600

It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers or public servants. We should encourage people to ask 
questions, that is the basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are simply asking, if the political leaders did not allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody in charge hard questions.
Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
Rajen Barua
 

- Original Message ----- 
From: mc mahant 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: assam@assamnet.org 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
mm


From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)



We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have every right to know how did they serve.The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?Ankur,Austin, Texas__._,_.___
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Mike-Da,

Perhaps we should have your services or other such intellectualls' in drafting 
the constitution of India. But right now you seem to be hell bent with 
replacing "desi-demokrasy" with "ulfa-autokrasy" with licence to kill anyone in 
case of a failed or refused payment :-)

Rgds,
SD


- Original Message 
From: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:16:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


.
 They do,they will, if these achievements improve our own peoples' lives. Do 
not underestimate our own peoples'  sense/judgement.
mm





From:  Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:  mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC:  assam@assamnet.org
Subject:  RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date:  Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:20 -0800 (PST)



Shantikam hazarika faced all the hardles , red tape , bureaucratic delay , 
general apathy to build the Assam Institute of management as a premier 
Institution. He had the guts to sail against the winds. There are others like 
him who have been working selflessly to provide basic education to the 
underprivileged children , raising awareness about women's right , voluntarily 
working for conserving our culture etc. They are working silently without the 
media glare

   
My next question is , do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??.
   
 
   
Sincerely,
   
 
   
Ankur
   
Austin , Texas
mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   
   
   
Why are you all zeroing on 
to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and 
career.
   
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
   
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
   
mm


   
   

  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

   
   
We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the 
state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to 
fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have 
every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas


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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[BBaruah]

Law enforcement is indeed a problem. Every IAS/IPS officer confronts it at  
some point of their career. Unfortunately these knowledgeable people do not 
take  part in Assam Net to give us the benefit of a firsthand account. One or 
two 
 people have however left some accounts in their published life's memoirs.
 
Officers do have recourse to the courts of law and in fact Indian judiciary  
is unequalled in the matter of protection of fundamental rights.  The 
employees' unions also help. 
 
Bhuban 
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

I think we all agree in this net that one big problem in India is enforcement 
of the myriads of laws. This enforcement is one of the main responsibilities of 
the IAS officials. If they don't do it for fear of reprisal and dismissal by 
the elected officials, they are shirking their responsibility.
   
  Just a thought - if an IAS officer stands up for what is right and confronts 
an elected official, who does he turn to get support for his stand?
   
  Dilip Deka
  =

SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Entirely Aggree!!
   
  Rgds,
  Sandip


  - Original Message 
From: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:16:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

  It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When 
you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and 
individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 
'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody 
now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on 
the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the 
people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that 
there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should 
be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. 
People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers 
or public servants. We should encourage people to ask questions, that is the 
basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are 
simply asking, if the political leaders
 did not allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the 
Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody in charge 
hard questions.
  Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
  Rajen Barua
   
- Original Message - 
  From: mc mahant 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: assam@assamnet.org 
  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
  

Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least 
repenting his wasted  life and career.
  Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
  And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
  mm



-
  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of 
the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as 
tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So 
we have every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[SANDIP DUTTA]

Entirely Aggree!!

Rgds,
Sandip


- Original Message 
From: Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:16:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When 
you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and 
individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 
'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody 
now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on 
the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the 
people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that 
there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should 
be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. 
People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers 
or public servants. We should encourage people to ask questions, that is the 
basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are 
simply asking, if the political leaders did
 not allow him to the job, why he did not resign. We need to change the 
Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional democracy by questioning everybody in charge 
hard questions.
Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
Rajen Barua
 
- Original Message - 
From: mc mahant 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: assam@assamnet.org 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least 
repenting his wasted  life and career.
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
mm




From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the 
state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to 
fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have 
every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas


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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Rajen & Ajanta Barua]

It is because the total system is a sum of the individual contributions. When 
you question the total system, you actually try to diffuse the responsility and 
individual accountability. It is like waiting for somebody to remove the mystic 
'poisoned arrow' so that everything will be suddenly fine and dandy.  Everybody 
now a days seems to take this approach and find it easy to blame everything on 
the GOA or GOI. Democracy is not a stat product, it is a dynamic system of the 
people by the people and for the people. In this system if somebody think that 
there is free cake, he or she is not doing his or her job. All officers should 
be accountable to the public, and the public has a right to ask questions. 
People will be asking more questions to more people, be they political officers 
or public servants. We should encourage people to ask questions, that is the 
basics of democracy. This writing is not to blame Rajkhowa in any way. We are 
simply asking, if the political leaders did not allow him to the job, why he 
did not resign. We need to change the Assamese Hobo Diok dysfunctional 
democracy by questioning everybody in charge hard questions.
Moto is "If you cannot do the job, please give it to somebody else".
Rajen Barua

  - Original Message - 
  From: mc mahant 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: assam@assamnet.org 
  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours


  Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least 
repenting his wasted  life and career.

  Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?

  And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?

  mm





From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the 
state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to 
fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have 
every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

 do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??>.
 They do,they will, if these achievements improve our own peoples' lives. Do not underestimate our own peoples'  sense/judgement.
mm




From:  Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC:  assam@assamnet.orgSubject:  RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:20 -0800 (PST)

Shantikam hazarika faced all the hardles , red tape , bureaucratic delay , general apathy to build the Assam Institute of management as a premier Institution. He had the guts to sail against the winds. There are others like him who have been working selflessly to provide basic education to the underprivileged children , raising awareness about women's right , voluntarily working for conserving our culture etc. They are working silently without the media glare  
My next question is , do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??.  
   
Sincerely,  
   
Ankur  
Austin , Texasmc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
  
  
Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.  
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?  
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?  
mm  
  

  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)
  
  
  
We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have every right to know how did they serve.The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?Ankur,Austin, Texas__._,_.___  
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

You said it all.
So shout out loud and clear"We want what Ulfa wants. Nothing else."
mm


From: "Saikia, Hrishikesh IN BLR SISL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "s hazarika" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:26:13 +0530






Now the former chief executive would say “ Koribo tun bahutei bisarisilu, kintu … minister mokhae koribo nidile”.
Then ask any of the minister, the reply would be “Oh , hobo nohoi, kori asu. “.
Then ask our CM , “Tarun da, kiba hobone nohoi”.
Reply would be “Agor pora hoi ase , aru hoye thakibo. Dekha nai janu aji kali axomiya lodai bahirot goi sakori kore….”.
I think for him exporting human resources of few thousand people to outside assam is big deal.
What the assamese in assam would do?
My reply: “Barixa banor pasot, alu kosu’u khabo nuhua hoi”.
 
This way in the last 59 years nothing happened.
 
Regards
Hrishikesh Saikia
 
-Original Message-From: assamonline@yahoogroups.com [mailto:assamonline@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of s hazarikaSent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:24 PMTo: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
 



Why is it necessary to be careful in what one writes? As long as one is not hurting.When one takes up an assignment, one has a job to pereform. if one fails, one must be ready to face criticism.Shantikam hazarika- Original Message -From: pmalakarTo: assamonline@yahoogroups.com ; Shantikam HazarikaSent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:01 AMSubject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursThe general tendency is to criticize others without being aware of one's ethical stance. Perhaps it is better to be a little careful about what we write.Regards,Paresh Malakar- Original Message -From: Shantikam HazarikaTo: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:57 PMSubject: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursExuses are galore. If the chief executive of the state cannot solve thestate's problems, who can? Me?I feel i have contrubuted what has been within my capacity and therefroe I think i have the right to question others.Shantikam hazarika- Original Message -From: "SANDIP DUTTA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]com>To: Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:48 PMSubject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursIts not a question of what he didn't do.It could be that he did try to do a few thingsbut then the question is 
whether he got any supportfrom his political bossesand the rudderless pressure groups.There are many here who would question the actionsof others without really having contributedanything concrete themselves.Rgds,SD

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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ankur Bora]

Shantikam hazarika faced all the hardles , red tape , bureaucratic delay , 
general apathy to build the Assam Institute of management as a premier 
Institution. He had the guts to sail against the winds. There are others like 
him who have been working selflessly to provide basic education to the 
underprivileged children , raising awareness about women's right , voluntarily 
working for conserving our culture etc. They are working silently without the 
media glare

  My next question is , do our own people recognize and respect such efforts ??.
   
  Sincerely,
   
  Ankur
  Austin , Texas
mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least 
repenting his wasted  life and career.
  Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot 
perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
  And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
  mm



-
  From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assamonline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)

  We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive 
of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as 
tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So 
we have every right to know how did they serve.

The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government 
privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?

Ankur,
Austin, Texas



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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

Why are you all zeroing on to just one Bureaucrat?Poor chap is at least repenting his wasted  life and career.
Why not on to the total system of million loafers of Government who cannot perform one bit. And on to DemoKrasy itself?
And onto the 1950 Indian Constitution- copied from other rubbish?
mm


From: Ankur Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)




We have a right to know what Mr. Rajkhowa did as the chief executive of the state because he was a government servant. We pay our hard earn money as tax to fill government exchanger and pay for the salary of the bureaucrats. So we have every right to know how did they serve.The question is , Mr. Rajkhowa inspite of enjoying all the government privileged , did he make a significant change in people's life?Ankur,Austin, Texas__._,_.___
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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,


*** I have this uncanny feeling that those who look at the lungi-menace as

Assam's only or the >most significant problem, are people whose visions are
damaged by religious bigotries, even if >they had any to begin with.

That is one 'uncanny' assessment!.
I suppose, you might consider me a minority on my take of what you call the
'lungi menace'

The fact that illegals coming into Assam in droves happen to be mostly
Muslim, does not in any way belittle the stark reality that they are
illegals, and are a huge tax on resources of an already beleagured state. It
also does not belittle the fact that an Assamese identity (if it still
exists) is fast being overtaken by the sheer numbers coming across from
B'desh.

My assessment is simple: this meance has little to do with religious
bigotries, and more to do with simple basic economics. Unfortunately, Assam
does not have the wherewithall nor the abundance to share what it has with
these hordes coming across the border.

It is very easy to frame such real issues as simply the ravings of religious
bigots.

--Ram


On 11/14/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 O' Hazarika:




At 11:57 PM +0530 11/14/06, Shantikam Hazarika wrote:

Exuses are galore. If the chief executive of the state cannot solve the
state's problems, who can? Me?




*** Bhal prosno korise. You ask a good question. I am with you here.





I feel i have contrubuted what has been within my capacity and therefroe I
think i have the right to question others.


*** Again I agree.




But having said all that, allow me to ask Sri Dutta and you too: WHAT is
the solution to the problem? And what is Sri Rajkhowa's solution? Or for
that matter all the others who have been crying hoarse over the lungi menace
for decades on end--what is their solution?




*** If as Sri Dutta speculates :"---It could be that he did try to do a
few things but then the question is whether he got any support
from his political bosses  and the rudderless pressure groups. "


What are Sri Dutta's recommendations  to get those 'political bosses' and
'rudderless pressure groups ' in line, so that the Chief Secys like the
Rajkhowas of Assam  can perform their duties and SOLVE the problem? And if
it is NOT their responsibility, then help them get their courage together to
say aloud at least WHOSE responsibility it is. Funny thing is that I am YET
to see anyone who has the b---s to say it like it is, never mind Rajkhowa,
never mind Dutta, never mind all the other Kharkhowa Indians!


*** I have this uncanny feeling that those who look at the lungi-menace as
Assam's only or the most significant problem, are people whose visions are
damaged by religious bigotries, even if they had any to begin with. All they
are capable of is moaning and groaning, bereft of the ability to analyze the
problem and looking at achievable solutions. Just like most things Indian,
they think crying about something is the same thing as doing something about
it!


Best.


cm
























Shantikam hazarika
- Original Message -
From: "SANDIP DUTTA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: >
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Its not a question of what he didn't do.
It could be that he did try to do a few things
but then the question is whether he got any support
from his political bosses
and the rudderless pressure groups.

There are many here who would question the actions
of others without really having contributed
anything concrete themselves.

Rgds,
SD

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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Chan Mahanta]

O' Hazarika:


At 11:57 PM +0530 11/14/06, Shantikam Hazarika wrote:

Exuses are galore. If the chief executive of the state cannot solve the
state's problems, who can? Me?



*** Bhal prosno korise. You ask a good question. I am with you here.



I feel i have contrubuted what has been within my capacity and therefroe I
think i have the right to question others.


*** Again I agree.


But having said all that, allow me to ask Sri Dutta and you too: WHAT 
is the solution to the problem? And what is Sri Rajkhowa's solution? 
Or for that matter all the others who have been crying hoarse over 
the lungi menace for decades on end--what is their solution?



*** If as Sri Dutta speculates :"---It could be that he did try to do 
a few things but then the question is whether he got any support

from his political bosses  and the rudderless pressure groups. "

What are Sri Dutta's recommendations  to get those 'political bosses' and
'rudderless pressure groups ' in line, so that the Chief Secys like 
the Rajkhowas of Assam  can perform their duties and SOLVE the 
problem? And if it is NOT their responsibility, then help them get 
their courage together to say aloud at least WHOSE responsibility it 
is. Funny thing is that I am YET to see anyone who has the b---s to 
say it like it is, never mind Rajkhowa, never mind Dutta, never mind 
all the other Kharkhowa Indians!


*** I have this uncanny feeling that those who look at the 
lungi-menace as Assam's only or the most significant problem, are 
people whose visions are damaged by religious bigotries, even if they 
had any to begin with. All they are capable of is moaning and 
groaning, bereft of the ability to analyze the problem and looking at 
achievable solutions. Just like most things Indian, they think crying 
about something is the same thing as doing something about it!


Best.

cm













Shantikam hazarika
- Original Message -
From: "SANDIP DUTTA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <assamonline@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

Its not a question of what he didn't do.
It could be that he did try to do a few things
but then the question is whether he got any support
from his political bosses
and the rudderless pressure groups.

There are many here who would question the actions
of others without really having contributed
anything concrete themselves.

Rgds,
SD

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Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

I love THAT!
MM


From: "Rajen Barua" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:42:47 -0600

And put a stop to writing Asom and Asomiya please and move on...
Rajen Barua

From: "mc mahant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:58:09 +0530




indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious andlinguistic groups who have been living in the State since timeimmemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of thelanguages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya> --"ARE ASSAMESE"--- we should put a stop to the definition cacophony-and move on.
mm




From:  "ualles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject:  [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:58:05 ->Sentinel, 29th Oct'06>>God Save Asom and the Asomiyas!>JP Rajkhowa(Retd Chief secy)>>The question as to who the Asomiyas are or were, was never raised>during the British Raj or swaadhin Bharat, even when the Assam Accord>on the foreigners issue was signed in 1985 in the presence of the then>Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Every one, including the signatories to>the Accord representing the All Assam Gana Sangram Parishad (AAGSP) ->since disbanded - was apparently aware of the meaning or definition of>"Asomiya". Even if some signatories representing the government 
had>some doubts on the issue, no one considered it appropriate to raise>it, as a matter of prudence, since the uppermost concern of the>sangrami leaders as well as the government representatives seemed to>be to resolve the vexed foreigners issue which eluded a solution for>long six years. The issue remained dormant during the first spell of>the AGP regime which had constituted a Cabinet committee headed by the>then Law Minister Surendra Nath Medhi to go into the matter of>drafting a detailed proposal to submit it to the Central Government>for administrative, legislative and constitutional safeguards for the>Asomiya people in pursuance of the Accord. The Committee's>recommendations were then considered, discussed and debated in the>State Cabinet, after which a consolidated proposal was sent to 
the>Centre. If I remember correctly, the then Advocate General of Assam>Pachu Gopal Barua and AGP MP Dinesh Goswami made valuable>contributions in drafting the proposal.>>Clause 6 of the Assam Accord states: "Constitutional, legislative and>administrative safeguards, as may be appropriate, shall be provided to>protect, preserve and promote the cultural, social, linguistic>identity and heritage of the Assamese people." After submission of the>proposal as mentioned above, the AGP regime appeared to have totally>forgotten about it, as no discussion whatsoever was held with any>Central Ministry for implementation of Clause 6 of the Accord, not to>speak of discussing the proposal.  What had prompted the then Chief>Minister Prafulla Mahanta not to follow up this extremely 
important>clause with the Union Home Minister or the Prime Minister by insisting>on a formal discussion on the State's proposal, only he will be able>to explain. At the bureaucratic level, I remember, the matter was>raised during discussions a number of times, but the mandarins at the>North Block shrewdly avoided the issue, leaving it to the political>masters to handle. But the political masters, both at the Centre and>the State, scrupulously refused to find time for a discussion. After>the AAGSP was disbanded, its constituents, Purbanchalia Loka Parisad>(PLP), Asom Jatiatabadi Yuva Chatra Parisad (AJYCP) and Sadow Asom>Karmachari Parisad (SAKP), also forgot the matter at their>organization levels.>>Though the only sangrami signatory, the All Assam Students' Union>(AASU), remained in the 
focus - which continues till date - its>approach also appears to be a bit lackadaisical one. Thus years passed>by, and during the previous term of the Tarun Gogoi Ministry as AASU>started pursuing the matter with the Centre, the latter desired that>the State Government should intimate the students' body on a>universally accepted definition of "Asomiya" so as to enable the>Centre to process the issues related to the implementation of Clause 6>of the Assam Accord. Nearly four years have since elapsed, but the>Asomiyas and their government (is it of Bangladeshis?) are still>unable to define or elaborate or elucidate as to who is an Asomiya.>>For the survival of the Asomiya people by which I mean all the>indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious and>linguistic groups who have 
been living in the State since time>immemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of the>languages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya, and follow>region-specific manners, customers, dress code, folk dances and music>etc, Clause 6 of the Assam Accord is 

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[Rajen Barua]

And put a stop to writing Asom and Asomiya please and move on...
Rajen Barua

From: "mc mahant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:58:09 +0530



indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious andlinguistic groups who have been living in the State since timeimmemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of thelanguages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya> --"ARE ASSAMESE"--- we should put a stop to the definition cacophony-and move on.
mm




From:  "ualles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject:  [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:58:05 ->Sentinel, 29th Oct'06>>God Save Asom and the Asomiyas!>JP Rajkhowa(Retd Chief secy)>>The question as to who the Asomiyas are or were, was never raised>during the British Raj or swaadhin Bharat, even when the Assam Accord>on the foreigners issue was signed in 1985 in the presence of the then>Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Every one, including the signatories to>the Accord representing the All Assam Gana Sangram Parishad (AAGSP) ->since disbanded - was apparently aware of the meaning or definition of>"Asomiya". Even if some signatories representing the government 
had>some doubts on the issue, no one considered it appropriate to raise>it, as a matter of prudence, since the uppermost concern of the>sangrami leaders as well as the government representatives seemed to>be to resolve the vexed foreigners issue which eluded a solution for>long six years. The issue remained dormant during the first spell of>the AGP regime which had constituted a Cabinet committee headed by the>then Law Minister Surendra Nath Medhi to go into the matter of>drafting a detailed proposal to submit it to the Central Government>for administrative, legislative and constitutional safeguards for the>Asomiya people in pursuance of the Accord. The Committee's>recommendations were then considered, discussed and debated in the>State Cabinet, after which a consolidated proposal was sent to 
the>Centre. If I remember correctly, the then Advocate General of Assam>Pachu Gopal Barua and AGP MP Dinesh Goswami made valuable>contributions in drafting the proposal.>>Clause 6 of the Assam Accord states: "Constitutional, legislative and>administrative safeguards, as may be appropriate, shall be provided to>protect, preserve and promote the cultural, social, linguistic>identity and heritage of the Assamese people." After submission of the>proposal as mentioned above, the AGP regime appeared to have totally>forgotten about it, as no discussion whatsoever was held with any>Central Ministry for implementation of Clause 6 of the Accord, not to>speak of discussing the proposal.  What had prompted the then Chief>Minister Prafulla Mahanta not to follow up this extremely 
important>clause with the Union Home Minister or the Prime Minister by insisting>on a formal discussion on the State's proposal, only he will be able>to explain. At the bureaucratic level, I remember, the matter was>raised during discussions a number of times, but the mandarins at the>North Block shrewdly avoided the issue, leaving it to the political>masters to handle. But the political masters, both at the Centre and>the State, scrupulously refused to find time for a discussion. After>the AAGSP was disbanded, its constituents, Purbanchalia Loka Parisad>(PLP), Asom Jatiatabadi Yuva Chatra Parisad (AJYCP) and Sadow Asom>Karmachari Parisad (SAKP), also forgot the matter at their>organization levels.>>Though the only sangrami signatory, the All Assam Students' Union>(AASU), remained in the 
focus - which continues till date - its>approach also appears to be a bit lackadaisical one. Thus years passed>by, and during the previous term of the Tarun Gogoi Ministry as AASU>started pursuing the matter with the Centre, the latter desired that>the State Government should intimate the students' body on a>universally accepted definition of "Asomiya" so as to enable the>Centre to process the issues related to the implementation of Clause 6>of the Assam Accord. Nearly four years have since elapsed, but the>Asomiyas and their government (is it of Bangladeshis?) are still>unable to define or elaborate or elucidate as to who is an Asomiya.>>For the survival of the Asomiya people by which I mean all the>indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious and>linguistic groups who have 
been living in the State since time>immemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of the>languages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya, and follow>region-specific manners, customers, dress code, folk dances and music>etc, Clause 6 of the Assam Accord is most important. It is more>important than even Clause 5, which deals with detection, deletion,>regularization and deportation(?) of illegal migrants from>Bangladesh. Under Clause 5, only the post-March 24, 1971 Ban

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

>suffer harassment, humiliation and torture in various forms at the>hands of the security forces>
You said it all. Happening ALL  the last 60 years!
mm




From:  "ualles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject:  [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:58:05 ->Sentinel, 29th Oct'06>>God Save Asom and the Asomiyas!>JP Rajkhowa(Retd Chief secy)>>The question as to who the Asomiyas are or were, was never raised>during the British Raj or swaadhin Bharat, even when the Assam Accord>on the foreigners issue was signed in 1985 in the presence of the then>Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Every one, including the signatories to>the Accord representing the All Assam Gana Sangram Parishad (AAGSP) ->since disbanded - was apparently aware of the meaning or definition of>"Asomiya". Even if some signatories representing the government 
had>some doubts on the issue, no one considered it appropriate to raise>it, as a matter of prudence, since the uppermost concern of the>sangrami leaders as well as the government representatives seemed to>be to resolve the vexed foreigners issue which eluded a solution for>long six years. The issue remained dormant during the first spell of>the AGP regime which had constituted a Cabinet committee headed by the>then Law Minister Surendra Nath Medhi to go into the matter of>drafting a detailed proposal to submit it to the Central Government>for administrative, legislative and constitutional safeguards for the>Asomiya people in pursuance of the Accord. The Committee's>recommendations were then considered, discussed and debated in the>State Cabinet, after which a consolidated proposal was sent to 
the>Centre. If I remember correctly, the then Advocate General of Assam>Pachu Gopal Barua and AGP MP Dinesh Goswami made valuable>contributions in drafting the proposal.>>Clause 6 of the Assam Accord states: "Constitutional, legislative and>administrative safeguards, as may be appropriate, shall be provided to>protect, preserve and promote the cultural, social, linguistic>identity and heritage of the Assamese people." After submission of the>proposal as mentioned above, the AGP regime appeared to have totally>forgotten about it, as no discussion whatsoever was held with any>Central Ministry for implementation of Clause 6 of the Accord, not to>speak of discussing the proposal.  What had prompted the then Chief>Minister Prafulla Mahanta not to follow up this extremely 
important>clause with the Union Home Minister or the Prime Minister by insisting>on a formal discussion on the State's proposal, only he will be able>to explain. At the bureaucratic level, I remember, the matter was>raised during discussions a number of times, but the mandarins at the>North Block shrewdly avoided the issue, leaving it to the political>masters to handle. But the political masters, both at the Centre and>the State, scrupulously refused to find time for a discussion. After>the AAGSP was disbanded, its constituents, Purbanchalia Loka Parisad>(PLP), Asom Jatiatabadi Yuva Chatra Parisad (AJYCP) and Sadow Asom>Karmachari Parisad (SAKP), also forgot the matter at their>organization levels.>>Though the only sangrami signatory, the All Assam Students' Union>(AASU), remained in the 
focus - which continues till date - its>approach also appears to be a bit lackadaisical one. Thus years passed>by, and during the previous term of the Tarun Gogoi Ministry as AASU>started pursuing the matter with the Centre, the latter desired that>the State Government should intimate the students' body on a>universally accepted definition of "Asomiya" so as to enable the>Centre to process the issues related to the implementation of Clause 6>of the Assam Accord. Nearly four years have since elapsed, but the>Asomiyas and their government (is it of Bangladeshis?) are still>unable to define or elaborate or elucidate as to who is an Asomiya.>>For the survival of the Asomiya people by which I mean all the>indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious and>linguistic groups who have 
been living in the State since time>immemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of the>languages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya, and follow>region-specific manners, customers, dress code, folk dances and music>etc, Clause 6 of the Assam Accord is most important. It is more>important than even Clause 5, which deals with detection, deletion,>regularization and deportation(?) of illegal migrants from>Bangladesh. Under Clause 5, only the post-March 24, 1971 Bangladeshi>migrants are to be detected, deleted and deported, thereby allowing>lakhs of pre-March 24, 1971 Bangladeshis to be regularized as Indian>citizens, allowing them to enjoy all their rights in Asom.  Obviously,>the intention of the sangrami leaders had never been to include these>millions of regularized 
Bangladeshis in the description "Asomiya" so>as to provide them "constitutional, legislative and administrative>safeguards" in or

Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours

[mc mahant]

indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious andlinguistic groups who have been living in the State since timeimmemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of thelanguages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya> --"ARE ASSAMESE"--- we should put a stop to the definition cacophony-and move on.
mm




From:  "ualles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:  assamonline@yahoogroups.comSubject:  [asom] Assamese Fears and SavioursDate:  Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:58:05 ->Sentinel, 29th Oct'06>>God Save Asom and the Asomiyas!>JP Rajkhowa(Retd Chief secy)>>The question as to who the Asomiyas are or were, was never raised>during the British Raj or swaadhin Bharat, even when the Assam Accord>on the foreigners issue was signed in 1985 in the presence of the then>Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Every one, including the signatories to>the Accord representing the All Assam Gana Sangram Parishad (AAGSP) ->since disbanded - was apparently aware of the meaning or definition of>"Asomiya". Even if some signatories representing the government 
had>some doubts on the issue, no one considered it appropriate to raise>it, as a matter of prudence, since the uppermost concern of the>sangrami leaders as well as the government representatives seemed to>be to resolve the vexed foreigners issue which eluded a solution for>long six years. The issue remained dormant during the first spell of>the AGP regime which had constituted a Cabinet committee headed by the>then Law Minister Surendra Nath Medhi to go into the matter of>drafting a detailed proposal to submit it to the Central Government>for administrative, legislative and constitutional safeguards for the>Asomiya people in pursuance of the Accord. The Committee's>recommendations were then considered, discussed and debated in the>State Cabinet, after which a consolidated proposal was sent to 
the>Centre. If I remember correctly, the then Advocate General of Assam>Pachu Gopal Barua and AGP MP Dinesh Goswami made valuable>contributions in drafting the proposal.>>Clause 6 of the Assam Accord states: "Constitutional, legislative and>administrative safeguards, as may be appropriate, shall be provided to>protect, preserve and promote the cultural, social, linguistic>identity and heritage of the Assamese people." After submission of the>proposal as mentioned above, the AGP regime appeared to have totally>forgotten about it, as no discussion whatsoever was held with any>Central Ministry for implementation of Clause 6 of the Accord, not to>speak of discussing the proposal.  What had prompted the then Chief>Minister Prafulla Mahanta not to follow up this extremely 
important>clause with the Union Home Minister or the Prime Minister by insisting>on a formal discussion on the State's proposal, only he will be able>to explain. At the bureaucratic level, I remember, the matter was>raised during discussions a number of times, but the mandarins at the>North Block shrewdly avoided the issue, leaving it to the political>masters to handle. But the political masters, both at the Centre and>the State, scrupulously refused to find time for a discussion. After>the AAGSP was disbanded, its constituents, Purbanchalia Loka Parisad>(PLP), Asom Jatiatabadi Yuva Chatra Parisad (AJYCP) and Sadow Asom>Karmachari Parisad (SAKP), also forgot the matter at their>organization levels.>>Though the only sangrami signatory, the All Assam Students' Union>(AASU), remained in the 
focus - which continues till date - its>approach also appears to be a bit lackadaisical one. Thus years passed>by, and during the previous term of the Tarun Gogoi Ministry as AASU>started pursuing the matter with the Centre, the latter desired that>the State Government should intimate the students' body on a>universally accepted definition of "Asomiya" so as to enable the>Centre to process the issues related to the implementation of Clause 6>of the Assam Accord. Nearly four years have since elapsed, but the>Asomiyas and their government (is it of Bangladeshis?) are still>unable to define or elaborate or elucidate as to who is an Asomiya.>>For the survival of the Asomiya people by which I mean all the>indigenous people of Asom belonging to different ethnic, religious and>linguistic groups who have 
been living in the State since time>immemorial and some for centuries, and who speak one or more of the>languages of the ethnic communities, including Asomiya, and follow>region-specific manners, customers, dress code, folk dances and music>etc, Clause 6 of the Assam Accord is most important. It is more>important than even Clause 5, which deals with detection, deletion,>regularization and deportation(?) of illegal migrants from>Bangladesh. Under Clause 5, only the post-March 24, 1971 Bangladeshi>migrants are to be detected, deleted and deported, thereby allowing>lakhs of pre-March 24, 1971 Bangladeshis to be regularized as Indian>citizens, allowing them to enjoy all their rights in Asom.  Obviously,>the intention of the sangrami leader