Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
We'll pay for the research, you just pay for the raw material. On Feb 12, 2008 11:10 AM, Vivec [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean the drug patents that US firms own that they use to set a high price of drugs? Or are you referring to the lawsuits and great hullabaloo when other countries try to produce and distribute the same drugs for far less? If other countries paid their share we wouldn't have to subsidies the world with our drugs and we'd all pay a fair price. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254024 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
You mean the drug patents that US firms own that they use to set a high price of drugs? Or are you referring to the lawsuits and great hullabaloo when other countries try to produce and distribute the same drugs for far less? If other countries paid their share we wouldn't have to subsidies the world with our drugs and we'd all pay a fair price. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254017 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
No he means the costs associated with research, the approval process and setting up initial manufacturing. Vivec wrote: You mean the drug patents that US firms own that they use to set a high price of drugs? Or are you referring to the lawsuits and great hullabaloo when other countries try to produce and distribute the same drugs for far less? If other countries paid their share we wouldn't have to subsidies the world with our drugs and we'd all pay a fair price. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254025 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Not when we're talking about medical insurance. This was in reference to the most common reason for bankruptcy. The *underlying* cause for over half of them is now medical costs...irrespective of whether the person is insured or not. The job loss is just secondary to that. That to me means we have a serious problem in this country! People should not be at risk of losing everything just because they get sick or injured. How do you feel about mandating that small businesses provide insurance or pay it in taxes? Then there's mandatory child coverage, nice to have but if people are struggling now where's the money going to come from? I am only in favor of mandating insurance if a low-cost buy-in plan for everyone is in place. Right now, the insurance costs are rising considerably faster than the cost of living, it simply can't continue. I have a friend whose family plan went up because he didn't visit the doctor enough. That's a new one...I think insurance just comes up with any reason at all to raise your rates. If other countries paid their share we wouldn't have to subsidies the world with our drugs and we'd all pay a fair price. Regardless, it's something that should be addressed as well. It only makes sense that if you take all the people that aren't in groups, group them together, you have the largest group with the biggest influence. Why doesn't that happen? It's something we need a law to allow. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254008 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Boils down to this, insurance is provided on the basis of risk by a private company. Taxes, fire and police are all related to government services and are provided for all regardless of risk, or you couldn't live in da ghetto Mary Jo Sminkey wrote: You just proved it was job loss. There's a big difference between job loss due to medical reasons and eventually ending in bankruptcy...and just losing a job. Are you saying you want your medical insurance to also pay your person bills while you're sick? Of course not...the point is that most people simply cannot afford to get sick and handle *those* costs on top of personal bills. I'm talking about insurance risk. If they know your meds are guaranteed to be $300 a month plus and mine are zero I should pay less. Why? Should you pay less in taxes for your fire or police service if you haven't been robbed or had a fire versus someone that has? Again, there seems to be some blame being put on people here for medical problems, and the vast majority of people have no such control that you seem to be implying. Not at all, just like people that often crash their car can have insurance but they have to pay more. Again, there is a lot more control over how often you crash your car versus what kind of medical assistance you might need. My dad gave up his construction business to become a janitor so he'd get a pension and medical insurance. We have choices. Sorry, but it's not so easy for many people. Insurance costs even for the insured continue to rise, having a job is no guarantee of financial safety (again, refer to that article link I posted). I remember when I could get a job and have good coverage at no cost (being single). Those types of jobs are few and far between these days. If you can't afford it look for other alternatives like working for a larger company that can provide insurance or join a group somehow. Luckily I can afford it for now, but this sentiment is exactly why small businesses are having such a hard time these days (among other reasons) and very few people able to be self-employed and truly be safe from bankruptcy. You can be denied individual insurance for pretty much anything and if you do get it, the cost is quite substantial. But the biggest problem is that it's such a huge risk. I really do worry about what is going to happen if anything really serious happens. It could wipe out my life savings, if not worse. It's the main reason I do still do a lot of preventative, diagnostic stuff every year or two, since my reflux does put me at high risk of some types of cancer. There are ways to get coverage but you just want someone else to help you pay. That's what groups are for not the government. Wrong, it has nothing to do with making someone else pay. If I felt confident that what I paid now would protect me in the case of serious illness, I'd be satisfied. It's a lot, but it's still not such a huge part of my income that I couldn't deal with it. The problem is the cost goes up every year, and in the case of something serious happening, the coverage quite simply is not sufficient. We're talking about two people making the same wage and one needs $300 a month worth of meds and the other needs nothing. You want my bill to be higher so yours is lower. Again, you're not getting the picture here. The costs of meds is a totally different issue, it ticks me off that I have to pay so much when people in other countries get the same meds for a reasonable price, not that I think someone else needs to pay for them. But it also frustrates me that people on company plans get decent prescription plans, the same should be available to everyone. Why should company plans have decent prescription plans and individuals not be allowed the same benefit? The same way that I should be able to deduct fully my health insurance premiums before tax the way that corporations can (it gets included when you calculate self-employed tax.) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253978 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
It's much cheaper to produce paper from hemp, and hemp is renewable on a yearly basis, instead of tens to hundreds of years. If we could produce hemp based paper on a large scale it would put a MAJOR dent in the logging industry. Certainly the hemp enthusiasts will tell you that (in regards to it being cheap)... but it's not really true. Just look at the other countries that do allow hemp production...it's used widely for textiles, rope, etc. but fairly limited use for paper production. Here's a good paper on the subject, and why this is so: http://mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha01105.html Certainly a switch is still important for environmental reasons, but it's not a matter of just allowing hemp to be produced, it will take a lot more than just that. Hemp and marijuana are related plants (so are hops) but their not the same plant as many think. True, but one of the arguments against hemp is that they look the same, so you would have to have inspections to make sure of which is being grown. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253921 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
On Feb 11, 2008 11:32 AM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The number one cause of bankruptcy is losing your job. Really? Show me something to prove that. Here's a study published a few years ago showing that half of all bankruptcies were from medical causesthe illness often *causing* job loss and then loss of coverage, so it wasn't the primary factor. http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1 You just proved it was job loss. Are you saying you want your medical insurance to also pay your person bills while you're sick? I'm not sure why you want me to pay for your meds. You pay $400 a month and your meds cost $300 that leaves $1200 a year for all other medical costs. Huh?? I don't follow this at all. Where did you get this $400 a month from? Is that for insurance? Deductible? Co-Pay? My costs are way higher than $400/month, this just doesn't make any sense. And $1200 regardless is virtually nothing when it comes to medical care. One even minor injury can eat that up in no time. So not sure what your point here is. Maybe this will shed better light on the kinds of costs and how out of reach they are getting for most people/businesses/etc.: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml I'm talking about insurance risk. If they know your meds are guaranteed to be $300 a month plus and mine are zero I should pay less. But I don't mind paying an extra hundred or two so your payments are lower. Just don't ask me to pay all your costs. What, because I have medical problems? Yeah, exactly. That's why I can't get decent coverage, and what I can get costs ridiculously high amounts, has high deductibles and co-pays, etc. In many states I would not be able to be insured at all. Are you saying that anyone with medical problems doesn't deserve to have insurance? Not at all, just like people that often crash their car can have insurance but they have to pay more. If we work at the same company we'd pay the same. If we both get insurance on our own we pay by the risk. Same goes with life insurance. Bush's plan would make it easier for us to join a group and distribute the fees evenly. Gee, how lucky for you. I unfortunately inherited this problem from my dad, have already been through one surgery for it, do all the things I'm supposed to do (lost weight, don't eat the wrong foods, etc.) but it's simply not going to go away. My dad gave up his construction business to become a janitor so he'd get a pension and medical insurance. We have choices. I don't mind subsidizing the poor with my insurance payments but not the people that don't need it. What the? Are you saying I don't need medical treatment? Or that if I can't afford the more expensive treatment that would help me, then that's just too bad? Come tell me that again, when you get cancer in 10 years or so, can't keep your job, lose your insurance, can't afford the cost of treatment, etc. Then maybe you will feel differently about the situation. This is one of the problems with getting any support for changing the current system...people that have never been through any kind of illness have no idea how at risk they really are, and just stick their head in the sand and say, I shouldn't have to pay for all the others that have problems. Well guess what, that's what being part of a society is all about. Helping those that are less fortunate that you...and that doesn't just mean those that are poor...it means any of those that are suffering for whatever reason. Thanks for those sweet wishes :) I'm saying if you're self employed and making money you have to pay insurance based on your risk factor. If you can't afford it look for other alternatives like working for a larger company that can provide insurance or join a group somehow. There are ways to get coverage but you just want someone else to help you pay. That's what groups are for not the government. We're not talking about the less fortunate, they get aid. We're talking about two people making the same wage and one needs $300 a month worth of meds and the other needs nothing. You want my bill to be higher so yours is lower. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253936 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
The number one cause of bankruptcy is losing your job. Really? Show me something to prove that. Here's a study published a few years ago showing that half of all bankruptcies were from medical causesthe illness often *causing* job loss and then loss of coverage, so it wasn't the primary factor. http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1 My dad drinks a glass of water with baking soda since I can remembe even though his insurance covers the expensive drugs. Well good for him, even with insurance, that's a cost savings for him. I generally avoid taking drugs when I can as well (I take enough vitamins and pills everyday as it is.) I'm not sure why you want me to pay for your meds. You pay $400 a month and your meds cost $300 that leaves $1200 a year for all other medical costs. Huh?? I don't follow this at all. Where did you get this $400 a month from? Is that for insurance? Deductible? Co-Pay? My costs are way higher than $400/month, this just doesn't make any sense. And $1200 regardless is virtually nothing when it comes to medical care. One even minor injury can eat that up in no time. So not sure what your point here is. Maybe this will shed better light on the kinds of costs and how out of reach they are getting for most people/businesses/etc.: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml Sounds like an insurance risk. What, because I have medical problems? Yeah, exactly. That's why I can't get decent coverage, and what I can get costs ridiculously high amounts, has high deductibles and co-pays, etc. In many states I would not be able to be insured at all. Are you saying that anyone with medical problems doesn't deserve to have insurance? I was never admitted to a hospital and never prescribed anything other than antibiotics. Gee, how lucky for you. I unfortunately inherited this problem from my dad, have already been through one surgery for it, do all the things I'm supposed to do (lost weight, don't eat the wrong foods, etc.) but it's simply not going to go away. I don't mind subsidizing the poor with my insurance payments but not the people that don't need it. What the? Are you saying I don't need medical treatment? Or that if I can't afford the more expensive treatment that would help me, then that's just too bad? Come tell me that again, when you get cancer in 10 years or so, can't keep your job, lose your insurance, can't afford the cost of treatment, etc. Then maybe you will feel differently about the situation. This is one of the problems with getting any support for changing the current system...people that have never been through any kind of illness have no idea how at risk they really are, and just stick their head in the sand and say, I shouldn't have to pay for all the others that have problems. Well guess what, that's what being part of a society is all about. Helping those that are less fortunate that you...and that doesn't just mean those that are poor...it means any of those that are suffering for whatever reason. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253914 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
The first step in changing a taboo is to change the terminology. Have you ever noticed that pro-choice people hardly ever use the word 'abortion' in public discourse? Have you noticed that pro-life people never use the term 'fetus'? Do you think that is a coincidence? If those in favor of legalizing marijuana aren't smart enough to think of a more benign term for the object of their affection, then nothing will change. -Original Message- From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:26 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary and those of us that think it's gay that pot is taboo but booze and smokes are fine? Billy Cox wrote: Those in favor of legalizing marijuana for medical use would be smart to stop using the street name for the drug. Language is very powerful in shaping opinions. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253865 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
You just proved it was job loss. There's a big difference between job loss due to medical reasons and eventually ending in bankruptcy...and just losing a job. Are you saying you want your medical insurance to also pay your person bills while you're sick? Of course not...the point is that most people simply cannot afford to get sick and handle *those* costs on top of personal bills. I'm talking about insurance risk. If they know your meds are guaranteed to be $300 a month plus and mine are zero I should pay less. Why? Should you pay less in taxes for your fire or police service if you haven't been robbed or had a fire versus someone that has? Again, there seems to be some blame being put on people here for medical problems, and the vast majority of people have no such control that you seem to be implying. Not at all, just like people that often crash their car can have insurance but they have to pay more. Again, there is a lot more control over how often you crash your car versus what kind of medical assistance you might need. My dad gave up his construction business to become a janitor so he'd get a pension and medical insurance. We have choices. Sorry, but it's not so easy for many people. Insurance costs even for the insured continue to rise, having a job is no guarantee of financial safety (again, refer to that article link I posted). I remember when I could get a job and have good coverage at no cost (being single). Those types of jobs are few and far between these days. If you can't afford it look for other alternatives like working for a larger company that can provide insurance or join a group somehow. Luckily I can afford it for now, but this sentiment is exactly why small businesses are having such a hard time these days (among other reasons) and very few people able to be self-employed and truly be safe from bankruptcy. You can be denied individual insurance for pretty much anything and if you do get it, the cost is quite substantial. But the biggest problem is that it's such a huge risk. I really do worry about what is going to happen if anything really serious happens. It could wipe out my life savings, if not worse. It's the main reason I do still do a lot of preventative, diagnostic stuff every year or two, since my reflux does put me at high risk of some types of cancer. There are ways to get coverage but you just want someone else to help you pay. That's what groups are for not the government. Wrong, it has nothing to do with making someone else pay. If I felt confident that what I paid now would protect me in the case of serious illness, I'd be satisfied. It's a lot, but it's still not such a huge part of my income that I couldn't deal with it. The problem is the cost goes up every year, and in the case of something serious happening, the coverage quite simply is not sufficient. We're talking about two people making the same wage and one needs $300 a month worth of meds and the other needs nothing. You want my bill to be higher so yours is lower. Again, you're not getting the picture here. The costs of meds is a totally different issue, it ticks me off that I have to pay so much when people in other countries get the same meds for a reasonable price, not that I think someone else needs to pay for them. But it also frustrates me that people on company plans get decent prescription plans, the same should be available to everyone. Why should company plans have decent prescription plans and individuals not be allowed the same benefit? The same way that I should be able to deduct fully my health insurance premiums before tax the way that corporations can (it gets included when you calculate self-employed tax.) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253945 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
On Feb 11, 2008 7:43 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a big difference between job loss due to medical reasons and eventually ending in bankruptcy...and just losing a job. Not when we're talking about medical insurance. Of course not...the point is that most people simply cannot afford to get sick and handle *those* costs on top of personal bills. Agreed, but what does it have to do with health care? Why? Should you pay less in taxes for your fire or police service if you haven't been robbed or had a fire versus someone that has? Again, there seems to be some blame being put on people here for medical problems, and the vast majority of people have no such control that you seem to be implying. We probably pay the same tax for county hospitals but it might depend on the cost of the house. As for Insurance YES, If you're house gets burgled or burned all the time you need to make some changes for an insurance company to take you on and I don't blame them. Sorry, but it's not so easy for many people. Insurance costs even for the insured continue to rise, having a job is no guarantee of financial safety (again, refer to that article link I posted). I remember when I could get a job and have good coverage at no cost (being single). Those types of jobs are few and far between these days. My point was my dad gave up $40k a year self employment job for $23k because he was getting old and wanted security. Ironically he broke his hip because someone waxed the wrong floor and now can't work. I was trying to say if payments are overwhelming we can make tradeoffs. Luckily I can afford it for now, but this sentiment is exactly why small businesses are having such a hard time these days (among other reasons) and very few people able to be self-employed and truly be safe from bankruptcy. You can be denied individual insurance for pretty much anything and if you do get it, the cost is quite substantial. But the biggest problem is that it's such a huge risk. I really do worry about what is going to happen if anything really serious happens. It could wipe out my life savings, if not worse. It's the main reason I do still do a lot of preventative, diagnostic stuff every year or two, since my reflux does put me at high risk of some types of cancer. How do you feel about mandating that small businesses provide insurance or pay it in taxes? Then there's mandatory child coverage, nice to have but if people are struggling now where's the money going to come from? All of us have to pay one way or another. So the struggle is medical bills or taxes either way we have to pay. Wrong, it has nothing to do with making someone else pay. If I felt confident that what I paid now would protect me in the case of serious illness, I'd be satisfied. It's a lot, but it's still not such a huge part of my income that I couldn't deal with it. The problem is the cost goes up every year, and in the case of something serious happening, the coverage quite simply is not sufficient. My insurance is $600 a month with $1000 deductible per person (that's 3k) a year. It's mainly for catastrophes but they do cover a lot of preventive checkups so it's good. I have a friend whose family plan went up because he didn't visit the doctor enough. Again, you're not getting the picture here. The costs of meds is a totally different issue, it ticks me off that I have to pay so much when people in other countries get the same meds for a reasonable price, not that I think someone else needs to pay for them. But it also frustrates me that people on company plans get decent prescription plans, the same should be available to everyone. Why should company plans have decent prescription plans and individuals not be allowed the same benefit? The same way that I should be able to deduct fully my health insurance premiums before tax the way that corporations can (it gets included when you calculate self-employed tax.) If other countries paid their share we wouldn't have to subsidies the world with our drugs and we'd all pay a fair price. I read years ago contractors were forming an insurance group so they could have the same advantages. It only makes sense that if you take all the people that aren't in groups, group them together, you have the largest group with the biggest influence. Why doesn't that happen? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253948 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I was still new to insurance during Hillcare and assumed it was her threat of socializing the industry that made the HMO's band together and so powerful. Trying to apply a quick fix to head of her plan. I could be wrong of course. Now the complaint from doctors is they can't treat somethings and can't prescribe some meds, and the insurance complaint is fraud. I think both sides are correct. I don't know how to fix it but I'd guess scaring them into grabbing more power or socializing themselves is not the answer. I like Bush's and Gruss's plan that let's people shop there own insurance. On Feb 9, 2008 11:04 AM, Robert Munn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's shameless what goes on in the health care industry. I agree, eventually the system is going to collapse if it isn't completely overhauled, but what is a better alternative? My father-in-law is a retired surgeon who works part-time as a consultant to the insurance industry. His job is to review physician submitted treatments and look for fraud and abuse. It's unbelievable what some doctors try to get away with. I don't have a problem with anyone making a profit, even a big profit, but fraud is unacceptable. On Feb 8, 2008 2:03 AM, Maureen wrote: ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253857 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
The number one cause of bankruptcy is losing your job. My dad drinks a glass of water with baking soda since I can remembe even though his insurance covers the expensive drugs. I'm not sure why you want me to pay for your meds. You pay $400 a month and your meds cost $300 that leaves $1200 a year for all other medical costs. Sounds like an insurance risk. I was never admitted to a hospital and never prescribed anything other than antibiotics. I don't mind subsidizing the poor with my insurance payments but not the people that don't need it. On Feb 8, 2008 4:24 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's even worse than I could ever fathom, and inexcusable. And precisely why someone needs to step in and do something... It's amazing how bad it has gotten so quickly. Health problems are now the number one cause of bankruptcy...and that's among people that *have* health insurance. Costs for the self-insured are rising so fast that more and more can't afford if (if they are even able to get coverage) and if you get sick at all you can expect your premium to shoot up the following year (mine went up by about $400 this year due to one trip to the emergency room last year...my only medical expense last year other than one or two normal wellness visits.) You hear more and more stories of people denied coverage for important tests or treatments, and people that can't afford the medicine due to the overwhelming cost of prescription drugs. I personally suffer with reflux and should be on one of the newer drugs but the cost is about $100/month for me, so make due with Prilosec even though it's no longer effective for me. Likewise my eye doctor would like me to try Restasis for dry eye...that one was $200 for a month supply! I'll make due with eye drops, thank you. These aren't the kinds of sacrifices well-employed, middle-class people should have to make, but we do. The American Dream is rapidly moving out of reach for all but a very few. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253826 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Why should we pay for your cat scratch fever? On Feb 8, 2008 10:06 PM, Dana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to mention that I spent a week in the hospital, after surgery, because a cat scratched me. It happened to have some sort of bizarre flesh-eating bacteria on its claw. The bill for that, had I not had coverage, could have been in the $15,000 range and that does not include tthe surgery and the CAT scan they did because they thought I might be getting a blood clot. There's a random five-figure medical bill for you ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253827 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
It's shameless what goes on in the health care industry. I agree, eventually the system is going to collapse if it isn't completely overhauled, but what is a better alternative? My father-in-law is a retired surgeon who works part-time as a consultant to the insurance industry. His job is to review physician submitted treatments and look for fraud and abuse. It's unbelievable what some doctors try to get away with. I don't have a problem with anyone making a profit, even a big profit, but fraud is unacceptable. On Feb 8, 2008 2:03 AM, Maureen wrote: Here are the major problems with any health care plan. 1. The outrageous profiteering of the insurance industry. 2. The outrageous profiteering of the health care industry 3. The lobbying of congress by said industries to make sure their profit machine does not go away. 4. The level of fraud infesting both industries when dealing with the consumer and with government programs. 5. Any proposed program would create a bureaucracy that would cost more than the health care costs ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253833 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. Hhm, hadn't heard that...certainly industrialized hemp has very low THC, so it is possible to remove it. But THC is the component with the best anti-emetic effects, so not sure removing it is going to be useful in terms of medical use. In fact, there is a drug that is basically synthetic THC on the market for that use, but oral is not considered the best method of delivery for THC, and it's not as effective in general as other drugs, or smoked THC. Of course, smoking has its whole set of issues as well, not the least being difficulty in delivering a consistent dose (as well as being able to do a good, solid double-blind study...it's usually pretty obvious to a patient if they are smoking real marijuana versus just a placebo.) I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I'm sure there are doctors that say that, but it doesn't mean that they are in the majority. You can get find a doctor *somewhere* to testify to just about any position on such a polarizing issue. I'd agree that it probably should be a last resort, and certainly a good deal of patients probably are just looking to abuse it... but it definitely is effective for many patients, and surveys of doctors like oncologists show that at least a reasonably high percentage (50%+) would like to have the option to prescribe it (and many even suggest it knowing it is illegal). Keep in mind as well that while new drugs are always coming on the market and they may indeed be more effective...such new drugs are often very expensive when compared with the relatively low cost of marijuana. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253835 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
As a side note, saw this on Digg about a week ago. It's more fascinating than anything I imagined on my own. Oh, I've heard all kinds of crazy (and not so crazy) theories on why marijuana become illegal. Not the least of which was the goal of getting rid of the whole the hemp industry (by competing industries). It's definitely a very complex issue with an interesting history. And now, there are just as many companies fighting against legalizing it...certainly the paper industry has no interest in seeing legalizes industrial hemp. And the drug companies certainly will do whatever they can to prevent medical marijuana. Why would people buy all their expensive drugs, if there is a cheap and easily home-grown plant they can use instead. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253836 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
From what I understand, it's main uses are as a: Appetite stimulant for those with AIDS and other disorders that kill appetite Anti nausea for chemo patients Anti seizure medication Hemp has a thousand uses in textiles and paper. Yup, those are the main ones, although there are others as well. Hemp oil as well has tons of uses and can be used for many products such as body care items like shampoo and lotion, paint, lubricants, source of omega-36 fatty acids, even for use in plastics. But yes, its use for textiles and paper is an important one, and it's surprising how many people don't know even know about it. But wood pulp production is now so cheap, and getting more environmentally friendly, it would be tough for hemp to replace it, although certainly that would be a good goal, in order to at least slow down deforestation. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253837 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
The logging industry is a major reason for the association between marijuana and hemp, and the major reason that hemp has not taken off as a large scale crop. It's much cheaper to produce paper from hemp, and hemp is renewable on a yearly basis, instead of tens to hundreds of years. If we could produce hemp based paper on a large scale it would put a MAJOR dent in the logging industry. Hemp and marijuana are related plants (so are hops) but their not the same plant as many think. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary From what I understand, it's main uses are as a: Appetite stimulant for those with AIDS and other disorders that kill appetite Anti nausea for chemo patients Anti seizure medication Hemp has a thousand uses in textiles and paper. Yup, those are the main ones, although there are others as well. Hemp oil as well has tons of uses and can be used for many products such as body care items like shampoo and lotion, paint, lubricants, source of omega-36 fatty acids, even for use in plastics. But yes, its use for textiles and paper is an important one, and it's surprising how many people don't know even know about it. But wood pulp production is now so cheap, and getting more environmentally friendly, it would be tough for hemp to replace it, although certainly that would be a good goal, in order to at least slow down deforestation. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253839 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That's because you don't need it. And as for the comment that the medicinal effects can be replicated or surpassed, that's pure BS. Without going into too much personal detail, I will say that over the last year of fighting stomach cancer, and having the docs try everything to relieve the nausea and pain to no avail, I am very glad I live in California. On Feb 7, 2008 10:06 AM, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. I have a soft spot for the wacky too, but medicinal marijuana just doesn't make any sense to me. On Feb 7, 2008 11:58 AM, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253760 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Here are the major problems with any health care plan. 1. The outrageous profiteering of the insurance industry. 2. The outrageous profiteering of the health care industry 3. The lobbying of congress by said industries to make sure their profit machine does not go away. 4. The level of fraud infesting both industries when dealing with the consumer and with government programs. 5. Any proposed program would create a bureaucracy that would cost more than the health care costs Until you fix those, any universal health care program will fail. In fact, if those problems aren't addressed soon, the existing health care system is going to collapse under its own weight. I've spent most of my 30 plus year career writing software and doing management consulting in the insurance and health care industries. Both of them are rotten to the core. Throwing more money at the problem is never going to fix it. It will just fatten the sharks. On Feb 7, 2008 10:18 AM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, 2 questions: How should health care be handled in your view? Do you currently have health benefits where you work? Or does your wife? On 2/7/08, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253744 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That's not what he's proposing is it? Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt. I'm getting from this that the government is adding business payroll tax unless you're business is operating at the poverty level. Isn't this the same as HC's mandatory insurance plan? On Feb 8, 2008 9:10 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldn't this be a place where a state-subsidy plan to help small businesses afford an insurance plan be effective? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253774 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
As for affording it, I'm talking about many jobs going away because business have to provide insurance and smaller shops will have to cut someplace. When I was young and healthy I preferred having a job and a choice rather then no job no choice. Wouldn't this be a place where a state-subsidy plan to help small businesses afford an insurance plan be effective? -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:55 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary Yes a gamble but the odds were in my favor. Except for all my near death experiences skiing, rock climbing and surfing. I always assumed it was all or nothing, dead or still walking. As for affording it, I'm talking about many jobs going away because business have to provide insurance and smaller shops will have to cut someplace. When I was young and healthy I preferred having a job and a choice rather then no job no choice. On Feb 7, 2008 6:47 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I know quite a few people under the age of 35 who had serious injuries, illnesses, surgeries etc. Age has nothing to do with the need for insurance in this day and age. Gone are the days that a doctor or a hospital will take a hen or a basket of eggs in exchange for services. So the statement: People don't need or want it, is simply a risk taker gambling. I gamble every single day myself. But if I could afford it, I'd pay it in a heartbeat. Soon, soon. Business is getting better :) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253773 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I dunno, It just seemed like a reasonable solution. I'd like to see a state level pool to help businesses afford to provide health insurance. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:21 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary That's not what he's proposing is it? Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt. I'm getting from this that the government is adding business payroll tax unless you're business is operating at the poverty level. Isn't this the same as HC's mandatory insurance plan? On Feb 8, 2008 9:10 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldn't this be a place where a state-subsidy plan to help small businesses afford an insurance plan be effective? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253777 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Yes a gamble but the odds were in my favor. Except for all my near death experiences skiing, rock climbing and surfing. I always assumed it was all or nothing, dead or still walking. As for affording it, I'm talking about many jobs going away because business have to provide insurance and smaller shops will have to cut someplace. When I was young and healthy I preferred having a job and a choice rather then no job no choice. On Feb 7, 2008 6:47 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I know quite a few people under the age of 35 who had serious injuries, illnesses, surgeries etc. Age has nothing to do with the need for insurance in this day and age. Gone are the days that a doctor or a hospital will take a hen or a basket of eggs in exchange for services. So the statement: People don't need or want it, is simply a risk taker gambling. I gamble every single day myself. But if I could afford it, I'd pay it in a heartbeat. Soon, soon. Business is getting better :) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253769 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That's different and could be good. I guess I could read his document but I was hoping someone else would, like maybe a die hard supporter :) I still prefer Bush's plan but would like to know more about the Hilbama plans. On Feb 8, 2008 9:25 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dunno, It just seemed like a reasonable solution. I'd like to see a state level pool to help businesses afford to provide health insurance. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253779 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Really? I had never heard a (credible) personal testimonial that marijuana was the BEST solution for any particular ailment. On Feb 8, 2008 3:54 AM, Maureen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's because you don't need it. And as for the comment that the medicinal effects can be replicated or surpassed, that's pure BS. Without going into too much personal detail, I will say that over the last year of fighting stomach cancer, and having the docs try everything to relieve the nausea and pain to no avail, I am very glad I live in California. On Feb 7, 2008 10:06 AM, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. I have a soft spot for the wacky too, but medicinal marijuana just doesn't make any sense to me. On Feb 7, 2008 11:58 AM, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253767 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. Another somewhat related issue is industrial hemp...a crop that could do a great deal to help farmers and our struggling economy. We're the only industrial nation that does not produce hemp, and it's time for that to be corrected. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253787 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
As a side note, saw this on Digg about a week ago. It's more fascinating than anything I imagined on my own. http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html - Original Message - From: G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Community cf-community@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary On Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I guess I'm up in the air after listening to you and Maureen... ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253791 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
it helps with RLS, i can say that for shizzle. tw On Feb 8, 2008 3:43 PM, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I guess I'm up in the air after listening to you and Maureen... -- It was dark all around There was frost on the ground When the Tigers broke free ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253790 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
On Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I guess I'm up in the air after listening to you and Maureen... -- It was dark all around There was frost on the ground When the Tigers broke free ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253789 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
this is 100% absurd. i hope that we could have used hemp all along for fuel, etc, and the idiots who run our government find out that their moronic asses COULDA used it all along etc etc etc, i will laugh, for sure. tw On Feb 8, 2008 3:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another somewhat related issue is industrial hemp...a crop that could do a great deal to help farmers and our struggling economy. We're the only industrial nation that does not produce hemp, and it's time for that to be corrected. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253788 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
There is a first time for everything.and this is the first time i'm in 100% agreement with Maureen. Exactly right on all counts. On Feb 8, 2008 4:03 AM, Maureen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are the major problems with any health care plan. 1. The outrageous profiteering of the insurance industry. 2. The outrageous profiteering of the health care industry 3. The lobbying of congress by said industries to make sure their profit machine does not go away. 4. The level of fraud infesting both industries when dealing with the consumer and with government programs. 5. Any proposed program would create a bureaucracy that would cost more than the health care costs Until you fix those, any universal health care program will fail. In fact, if those problems aren't addressed soon, the existing health care system is going to collapse under its own weight. I've spent most of my 30 plus year career writing software and doing management consulting in the insurance and health care industries. Both of them are rotten to the core. Throwing more money at the problem is never going to fix it. It will just fatten the sharks. On Feb 7, 2008 10:18 AM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, 2 questions: How should health care be handled in your view? Do you currently have health benefits where you work? Or does your wife? On 2/7/08, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253757 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
From what I understand, it's main uses are as a: Appetite stimulant for those with AIDS and other disorders that kill appetite Anti nausea for chemo patients Anti seizure medication Hemp has a thousand uses in textiles and paper. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Ben Doom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:14 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary My mom admits to wishing she'd scored some when she was in chemo. None of the available anti-nausea drugs helped, but marijuana is supposed to be amazing for that. For the record: Mom barely drinks (half a glass of wine, 3 nights a week when she's on a tear), rarely uses anything but her anti-cancer drugs, tylenol, and zinc for colds, and doesn't smoke. --Doom G Money wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I guess I'm up in the air after listening to you and Maureen... ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253793 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
My mom admits to wishing she'd scored some when she was in chemo. None of the available anti-nausea drugs helped, but marijuana is supposed to be amazing for that. For the record: Mom barely drinks (half a glass of wine, 3 nights a week when she's on a tear), rarely uses anything but her anti-cancer drugs, tylenol, and zinc for colds, and doesn't smoke. --Doom G Money wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hhm, not so sure about that...it's one of the most effective anti-emetics and thus very useful in pain treatment of people particularly with end-stage disease. I have chronic pain issues, and I can tell you it's a frustrating situation when you have a choice between suffering with the pain or taking pain meds that you know will make you sick to your stomach or have severe cramps, etc. I've never tried marijuana (nor would I be likely to) but I do understand people wanting the option to use it when nothing else works. They just need to regulate the use of it better...which frankly goes for all narcotics...way too easy to abuse any of them, get scripts from multiple doctors, etc. That is what Maureen is saying as well. I had heard at one point they had engineered some marijuana that retained many of the medicinal qualities of the plant, without the THC high. I had read several doctor's reports where they suggested that other medicines were preferred to marijuana in just about every instance. They seemed to suggest patients who said otherwise were at least partly interested in the other affects of marijuana. I guess I'm up in the air after listening to you and Maureen... ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253792 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Those in favor of legalizing marijuana for medical use would be smart to stop using the street name for the drug. Language is very powerful in shaping opinions. -Original Message- From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:55 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary That's because you don't need it. And as for the comment that the medicinal effects can be replicated or surpassed, that's pure BS. Without going into too much personal detail, I will say that over the last year of fighting stomach cancer, and having the docs try everything to relieve the nausea and pain to no avail, I am very glad I live in California. On Feb 7, 2008 10:06 AM, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. I have a soft spot for the wacky too, but medicinal marijuana just doesn't make any sense to me. On Feb 7, 2008 11:58 AM, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253762 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That's even worse than I could ever fathom, and inexcusable. And precisely why someone needs to step in and do something... It's amazing how bad it has gotten so quickly. Health problems are now the number one cause of bankruptcy...and that's among people that *have* health insurance. Costs for the self-insured are rising so fast that more and more can't afford if (if they are even able to get coverage) and if you get sick at all you can expect your premium to shoot up the following year (mine went up by about $400 this year due to one trip to the emergency room last year...my only medical expense last year other than one or two normal wellness visits.) You hear more and more stories of people denied coverage for important tests or treatments, and people that can't afford the medicine due to the overwhelming cost of prescription drugs. I personally suffer with reflux and should be on one of the newer drugs but the cost is about $100/month for me, so make due with Prilosec even though it's no longer effective for me. Likewise my eye doctor would like me to try Restasis for dry eye...that one was $200 for a month supply! I'll make due with eye drops, thank you. These aren't the kinds of sacrifices well-employed, middle-class people should have to make, but we do. The American Dream is rapidly moving out of reach for all but a very few. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253795 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
and those of us that think it's gay that pot is taboo but booze and smokes are fine? Billy Cox wrote: Those in favor of legalizing marijuana for medical use would be smart to stop using the street name for the drug. Language is very powerful in shaping opinions. -Original Message- From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:55 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary That's because you don't need it. And as for the comment that the medicinal effects can be replicated or surpassed, that's pure BS. Without going into too much personal detail, I will say that over the last year of fighting stomach cancer, and having the docs try everything to relieve the nausea and pain to no avail, I am very glad I live in California. On Feb 7, 2008 10:06 AM, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. I have a soft spot for the wacky too, but medicinal marijuana just doesn't make any sense to me. On Feb 7, 2008 11:58 AM, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253807 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
did some one say gay pot is fine? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253808 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
no morchella wrote: did some one say gay pot is fine? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253809 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I'd like to mention that I spent a week in the hospital, after surgery, because a cat scratched me. It happened to have some sort of bizarre flesh-eating bacteria on its claw. The bill for that, had I not had coverage, could have been in the $15,000 range and that does not include tthe surgery and the CAT scan they did because they thought I might be getting a blood clot. There's a random five-figure medical bill for you On Feb 7, 2008 7:47 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I know quite a few people under the age of 35 who had serious injuries, illnesses, surgeries etc. Age has nothing to do with the need for insurance in this day and age. Gone are the days that a doctor or a hospital will take a hen or a basket of eggs in exchange for services. So the statement: People don't need or want it, is simply a risk taker gambling. I gamble every single day myself. But if I could afford it, I'd pay it in a heartbeat. Soon, soon. Business is getting better :) On 2/7/08, Sam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never had insurance until I was 35. Same goes for many people I know. It would have sucked if I needed it but decided to take the risk. On Feb 7, 2008 3:15 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So they are rich enough to pay for any medical expenses out of their own pocketes? Including cancer care or major illnesses or catastrophic events like accidentally cutting off an arm or breaking a major bone or two? I'm talking about care that runs in the thousands and thousands. Not an annual physical or an ocassional run to the doctor for the flu or a sore throat. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253810 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I take Nexium, yeah, it is about $180 for a month's supply, and that is at WalMart. With coverage, I am still paying 30, which I cough up because the consequences of not taking it scare me. On Feb 8, 2008 5:24 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's even worse than I could ever fathom, and inexcusable. And precisely why someone needs to step in and do something... It's amazing how bad it has gotten so quickly. Health problems are now the number one cause of bankruptcy...and that's among people that *have* health insurance. Costs for the self-insured are rising so fast that more and more can't afford if (if they are even able to get coverage) and if you get sick at all you can expect your premium to shoot up the following year (mine went up by about $400 this year due to one trip to the emergency room last year...my only medical expense last year other than one or two normal wellness visits.) You hear more and more stories of people denied coverage for important tests or treatments, and people that can't afford the medicine due to the overwhelming cost of prescription drugs. I personally suffer with reflux and should be on one of the newer drugs but the cost is about $100/month for me, so make due with Prilosec even though it's no longer effective for me. Likewise my eye doctor would like me to try Restasis for dry eye...that one was $200 for a month supply! I'll make due with eye drops, thank you. These aren't the kinds of sacrifices well-employed, middle-class people should have to make, but we do. The American Dream is rapidly moving out of reach for all but a very few. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253811 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I want to see things actually get done. Hillary has too much baggage with the GOP to be an effective president. It's unfortunate... Exactly. -- will If my life weren't funny, it would just be true; and that would just be unacceptable. - Carrie Fisher ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253674 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
see Obama is rather tall and skinny, he is also a male. on the other hand Hillary is a little shorter and rounder, she also has dyed hair.. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253688 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Two other differences that stick out to me: 1) The war on terror and Iraq. Hillary seems more willing to be pro-active and commit US military forces to the fight. 2) Charisma. Obama has a lot of it.Hillary does not have near the charisma that her hubby has. Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. On Feb 7, 2008 11:25 AM, Shawna Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're pretty correct in the sense that they are similar on most things. The biggest difference for me (strictly speaking on issues) is each candidate's take on universal health care. Hillary wants mandated health care. You would be required to get health insurance, like you are required to get auto insurance, whether you need it, want it or can afford it. Obama will create a national health plan similar to the plan enjoyed by members of Congress, making insurance available to and affordable for everyone, but won't require people to get it (except he does want to require health coverage for children). Here's a good FAQ about Obama's plan: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf -Original Message- From: Erika L. Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:01 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Differences between Obama and Hillary Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253678 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. Obama's at least isn't mandatory. And I like that. I don't think that government should mandate health care, but it doesn't seem that the Medical and insurance industries are interested in keeping healthcare affordable.. -- will If my life weren't funny, it would just be true; and that would just be unacceptable. - Carrie Fisher ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253696 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Just curious, 2 questions: How should health care be handled in your view? Do you currently have health benefits where you work? Or does your wife? On 2/7/08, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253689 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I cannot quite articulate why Hillary Clinton bugs me so much, but she does. So much so that the latest McCain news has me breathing easier. Even if Hillary is selected by the Democrats, I have someone else I can vote for. I've never mentioned my voting intentions pre-election before, since it may change right up to vote day, but here is where my thinking is now. An Obama-McCain matchup is still not 100% defined in my mind. Leaning towards Obama, but still on the fence. Clinton-McCain is a no brainer. McCain. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253702 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
One more difference between the two candidates, as illustrated here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/7/101110/2068/766/451817 There's been a lot of excitement on DailyKos about the Obama movement, coupled with some detractors out there saying Obama is all style and no substance. My response to that is to look at ethics reform, an issue no one should scoff at as corruption was the #1 reason Congress changed hands in 2006. It just so happens that Barack Obama played a big role in getting ethics reform done. Not only that, I would like to focus on some key votes which show like night and day, the difference between Obama and Clinton. Obama had to log some courageous votes that amounted to rebellion against the Democratic leadership -- Reid and Durbin -- while Hillary Clinton chose not to rock the boat. -Original Message- From: William Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:49 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary Since Shawna did a good job of simplifying where Obama and Hillary differ on the (awful) idea of universal health care, let me just say that I hate Hillary's plan even more than Obama's. Obama's at least isn't mandatory. And I like that. I don't think that government should mandate health care, but it doesn't seem that the Medical and insurance industries are interested in keeping healthcare affordable.. -- will If my life weren't funny, it would just be true; and that would just be unacceptable. - Carrie Fisher ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253701 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
On Feb 7, 2008 12:18 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How should health care be handled in your view? I don't really know. That is such an enormous question. What I DO know is that: 1) Health insurance is a scam 2) The government never makes things better 3) Competition is usually the best way to make things affordable Universal health care encapsulates the first two, and eliminates the last oneyikes. Do you currently have health benefits where you work? Or does your wife? Yes. Every paycheck, a chunk of my money is paid out to health insurance. That money goes into a big old pot of money that is salivated over by the insurance companies and the health care providers. They look at this big old pot of money, and decide how much of it they can get, and how they are going to split it up. The medical provider then charges 10X what he might otherwise charge, and the health insurance covers about 60% of that. Then they send me the paper work. Here's the result: 1) Medical provider charged 10x what he would otherwise charged, and made 6x what he would have otherwise made 2) Insurance company paid out the agreed upon amount to the doctor, which ensured that they would clear a hefty profit (whatever margin they decided they could gain from the big ole pot of money) 3) I am sent a bill with a RIDICULOUS price quoted by my doctor. Then I see that my insurance company paid 60% of it...and that silly doctor accepted it Wow!!! I can't believe I saved that much money!!! Hooray insurance!!! Rich doctor, rich insurance company, oblivious customerbent over backwards and butt rapedand none the wiser. -- It was dark all around There was frost on the ground When the Tigers broke free ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253718 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I'm afraid that McCain will continue to abandon his centrist stance in order to get the GOP nod. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:17 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary I cannot quite articulate why Hillary Clinton bugs me so much, but she does. So much so that the latest McCain news has me breathing easier. Even if Hillary is selected by the Democrats, I have someone else I can vote for. I've never mentioned my voting intentions pre-election before, since it may change right up to vote day, but here is where my thinking is now. An Obama-McCain matchup is still not 100% defined in my mind. Leaning towards Obama, but still on the fence. Clinton-McCain is a no brainer. McCain. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253709 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw On Feb 7, 2008 12:30 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One difference is that Hillary is much more polarizing, she's been in the GOP's crosshairs since she became a senator. I fear that a Hillary presidency will unleash a lot of the same stonewalling and issue distraction that Bill's presidency did. I want to see things actually get done. Hillary has too much baggage with the GOP to be an effective president. It's unfortunate... -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Erika L. Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:01 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Differences between Obama and Hillary Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253677 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
One difference is that Hillary is much more polarizing, she's been in the GOP's crosshairs since she became a senator. I fear that a Hillary presidency will unleash a lot of the same stonewalling and issue distraction that Bill's presidency did. I want to see things actually get done. Hillary has too much baggage with the GOP to be an effective president. It's unfortunate... -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Erika L. Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:01 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Differences between Obama and Hillary Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253663 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
You're pretty correct in the sense that they are similar on most things. The biggest difference for me (strictly speaking on issues) is each candidate's take on universal health care. Hillary wants mandated health care. You would be required to get health insurance, like you are required to get auto insurance, whether you need it, want it or can afford it. Obama will create a national health plan similar to the plan enjoyed by members of Congress, making insurance available to and affordable for everyone, but won't require people to get it (except he does want to require health coverage for children). Here's a good FAQ about Obama's plan: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf -Original Message- From: Erika L. Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:01 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Differences between Obama and Hillary Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253661 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
one of them has to drop their ego and allow the other to be top dog... and i dont think we will see that until the primaries shake themselves out a bit more... looks like maryland is going to be a nice little battleground state and there have been whispers of an obama appearance 30 miles from me... sunday afternoon... im going to go, but will leave if he aint comin' tw On Feb 7, 2008 12:00 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253656 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Differences between Obama and Hillary
Felt this warranted a different thread so those of you who know more than me can educate me. I was looking over the bullet point list of issues for Obama and Hillary. To me, both of them, are really alike on most issues. There's obviously a few small points here and there that they differ, like perhaps where money might come from to fund certain programs, like healthcare, but overall I find them pretty similar in thinking. Again, is this my naivete on not really understanding some of the political jargon or is this really the case? IMO, I would like Hillary to get the nod, but I'm just as ecstactic for Obama to get the nod. I just want a change in goverment and a change for this country. I would think an O/H or H/O ticket might be pretty interesting, because if it is public support that will get things done, how does it get any better than that? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253653 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
What's the impetus for medical marijuana? Very few doctors prescribe it, because it's medicinal affects are easily replicated and surpassed with other drugs that don't have any of the negative side affects. I have a soft spot for the wacky too, but medicinal marijuana just doesn't make any sense to me. On Feb 7, 2008 11:58 AM, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: barack is at least on the fence for med marijuana and states rights. thats a plus. states rights! tw -- It was dark all around There was frost on the ground When the Tigers broke free ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253680 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
On Feb 7, 2008 2:43 PM, G Money wrote: I don't really know. That is such an enormous question. What I DO know is that: 1) Health insurance is a scam 2) The government never makes things better 3) Competition is usually the best way to make things affordable Universal health care encapsulates the first two, and eliminates the last oneyikes. I'm no expert, certainly, but my layperson's perusal of Obama's plan hardly meets with that definition of Universal health care. If I read it right, his plan would actually increase competition by allowing everyone the choice of their employer's coverage, or the equivalent of federal employee's coverage. If your employer's offered coverage is too expensive for too little coverage, and the fed plan is better, pick the fed plan. The idea is to drive down those prices by increasing availability and options. Will it work? I don't know. It sounds like a good start, at least. The tax deduction and tax credit plans I've seen from other candidates don't exactly sound better, except that they play on the claim to reduce taxes. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253722 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Agreed, doctor's, pharmaceutical companies and the government make affordable healthcare almost a fairytale dream. But: we all need healthcare. And the system, being what it is and has been for too many years, isn't going to change in the immediate future. It is sad that it seems like a total scam. However, anger over the process doesn't make for a good discussion. A scenario if I may. I know for a fact that a colonoscopy, which everyone over the age of 50, and probably some before that, typically costs between $5,000 and $8,000, more if biopsy's and cycts need to be removed. I don't care if it's inflated or not, that's what it typically costs. Your average, middle income 51 year-old-man, getting by, pay check to pay check, without health insurance because either his job doesn't offer it, or he's self employed, or whatever reason exists for him to NOT have health insurance, cannot afford a $5-8,000 scope to ensure he doesn't have cancer. Said man celebrates his 56th birthday, same financial situation, same health care scenario, suddenly gets ill. Ignores it for awhile until pain is so severe he can no longer not go to the emergency room. Fast forward to a week later, he's been diagnosed with colon cancer. Colon cancer his doc says, that could of been stopped if he'd had it checked 5 years ago. Like it or not, this happens EVERY DAY, EVERY WHERE, whether it's colon cancer, liver cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer or any other cancer or disease that caught early enough, could of either been prevented or at least treated and put into remission, etc. EVERY DAY, EVERY WHERE, there are people who simply cannot afford what you get to take for granted and be angry over. They cannot afford to be able to even get a cute little bill, distorted and inflated and disected by insurance companies and doctors. There's people wishing they could be in your shoes to get butt raped, because at least when they broke a bone, instead of an emergency room visit and subsequent doctor's visit running in the $1,000's, they could at least have a somewhat manageable copay, or deductible, etc. You're living in Utopia if you think that the insurance companies will lay down that segment of the business, and say to all the docotrs, you're on your own. Get real. I'm all for anyone's solution to this problem that will work, and by god, if a president or congress needs to get involved in at least this, then I hope they help, because i'm telling you now, the greed of pharmaceutical companies and the greed of doctors and the greed of insurance companies will NEVER EVER EVER abate enough for the private sector to come up with a solution. And yes, as someone who is self-employed and only BARELY getting by right now, *I* cannot afford proper healthcare. I barely maintain my thyroid treatment. I can't even go to a dentist. Even signing up for an Dental HMO, at $25 a month (very affordable), I need over $3,000 worth of dental work because a filling cracked between two teeth, and they want to pull both of them out and give me a root canal and a then a crown. Damn right this country needs to do SOMETHING to fix healthcare. I don't know what either, I'm not smart enough to come up with a plan. That's why I'm not running for president. On 2/7/08, G Money [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 7, 2008 12:18 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How should health care be handled in your view? I don't really know. That is such an enormous question. What I DO know is that: 1) Health insurance is a scam 2) The government never makes things better 3) Competition is usually the best way to make things affordable Universal health care encapsulates the first two, and eliminates the last oneyikes. Do you currently have health benefits where you work? Or does your wife? Rich doctor, rich insurance company, oblivious customerbent over backwards and butt rapedand none the wiser. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253724 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
What do you like about it. I read mandatory care for children, policed by the schools. Employer mandatory coverage. Will a small company have to choose between three employees with coverage or four without? I'm not sure the president should make that decision. I know plenty of people that don't need or want insurance. On Feb 7, 2008 1:57 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to see things actually get done. Hillary has too much baggage with the GOP to be an effective president. It's unfortunate... Yup, that's exactly why many of us are supporting Obama instead. And I do think that for those of us that desperately want and need some kind of universal health care, his plan seems more reasonable and likely to make it past Congress. --- Mary Jo ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253730 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I want to see things actually get done. Hillary has too much baggage with the GOP to be an effective president. It's unfortunate... Yup, that's exactly why many of us are supporting Obama instead. And I do think that for those of us that desperately want and need some kind of universal health care, his plan seems more reasonable and likely to make it past Congress. --- Mary Jo ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253729 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
That's even worse than I could ever fathom, and inexcusable. And precisely why someone needs to step in and do something... On 2/7/08, Shawna Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that's for EMPLOYEES of UHC. How f'ed up is THAT? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253728 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
So they are rich enough to pay for any medical expenses out of their own pocketes? Including cancer care or major illnesses or catastrophic events like accidentally cutting off an arm or breaking a major bone or two? I'm talking about care that runs in the thousands and thousands. Not an annual physical or an ocassional run to the doctor for the flu or a sore throat. .. On 2/7/08, Sam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know plenty of people that don't need or want insurance. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253731 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
RE: Differences between Obama and Hillary
And yes, as someone who is self-employed and only BARELY getting by right now, *I* cannot afford proper healthcare. I barely maintain my thyroid treatment. I can't even go to a dentist. Even signing up for an Dental HMO, at $25 a month (very affordable), I need over $3,000 worth of dental work because a filling cracked between two teeth, and they want to pull both of them out and give me a root canal and a then a crown. Damn right this country needs to do SOMETHING to fix healthcare. I don't know what either, I'm not smart enough to come up with a plan. That's why I'm not running for president. Erika, I hear you loud and clear ... my husband WORKS for a division of United HealthCare and because my prescriptions for my allergies and asthma are so ridiculously expensive, we can either pay for those or pay for preventive care (but not both), and god help us if we should have an emergency room visit or need extensive care for some reason. Every year our benefits have decreased and our deductibles/premiums have increased. He's worked there 5 years and we pay about 40% more than we did when he started. And that's for EMPLOYEES of UHC. How f'ed up is THAT? -Original Message- From: Erika L. Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:12 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary Agreed, doctor's, pharmaceutical companies and the government make affordable healthcare almost a fairytale dream. But: we all need healthcare. And the system, being what it is and has been ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253726 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Hold on now... The congress changed hands because of Republican corruption, so Obama voted WITH the Republicans on the ethics bill. So the only good thing you've listed so far is his supporting the GOP while he's running on CHANGE. On Feb 7, 2008 11:08 AM, Shawna Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One more difference between the two candidates, as illustrated here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/7/101110/2068/766/451817 There's been a lot of excitement on DailyKos about the Obama movement, coupled with some detractors out there saying Obama is all style and no substance. My response to that is to look at ethics reform, an issue no one should scoff at as corruption was the #1 reason Congress changed hands in 2006. It just so happens that Barack Obama played a big role in getting ethics reform done. Not only that, I would like to focus on some key votes which show like night and day, the difference between Obama and Clinton. Obama had to log some courageous votes that amounted to rebellion against the Democratic leadership -- Reid and Durbin -- while Hillary Clinton chose not to rock the boat. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253725 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
I never had insurance until I was 35. Same goes for many people I know. It would have sucked if I needed it but decided to take the risk. On Feb 7, 2008 3:15 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So they are rich enough to pay for any medical expenses out of their own pocketes? Including cancer care or major illnesses or catastrophic events like accidentally cutting off an arm or breaking a major bone or two? I'm talking about care that runs in the thousands and thousands. Not an annual physical or an ocassional run to the doctor for the flu or a sore throat. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253738 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
And I know quite a few people under the age of 35 who had serious injuries, illnesses, surgeries etc. Age has nothing to do with the need for insurance in this day and age. Gone are the days that a doctor or a hospital will take a hen or a basket of eggs in exchange for services. So the statement: People don't need or want it, is simply a risk taker gambling. I gamble every single day myself. But if I could afford it, I'd pay it in a heartbeat. Soon, soon. Business is getting better :) On 2/7/08, Sam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never had insurance until I was 35. Same goes for many people I know. It would have sucked if I needed it but decided to take the risk. On Feb 7, 2008 3:15 PM, Erika L. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So they are rich enough to pay for any medical expenses out of their own pocketes? Including cancer care or major illnesses or catastrophic events like accidentally cutting off an arm or breaking a major bone or two? I'm talking about care that runs in the thousands and thousands. Not an annual physical or an ocassional run to the doctor for the flu or a sore throat. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253739 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
Re: Differences between Obama and Hillary
Same here. Since I took a job in the public sector, I cannot afford insurance. Fortunately I don't get sick and I have not had any serious injuries. Especially since I rock climb and I ride my quad pretty hard. Luckily the only accidents I had on the quad were at Glamis in the nice soft sand, otherwise I would be up shit creek. Hopefully my luck will hold out until I get back into the Army in a month or so where I get free medical and dental. Bruce On 2/7/08, Sam wrote: I never had insurance until I was 35. Same goes for many people I know. It would have sucked if I needed it but decided to take the risk. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:253741 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
