[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell Lute Tutor Pieces

[Arto Wikla]

I second Rob's comment. Thanks Ernst!

Arto

On 3.5.2020 12.31, Rob MacKillop wrote:
>Your Scribd page has amazing treasures, Ernst!
>Rob MacKillop
>
>On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 10:19, <[1]fischer...@aon.at> wrote:
>
> Dear lute friends,
> As you most probably know, the "Burwell Lute Tutor" is a
>  manuscript
> tutor for the baroque lute. The manuscript is Miss Mary Burwell's
>  (born
> 1654) copy of a method written by an Englishman (the name Mr.
>  John
> Rogers has been suggested) who claims was himself a pupil of the
>  French
> Ennemond Gaultier. The teacher corrected Miss Burwell's copy of
>  the
> text and filled in the music examples. Both the "Burwell Lute
>  Tutor"
> and "The Lute Made Easie" (by Thomas Mace, London, 1676) are two
>  very
> authentic and surviving sources of its time teaching in great
>  detail
> from A to Z how to play the baroque lute.
> For teaching practice, the manuscript contains examples of
>  French-style
> lute pieces, mainly fragments and sometimes individual bars only.
>  The
> music examples are chaotic, with both teacher and pupil
>  contributing to
> mistakes Some of the pieces are known, and concordances exist in
>  other
> lute manuscripts, other pieces are new and unique.
> Over the last months or so I tried playing nearly all pieces
>  after I
> identified (if possible), corrected and completed majority of the
> pieces from the Burwell Lute Tutor.
> Please find here the link to my compilation of baroque lute
>  pieces from
> the "Burwell Lute Tutor":
> [1][2]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
> Please stay healthy and resist Corona!
> Ernst Bernhard ("viennalute") from Vienna.
> --
>  References
> 1. [3]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at
>2. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>3. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Mimmo,

if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I 
hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic 
version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz 
arclute, great stuff.


And big thanks for your invaluable work!

Arto

On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:

Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer ones.
at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of gut.
I will do some samples in advance.
Mimmo




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Hi

My first impressions of the Aquila loaded nylgut strings are very good 
(archlute cc, G and F; 2x5th, 6th and 7th).


My 1st check:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7boXtpffL0=youtu.be

And 3 recorded real pieces:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7q2jxMK3Q=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yspjfd8HIlc=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ekVyr2BHI=youtu.be

And much more use in continuo...

I recommend!

Arto

On 01/02/17 23:33, Rob MacKillop wrote:

Hi David,

I'm hugely impressed with the new Aquila Loaded Nylgut - see their website for 
details. After three days they settled quickly into tuning, and I rarely have 
to tweak them. Good sound too.

Rob MacKillop


On 1 Feb 2017, at 21:25, David Rastall  wrote:

It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long hiatus. 
 It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of conventional 
wisdom concerning stringing.  I’m playing an 11c lute currently strung with 
silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles.  I’m not so much 
bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can refresh my 
memory:  what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which is not 
downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the silver-wounds?

David R



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: (more readable version) Question about luthiers

[Arto Wikla]

Hi Robin,

I have 3 of them. Here are my very first tests of them, just when I got 
them home:


Hoffmann 11-courser (28.10.2011)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJogB6wxB3U

Venere 7-courser (23.3.2012)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5lzPnVZl_ofeature=youtu.be

Dieffopruchar 10-courser (5.7.2013)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZHYkv7Nsgsfeature=youtu.be

His lutes have clear and strong sound that start sounding fast.

Perhaps this helps?

All the best

Arto

On 14/09/14 11:34, Robin Rolfhamre wrote:


Thank you for your helpful responses, Dieter and Thomas :)

Does anyone have experience with Lauri Niskanen's lutes? Feel free to 
contact me off-list as well.


Best
Robin





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Svejk Sonata (ms. Podebrady Jelinik)

[Arto Wikla]

   Hi lutenists,
   after having read the great book by J. Hasek, The Good Soldier Svejk,
   I had to play some Czech music... ;-)
   The Sonata is just 3 pieces on consecutive pages in the Czech
   manuscript Podebrady Jelinik (CZ-PnmE36), p. 48-51. The only real
   connection to the Svejk by J. Hasek is that I just finished the great
   book and wanted to play some Czech baroque music. ;-) The three pieces
   are Allemande, Courante and Aria.
   You can find the Sonata in
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be

   And in case someone wishes to play this Sonata - or perhaps just see
   the written music - here are the original handwritten three pieces. (At
   least the Firefox shows it corrupted, but downloading helps.)
   [2]  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/.../11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf


   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

   Hidden links:
   4. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2485751181/permalink/10152456331856182/?comment_id152456500146182offset=0total_comments=1


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Svejk Sonata (ms. Podebrady Jelinik)

[Arto Wikla]

Corrected link to the written music:
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

On 03/06/14 00:24, Arto Wikla wrote:

Hi lutenists,
after having read the great book by J. Hasek, The Good Soldier Svejk,
I had to play some Czech music... ;-)
The Sonata is just 3 pieces on consecutive pages in the Czech
manuscript Podebrady Jelinik (CZ-PnmE36), p. 48-51. The only real
connection to the Svejk by J. Hasek is that I just finished the great
book and wanted to play some Czech baroque music. ;-) The three pieces
are Allemande, Courante and Aria.
You can find the Sonata in
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be

And in case someone wishes to play this Sonata - or perhaps just see
the written music - here are the original handwritten three pieces. (At
least the Firefox shows it corrupted, but downloading helps.)
[2]  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/.../11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf


All the best,
Arto
--

References

Visible links
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

Hidden links:
4. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2485751181/permalink/10152456331856182/?comment_id152456500146182offset=0total_comments=1


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: NIIN KAUAN

[Arto Wikla]

Nice version Roman!

Here is my original version made in in the style of the ms. Balcarres' 
pieces that do not use the in those days modern functional harmonies 
but some kind of post pentatonic style.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8f_S67dEGIfeature=youtu.be
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/NiinKauanMinaTramppaan.JPG

The text is quite macho.

1st verse says something like this (in dialect):
Iwalk the paths of this village as long as the soles of my shoes last.
I make love to anyone I wish, and the hags cannot stop that. 

The second verse says something like this: How good a horse I have, and 
how beautiful cart I have. And I guide it by myself. And when you love a 
person, who is peer to you, you need not be too elegant.


All the best,

Arto

On 11/04/14 17:26, Roman Turovsky wrote:


NEW: The 1st tune of 2014!
An Ostrobothnian (Finland) folk song with 2 doubles (11course):
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/finn/niin.mp3
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/finn/niin.pdf
Thanks to Arto Wikla for the tune!
Enjoy!
Amities,
RT






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Chain of secondary dominants before they were invented...

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lutenists,

I happened to find a nice example of a chain of secondary dominants long 
before they were invented. I've seen them also in other pieces of the 
period, but this one is very clear in one Courante by Valentin Strobel 
in the ms. PL-Kj40620:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2kC3OUTtcfeature=youtu.be

best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The comet is coming!!!

[Arto Wikla]

Nice idea Danny!  :)

Here is my try
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
recorded in 15.2.2013

Arto

On 19/11/13 23:30, DANIEL SHOSKES wrote:

Dear all: as brought to my attention by Cathy Liddell, a new comet is rounding 
the sun and heading for earth's orbit. If it survives the trip, it is believed 
that it might be visible to the naked eye during the day, just like the 1680 
comet which inspired Gallot's chaconne, La Comet.

http://www.jwwerner.com/history/Comet.html

Here's an idea. How about we round up as many baroque lutenists as we can to make an 
audio or video recording of the piece and upload to youtube? We can then have an 
all comet, all the time playlist which we might even be able to pitch to the 
media.

Cathy has made a nice clean Fronimo version which I have uploaded here: 
http://cl.ly/3U3w1u2h0M1V

What do you all think? Please spread the word through any and all lute related 
media and let's have fun with it!! If you do upload, let me know and I’ll keep 
a running tally.

Danny



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Here is(are) the best luthier(s) to make an 11-course lute!

[Arto Wikla]

Thanks to everyone who suggested the best maker of an 11-courser!

All the answers were private, which is very ok.
And here is the list of the suggested makers in alphabetical order:

Karl Kichmeyr
Dan Larson
Renatus Lechner
Ivo Magherini
Stephen Murphy
Renzo Salvador
Michael Schreiner
Clive Titmuss

I really do believe they all are very good!

All the best and thanks,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Best luthier to make 11-coursers?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

who do you regard as the best maker of 11-course lutes? I suppose my 
question is only theoretical, because her/his instruments are probably 
priced above my economical possibilites, though... ;-)


Anyhow, 11-courser is very addictive; much more than I could imagine 
some years ago.


Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] The tabulature of Mr. Leslie of the Balcarres ms.

[Arto Wikla]

In case someone wants to play these pieces, here is my practical 
performance facsimile:


http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LeslieSuite/

Best,

Arto

On 30/08/13 22:17, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,
Master Leslie or Mr. Leslie wrote only 5 pieces to the Scottish
manuscript Balcarres in the normal baroque tuning in d-minor - there
are some more pieces in the D-major tuning and also in some other
tuning...
Anyhow, I just tubed those 5, and then glued them also together to
form a suite
In case someone unexpectedly happens to be interested, here is the link
to this suite:
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
The separate parts with information are:
102: Scotts tune, by mr. Leslie
[2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5...
127: Imperial sweetnesse, by Master Leslie
[3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXA...
129: Lully/Mr. Leslie: Belle hereuse, by Mr. Leslie
[4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7Hf...
130: My own dear honey, be kind to me, ..., by mr. Leslie
[5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0aj...
115: The Lady Errol's delight, the 3d way, mr. Leslie's way
[6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuL...
I actually enjoyed very much of my humble try to understand the
Scottish soul! :-)
All the best,
Arto
--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5A_lpAfeature=youtu.be
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXAdSNaIfeature=youtu.be
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7HfoG_fkfeature=youtu.be
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0ajtSRQIfeature=youtu.be
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuLlKK2wfeature=youtu.be


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Mr. Leslie of the Balcarres ms.

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists,
   Master Leslie or Mr. Leslie wrote only 5 pieces to the Scottish
   manuscript Balcarres in the normal baroque tuning in d-minor - there
   are some more pieces in the D-major tuning and also in some other
   tuning...
   Anyhow, I just tubed those 5, and then glued them also together to
   form a suite
   In case someone unexpectedly happens to be interested, here is the link
   to this suite:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
   The separate parts with information are:
   102: Scotts tune, by mr. Leslie
   [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5...
   127: Imperial sweetnesse, by Master Leslie
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXA...
   129: Lully/Mr. Leslie: Belle hereuse, by Mr. Leslie
   [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7Hf...
   130: My own dear honey, be kind to me, ..., by mr. Leslie
   [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0aj...
   115: The Lady Errol's delight, the 3d way, mr. Leslie's way
   [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuL...
   I actually enjoyed very much of my humble try to understand the
   Scottish soul! :-)
   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5A_lpAfeature=youtu.be
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXAdSNaIfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7HfoG_fkfeature=youtu.be
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0ajtSRQIfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuLlKK2wfeature=youtu.be


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Beautiful melody!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, b- and r-,

I happened to find an exceptionally good melody in the baroque lute 
manuscript RA-BAn, Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, Biblioteca Nacional. 
It is a Sarabande with its (quite interestingly made) Double. The 
composer is not known thus far today, but I strongly suppose, s/he 
is/must be some of the great names around the year 1700!


It of course could be played better, but my try - anyhow - is in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzwpVeqtyX0feature=youtu.be
and
  http://vimeo.com/68787827

Most Best Midsummer!  :-)

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] My 400th ;-)

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear lutenists, b- and r-,
   someone told me that it is something special, when you reach your 400th
   playing to y-tube. Perhaps it is, perhaps not. Anyhow, I started by
   several normal pocket digital cameras with their very lousy sound
   quality, did also some (bad) video editing in those days. Then to Zoom
   O3. Much better sound, but the automatic volume control spoiled
   (nearly) all the tries to piano e forte... You know, what I mean...;-)
   Then to the Zoom O3 HD. With that you first give your loudest sound; it
   takes that as the volume level. If you do it right, it works. But if
   you happen to for ex. to cough, when the recording has started, you'll
   get very quiet lute sound...;-)
   And then with the baroque lute I had mostly unsuccessful - but very
   (too?) persistent - try on the gut strings. There are some quite
   ashamed examples there in the y-tube... But I am not going to hide the
   history. ;)
   In the beginning I recorded many of my own arrangements - which I also
   published in my pages - to show that they are playable.
   There are pieces to 6-courser, 10-courser in different tunings, soprano
   lute, chitarrino - renaissance guitar, theorbo in high d and two in
   normal a, and a couple 11-coursers, ...
   As easily can be seen, I really got addicted to the 11-course d-minor
   lute; to me it is  by far the most clever tuning to the music of its
   time (second is the 6-courser in the 16th century music).
   So, my 400th y-tubing is a German aria Warum Klagstu das du dein
   Leben in the D-LEm ms. II.6.24.
   And thus I am not going to complain my life!  ;-)
   See:
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmHMv62K5Yfeature=youtu.be
 (or [2]http://vimeo.com/68153116, but there it is not the 400th...)
   Btw: I never have done any sound editing to my recordings. No echo, no
   nothing, just the living room acoustics. And since the Zoom Q3's, my
   video editing has just been clipping the before and after
   movements.
   All the best and happy playing,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmHMv62K5Yfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/68153116


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] An interesting German song arr to lute solo

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

today I happened to find an interesting song setting to lute solo, quite 
well made, in the D-LEm ms. II.6.24, Leipzig, Städtische Bibliotheken, 
Musikbibliothek. The piece is also named interestingly: Die weil ich 
nun Kein Weib nicht habe u. auch noch keines haben will.


Does anyone happen to know this song?

My try with a Saraband just following this song is in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrP9uGWLn0feature=youtu.be
and also
  http://vimeo.com/67669112

(btw Vimeo seems to be vanishing...)

Best,

Arto

PS This list seems to be quite passive in these days. Wayne, how many 
subscribers are there nowadays?




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Kalivoda Suite in g-minor

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, baroque and not baroque,

my tiny project of playing a small lute suite of early music as seen 
in the 1720's is now kind of completed. The pieces are quite good - I 
guess better than my playing? - and not too difficult. Below you'll find 
links that perhaps are useful to you; easy access to a nice and easily 
liked suite to perform to those, who already are baroque lutenists, 
and positive propaganda to the hesitating not-yet baroque lutenists...;-)


Here is my explanation (and the links after you have read the story):
-
This suite is early music as seen in the 1720's! The pieces are on 
the consecutive pages in the manuscript RA-BAn, Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos 
Aires, Biblioteca nacional, the so called Kalivoda manuscript, which 
was composed around 1720's; there is a lot of music by the late baroque 
lutenists there: Weiss, Weichenberger, Pichler, ... And the author of 
this ms. collected this suite by early to middle French baroque lute 
pieces! Two of the pieces are by Merville, one piece by Pinel and one by 
Pierre Gaultier. The composer of two pieces are not known for the 
moment. Perhaps the author of RA-BAn himself composed these?

-

The written music can be found in
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/KalivodaSuiteInGm/

And my playing the suite in
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPSpgSB8_64feature=youtu.be

Perhaps beginning baroque lutenists can find some ideas of my fingerings 
etc? Although I really am quite unotrhodox here and there. And what is 
good and what is bad to your hands, is very individual! Anyhow, I 
suppose my examples could be useful - perhaps as good examples and 
perhaps also as bad examples.


Happy playing,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] More early early music in 1720's, N. de Merville

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

The ms. RA-BAn Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, Biblioteca nacional, the 
the so called Kalivoda Ms., contains mainly music of the Weiss' times, 
Weiss included. But strangely enough, it seems to have also some early 
music as seen in 1720's.


My second try in this is a Sarabande by Nicolas de Merville (b c1600; d 
after 1643):

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dBL68uEucofeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/67149299

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pierre Gaultier in 1720! Old early music?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lute friends  (cc to the main list)

I happened to find something interesting: A Courante by Pierre Gaultier 
in a ms. of much later times,


The Courante comes from ms. RA-BAn Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, 
Biblioteca nacional, fol. 109v. The composer, Pierre Gaultier, was 
active nearly a century before this manuscript! He published this piece 
in his printed book already in 1638, and the ms. RA-BAn is assumed have 
been written around 1720. What is also interesting, is that Pierre wrote 
this piece in one of the transitional tunings, accords noveaux. And 
in about 1720 it was transcribed to the normal baroque lute d-minor 
tuning! So this piece is in a way early music as seen in 1720. But was 
it HIP, while the tuning was changed? ;-)


You can find my try on this piece in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsygnpU_2h8feature=youtu.be

At least the composition is good...  :-)

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lully, Rondeau and its form (shape)?

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists (and cc to the main Lute list, because the
   baroque list is so silent nowadays...)
   As we all know, very many pieces by Lully were transcribed to lutes and
   theorbo all around the lute playing Europe in those days. I happened
   to meet - once again - one in the Austrian ms. A-Wn ms. 17706, a
   transcription of a Rondeau in Lully's Persee (Perseus), Acte IV,
   Scene VI (LWV 60/73).
   You can see the Viennese tabulature here:

   [1]http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee
   Tab.jpg
   And the Lully original is here:

   [2]http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee
   .jpg
   And my modest try to play the piece is here
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLDPykxpIEfeature=youtu.be
   and also here
  [4]http://vimeo.com/66412320
   I kind of corrected(?) a couple of tiny things in the beginning of the
   C section. Thrusting Lully more than the lute ms. Did I make a sin? ;-)
   But my main question concerns the form of the piece: there are 3
   sections in that piece:
 A (8 bars), B (10 bars) and C (8 bars).
   The ms. just gives the form ABC. The original  Persee version seems to
   have the form ABACA.  And I just happened to like to play it as
   AABACCAA. Why? Well that just sounded right? Did I brake some rules? Am
   I a sinner in doing so? ;-)
   Best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. 
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPerseeTab.jpg
   2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee.jpg
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLDPykxpIEfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/66412320


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rhetorique on-line?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Andreas,

that sounds highly interesting!  I am already eagerly waiting for your 
350 pages' Gaultier bible!


Arto

On 20/03/13 11:12, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

Dear Arto,

Be careful with the Rhétorique! It's not a source with any specially authorised 
versions of Gaultier's works! The connection between Denis Gaultier and the 
written tablature is absolutely not clear - if there exist any connection at 
all (beside of the fact that there is music by Denis and Ennemond Gaultier in 
the Rhétorique)!
François-Pierre Goy and me will publish this summer our very large work on this source and all the 
33 pieces, written by Notator B in 6 sources. It's a very, very tricky story - and 
that's the reason for our around 350 pages (who will also include Goy's phantastic 
Gaultier-Werkverzeichnis and facsimiles of 2 complete sources and parallel editions of 
all 33 pieces written by Notator B)!

All the best,

Andreas

Am 19.03.2013 um 21:30 schrieb Arto Wikla:


Dear baroque lutenists,

does anyone know, whether there is an on-line version of the facsimile of the 
Rhetorique des Dieux by Denis Gaultier? The pictures of the ms. are in the Net, 
but what about the tabulature, the actual music? Modern edition there is, and 
also many versions of most of those pieces appear in many other mss., but it 
anyhow would be interesting to see also the famous Rhetorique as it really is...

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Another piece about the unhappy Queen of Sweden

[Arto Wikla]

In the Rhetorique des Dieux:  Artemise ou l'Oraison funebre,
in the ms.ETGoessII C(ourante) G(aultier) sur L'entree de La Reine de 
Suede dans Paris:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7ui491_7Ifeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/61828222

best,

Arto

On 12/03/13 22:49, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists

In case someone is interested, I just tubed a direct and unedited 
home recording of an extremist French baroque lute description of a 
couple of very strong ladies of their times:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB0P_IXqm5kfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/61645403

best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Swedish von Düben

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

when I started to study the baroque lute 3 years and some months ago, 
one of my first tries was one at least historically interesting piece - 
and at least to us Finns, Swedes and probably also Russians:


This anonymous lute arrangement of of a marche by Anders von Düben comes 
from ms. Kalmar KLM 21.068. fol. 10v.The original name by von Düben is 
Marche pour les Suedois - Narvamarschen and it is part of the 
Comedie-balett: Narvabaletten, first performed 6 february 1701. The 
piece was composed to celebrate the victory of the Swedish king Charles 
XII (Karl XII) of his opponent Peter the Great of Russia in Narva, 
January 1700.


My hopefully a little bit more polished version, recorded today, is in

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvH3x38-4g

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Comets, asteroids and meteors today...

[Arto Wikla]

   Hi b-lutenists,
   I just made my 2nd pathetic try on La Comete, Chaconne du V.Gallot
   into the tubes:
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
 [2]http://vimeo.com/59757771
   Very far from perfect performance, but today it was the most perfect
   day to play an astronomic baroque piece: asteroid and meteors! 3rd
   version when I practise more... ;-)
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/59757771


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] ... a tiny Rondo by a tiny Count ...

[Arto Wikla]

.. just in (the rare) case someone is interested:

Rondaut Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.33v-34r)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZsNLTeD7iofeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/57699391

Arto

On 16/01/13 21:51, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find a Courante by Losy that starts very French way, but 
in the B section goes to some kind of Sturm und Drang. Perhaps Losy 
is an interesting case, anyhow... ;-)


Courante Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.31v-32r):
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BmzF8WQpYfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57548408

best,

Arto




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sturm und Drang before Sturm und Drang...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find a Courante by Losy that starts very French way, but 
in the B section goes to some kind of Sturm und Drang. Perhaps Losy is 
an interesting case, anyhow... ;-)


Courante Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.31v-32r):
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BmzF8WQpYfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57548408

best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: La prima sera in NYp-MYO: composer and structure?

[Arto Wikla]

Thank you Arthur!

So there anyway is something to note in this piece... At least to the 
writer of this interesting ms.


best wishes,

Arto

On 14/01/13 20:38, Arthur Ness wrote:

It looks like a ligated (joined) NB, the abbreviation for Nota Bene.
The last down stroke on N and the downstroke on B are the same.
That's what the facsimile looks like, as far as I can tell.

I've seen NB in the K'berg manuscript to draw attention to pieces for
ensemble of
two - four lutes.  (I'm not suggesting it indicated a duet here. Cannot
find my notes on the NY manuscripts.)
inding ms.
ajn
- Original Message - From: Arto Wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:29 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: La prima sera in NYp-MYO: composer and
structure?



In case someone wants to investigate the original title, you can see it
here:
   http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/NB.JPG

Any clarifications?

Arto

On 11/01/13 21:05, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque musicians,

I just tubed the curious La prima sera by NB (or AB?) in the 
ms.

US-NYpMYO. Who (or what) could this NB be? I could not find info of
that in the nice edition of the ms. by Michael Treder (Tree 2012). 
Maybe

I did not read his analysis enough - my reading German is very slow...
Anyone remembers some active composer N.B. or A.B. in Vienna around 
1700?
Not necessarily lutenist, for NB could also be the composer of the 
song?

And what about the song? Anyone happens to know,where it comes from?

My plays are in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_hEcbr6xr0feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/57226475

Another interesting(?) question about the form of the piece (aria?):

The piece has a short A part, four measures.
The B part has three sections, b1 (4 bars), b2 (2 bars), b3 (2 bars).
There are some repeat marks (well, who knows, what they actually
are...;)

The written form is:
  A :|: b1 |: b2 |: b3 :|

I played it like this:
  A A b1 b2 b2 b3 b3 b1 b2 b2 b3 b3 A A

So I took the b2 as an inside the B repeat, and the b3 as the petite
reprise.

Perhaps the B part should be
   b1 b2 b3 b2 b3 b3?
So, first a longer petite reprise and then a shorter petite 
reprise?


Repeating the A at the end just felt right. There is strong sense of a
da capo aria in this piece, at least to my understanding. No clues of
that in the ms., though...

For some reason or another, Michael T. has left out the repeat 
marks(?)

of the B part in his edition.

all the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Entertainment or art?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque musicians,

in case my direct, unedited, not echo-boosted home recordings insult 
you, please delete this mail immediately!  ;-)


If you did not:
I just tubed an Endre (Entree) and an Aria in A-major from 
US-NYpMYO. They are kind of simply pieces, the Endre perhaps even sounds 
etyde-like. On the other hand they are in some way quite different 
compared to the normal 1700 Austrian lute music. And at end not so 
easy, anyway...


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ffDaQ4lCjAfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57394299

So is this pop or art? Or perhaps there is/was no clear separation 
between the genres? I actually tend to think so...


best wishes,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] A dramatic Aria in US-NYpMYO. Anyone recognises?

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lutenists,

An Aria with a mini Prelude:

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WWgw-wJ2ofeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56928250

Anyone recognises this Aria? it is probably an Italian opera aria that 
was known in Vienna sometime around 1700.


Arto

On 29/12/12 22:25, Arto Wikla wrote:


And then even more enigmatic piece, perhaps an Aria, but the ms. 
doesn't say anything:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbqkySdnEYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56475029

All the best,

Arto

On 27/12/12 22:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. 
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. 
If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me 
know!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A dramatic Aria in US-NYpMYO. Anyone recognises?

[Arto Wikla]

Markus,

you are really fast in finding concordances!!  :-)
The D-B40627 seems to an interesting ms., too. And I do not yet have 
that... ;) ;)   (blink, blink!)


best,

Arto

On 07/01/13 21:40, Markus Lutz wrote:

Hi Arto,
I don't know it either, but I found another concordance of it:

= Aria ex B
g-moll-   D-B40627 / 63v

Best regards
Markus


Am 07.01.2013 20:30, schrieb Arto Wikla:

Hi lutenists,

An Aria with a mini Prelude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WWgw-wJ2ofeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/56928250

Anyone recognises this Aria? it is probably an Italian opera aria that
was known in Vienna sometime around 1700.

Arto

On 29/12/12 22:25, Arto Wikla wrote:


And then even more enigmatic piece, perhaps an Aria, but the ms.
doesn't say anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbqkySdnEYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56475029

All the best,

Arto

On 27/12/12 22:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms.
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though.
If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me
know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: An anonymous Aria sounds so familiar...

[wikla]

This is true! Thanks Markus.

And it explains also why it was so familiar to me!
I've actually played the Wittge version in 2010:

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDElIjSJTdg
   http://vimeo.com/15806184

Arto

On 28/12/12 02:46, Markus Lutz wrote:

Hi Arto,
this seems to be a concordance of an Air by Losy:
Air du Comte Logy (Losy?)
d-moll-   D-Witt / 5v

1. D-Witt / 5r (should mean 5v)  |  2. F-Sim / 2r
See 1. PL-Wn396 / 94v   |  2. PL-Wu2008 / 62 (1)   |  3. PL-Wu2009 / 
78 (2)


Best regards
Markus



Am 27.12.2012 21:23, schrieb Arto Wikla:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms.
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. If
somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] An anonymous Aria sounds so familiar...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. 
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. If 
somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me know!


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Austrian(?) baroque in a New Yorkian ms.

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

a tiny Preludium and an Allamande in the US-NYpMYO:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=293ITxEklvQfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56162661

Not very difficult pieces at all!

But I really do like the often very economic style of the early and 
middle baroque - especially compared to the never ending repeating of 
all the phrases again and again, which so often happens in the late 
baroque music... ;-)


Most enjoyable holiday time to all of you - with any name you happen to 
want to give to this period!


Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Still more de Visee...

[Arto Wikla]

   Robert was not too bad a composer...
   This time I tried his quite difficult Tombeau de Du But, Allemande de
   Mr de Visee
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD53XcEFA_Ufeature=youtu.be
 [2]http://vimeo.com/55634133
   It could be played better, but for the moment I couldn't... ;-)
   Best,
   Arto
   On 07/12/12 21:57, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Just in case someone is interested, I played today a Sarabande in F
 major by de Visee. Could be played cleaner, but the piece is quite
 intersting:
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHCOlVzffxkfeature=youtu.be
   [4]http://vimeo.com/55120326
 Arto
 PS Below my earlier d-minor lute de Visees:
 On 28/11/12 21:45, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Hi again dear pluckers,
 La Mutine, Allemande de Mr de Visee is a strange piece - some
 more or
 less odd harmonies and other unexpected things happening here
 and
 there. Just in case interested, my try is in

 [1][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq8e9dq-Y3sfeature=youtu.be
 and also in
[2][6]http://vimeo.com/54467209
 I tried to find out the meaning of mutine. There were many.
 And I did
 not find out, what of those meanings de Visee might have been
 thinking...
 Best,
 Arto
 I wrote earlier:
   Well, in case someone is interested, I tried to play an
 Allemande in
   D major by de Visee - thematically there perhaps are some
   connections to the Corelli Courante?

 [3][7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWFYGKF59aMfeature=youtu.be
 [4][8]http://vimeo.com/53743753
   I suppose this Allemande is a unique version, and only to the
   d-minor tuned lute?
   best,
   Arto
   On 16/11/12 22:02, Arto Wikla wrote:
   Dear lutenists of every type and baroque guitarists,
   I find it quite interesting that monsieur de Visee made
 some
   arrangements of some of the most famous composers of his
 time. I
   tried
   to play one Corelli arr by him:

 [1][5][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
 [2][6][10]http://vimeo.com/53697535
   Does anyone here happen to know, for what medium the
 model, the
   Corelli, Opera 2a Sonata 10a happens to be?
   Best,
   Arto
   PS Below are the links to my tiny recent efforts of trying
 to
   understand de Visee style of writing to the d-minor lute.
   On 09/11/12 21:25, I wrote:
 I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to
   theorbo
 arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer
 himself? Or
   not
 by him? Who knows...

 [3][7][11]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.b
 e
[4][8][12]http://vimeo.com/53172045
 Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just
   remembering
 my Scottish set ;-)
Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor

 [5][9][13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.b
 e
 [6][10][14]http://vimeo.com/52755172
 Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor

 [7][11][15]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.
 be
 [8][12][16]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor

 [9][13][17]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.
 be
 [10][14][18]http://vimeo.com/52176020
 Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor

 [11][15][19]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu
 .be
 [12][16][20]http://vimeo.com/52292492
   --
   References
   1.

 [17][21]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
   2. [18][22]http://vimeo.com/53697535
   3.

 [19][23]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
   4. [20][24]http://vimeo.com/53172045
   5.

 [21][25]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
   6. [22][26]http://vimeo.com/52755172
   7.

 [23][27]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   8. [24][28]http://vimeo.com/51821674
   9.

 [25][29]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  10. [26][30]http://vimeo.com/52176020
  11.

 [27][31]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
  12. [28][32]http://vimeo.com/52292492
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [29][33]http

[BAROQUE-LUTE] An Allemande by de Visee has something in common with the Corelli Courante?

[Arto Wikla]

Well, in case someone is interested, I tried to play an Allemande in D 
major by de Visee - thematically there perhaps are some connections to 
the Corelli Courante?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWFYGKF59aMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/53743753

I suppose this Allemande is a unique version, and only to the d-minor 
tuned lute?


best,

Arto

On 16/11/12 22:02, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of every type and baroque guitarists,
I find it quite interesting that monsieur de Visee made some
arrangements of some of the most famous composers of his time. I tried
to play one Corelli arr by him:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/53697535
Does anyone here happen to know, for what medium the model, the
Corelli, Opera 2a Sonata 10a happens to be?
Best,
Arto
PS Below are the links to my tiny recent efforts of trying to
understand de Visee style of writing to the d-minor lute.
On 09/11/12 21:25, I wrote:

  I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to theorbo
  arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer himself? Or not
  by him? Who knows...
 [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
 [4]http://vimeo.com/53172045

  Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just remembering
  my Scottish set ;-)
 Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor
  [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
  [6]http://vimeo.com/52755172

  Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [8]http://vimeo.com/51821674
  Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor
  [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [10]http://vimeo.com/52176020
  Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
  [11]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
  [12]http://vimeo.com/52292492

--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
2. http://vimeo.com/53697535
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
4. http://vimeo.com/53172045
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
6. http://vimeo.com/52755172
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
8. http://vimeo.com/51821674
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   10. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   12. http://vimeo.com/52292492


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Preludes by Vieux Gaultier ???

[Arto Wikla]

Sorry, it is in A MAJOR

On 15/11/12 20:04, Arto Wikla wrote:


Dear Jean-Marie,

in GB-Ob ms. G.617 there seems to be one Prelude de Gautier de P, p. 
120-121, in A minor. Peter S's pages say it is V. Gaultier. Isn't the 
P for Paris?


All the best,

Arto


On 15/11/12 12:44, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:

Thank you Andreas, Bernd and Peter for your answers.
I will be looking forward to F.-P. Goy's book on Gaultier's works...
So far it seems to confirm my impression that there is no extant 
prelude by Vieux Gaultier, which seems incredible but... Probably 
some of his preludes are hidden among anonymous pieces as in Oxford 
G 618 where an unattributed Prelude appears in the midst of a series 
of pieces by Vieux Gaultier...


I will have to choose among those unattributed Preludes to serve as 
an introductory piece for suites by old Ennemond ;-) !


Thanks to all and if you discover something about that mystery please 
don't hesitate to share !


All the best,

Jean-Marie
=
   == En réponse au message du 14-11-2012, 18:19:54 ==


Dear infallible Collective Wisdom ;-),

Would anyone be aware of Prelude(s) by Vieux Gaultier (Ennemond). My 
CNRS old edition doesn't have any... If you know of the existence of 
such pieces, could you cite the sources where they may be found, 
please?


Thank you in advance for your unremitting generous help,

All the best,

Jean-Marie Poirier



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] The famous de Visee Chaconne as lute version

[Arto Wikla]

Hi again dear pluckers,

I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to theorbo 
arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer himself? Or not by 
him? Who knows...


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/53172045

I know the theorbo version - great piece. But is there a version to 
baroque guitar, too? It would be nice to hear also that!


Best,

Arto



Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just remembering 
my Scottish set ;-)


   Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52755172

Below the earlier...

Arto


Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51821674

Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52176020

Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52292492

Best,

Arto




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] From Scotland back to France ...

[Arto Wikla]

   ... and then F# minor again:
Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   [2]http://vimeo.com/52292492
   best,
   Arto
   On 25/10/12 23:03, Arto Wikla wrote:

   ... and then my 2nd try of La Montfermeil, Rondeau by de Visee:
  [1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [2][4]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   best,
   Arto
   On 20/10/12 22:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Dear baroque lutenists,
 after having played some Scottish lute music I came back to France
 to the court of Louis XIV in F# minor:
   Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [3][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [4][6]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Best,
 Arto
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   2. [9]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   3. [10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   4. [11]http://vimeo.com/51821674
   5. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/52292492
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://vimeo.com/51821674
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   9. http://vimeo.com/52176020
  10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  11. http://vimeo.com/51821674
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Vienna lute music 1672

[Arto Wikla]

Beautiful!

Thank you Bernhard!

Arto

PS What is Peter Steur's code for this ms.?
PS2 Can the pdf be found somewhere?


On 24/10/12 11:49, Bernhard Fischer wrote:

Dear lute friends,


The Austrian National Library owns a baroque lute manuscript
hand-written by the composer Johann Gotthard Peyer. From 1672 to 1678
Johann Gotthard Peyer was chaplain of the Imperial Court's orchestra in
Vienna/Austria. According to records his annual salary was 200 Gulden.


His baroque lute tabulature is attributed to Leopold I (1640 - 1705),
Holy Roman Emperor, King of Hungary and King of Bohemia as we can read
from the title page in Latin language Lesus testudine tenoris gallici
teutonico laboretextus. Quem: Augustissimo ac Inuictissimo Romanorum
Imperatori Leopoldo :I: Hungariae Boehmiaeque Regi, Archidci Austrae
ec.ec. Apillini ac Domino suo Clementissimo. In submississimae
Deuotiotionis argumentum. Concinnauit ac humillime dedicauit Infumus
Vasalus. Joannes Gotthardus Peyer: SS: Thlgae sac: Canonumque
candidatus Presbyter.


From this inscription it is clear that Peyer presented his music in
person to Leopold I.


As good as possible in my study room I recorded first time the
Allemande, the Sarabande and the Caprize in d-minor from the
manuscript.


Combined video: [1]http://youtu.be/UvPcoPCuObg

Single video Allemande: [2]http://youtu.be/5jc-2l_-tFs

Single video Sarabande: [3]http://youtu.be/WaRSIq14pso

Single video Caprize: [4]http://youtu.be/CtnrCEmJ5Tg


I appreciate your comments, critics and suggestions.


Bernhard

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -

Dilettante de la musique pour le luth

Tel.:  +43-664-1432919

Fax.: +43-1-25330337795

Mail: [5]fischer...@aon.at


--

References

1. http://youtu.be/UvPcoPCuObg
2. http://youtu.be/5jc-2l_-tFs
3. http://youtu.be/WaRSIq14pso
4. http://youtu.be/CtnrCEmJ5Tg
5. mailto:fischer...@aon.at


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] From Scotland back to France ...

[Arto Wikla]

   ... and then my 2nd try of La Montfermeil, Rondeau by de Visee:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   best,
   Arto
   On 20/10/12 22:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Dear baroque lutenists,
 after having played some Scottish lute music I came back to France
 to the court of Louis XIV in F# minor:
   Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [4]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Best,
 Arto
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/51821674
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Devo's gige, by mr. Beck

[Arto Wikla]

.. I could not resist --- as I told, addictive it is ... ;-)

Devo's gige, by mr. Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ohrvaneF4feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/51355922

All the best,

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, but 
couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but could 
not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated random 
stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take another look 
to the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was hooked... I 
suppose and accept that my playing probably is not acceptable at all 
by the really hard core Scottish musicians, but anyhow to me this has 
been very interesting and happy journey to the Scottish mentality - 
which by the way doesn't seem to be so very far off from the Finnish 
type of melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Who or what was is this Devo?

[Arto Wikla]

Who or what could that Devo in the Balcarres ms. be?  Matthew Spring 
doesn't give any explanation in his great analysis of the ms. Could it 
be the Devil himself? Or perhaps some Scottish family or person? Or 
perhaps just only some reference to nature or to some everyday item?


Arto

On 13/10/12 22:30, Arto Wikla wrote:


.. I could not resist --- as I told, addictive it is ... ;-)

Devo's gige, by mr. Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ohrvaneF4feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/51355922

All the best,

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, 
but couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but 
could not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated 
random stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take 
another look to the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was 
hooked... I suppose and accept that my playing probably is not 
acceptable at all by the really hard core Scottish musicians, but 
anyhow to me this has been very interesting and happy journey to the 
Scottish mentality - which by the way doesn't seem to be so very far 
off from the Finnish type of melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Well, the Balcarres ms. really is addictive!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, but 
couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but could 
not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated random 
stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take another look to 
the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was hooked... I suppose and 
accept that my playing probably is not acceptable at all by the really 
hard core Scottish musicians, but anyhow to me this has been very 
interesting and happy journey to the Scottish mentality - which by the 
way doesn't seem to be so very far off from the Finnish type of 
melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute setting of the sad and even political Gilderoy ballad

[Arto Wikla]

Dear all,

delete immediately, if you are not interested in my tubings... ;)

So you who did not delete:

This evening I tried to play one solo lute version of the famous 
Gilderoy ballad. The text actually seems to be quite politic - 
commenting the very strict English law of the safe of the property, 
instead of the safe of the human life, which was brought to Scotland by 
the southern power. The song is anyhow, a love song. I added also the 
text of verses 1, 7 and 8 to my tubing. You can find all of the text in

http://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/broadside.cfm/id/15859

My modest version is in

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2hXggEt88feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50845390

All the best,

Arto


On 03/10/12 22:15, Arto Wikla wrote:

On 01/10/12 21:55, Arto Wikla wrote:
Hi all,

After the Paunges of a desperate lover, Mr. McLaughland's way, by mr. 
Beck (ms. Balcarres 187)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PO3whJQX6gfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/50701736

Does this paunges mean pangs? So some kind of pains or sorrows?

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I happened to meet one melody in the Balcarres' ms., which I know I 
know from the times of my early student years - it was actually a 
recorded example in the appendix record of one VERY early book about 
computer music (!). The piece was called with a name that was somehow 
connected to a Scottish military march; I cannot remember the actual 
name... Anyhow that same melody is in the Balcarres ms., number 186: 
The canaries, the new way, in Mr. McLaughlan's fashion, by mr. 
Beck. The beginning of the piece is actually march-like, while only 
the end is in 3!


What makes me wonder, is that Matthew Spring in his wonderful edition 
doesn't give any hint of this piece being a song or some kind of 
Scottish march.


My todays y-tubing and vimeoing of this 186 is in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBm6T7Uq5ccfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50544077

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Paunges(?) of a desperate lover... what is this paunges?

[Arto Wikla]

On 01/10/12 21:55, Arto Wikla wrote:
Hi all,

After the Paunges of a desperate lover, Mr. McLaughland's way, by mr. 
Beck (ms. Balcarres 187)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PO3whJQX6gfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/50701736

Does this paunges mean pangs? So some kind of pains or sorrows?

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I happened to meet one melody in the Balcarres' ms., which I know I 
know from the times of my early student years - it was actually a 
recorded example in the appendix record of one VERY early book about 
computer music (!). The piece was called with a name that was somehow 
connected to a Scottish military march; I cannot remember the actual 
name... Anyhow that same melody is in the Balcarres ms., number 186: 
The canaries, the new way, in Mr. McLaughlan's fashion, by mr. Beck. 
The beginning of the piece is actually march-like, while only the end 
is in 3!


What makes me wonder, is that Matthew Spring in his wonderful edition 
doesn't give any hint of this piece being a song or some kind of 
Scottish march.


My todays y-tubing and vimeoing of this 186 is in:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBm6T7Uq5ccfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50544077

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] There is something unique in the way the Scots adopted the lute

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

as my subject says, there really is something unique in the way the 
Scots adopted the lute. Already in the times of the vieil accord, the 
renaissance tuning, the Scots used the lute in playing their own songs 
and melodies - in modern terms playing the folk music. And that 
practise continued to the baroque times, perhaps even later. As far as I 
know, no other nation or ethnic group ever so strongly used the lute in 
playing their own traditional music. Well, this is just my experience, 
no real research here...


Anyhow, I hope you do not condemn my tiny efforts of trying to 
understand that special phenomenon, and especially my postings of the 
links to my (foreign to Scots) efforts to play examples of that music.


Now I started to try to get an idea of the pieces in ms. Balcarres that 
are in Jean More's way, by Mr. Beck.


The first one is
  Over the moore, to Katie, Jean More's way, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 
195)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaE5AF4uv4feature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/50387193

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pantaloon(=Bergamasca) ends my tiny D. Grieve project

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I end my tiny project of trying to understand David Grieve (of the ms. 
Balcarres) by Grieve's version of the most famous Bergamasca jam session 
chord progression of the renaissance and baroque. The man clearly seems 
to have his own style among the musicians/composers of the Balcarres ms.!


Not much seems to be known of David Grieve; in his wonderful edition of 
the ms., even Matthew Spring does not tell much about our David (see The 
Music of Scotland, Volume 2, The Universities of Glasgow and Aberdeen, 
2010).


Does anyone here happen to know anything more of this enigmatic 
musician, composer and lutenist? And some of the Grieve-pieces in the 
ms. are marked by David Grieve, some are David Grieve's way. Could 
the latter perhaps be settings written by the dominating writer of the 
ms., the also quite enigmatic Mr. Beck?


Links to my tiny efforts - 7 pieces - are below - one piece actually is 
anonymous, but the piece before Amarillis is by Grieve, on the other 
hand, the next one is by Master Lesslie...


Then something else, ..., perhaps Balcarres settings of the mysic by 
Mr. McLaughland? :-)


All the best

Arto

Pantaloon, by David Grieve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ldLVTkP-Yfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/50153754

  Amarillis (by an anonymous composer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyKh1GV5SIfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/50013553

  Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49974431

  The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

  Saraband, by David Grieve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49465762

  From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Just a plain Amarillis

[Arto Wikla]

Sorry for flooding, ..., but it just is so inspiring to try to 
understand a style that is new to you... This time I tried an Amarillis 
by an anonymous composer:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyKh1GV5SIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50013553

Arto

On 22/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:


Dear lutenists, ..., you know where is the delete button ... :-)

Today still more Scottish lute:

Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49974431

This is a simple song setting by D. Grieve. It is interesting, how the 
modal harmonies and melodies still creep in here and there to the 
otherwise quite continental texture.


Perhaps still some Grieve, and then maybe I dare to go to the very 
heavy stuff marked Mr. McLachland's way by Mr. Beck in Balcarres ms.?


All the best,

Arto

On 21/09/12 20:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, in case there is some interest ... ;-)

Also David Grieve wrote his Tastar de corde:

The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

Best,

Arro


On 19/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a 
Saraband:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque 
lute - very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music 
and some elements French baroque lute music. One interesting 
difficulty has been to make my fingers believe that they really 
have to play the pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to 
the normal major and minor scales that they just want to go 
that way, without obeying my orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie 
lady, master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core 
Celtic piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, ..., you know where is the delete button ... :-)

Today still more Scottish lute:

Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49974431

This is a simple song setting by D. Grieve. It is interesting, how the 
modal harmonies and melodies still creep in here and there to the 
otherwise quite continental texture.


Perhaps still some Grieve, and then maybe I dare to go to the very heavy 
stuff marked Mr. McLachland's way by Mr. Beck in Balcarres ms.?


All the best,

Arto

On 21/09/12 20:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, in case there is some interest ... ;-)

Also David Grieve wrote his Tastar de corde:

The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

Best,

Arro


On 19/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a 
Saraband:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque 
lute - very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and 
some elements French baroque lute music. One interesting 
difficulty has been to make my fingers believe that they really 
have to play the pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the 
normal major and minor scales that they just want to go that 
way, without obeying my orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic 
piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] David Grieve of Balcarres knew ALSO the Scottish style ... ;)

[Arto Wikla]

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a Saraband:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque lute 
- very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and some 
elements French baroque lute music. One interesting difficulty has 
been to make my fingers believe that they really have to play the 
pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the normal major and 
minor scales that they just want to go that way, without obeying my 
orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic 
piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Fingers, pentatonic, Balcarres and Mr. Beck ...

[Arto Wikla]

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)

From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque lute - 
very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and some 
elements French baroque lute music. One interesting difficulty has 
been to make my fingers believe that they really have to play the 
pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the normal major and 
minor scales that they just want to go that way, without obeying my 
orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic piece. 
Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] More Celtic baroque from Scotland

[Arto Wikla]

   Another Scottish piece, Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/48655228
   This period/place is very interesting: little by little the tonality is
   creeping in to the modal, and even pentatonic music. Fruitful mixture!
   Best,

   Arto
   On 31/08/12 22:05, Arto Wikla wrote:

   Hi all
   I tried to play a piece of the ms. Balcarres, the Joy to the Person of
   my love, mr. Beck's way:
 [1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
 [2][4]http://vimeo.com/48612640
   This style and genre is in a way not too difficult, but in another way very d
ifficult!!
   All the best,
   Arto
   --


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/48655228
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/48612640


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: First touch to Dubut, The Wagtail

[Arto Wikla]

.. another Dubut, a Sarabande:;-)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2oxieqoM6Ifeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/45257093

Seems to be interesting composer!

Arto

On 04/07/12 20:26, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear b-lutenists,

my first try to Pierre Dubut's (fils?) music is Gavotte(?) La 
Bergenorette, The Wagtail:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km--kfnyXzYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/45197590

Pierre seems to be an interesting and melodic composer. Little by 
little I start to understand, how different composers and styles there 
are even in the very hard core of the French baroque lute music!


Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Logy Courante and Double

[Arto Wikla]

Is the ms. Denby the same as the ms. Danby?  See Crawford's page
   http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01tc/web/ttc/Danby.html

Arto

On 03/06/12 23:02, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

The D-B Ms SA4060 Ms is turning out to be a very entertaining source of music. 
I found a courante by Logy that has a concordance in the Denby Ms. I have made 
my own amalgamation of the 2 versions and added the double that follows in 
Denby. Happy to share the pdf if anyone is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMCtWk3xF7M

Danny




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] B-flat major is actually quite a cute key ...

[Arto Wikla]

.. a couple of tiny little Kremsmunsterian pieces (Gavotte and Menuet, 
perhaps?):


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBYVNfQzfUfeature=youtu.be

Happy key,

Arto


On 31/05/12 23:19, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear b-lutenists,

remember, delete is easy, if this kind of mails hurt... ;-)

I just played still another Kremsmunster pop song. In a way it is 
kind of much more fun and enjoyable to play easy pieces that sound 
nice than those very difficult pieces that perhaps mainly show your 
braveness...? ;-))


So, this is perhaps an Allemande: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRpdYIiB_pAfeature=youtu.be


Best,

Arto


On 30/05/12 20:28, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol 
in a baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] 11th course in Bb is fun!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear b-lutenists,

remember, delete is easy, if this kind of mails hurt... ;-)

I just played still another Kremsmunster pop song. In a way it is kind 
of much more fun and enjoyable to play easy pieces that sound nice 
than those very difficult pieces that perhaps mainly show your 
braveness...? ;-))


So, this is perhaps an Allemande: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRpdYIiB_pAfeature=youtu.be


Best,

Arto


On 30/05/12 20:28, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol in 
a baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] We Wish You A Merry Christmas

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol in a 
baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Austrian baroque pop...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I perhaps should not shamelessly self promote(?), but this kind of 
mails are anyhow so easily deleted... ;-)


So, I am still advertising the lute music after Dowland and before 
Weiss. There is lots of that!!
Now I have a tiny project of getting to know the Austrian (=Imperial) 
baroque pop music to the lute.


Yesterday's example:
Aria(?):
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn7Pe_mwGXo
  http://vimeo.com/42639825

And a couple of more that I already have mentioned here:
Aria(?) a'la Schubert long before Schubert
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnUpH9-yigfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/42502142
Aria(?) in g-minor
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/42462352

Perhaps a couple more to come in near future... ;)

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Bill and the List,

I recommend Mimmo's Aquila's D's to the basses, for which there still 
are no NNG's/NGE's. Wound on NNG, I guess. But much, very much better 
than the old Pyramid type wound strings. And if I  have understood it 
right, Mimmo is developing a better solution: loaded NNG's/NGE's!


Best,

Arto

On 23/05/12 17:31, William Samson wrote:

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the worst of the
boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses?  Loaded gut is
'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say, Kuerschner or
Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.

I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and unsightly.
Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.

Thanks!

Bill

--


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

   And Bill, I actually just replaced the old, very old - 1980's! -
   Pyramid basses of my 10-courser to Aquila's D's. Great improvement!
   Some examples of those D's (and also mainly NNG's):
   Entree de Luth - Branle de Village 1 - Branle de Village 3.
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?vovgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
   Home againe, Market is done
 [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
   Zamboni: Preludio - Sarabanda Largo - Gavotta Allegro
 [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
   Corrente (ms. Doni)
 [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
   Corrente francese (ms. Doni)
 [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
   Piccinini: Toccata V
 [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
   Michelangelo Galilei: Toccata
 [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
   Kapsberger: Toccata 3
   [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
   Best,
   Arto
   On 23/05/12 18:38, William Samson wrote:

   Good question, David.

   They're very old Pyramids and although silvery in colour, it looks like
   silver plating on top of copper.  I'd have thought that sweat and dirt
   might have calmed them down after all these years, but  . . .  :(

   Bill
   From: [9]starb...@optonline.net [10]starb...@optonline.net
   To: William Samson [11]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 16:23
   Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
   Bill,
   Are you using silver or copper wound? I found that the copper wound are
   less zingy than the silver wound (at least on my lute).
   -David
   - Original Message -
   From: William Samson
   Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:32 am
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
   To: baroque-lute mailing-list
Hi,
   
Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the
worst of the
boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses? Loaded
gut is
'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say,
Kuerschner or
Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.
   
I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and
unsightly. Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.
   
Thanks!
   
Bill
   
--
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   

   --


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%C3%B4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
   8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
   9. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
  10. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
  11. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

Something wrong with the first link!? This should work:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be

Arto

On 23/05/12 23:40, Arto Wikla wrote:

And Bill, I actually just replaced the old, very old - 1980's! -
Pyramid basses of my 10-courser to Aquila's D's. Great improvement!
Some examples of those D's (and also mainly NNG's):
Entree de Luth - Branle de Village 1 - Branle de Village 3.
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?vovgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
Home againe, Market is done
  [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
Zamboni: Preludio - Sarabanda Largo - Gavotta Allegro
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
Corrente (ms. Doni)
  [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
Corrente francese (ms. Doni)
  [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
Piccinini: Toccata V
  [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
Michelangelo Galilei: Toccata
  [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
Kapsberger: Toccata 3
[8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
Best,
Arto
On 23/05/12 18:38, William Samson wrote:

Good question, David.

They're very old Pyramids and although silvery in colour, it looks like
silver plating on top of copper.  I'd have thought that sweat and dirt
might have calmed them down after all these years, but  . . .  :(

Bill
From: [9]starb...@optonline.net [10]starb...@optonline.net
To: William Samson [11]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 16:23
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
Bill,
Are you using silver or copper wound? I found that the copper wound are
less zingy than the silver wound (at least on my lute).
-David
- Original Message -
From: William Samson
Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:32 am
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
To: baroque-lute mailing-list
  Hi,

  Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the
  worst of the
  boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses? Loaded
  gut is
  'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say,
  Kuerschner or
  Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.

  I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
  where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and
  unsightly. Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.

  Thanks!

  Bill

  --


  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--


--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%C3%B4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
9. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
   10. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
   11. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] What is this nice little piece?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a simple but also quite beautiful little piece to 
baroque lute. It is in one of the Kremsmunster mss., A-KR L83b, fol. 
25r, piece number 248.There is no name of the piece, neither of the 
composer, but somehow this piece sounds so familiar!


The piece is so song-like that I think it must be an instrumental 
arrangement of a song, perhaps taken from some popular opera around 1700 
in Vienna?


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be

So, if somebody happens to know this piece, please let me know!

All the best,

Arto

PS The d-minor tuning is really a clever idea! I could not have imagined 
that before getting into it... :-)




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: What is this nice little piece?

[Arto Wikla]

On 19/05/12 22:18, Arto Wikla wrote:

Now also in Vimeo:  http://vimeo.com/42462352


Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a simple but also quite beautiful little piece to 
baroque lute. It is in one of the Kremsmunster mss., A-KR L83b, fol. 
25r, piece number 248.There is no name of the piece, neither of the 
composer, but somehow this piece sounds so familiar!


The piece is so song-like that I think it must be an instrumental 
arrangement of a song, perhaps taken from some popular opera around 
1700 in Vienna?


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be

So, if somebody happens to know this piece, please let me know!

All the best,

Arto

PS The d-minor tuning is really a clever idea! I could not have 
imagined that before getting into it... :-)




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Who wrote the ms. D-Bsa4060? And when?

[Arto Wikla]

Thanks Roman,

the 1945 history is now somehow cleared, and also Wikipedia tells much 
of the Singakademie.


But who copied - penned - the ms. D-Bsa4060? The style of writing the 
tabulature and also the line of the pen is something that I have not 
found in the genuine 17th century mss. As I wrote in my original message:
And how can this ms. be so clear? It looks like written/copied later 
than 17th century? The pen and the writing style looks more like 19th or 
even 20th century style. Could it have be written by some musicologist, 
who just copied many original 17th century mss.?


Any ideas?

Best,

Arto

On 29/04/12 14:48, Roman Turovsky wrote:

Arto,
Singacademie was in Berlin, and it was instrumental in preservation of 
JSB's works

and reputation, when it was led by C.F.Zelter and Mendelssohn.
Its archive was taken to Kiev as war booty, and stored at the 
conservatory. The archive survived
intact, unlike the collection of Lubeck Kunsthalle which was stolen 
piecemeal by the professors

of Kiev Art Academy where it was stored.
RT



- Original Message - From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: Lute net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 5:36 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 4060


New try. I sent this already yesterday, but it has not appeared. 
Sorry if this becomes a double:
- 


Very interesting and huge ms.! Thanks all involved!

Eagerly waiting also the intro by François-Pierre Goy in the Tree 
edition to come.


Before that proper analysis, it would be very interesting to hear at 
least something of the history of that ms. -- the 17th century 
history and also the 20th century history: the role of Kiev -- I can 
guess the point of history when the ms. was taken there... And what 
and where was that Singakademie?  And how can this ms. be so clear? 
It looks like written/copied later than 17th century? The pen and the 
writing style looks more like 19th or even 20th century style. Could 
it have be written by some musicologist, who just copied many 
original 17th century mss.?


Best,

Arto

On 25/04/12 22:34, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

Dear lute netters,

That's the famous manuscript of the Singakademie who came back from 
Kiew in the year 2000. I bought a microfiche and in February I was 
in Berlin, made the physical description and took photos of the 
watermarks etc. - and they didn't told me that they will publish the 
PDF...


But anyway: That's a great gift! A big thank you to the library and 
to Rainer who shared the link!


François-Pierre Goy and Tim Crawford are working on this very 
important source. François-Pierre Goy wrote an article and a whole 
inventory - but I don't know where it will be published. I will ask 
him when he's back from his holiday.


Enjoy the source!

Andreas

Am 25.04.2012 um 21:07 schrieb Rainer:


Dear lute netters,

I have no idea if this is new:

MS 4060 (750 pages) is on-line.

See

http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB78A3

Rainer adS




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Mouton's campanella technique

[wikla]

Dear Bernhard,

thanks! The 17706 (8r-8v) doesn't seem to indicate playing the 
campanella, as you also have written. On the other hand the Saizenay 
279153 (p. 114) does that, and uses special markings to that: g. and 
p.. What (French?) words could those mean?


Best,

Arto


On 12/04/12 09:45, Bernhard Fischer wrote:

Dear Arto,

This Mouton Prelude is well known and included in lute school books as
teaching material / example. It is included in several historic manuscripts
in various versions, with and without dissection the bass course. For your
kind information I attach my hand-written copy of this piece from the Vienna
MS 17706.

Best regards from Vienna,
Bernhard

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Arto Wikla
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. April 2012 18:50
An: Baroque Lute Net; vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Mouton's campanella technique

Dear baroque lutenists and guitarists,
I played a tiny Prelude by Mouton from his printed book Pieces de Luth,
page 1.  Here Mouton uses his unique(?) technique of playing first only
the low octave of a bass course and only after some higher strings the
upper octave of the same bass course. So it is actually the
campanella technique better known in baroque guitar music.
You can find my version in
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be
It is quite short, 46 seconds. The campanella passage starts in about
0:21, where the bass goes C-B-A-G-F (a'A5Hz).
Does anyone know, whether any other baroque lutenist used this
technique?
All the best,
Arto
--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Mouton's campanella technique

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists and guitarists,
   I played a tiny Prelude by Mouton from his printed book Pieces de Luth,
   page 1.  Here Mouton uses his unique(?) technique of playing first only
   the low octave of a bass course and only after some higher strings the
   upper octave of the same bass course. So it is actually the
   campanella technique better known in baroque guitar music.
   You can find my version in
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be
   It is quite short, 46 seconds. The campanella passage starts in about
   0:21, where the bass goes C-B-A-G-F (a'A5Hz).
   Does anyone know, whether any other baroque lutenist used this
   technique?
   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The rhythm shape of French cadences?

[Arto Wikla]

Thank you Mathias and Stewart!

Interesting discussion!

There is an intersting comment by Gallot to the way Stewart wrote:.

A baroque trill consists of three elements:

1) An appoggiatura, i.e. play the note above the written note first
(b2).

2) A trill with as many turns as you can sensibly fit in (a2 b2 a2 b2
a2).

3) A termination (optional) which rounds off the trill (d3 a2).

 |\   |\  |\  |\   |\|
 ||   |\  |\   |\|
 ||   |\  ||\|
 ||   |\  |.   |\|
___
___a__|__b___a_b_a_b_a___a__|__
___d__|___d_d___|__
__|__c__|__
__|_|__
__|_|__



More or less this type of cadence seems to be the norm today. But there 
is some info contradicting that:


George Torres translated the prefaces of several French lute books in 
JLSA XXXVI (2003) (published in 2008!) in his important article. In the 
Pieces de luth, Paris 1684, Gallot writes:


6. Join terminations (cadences) to the trills (tremblements) as much as 
is possible to do, and evenly.


In his footnote Torres explains the 6th point of Gallot:

Here Gallot is telling us to run the trills and their termination 
smoothly together, so that the notes flow with the same note values and 
emphasis into a smooth phrase. The habit he is warning against is 
letting the notes of the trill fade away, and then suddenly get loud for 
the two note termination.


Do we have more studies or knowledge of this question? Anything similar 
in the harpsichord studies?


All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Unmeasured preludes are like puzzles or enigmas.

[wikla]

Thanks Mathias!

And what you describe is just what I meant by solving the puzzle or 
breaking the code. If you don't do that, you'll get aleatoric music.
And just that solving - perhaps having different solutions that work - 
is what makes these pieces so interesting.


All the best,

Arto


On 26/03/12 00:28, Mathias Rösel wrote:

Dear Arto,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I have always enjoyed your
contributions.

Unmeasured preludes IMO are not as mysterious or tricky as we've been made
believe. And if I may add, certainly not aleatoric. What I'm looking for in
a prelude non mesuré, are harmonic cadences first. Cadences imply caesuras.
After that, I look for phrases or figures of speech, that I'm familiar with
from other written music of the time, and imitation or repetitive motives.
And that's it, mainly. Mouton once more comes out as the great teacher, that
he is, in that he supplied his free preludes with rhythm signs.

Mathias




-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
Auftrag von Arto Wikla
Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. März 2012 21:14
An: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Unmeasured preludes are like puzzles or enigmas.

Dear baroque musicians,

just a thought, no tubings! ;-)

Those unmeasured preludes of French baroque are interesting, demanding,
crazy and wonderful. You have to put your fingers so many times to the

strings

to get any idea, what really is there. It is somehow like trying to solve

a puzzle or

break the code of the enigma. Perhaps also like solving a crossword or

sudoku (I

like crosswords and never touch sudoku's).

I have not always managed to solve the problem and have still kind of
performed the piece... Kind of aleatoric music then...

Anyhow, now I try to get into the music of Mouton. To me his music seems

to be

even more difficult than many other French composers, also technically,

not

only as music.

So, no message here, no question, just flow of thinking... :)

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Unmeasured preludes are like puzzles or enigmas.

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque musicians,

just a thought, no tubings! ;-)

Those unmeasured preludes of French baroque are interesting, demanding, 
crazy and wonderful. You have to put your fingers so many times to the 
strings to get any idea, what really is there. It is somehow like trying 
to solve a puzzle or break the code of the enigma. Perhaps also like 
solving a crossword or sudoku (I like crosswords and never touch sudoku's).


I have not always managed to solve the problem and have still kind of 
performed the piece... Kind of aleatoric music then...


Anyhow, now I try to get into the music of Mouton. To me his music seems 
to be even more difficult than many other French composers, also 
technically, not only as music.


So, no message here, no question, just flow of thinking... :)

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Le Perier or Le Charmant Retour by Mouton?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

in the ms. Barbe there is an interesting piece Le Perier de Mouton (p. 
224-225). Does anyone have some information of that piece? Do you think 
it is a (strange) Chaconne? What could be the reference Le Perier? 
Some person or incident?


According to Peter's (wonderful) pages there is a concordance in ms. 
CZ-Pu ms. II.Kk.80, p. 90. There the piece is called Sarabande en 
Rondeau de Mouton, but in Peter's Barbe page there is also a name Le 
Charmant Retour... So, still more mysteries... Where does that name 
come from?


And btw, does any kind soul happen to have the ms. CZ-Pu ms. II.Kk.80 
(Praha, Národní knihovna CSR - Universitní knihovna) ... ;-)  It would 
be very interesting to compare the versions...


All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Anthony, Mathias and the List

Some personal aesthetic views of French style and Weiss et co:

I am not talking of some music being better or worse than some other 
music. Actually my opinion is also generally that no style of music is 
better or worse than any other style. Of course everyone has her/his 
preferences and no-no's, but that is subjective selection, not the truth.


I like very much the French 17th century lute music just because it is 
uneven and unpredictable; the lengths of phrases vary, there are 
unexpected harmonies, etc. Often it is like speaking, not so much like 
singing a versed poem. And just that attracts me - lots of information 
often in a small space.


To me the style of Weiss and other late baroque guys is quite often very 
square. Everything in pieces of this style usually behaves so well and 
educated. And it can be so predictable! And so often everything is 
repeated and repeated ad infinitum... On the other hand, it can be very 
song-like: beautiful melodies correctly harmonized. Groups of four 
bars elegantly set to the company of other four bars, A-section ending 
to the dominant key, B-section bringing it back to the tonic... Well, 
can sometimes be boring... (Of course there is also very enjoyable music 
by the late baroque composers, even to me! ;-)


Just today I (again) enjoyed the uneven and unpredictable French baroque 
in the company of Francois Dufault:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eIUhqvJ_zk

And yes, I know my graces should be more graceful, but anyhow I am just 
a Finn, not a Frenchman... ;-))


All the best,

Arto


On 17/03/12 15:32, Anthony Hind wrote:

Dear Mathias
Thanks for your explanations, yes I do understand your
feelings. I have a number of friends here in Paris, who prefer to play
Weiss (or similar) rather than French music, more or less for the
reasons you state.
Only the bare-bones seem to be encoded in the tablature, and a great
depth of understanding is needed to interpret the simplest of pieces.
Economy of composition and melodic ambiguity, seems almost
contradictory; French classic literature shows similar economy, but
seeks out le mot juste (whereas according to a recent BBC programme,
English authors delight in ambiguity).
I do delight in melodic ambiguity, but am far from mastering the art of
its interpretation or grasping the grammar of its rhetoric.
My first teacher, Terrence Waterhouse, before I temporarily retired
from lute playing, was a student of Michael Schaeffer, and I heard much
about his theoretical in-put, through him. At that time I was only
learning renaissance lute, and there was unfortunately a long break
before I returned to lute playing and the baroque lute.
I am in contact with an expert in the interpretation of the French
lute, and always amazed at how he makes a piece sing, or talk; in
comparison my playing is completely flat, but I strive on. I love his
playing of Weiss, but find it almost melodically indulgent (if you know
what I mean), I must be rather a melodic puritan, I fear.
Best wishes
Anthony
  __

De : Mathias Roeselmathias.roe...@t-online.de
A : baroque-lute mailing-listbaroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Samedi 17 mars 2012 10h56
Objet : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
Dear Anthony,
I do not blame you, and I hope you didn't offense in what I wrote. As
for
the Pieces de luth LP, I do regret that it was my first encounter
with
French baroque lute music. When I first listened, I was like, wow, they
had
jazz in the 17th century. It's so sophisticated, I couldn't tell triple
time
from even time by listening, I was amazed by the glittering sound,
amazed by
unexpected progress of harmonies, amazed by unidentifiable rhythmical
structures.
From then on, my idea of that music was, I kinda like it, but this is
so
artificial, I will never understand how it works. This music was
completely
veiled before my ears because of many rubatos, arpeggios instead of
broken
lines, and so on. Had I first listened to, say, Michael Schaeffer,
things
would have been different for me (but if and would are the fool's last
words). That first contact coined my idea of what French baroque lute
music
was.
And that's why I kept my hands off from it for a long time. Like many
others, I took my way through Giesbert's method and later through
Toyohiko
Satoh's. To me, the greatest composers who wrote for the baroque lute,
were
Bach and Weiss, and none other compared to them. I knew there was some
French music, but it was much too tricky and way not rewarding enough
as to
be worth a try. Sorry for oversimplification, but it comes close.
 He does mention his stringing in all the booklets 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Losy is interesting...

[Arto Wikla]

Losy seems to be different. For ex. he uses here and there jumps (leaps) 
of third and continues to the same direction, not filling the gap after 
the jump.


Just made an Allemande that has this:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrO0YxK-vOQ
   http://vimeo.com/37255747

Similiar features in also in a Capriccio:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEsM3RsE-Ys
   http://vimeo.com/37019606

I'll study more of his music...

Arto

PS The bass line in the beginning of this Allemande reminds me John 
Mayall's bass line in his piece It hurts me too! Happened to play that 
in my school year's blues band... ;-)




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: My adventure in f-minoRe: a suite Le triste depart

[wikla]

Dear Mathias,

thanks! :) 

Now I think it is time to try some Losy in C-major, no flats or sharps!
Some naturally in the pieces, though... A Swedish ms. and still yet another
Caro mio ben years before Giordiano... :)

Arto

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:31:36 +0100, Mathias Rösel
mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
 Dear Arto,
 
 Please do continue the good battle! 
 
 Mathias
 
 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
 Auftrag von wikla
 Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Februar 2012 22:46
 An: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] My adventure in f-minoRe: a suite Le triste
 depart
 
 Dear baroque lute friends,
 
 just hours ago I managed to finish my trip to the f-minor key, by
playing
 a suite
 written(?) to the poor (of course not economically!) young Lord Danby 
 The
 young Lord was perhaps just leaving either Hannover or Hamburg, when his
 (French?) lute teacher wrote a small suite to this youngster to make
 him feel
 missed and thus kind of happy and melancholic... But who knows...
 :-)
 
 Anyhow, the last part was - as usual - a Gigue, which is generally a
hard
 case to
 an old man as I am:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCxRmUW8XFk
 
 But the Gigue anyhow made the suite complete. And here you'll find - in
 case
 interested - the whole suite:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYSNQgI9jE
 
 And if you happen to want to see the written music, or even better to
 play it,
 you'll find the original tabulature here:
   http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/TristeDepartSuite/
 
 My comment on f-minor: For a while I'll definitely leave the notes Ab
and
 especially the Db to others... Back to the problematic G#'s and
 especially to the
 beautiful C#'s! Anyhow, actually the f-minor by baroque d-minor lute was
 very
 fun, interesting and enjoyable... :-))
 
 Love and peace,
 
 Arto
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] My adventure in f-minoRe: a suite Le triste depart

[wikla]

Dear baroque lute friends,

just hours ago I managed to finish my trip to the f-minor key, by playing a
suite written(?) to the poor (of course not economically!) young Lord Danby
 The young Lord was perhaps just leaving either Hannover or Hamburg, when
his (French?) lute teacher wrote a small suite to this youngster to make
him feel missed and thus kind of happy and melancholic... But who knows...
:-)

Anyhow, the last part was - as usual - a Gigue, which is generally a hard
case to an old man as I am:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCxRmUW8XFk

But the Gigue anyhow made the suite complete. And here you'll find - in
case interested - the whole suite:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYSNQgI9jE

And if you happen to want to see the written music, or even better to play
it, you'll find the original tabulature here:
  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/TristeDepartSuite/

My comment on f-minor: For a while I'll definitely leave the notes Ab and
especially the Db to others... Back to the problematic G#'s and especially
to the beautiful C#'s! Anyhow, actually the f-minor by baroque d-minor lute
was very fun, interesting and enjoyable... :-))

Love and peace,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strange and deformed music to a young innocent nobleman...

[wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

the young lord Danby's lute teacher in Hannover perhaps was friend of good
wine, because he even wrote this very strange and deformed Courante to
his innocent(?) pupil:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udkHrmV38w0
  http://vimeo.com/36158866

After playing that also I needed some wine: Argentinian Tarquino, Malbec /
Petit Verdot. 2011..;-)

Best, 

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] A-major and who is W

[wikla]

Hi b-lutenists,

I just made my first try in A-major. Interesting key in d-minor lute. Well
sounding, but really makes my brain quite confused... The piece is named
Aria W and it is followed by the Double without naming it Double. My
playing is in

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4TYJGLnBj0
and also
  http://vimeo.com/35425807

But who could this W composer be in this case? It is not me...;-) 

Perhaps S.L Weiss, J.S. Weiss, Weichenberg(-er), Wolkenstein-Rodenegg,
Weyll, Werner, Warner or Weichmanberg? 
I could not find any more W candidates among the baroque lute composers in
Peter S's wonderful pages...:-)

It doesn't sound S.L. Weiss. And I have no touch to the style of those
other W-composers.

Any guesses?

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] f#-minor feels good...:-)

[wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I just made my modest 1st tries on f#-minor pieces on d-minor baroque lute.
That key actually seems to be easier to get better in tune than the ET
compared to many of the easier keys! I am really quite surprised! If
interested, see my

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGrgWCakxwfeature=youtu.be
and also
  http://vimeo.com/35062443

It will be interesting to try more of this f#-minor! And also A-major seems
to have an interesting character...

Any experienced comments of the feel and touch of those 3 sharp + even more
-pieces?  :-)

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] D-major suite with written music

[wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

recent days I've played and tubed some pieces of A-KR L82a in D-major. I
just put the original music to be seen in
 
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/KremsmL82aDmajorSuite/

I included also my flagged version of the originally non-flagged
unmeasured Prelude, if somebody happens to be interested.

My unpolished played version is in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqc17HIdQZ4feature=youtu.be
and
  http://vimeo.com/34739879

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned lute...

[wikla]

I think V. Galilei says something also of this (p. 167 in Carol
MacClintock's translation):

[...] I can raise or lower the sound produced by the Mezzana struck at the
fourth fret as I please, and likewise that of the Tenore struck at the
first, and third, and any fret without altering any of the others in any
way. Do not believe that such _tastatura_ is difficult to make or to be put
to use, but consider it to be easy, and what is more important, convenient
and useful, not to say necessary, because of the variability of the
strings. These, after being plucked, most of the time hurt our ears with
the ordinary fretting - now too low, now too high - according to whether
they have been stretched on the lute many or few days.

Arto

On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 14:41:09 -0800 (PST), Christopher Wilke
chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 --- On Fri, 1/6/12, wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote:

 Are there really any serious lutenists, who just push the buttons,
just
 set the finger on the string without colouring the pitch by the finger
 pressure up or down?
 
 I find just pushing the buttons to be pretty hard in itself.
 
 Chris
 
 Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
 Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
 www.christopherwilke.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Arto
 
 On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 22:45:37 +0100, Jean-Marie Poirier
 jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
 David, I made amends for that mistake of mine ! ;-(
 
 There is another quotation from Mersenne I like very much :
 
 According to the common saying of musicians, the lute is the charlatan
 of
 music, because it passes off as good that whichis bad on good
 instruments... (Translated by Mark Lindley , Lutes, Viols and
 Temperaments, Cambridge University Press, 1984)
 
 I like the isea of playing a charlatan of music :-). Don't you ?
 
 Best,
 
 Jean-Marie
 
 =
   
 == En réponse au message du 06-01-2012, 22:39:12 ==
 
2012/1/6 Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr:

 I think his {Denis']  ivory frets, which could be adjusted
according
 to the required temperament, are only another experimental endeavour
 comparable with Galilei's suggested use of tastini


On the contrary, Galilei does not suggest the use of tastini, instead
he mentions them as ... tastini, which lately some people seek to
introduce in order to remove some of their sharpness from the thirds
and major tenths (as they try to persuade those who are more foolish
than they).(Fronimo 1584, translation Carol MacClintock 1985).

So Galilei was not in favour of tastini at all, but there were lute
players in his time who were. Nothing new, in other words. ;-)

David


-- 
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned lute...

[wikla]

So it seems to be easy to affect to the pitch by the finger pressure,
testimoned by our great Vincenco G. himself: Do not believe that such
_tastatura_ is difficult to make or to be put to use, but consider it to be
easy,

Here I strongly agree with VG! ;-)

Arto

On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 08:05:53 -0800 (PST), Christopher Wilke
chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Arto,
 
 --- On Sat, 1/7/12, wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote:
 
 These, after being plucked, most of the time hurt
 our ears with
 the ordinary fretting - now too low, now too high -
 according to whether
 they have been stretched on the lute many or few days.
 
 
 Yes.  This last sentence makes it clear that Galilei is not speaking
 specifically about temperament per se, but rather about correcting notes
 played on strings that have gone out of tune in general.  Obviously one
 should try to do this in the extremely rare instance that a lute string
has
 gone out of tune ;-).
 
 Chris
 
 Christopher Wilke, D.M.A.
 Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
 www.christopherwilke.com
 
 
 
 On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 14:41:09 -0800 (PST), Christopher Wilke
 chriswi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  --- On Fri, 1/6/12, wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
 wrote:
 
  Are there really any serious lutenists, who just
 push the buttons,
 just
  set the finger on the string without colouring
 the pitch by the finger
  pressure up or down?
  
  I find just pushing the buttons to be pretty hard in
 itself.
  
  Chris
  
  Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
  Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
  www.christopherwilke.com
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Arto
  
  On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 22:45:37 +0100, Jean-Marie
 Poirier
  jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
 wrote:
  David, I made amends for that mistake of mine !
 ;-(
  
  There is another quotation from Mersenne I like
 very much :
  
  According to the common saying of musicians, the
 lute is the charlatan
  of
  music, because it passes off as good that whichis
 bad on good
  instruments... (Translated by Mark Lindley ,
 Lutes, Viols and
  Temperaments, Cambridge University Press, 1984)
  
  I like the isea of playing a charlatan of music
 :-). Don't you ?
  
  Best,
  
  Jean-Marie
  
  =
    
  == En réponse au message du 06-01-2012, 22:39:12
 ==
  
 2012/1/6 Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr:
 
  I think his {Denis']  ivory frets,
 which could be adjusted
 according
  to the required temperament, are only
 another experimental endeavour
  comparable with Galilei's suggested use of
 tastini
 
 
 On the contrary, Galilei does not suggest the
 use of tastini, instead
 he mentions them as ... tastini, which lately
 some people seek to
 introduce in order to remove some of their
 sharpness from the thirds
 and major tenths (as they try to persuade those
 who are more foolish
 than they).(Fronimo 1584, translation Carol
 MacClintock 1985).
 
 So Galilei was not in favour of tastini at all,
 but there were lute
 players in his time who were. Nothing new, in
 other words. ;-)
 
 David
 
 
 -- 
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information
 at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned lute...

[wikla]

Well, my original mail on this subject referred - among other things -
about the possibility of correcting the tuning on higher frets easier than
on the first fret: the first fret bb and f# are hard to tune by left hand
pressure - that problem becomes much easier on higher frets. Perhaps this
correcting is the charlatan of us lutenists? :)

Are there really any serious lutenists, who just push the buttons, just
set the finger on the string without colouring the pitch by the finger
pressure up or down?

Best,

Arto

On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 22:45:37 +0100, Jean-Marie Poirier
jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
 David, I made amends for that mistake of mine ! ;-(
 
 There is another quotation from Mersenne I like very much :
 
 According to the common saying of musicians, the lute is the charlatan
of
 music, because it passes off as good that whichis bad on good
 instruments... (Translated by Mark Lindley , Lutes, Viols and
 Temperaments, Cambridge University Press, 1984)
 
 I like the isea of playing a charlatan of music :-). Don't you ?
 
 Best,
 
 Jean-Marie
 
 =
   
 == En réponse au message du 06-01-2012, 22:39:12 ==
 
2012/1/6 Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr:

 I think his {Denis']  ivory frets, which could be adjusted according
 to the required temperament, are only another experimental endeavour
 comparable with Galilei's suggested use of tastini


On the contrary, Galilei does not suggest the use of tastini, instead
he mentions them as ... tastini, which lately some people seek to
introduce in order to remove some of their sharpness from the thirds
and major tenths (as they try to persuade those who are more foolish
than they).(Fronimo 1584, translation Carol MacClintock 1985).

So Galilei was not in favour of tastini at all, but there were lute
players in his time who were. Nothing new, in other words. ;-)

David


-- 
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned lute...

[wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

to me - a newcomer to the d-minor lutes - the keys with one or two sharps
seem to be much easier to get in better tuning than the equal temperament!
Is this perhaps already a commonly known fact? 

On the other hand, for ex. the g-minor is problematic with its f# and bb on
the same - and 1st! - fret. On higher frets it is much easier to affect to
the pitch. 

Just wondering, how would that be with three sharps... f# minor and A major
.. ;)  Any experienced opinions by lutenists interested in better than ET
tuning?   ;-)

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rif: Keys in baroque lute music

[wikla]

Dear Peter,

oh yes! But in that case it anyhow tells something of the _popularity_ 
of the keys!


Best regards,

Arto

PS And thanks and thanks again for your enormously useful database!



On 19/12/11 13:54, Peter Steur wrote:

--Boundary-00=_X29GM5C5BHK0
Content-Type: Text/Plain;
   charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Arto,

as a metrologist (that's my daily work, like Finland's MIKES) immediately an
error comes to mind, regarding your percentages. As far as I know, the
program running the website  filters the whole database, but it doesn't take
any 'doubles' into account, and some pieces were very popular and are cited
in many, many manuscripts, e.g. Gaultier's Canon or La belle homicide. These
surely skew the results you obtained.

But it still remains interesting ...

Best regards,

Peter


---Messaggio originale---

Da: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
Data: 19/12/2011 11.52.54
A: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Oggetto: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Keys in baroque lute music

Dear baroque lutenists,

Just for fun and for pure academic interest I made some data mining
using Peter Steur's wonderful and extremely useful pages
Music for the Baroque Lute -A Database of Manuscripts and Printsfor the
Baroque Lute:
http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=engid=0type=index

I filtered the database by the keys of pieces. Of course there can be
some errors is such a big database, but I think these numbers still give
quite good approximation of the situation. The database includes also
pieces in accords noveaux and in the d-major tuning, etc.

Below I use Peter's filter names for keys. In his words: Major keys use
upper case and minor keys lower case, that can be followed by b or #
(e.g. f# for f sharp minor or Eb for E flat Major). Unfortunately, as
some keys different denotations (e.g. D# and Eb), at the moment possibly
not all entries will be found.

There is some more info in my page
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/KeysOfBaroqueLute.html

but the final result is

The %'s in the order of the %'s %

d2453  13.56
F2437  13.47
g1843  10.18
C1764   9.75
a1677   9.27
Bb   1671   9.23
D1599   8.84
G1488   8.22
A1254   6.93
c 869   4.80
f#419   2.32
e 224   1.24
b 130   0.72
f  98   0.54
Eb 78   0.43
D# 56   0.31
bb 27   0.15
G#  6   0.03
E   3   0.02

total number of pieces: 18096
total number of %'s: 100.1 % (just for checking...)



Nothing unexpected there, but anyhow interesting. And at least there is
lot of music to be played! :-)


All the best,

Arto




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--Boundary-00=_X29GM5C5BHK0--

--

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-minor suite with tabulature!

[wikla]

Isn't it strange: I sincerely do not know, whether my playing was
considered horrible or at least shameful, or perhaps acceptable. And did
you like publishing the written music. This is the old internet phenomenon,
I guess... 
Anyhow, didn't anyone try to play those pieces, and perhaps enjoyed of
playing them?   ;(

Arto


On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:54:24 +0200, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote:
 Dear baroque lutenists,
 
 I glued together the pieces in b-minor to make a small suite:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Yqo9S2KTs
 
 I also put the tabulature of the pieces in public:
 
   
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/KremsmL85BminorSuite/
 
 B-minor is amazingly good key to d-minor lute! I wonder why it is so
rare.
 
 All the best,
 
 Arto
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strange piece, a Retirada...

[wikla]

Dear b-lutenists,

I found a very strange piece, Retirada (=retreat) by some anonymous perhaps
Austrian (=Imperial?) composer. 

Just tubed it:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zPZLFLOcvYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/33677076

Any idea of possible composer? Even any idea, who could have had similiar
style in writing to the lute?

best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: the Scandinavian lute project

[wikla]

Tuomas plays your arr very beautifull! But I think in Europe the least
ideology we need today is nationalism! Too much of that already!

Arto

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:34:45 -0500, Roman Turovsky
r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
 I have revived my Swedish+ lute-project,
 with a fine ice-breaking video by Tuomas Rauramaa -
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/carolin.html
 
 This might turn into another project for the radio,
 that is if we get some participation!
 Enjoy,
 RT
 
 related projects
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/kalevala.html
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/lieder/scandinavian.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: the Scandinavian lute project

[wikla]

Dear Roman, you seem not to follow the recent politics in Finland and
Sweden... beato tuo... ;)

Arto

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:25:23 -0500, roman turovsky vze25...@verizon.net
wrote:
 if all nationalisms were like the Scandinavian ones -
 the world would have been quite livable.
 RT
 
 
 From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
 Tuomas plays your arr very beautifull! But I think in Europe the least
 ideology we need today is nationalism! Too much of that already!
 
 Arto
 
 On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:34:45 -0500, Roman Turovsky
 r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
 I have revived my Swedish+ lute-project,
 with a fine ice-breaking video by Tuomas Rauramaa -
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/carolin.html
 
 This might turn into another project for the radio,
 that is if we get some participation!
 Enjoy,
 RT
 
 related projects
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/kalevala.html
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/lieder/scandinavian.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: the Scandinavian lute project

[wikla]

Well Roman, I advice you of not being too clever of Scandinavian, Finnish
and also even all-European affairs nowadays... I sincerely oppose any
nationalistic movements here for very well founded reasons...

But this really has nothing to do with our wonderful baroque lute list! So
please Roman, let us stop this thread just now!

Arto

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:37:35 -0500, Roman Turovsky
r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
 I am well aware of the muslim mischief that occurs there,
 but that is an imported issue.
 RT
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
 To: roman turovsky vze25...@verizon.net
 Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 5:32 PM
 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: the Scandinavian lute project
 
 
 Dear Roman, you seem not to follow the recent politics in Finland and
 Sweden... beato tuo... ;)

 Arto

 On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:25:23 -0500, roman turovsky 
 vze25...@verizon.net
 wrote:
 if all nationalisms were like the Scandinavian ones -
 the world would have been quite livable.
 RT


 From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
 Tuomas plays your arr very beautifull! But I think in Europe the least
 ideology we need today is nationalism! Too much of that already!

 Arto

 On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:34:45 -0500, Roman Turovsky
 r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
 I have revived my Swedish+ lute-project,
 with a fine ice-breaking video by Tuomas Rauramaa -
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/carolin.html

 This might turn into another project for the radio,
 that is if we get some participation!
 Enjoy,
 RT

 related projects
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/kalevala.html
 http://www.polyhymnion.org/lieder/scandinavian.html






 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Male alto in Lute songs? wasTransposing lute tablature on sight

[wikla]

Does he really also sing?!

Arto

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:19:05 -0500, Roman Turovsky
r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
 And speaking of such truly accomplished singers as Karamazov:
 He tends to have 4-6 archlutes on hand, for various minute instant 
 adjustments of performance.
 RT
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
 To: Baroque lute Dmth baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; lute mailing
list
 
 list l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 2:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Male alto in Lute songs? wasTransposing
 lute 
 tablature on sight
 
 
 The most-accomplished players are usually the ones own several
 variously
 pitched lutes, for said occacions.
 RT

 - Original Message - 
 On Dec 2, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Nancy Carlin wrote:

   A while back on the lute list there was a link to Hector Sequera's
   dissertation about Paston - very interesting. It's 100 years
earlier,

 Actually, Paston, being Elizabethan, is the period we're talking about.

 You were led astray by my example of Handel in 1729; I brought it up 
 because it's different from the subject under discussion.

   but goes into a lot of detail about the various keys in the Paston
   manuscripts and the sizes of lutes that would have been available to
   Paston.  It's pretty clear that Paston would have gotten out a
   different sized lute rather than transposing.

 As would all but the most accomplished players.





 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strange piece: XXXIX Tanz in ms. Wittgenstein

[wikla]

Dear b-lutenists (cc to normal lutenists)

Today I tubed an interesting and in some ways strange piece, a Tanz
(XXXIX) in ms. Wittgenstein. While the piece is in a way very simple, it is
also interestingly strange - I have not analysed it yet, but something nice
happens there here and there. And it was (and still is!) also quite hard to
play. I cannot either explain, why it is so...

In case you do not take this message as shameless self promotion (which
it perhaps also could be taken? ;-), you can find my (more or less modest)
version in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcEeof9KPI
and also in
  http://vimeo.com/32463413

There is also something familiar in this piece. Any ideas?

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute recording Project - First 50

[wikla]

You are doing great and very important work! Thanks for that!

Arto

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:08:00 +, Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com
wrote:
 I've just uploaded the first 50 (actually 51) pieces from the Balcarres
manuscript. Judging by my previous Scottish lute CDs, that's about a
double album's worth. I'm not sure how many sound files there will be
at the end of the road, but there are 252 in Balcarres alone...
 
Much of my previous performing and CD recording from Balcarres came
from the D Major tuning section near the end of the manuscript, so
much
of what I have recorded so far is new to me, and I have to say I am
impressed with the breadth of repertoire found in the first fifty.
Yes,
those beautiful pentatonic and hexatonic melodies are there, but also
a
deep French influence. Through the help of the internet (thanks,
Arto!), we even found one piece (no.34, Belle Heureus) is an
arrangement of a song from a ballet by Lully. Some of the pieces seem
to be by Scots in imitation of the French style. Looking ahead, of
course, there are some bonny works by known Parisian lute players.
Stay
tuned.
 
The reason for doing this marathon is to find out what exactly is
there. Looking at international lute recitals, youtube videos, etc,
the
same pieces keep cropping up. It is my hope that lute players will
broaden their appreciation of the variety of music in these
manuscripts, and hopefully start performing some of the many neglected
pieces.
 
But I also hope that players of instruments other than the lute, such
as harp, clarsach, pipes and fiddle (to name the more obvious) will
take an interest. After all, many of these settings are arrangements
of
the early repertoires of these instruments.
 
The website: [1]http://ScottishLute.com
 
Well, onwards and onwards...
 
Rob MacKillop
--
 
 References
 
1. http://ScottishLute.com/
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Angelique music?

[wikla]

Thanks Rock M.!

I try to find your Kremberg example in Vihuela Ning. I don't know if I can
get in there.
What I had in mind is the Tree edition:
-
MANUSCRIPT SCHWERIN 640
Music for Angélique, transposed for Baroque Lute by Michael Treder
The manuscript contains 144 pieces in different keys. As composers are
identified Jean-Baptiste, Jean-Louis and Louis Lully, de Launay,
D. Gaultier, Losy, Steffani, Dubut, Hardel, Dufaut, Gallot, Vieux Gaultier.
-

I plan to order that. Seems to be very interesting. But the original ms.
seems to be a really rich source to that very unknown instrument! Many of
the great baroque lute guys' pieces to that harp in the shape of theorbo!
I would love to see, how this music works that way! And also: are 14
strings enough to many of those pieces...

Arto

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:09:45 -0500, Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net wrote:
 You did ask for _any_ music...
 
 There is one example of Angelique music in my Kremberg edition on my  
 Early Guitar and Vihuela Ning page. Page 29 of the PDF.
 
 Krembergs tuning chart shows 16 (if I've counted correctly), but the  
 music for the sample piece uses (only) 13.
 
 Have fun with your exploration!
 
 -- R
 
 On Nov 4, 2011, at 3:52 PM, wikla wrote:
 
 Dear lutenists,

 do you know if any music for angelique have been published, or even  
 better
 on-line in the net? The Tree Edition seems to have published a
 transcription of one important ms. to baroque lute, but is the source
 available somewhere?

 I am just thinking of stringing my lesser French theorbo to  
 angelique.
 But are 14 strings enough to angelique repertoire? I think  
 angeliques had
 at least a couple of more strings, but how important are those to the
 repertoire? I would like to have a look... ;-)

 Thanks in advance,

 Arto



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: I got another 11-courser

[wikla]

   There seems to be versions of this piece by exceptionally many and
   different names:
   The Air 16v  D-Witt / 16v
   is also
   1. [1]A-KR77 / 40v (Menuett)   |  2. [2]A-KR82b / 16r   |
   3. [3]D-B40149 / 36 (Gavotta)   |  4. [4]PL-Wn396 / 213v (Canarie)   |
   5. [5]PL-Wu2010 / 23 (Fuga)   |  6. [6]US-Danby / 86 (Menuet)
   (See Peters S's page
   [7]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=msms=D-Wittlang=engshow
   mss=1
   item 43.)
   So the piece is Air, Menuet, Gavotta, Canarie or even Fuga!
   Is this a record in naming a lute piece?  :-)
   Arto
   On 30/10/11 23:10, [8]ar...@student.matnat.uio.no wrote:

At page 295 in Lundgren's Baroque lute companion there is a version of
this piece from Kremsmunster L82. Also Anonymous, and more menuet like in
my opinion.


Are


Dear b-lutenists,

Today I got a new 11-course baroque lute, model J.C. Hoffmann. The lute is
made by young new maker, Lauri Niskanen here in Finland. The instrument
was
finished just the day before yesterday. So it is really very new! And I
have had it only a few hours... My firs try is an anonymous Air in ms.
Wittgenstein:
  [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJogB6wxB3U

After the piece I also show the instrument. The strings are Mimmo's NNG's
and D's.

It is always exiting to get a new instrument!

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
[10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





   --

References

   1. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=A-KR77page=40v
   2. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=A-KR82bpage=16r
   3. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=D-B40149page=36
   4. 
http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=PL-Wn396page=213v
   5. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=PL-Wu2010page=23
   6. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mslang=engms=US-Danbypage=86
   7. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=msms=D-Wittlang=engshowmss=1
   8. mailto:ar...@student.matnat.uio.no
   9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJogB6wxB3U
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: I got another 11-courser

[wikla]

Thanks! :-)

That is actually interesting! A very new instrument will change its
character quite quickly. Let us hope my new Niskanen lute will get even
better in time... Interesting days to come. Must check also different
musical styles.

Arto

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 22:41:51 +0100, Charles Browne
char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
 Arto, your new lute sounds very good even though it has only just been
 made. to my ears the tone is clearer and the basses project better. I
look
 forward to more of your recordings as the lute develops!
 best wishes
 Charles 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids

[wikla]

Dear Roman,

I have occasionally(?) identified dodgy intonation also by nylon (etc.)
strings, not only by gut strung instruments. And also pure and enjoyable
intonation by both! Intonation certainly is not a question about the string
material, but - well - it is a question about the intonator, the player!
And you certainly should be able to fine tune your intonation better than
equal temperament. Strong fingers and not too much string tension... ;-)

Arto

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:19:14 -0400, Roman Turovsky wrote:
 However there is a occaional give-away:
 one can often identify gut by its dodgy intonation.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Suite Frondeurs by Pinel

[wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I combined, glued together, some pieces by Pinel to make a suite in
d-minor. Actually it is not a real suite, but only a set of (good) pieces
in d-minor.

I just YouTubed these pieces, and found out that they make up a nice set of
pieces. A suite perhaps? I made the original tabulatures public - they
are good music! See below.

Here is my explanation in the YouTube, with the address to the written
music:

This suite, Entree de Luth - Allemande - Courante - Sarabande - Brandle
des Frondeurs, is combined of my previous single videos of pieces in mss.
Schwerin and Barbe. Instead of real suite this perhaps should just be
called pieces in d-minor. Recorded in September 29 to October 13, 2011.
You can find the music, the original lute tabulatures of these pieces, at
the end of page http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/. The
instrument is 11-course baroque lute made by Lars Jönsson in 1993. Arto
Wikla 13.9.2011.


All the merits belong to Pinel, the faults, of course, are mine!

And btw, I think Pinel, while not very daring in his harmonies as for ex.
Gallot, is very very good in his making of melodies!

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Suite Frondeurs by Pinel

[wikla]

Oops, I forgot the link! 

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPv8wPd_gjM

Arto

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 21:26:53 +0300, wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote:
 Dear baroque lutenists,
 
 I combined, glued together, some pieces by Pinel to make a suite in
 d-minor. Actually it is not a real suite, but only a set of (good) pieces
 in d-minor.
 
 I just YouTubed these pieces, and found out that they make up a nice set
of
 pieces. A suite perhaps? I made the original tabulatures public - they
 are good music! See below.
 
 Here is my explanation in the YouTube, with the address to the written
 music:


 This suite, Entree de Luth - Allemande - Courante - Sarabande - Brandle
 des Frondeurs, is combined of my previous single videos of pieces in mss.
 Schwerin and Barbe. Instead of real suite this perhaps should just be
 called pieces in d-minor. Recorded in September 29 to October 13, 2011.
 You can find the music, the original lute tabulatures of these pieces, at
 the end of page http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/. The
 instrument is 11-course baroque lute made by Lars Jönsson in 1993. Arto
 Wikla 13.9.2011.


 
 All the merits belong to Pinel, the faults, of course, are mine!
 
 And btw, I think Pinel, while not very daring in his harmonies as for ex.
 Gallot, is very very good in his making of melodies!
 
 All the best,
 
 Arto
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strage Courante by Pinel

[wikla]

Dear b-lutenists,

the Courante by Pinel in ms. Barbe, page 10, is strange:

1) 13 bars in A section. Perhaps I understand the repeat wrongly, but I
cannot see any other way.
2) The beginning of section B is melodically strange, a whole bar
dissonance to consonance.
3) The petite reprise is melodically odd: very large leap to dissonance.
4) Nearly all the piece is in very low register.

Just tried to do it:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2XvZj9adXY
  http://vimeo.com/30145704

The low harmonies are hard to make to sound well. Even by gut strings. I
suppose by synthetics that would be even harder?

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pinel?

[wikla]

Well, hi guys and gils,

here I am again... ;-)

Just made a tubing of a piece by Pinel, an Allemande. Pinel seems not to
be very brave in his harmonies, but his sense of melody is strong: very
touching, at least to me:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYe5SyncCXw
  http://vimeo.com/29793954 (Vimeo seems to be vanishing?)

Btw, is there any more info since the Minkoff edition of ms. Barbe, about
Pinel? Even his first name in Minkoff was marked with a question mark:
Germain(?) there.

[At least RT should understand my advertising, I guess...;-]

Best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Suite Plaignante ou La Belle Taille (ms. Danby)

[wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I glued together some pieces in g minor of ms. Danby:
   Ouverture, Courante, Sarabande plaignante et Double, La Belle Taille,

tubed them and made also a pdf of this suite.

Tubings (8 minutes) in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2a_c5BAoLo
  http://vimeo.com/29155046

Pdf at the end of
  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html