Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
harmonic;221081 Wrote: Regarding the test. I have read that when you connect several different sources to one preamp the differences between the sources get masked away. Is there eny one else that have heard about this ?.Anything to do with that http://www.bursonaudio.com/Burson_Audio_Buffer.htm ? -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Very brave taking on the High Priests of Hi Fi. I especially loved the guy that said he didn't want any deaf customers anyway. If you don't hear what the Priests say that you should hear, this is the response you get. A lot of high end users get caught up in the religions mysticism and rites and never do what you two did. Great job. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Regarding the test. I have read that when you connect several different sources to one preamp the differences between the sources get masked away. Is there eny one else that have heard about this ?. A side note i have a transporter but at the moment im using a stock sb3 straight into the same amp using no preamp as i would with the TP , the sound is no where as refinemt and the bass and dynamics are lacking massivly. regards -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
harmonic;221081 Wrote: Regarding the test. I have read that when you connect several different sources to one preamp the differences between the sources get masked away. Is there eny one else that have heard about this ?. I would guess a large majority of audiophiles have more than one source plugged into their preamps. Evidently none of them have good high-end sound? It's remarkable how anything which might make it possible to do an objective comparison is said to reduce the sound quality... A side note i have a transporter but at the moment im using a stock sb3 straight into the same amp using no preamp as i would with the TP , the sound is no where as refinemt and the bass and dynamics are lacking massivly. You should try a blind comparison :-). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Well i was just saying that i read somwhere that if you connect several digital sources to on preamp somthing happens. I have no real life experince . I respect your oppinion you have made after that test. But audio is a tricky buisnessfirst of some people honestly can here a improvment in a top notch higend system compared to there cheap car stereo. On time where i had a lyngdorf cd-1 and compared it to a 60 dollar philips dvd player working as transports into a lyngdorf tda2200 with roomperfect roomcorrectioni truly liked the sound of the dvd player more , and told every one about it. What i found out was that it was the xlr cable i use on the cd-1 that caused the bright sound and the singelended i used on the philips was just more smooth sounding. When i shifted cables i the roles where shifted. Its commen knowledge that the SOURCE FIRST theory is the truth and is easly demonstrated , i heard it at a linn dealer where the compared a lessser source into great amp vs better source into worse amp . It was throug a preamp so you could a/b test it and it was very easyly heard The better source demonstrated that the amplifire have the least to do with great sound. I also heard it at a nother dealer that have many higend amplifires the all sounded very much the same e on his tweaked orheous frontendsystem but with a lesser frontend the differences in the amplifires wher much more aparent. Im not telling you what you heard , but what alerts me is that there where no difference heard at all. If the transporter with state of the art super dac , higekval power supplys ,better every thing has no sonic differences compared to a stock sb3 , then i think ALOT more people would have come up with the conclusion you have. thanks opaqueice;221105 Wrote: I would guess a large majority of audiophiles have more than one source plugged into their preamps. Evidently none of them have good high-end sound? It's remarkable how anything which might make it possible to do an objective comparison is said to reduce the sound quality... You should try a blind comparison :-). -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Ooops, sorry He he :) -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
So your point about my bad taste was what exactly? -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
I thought you were saying I didn't have good taste in audio components ;) When I re - read it, I guess it can be interpreted either way. Yes, InnerSound make some really, really good gear. The tube amp I knew about (I know Gary) but I have other things I'd rather spend my money on nowadays, you know, like a BMW or something ;) Peace ET -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
EvilTed;218644 Wrote: I thought you were saying I didn't have good taste in audio components ;) When I re - read it, I guess it can be interpreted either way. How about a simple I'm sorry? ;) -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
johann;218695 Wrote: How about a simple I'm sorry? ;) OK, I'm sorry (on so many levels...) -- occam occam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
occam;218701 Wrote: OK, I'm sorry (on so many levels...) I thought it was clear that was intended for EvilTed but I'm sorry for not pointing that out clearer than just quoting him. :) -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Johann - It was. The difficultly of the internet is that we often misinterpret other's posts, at least I occasionally do so. Regardless of the fact that Ted is evil, occasionally misinterprets posts, he still has good taste in audio components. -- occam occam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Have you ever heard an InnerSound setup? Stereophile class A all the way and the best hybrid electrostatic setup I've ever heard... -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/reviews/stereophile_inner-eros-mk3.htm oh yeah and my really bad taste includes the following analog front end... Michel Orbe MK2 + mods SME IV Koetsu Rosewood Signature EAR phono stage I happen to like Audioquest cable for a couple of important reasons. It is a high quality solid core, screened interconnect. I made the switch to solid core cable in my audio rigs in 1983 and will never use anything stranded. AudioQuest cable is available on Ebay for 1/3 of it's sale price. My XLR interconnects were $79 for a meter pair, brand new. I was going to try using my SB3 with an Audio Horizons tube DAC, but the sound of the Transporter is so good, I'm just going to get one for myself. ET -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
EvilTed;218371 Wrote: Have you ever heard an InnerSound setup? Stereophile class A all the way and the best hybrid electrostatic setup I've ever heard... Here's my friend's (Innersound's former marketing director) Kaya system with the panels driven by the never released Innersound Itube 150wpc tube amp. The Kaya's (and your's) crossover/bass amp provides stunning bass authority and clarity. Its among the very best systems I've ever heard. He is primarily a vinyl guy; the Redpoint has been upgraded since the picture. The pre is a CAT, +---+ |Filename: innersound.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3104| +---+ -- occam occam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
I borrowed a friends Transporter to compare. I ran it for a couple of weeks with AudioQuest Python RCA interconnects but today replaced these with AudioQuest King Cobra XLR connectors. The difference using balanced connections is night and day and has brought the Transporter to life. This is the best I've ever heard digital sound :) System: InnerSound Eros MK3 active speakers InnerSound pre-amp with balanced inputs InnerSound ESL amplifier for panels Transporter running over GigE wired connection using FLAC encoded files server from a home built NAS running SlimServer. -- EvilTed EvilTed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11696 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
My thought on this whole thing is that it proves one important fact. Technology is advancing so rapidly that the divide between audiophiles and audio enthusiasts is diverging more than ever. If we have to figure out whether a guy sitting in front of the cabinet or if the levels are exactly matched to the nth degree to determine which product is just slightly better, then the answer is clear. There just isn't enough difference between good gear and fantastic gear these days. And apparently good gear can start at $300. I had my dealer A/B the Transporter vs. a Linn Unidisk at my house with my new 2 channel Linn Artikulat system. If there was an obvious difference, I think I should have noticed it since the system is more than capable of demonstrating flaws. I didn't. He said the transporter sounded amazing - and it was not in his best interest to admit that, obviously. I've also A/B the TP DAC balanced out into my Bryston DP-26 vs. using the DAC in the DP-26 and honestly, they sound only a hair different, but I can't even tell you which one is better. Certainly I wouldn't pay good money for that difference. So, yes I could have eliminated all the possible reasons that it wasn't obvious, but then I'd have to take a step back and ask why do I need to go to such great lengths when I will never actually experience a difference day to day? I do sit and listen as a hobby and I do often listen analytically unfortunately (instead of just listening to the music). But I still don't think the differences are earth shattering. Only the dedicated audiophile would let it bother them enough to go through all that and certainly to pay the difference. Obviously if you are loaded, you'd probably just buy the best sounding gear you can regardless of price, but that is a special case. The others just have a special bug for audio perfection that most of society doesn't. I'm more and more inclined to believe placement/room are your biggest bangs for the buck. Of course I say that having my room as my biggest deficiency... -- thomsens thomsens's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1352 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
PhilNYC;203104 Wrote: Just to be clear, when we compared the SB3 analog out to the Dodson, I was able to identify the Dodson every time within the first few seconds of listening. That test wasn't even close to level matched - which made it pretty easy to tell the difference even for me :-). What was more interesting for me was the comparison between the Dodson and my Lite DAC AH - which was level matched as far as we could tell (we didn't check with a meter). Using Phil's music he could reliably hear a difference, whereas I would have been guessing. However that DAC is the only digital source I've owned that I could distinguish from others, mainly due to the fact that it distorts when plugged into some amps. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
SoftwireEngineer;202987 Wrote: Surprising thing is PhilNYC says differences in digital components is not that much, when the Dodson he sells costs thousands of dollars. Just to be clear, when we compared the SB3 analog out to the Dodson, I was able to identify the Dodson every time within the first few seconds of listening. But yes, I do generally think that digital sources have the least differences compared to every other component in the audio system chain. IMHO, differences in speakers are the greatest, followed by preamps, then amps, and finally digital sources. This particular listening test notwithstanding, my opinion of digital sources is that the differences tend to be in the level of grain and harshness in the sound. And to me, those are aspects of sound reproduction that make/break the listenability of a system to me. Despite the audiophile in me, I could be very happy with a wide range of systems as long as those systems weren't harsh or fatiguing. I do have some additional theories as to why this particular listening test came out with the results it did, but I'm not going to get into them because they are just theories and I don't want to come off as trying to make excuses. As I've mentioned before, I've done blind tests like this before in my system with digital components and have been able to reliably detect differences. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;202840 Wrote: I don't see why you find it surprising. It's certainly in line with the results of almost all other controlled tests on digital sources. If this went to court, you wouldn't be allowed on the jury :-) I.e. couldn't the expectation to hear no difference mask actual differences? I believe you also brainwashed PhilNYC! -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Skunk;202906 Wrote: If this went to court, you wouldn't be allowed on the jury :-) I.e. couldn't the expectation to hear no difference mask actual differences? I believe you also brainwashed PhilNYC! I'd be an an expert witness for the prosecution :-). An expectation bias is possible in my case, although I tried really hard to hear something. And I wasn't at all sure what to expect - if I had been I wouldn't have gone to all the trouble to do this. And Phil *certainly* wasn't expecting this result - just the contrary - and our third listener was ambivalent to begin with. There's probably a better way to do this kind of test, which is to determine a threshold rather than a yes or no. For example if you could take the signal coming from the TP and the one coming from the SB, take their difference, and use that to create a signal where the difference was magnified many times, you could then gradually reduce the difference back towards the actual level and see at what point it ceased to be audible. While purists could always argue that this process introduced garbage that made the result meaningless, if the answer was that the difference needed to be magnified many times over it would still be pretty convincing (to non-fanatics at least). Actually that's maybe not such a bad idea - after all, whatever garbage is introduced can only make it easier to distinguish between the original and the new signal. So take two signals, say SB and TP. Compare pure SB to SB + g(TP-SB), starting with g1. Now gradually reduce g, and see at what g you can no longer distinguish. If it's at, say, g=10, that's pretty compelling. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Well..I read the first posts in this thread. But I dont see anything about how the music was chosen and how familiar the listeners were with the music. (Did I miss it ?) Maybe PhilNYC went into this experiment with too much confidence, that he can pick out the SB3 easily. Maybe the other parts of the system were too good, so you cannot tell the difference that much. Surprising thing is PhilNYC says differences in digital components is not that much, when the Dodson he sells costs thousands of dollars. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Come on, guys..no difference between a SB3 and Transporter with both digital or analog out ? ! I have tough time rationalizing this, maybe with digital out, it is probably the jitter reduction in the DAC that is evening out, but no difference in analog out ? !!! Did you guys really play the test music sighted in SB3 and Transporter to get an idea ? I read about this in audiocircle and am posting here after a long time. When I first go the SB3 its digital out was inferior to my Philips 963sa (very softsounding) ..but after Bolder digital mods, it was superior..much more tighter sounding bass and more soundstage..but all these were impressions..so curious on how you guys did this test.. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
SoftwireEngineer;202791 Wrote: Come on, guys..no difference between a SB3 and Transporter with both digital or analog out ? ! I have tough time rationalizing this, maybe with digital out, it is probably the jitter reduction in the DAC that is evening out, but no difference in analog out ? !!! Did you guys really play the test music sighted in SB3 and Transporter to get an idea ? I read about this in audiocircle and am posting here after a long time. When I first go the SB3 its digital out was inferior to my Philips 963sa (very softsounding) ..but after Bolder digital mods, it was superior..much more tighter sounding bass and more soundstage..but all these were impressions..so curious on how you guys did this test.. I think the posts on the first page describe how we did it pretty thoroughly. I don't see why you find it surprising. It's certainly in line with the results of almost all other controlled tests on digital sources. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
tomjtx;200242 Wrote: I will PM you Tom- Thanks for the PM. It seems the traveling modified TP you heard went to a TP user in CA, who was blown away by the improvement over his stock unit. He purchased the modified TP. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
jhm731;201268 Wrote: Tom- Thanks for the PM. It seems the traveling modified TP you heard went to a TP user in CA, who was blown away by the improvement over his stock unit. He purchased the modified TP. I wonder if the Cali guy was using the rca out. I did hear a difference with the rca outs between the 2 units. I think it would be a good value to mod TP if you don't have the option of going balanced. If I had heard only rca I would likely have bought the mod. My blind tests were done with a high end dealer friend of mine who has a great ear. He carries Rowland , Watts ,Ayre and Slimdevices among many others. He didn't hear a difference between stock and modded through the balanced outs. He was very interested in the idea of modding TP . In my close to two weeks of sighted listening I didn't hear a difference, balanced. This was with Rowland into Watt/Puppys so it is a pretty revealing, high res system. I am interested to hear the different mods this modder did to double uglies TP. DU loves his and he has a great system. Right now I am guitar rich and cash poor :-) Soon as I sell a guitar I plan to audition the mod that DU has. I wouldn't want to have the modder send me a unit if I didn't have the cash to buy if I liked it. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200119 Wrote: I couldn't hear any difference, either between the TP and SB3 as transports or as analogue sources, despite trying very hard - several times I thought I did hear something, only to lose it quickly. My friend (who's a certified second generation audionut) was also unable to hear any difference. Phil thought he could detect a slight difference in soudstage width, so he tried guessing which was TP and which was SB3. On the first try (comparing them as transports) he made one guess, but what he thought was the TP, with the wider soundstage, turned out to be the SB3. We then hooked up the analogue outs, where you might think there'd be a bigger difference - and again (on one guess) the one Phil thought was the TP was the SB. On the final attempt Phil again thought one had a slightly larger soundstage, and - based on his previous attempts - guessed it was the SB... but it turned out to be the TP. It doesn't surprise me that there was no difference between them when used as digital transports, but your findings when using the analogue outputs don't match my own. Here are a few things you didn't mention that I think might have some bearing: 1. Were you using the Transporter's balanced or unbalanced outputs? 2. Was the input downstream of the TP/SB3 balanced or unbalanced? 3. Was there a preamp in the signal path, or were the TP and SB3 going straight to a power amp? If there was a preamp, what make/model? 4. Were any other processing units involved (eg. Tact)? -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
adamslim;200160 Wrote: Presumably now that we have your definitive views on this point, your point is made and you'll not mention DBT ever again on this forum? ;) In fact you probably have no need of the audiophile forum at all ... -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Interesting findings. That's quite different to my own experiences, where I've found that just tweaking CD transports can make a good and noticeable difference. Guess we all listen in different ways. -- Mr_Sukebe SB+, Behringer 2496DEQ, Bel Canto DAC2, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
I can't have read this correctly. Are you saying you couldn't hear any difference between the analogue outs of the SB3 and those of the Transporter? MC -- ModelCitizen It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Transporter Bryston 4B ST PMC OB1s SB3 NAIM NAC 102 NAIM NAP 180 Shahinian Arcs http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Here's the system that was used: Preamp: Blue Circle BC3000mkII w/GZPZ power supply Power Amp: Blue Circle BC206 hybrid stereo amp Speakers: Focus Audio FS-888 Speaker cables: Acoustic Zen Hologram II Interconnects: Acoustic Zen Absolute and Silver Reference II Digital cables: Acoustic Zen Silver Byte and MC^2 Power Conditioning: Audience adeptResponse Admittedly, I was really surprised with the results, as this was not the first listening test I had performed between these and many other digital sources, and historically I've been able to identify differences blindfolded pretty easily between SB and Transporter. Thinking about it, I realized that three things have changed in my system since I last did a SB vs. TP listening test, so perhaps these also had some effect: 1 - Speaker positioning (better positioning now, achieving better sound). 2 - Power conditioner on amp (used to be direct to the wall). 3 - Changed Slimserver filetype conversion settings. Previously was set on ALAC-FLAC. Now set on ALAC-WAV. Changes #1 and #2 allowed my system to achieve better resolution and detail, so you would expect those to expose more differences, not hide them. Change #3, however, is a significant change...one that I found sounded better to me on the Transporter, and I had not done a direct comparison on the SB prior to this. So perhaps there is some performance difference in how the SB/Transporter handle FLAC versus WAV? Anyways, it was a fun afternoon...! -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
PhilNYC;200182 Wrote: Here's the system that was used: Preamp: Blue Circle BC3000mkII w/GZPZ power supply Power Amp: Blue Circle BC206 hybrid stereo amp Speakers: Focus Audio FS-888 Speaker cables: Acoustic Zen Hologram II Interconnects: Acoustic Zen Absolute and Silver Reference II Digital cables: Acoustic Zen Silver Byte and MC^2 Power Conditioning: Audience adeptResponse When comparing the analog outputs, we had each unit hooked into a different input on my preamp, and switched between inputs with both SB and TP playing the same thing. Thanks for the clarification about how things were connected. It's still not clear whether the balanced or unbalanced outputs were used on the Transporter. Also, from what I've been able to find out, the BC3000 has an option for balanced inputs - does yours have this option? The reason I ask is that in my experience, balanced connections seem to impart some kind of solidity to the sound. Using the TP with its unbalanced outputs may not be getting the very best out of it. I have one other comment. I've never heard the BC3000, and it is obviously a very highly regarded preamp, BUT... In my experience, preamps are the electronic components which tend to have the greatest personality in a stereo system. I note also that the BC3000 is a valve (tube) design, and valve circuits do tend to be less neutral than solid-state. Is it possible that the BC3000's own characteristics are masking the differences between TP and SB3? My own experince is that the difference between TP and SB2, when fed direct to power amps, is both large and obvious. (One problem I have is that it's virtually impossible to level match comparisons when switching between an unbalanced SB2 and a balanced TP going direct to power amps, so of course I could well be imagining these differences). -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
cliveb;200142 Wrote: Here are a few things you didn't mention that I think might have some bearing: 1. Were you using the Transporter's balanced or unbalanced outputs? 2. Was the input downstream of the TP/SB3 balanced or unbalanced? 3. Was there a preamp in the signal path, or were the TP and SB3 going straight to a power amp? If there was a preamp, what make/model? 4. Were any other processing units involved (eg. Tact)? Phil answered most of these, but: 1) unbalanced 2) not sure, but I think unbalanced 3) Blue Circle BC3000mkII w/GZPZ power supply 4) no adamslim;200160 Wrote: Presumably now that we have your definitive views on this point, your point is made and you'll not mention DBT ever again on this forum? ;) Probably - but I'm not making any promises :-). Honestly, I've mostly lost interest in these debates. I don't argue with people over religious beliefs either. However if someone comes along and says publically, you have to get a new power supply for the SB3, it's the most important change you could make (and someone did say that recently over on another forum) I'm not sure I'll be able to contain myself, as I consider that actually harmful. It misleads everyone reading it, and I find that hard to accept. Patrick Dixon;200163 Wrote: In fact you probably have no need of the audiophile forum at all ... That might be nice for you, huh? I'd also be very uncomfortable if I were in your position. ModelCitizen;200177 Wrote: I can't have read this correctly. Are you saying you couldn't hear any difference between the analogue outs of the SB3 and those of the Transporter? Yes. PhilNYC;200182 Wrote: Anyways, it was a fun afternoon...! Thanks again, Phil! -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
cliveb;200190 Wrote: My own experince is that the difference between TP and SB2, when fed direct to power amps, is both large and obvious. (One problem I have is that it's virtually impossible to level match comparisons when switching between an unbalanced SB2 and a balanced TP going direct to power amps, so of course I could well be imagining these differences). It's impossible to do these comparisons reliably without level matching. We experienced that yesterday when we tried to compare the Dodson to the SB3 analogue out. However as far as anyone could tell the unbalanced analogue outs of the SB3 and the TP were identical, both in level and otherwise. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Clive, I do happen to agree with you that preamps have the most personality in a system... My BC3000 is single-ended, and we used single-ended outputs from the Transporter (and SB3, obviously!). Also, Blue Circle tubed preamps are actually very neutral-sounding when compared to the likes of tubed preamps from BAT, Modwright and TAD (these are ones that I've actually compared it to). As I mentioned above, I've done blind listening tests before in this same setup minus the changes stated, and differences were heard quite easily...so I'm scratching my head a little bit here as well. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Btw - if there's anyone else here in the NYC area who is interested in coming over to do a listening test, give me a shout... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
PhilNYC wrote: Btw - if there's anyone else here in the NYC area who is interested in coming over to do a listening test, give me a shout... Unstated by PhilNYC is the usual warning: If you listen to a great sounding system, you will probably want to upgrade your own. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200191 Wrote: That might be nice for you, huh? I'd also be very uncomfortable if I were in your position. Why so? You haven't heard what I do and I'm not interested in deaf customers anyway! -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
In a blind test here Transporter balanced outs were easy to discern from it's rca outs. From reading op's description the test at my house appears to have been as well constructed and went on for some time. I was comparing a modded TP to a stock. Then I compared the modded TP's rca to it's xlr: the xlr was identifiable Same results with the stock TP. In both cases we felt the xlr sounded better. Modded TP xlr V stockTP xlr : could not tell a difference either blind or sighted. Absolutely failed that blind test and wasn't tempted to mod my TP. I used a balanced pre amp and levels were matched with rat shack spl. All I can say is that at that time , in my system, 2 people were able to hear differences. I wouldn't want to assume any more than that. I don't think my results would invalidate other's results or vice versa. Thare are so many variables involved in all kinds of tests it is hard to draw definitive conclusions. If I can get my friend back over with his spl meter we can do it again with the SB3. (if he brings a good wine :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Another thought...below is a picture of my setup (prior to getting a Transporter, but basically you get the idea...equipment racks sit between the speakers). During our listening test, there was someone sitting in front of the left rack managing the input switching. It's a possibility that having a person/body at that location was affecting the acoustics which impacted things like imaging, soundstaging, etc. +---+ |Filename: SystemMain.JPG.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2773| +---+ -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200191 Wrote: That might be nice for you, huh? I'd also be very uncomfortable if I were in your position. Odd call. I just got one of Patrick's SB+s and it sounds amazing. If the TP sounds the same as the SB I'd be very comfortable indeed in his position!! Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush Snr, 1998 adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
PhilNYC;200207 Wrote: It's a possibility that having a person/body at that location was affecting the acoustics which impacted things like imaging, soundstaging, etc. That's possible, and no matter how well you design the test there are always going to be factors like that people will point to. We didn't do this carefully at all, because (at least for my part) I just wanted to know how significant the difference was. It sounds like a number of people feel XLR is possible to distinguish from RCA. So that will certainly go on my list as something to test for myself when possible. One question - it's sometimes possible to hear the difference even unbalanced cables make in the noise floor. I've tried this, and playing a silent or very quiet track at high volume you hear a different timbre in the noise with different cables. But it's totally impossible to hear when playing normal music at normal volumes. Cliveb and Tom, how would you characterize the balanced versus single-ended difference - was it a noise floor issue like that, or was it a significant change in the music? Did one clearly sound better? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200220 Wrote: That's possible, and no matter how well you design the test there are always going to be factors like that people will point to. We didn't do this carefully at all, because (at least for my part) I just wanted to know how significant the difference was. It sounds like a number of people feel XLR is possible to distinguish from RCA. So that will certainly go on my list as something to test for myself when possible. One question - it's sometimes possible to hear the difference even unbalanced cables make in the noise floor. I've tried this, and playing a silent or very quiet track at high volume you hear a different timbre in the noise with different cables. But it's totally impossible to hear when playing normal music at normal volumes. Cliveb and Tom, how would you characterize the balanced versus single-ended difference - was it a noise floor issue like that, or was it a significant change in the music? Did one clearly sound better? The balanced had less sibilance and had a smoother top end overall w/o less detail. Violin and classical guitar sounded more natural to me. Vocals sounded more natural. With ensemble music the air and sense of space was better to my ears. I know these descriptions are unscientific but that is the best way I can describe what I heard. One of the most interesting observations is that I always wanted to listen to the balanced longer w/o knowing it was balanced. I got lstener fatigue with the rca , especially as the session wore on. In the end we just tested to see how long I listened to one over the other. I was reluctant to switch away from balanced and quck to leave rca. Very interesting although I don't know what that means other than the balanced was not fatiguing. I have wondered if people that think TP is bright and agressive have heard it balanced. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200220 Wrote: Cliveb and Tom, how would you characterize the balanced versus single-ended difference - was it a noise floor issue like that, or was it a significant change in the music? Did one clearly sound better? I hate trying to use audiophile terminology, but here goes. To my ears, the difference is that balanced operation somehow makes things sound more solid, meatier, more organic. The timbres of instruments have greater texture. For reasons I can't fathom, bass seems better defined. Balanced definitely sounds better to me, but of course better is a subjective term - I have no idea which is more accurate. Speculating, I wonder whether even short runs of unbalanced interconnect are vulnerable to interference - not at a consciously obvious level, but perhaps enough to smear very low level detail. It's the only explanation that begins to make sense to me. And finally, bear in mind that these observations are within the context of my own system - a pair of ATC SCM100A active monitors, which have built-in power amps with balanced inputs. The interconnects (whether balanced or unbalanced) are about 5 metres, so they probably count as medium length - perhaps long enough that unbalanced is at a disadvantage. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
You can use the ART (Applied Research and Technology) Cleanbox that balances rca outs and converts them to XLR. You can buy it at any musical instrument retailer like Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, Guitar Center, Zzounds, American Musical Supply, etc. -- mortslim mortslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11039 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
tomjtx;200206 Wrote: In a blind test here Transporter balanced outs were easy to discern from it's rca outs. From reading op's description the test at my house appears to have been as well constructed and went on for some time. I was comparing a modded TP to a stock. Then I compared the modded TP's rca to it's xlr: the xlr was identifiable Same results with the stock TP. In both cases we felt the xlr sounded better. Modded TP xlr V stockTP xlr : could not tell a difference either blind or sighted. Absolutely failed that blind test and wasn't tempted to mod my TP. I used a balanced pre amp and levels were matched with rat shack spl. All I can say is that at that time , in my system, 2 people were able to hear differences. I wouldn't want to assume any more than that. I don't think my results would invalidate other's results or vice versa. Thare are so many variables involved in all kinds of tests it is hard to draw definitive conclusions. If I can get my friend back over with his spl meter we can do it again with the SB3. (if he brings a good wine :-) Who modified the TP you tested? -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
jhm731;200241 Wrote: Who modified the TP you tested? I will PM you -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Cheers opaqueice PhilNYC Good test, interesting results, not what I would have thought. Just thinking out of the box, scenario.. Could it be possible that the SB sends out all the details of the TP but not so well, and Phil's setup somehow picks up all the tiny weeny details..?? If Phil was to mess up the setup somewhat maybe putting in a freebie IC or switch back the 3 changes, maybe all the tiny weeny details of the SB would get misslayed and the TP much stronger/better signal would still pass through..?? Just a thought :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Regarding the balance outputs, it uses higher voltage output, using TWO optamps. Its the same Opamp used on single ended which uses ONE Opamp. This is the reason some perfer balanced sound from the Transporter. Keep in mind balance outputs and single ended componented are not created equal. Some fake a balance output, and some uses diffrent types of Optamps giving you a huge diffrence in the sound presentation. Esoteric does this for some bizzare reason. Limiting factors of one able to tell the diffrence is ones hearing and system performance level... Anthony -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
You have my deepest respect, excellent test ! A lot of people do not hear the difference in digital outputs from SB3 and Transporter into the same dac, or an SB3 going wireless with a lossless file and a Krell cd players digital output playing the same cd, and still lots of people are hard pressed to hear differences between SB 3 analogue outputs and a middleclass cd players output. I think this is good, at least we are going somewhere with our perfect sound forever then And, one guy sitting in front of the rack is not going to ruin anything, come on ! Did he move out of the way when the SB3 was playing then... -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Anthony, thanks for that clarification, that certainly would seem to be a reasonable explanation for the difference. Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
opaqueice;200192 Wrote: It's impossible to do these comparisons reliably without level matching. We experienced that yesterday when we tried to compare the Dodson to the SB3 analogue out. However as far as anyone could tell the unbalanced analogue outs of the SB3 and the TP were identical in level. If he heard differences it would certainly be an issue. But since he didn't hear differences I don't think it's that big a deal. As a transport the levels should be the same anyway. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
cliveb;200226 Wrote: I hate trying to use audiophile terminology, but here goes. To my ears, the difference is that balanced operation somehow makes things sound more solid, meatier, more organic. The timbres of instruments have greater texture. For reasons I can't fathom, bass seems better defined. Balanced definitely sounds better to me, but of course better is a subjective term - I have no idea which is more accurate. Speculating, I wonder whether even short runs of unbalanced interconnect are vulnerable to interference - not at a consciously obvious level, but perhaps enough to smear very low level detail. It's the only explanation that begins to make sense to me. And finally, bear in mind that these observations are within the context of my own system - a pair of ATC SCM100A active monitors, which have built-in power amps with balanced inputs. The interconnects (whether balanced or unbalanced) are about 5 metres, so they probably count as medium length - perhaps long enough that unbalanced is at a disadvantage. I think as a digital transport the tests are valid. But I have to agree about the balanced vs unbalanced on the analog outputs when ever I've had the option, balanced analog was always better. The noise floor completely disappears. You don't even know you have noise on the unbalanced until you compare them. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Anne;200271 Wrote: And, one guy sitting in front of the rack is not going to ruin anything, come on ! Did he move out of the way when the SB3 was playing then... Actually, given the amount of change I hear in my system when moving the speakers even just a couple of inches, to me, this is one of the more likely scenarios. It wouldn't turn a huge difference into an inperceiveable one, but it could possible turn a subtle change into a hard to perceive one. And no, he/I did not move out of the way when the SB3 was playing...moving out of the way would have exposed to the listener which input was selected. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Very interesting test... I have been listening side-by-side to a Transporter (XLR out) vs an SB3-digital coax-Bryston BP25DA (DAC). I was listening to a variety of FLAC files of EAC ripped CDs. Through a balanced headphone rig, the only difference I could hear a slightly wider soundstage (n.b., I hadn't read this thread at this point), and maybe the Tranporter was slightly brighter. When I switched over to my speaker rig (4B-SST-Watt Puppy 7s) I really couldn't hear much difference at all. This is probably because my listening room is an acoustic disaster (concrete floors, lots of glass, etc). Then I switced on the Inguz filter and all of the sudden the differences between the two systems became surprisingly audible again, more so than through my headphone rig. (Soundstage width in particular). Made me want to make the Transporter a permanent fixture in my speaker rig. Obviously, if the room correction is working, the most likely explanation is that I was hearing the sources more 'truly'. I had another thought, though. If I read things correctly, when I listen to my FLAC-encoded CD files without Inguz at fixed digital volume out, the DACs would be working at 16-bit, whereas with the Inguz plugin, everything comes out at 24-bit (think this is right). Does anyone have a data on whether DACs perform significantly differently at different bit-depths (SNR, jitter)? Could it have anything to do with up-sampling (Bryston DAC) vs not (Transporter)? (BTW, I realized a fairer test would have been Transporter XLR out vs Transporter digital coax into the Bryston DAC). muski -- muski muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Thanks for your excellent report! Your findings are exactly what I have been suspecting for some time now. There isn't really any significant difference between SB3 and TP, specially when driving an external DAC (using conventional SPDIF). Now, it would be interesting to compare a SB3 driving an external DAC via SPDIF and a TP driving a DAC using the word clock interface. Ideally, the DAC would be the same model. The comparison would be made by simply switching inputs. -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. It's certainly in line with my experience with digital audio sources. While you sometimes catch a lot of flack (flac? :) ) around here for your objectivist leanings I'm appreciative of your contributions (and usually in complete agreement). -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
